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(The Detroit_News)   Detroit Electric to produce electric cars in Michigan. This is not a repeat from 1907   (detroitnews.com) divider line 73
    More: Interesting, Detroit Electric, Michigan, Metro Detroit  
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1443 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Mar 2013 at 12:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-19 01:07:21 PM  
sidewalkhustle.com

/misread the headline
 
2013-03-19 01:20:03 PM  
What Detroit may look like:

www.dighist.org

/Who run?
 
2013-03-19 01:24:27 PM  
It's not the same company. It's just the name. Like when Indian stopped making motorcycles, and later someone bought the name, and started making motorcycles under the Indian name. Totally different group of people. At least with Guns N Roses, ONE of the founding members is still there....
 
2013-03-19 01:27:06 PM  
Versus Chicago Electric, which makes lousy power tools for Harbor Freight?
 
2013-03-19 01:36:44 PM  
Just remember liberals...


It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.

So enjoy your clean car! ROFL.
 
2013-03-19 01:50:02 PM  

TIKIMAN87: Just remember liberals...   It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler. So enjoy your clean car! ROFL.


So wallowing in your own feces like a monster-truck driving retard is preferable to working toward a solution? Thanks for chiming in, Einstein. I'm sure we're all looking forward to your next insight.
 
2013-03-19 01:51:49 PM  

TIKIMAN87: It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.


Two statements, two falsehoods!  Nice work.
 
2013-03-19 01:59:17 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: TIKIMAN87: Just remember liberals...   It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler. So enjoy your clean car! ROFL.

So wallowing in your own feces like a monster-truck driving retard is preferable to working toward a solution? Thanks for chiming in, Einstein. I'm sure we're all looking forward to your next insight.


Not to mention it takes more energy to manufacture hybrid batteries than energy that an F-150 uses over 10 years.
 
2013-03-19 02:15:31 PM  

TIKIMAN87: Not to mention it takes more energy to manufacture hybrid batteries than energy that an F-150 uses over 10 years.


It's plainly obvious that all of your claims thus far are intentional lies and they've been widely debunked on sites easily found via Google, so we'll ignore that bit and I'll just focus on what I'm really interested in.

Why are you lying? What benefit, exactly, do you think you're getting from posting obvious lies on the internet about a product you apparently have no interest in using anyway?
 
2013-03-19 02:19:04 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: Versus Chicago Electric, which makes

 puts their name on lousy Chinese power tools for Harbor Freight?

FTFY

The modern electric car market hasn't begun to prove it's viable yet, do we really need another contender?
 
2013-03-19 02:22:06 PM  

RatOmeter: The modern electric car market hasn't begun to prove it's viable yet, do we really need another contender?


So your theory is that efficacy will increase and the cost will decrease if fewer people are working on the problem and trying to make it competitive?
 
2013-03-19 02:23:11 PM  
Tesla must be pissed, since their roadster is a Lotus they kitted out with batteries.  If Lotus gets into the game directly they can just license a power train from GM or Ford and compete with Tesla.
 
2013-03-19 02:32:20 PM  

TIKIMAN87: Just remember liberals...

It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.

So enjoy your clean car! ROFL.


$3-4 a day for a Volt? On what planet? The Volt's battery pack is 16 kWh in size - 10.6 of which is usable for longevity. Draining the battery  results in 10 kWh of use for about 35 miles of electric-only range. In an area like Seattle (where electricity is $0.08 a kWh), that costs you $0.80. The only possible place it would cost $3 to fill would be in Hawaii, where electricity is often over $0.30 a kWh. Of course the percentage of savings would be similar, as the price of gasoline is also higher than the mainland.

I just came up with this graphic this morning. Bought an all electric car at the end of January and so far for the year have reduced my gasoline bill by 80% and have barely bumped up my electric bill. I still drive my truck on the weekends, but going from a 18-20mpg truck to an electric car saves me a bit over $200 a month in fuel. The 2013 numbers are a bit skewed in favor of gasoline, I was still commuting in my truck in January and the rooftop solar panels haven't really kicked in. By the end of the year, even when you account for the $199 lease of the electric car and insurance, I'll still be ahead each month.

