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(MassLive)   How long does war keep costing America? The government is still paying benefits for service in the Civil War   (masslive.com) divider line 105
    More: Interesting, U.S. state abbreviations, U.S., Spanish-American War, Agent Orange, Korean War, relatives, Vietnam War  
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15079 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2013 at 1:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-19 09:57:40 AM  
The Civil War payments are going to two children of veterans - one in North Carolina and one in Tennessee- each for $876 per year.

$1,752!! F*cking takers....
 
2013-03-19 10:03:33 AM  
I seem to remember that the last wife of a Civil War veteran died just a couple of years ago. Or was that "the wife of a civil war vet"?
 
2013-03-19 10:10:14 AM  
It's interesting, it shows some history is closer than we might think.
 
2013-03-19 10:28:39 AM  
That's not unheard of. At age 86, Juanita Tudor Lowrey is the daughter of a Civil War veteran. Her father, Hugh Tudor, fought in the Union army. After his first wife died, Tudor was 73 when he remarried her 33-year-old mother in 1920. Lowrey was born in 1926.

Lowrey, who lives in Kearney, Mo., suspects the marriage might have been one of convenience, with her father looking for a housekeeper and her mother looking for some security. He died a couple years after she was born, and Lowrey received pension benefits until she was 18.


Damn. Dude was a playa.
 
2013-03-19 12:19:20 PM  
Step 1: Get poor folk to fight for you
Step 2: Pay lip service to their service
Step 3: Reneg on benefits to give yourself tax breaks
Step 4: No Uncertainty or ??, goto Step 5
Step 5: Profit!
 
2013-03-19 12:28:37 PM  
Don't worry the wars pay for themselves in increased productivity. It really gets the economy moving.
 
2013-03-19 12:38:25 PM  
We technically still have bonds outstanding from the 1700s.  They can't be taken off the books because they can still be redeemed, but they are most likely to be long since lost.
 
2013-03-19 01:16:42 PM  
It seems like a scam when adult children of vets are still receiving benefits well into their 20s.
 
2013-03-19 01:16:45 PM  
It's the gift that keeps on giving.
 
2013-03-19 01:18:12 PM  
Our Civil War?
 
2013-03-19 01:18:20 PM  
I'm OK with paying out benefits to vets and their children for the next 100 years.  Send the kids to college while we're at it.

I'd rather we'd never gone to war in the first place though.
 
2013-03-19 01:18:21 PM  
Time for Republican budget cuts?
 
2013-03-19 01:18:34 PM  

CygnusDarius: It's the gift that keeps on giving.


You're thinking of the Jelly of the Month Club.
 
2013-03-19 01:19:37 PM  
But Bush and Co. said Iraq would pay for itself.
 
2013-03-19 01:21:27 PM  

dryknife: CygnusDarius: It's the gift that keeps on giving.

You're thinking of the Jelly of the Month Club.

herpes.
 
2013-03-19 01:21:32 PM  
All of the people receiving these make up part of Romney's 47%.
 
2013-03-19 01:22:12 PM  

flamingboard: But Bush and Co. said Iraq would pay for itself.


Reference needed.
 
2013-03-19 01:23:09 PM  
I thought that finally ended when the last Confederate "widow" died a few years back.
 
2013-03-19 01:24:58 PM  

wickedragon: I seem to remember that the last wife of a Civil War veteran died just a couple of years ago. Or was that "the wife of a civil war vet"?


Maudie Hopkins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudie_Hopkins

She was 19, he was 86. The Arkansas legislature passed a law in 1937 banning women who married Civil War veterans (72 years after the war) from getting a widow's pension, and they expanded it to state no pensions at all for women born after 1870. Presumably the others were okay.

This wasn't that uncommon- easy way to make sure someone was taken care of, even if the family didn't have any money of its own.

It's frustrating from a genealogical standpoint- unless you can prove the marriage, it throws you off. An age gap like that is typically grandparent-grandchild, not husband and wife. I chased one set for months before finding the pension paperwork.

Laws like this make for interesting situations. My great-great-great-grandfather owned a hill in his small town, and one day, the steel mill wanted to lay a railroad track down. He agreed, as long as there was a fee paid in perpetuity. It was a nickel a car.

We still get a check once a year. It's not much now, just about twenty bucks since Wheeling Steel doesn't use it much, but it's neat.
 
2013-03-19 01:25:19 PM  
Jesus. How much money does Larry King need?!?
 
2013-03-19 01:26:03 PM  
I got no problem paying pension to the children of Union soldiers.  Just so long as no money is going to any children of traitors from the south.  In fact, the children of Confederates should be taxed to pay for the pension for the children of the American soldiers.
 
2013-03-19 01:26:05 PM  
Just..wow. Civil war spouses. That's amazing, considering it was two centuries back. I wonder what this means to the future since humans are living longer and longer.
 
2013-03-19 01:26:24 PM  

honk: Time for Republican budget cuts?


If they get back in power they will start in on attacks on VA benefits again.
//We need to fund our current fighting force, spending money on guys who lost legs to roadside bombs is just donating to the 47%.
 
