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(Phoenix New Times)   Arizona wants to go full "Where birth certifcit whe" on anyone who uses a public restroom   (blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com) divider line 160
    More: Amusing, restrooms, Representative John Kavanagh, United States House Committee on Appropriations, bathrooms  
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14549 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2013 at 5:36 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-19 07:33:39 PM  

Bumblefark: Proposing to use the law in order to express/enforce a widely accepted social norm?

Insanity!


Anything, extended to a sufficiently absurd length, is insane. Insanity is mainly a matter of degree.
 
2013-03-19 07:43:08 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-19 07:44:42 PM  
WHAR 'ARIZONA' TAG?  WHAR?

/seriously, they're giving FL a run for their money in the 'derp' department.  political derp vs. 'here, hold my beer' derp; which is worse?
 
2013-03-19 07:45:12 PM  

Amos Quito: [www.nmedia.net image 400x276]

Who needs birth certificates when there are plenty of highly trained specialists ready and willing to guard our lavatories?


/Just a grab 'll do ya


shinybadge.com

ok sir or ma'am i jes needs ta see yer state-issued ID and then i needs to checks insid'ja asshole...
 
2013-03-19 07:47:26 PM  
as in "whe"t stone?

or dhry stone
???
 
2013-03-19 07:47:29 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: Unless there are other sections to this bill that were not posted in the article, it is pretty much unenforcible for the vast majority of restrooms.  I have seen the entrances to a few thousand public restrooms in the decades that I have been alive.  I have only seen a handful that meet the criteria that was laid out in the bill language.

AND A SIGN INDICATES THAT THE ROOM IS FOR THE EXCLUSIVE USE OF PERSONS OF ONE SEX

Most have a sign that just indicates sex such as "MEN" or "WOMEN" or the little stick figure guys.  They say nothing about "exclusivity" and can be viewed as suggestions.  Unless the bill specifically defines what it takes to meet the definition of "indicating exclusivity" then there's a problem.


Interesting idea. And you're probably right.
 
2013-03-19 07:50:28 PM  
i29.photobucket.com

What about a restroom for dolphins...?
 
2013-03-19 07:54:46 PM  

serpent_sky: nekom: It's only March, but so far this may well be the dumbest idea I've heard all year. It has been pointed out that transsexuals (post or pre-op) are FAR better off going to the ladies room. But let's ask the Farkettes: Does that bother ANY of you at all? Honestly?

/I've seen women in the mens room at concerts, no one cared.

Not in the slightest. I never really understood the whole men's and women's rooms, anyway.  If someone is a deviant predator waiting to abduct me or do something horrible in the bathroom, that "women's" sign isn't going to deter him, or make him say "oh wait, I can't be in here. Better go somewhere else."  I really don't care who is in the bathroom with me, so long as they aren't in the same stall as i am using - and I'd have a problem if a woman did that, as well.
 *shrug*

I really don't pay enough attention to people minding their own business and not bothering anyone to have the slightest care or concern to this end.



I have a female friend who used a men's bathroom once in an emergency.  She reported afterwards that it was horrible for her knowing that that the person in the next stall was a man.  Granted, she's a bit neurotic (though not homophobic or transphobic), but apparently women really not wanting men in the ladies' room is a real thing.

On the other hand, being bisexual, I can tell you one of the advantages of dating someone of the opposite sex is that when you excuse yourself and go to the bathroom, there's no chance of your date following you in.  I wouldn't mind unisex bathrooms in general, but on a date, I would love there to be some sort of protocol that prevented your date from using the same bathroom as you.
 
2013-03-19 07:55:29 PM  
The best politician is one that just blocks all new laws from being passed.
Very rare.
 
2013-03-19 07:56:25 PM  
TFA:  Republican Representative...

NO shiat...A REPUBLICAN??1?
 
2013-03-19 07:58:22 PM  

what_now: So, if I use the men's room because its empty and there' are four chicks waiting in line for the ladies, I'm a felon?


Nah. Just show me your tits, and I promise I won't tell on you.
 
2013-03-19 07:59:54 PM  
Stopped reading at "Arizona"

www.ushmm.org
 
2013-03-19 08:03:44 PM  

serpent_sky: cman: I would see nothing wrong with this if there was language added to protect transgendered folk.

You gotta admit, there is a litlebit of logic concerning "grown men go into girls bathroom for children"

Because there are no laws on the book that protect children from adult predators now?
Because that sign on the door, or that "disorderly conduct" charge is really going to make a predator say "never mind..." and go home and have a cup of tea and do the crossword instead?