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
/the facts speak for themselves
 
2013-03-19 02:33:52 PM  

skozlaw: TIKIMAN87: Not to mention it takes more energy to manufacture hybrid batteries than energy that an F-150 uses over 10 years.

It's plainly obvious that all of your claims thus far are intentional lies and they've been widely debunked on sites easily found via Google, so we'll ignore that bit and I'll just focus on what I'm really interested in.

Why are you lying? What benefit, exactly, do you think you're getting from posting obvious lies on the internet about a product you apparently have no interest in using anyway?


You can call my facts whatever you want, doesn't change what they are you troll.
 
2013-03-19 02:35:05 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Tesla must be pissed, since their roadster is a Lotus they kitted out with batteries.  If Lotus gets into the game directly they can just license a power train from GM or Ford and compete with Tesla.


I don't think they'll care much. The last Tesla roadster came off the assembly line in December of 2011.
 
2013-03-19 02:40:32 PM  

MrSteve007: TIKIMAN87: Just remember liberals...

It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.

So enjoy your clean car! ROFL.

$3-4 a day for a Volt? On what planet? The Volt's battery pack is 16 kWh in size - 10.6 of which is usable for longevity. Draining the battery  results in 10 kWh of use for about 35 miles of electric-only range. In an area like Seattle (where electricity is $0.08 a kWh), that costs you $0.80. The only possible place it would cost $3 to fill would be in Hawaii, where electricity is often over $0.30 a kWh. Of course the percentage of savings would be similar, as the price of gasoline is also higher than the mainland.

I just came up with this graphic this morning. Bought an all electric car at the end of January and so far for the year have reduced my gasoline bill by 80% and have barely bumped up my electric bill. I still drive my truck on the weekends, but going from a 18-20mpg truck to an electric car saves me a bit over $200 a month in fuel. The 2013 numbers are a bit skewed in favor of gasoline, I was still commuting in my truck in January and the rooftop solar panels haven't really kicked in. By the end of the year, even when you account for the $199 lease of the electric car and insurance, I'll still be ahead each month.

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 586x362]
/the facts speak for themselves


So the tax payer subsidy to pay for each volt plus the $30k car loan means nothing? It's not a waste of money?

And the 35 mile range is with no radio, ac, heat, headlights, windows up. you turn shiat on and the range drops to less than 20.
 
2013-03-19 02:43:23 PM  
If it doesn't look like crap (with lotus people behind it, it shouldn't) an it has a usable range (200mi) and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg i'll look into it. ICE/electric hybrids offer the best of both worlds at this point, but i'm always looking for my next daily driver.
 
2013-03-19 02:43:32 PM  
 
2013-03-19 02:47:32 PM  

TIKIMAN87: So the tax payer subsidy to pay for each volt plus the $30k car loan means nothing? It's not a waste of money?

And the 35 mile range is with no radio, ac, heat, headlights, windows up. you turn shiat on and the range drops to less than 20.


Well, I can't speak for the Volt's real world electric range - as I don't own one. I have test driven it a couple times - it was nicer than I expected for a Chevy. I drive an all electric Nissan Leaf. They cost about $21k these days (after that handy subsidy). I commute about 70 miles a day, frequently in freezing temperatures - and haven't had a problem yet.

I'm sure if I cranked the heat, packed in 5 people, and drove 90 mph over a mountain pass in the winter, that range would go down - but with a typical 35 mile (each way) commute, it works perfectly.
 
2013-03-19 02:47:57 PM  

TIKIMAN87: And the 35 mile range is with no radio, ac, heat, headlights, windows up. you turn shiat on and the range drops to less than 20.


Oh. Look. Another demonstrable lie.