2013-03-19 01:26:55 PM  

That Magnificent Bastard!: flamingboard: But Bush and Co. said Iraq would pay for itself.

Reference needed.


Here's a reference for the 'and Co.' part - Paul Wolfowitz, congressional testimony on March 27, 2003:

There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.
 
2013-03-19 01:27:26 PM  
VA benes for diabetes and heart disease?  Sounds highly specious.
 
2013-03-19 01:32:19 PM  
I have one relative who fought in the Civil War who never received his benefits because his name was spelled 3 different ways...
 
2013-03-19 01:32:20 PM  
TFA: ""Without question, I would affluence-test all of those people," Simpson said."

If you want to do a database query against tax returns, knock yourself out.
If you want an accurate examination and audits? That shiat's gonna cost more than you save.
 
2013-03-19 01:33:36 PM  

The Southern Dandy: I got no problem paying pension to the children of Union soldiers.  Just so long as no money is going to any children of traitors from the south.  In fact, the children of Confederates should be taxed to pay for the pension for the children of the American soldiers.



In this weeks episode of Idiot or Troll, we find this interesting comment.
 
2013-03-19 01:38:04 PM  
Still waiting for: You mean the "War of Northern Aggression" don't you?


Sorry...It just seemed so quiet in here.
 
2013-03-19 01:38:41 PM  

karnal: The Southern Dandy: I got no problem paying pension to the children of Union soldiers.  Just so long as no money is going to any children of traitors from the south.  In fact, the children of Confederates should be taxed to pay for the pension for the children of the American soldiers.


In this weeks episode of Idiot or Troll, we find this interesting comment.


I choose both, karnal.
 
2013-03-19 01:38:56 PM  

ChipNASA: dryknife: CygnusDarius: It's the gift that keeps on giving.

You're thinking of the Jelly of the Month Club. herpes.


And war, just like herpes, it's not something you're thrilling to have.
 
2013-03-19 01:39:21 PM  

olddeegee: Still waiting for: You mean the "War of Northern Aggression" don't you?


Sorry...It just seemed so quiet in here.


My family always referred to it as "the late unpleasantness."
 
2013-03-19 01:39:40 PM  
We also pay $174k per year to every one of our senators and representatives.

If i remember correctly; we pay them $174k a year for life. 435 current representatives, plus 100 senators for a total of 535 people guaranteed to get $174k for life. That's $93 million a year. And that's just for the people currently in congress. We also pay benefits to their families.
 
2013-03-19 01:40:53 PM  

karnal: The Southern Dandy: I got no problem paying pension to the children of Union soldiers.  Just so long as no money is going to any children of traitors from the south.  In fact, the children of Confederates should be taxed to pay for the pension for the children of the American soldiers.


In this weeks episode of Idiot or Troll, we find this interesting comment.


Just idiot then, because I'm not trolling.
 
2013-03-19 01:41:31 PM  
Robert Heinlein told the story of a drummer boy who served in the War of 1812 at age 12.

When he was 65, he married a girl who was 15, and she lived to be 85.

So the last pension for the war of 1812 was paid in 1935, 121 years after the war was over.
 
2013-03-19 01:43:12 PM  
Alan Simpson, a former Republican senator and veteran who co-chaired President Barack Obama's deficit committee in 2010, said government leaders working to limit the national debt should make sure that survivors of veterans need the money they are receiving.

"Without question, I would affluence-test all of those people," Simpson said.


How true! Because as we all know, people who join the military are all very wealthy and serve out of pure patriotism.

Trust me, as a retired service member, I'm not getting rich off the benefits I earned while on active duty. Yes, it was my choice to do 20+ years, and I didn't do it just for the retirement pay and medical. But, it was nice knowing that in exchange for my service I would get some benefits (especially since they were promised to us to get us to the 20 years).

 Are there people milking the system? Yes. But that is true in any program (government or civilian).

If Congress wants to do this, why not affluence check all Senators and Congressmen? I seriously doubt that any of them would give up their benefits.
 
2013-03-19 01:43:14 PM  
In other news.

A friend of mine is still trying to get his missing half of an ankle declared as a handicap.  Instead of a scar, according to the medical records.

Several of the VA people he's talked to over the years have told them that he doesn't look handicapped.  He walks straight. He doesn't slur his speech.  He at the least wears nice jeans, a collared shirt, and good tennis shoes.  He's been told that because he dresses neat, doesn't slouch or slur, never seems to walk without any issues.  In spite of the wooden insert in his shoe that causes pain over time.

That they can't do anything.

They have told him that if he wants, they can prescribe him 3 or 4 drugs to help him dumb down so the VA will take him seriously.
 
2013-03-19 01:44:38 PM  
I'm a fiscal conservative, but the government (i.e., we) should fully honor all the promises to vets. If it was a costly promise, that's our problem, not the vet's problem.

Going forward, maybe we should adjust the promises that are made. But past
 
2013-03-19 01:45:31 PM  
... promises should be honored.

/stupid mobile interface.
 
