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(Talking Points Memo)   National Review slams RNC autopsy for failing to identify "the source of the GOP's recent electoral woes"   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 247
    More: Amusing, National Review, RNC, GOP  
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3270 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Mar 2013 at 10:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-19 12:14:13 PM

Weaver95: look - the GOP isn't stupid.  they KNOW why they lost.  But they cannot actually admit to those reasons in public...not without setting off another civil war within the ranks.  they're trapped in a cage of their own making.  the evangelicals won't let them slide on moral issues, the corporate elite won't let them slide one penny on fiscal issues, and years of training their rank and file to believe that ANY compromise is a sign of weakness prevents them from brokering even an internal peace accord, let alone finding some way to make a deal with the Democrats.

the GOP is locked into it's current course.  I have no idea how they're going to get outta this one.


It couldn't happen to a group more deserving.
 
2013-03-19 12:14:15 PM

meat0918: It appears the GOP has chosen the way of pain.


images1.wikia.nocookie.net
They chose... poorly.


/hot like the holy grail
 
2013-03-19 12:14:29 PM

manimal2878: Weaver95: I have no idea how they're going to get outta this one.

They don't need to get out of it, the democrats will bail them out by pushing the gun issue.


i'm not so sure.  you can only cry wolf so many time before voters catch on that you're just yanking their chains.
 
2013-03-19 12:15:18 PM

HotWingConspiracy: So yeah, is there any doubt left that the GOP is going to experience a schism and we'll have a hard right third party running against them?


That's one major possibility. Closely related is that the schism may peel off the more socially moderate elements, and the GOP will be the hard right party.

Either way, it looks to be headed to a schism between more theocratic elements and more laissez faire libertarian/business types, leaving both fighting over which has the "true" claim to the GOP/Republican name. There's some factions in the Democrats that might be sheered off, depending on how the GOP split goes.

Mentat: Which ignores the fact that at this moment, on a range of issues, Hispanics/Latinos are trending towards the liberal positions.


On most issues, from what I can tell. Though they're more liberal on contraception, they're still more conservative than other Americans on abortion; however, I suspect that's because religiosity remains a cultural norm.

Fart_Machine: From what I've read about 70% of US Hispanics identify themselves as Catholic. Not sure if that has drastically changed.


Hispanics are less likely to be unaffiliated than Americans generally, but more likely to be "not very strong" in their religious identification -- suggesting there may be a social shift impending there. This also holds true specifically among Hispanics who were raised as Catholics.

Lackofname: Which means they are pro-life and for social justice.


I expect the latter will continue (though I consider the label imprecise) even as the religiosity fades.
 
2013-03-19 12:19:24 PM

manimal2878: Weaver95: I have no idea how they're going to get outta this one.

They don't need to get out of it, the democrats will bail them out by pushing the gun issue.


I think conservative hegemony on the gun issue ended when a crazy dude put a bullet into the brainpan of 20 first-graders.  There is a large bi-partisan consensus that something needs to be done.  I think the assault weapon ban is off the table (it is honestly a bad idea and harry Reid will never let it come to a vote) but it is a useful bargaining chip.  Comprehensive background checks for gun purchase and the removal of the gun show loophole is garnering 80%+ support across the ideological spectrum.  It's also not helping them that Wayne LaPierre is going all clownshoes on the issue.  This is not 1995.
 
2013-03-19 12:21:14 PM

Weaver95: manimal2878: Weaver95: I have no idea how they're going to get outta this one.

They don't need to get out of it, the democrats will bail them out by pushing the gun issue.

i'm not so sure.  you can only cry wolf so many time before voters catch on that you're just yanking their chains.


Weaver95: manimal2878: Weaver95: I have no idea how they're going to get outta this one.

They don't need to get out of it, the democrats will bail them out by pushing the gun issue.

i'm not so sure.  you can only cry wolf so many time before voters catch on that you're just yanking their chains.


Cry wolf about what?
 
2013-03-19 12:21:20 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: "the source of the GOP's recent electoral woes"

[news.sciencemag.org image 476x600]



They meant it the same way Michael Corleone did in the beginning voiceover in The Godfather.
 
2013-03-19 12:25:12 PM
As a Democrat and a gun owner, I must say that the gun control being proposed is fairly stupid. Pistol grips on rifles are basically cosmetic, not intrinsic to functionality. Magazine sizes? Buy more, smaller, magazines. Background checks only work if the legitimate owner has a gun safe. Lots of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
 
2013-03-19 12:26:34 PM

manimal2878: Weaver95: manimal2878: Weaver95: I have no idea how they're going to get outta this one.