It's blatantly obvious this is just a little "f-you" to transsexual and transgender people and when they realized just how blatant it was, they padded it out with some "protecting the little girls" bullshiat.  Because by this logic, who is protecting the girls from female predators? Or the boys from male predators? Maybe they need children only bathrooms because of this epidemic of child molesters in the bathrooms in AZ!  Or, you know, they just want to make like a little more difficult for, while further marginalizing, trans people and it has nothing at all to do with "the children."



It's quite the well-known canard in the transgender community that transphobes THINK transwomen are "really" just perverted, deviant men who want to go into women's restrooms for voyeuristic thrills.

It's ridiculous, of course.  If there was really some big danger of people going into bathrooms in order to get their jollies spying on others, then you'd be a lot more worried about gay men and lesbians.  And no, I'm not denying that there -are- people who want to spy on women using the bathroom.  I know that there are whole websites devoted to that kind of thing.  I'm just saying that the perverts aren't the ones contemplating sexual reassignment surgery.  You don't cut your penis off because you think it's going to help you get laid.

Also, no, I'm not saying that it's necessarily perverted or wrong to get a sexual thrill from watching someone use the toilet.  But if that's what floats your boat, talk your girlfriend into letting you watch or something.
 
2013-03-19 08:14:44 PM  
I think this should pass and that cross dressers, pre-op trannies, transgendered folk with "male" on their BC, and anyone else you can scrounge up that freaks out straight males should descend upon Arizona like a plague of locusts. And drink a lot of water.
 
2013-03-19 08:17:26 PM  

Tiiba: [img810.imageshack.us image 327x322]

Would like a word.


"Yeah, Frost, but the one that you had was a male!"
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
"It don't matter when it's Arcturian, baby!"
 
2013-03-19 08:18:10 PM  

jso2897: Bumblefark: Proposing to use the law in order to express/enforce a widely accepted social norm?

Insanity!

Anything, extended to a sufficiently absurd length, is insane. Insanity is mainly a matter of degree.


Yeah, and I fail to find what is so "extreme" in this measure. If anything, it simply makes an explicit violation of something that has historically been regulated through "disorderly conduct" statutes, etc.

That's a good thing, however you feel about segregated bathrooms. If you support them, it gives you a clear basis for a complaint over a violation. If you oppose them, it give a clear target for a legislative or legal challenge.
 
2013-03-19 08:20:59 PM  
Arizona's derp level is now so far off the scale is can no longer be measured.
 
2013-03-19 08:21:21 PM  
i470.photobucket.com
Dads still need to be able to take their sons and daughters into the bathroom.
Moms still need to be able to take their daughters and sons into the bathroom.

Sometimes the only bathroom with a diaper changing station is in the bathroom labeled for women.
Dads can't change diapers there?
Baby boys can't get changed in the bathroom labeled for women?

Some lawmakers need to stop being obsessed with what everyone is doing with their genitals.
 
2013-03-19 08:22:10 PM  

Biological Ali: "Where birth certifcit whe"

I have to say, this is kind of unfair on the birth certifict guy. If you look at the picture, he clearly isn't done writing. What did he intend that last word to be? Hard to say - most likely "where", but there are of course other possibilities, like "wheat", "whelp" and "Whedon"


Yeah.  It's a little-known fact, but he's actually a HUGE Firefly fan.

/They took the birth certificate from me :(
 
2013-03-19 08:23:08 PM  

ciberido: but apparently women really not wanting men in the ladies' room is a real thing


Not wanting a black in the ladies' room was a real thing too. Doesn't mean it's something we should tolerate.

Besides that, her real complaint sounds like "I didn't feel like the stall provided enough privacy" not "someone with a penis was within 6' of me while I peed". That's a bathroom design issue, not a gender issue.
 
xcv
2013-03-19 08:23:23 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: I think this should pass and that cross dressers, pre-op trannies, transgendered folk with "male" on their BC, and anyone else you can scrounge up that freaks out straight males should descend upon Arizona like a plague of locusts. And drink a lot of water.



Like abortion, government and men should have no decision in this. Leave it to the agency of individual women if they wish to tolerate adult bio-males in their restroom or instead ask them to wait outside.
 
2013-03-19 08:24:10 PM  
Sounds like a disabled creeper free-for-all.
 
2013-03-19 08:25:45 PM  

grimlock1972: Arizona's derp level is now so far off the scale is can no longer be measured.



