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(TruthDig)   The Last Letter: A Message to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney From a Dying Veteran   (truthdig.com) divider line 881
    More: Hero, George W. Bush, Sadr, selfishness, Iraq War, veterans  
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27237 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2013 at 12:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-20 01:32:29 AM

spamdog: HideAndGoFarkYourself: No. According to every legitimate source around, Hussein was inside the spider hole when found.

I remember some reporter on CNN at the time had obviously been given some conflicting information, and she suggested that there was a taxi in the spiderhole with him!

This gave me some really confusing imagery. Was the taxi buried or something? Was there a small tunnel leading into one of the windows or something?

Of course later it came out that he was just hiding in an inconspicuous suburban home and it all made a lot more sense then!


The small stories that contradict the popular narrative usually get lost.  Like the one about the DoD conducting an exercise on 9/11 simulating an airplane crash into a building.
 
2013-03-20 01:32:52 AM
I like america. I hate liberals. Therefore, liberals must not be america. RUMSFELD/CHENEY 2016!
 
2013-03-20 01:32:57 AM

lolpix: Obama is going to get a pass too.


As if there was any comparison. Sheesh. Jimmy Carter was probably more of a war criminal.
 
2013-03-20 01:33:06 AM

spamdog: HideAndGoFarkYourself: No. According to every legitimate source around, Hussein was inside the spider hole when found.

I remember some reporter on CNN at the time had obviously been given some conflicting information, and she suggested that there was a taxi in the spiderhole with him!

This gave me some really confusing imagery. Was the taxi buried or something? Was there a small tunnel leading into one of the windows or something?

Of course later it came out that he was just hiding in an inconspicuous suburban home and it all made a lot more sense then!


That makes more sense than the Wiki entry on the topic.

"Items confiscated during the raid include two AK-47 rifles, a pistol, $750,000.00 U.S. dollars and one white/orange taxi. Two other individuals who have not been identified were also detained. There were no casualties in the operation."

Seemed like a lot for one hole.
 
2013-03-20 01:33:41 AM

sendtodave: Corn_Fed: None of the Democrats who got strong-armed into cowardly going along with it actually wanted it.

How were they strong armed into it
Unless you mean strong armed by their constituants, who wanted war.

But that's normal.  We call it Democracy.

You can blame a political party, I blame the American people who, like this soldier, wanted war.


Someone has has common sense in this thread.  Thanks
 
2013-03-20 01:33:58 AM

TWX: lolpix: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."

Lewis, Sinclair. It Can't Happen Here. 1935.

Good book. In my opinion it should be required reading in high school English classes.


False attribution, good book.

"This quote sounds like something Sinclair Lewis might have said or written, but the Sinclair Lewis Society has never been able to find this exact quote although we've been asked a number of times."

Full text of that book here; no sign of that quote.
 
2013-03-20 01:34:11 AM
said he's dying so young, really, but this guy is fairly ignorant.

this country has picked a significant fight on average every 4 years since the Spanish-American war.
there have been maybe two military interventions we have undertaken in the last century that we didn't actively choose to become a belligerent, but rather were the innocent victims.

heck, since my first memories as a small child thirty years ago these interventions I can recall:

Libya 1, Grenada, Panama, Kosovo, Gulf war 1, Somalia, Libya 2, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Yemen, Pakistan, and possibly Syria.

that's 13, in 30 years, and only one of those was provoked. and we've been doing this for a century.
If you go into the service assuming you will be defending America from an existential threat, you are just a straight up ignoramus.
 
2013-03-20 01:34:45 AM
soupbone: this is the world we live in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU9lv_WqK6k
 
2013-03-20 01:34:50 AM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Some one had blunder'd


Yeah, that's what I was implying.

If you are a soldier, your job is to fight, and maybe die, even if your leaders are wrong.

That's your job.

What kind of critically-thinking person would choose that?

The kind that thinks that America is never wrong?
 