They don't need to get out of it, the democrats will bail them out by pushing the gun issue.

i'm not so sure.  you can only cry wolf so many time before voters catch on that you're just yanking their chains.

Cry wolf about what?


everything.  abortions, gun control, socialized medicine, Iran, the war on terror, the war on drugs, illegal aliens, the economy, socialism...the list goes on and on.  every time the GOP needs to motivate the troops they make wild claims about one of their grab bag of wedge issues.  But it's starting to become less effective.  people aren't reaching the necessary levels of outrage any more.
 
2013-03-19 12:29:52 PM

Ennuipoet: [insidepulse.com image 620x387]
Sam, this patient died because he was old, white, hated women, minorities and believed Reaganomics was feasible.


+1 internet for use of Quincy M.E.


also.. WTB the national review a mirror.
 
2013-03-19 12:30:13 PM

simplicimus: As a Democrat and a gun owner, I must say that the gun control being proposed is fairly stupid. Pistol grips on rifles are basically cosmetic, not intrinsic to functionality. Magazine sizes? Buy more, smaller, magazines. Background checks only work if the legitimate owner has a gun safe. Lots of sound and fury, signifying nothing.


ah, but you miss the point of raising the issue in the first place.  shout 'gun control' and suddenly nobody is talking about the GOP falling apart anymore...they're shouting about gun violence in america and chanting about conspiracy theories to steal their guns.  discussion averted, and the problem goes unaddressed for yet another day....but how long can the GOP keep ignoring their rotting infrastructure?  how long do they have until their foundations rust through completely?
 
2013-03-19 12:30:43 PM

amiable: manimal2878: Weaver95: I have no idea how they're going to get outta this one.

They don't need to get out of it, the democrats will bail them out by pushing the gun issue.

I think conservative hegemony on the gun issue ended when a crazy dude put a bullet into the brainpan of 20 first-graders.  There is a large bi-partisan consensus that something needs to be done.  I think the assault weapon ban is off the table (it is honestly a bad idea and harry Reid will never let it come to a vote) but it is a useful bargaining chip.  Comprehensive background checks for gun purchase and the removal of the gun show loophole is garnering 80%+ support across the ideological spectrum.  It's also not helping them that Wayne LaPierre is going all clownshoes on the issue.  This is not 1995.


At best a handful of conservatives changed their minds about guns after Newton.  Maybe a bit more democrat gun owners no longer believe the same things about guns.  But their are tons and tons of liberal gun owners, that aren't going to vote for a democrat that pushes for mag restrictions or weapon bans.  If they are like me, they won't vote for their republican rival, but they won't vote for them.

I don't see myself as democrat or republican.  I like to see myself as approaching the subject and coming to a conclusion based on facts and reason, and then on people should be allowed to do what they want.  On 99% of the issues facts and reason seem to fall to the along liberal lines.  But the facts and reason don't support gun control.  So I'm a gun owning liberal.

And no their is not a large bipartisan consensus, hence the reason nothing has changed yet (except in a few states, and I would guess those states are going to have their laws shot down eventually in court.)  Though personally I think the "gunshow loophole" and the background thing don't need to be an issue.  They should be able to create an iphone app that can let you do a check on somebody without storing the info on your phone, and retains anonymity preventing the registration of guns.  Or every gun show has a booth that you can get a check and a wrist band for that day.
 
2013-03-19 12:32:52 PM

Weaver95: simplicimus: As a Democrat and a gun owner, I must say that the gun control being proposed is fairly stupid. Pistol grips on rifles are basically cosmetic, not intrinsic to functionality. Magazine sizes? Buy more, smaller, magazines. Background checks only work if the legitimate owner has a gun safe. Lots of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

ah, but you miss the point of raising the issue in the first place.  shout 'gun control' and suddenly nobody is talking about the GOP falling apart anymore...they're shouting about gun violence in america and chanting about conspiracy theories to steal their guns.  discussion averted, and the problem goes unaddressed for yet another day....but how long can the GOP keep ignoring their rotting infrastructure?  how long do they have until their foundations rust through completely?


Sometime after the 2014 elections allow them to hold onto the House (Gerry Mander is a great guy at parties) but they still fail to take the Senate, but before the 2016 Presidential race, if they are lucky.
 
2013-03-19 12:33:25 PM

Weaver95: manimal2878: Weaver95: manimal2878: Weaver95: I have no idea how they're going to get outta this one.