"ciberido, do we have derpsign?"
www.duneinfo.com
"grimlock1972, we have derpsign the likes of which even God has never seen. "
 
2013-03-19 08:27:43 PM  
Make no mistake, this is what Arizona is aiming for:

whereintheworldispatty.com
 
2013-03-19 08:28:39 PM  

nekom: It's only March, but so far this may well be the dumbest idea I've heard all year. It has been pointed out that transsexuals (post or pre-op) are FAR better off going to the ladies room. But let's ask the Farkettes: Does that bother ANY of you at all? Honestly?

/I've seen women in the mens room at concerts, no one cared.


Hey, let's ask for volunteers to express a very personal, yet easily ridiculed position! The world is not made up entirely of Farkettes. Their opinions do not represent the real world.

That said, the legislator is a farking creep. There is a VERY clear commit point when it comes to transgender and it's not on the birth certificate.
 
2013-03-19 08:29:06 PM  

Gleeman: Meanwhile, in Europe....


Yeah...
farm1.staticflickr.com

/think there's some weird version for females too
 
2013-03-19 08:32:15 PM  

penthesilea: Baby boys can't get changed in the bathroom labeled for women?


Exceptions are spelled out pretty clearly. TFA's not that long.

Some lawmakers need to stop being obsessed with what everyone is doing with their genitals.

No argument here. This is a stupid law. But it's best to understand it before criticizing it because of something it doesn't do.
 
2013-03-19 08:32:58 PM  

what_now: So, if I use the men's room because its empty and there' are four chicks waiting in line for the ladies, I'm a felon?


Don't pull that shiat in Stubenville!
 
2013-03-19 08:34:53 PM  

Sgt.Zim: serpent_sky: cman: I would see nothing wrong with this if there was language added to protect transgendered folk.

You gotta admit, there is a litlebit of logic concerning "grown men go into girls bathroom for children"

Because there are no laws on the book that protect children from adult predators now?
Because that sign on the door, or that "disorderly conduct" charge is really going to make a predator say "never mind..." and go home and have a cup of tea and do the crossword instead?

It's blatantly obvious this is just a little "f-you" to transsexual and transgender people and when they realized just how blatant it was, they padded it out with some "protecting the little girls" bullshiat.  Because by this logic, who is protecting the girls from female predators? Or the boys from male predators? Maybe they need children only bathrooms because of this epidemic of child molesters in the bathrooms in AZ!  Or, you know, they just want to make like a little more difficult for, while further marginalizing, trans people and it has nothing at all to do with "the children."

Protip: when they play the "for the children" card, no matter what they are trying to restrict and which side of the aisle they're on, what a politician is really saying is "this will restrict <some group> which I dislike because they disagree with me/are icky/are brown."


This is why I should be in charge, running a mostly-benevolent mostly-dictatorship.

Then my law would be, "If you're proposing a 'for the children' statute, you need a 85% majority vote to pass."  If it's a genuinely good law, then it will have no trouble passing.  If it's a GOPishly disguised bigotry move, then go fark yourselves.
 
2013-03-19 08:41:10 PM  

vernonFL: It sounds like its aimed at transgendered people.

/and drag queens who do bumps of cocaine in the ladies room.


No, I'd say it's aimed EXCLUSIVELY at transgendered men who use the ladies room. I can't imagine for one second they even thought about transgender women using the men's room (because men know those don't exist). But it's also aimed at perverts who are dressed as women for the sole purpose of diddling little children in the ladies room, who presumably are only transgendered men, because we all know they're perverts anyway.

Which raises an interesting question. Given that little children often need Mommy's help in the potty, and the law allows children to be in the "other gender" bathroom by its language (C(1)), at what age can "children" no longer be in the wrong-gender bathroom without running afoul of this law? Any age below 18? When it starts getting creepy to have a teenage boy in the girl's room? What's the cutoff age?
 
2013-03-19 08:42:53 PM  

ciberido: grimlock1972: Arizona's derp level is now so far off the scale is can no longer be measured.


"ciberido, do we have derpsign?"
[www.duneinfo.com image 850x360]
"grimlock1972, we have derpsign the likes of which even God has never seen. "


Mohadib!
 
2013-03-19 08:49:48 PM  
Well, guess I am not going down to visit my Mom in Tucson anytime soon. I don't have a copy of my birth certificate, and would have to wait months to get one from Germany. By that point, I would probably urinated on myself, so I think I will just avoid the issue totally.
 
2013-03-19 09:01:43 PM  
cman:

Thats not it.