2013-03-20 01:34:51 AM

Triumph: muck4doo: Okay. This is stupid. Bush declared war on an undeserving country and leader. Obama does drone strikes on enemies of America. Idiots will never see the difference.

Enemies of America? Like those Al Qaeda rebels fighting to liberate Syria?


Whatever your enemy of the day is according to president lady pants.
 
2013-03-20 01:35:11 AM
I hear that Jeb Bush wants to become president so he can kill more Americans than his father or his brother.  What a filthy family!
GW will burn in hell.
Along with all of his supporters.
 
2013-03-20 01:37:01 AM

relcec: If you go into the service assuming you will be defending America from an existential threat, you are just a straight up ignoramus.


Well, SOMEONE doesn't Support Our Troops.

Positively unAmerican.
 
2013-03-20 01:37:08 AM

rosebud_the_sled: Along with all of his supporters.


I don't think that's how it works.
 
2013-03-20 01:39:13 AM
Soldier, blame your pathetic countrymen. Your pathetic countrymen who are nauseatingly deferential to power, and easily swayed by corporate media propaganda these days.

This once great nation used to be populated by people who didn't just sit back and take it on the chin when power (government or corporate) decided to put the screws to them. Had Iraq 2 happened in the early 1900s, you can rest assured that a ragtag assortment of labor unions, farmers, intellectuals, and political muckrakers would have been out in the streets rioting; demanding to know why the working class was sent off to die so the elites could fatten their billfolds.

Instead, we not only re-elected the cretins who plunged this country headfirst into war profiteering (which is all Iraq 2 was), but we completely swore off any investigative or punitive measures in the aftermath to punish those responsible. Obama has made it clear that there will be no prosecutions of anyone in the Bush administration. Your weak countrymen have responded to this with a resounding "meh".

You can't blame power seekers for not giving a fark about you, soldier. They've always been that way and they always will be. But you CAN blame your countrymen for being derelict in their duty (namely, not holding these "elected" leaders' feet to the fire when necessary).

Bush and Cheney didn't fail you. We did.
 
2013-03-20 01:39:47 AM
Every American who supported that nonsense war and fell for their bullshiat, when it was plenty obvious even at the time there were major holes in their story, needs to apologize.

I farkin' stood out in the rain with an anti-war sign in traffic. I never do shiat like that but I knew bullshiat when I saw it.

What was your excuse?
 
2013-03-20 01:39:52 AM
I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.
 
2013-03-20 01:40:09 AM

DocTrevena: I know war now. I'll tell you what it is. War is young men killing other young men they do not know on the orders of old men who know one another too well.


Erwin Kowalke, servant of the bones.

/yes, it's an Ann Rice book title
 
2013-03-20 01:40:38 AM
Guess everyone on the right side of the aisle has forgotten about these:

Operation Iraqi Freedom documents are some 48,000 boxes of documents, audiotapes and videotapes that were discovered by the U.S. military during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

During an interview with Committee staff, the lead DIA analyst who follows the issue of possible connections between the Iraqi government and al-Qa'ida noted that the DIA 'continues to maintain that there was no partnership between the two organizations'.

The study also cites documents demonstrating that key evidence presented by Colin Powell to the United Nations in February 2003 had been severely misinterpreted by the U.S. government.

The study's findings represent the analysis of many of the Iraqi Freedom documents and related interviews. In particular, the project concluded that: (1) Saddam's secretive and authoritarian government, together with his paranoia, rendered the Iraqi army grossly unprepared for conflict with coalition forces; (2) Saddam grossly miscalculated the ability of his contacts with the Russian, French, Chinese and other governments to prevent military action against Iraq, and (3) although Iraq almost certainly did not possess weapons of mass destruction, Saddam's desire to preserve ambiguity on the issue, together with his government's secrecy and previous attempts to deceive UN inspectors made it difficult for Iraq to convince the world that it had disarmed.

