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(TruthDig)   The Last Letter: A Message to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney From a Dying Veteran   (truthdig.com) divider line 884
    More: Hero, George W. Bush, Sadr, selfishness, Iraq War, veterans  
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27232 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2013 at 12:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-20 02:50:35 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-20 02:51:13 AM

Danger Avoid Death: Alphax: I'm not sure why a military response was felt to be appropriate after 9/11.. though it's what bin Laden wanted to happen.  Even during 9/11, it seemed like the work of a James Bond villain.  So, send in the superspies, right?

No. Send in the Bond Girls. Nothing drives religious nutjobs of any and every creed more bonkers than boobies.


Perhaps Xenia Onatopp could have squeezed bin Laden to death between her thighs..
 
2013-03-20 02:52:23 AM
kombi

pls reference the ellsberg papers from the nixon era
ellsberg offered the observation that some secrets dont get out and will not get out unless there is an inside struggle

example the "secret bombings of cambodia"
really now - the cambodians knew and the viet namese knew so the chinese and russians knew
so most of the world knew of it, but not the people paying for it

wiki - An official four years earlier than previously believed.

so yes secrets can be kept
at least in this case to the point that no one cares
 
2013-03-20 02:52:48 AM

kombi: Corn_Fed: kombi: Alphax: kombi: Alphax: kombi: SO when British Intelligence told us about the WMD's. Gee Syria just launched chemical weapons today. And when these fake WMD's where shipped to the US via canada for destruction in the middle of the night. That was all faked? Listen the intelligence may not have been 100% but it still worked. Anyway we put Saddam in there, WE needed to remove him

Not sure if sane.

How? Very sane. You?

I wasn't asking you if you were sane.. you're not the one to make that determination.

Who then You? Im not some conspiracy theories . Look it up. Happened 5-6 years ago. In the middle of the night. Was on the news live. They had to move them thru Canada so they could try to sneak them in. Something about if it went to US port they would have to file a bunch of environmental studies or something. I actually dont think you can really have a conspiracy any more due to the internet.

Citation, please.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/us_did_find_iraq_wmd_AYiL gN bw7pDf7AZ3RO9qnM
http://www.bloggernews.net/116579  Will try to find better link
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-07/us/iraq.uranium_1_yellowcake-uran iu m-cameco?_s=PM:US

Ok was 2008 and I got part of the story wrong. They processed it and shipped it to US


Yeah, that's the stuff that was already known about, tagged, and sealed by UNSCOM in the 90's.
 
2013-03-20 02:55:11 AM

Confabulat: Every American who supported that nonsense war and fell for their bullshiat, when it was plenty obvious even at the time there were major holes in their story, needs to apologize.

I farkin' stood out in the rain with an anti-war sign in traffic. I never do shiat like that but I knew bullshiat when I saw it.

What was your excuse?


I marched in Washington with a bunch of other people.
 
2013-03-20 02:55:19 AM
 
2013-03-20 02:55:55 AM

log_jammin: He still has to(and did) fulfill his obligations, but he can choose to support one, both or none.


Well, OK.  I just didn't see Americans take a particularly nuanced approach to war.  It's either "You support war, or you don't."

All the wars.

Japan attacked us, and so we went after Hitler.  We were seen as heroes.

Some mujahideen attacked us, and so we went after Saddam.  Not so much.

But in any case, you rile up the American people, and it doesn't matter the target.

So, maybe he was descriminate when he knee-jerk joined the military.  But, if he was typical, he was pro-war when he signed up, not just pro-war in Afganistan.
 
2013-03-20 02:55:59 AM

bindlestiff2600: kombi

pls reference the ellsberg papers from the nixon era
ellsberg offered the observation that some secrets dont get out and will not get out unless there is an inside struggle

example the "secret bombings of cambodia"
really now - the cambodians knew and the viet namese knew so the chinese and russians knew
so most of the world knew of it, but not the people paying for it

wiki - An official four years earlier than previously believed.

so yes secrets can be kept
at least in this case to the point that no one cares


Dont think so. Not now with our connected world. Even when a country cuts internet feeds it still comes out. Now during Nixon that was a different world than the one we live in now.
 