They don't need to get out of it, the democrats will bail them out by pushing the gun issue.

i'm not so sure.  you can only cry wolf so many time before voters catch on that you're just yanking their chains.

Cry wolf about what?

everything.  abortions, gun control, socialized medicine, Iran, the war on terror, the war on drugs, illegal aliens, the economy, socialism...the list goes on and on.  every time the GOP needs to motivate the troops they make wild claims about one of their grab bag of wedge issues.  But it's starting to become less effective.  people aren't reaching the necessary levels of outrage any more.


It is not crying wolf in California, Colorado or NY that they are going to restrict your gun rights and want to implement these same policies federally.

I'm not saying I'm going to vote republican because of the gun thing, I find republicans to largely be disgusting and vile.  But I'm not going to vote for anyone that supports weapon bans either.
 
2013-03-19 12:34:10 PM

manimal2878: Or every gun show has a booth that you can get a check and a wrist band for that day.


So simple, a farker can come up with the most obvious solution.
 
2013-03-19 12:35:23 PM
Ever since the "Contract On America" fiasco the Republicans have given up on any competitive constructive ideas and have been working the ole voter suppression tactics.  Now those chickens have come home to roost and the GOP is running around in a panic, doubling down on the stupid.  May they fade away like their Whig predecessors.
 
2013-03-19 12:36:08 PM
I'll give you an idea how far the Republican Party has slipped from sanity. The Democrats make sense in comparison.

THAT IS ALL.
 
2013-03-19 12:36:52 PM
It turns out that the hispanic folk that can, y'know,  vote are already here legally and are worried about the economy and value standard american things like equality (for instance, when you're trying to marry your partner) like the rest of us and couldn't be arsed to care about immigration law.

Who the fark knew except everyone that can outsmart a doorknob.

simplicimus: As a Democrat and a gun owner, I must say that the gun control being proposed is fairly stupid. Pistol grips on rifles are basically cosmetic, not intrinsic to functionality. Magazine sizes? Buy more, smaller, magazines. Background checks only work if the legitimate owner has a gun safe. Lots of sound and fury, signifying nothing.


Actually, it seems like the Dems have wised up and put Feinstein's utter and complete stupidity with the outright bans into a separate proposed bill with a separate committee approval date from the actual sane stuff that everyone agrees on like closing the loopholes that let you sell without background checks and making legal declarations of mental incompetence or psychopathy show up by default when you call the database.

So basically they might actually be able to claim legitimate progress on the gun thing without handing a bunch of seats to the GOP by just letting Feinstein's stupid die on its own while they quietly pass the other stuff.
 
2013-03-19 12:37:54 PM
meat0918:
Sometime after the 2014 elections allow them to hold onto the House (Gerry Mander is a great guy at parties) but they still fail to take the Senate, but before the 2016 Presidential race, if they are lucky.

unless the tea party primaries a bunch of ranking Republicans for not being 'conservative enough'.  Rove and tea baggers have been having a not so quiet fight about that sort of thing.  so the GOP could still lose out to the 'baggers.  then lose control of key committee assignments while maintaining parity in numbers.
 
2013-03-19 12:39:36 PM

meat0918: manimal2878: Or every gun show has a booth that you can get a check and a wrist band for that day.

So simple, a farker can come up with the most obvious solution.


Even better: I say we tranq and tag 'em like we do polar bears and set them loose. Track 'em from there.
 
2013-03-19 12:40:23 PM
manimal2878:

I'm not saying I'm going to vote republican because of the gun thing, I find republicans to largely be disgusting and vile.  But I'm not going to vote for anyone that supports weapon bans either.

And that's how the GOP manages to get you to vote against your own self interests....
 
2013-03-19 12:40:46 PM

manimal2878: It is not crying wolf in California, Colorado or NY that they are going to restrict your gun rights and want to implement these same policies federally.



In all fairness, you're really just talking New York CITY, most of the STATE is about as restrictive on guns as, say, Texas.  And NYC is essentially a micromanaging fascist state in general, not just on guns, they regulate random bullshiat like the size of soda you can drink and are now trying to ban advertising completely legal products in the primary places they're sold.

California I guess you've got a point.
 
2013-03-19 12:45:32 PM

Weaver95: manimal2878:

I'm not saying I'm going to vote republican because of the gun thing, I find republicans to largely be disgusting and vile.  But I'm not going to vote for anyone that supports weapon bans either.

And that's how the GOP manages to get you to vote against your own self interests....