Sometimes men could be waiting for a victim and get caught before they can do anything. We could not charge him on anything. Although he had yet to commit the crime of sexual assault, it could have still been his intention.

Thats just my opinion.


Already  got laws for Public nuisances, threatening behavior, and good old fashioned trespassing.

If that ain't enough there's bigger problems.
 
2013-03-19 09:20:59 PM  

what_now: So, if I use the men's room because its empty and there' are four chicks waiting in line for the ladies, I'm a felon?


Yes, if a man in the reverse situation would be a felon. It's only fair.
 
2013-03-19 09:26:18 PM  

duffblue: Thisbymaster: The is simple if you have penis you use the men's room, regardless of your clothing or mental illness.

That sort of logical thinking won't be tolerated in the aspie hugbox that is fark nowadays


Insult everyone else here about their lack of logic, yet fail to show you have used any at all.

Under this proposed law and the logical 'penis' rule, which bathroom would a post op female to male transgender individual be able to legally use?
 
2013-03-19 09:31:14 PM  

DustBunny: grinding_journalist: I see. I've been using "whar xxxx whar" for years and have seen it on many other forums; this is the first I'm seeing that picture or the quote/meme/reference in this context.

You're referring to the accompanying Rush Limbaugh meme where he's captioned saying "Whar Pudding Whar?!"

That one came after the first one and was an adaptation.

I'm sure someone will do me the favour of posting it as I'm hard at work at my .gov job.


i830.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-19 09:33:50 PM  
(damn, clicked too soon to add CSB)

My brother, while at a mall in Dallas, had to pee like a racehorse and found a woman blocking the men's room door (two stalls, three urinals). "My friend is in there and she had to go bad" said the door guard. "So do I" said my brother, who pushed his way past the woman, and used the urinal before he wet his pants. The woman in the stall began to scream, mall cops entered and found the woman still in the stall and my brother using the urinal. Both women continued yelling, the real cops were called and both the women were cited for disorderly conduct. Nothing happened to my brother.

Me? I've been in the men's room twice when women entered to use a stall, citing their "emergency need". Didn't bother me. We all gotta pee.
 
2013-03-19 09:58:21 PM  
WAY TO GO ARIZONA!!!!  Anything to check for illegals, and get them the hell out of this country!!
 
2013-03-19 10:00:29 PM  
God dammit, lemme RTFA first.

God DAMN.

I'll be back.
 
2013-03-19 10:06:27 PM  

Fury Pilot: duffblue: Thisbymaster: The is simple if you have penis you use the men's room, regardless of your clothing or mental illness.

That sort of logical thinking won't be tolerated in the aspie hugbox that is fark nowadays

Insult everyone else here about their lack of logic, yet fail to show you have used any at all.

Under this proposed law and the logical 'penis' rule, which bathroom would a post op female to male transgender individual be able to legally use?


Well, by including the word "legally", your question sort of confuses the norm (i.e., the "penis" rule) with the proposed law (i.e., the birth certificate designation). You seem to assume this creates an ethical paradox.

Except, it doesn't. AZ (like most every state, nowadays, as far as I'm aware) will reissue your birth certificate to reflect a change of sex.
 
2013-03-19 10:07:03 PM  
More: Amusing, restrooms, Representative John Kavanagh, United States House Committee on Appropriations, bathrooms

More? There can never be enough United States House Committee on Appropriations threads!
 
2013-03-19 10:19:50 PM  
Holy shiatweasels.

A) glad to live in California, land of the fruits n nuts

B) had a really interesting digestive malady for some months [fixed right up with a simple calcium citrate+vitamin D supplement]
that made me extremely aware of where EVERY goddamned publicly available bathroom was in my usual haunts, only once
did I need to sneak into the guy's restroom cuz my guts abruptly decided to yank the f*ck outta the loud handle AND THIS ASSHOLE WOULDA PINNED A FELONY ON ME!!??

C) frak Arizona right in the ear
 
2013-03-19 10:44:32 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Kavanagh's strike-everything amendment to Senate Bill 1432, which proposes the following:

2. ENTERING TO GIVE AID OR ASSISTANCE TO ANOTHER PERSON.


Easy solution.  Just say you entered to check if anyone needed assistance.  Duh.
 
2013-03-19 11:25:49 PM  
If you don't have your birth certifcit on you, just take a dump in the street.  Arizona can use the upgrade.
 
2013-03-19 11:49:58 PM  

Thisbymaster: The is simple if you have penis you use the men's room, regardless of your clothing or mental illness.