Consumer Reports:


We've been getting the low end of the electric-only range, usually between 23 and 28 miles, undoubtedly due to this winter's deep freeze. The car's electric range is very susceptible to cold weather, primarily because the heater runs on electricity. We also found that an extended highway cruise shortens the electric range.
 
2013-03-19 02:52:11 PM  
You can buy a lot of gas for the extra $135,000 a hybrid costs over a standard gasoline powered sedan.
 
2013-03-19 02:52:29 PM  

TIKIMAN87: Just remember liberals...


It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.

So enjoy your clean car! ROFL.


All of it? How do they divert the electricity produced from the local wind farm away from my outlets? Can't they mix wind electricity and nucler electricity?
 
2013-03-19 02:54:33 PM  

ChrisDe: All of it? How do they divert the electricity produced from the local wind farm away from my outlets? Can't they mix wind electricity and nucler electricity?


MY GOD, man! Are you INSANE!? That would cause an explosion!
 
2013-03-19 02:57:39 PM  
You can't mix wind power with any other type of power. The power from the "other" source will over ride the wind power and turn the windmill into a giant fan.
 
2013-03-19 03:05:30 PM  
i3.ytimg.com
 
2013-03-19 03:06:32 PM  

MrSteve007: I'll still be ahead each month.


That's great, but, according to your graph, the asteroid path denoted by the dotted blue line is gonna put a significant dent in your plans in a few months!
 
2013-03-19 03:24:53 PM  
The first car will be publicly revealed at the Shanghai Motor Show next month.

I think I'll just breakout my uke and sing some Isham Jones/Gus Kahn songs
 
2013-03-19 03:34:07 PM  
the more electric cars, the sooner we can get away from hybrids
 
2013-03-19 03:40:12 PM  

skozlaw: RatOmeter: The modern electric car market hasn't begun to prove it's viable yet, do we really need another contender?

So your theory is that efficacy will increase and the cost will decrease if fewer people are working on the problem and trying to make it competitive?


I guess I could argue either side of it, but their entry into the car market at all, let alone electric car market just struck me as - um, bold, I guess.
 
2013-03-19 03:56:39 PM  

MrSteve007: I'm sure if I cranked the heat, packed in 5 people, and drove 90 mph over a mountain pass in the winter, that range would go down - but with a typical 35 mile (each way) commute, it works perfectly.


But you can't do all that plus tow a 6,000 lb boat on a trailer, therefore no one could ever want one ever. Thread over, we all have to buy Ford Excursions, which is what God meant for us to drive, or He wouldn't have given us two hands - one to steer, one to hold the coffee, and one to send texts on the cell phone.
 
2013-03-19 04:04:43 PM  

TIKIMAN87: and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.


Or solar, or wind, or tidal, or...
 
2013-03-19 04:13:20 PM  
Mr. Burns: I told you that the Automobile Fords were just a flash in the pan, and that they'd never replace the Detroit Salt Fords or the Timber Fords.
Smithers: You never told me, sir.
Mr. Burns: Now that you mention it, I told your great-great-grandfather, Willem Smithers. But I'm sure he remembered to pass it down to his children.
Smither: I never knew my Father, sir, because you killed him.
Mr. Burns: Oh, stop your whining. I gave you a job didn't I?
Smithers:  For life, sir. And I am eternally grateful. It's not every man who would set a one-year old to work in a salt mine.



Note: Look it up. Before the Automobile Fords, there were Timber Fords and Salt Fords. Windsor, Ontario, just across the river from Detroit is the source of Windsor Salt which provides most of Canada with its salt. I am the John Swartzwelder of Simpsons fans. I know my Old Timey shiat.
 
2013-03-19 04:14:04 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: TIKIMAN87: and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.

Or solar, or wind, or tidal, or...


www4.pictures.zimbio.com

Or Richard Simmons...
 