2013-03-19 01:45:35 PM  
I prefer to provide the money to them than to persons who destroyed their lives through lack of high school education, drugs and or unsupportable pregnancies.
 
GBB
2013-03-19 01:46:03 PM  

Paris1127: I have one relative who fought in the Civil War who never received his benefits because his name was spelled 3 different ways...


Puerto Ricans fought in the Civil War?
 
2013-03-19 01:49:23 PM  
Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?
 
2013-03-19 01:52:02 PM  

Taylor Mental: Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?


There are far more lazy white people on welfare than brown people.  Fact!
 
2013-03-19 01:53:01 PM  
Bermuda59:
If Congress wants to do this, why not affluence check all Senators and Congressmen? I seriously doubt that any of them would give up their benefits.

^^ This ^^

Let's nip the "takers" in the bud and take out the most expensive accounts first. Then I'm perfectly willing to discuss the rest.
 
2013-03-19 01:54:10 PM  
I've never been paid for what the Federal Army did to my family, My birth great - great grandmother was killed during the war of northern aggression. Her and several other wives of suspected bushwhackers were being held in an old prison in Independace, MO. The prison collapsed and killed multi women. The Federals blamed the ladies saying they tried to escape.
 
2013-03-19 01:54:13 PM  
Pensions should only be paid for disability if the veteran was drafted. If you volunteered, wtf did you expect?

How fair is it to concurrently collect a military retirement pension, a va pension and social security disability pension?
Vets with IBS are laughing all the way to the bank.
 
2013-03-19 01:54:55 PM  

The Southern Dandy: karnal: The Southern Dandy: I got no problem paying pension to the children of Union soldiers.  Just so long as no money is going to any children of traitors from the south.  In fact, the children of Confederates should be taxed to pay for the pension for the children of the American soldiers.


In this weeks episode of Idiot or Troll, we find this interesting comment.

Just idiot then, because I'm not trolling.



Then the truth shall set you free...


When will the people get tired of all the mindless government spending?
 
2013-03-19 01:55:07 PM  

iheartscotch: We also pay $174k per year to every one of our senators and representatives.

If i remember correctly; we pay them $174k a year for life. 435 current representatives, plus 100 senators for a total of 535 people guaranteed to get $174k for life. That's $93 million a year. And that's just for the people currently in congress. We also pay benefits to their families.


Update: there is at least 10,000 former congress critters running around. Or, approx. $1,740,000,000 per year.
 
2013-03-19 01:56:23 PM  

iheartscotch: If i remember correctly; we pay them $174k a year for life. 435 current representatives, plus 100 senators for a total of 535 people guaranteed to get $174k for life. That's $93 million a year. And that's just for the people currently in congress. We also pay benefits to their families.


You don't remember correctly.
 
2013-03-19 01:56:39 PM  
I am a disabled veteran. I broke my body in service to this great nation and I deserve all of the few benefits I get.

Thankfully (if one can be thankful for such things) my service connected disabilities are all physical. While I have my challenges the guys I see at the VA with mental problems are the ones the nation can't possibly do enough for or be thankful enough to.

I know, disability is different from pensions but this is Fark. Rant rant rant!

/I get a very small amount of money each month and free healthcare for life.
//Thanks taxpayers!
 
2013-03-19 01:57:18 PM  

verydrab: If you volunteered, wtf did you expect?


I'll handle this one- how about "the benefits that were promised, as an enticement to both initially volunteer and subsequently keep volunteering"?
 
2013-03-19 01:57:55 PM  

The Southern Dandy: Taylor Mental: Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?

There are far more lazy white people on welfare than brown people.  Fact!

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

 
2013-03-19 01:58:08 PM  

olddinosaur: Robert Heinlein told the story of a drummer boy who served in the War of 1812 at age 12.

When he was 65, he married a girl who was 15, and she lived to be 85.

So the last pension for the war of 1812 was paid in 1935, 121 years after the war was over.


Knowing Heinlein, the drummer boy was their son.
 
2013-03-19 02:02:51 PM  

verydrab: Pensions should only be paid for disability if the veteran was drafted. If you volunteered, wtf did you expect?


So by this logic, if you suffer a work related injury in a civilian job, you shouldn't receive compensation unless you were forced to work at that company.
Actually most in the GOP would agree with this....
 
2013-03-19 02:06:43 PM  

CygnusDarius: ChipNASA: dryknife: CygnusDarius: It's the gift that keeps on giving.

You're thinking of the Jelly of the Month Club. herpes.

And war, just like herpes, it's not something you're thrilling to have.


Just the other day the doc told me I had herpes. I told him that's fine, as long as I don't have hispes, it shouldnt' affect me.
 
2013-03-19 02:08:16 PM  

iheartscotch: We also pay $174k per year to every one of our senators and representatives.

If i remember correctly; we pay them $174k a year for life. 435 current representatives, plus 100 senators for a total of 535 people guaranteed to get $174k for life. That's $93 million a year. And that's just for the people currently in congress. We also pay benefits to their families.