Well, if it's that important to everyone, okay. I don't have one, so I'll use the ladies' room. I have a full beard and a bass voice, but I'm sure everyone will be totally comfortable with my presence there.
 
2013-03-19 11:50:07 PM  

Tillmaster: gilgigamesh: what_now: So, if I use the men's room because its empty and there' are four chicks waiting in line for the ladies, I'm a felon?

You would be robbing me of the petty satisfaction I get walking past an endless line of women waiting with their legs crossed as I breeze in and out of the men's room, so yes.

You've never been to an opera, have you. The lines at the Gents are even longer than those at the Ladies. Elderly prostates can be a bugger.


I was in a beach bar's men's room when a bikini babe rushed, peeled down her bottoms, and squatted without even closing the stall's door.  Talk about Miss Demeanor!
 
2013-03-19 11:52:02 PM  
If you had gone to the underware party at the downtown Congress hotel in Tucson, Arizona last year, you would have seen all of the twenty eight sexes there.
 
2013-03-19 11:57:08 PM  

Draq: I don't understand this. If you stand up to pee, you go to the bathroom with urinals. If you need a tampon, you go to the bathroom with the tampon machine. It's not a complicated thing. Besides, I know plenty of women who just bust into the men's bathroom with no farks given because the line is shorter.


Once again. If you see someone with a full beard and a deep voice going into a ladies' room, is that going to be more or less comfortable than seeing that same person in a men's room? It's both more and less complicated than you seem to "think". It's more complicated because someone who looks like one gender but has the pee parts of a different gender could actually make people much more uncomfortable by going into the bathroom that matches the parts nobody will see rather than the one that matches the parts everyone will see. It's less complicated in that if you simply mind your own business and stop paying so much attention to other people in public bathrooms, there really wouldn't be a problem for anyone.
 
2013-03-19 11:59:33 PM  

Bumblefark: Fury Pilot: duffblue: Thisbymaster: The is simple if you have penis you use the men's room, regardless of your clothing or mental illness.

That sort of logical thinking won't be tolerated in the aspie hugbox that is fark nowadays

Insult everyone else here about their lack of logic, yet fail to show you have used any at all.

Under this proposed law and the logical 'penis' rule, which bathroom would a post op female to male transgender individual be able to legally use?

Well, by including the word "legally", your question sort of confuses the norm (i.e., the "penis" rule) with the proposed law (i.e., the birth certificate designation). You seem to assume this creates an ethical paradox.

Except, it doesn't. AZ (like most every state, nowadays, as far as I'm aware) will reissue your birth certificate to reflect a change of sex.


This thread is about a proposed law about access to bathrooms based on gender on birth certificate, so it is perfectly reasonable to hold the 'penis' rule up to scrutiny under the proposed law.

DuffBlue's attempted insult implies support for the rule, the rule is logically inconsistent with the topic at hand, so calling his attempt to insult others on the basis of logical superiority is reasonable.

Also, your dismissal of the contradiction is based on a false premise:

Even two minutes on wikipedia found me this:
Almost all U.S. states permit the name and sex to be changed on a birth certificate, either through amending the existing birth certificate or by issuing a new one. Only Idaho, Ohio, Tennessee, and Texas refuse to change the sex, though Texas will do so if a court order is presented. The legislatures and courts of many states, however, including Missouri, have not addressed this issue. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aspects_of_transsexualism_in_the_ Un ited_States

So there are at least 4 US states and any number of foreign countries that would not provide birth certificate changes.
 
xcv
2013-03-20 12:05:47 AM  

grimnir: Draq: I don't understand this. If you stand up to pee, you go to the bathroom with urinals. If you need a tampon, you go to the bathroom with the tampon machine. It's not a complicated thing. Besides, I know plenty of women who just bust into the men's bathroom with no farks given because the line is shorter.

Once again. If you see someone with a full beard and a deep voice going into a ladies' room, is that going to be more or less comfortable than seeing that same person in a men's room? It's both more and less complicated than you seem to "think". It's more complicated because someone who looks like one gender but has the pee parts of a different gender could actually make people much more uncomfortable by going into the bathroom that matches the parts nobody will see rather than the one that matches the parts everyone will see. It's less complicated in that if you simply mind your own business and stop paying so much attention to other people in public bathrooms, there really wouldn't be a problem for anyone.



Bathrooms? Transspecies otherkin should be allowed to pee and shiat outside in public as long as they bring a pooper-scooper.
 
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