2013-03-20 02:56:25 AM

Alphax: Danger Avoid Death: Alphax: I'm not sure why a military response was felt to be appropriate after 9/11.. though it's what bin Laden wanted to happen.  Even during 9/11, it seemed like the work of a James Bond villain.  So, send in the superspies, right?

No. Send in the Bond Girls. Nothing drives religious nutjobs of any and every creed more bonkers than boobies.

Perhaps Xenia Onatopp could have squeezed bin Laden to death between her thighs..


Not a bad way to go, really.
 
2013-03-20 02:56:44 AM

Dahnkster: [i.imgur.com image 500x338]


blogs-images.forbes.com
YES
 
2013-03-20 02:57:41 AM
COWARD.....NO MORE, NO LESS          QUIT YOUR WHINING
 
2013-03-20 02:59:38 AM

kombi: Dont think so. Not now with our connected world. Even when a country cuts internet feeds it still comes out. Now during Nixon that was a different world than the one we live in now.


Yeah. We weren't involved in any senseless wars we started for spurious reasons.
Oh... wait ...
Nevermind.
 
2013-03-20 03:02:56 AM

Procedural Texture: Since WW2, the United States of America have slaughtered more civilians than were killed in the holocaust. fark the USA.


Yeah...that smells like bullshiat. Got a citation for that?

It's not that I don't doubt that America has done some truly horrible things, or that sheer casualty counts create some kind of relative morality-- I just don't see any reason to exaggerate them.
 
2013-03-20 03:04:32 AM
where is his protest letter from before he was wounded?
 
2013-03-20 03:05:41 AM

Danger Avoid Death: kombi: Dont think so. Not now with our connected world. Even when a country cuts internet feeds it still comes out. Now during Nixon that was a different world than the one we live in now.

Yeah. We weren't involved in any senseless wars we started for spurious reasons.
Oh... wait ...
Nevermind.


? Never said that. My great grand farther was shot down over Russia during the "Cold War" A Air Japan (I think) was shot down over Russia because the thought it was a disguised US aircraft. I thought that was just a cold war. No shots fired At least thats what we have been told. And really all war is senseless but sometimes it just needs to be done.
 
2013-03-20 03:05:42 AM

stonelotus: where is his protest letter from before he was wounded?


Blown up, sir.
 
2013-03-20 03:05:56 AM

sendtodave: Japan attacked us, and so we went after Hitler. We were seen as heroes.

Some mujahideen attacked us, and so we went after Saddam. Not so much.

But in any case, you rile up the American people, and it doesn't matter the target.

So, maybe he was descriminate when he knee-jerk joined the military. But, if he was typical, he was pro-war when he signed up, not just pro-war in Afganistan.


Japan attacked us, then Germany declared war in us. It's not even remotely comparable.

As for him being "pro-war" in general, that's one big ass assumption about him, and everyone else who has ever been in the military. It's not only possible, but reasonable, to support the war in Afghanistan and not Iraq.
 
2013-03-20 03:09:45 AM
10 years ago today I graduated from basic training. I was in Iraq 6 months later. I was against the war but that didn't matter, I signed up and accept responsibility for my actions. Now I need my country to be responsible for its actions. I'm talking about the VA disability backlog. These men and women have fought for ten years straight and now they are fighting for disability benefits . Almost a million vets are waiting on average of 300 days to receive benefits to help with the injuries they have. It's our obligation to care for these people and we are dropping the ball. IAVA (Iraq Afghanistan Vets of America) has a petition to try and get the backlog eliminated. Sign it. Donate time or money. Whether you agreed with the war or not doesn't matter, we have an obligation to care for these people and it's not getting done. FARK does some really good things and I'd love to see this community take up this fight. If we can raise money to buy Joe Biden car, we should be able to do something.We can disagree about everything under the sun but we should be able to agree that no injured veteran should have to wait upwards of a year for help./help us Fark/can't post links but you can find them/sorry about the wall of text phone no likey fark
 
2013-03-20 03:12:49 AM

kombi: Oh and this BS with if you supported the war. Your an idiot, Stupid, Dont think for your self. on and on and on. And if you where opposed to the war you are smart and forward thinking. Thats whats destroying this country. You could talk disagree and move on. Now if you disagree well you live in flyover country anyway so you dont matter. or well your a gun owner so you automatically are dumb and your opinion does not matter. Only the coast matter. We will tell you whats best. Cant we all just get along?