Many of the documents seem to make clear that Saddam's regime had given up on seeking a WMD capability by the mid-1990s. As AP reported, "Repeatedly in the transcripts, Saddam and his lieutenants remind each other that Iraq destroyed its chemical and biological weapons in the early 1990s, and shut down those programs and the nuclear-bomb program, which had never produced a weapon." At one 1996 presidential meeting, top weapons program official Amer Mohammed Rashid, describes his conversation with UN weapons inspector Rolf Ekeus: "We don't have anything to hide, so we're giving you all the details." At another meeting Saddam told his deputies, "We cooperated with the resolutions 100 percent and you all know that, and the 5 percent they claim we have not executed could take them 10 years to (verify). Don't think for a minute that we still have WMD. We have nothing."
 
2013-03-20 01:41:00 AM

Kurmudgeon: Yogimus: I can respect a villain, not so much the coward.

Good, you must have much more respect for John Kerry, Max Cleland and others who served than Bush who got nowhere near Vietnam and Cheney who had "other priorities".


He was busy killing Mace Windu.
 
2013-03-20 01:41:29 AM

Generation_D: When do the easily deluded, easily conned followers get their share of the blame/credit for the military debacles of history?

Never. Its always those poor noble men and women who were led astray.


I wonder what you get out of framing it this way. Even I knew in 2003 invading Iraq was stupid; just about everyone I knew and talked to at the time did. But somehow, there were people in my group of friends who joined anyway. Apparently their reasoning is not something you are capable of understanding and in fact feel the need to crap on.... which frankly says more about you than them.
 
2013-03-20 01:42:51 AM

pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.


hurrr hurrr hurrr yeah!
 
2013-03-20 01:43:33 AM

middleoftheday: I wonder what you get out of framing it this way. Even I knew in 2003 invading Iraq was stupid; just about everyone I knew and talked to at the time did. But somehow, there were people in my group of friends who joined anyway. Apparently their reasoning is not something you are capable of understanding and in fact feel the need to crap on.... which frankly says more about you than them.


Deciding to join in with something dangerous and stupid isn't reasoning, it's rationalization.
 
2013-03-20 01:44:23 AM

SurelyShirley: sex0r: lolpix: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."

Too late.  It came in the form of "hope and change."

I thought that was supposed to be socialism.
We need to get our isms straight.


When you're as derpy as  sex0r, you don't understand that there IS a difference between socialism and fascism.
 
2013-03-20 01:44:25 AM
Question:  Why weren't Dubya and Cheney hauled to The Hague as soon as Obama took office?
 
2013-03-20 01:44:29 AM

middleoftheday: I wonder what you get out of framing it this way.


a sense of smug superiority.
 
2013-03-20 01:44:36 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Mentat: And Dick Cheney will never care.

I dont think Barry cares that his Golf game costs 5750 easter egg hunts.  But what is important is to cancel the egg hunt to show you mean business about saving money.


The egg hunt is not canceled.  White House tours are canceled.

Probably mothballed the basement bowling alley that Nixon installed.
 
2013-03-20 01:44:56 AM
Positives:

Al Queda, as we knew it, is over.  Most of this was accomplished via banking regulations and local government crackdowns.
We left Saudi, and moved a permanent residence into Afghanistan/Iraq, stabilizing the Saudi King's seat of power
The separation of powers between congress and the presidency were further muddied
The U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act is now a thing and will never go away.
Being "Patriotic" is now an acceptable excuse to be dumb.

U.S.A! U.S.A!


/I shiat you not: Uniting (and) Strengthening America (by) Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act
 
2013-03-20 01:45:12 AM

Corn_Fed: So....how long does it take for a populace to completely forget being duped into a stupid, useless war, and decides to do it again?

By the Vietnam - Iraq example, apparently about 35 to 40 years. I guess we can look forward to the next Republican war around 2040.




I doubt we will have finished this one by then.
 
2013-03-20 01:45:31 AM
blog.gettyimages.com justifiedright.typepad.com
 
2013-03-20 01:45:36 AM

brukmann: lolpix: Obama is going to get a pass too.

As if there was any comparison. Sheesh. Jimmy Carter was probably more of a war criminal.