No, that is how the Democrats convince me not to vote for them either.
 
2013-03-19 12:46:19 PM
manimal2878:

I'm not saying I'm going to vote republican because of the gun thing, I find republicans to largely be disgusting and vile.  But I'm not going to vote for anyone that supports weapon bans either.

So basically what you are saying here is that you are a single issue voter.  That's fine, but most folk aren't.  The assault weapon ban isn't happening but background checks and gun show loophole closing most likely are.  If you can't vote for the Democrat's because of that I don't know what to tell you other than you are quite a bit outside the mainstream on those issues.
 
2013-03-19 12:47:08 PM

Jim_Callahan: manimal2878: It is not crying wolf in California, Colorado or NY that they are going to restrict your gun rights and want to implement these same policies federally.


In all fairness, you're really just talking New York CITY, most of the STATE is about as restrictive on guns as, say, Texas.  And NYC is essentially a micromanaging fascist state in general, not just on guns, they regulate random bullshiat like the size of soda you can drink and are now trying to ban advertising completely legal products in the primary places they're sold.

California I guess you've got a point.


The 7 round NY thing is statewide.
 
2013-03-19 12:48:38 PM

manimal2878: Weaver95: manimal2878:

I'm not saying I'm going to vote republican because of the gun thing, I find republicans to largely be disgusting and vile.  But I'm not going to vote for anyone that supports weapon bans either.

And that's how the GOP manages to get you to vote against your own self interests....


No, that is how the Democrats convince me not to vote for them either.


again, you make my point for me.
 
2013-03-19 12:49:26 PM

Jim_Callahan: manimal2878: It is not crying wolf in California, Colorado or NY that they are going to restrict your gun rights and want to implement these same policies federally.


In all fairness, you're really just talking New York CITY, most of the STATE is about as restrictive on guns as, say, Texas.  And NYC is essentially a micromanaging fascist state in general, not just on guns, they regulate random bullshiat like the size of soda you can drink and are now trying to ban advertising completely legal products in the primary places they're sold.

California I guess you've got a point.


Never been to Utah? Oh, sure, you can buy sixteen guns before breakfast, but try ordering a real beer - 6% (or greater) ABV, 20oz (or more) in a glass.

States and cities do all kinds of stupid shiat. The bulwark against it is supposed to be a well-informed population, but it seems the majority of people in those areas want this type of thing.
 
2013-03-19 12:51:08 PM

Weaver95: manimal2878:

I'm not saying I'm going to vote republican because of the gun thing, I find republicans to largely be disgusting and vile.  But I'm not going to vote for anyone that supports weapon bans either.

And that's how the GOP manages to get you to vote against your own self interests....


As long as he has his guns he is not worried about policies that remove wage protection to pay tax cuts for the top tier, nor environmental laws that allow for his drinking water to catch fire while removing any recourse against the drilling companies and last but not least who needs health insurance if you got a gun. Amiright?
 
2013-03-19 12:51:38 PM

amiable: So basically what you are saying here is that you are a single issue voter. That's fine, but most folk aren't. The assault weapon ban isn't happening but background checks and gun show loophole closing most likely are. If you can't vote for the Democrat's because of that I don't know what to tell you other than you are quite a bit outside the mainstream on those issues.


I don't really see it as a single issue situation.  I see it as, I expect my candidates to approach issues rationally, based on facts and logic.  That is the single issue that I care about.  I do support background checks and the loophole closing.  I'm fine with those that support that, it is logical.
 
2013-03-19 12:52:33 PM

Weaver95: look - the GOP isn't stupid.


Dude, you're in my favorites list for being a sensible person.  But I'm sorry, the GOP are stupid; if they weren't so stupid, they wouldn't have bought into those "polls" stating that Romney would win in a landslide.
 
2013-03-19 12:53:25 PM

Weaver95: manimal2878: Weaver95: manimal2878:

I'm not saying I'm going to vote republican because of the gun thing, I find republicans to largely be disgusting and vile.  But I'm not going to vote for anyone that supports weapon bans either.

And that's how the GOP manages to get you to vote against your own self interests....


No, that is how the Democrats convince me not to vote for them either.

again, you make my point for me.


Your logic here is retarded.  Because democrats want to ban guns, the GOP has convinced me to vote against my own interests?

That makes no sense.
 
2013-03-19 12:53:40 PM

GiantRex: Weaver95: one of the most glaring weaknesses of the Republican party is they can't (or won't) bother to understand YOUR motivations or psychology.

We have a winner, folks.