Except, you know, people don't actually say that.  Or rather, liberals don't say that.  Conservatives SAY that liberals say it, but that's mainly paranoid projection.
 
2013-03-20 03:13:06 AM

lolpix: brukmann:  Exactly. You're describing a normal POTUS vs. war criminals. There is no real comparison. Not that it's apples to oranges, that it's 1000:1 on the bullshiat scale. But thanks for insulting me by suggesting i'm a starry-eyed moron. Which, btw, i have found in exactly zero Obama supporters, as it is another right-wing fantasy.

If that's a normal President, we're an inherently evil nation. Most of the rest of what you just said is kind of garbled.


All nations are inherently evil. And most believe that they're the best country on earth. Ours is no different.
 
2013-03-20 03:14:03 AM

kombi: Danger Avoid Death: kombi: Dont think so. Not now with our connected world. Even when a country cuts internet feeds it still comes out. Now during Nixon that was a different world than the one we live in now.

Yeah. We weren't involved in any senseless wars we started for spurious reasons.
Oh... wait ...
Nevermind.

? Never said that. My great grand farther was shot down over Russia during the "Cold War" A Air Japan (I think) was shot down over Russia because the thought it was a disguised US aircraft. I thought that was just a cold war. No shots fired At least thats what we have been told. And really all war is senseless but sometimes it just needs to be done.


Google "irony".
 
2013-03-20 03:15:09 AM
Term limits, for all of Congress. After two terms in either House or Senate, you're done. That is all you get. If you are very good, the other house might take you, but after that, you have to go and live in the country you created. Liberal and Conservative alike.

No more making a career of public service.

No more getting rich on the people's dime and sending the people's army to make you richer.

No more six-figure salaries and lifetime benefits ON TOP of the ability to enrich yourself by colluding with war criminals. You get paid to do the job, and when the job is done, you get to go get another job, or retire, but the people do not care for you for life. That is what soldiers get, not the people who murder them.

No more eternal incumbencies to the point where the overwhelming majority of the people in charge of laws pertaining to the Internet can remember when color TV was new and no member of Congress can remember what minimum wage felt like.

No more stagnation, and no more accountability shoved under the rug because 'well, he's got seniority in the party.' Hell with that.

In politics as in biology, speeding up the turnover helps things evolve and improve faster.

I say we speed it the hell up, now. If we can essentially flip Congress inside of ten years, we CAN see everyone responsible for Iraq punished. Clear them all out and start over.
 
2013-03-20 03:16:03 AM
The most important lesson you will ever learn is the one that they just won't teach you in school: Nationalism blows all sorts of donkey cock. No child is born into this world waving a flag, we are indoctrinated with revisionist history and stirring ceremony. The sooner we unlearn these teachings the better off we are because we won't sign up to die for terribly executed principles.
 
2013-03-20 03:16:45 AM

fusillade762: StoPPeRmobile: Remember when Sadam complained about Kuwait slant drilling so the the borders were re-drawn?

Saddam even asked permission first (sort of):

Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960′s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)


Thanks but that's not a scholarly source.
 
2013-03-20 03:17:41 AM
This letter is refreshing.

In my redneck mountain town, we're overrun with the kind of vets that went overseas to fight for our freedom, then came back home to fight against it.
 
2013-03-20 03:17:57 AM
kombi

Dont think so. Not now with our connected world. Even when a country cuts internet feeds it still comes out. Now during Nixon that was a different world than the one we live in now.

(note ive attempted to reduce my snark level but its hard)

i hope you are and will be right
i counter claim tho that the info could be out there but untill a minion takes pictures theres no traction to the story

that could be all we have to count on
 
2013-03-20 03:18:14 AM
To everyone who says "b. . .b. . .but all these other countries believed the intel too!"