2013-03-19 04:15:51 PM  

StopLurkListen: MrSteve007: I'm sure if I cranked the heat, packed in 5 people, and drove 90 mph over a mountain pass in the winter, that range would go down - but with a typical 35 mile (each way) commute, it works perfectly.

But you can't do all that plus tow a 6,000 lb boat on a trailer, therefore no one could ever want one ever. Thread over, we all have to buy Ford Excursions, which is what God meant for us to drive, or He wouldn't have given us two hands - one to steer, one to hold the coffee, and one to send texts on the cell phone.


A week or so ago, I spent a whole day arguing with some people who essentially were saying that Electric Vehicles could "never become mainstream" until they would work for the guy who drives across the country wearing a catheter so he doesn't have to stop for piss breaks.
 
2013-03-19 04:28:30 PM  
www.dighist.org

Speaking of old timey shiat, there are two reasons to believe this is not a photo of Detroit. One, there are Chinese coolies wearing Chinese Coolie hats in the scene. Two, there is a camel.

There is only one place in the world where you would find Chinese Coolies and camels together.

Arizona.

Yes, this is a photo of the building of the railway through Arizona in the 1880s. See the piece of burning material to the right of the scene? It is a cardboard screen used to protect Chinese Coolies when laying dynamite. A charge of dynamite has obviously just been let off in the tunnel being constructed in the background. Ignore the Moon-Buggy near the centre-left. It's just a prop left over from Cecil B. Demille's faking of the First American Moon Landing in 1873 to beat the French to the Moon and Back.

Trust me. If I don't know something, I can make it up as fast as I can type. My Wikipedia articles are legendary. I created three states and a President.

This photo is clearly a photo of the building of the Mount Mel Blanc Tunnel in Kokomo County, Arizona, in 1886. Don't make me point out Krazy Kat and Ignatz (the Lil Darlink!) Mouse. Because I can see them clearly.

If I am wrong, why is the photo in Sepia?
 
2013-03-19 04:34:15 PM  
The new electric car will be powered by a sack of potatoes in the trunk.

Except in California and Florida, where oranges can be substituted for potatoes and are already conveniently available for purchase on highway on and off ramps ramps thanks to the tireless efforts of Ricky Martin and son.

True fact:  I couldn't remember his name so I Googled "celebrity latin singer gay" and found him at Number 2 on a list of famous gay people of color.
 
2013-03-19 04:34:38 PM  

Hollie Maea: TIKIMAN87: It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.

Two statements, two falsehoods!  Nice work.


Usable capacity of the Chevy Volt is 10.3 kWh.  Electricity in my state costs an average of $0.20 per kWh, so to fully charge a Volt would cost 10.3 x .20 = $2.06

A Nissan Leaf has a 24 kWh battery.  If it has 18 kWh of usable electricity, it would cost $3.60 to charge it up.

Also, something like 87% of US electrical generation is either coal, natural gas, or nuclear.

TIKIMAN87 is more right than he is wrong.
 
2013-03-19 04:38:54 PM  

Hollie Maea: A week or so ago, I spent a whole day arguing with some people who essentially were saying that Electric Vehicles could "never become mainstream" until they would work for the guy who drives across the country wearing a catheter so he doesn't have to stop for piss breaks.


That sounds about right. It's funny as the cost comes down rapidly and performance steadily increases for electric cars - the goalposts for detractors become more and more far fetched.

Within a couple years, they'll say that they need to be able to buy an electric car under $10k that can haul 8 people, navigate the Rubicon with a 5th wheel, and do it with 600 miles per charge, with charges happening in under 5 minutes. Until that day, they'll keep on driving their reliable '94 Kia.
 
2013-03-19 04:40:28 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: TIKIMAN87: and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.

Or solar, or wind, or tidal, or...


All combined only make up a few percent of the total energy grid.

Can't count solar since most electric cars would chrage at night.
 
2013-03-19 04:42:14 PM  
TIKIMAN87: 

You must be one of the most unsuccessful trolls on Fark.
 