You remember incorrectly.
Senators, representatives, etc. are vested in the Federal Employees' Retirement System (FERS) after 30 years of Federal and elected service if between 55 and 59, 10 years in Congress (if under 60) or 5 years in combined Congressional and other Federal service, if over age 62.  The pension is deferred until the member reaches the required age if the member achieves the required number of years but leaves Congress before the required age.  The member cannot have left service because of expulsion or resignation.
The pension plan is funded by an allotment taken out of the salaries of members of Congress, i.e., it comes from the $174k that current members are making.
The retirement amount is based on a formula that varies from a theoretical low of 8.5% of the average salary of the final three years, to a statutory maximum of 80% of that value, if someone managed to stay in office for 66 years.  If a member stayed in for 20 years, it would be 34%.
They also pay into, and can receive, Social Security.
Source
You can argue about whether this is too generous, but don't spread untrue statements.  By doing so, you undermine the legitimacy of the discussion.
 
2013-03-19 02:08:17 PM  

wickedragon: I seem to remember that the last wife of a Civil War veteran died just a couple of years ago. Or was that "the wife of a civil war vet"?


She must have been 140 years old if she was born around that time!
 
2013-03-19 02:23:37 PM  

The Southern Dandy: Taylor Mental: Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?

There are far more lazy white people on welfare than brown people.  Fact!


White? Just down on their luck.
 
2013-03-19 02:24:23 PM  

That Magnificent Bastard!: flamingboard: But Bush and Co. said Iraq would pay for itself.

Reference needed.


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2008/09/25/29750/bailout-payback/

second paragraph-
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/stiglitz200804

Second isn't a great reference but you get the point.
Google search brings up quite a few pages on this very issue.
Perhaps your memory is just being helpful?
 
2013-03-19 02:24:52 PM  

GBB: Paris1127: I have one relative who fought in the Civil War who never received his benefits because his name was spelled 3 different ways...

Puerto Ricans fought in the Civil War?


What?
 
2013-03-19 02:25:49 PM  

Bermuda59: verydrab: Pensions should only be paid for disability if the veteran was drafted. If you volunteered, wtf did you expect?

So by this logic, if you suffer a work related injury in a civilian job, you shouldn't receive compensation unless you were forced to work at that company.
Actually most in the GOP would agree with this....


Actually, there might be some logic to that if you consider the criteria for disability awards. If there's a job available in your region which you are minimally suited for you will be turned down for benefits, whether you volunteer or not. So in a sense, yes, you are forced to work for someone. Doesn't even matter if they want to hire you or not.

I only mention this because most people criticizing disability programs have no clue what the approval process entails. They see the endless commercials on teevee where huge law firms advertise for clients and think "gotdamn lawyers!"  What they fail to consider is there wouldn't be a need for lawyers if the process weren't so long and arduous. They think Obama has hired hundreds of thousands ex Acorn workers to distribute coupons to drug addicts on every street corner in Chicago to be redeemed without question at Social Security offices.

Really, that's what they think.
 
2013-03-19 02:27:48 PM  

iheartscotch: iheartscotch: We also pay $174k per year to every one of our senators and representatives.

If i remember correctly; we pay them $174k a year for life. 435 current representatives, plus 100 senators for a total of 535 people guaranteed to get $174k for life. That's $93 million a year. And that's just for the people currently in congress. We also pay benefits to their families.

Update: there is at least 10,000 former congress critters running around. Or, approx. $1,740,000,000 per year.


I would recommend you don't believe the nonsense and lies people pass around Facebook without doing a little research yourself.  Nothing you posted is true.
 
2013-03-19 02:30:14 PM  

Ned Stark: The Southern Dandy: Taylor Mental: Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?

There are far more lazy white people on welfare than brown people.  Fact!

White? Just down on their luck.


Oh that's right.  I forgot.  It's similar to the difference between "looting" and "finding".

www.huffingtonpost.com
 
2013-03-19 02:35:18 PM  
My father was a Korean War veteran, and I am not getting one thin, thin, dime from the government. I must be doing it wrong.
 
2013-03-19 02:40:27 PM  

cwolf20: Several of the VA people he's talked to over the years have told them that he doesn't look handicapped.  He walks straight. He doesn't slur his speech.  He at the least wears nice jeans, a collared shirt, and good tennis shoes.  He's been told that because he dresses neat, doesn't slouch or slur, never seems to walk without any issues.  In spite of the wooden insert in his shoe that causes pain over time.

That they can't do anything.


<csb>
Am a retired Navy O3 with a service-connected disability: fused ankle on the left, BK prosthesis on the right (plane crash).  Worked at the Pentagon as a GS-9 in 1974.  Applied for a handicapped parking permit.  Had to appear before a retired Army physician staffing the Pentagon clinic to get it.  I walked into his office (no cane, no limp).  He sneered and said, "Hmmph, looks like you walk OK to me."  Right away I knew I had him.  I visibly reacted; widened my eyes; acted insulted; said, "I do my best!"  He was visibly embarrassed.  Signed my application without a word.  Haven't worked at the Pentagon since 1976, but I still have the plastic-laminated pass.
</csb>
 
2013-03-19 02:41:13 PM  

Pick: My father was a Korean War veteran, and I am not getting one thin, thin, dime from the government. I must be doing it wrong.