Obama's administration is worse than Bush's in some ways. They are more prone to prosecuting whistle blowers, decline to prosecute bankers (HSBC) who wittingly launder money for drug cartels and Iran (Iran!), routinely seek to extend and expand the NDAA, expand drone warfare and so-called lily-pad bases to carry out extra-judicial killings and assassinations on their own authority throughout the Middle East and Africa. Obama is cool because he thinks you should have access to health insurance and everyone should quit picking on the gays. On the other hand, a few years ago he went to India as part of a trade PR tour and his personal guest of honor was the CEO of the company that makes the back scatter x-ray machines for use in air ports. In short, don't kid yourself. Obama is charming, but he's not a good guy.
 
2013-03-20 01:45:55 AM

pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.


we should have assassinated him, but ultimately the US was responsible for Saddam because we gave him the weapons and money he was using to kill and suppress his own people. we gave him these things to kill iranians of course, and that was just another example of crappy foreign policy....
 
2013-03-20 01:46:20 AM

muck4doo: pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.

hurrr hurrr hurrr yeah!


It might restore some faith in America from the rest of the world.

I live in China.  Most expats and locals have this "how could the most powerful country be so dumb" attitude about the whole affair.

It's like realizing you left the keys to the car with your five year old.
 
2013-03-20 01:46:24 AM

pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.


Better idea, arrest all republicans! They stand in our way of the brave new world we want to bring!
 
2013-03-20 01:46:33 AM

muck4doo: pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.

hurrr hurrr hurrr yeah!


I bet you STILL think you were right in supporting the war, don't you, sucker. Politicians count on people like you.
 
2013-03-20 01:48:38 AM

muck4doo: pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.

Better idea, arrest all republicans! They stand in our way of the brave new world we want to bring!


You mean smart people? You're right, smart people do have a dream of a world not overrun with drooling suckers such as yourself.

Call us fools.
 
2013-03-20 01:49:43 AM

pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.


Obama should have done this. That's not my crazy liberal fantasy -- if he was really any different than Bush, he would have told the Republicans (and half the Democrats) to shut the fark up and used his entire first term dragging this thing into daylight, no matter where it led.

He'd have been a one-termer for sure, but it would have done more long-term good than anything else he's been up to. This bullshiat will never stop until a rich guy goes to the chair for war crimes.

/lookin' at you and your drone program, Obama...
 
2013-03-20 01:50:23 AM

untaken_name: If you think the people responsible for war care about the people fighting war, you don't yet understand the true nature of war.


i18.photobucket.com
Major General Smedley Butler.
He understood the nature of war.
 
2013-03-20 01:50:28 AM

Confabulat: muck4doo: pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.

Better idea, arrest all republicans! They stand in our way of the brave new world we want to bring!

You mean smart people? You're right, smart people do have a dream of a world not overrun with drooling suckers such as yourself.

Call us fools.


Live the dream mr Pol Pot
 
2013-03-20 01:50:56 AM

Confabulat: muck4doo: pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.

hurrr hurrr hurrr yeah!

I bet you STILL think you were right in supporting the war, don't you, sucker. Politicians count on people like you.


Do you still think you are "right" for supporting your political side so the other guys don't win? Instead of making sure that every one of those farkers is voted out of office?
 
2013-03-20 01:52:10 AM

Alphax: HideAndGoFarkYourself: Much like the spider hole that dirty bastard was pulled from, I'm fairly sure there are some chemical weapons buried somewhere in Iraq to this day.

Wasn't that the 'spider hole' that Saddam was put in after his capture, then pulled out of, to make him seem more cowardly?


Would you mind giving a citation for that?
 
2013-03-20 01:52:10 AM

Yogimus: Do you still think you are "right" for supporting your political side so the other guys don't win? Instead of making sure that every one of those farkers is voted out of office?


What, vote Nader? hehehe
 
2013-03-20 01:53:13 AM

Confabulat: muck4doo: log_jammin: muck4doo: Good thing you got it back on point

"I know you are but what am i"

Straight to getting back to the point.