It's interesting to note that all of these GOP-produced reports about why they lost the last election cycle contain entirely internal research, i.e. voices and opinions from within the party. Not even once have we seen an effort by the GOP to look for answers outside the party. It seems to me that the sensible thing to do when a party loses an election would be for researchers from the losing party to speak with voters who did not vote for their party and ask those people why they chose to vote the way they did, specifically why they did not vote for them and why they chose some other candidate instead. There's been a little bit of talk about "outreach" from the more progressive voices in the party, but that's mostly about immigration issues so they can try to win over more Hispanic voters. Why has there been no discussion of reaching out to voters who voted against them so they can find out why those voters voted against them?


The excerpts I heard did mention holding focus groups outside the party.  Not saying they'll learn anything from it, but I think they are sort of trying a little.
 
2013-03-19 12:54:08 PM

monoski: As long as he has his guns he is not worried about policies that remove wage protection to pay tax cuts for the top tier, nor environmental laws that allow for his drinking water to catch fire while removing any recourse against the drilling companies and last but not least who needs health insurance if you got a gun. Amiright?


No you are completely incorrect asshole.  Learn to read.
 
2013-03-19 12:55:53 PM

Weaver95: dr_blasto: Weaver95: look - the GOP isn't stupid.

Yes, they are.

no, they're not.  they are delusional, they are obstinate and they are arrogant

stupid.  But they aren't stupid.  think of the Republicans as being more the victims of stupidity  than being stupid.  they are driven by a set of stupid goals that conflicts with the reality around them...but their stupidity and shared stupidity  are stupid  (for the most part).  the stupid bit comes in when they choose to ignore inconvenient facts in favor of their stupidity .  if they were simply stupid we would be able to lie and trick them very easily.  As it stands, Obama and the Democrats aren't winning against the Republicans because they've out-thought the GOP...they're aren't winning because they, too, are stupid... AND weak.. GOP's stupidity is so stupid , so stupid  that the rest of the country wants nothing to do with it.  And because the Republican party is so stupid , they simply are not capable of changing their stupid approach.  that option simply does not exist for the Republican party.  they KNOW that they're stupid .  they KNOW that their too stupid .  But they can't change their stupidity  any more than someone who's OCD could stop touching a door handle three times before opening it.  they know it's stupid , they KNOW stupidity ...but they can't help their stupid selves.

/ i am to stupid to be sure, but I think I did this because I am stupid
 
2013-03-19 12:55:55 PM

Weaver95: dr_blasto: Stupid just seems to cover most of it the easiest.

I guess what i'm trying to say is - don't underestimate the Republicans.  if they ever get their shiat together, they can make life extremely difficult for the rest of us.  don't assume they're all dumb inbred tea baggers.  understand their psychology and you can use it against them.  one of the most glaring weaknesses of the Republican party is they can't (or won't) bother to understand YOUR motivations or psychology.  that lets you blind side them rather easily.  to most Republican True Believers, if you aren't with them, then you are The Enemy.  you're a 'librul' and 'libruls' are all alike.  the Republicans cannot conceive of a 'librul' protecting the second amendment or being a hunter.  they assume 'libruls' hate all businesses without cause or exception.  they assume corporations will always act in the best interests of this nation and that the GOP leadership is honorable.  And the GOP assumes that deep down everyone in the country is really a conservative christian with values just like themselves.

use those blind spots.  don't try to slug it out with the GOP on ideology, because you can't win that fight.  instead, encourage the GOP to dig in their heels and stick to their ideology even more than they would otherwise.


I agree with that mindset.
 
2013-03-19 12:55:58 PM
manimal2878:

I don't really see it as a single issue situation.  I see it as, I expect my candidates to approach issues rationally, based on facts and logic.  That is the single issue that I care about.  I do support background checks and the loophole closing.  I'm fine with those that support that, it is logical.

But you are not going to agree with every single stance that either party takes, you have to make the rational decision at some point to support the party that best reflects your interests overall or choose not to participate (and forfeit all of your political power).  A small group of democrats is supporting the assault weapon ban, but a larger group realizes this is a mistake and thus are keeping it out of the bill.  You have already stated that you support what is most likely going to get passed (which is being proposed by democrats).   So you are not going to ever vote for a democrat because some members of the caucus had an idea you disagree with, that isn't becoming law even though you think the Republicans are an absolutely terrible party?  How does this make any sense?
 
2013-03-19 12:56:17 PM
manimal2878:
Your logic here is retarded.  Because democrats want to ban guns, the GOP has convinced me to vote against my own interests?