Yep.  You have to go back in time and kill your father on the battlefield.  That's how it's done.
 
2013-03-19 02:41:15 PM  
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all
 
2013-03-19 02:50:31 PM  
"Without question, I would affluence-test all of those people," Simpson said.

While we're at it let's affluence-test all sitting and retired Congressmen, you withered piece foreskin
 
2013-03-19 02:53:32 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: olddeegee: Still waiting for: You mean the "War of Northern Aggression" don't you?


Sorry...It just seemed so quiet in here.

My family always referred to it as "the late unpleasantness."


That has got to be the most southern thing I have heard all day. I couldn't help but read it in a genteel accent.

I went to elementary school in rural Alabama in the 90's and they taught us that it was the War of Northern Aggression.
 
2013-03-19 02:56:02 PM  
Wars are financed by "loans" - at interest. National debt.

We'll be paying for our little excursions into Iraq and Afghanistan for a L-O-N-G time to come.
 
2013-03-19 03:01:09 PM  

verydrab: How fair is it to concurrently collect a military retirement pension, a va pension and social security disability pension?
Vets with IBS are laughing all the way to the bank.


I don't know what you mean by "fair," but your hypothetical---concurrent military retirement, VA pension, and SSDI---is questionable.  I currently draw both a military and VA pension, but---and it's a big but---the Navy pension is offset dollar-for-dollar by the VA pension.  The net amount is the same. (Why both?  On retirement, I opted to take the VA pension on the subjective feeling that it would mean less burden on the Operations and Maintenance Navy appropriation.)

There was a brief time when I also qualified for (and collected) SSDI.  As soon as I got a job, I called the SSA; told 'em about the job; and the SSDI stopped.  You only get SSDI if you're too disabled to work.

I Googled for IBS and found "irritable bowel syndrome."  When I was in the military health care system (Oct 1968--Sep 1969), IBS wasn't grounds for disability.  I currently volunteer once a week at the VA's Community Living and Rehabilitation Center (i.e., nursing home) in Baltimore, in the physical therapy department.  Of course I can't be sure if the patients there have IBS, but they do have other visible signs of infirmity.  And if they regularly visited the bank, whether laughing or serious, they wouldn't be patients at the CLRC.
 
2013-03-19 03:03:24 PM  
My paternal grandfather was a WWI vet.  He was married twice.  He had 4 children with his first wife.  After his first wife died, he remarried a much younger woman (my grandmother) and had 4 more children    My father is the youngest of those 8.  My grandfather was in his 50's when my father was born.    My grandmother continued to collect a WWI pension until she died in the 1970s.
 
2013-03-19 03:03:59 PM  

meat0918: I'm OK with paying out benefits to vets and their children for the next 100 years.  Send the kids to college while we're at it.

I'd rather we'd never gone to war in the first place though.




They are. It's called Veterans Retraining Assistance Program (VRAP).

But they stopped education benefits for active duty Marines and Army, as far as I know.
 
2013-03-19 03:10:19 PM  

The Southern Dandy: Ned Stark: The Southern Dandy: Taylor Mental: Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?

There are far more lazy white people on welfare than brown people.  Fact!

White? Just down on their luck.

Oh that's right.  I forgot.  It's similar to the difference between "looting" and "finding".

[www.huffingtonpost.com image 500x386]


Yeah....good example. The top picture show someone who took non-necessary items, the bottom picture shows that they took bread to eat. Big difference.
 
2013-03-19 03:12:24 PM  
 
2013-03-19 03:41:27 PM  

cwolf20: In other news.

A friend of mine is still trying to get his missing half of an ankle declared as a handicap.  Instead of a scar, according to the medical records.

Several of the VA people he's talked to over the years have told them that he doesn't look handicapped.  He walks straight. He doesn't slur his speech.  He at the least wears nice jeans, a collared shirt, and good tennis shoes.  He's been told that because he dresses neat, doesn't slouch or slur, never seems to walk without any issues.  In spite of the wooden insert in his shoe that causes pain over time.

That they can't do anything.

They have told him that if he wants, they can prescribe him 3 or 4 drugs to help him dumb down so the VA will take him seriously.


Only in Tennessee is there concern of slurred speech from an ankle injury, no doubt from complications of foot in mouth diseases.
 
2013-03-19 03:46:25 PM  

indarwinsshadow: Just..wow. Civil war spouses. That's amazing, considering it was two centuries back. I wonder what this means to the future since humans are living longer and longer.


Well, there aren't any living civil war spouses anymore, but there are living kids of veterans. That's not actually all that surprising when you think about it. I'm 32 but my great-grandparents were born during the civil war, and while it's not every day that you've got someone my age whose great-grandparents go that far back, it's not all that uncommon (and there were no dramatically younger wives involved in my family tree).
 
2013-03-19 03:50:55 PM  

rynthetyn: indarwinsshadow: Just..wow. Civil war spouses. That's amazing, considering it was two centuries back. I wonder what this means to the future since humans are living longer and longer.