Confabulat: muck4doo: pkt729: I have a crazy idea that would make a lot of people happy, order an arrest warrant for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove for their involvement in ordering a war that should have never happened.

hurrr hurrr hurrr yeah!

I bet you STILL think you were right in supporting the war, don't you, sucker. Politicians count on people like you.

I didn't vote on it. Did you?

No, but I didn't spend years on Fark arguing why it was a good idea either.

History has already proven you wrong. Why can't you be man enough to apologize?


Sorry, didn't realize i spent years on fark arguing for it. But forget all that, time to wipe out people  with differing views! It's the Confabulat way.
 
2013-03-20 01:53:44 AM

TOG85: So many of you commenting have never seen Iraq, nor understand anything there, It's a bit sad really.


www.lolwut.com
 
2013-03-20 01:53:48 AM
So you join the military. Get sick. Now pissed that you where expected to fight im a military action because well you joined the military. So today's military is just the post office. A bunch of guys that dont want to work. Dont want to do the job they volunteered for. Pick and choose what orders to follow. Well its definitely an example of the past few generations. Im sorry your sick. Im sorry your going out this way. I know your mad this is the way your going out. But grow a pair.

And get over it. This has been Obama war for what 5 years now. Has he pulled all the troops out no. And this war crimes crap needs to go away.
 
2013-03-20 01:54:12 AM

muck4doo: Drone strikes are awesome.


No, they aren't. They are creating more enemies than they are removing.
 
2013-03-20 01:54:50 AM

neaorin: muck4doo: Drone strikes are awesome.

No, they aren't. They are creating more enemies than they are removing.


And then killing them.
 
2013-03-20 01:55:41 AM

lolpix: brukmann: lolpix: Obama is going to get a pass too.

As if there was any comparison. Sheesh. Jimmy Carter was probably more of a war criminal.

Obama's administration is worse than Bush's in some ways. They are more prone to prosecuting whistle blowers, decline to prosecute bankers (HSBC) who wittingly launder money for drug cartels and Iran (Iran!), routinely seek to extend and expand the NDAA, expand drone warfare and so-called lily-pad bases to carry out extra-judicial killings and assassinations on their own authority throughout the Middle East and Africa. Obama is cool because he thinks you should have access to health insurance and everyone should quit picking on the gays. On the other hand, a few years ago he went to India as part of a trade PR tour and his personal guest of honor was the CEO of the company that makes the back scatter x-ray machines for use in air ports. In short, don't kid yourself. Obama is charming, but he's not a good guy.


Exactly. You're describing a normal POTUS vs. war criminals. There is no real comparison. Not that it's apples to oranges, that it's 1000:1 on the bullshiat scale. But thanks for insulting me by suggesting i'm a starry-eyed moron. Which, btw, i have found in exactly zero Obama supporters, as it is another right-wing fantasy.
 
2013-03-20 01:57:00 AM

Yogimus: neaorin: muck4doo: Drone strikes are awesome.

No, they aren't. They are creating more enemies than they are removing.

And then killing them.


What happened to the whole "interfering with the Muslim world will create more terrorists than we kill" thing around the Iraq war days?

/ In b4 'nobody said that'
 
2013-03-20 01:57:13 AM

Yogimus: neaorin: muck4doo: Drone strikes are awesome.

No, they aren't. They are creating more enemies than they are removing.

And then killing them.


Awesome
 
2013-03-20 01:58:01 AM

kombi: So you join the military. Get sick. Now pissed that you where expected to fight im a military action because well you joined the military. So today's military is just the post office. A bunch of guys that dont want to work. Dont want to do the job they volunteered for. Pick and choose what orders to follow. Well its definitely an example of the past few generations. Im sorry your sick. Im sorry your going out this way. I know your mad this is the way your going out. But grow a pair.

And get over it. This has been Obama war for what 5 years now. Has he pulled all the troops out no. And this war crimes crap needs to go away.


You're drunk, Kombi. Go home.
 
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