Other countries had  suspicionsbut were not persuaded enough to join the war, which is why the "coalition of the willing" was almost fleshed out with mine-hunting monkeys.  So we had a bunch of troops from Great Britain, some from Poland  and that's just about it. France and Germany were not persuaded along with a bunch of other countries a lot of war cheerleaders point to now as believing the intel about WMD.

Again, the had reason to be suspicious (hence why they supported sending in inspectors,) but not enough to actually endorse war.  It's not black and white, dipshiats.  You can't start a farking war on a slight suspicion.  Well, you  can,but history has shown yet again you really shouldn't.

Yes, the French surrender monkeys (different from the mine-hunting monkeys,) were right.  Hence  freedom fries.

Stop rewriting history.  YOU WERE WRONG>
 
2013-03-20 03:18:43 AM
I was one of the RINOs that was warning you all.
I told you.
We told you.
WE TOLD YOU.
I forgive you. Good luck in your beliefs. We were wrong and we will pay the price.
We were wrong.
We will pay.
 
2013-03-20 03:19:08 AM

Kurmudgeon: lolpix: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."

And yet as a Christian and a Democrat, I never supported Dubya, Dick or the GOP to the point I've lost family and friends over this issue. Bush 2 Administration bore false witness to wage war.
That is not a Christian value. Oh well, I'm sure someone will knee jerk post this Sinclair Lewis quote inaccurately once again.


The cross does not implicate just the Christian religion. It's representative of all intersecting sticks.

/Trying my Monty Python "cheesemaker" joke.
 
2013-03-20 03:19:36 AM

SpiderQueenDemon: Term limits, for all of Congress. After two terms in either House or Senate, you're done. That is all you get. If you are very good, the other house might take you, but after that, you have to go and live in the country you created. Liberal and Conservative alike.

No more making a career of public service.


The downside is rookie politicians with veteran lobbyists.  'Welcome to DC, here's how you will vote while you're here.'
 
2013-03-20 03:21:19 AM

ficklefkrfark: muck4doo: log_jammin: muck4doo: Notice log_jammin doesn't take part in Obama's drone wars?

I got out of the military about 15 years ago. so what's your point?

Oh that's right. You can't speak about the actual topic because you know you're wrong so you have to keep trying to change the subject.

Otherwise you would be killing women and children with obama with glee. Got it.

You are the most bleeding heart republican I have ever met.....getting upset over people dying in drone attacks? You probably have called for a " glass parking lot" or a "second amendment solution" yet you cry like a little biatch with a boo boo when a pussy socialist surgically kills some 'ferner.
/being a badass means always being a badass...no getting soft there tough guy


Wrong is wrong and murder is wrong no matter who is doing it. I've said it for years. Glad you love your new war mongering ways though. Go kill some more women and children with your murdering president. Blasting away brown people to freedom, yeah!
 
2013-03-20 03:23:53 AM
muck4doo-

You still haven't answered my simple question:

Did you support the Iraq invasion in 2003? Yes or no?

(If so) do you still think it was a good idea? Yes or no?
 
2013-03-20 03:25:18 AM

Owangotang: The most important lesson you will ever learn is the one that they just won't teach you in school: Nationalism blows all sorts of donkey cock.


Pfft. My second grade teacher wrote that on the blackboard on the first day.
 
2013-03-20 03:28:15 AM

Alphax: SpiderQueenDemon: Term limits, for all of Congress. After two terms in either House or Senate, you're done. That is all you get. If you are very good, the other house might take you, but after that, you have to go and live in the country you created. Liberal and Conservative alike.

No more making a career of public service.

The downside is rookie politicians with veteran lobbyists.  'Welcome to DC, here's how you will vote while you're here.'


Agreed. Term limits are a lobbyist's wet dream. Rookie politicians are enormously cheaper to own than multi-term incumbents with name-recognition and clout.
 
2013-03-20 03:30:01 AM

Corn_Fed: You still haven't answered my simple question:


and he won't. he's incapable of admitting he was wrong.
 
2013-03-20 03:30:47 AM

Corn_Fed: muck4doo-

You still haven't answered my simple question:

Did you support the Iraq invasion in 2003? Yes or no?

(If so) do you still think it was a good idea? Yes or no?


No.
 