Well, there aren't any living civil war spouses anymore, but there are living kids of veterans. That's not actually all that surprising when you think about it. I'm 32 but my great-grandparents were born during the civil war, and while it's not every day that you've got someone my age whose great-grandparents go that far back, it's not all that uncommon (and there were no dramatically younger wives involved in my family tree).




Sounds like a lot of "living in sin." I approve.

Great grand parents were still back in their poor, and subjugated countries, during the civil war. So I really love paying for this.
 
2013-03-19 03:52:31 PM  
At age 86, Juanita Tudor Lowrey is the daughter of a Civil War veteran. Her father, Hugh Tudor, fought in the Union army. After his first wife died, Tudor was 73 when he remarried her 33-year-old mother in 1920. Lowrey was born in 1926.

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-19 04:20:15 PM  

ferretman: The Southern Dandy: Ned Stark: The Southern Dandy: Taylor Mental: Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?

There are far more lazy white people on welfare than brown people.  Fact!

White? Just down on their luck.

Oh that's right.  I forgot.  It's similar to the difference between "looting" and "finding".

[www.huffingtonpost.com image 500x386]

Yeah....good example. The top picture show someone who took non-necessary items, the bottom picture shows that they took bread to eat. Big difference.


Top picture=brown person. Bottom picture=white people. Conclusion=brown people are able to survive on the nutritional sustenance of electronic appliances tradeable at the nearest crack dealer.

White people, on the other hand, are all issued debit cards with unlimited funds at birth. In the event of an emergency they simply eat a few crumbs of white bread (well, what did you expect?) until they can find the nearest ATM.
 
2013-03-19 04:24:16 PM  

cwolf20: A friend of mine is still trying to get his missing half of an ankle declared as a handicap. Instead of a scar, according to the medical records.

Several of the VA people he's talked to over the years have told them that he doesn't look handicapped. He walks straight. He doesn't slur his speech. He at the least wears nice jeans, a collared shirt, and good tennis shoes. He's been told that because he dresses neat, doesn't slouch or slur, never seems to walk without any issues. In spite of the wooden insert in his shoe that causes pain over time.

That they can't do anything.


OK, check it out, here's the no-shiat way to get the system to work for your buddy.

First and foremost, he needs to make an appointment to be seen IN PERSON at a VA clinic. He's not going to ue his own doctor's records for anything, he needs to go to the appropriate VA facility. And here are the key words he's going to need to use: "service-connected" and "compensation and pension". As in he needs to go to a clinic to be seen for a service-connected injury, for which he is seeking compensation and pension.

While taking that step, he also needs to insure that there will be X-rays taken as part of his appointment. I can't stress that enough- there MUST be a radiology consult if he wants to show that he's missing something.

Finally- and this is slightly less important- the night before he goes, he needs to drink. Not enough that he won't be functional the next day, but some. And it needs to be something very specific: cheap gin. There will be a certain aura about him the next day that will add to his gravitas. And yes, I'm dead serious on that.

If you have any other questions, EIP. In case it's not, it's my name at ultrafark dot com.
 
2013-03-19 04:27:24 PM  

Profedius: I prefer to provide the money to them than to persons who destroyed their lives through lack of high school education, drugs and or unsupportable pregnancies.


I don't think those two groups are mutually exclusive.
 
2013-03-19 04:31:46 PM  

The Southern Dandy: I got no problem paying pension to the children of Union soldiers.  Just so long as no money is going to any children of traitors from the south.  In fact, the children of Confederates should be taxed to pay for the pension for the children of the American soldiers.


Um. with that name I am going to have to go with
notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-03-19 04:39:40 PM  

tarheel07: Profedius: I prefer to provide the money to them than to persons who destroyed their lives through lack of high school education, drugs and or unsupportable pregnancies.

I don't think those two groups are mutually exclusive.




I agree but I inserted the benefit of doubt with the "and or" insert anyone of the three into a person's life and the percentage chance of the other two becoming true greatly increases.
 
2013-03-19 04:52:34 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: It seems like a scam when adult children of vets are still receiving benefits well into their 20s.


You're right; the government scammed you when it executed a self-serving contract and left you on the hook for it.  But it's an isolated event; nothing to get excited about.
 
2013-03-19 05:10:19 PM  

enry: olddinosaur: Robert Heinlein told the story of a drummer boy who served in the War of 1812 at age 12.

When he was 65, he married a girl who was 15, and she lived to be 85.

So the last pension for the war of 1812 was paid in 1935, 121 years after the war was over.

Knowing Heinlein, the drummer boy was their son.


Ha! I only came across that story for the first time a few days ago

Link All You Zombiesink
 
2013-03-19 05:22:52 PM  

Taylor Mental: The Southern Dandy: Taylor Mental: Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?

There are far more lazy white people on welfare than brown people.  Fact!

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 258x196]


There are far more industrious brown people on welfare who don't pay taxes and send their earnings over the border to their families. Fact!
 