2013-03-19 04:48:01 PM  

jjwars1: TIKIMAN87: 

You must be one of the most unsuccessful trolls on Fark.


Lol I'm amazed how fast liberals in this thread went full retard.
 
2013-03-19 04:57:07 PM  

TIKIMAN87: jjwars1: TIKIMAN87: 

You must be one of the most unsuccessful trolls on Fark.

Lol I'm amazed how fast liberals in this thread went full retard.


I'm not personally a fan of electric cars because of several of the reasons you listed, but that said the others in this thread have addressed inconsistencies in your argument to which you have only replied with personal attacks. When things like the Citycar and the Greenwheel bicycle can be produced cheaply and safely, which is currently on the way for 2015 or 2016, electric cars will be less of a novelty and more of a standard.

The concern of drain on the power grid is a bit silly, though. So much energy is wasted by current production that having mobility fuel directly tapped with city power would likely help keep the system running with a much greater degree of efficiency.
 
2013-03-19 05:08:34 PM  

dittybopper: Also, something like 87% of US electrical generation is either coal, natural gas, or nuclear.


Yep that's almost sport on. The official numbers for 2011 show:

42% coal
25% nat gas
19% nuke
12% was renewables (mostly hydro and wind)

Interestingly, the numbers will likely change quite a bit in 2012 and especially in 2013. Total wind power expansion is averaging about 25% a year - while coal power is rapidly in decline - and costs to transport coal has increased 50% over the past ten years.

Current nuclear capacity is suffering too, as there have been above normal number of outages in 2012 and 2013.

I wouldn't be surprised to see "renewable" output to surge to 20% of the grid by the end of 2015. Considering it was only about 7-8% a decade ago (almost all of which was hydro), that's pretty impressive growth.
 
2013-03-19 05:17:59 PM  

brantgoose: [www.dighist.org image 840x344]

Speaking of old timey shiat, there are two reasons to believe this is not a photo of Detroit. One, there are Chinese coolies wearing Chinese Coolie hats in the scene. Two, there is a camel.

There is only one place in the world where you would find Chinese Coolies and camels together.

Arizona.

Yes, this is a photo of the building of the railway through Arizona in the 1880s. See the piece of burning material to the right of the scene? It is a cardboard screen used to protect Chinese Coolies when laying dynamite. A charge of dynamite has obviously just been let off in the tunnel being constructed in the background. Ignore the Moon-Buggy near the centre-left. It's just a prop left over from Cecil B. Demille's faking of the First American Moon Landing in 1873 to beat the French to the Moon and Back.

Trust me. If I don't know something, I can make it up as fast as I can type. My Wikipedia articles are legendary. I created three states and a President.

This photo is clearly a photo of the building of the Mount Mel Blanc Tunnel in Kokomo County, Arizona, in 1886. Don't make me point out Krazy Kat and Ignatz (the Lil Darlink!) Mouse. Because I can see them clearly.

If I am wrong, why is the photo in Sepia?


Also, there's a motorcycle in the photo.
 
2013-03-19 05:19:44 PM  

dittybopper: Hollie Maea: TIKIMAN87: It costs $3-4 to charge a Volt each day.. and all that electricity comes from either coal, Natural gas, or nucler.

Two statements, two falsehoods!  Nice work.

Usable capacity of the Chevy Volt is 10.3 kWh.  Electricity in my state costs an average of $0.20 per kWh, so to fully charge a Volt would cost 10.3 x .20 = $2.06

A Nissan Leaf has a 24 kWh battery.  If it has 18 kWh of usable electricity, it would cost $3.60 to charge it up.

Also, something like 87% of US electrical generation is either coal, natural gas, or nuclear.

TIKIMAN87 is more right than he is wrong.


Well, since you are going based on your corner of the country, I'll do the same.  Electricity in my state costs an average of $0.08 per kWh, so to fully charge a Volt would cost 10.3 X 0.08 = $0.82.  To charge the Nissan Leaf would cost $1.92.
Also, something like 50 percent of the generation in my area comes from Hydro.