2013-03-20 03:32:32 AM
GORDON:  The man actually worked with Congress that wasn't of his party.  Bills got signed.  Budgets got passed.  He had half the unemployment numbers of Obama.  Yet, he was the moron and Obama is the great leader.

Hey, anybody remember, "Bush Derangement Syndrome?"


Yeah because the other party was not hell-bent on farking him on every turn, being against him just to be against him.
That is the legacy of the Republicans in Congress since Obama.  Unemployment is correlated to the economy-and Dubya inherited a boom from Clinton, and under him it turned into the Great Recession.
 
2013-03-20 03:41:58 AM

muck4doo: Corn_Fed: muck4doo-

You still haven't answered my simple question:

Did you support the Iraq invasion in 2003? Yes or no?

(If so) do you still think it was a good idea? Yes or no?

No.


Incredible! A conservative who didn't support the Iraq invasion in 2003!  I hope the Smithsonian documents your genus and species, as you are certainly a very rare specimen!

I suppose you also railed against Bush's profligate spending, urging fiscal restraint and great concern about the deficit, all throughout his two terms?
 
2013-03-20 03:46:27 AM

Corn_Fed: muck4doo: Corn_Fed: muck4doo-

You still haven't answered my simple question:

Did you support the Iraq invasion in 2003? Yes or no?

(If so) do you still think it was a good idea? Yes or no?

No.

Incredible! A conservative who didn't support the Iraq invasion in 2003!  I hope the Smithsonian documents your genus and species, as you are certainly a very rare specimen!

I suppose you also railed against Bush's profligate spending, urging fiscal restraint and great concern about the deficit, all throughout his two terms?


He spent like a drunken sailor visiting a Thai whore house. Conservatives complained about it back then. Where have you been?
 
2013-03-20 03:46:51 AM

muck4doo: 0bama is exactly and precisely equivalent to Bush!!


STOP THAT.

Bad muck.

Go to your room!!
 
2013-03-20 03:48:07 AM

sendtodave: I live in China.  Most expats and locals have this "how could the most powerful country be so dumb" attitude about the whole affair.

It's like realizing you left the keys to the car with your five year old.


Are you talking about China or the USA?
 
2013-03-20 03:48:35 AM

Kittypie070: muck4doo: 0bama is exactly and precisely equivalent to Bush!!

STOP THAT.

Bad muck.

Go to your room!!


But mom....!
 
2013-03-20 03:49:02 AM

muck4doo: Conservatives complained about it back then.


complained? they were voting for it.  where have you been?
 
2013-03-20 03:49:52 AM

Corn_Fed: I suppose you also railed against Bush's profligate spending


You think Bush knows what "profligate" means?

/just wondering.
 
2013-03-20 03:51:55 AM
Hail storm in Austin right now. I can't sleep. Sounds like my windows are gonna get broken.
 
2013-03-20 03:54:04 AM

ciberido: sendtodave: I live in China.  Most expats and locals have this "how could the most powerful country be so dumb" attitude about the whole affair.

It's like realizing you left the keys to the car with your five year old.

Are you talking about China or the USA?


I dunno, but think how bad a five-year-old Asian would drive. Yikes!

/**ducks**
 
2013-03-20 03:55:04 AM
Pea to nickle size hail stones. Starting to die down now a bit.
 
2013-03-20 03:56:53 AM

Danger Avoid Death: Corn_Fed: I suppose you also railed against Bush's profligate spending

You think Bush knows what "profligate" means?

/just wondering.


Hell, I don't know what it means. But it gives me a strange tingly feeling down there.
 
2013-03-20 03:57:09 AM

log_jammin: muck4doo: Conservatives complained about it back then.

complained? they were voting for it.  where have you been?


No, we hated how he spent. Why don't you look sometime at what actual conservatives say, and not just what you read every day at TPM.
 
2013-03-20 04:01:04 AM

muck4doo: log_jammin: muck4doo: Conservatives complained about it back then.

complained? they were voting for it.  where have you been?

No, we hated how he spent. Why don't you look sometime at what actual conservatives say, and not just what you read every day at TPM.


Please. There was no widespread call among conservatives against Bush's spending during his tenure. Absolute revisionism.
 
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