2013-03-19 05:25:57 PM  

Pick: My father was a Korean War veteran, and I am not getting one thin, thin, dime from the government. I must be doing it wrong.


It'll get you membership at your local VFW as an auxiliary member! You just need a copy of his DD-214.
 
2013-03-19 05:44:51 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Pick: My father was a Korean War veteran, and I am not getting one thin, thin, dime from the government. I must be doing it wrong.

It'll get you membership at your local VFW as an auxiliary member! You just need a copy of his DD-214.


Really? Im a 40 yr old child of a ww2 vet. This sounds good!
 
2013-03-19 05:55:38 PM  
You are still paying a "temporary" tax whenever you buy beer to fund the Union army for the civil war.

You are still paying a "temporary" tax to fund the continental army for the revolutionary war everytime you buy distilled spirits.
 
2013-03-19 06:11:24 PM  

rynthetyn: indarwinsshadow: Just..wow. Civil war spouses. That's amazing, considering it was two centuries back. I wonder what this means to the future since humans are living longer and longer.

Well, there aren't any living civil war spouses anymore, but there are living kids of veterans. That's not actually all that surprising when you think about it. I'm 32 but my great-grandparents were born during the civil war, and while it's not every day that you've got someone my age whose great-grandparents go that far back, it's not all that uncommon (and there were no dramatically younger wives involved in my family tree).


My Great Great grandfather fought in the civil war (union). His widow (second marriage) collected payments til she died in the 50s.
 
2013-03-19 06:22:24 PM  
Edwin Starr -

"War!"
(uh huh)
"Who is it good for?"
"Bankers!"
"Say it say it again ...?|"
 
2013-03-19 06:26:09 PM  

Oldiron_79: You are still paying a "temporary" tax whenever you buy beer to fund the Union army for the civil war.

You are still paying a "temporary" tax to fund the continental army for the revolutionary war everytime you buy distilled spirits.


We repealed the "temporary tax" on telephones passed to fund the 1898 Spanish--American war. That was in 2007 I believe.

The "temporary" Income Tax passed in 1916 to fund World War I is still in force.

The "Temporary" payroll deductions to fund World War II are still in force as well, can you imagine what trouble it would cause if everyone had to pony up at the end of the year?
 
2013-03-19 07:09:52 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Pick: My father was a Korean War veteran, and I am not getting one thin, thin, dime from the government. I must be doing it wrong.

It'll get you membership at your local VFW as an auxiliary member! You just need a copy of his DD-214.


Wait!  I'm a member of the VFW.  You're saying my kids can be auxiliary members?  I did.not.know.that.  Hmmm.

I guess it won't do them much good until they're old enough to drink beer.
 
2013-03-19 07:47:15 PM  
Did the research on these people a while back. I wanted to see how many living people could give a second hand account of a civil war battle.

The last WWI vets died just in the last few years, so I suspect that we could have people who could give a second hand account of WWI well into the 2100's.
 
2013-03-19 07:55:44 PM  
The gov isn't paying for shiat. We are.
 
2013-03-19 08:21:33 PM  

Taylor Mental: Bermuda59: verydrab: Pensions should only be paid for disability if the veteran was drafted. If you volunteered, wtf did you expect?

So by this logic, if you suffer a work related injury in a civilian job, you shouldn't receive compensation unless you were forced to work at that company.
Actually most in the GOP would agree with this....

Actually, there might be some logic to that if you consider the criteria for disability awards. If there's a job available in your region which you are minimally suited for you will be turned down for benefits, whether you volunteer or not. So in a sense, yes, you are forced to work for someone. Doesn't even matter if they want to hire you or not.

I only mention this because most people criticizing disability programs have no clue what the approval process entails. They see the endless commercials on teevee where huge law firms advertise for clients and think "gotdamn lawyers!"  What they fail to consider is there wouldn't be a need for lawyers if the process weren't so long and arduous. They think Obama has hired hundreds of thousands ex Acorn workers to distribute coupons to drug addicts on every street corner in Chicago to be redeemed without question at Social Security offices.

Really, that's what they think.


Off topic I know, but you are absolutely correct in your statement. The approval process for Social Security Disability is not only long, but incredibly thorough. I broke my back while working and it took five years from the time I applied for disability until the time I got approved. The amount of documentation that needed to be supplied was overwhelming. I finally had to appear before a Federal Judge and he approved me after a lengthy interview and review of my medical records. Getting approved for disability is incredibly difficult. I am sure there are those that have scammed the system, but I don't understand how they were able to pull it off. It would take others, ie: doctors willing to lie and fabricate false medical records.

 And for all of you thinking that this is a way to a carefree life, you are sadly mistaken. Disability doesn't pay much. Less than a quarter of what I made when I worked. Life is difficult when you are trying to make it on Disability. There isn't much funds available to do much besides live a very basic life.
 
2013-03-19 08:38:00 PM  
weaselzippers.us

Collect much pension I do!
 
2013-03-19 09:05:50 PM  

OBBN: Taylor Mental: Bermuda59: verydrab: Pensions should only be paid for disability if the veteran was drafted. If you volunteered, wtf did you expect?