TIKIMAN87 is more wrong than right.

Or we could be fair and use national average of 11 cents per Kilowatt hour.  The Volt still only costs $1.13 to charge. So his statement is about as accurate as stating that a car that gets 60 miles to a gallon gets about 20 to 25 miles per gallon (ie, not accurate at all).

It is true that hydro and renewables only make up 15 percent of the nation's grid.  That number is growing rapidly, and the coal number is skewed quite a bit by the northeast.  At any rate, it's not the least bit accurate to say that "all" of our power comes from those three sources (also, what's he got against Nuclear?).

If I thought he were capable of rational thought, I might ask him what he thinks the source is for the electricity that is used to refine crude oil into gasoline.

TIKIMAN87 is more full of shiat than anything.
 
2013-03-19 05:22:22 PM  

TIKIMAN87: Can't count solar since most electric cars would chrage at night.


Ignoring for a moment how pants-on-head stupid this statement is, if we posit that the charging happens at night, then we have to take into account the huge amount of excess power capability there is at night due to the fact that large power plants such as coal and oil plants cannot throttle down at night.  Many places you can get time of day metering and get power for 4 cents a kilowatt hour at night.
 
2013-03-19 05:27:13 PM  

Hollie Maea: TIKIMAN87: Can't count solar since most electric cars would chrage at night.

Ignoring for a moment how pants-on-head stupid this statement is, if we posit that the charging happens at night, then we have to take into account the huge amount of excess power capability there is at night due to the fact that large power plants such as coal and oil plants cannot throttle down at night.  Many places you can get time of day metering and get power for 4 cents a kilowatt hour at night.


You're a towel...
 
2013-03-19 05:34:19 PM  

Hollie Maea: Many places you can get time of day metering and get power for 4 cents a kilowatt hour at night.


I moved, and signed up for a plan that offers free electricity from 10PM to 6AM.  I time-shifted almost all appliance use (washer, dishwasher, pool pump/chlorinator, etc) to run off-hours, and it's cut our electric bill in half.

I work from home, so an electric car as a secondary vehicle/grocery getter etc would make perfect sense.

Charge it at night for free!
 
2013-03-19 05:58:07 PM  

dittybopper: TIKIMAN87 is more right than he is wrong.


He's not. It's already been covered. I even posted links to numerical breakdowns.

He's lying and so are you.
 
2013-03-19 06:12:56 PM  
Pure electric cars won't replace gas powered cars any time soon.  There are three main problems:

1. The fact that they cost ten thousands dollars or more than an equivalent gas powered car eats up any savings in the cost of using electricity over gasoline, at least in the first 200,000 miles or so.  (A Nissan Leaf (the only "mainstream" pure electric car) costs $21,300 even factoring in a $7,500 rebate from the Feds ($28,800 before); a Nissan Versa sedan costs $11,990.  Both are about the same size.)
2. You can't go on a road trip with them.
3. You need to have a place to charge them (IE, most apartment dwellers or people with only on-street parking can't buy one; also, if your commute is more than 50% of the range, you need to have a place to charge them at work).

Now, hybrids (either traditional or plug ins) are the way to go.  They have much smaller batteries, so the cost premium is only a couple thousand or so over a traditional car (base Prius is $24,200; base Camry is $22,235 (base Camry Hyrbid (which has more features standard) is $26,140)), and have none of the disavantages in #2 or #3.  Note that the Volt doesn't have the disadvantages, but it still costs a fark ton more (starting price of $31,465 (only seats 4); Chevy Spark seats 5 and costs $12,185).

They are fine on the luxury end, where a $10-20k premium is no big deal for a weekend toy.  Tesla has found a market niche.  But few middle class people are going to pay extra for a more limited (no road trips, must have a place to charge them) car.
 
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