So by this logic, if you suffer a work related injury in a civilian job, you shouldn't receive compensation unless you were forced to work at that company.
Actually most in the GOP would agree with this....

Actually, there might be some logic to that if you consider the criteria for disability awards. If there's a job available in your region which you are minimally suited for you will be turned down for benefits, whether you volunteer or not. So in a sense, yes, you are forced to work for someone. Doesn't even matter if they want to hire you or not.

I only mention this because most people criticizing disability programs have no clue what the approval process entails. They see the endless commercials on teevee where huge law firms advertise for clients and think "gotdamn lawyers!"  What they fail to consider is there wouldn't be a need for lawyers if the process weren't so long and arduous. They think Obama has hired hundreds of thousands ex Acorn workers to distribute coupons to drug addicts on every street corner in Chicago to be redeemed without question at Social Security offices.

Really, that's what they think.

Off topic I know, but you are absolutely correct in your statement. The approval process for Social Security Disability is not only long, but incredibly thorough. I broke my back while working and it took five years from the time I applied for disability until the time I got approved. The amount of documentation that needed to be supplied was overwhelming. I finally had to appear before a Federal Judge and he approved me after a lengthy interview and review of my medical records. Getting approved for disability is incredibly difficult. I am sure there are those that have scammed the system, but I don't understand how they were able to pull it off. It would take others, ie: doctors willing to lie and fabr ...


It's not off-topic at all unless you're narrowing it to only military people. But then they are also eligible for the civilian disability program. Many combat vets actually get SSDI before ever getting approval from the DoD for combat disability. And so do all their dependents.

What it boils down to is someone has to do all the dirty work for America. Coal miners get lung disease, highway workers get run over, window washers fall off harnesses. Are we just supposed to say fark you very much and now die?

What the fark exactly makes us any different from Russia or Iran? Except we have a crap load more money.
 
2013-03-19 09:07:52 PM  
Don't worry, future wars will be cheaper using robots.
 
2013-03-19 09:40:05 PM  

socoloco: The gov isn't paying for shiat. We are.


We are the government.
 
2013-03-19 10:52:34 PM  
Gonz:

OK, check it out, here's the no-shiat way to get the system to work for your buddy.

First and foremost, he needs to make an appointment to be seen IN PERSON at a VA clinic. He's not going to ue his own doctor's records for anything, he needs to go to the appropriate VA facility. And here are the key words he's going to need to use: "service-connected" and "compensation and pension". As in he needs to go to a clinic to be seen for a service-connected injury, for which he is seeking compensation and pension.

While taking that step, he also needs to insure that there will be X-rays taken as part of his appointment. I can't stress that enough- there MUST be a radiology consult if he wants to show that he's missing something.

Finally- and this is slightly less important- the night before he goes, he needs to drink. Not enough that he won't be functional the next day, but some. And it needs to be something very specific: cheap gin. There will be a certain aura about him the next day that will add to his gravitas. And yes, I'm dead serious on that.

If you have any other questions, EIP. In case it's not, it's my name at ultrafark dot com.


He did try that. In the early years after vietnam.  They still classified it as a scar.  Granted, I don't think he specifically got smashed in order to walk in and convince them. He tended to get in drunken brawls.

He's been happily married for several years, and alcohol free.  The only thing he wants is to get a good prosthetic.  The red tape hassle is slowly being waded through.  He just has to wade long enough to find a few more good people to try and help him without suggesting drug or alcohol help
 
2013-03-20 01:21:29 AM  

Gonz: While taking that step, he also needs to insure that there will be X-rays taken as part of his appointment. I can't stress that enough- there MUST be a radiology consult if he wants to show that he's missing something.


When I was first getting into the VA I had a few items on my list to claim disability on. One of those was my knee I screwed up while in the AF. (I farked it up bad on the track during PT. Went to the hospital and the doc told me to stop by the BX and just buy some aspirin and it will get better. No doc note/exemption, brace, absolutely nothing, and my sergeants forced me to keep running on it since there was no doc note or else I'd get paperwork.  Even though I had excruciating pain and could barely walk on it.) The office the VA sent me to for the initial disability claim had a doc do a general look at my knee. He had me lay back and bend it, checked the reflexes and such but told me if anything it was a degenerative problem that every gets as they age. 8 months later I was service connected for but with 0% compensation... So I entered it back into the system for another claim. A year goes by before I get an appt to see Comp & Pension for me knee. The lady I saw there was wonderful and could immediately tell something was wrong with my knee because of the way I walked, and how shaky my support was just trying to stand on my right leg. She said that she would put in an order for X-rays and give me a call in the evening after she reviewed them. It turns out that the injury gave me a misaligned kneecap and that since the problem was never fixed it is creating wear outside the grooves / gives me pain and swelling the more I use it.

/It's been 6 months since she sent in her recommendation for an increase in compensation
//Still waiting for a reply
 
2013-03-20 01:44:52 AM  
How long indeed...
 
2013-03-20 12:12:49 PM  
GOOD GAWD, Y'ALL!
 
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