That makes no sense.


*sigh*

no, you are being LIED TOO about what the Democrats want to do about gun violence.  And you won't do your own research or believe there are alternatives.  so you'll vote for a lying scumbag evangelical christian who will raise your taxes, cut his own taxes and help run your job out of the country.  but hey - second amendment right?
 
2013-03-19 12:59:46 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: "the source of the GOP's recent electoral woes"


Wasn't the very first line spoken in 'The Godfather': I believe in America?
 
2013-03-19 01:01:00 PM

Rwa2play: Weaver95: look - the GOP isn't stupid.

Dude, you're in my favorites list for being a sensible person.  But I'm sorry, the GOP are stupid; if they weren't so stupid, they wouldn't have bought into those "polls" stating that Romney would win in a landslide.


that's arrogance and delusion, not stupidity.
 
2013-03-19 01:01:23 PM

amiable: manimal2878:

  A small group of democrats is supporting the assault weapon ban, but a larger group realizes this is a mistake and thus are keeping it out of the bill.  You have already stated that you support what is most likely going to get passed (which is being proposed by democrats).   So you are not going to ever vote for a democrat because some members of the caucus had an idea you disagree with, that isn't becoming law even though you think the Republicans are an absolutely terrible party?  How does this make any sense?


It doesn't make sense because I didn't say it, you somehow imagined that to be my position.  I don't recall saying I wouldn't vote for any democrat ever.  If it wasn't clear,  I have no problem voting for democrats in general, but I will not vote for a specific candidate that supports weapon bans.
 
2013-03-19 01:01:33 PM

manimal2878: amiable: So basically what you are saying here is that you are a single issue voter. That's fine, but most folk aren't. The assault weapon ban isn't happening but background checks and gun show loophole closing most likely are. If you can't vote for the Democrat's because of that I don't know what to tell you other than you are quite a bit outside the mainstream on those issues.

I don't really see it as a single issue situation.  I see it as, I expect my candidates to approach issues rationally, based on facts and logic.  That is the single issue that I care about.  I do support background checks and the loophole closing.  I'm fine with those that support that, it is logical.


That's what Democrats are working towards, are closing loopholes and improving background checks. Feinstein's assault weapons ban bill is going to die on the vine. I doubt a high capacity mag ban makes it out of committee. If it does, it'll die on the floor.
 
2013-03-19 01:04:36 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: The GOP isn't trying to figure out what went wrong with regards to their communication techniques or fine-tuning their message. Its not about figuring out social media or getting a better ground game. Its all about being able to better fool the voters into voting against their self-interests. Lets see, how can we call the blacks "freeloading n*&&ers" to increase our percentage of the white vote, while simultaneously appealing to the African-American bigots who hate gays? How can we simultaneously let the Hispanics know that they're all dirty illegal Mexicans to us, but they should vote for us because a lot of them are Catholic? How can we call a gay person a f*ggot who is leading the country down the path of moral decline while we tell people how inclusive we are? How can we call everyone who doesn't make $500k/yr a "taker" without getting caught on tape? How can we get the middle class to view the poor as the source of all their problems?


Pretty much.  That MSNBC weekend interview with a Republican strategist pretty much said it all about their reasoning.  He essentially said "The message isn't the problem, just the messengers."

Arraigning the deck chairs on the Titanic and all.
 
2013-03-19 01:05:08 PM

Weaver95: no, you are being LIED TOO about what the Democrats want to do about gun violence


Really?  They don't want to ban certain types of weapons?  They don't want magazine capacity restrictions?  Because, yes, they do.


Weaver95: And you won't do your own research or believe there are alternatives. so you'll vote for a lying scumbag evangelical christian who will raise your taxes, cut his own taxes and help run your job out of the country. but hey - second amendment right?


Stop being emotional scroll back up and actually read what I said.  You are acting like a farking tea-partier, only on the opposite end of the political spectrum building a strawman and getting all hot and bothered about it.
 
2013-03-19 01:08:15 PM

verbaltoxin: That's what Democrats are working towards, are closing loopholes and improving background checks. Feinstein's assault weapons ban bill is going to die on the vine. I doubt a high capacity mag ban makes it out of committee. If it does, it'll die on the floor.


Did Feinstein, declare herself to not be a Democrat at some point in the last few weeks?  Otherwise, there are still democrats that are working on more than just background checks and loopholes.

If everybody knows it's going to die on the vine, they need to come out and say why, because it is a stupid idea.  Not just let it ride, so that dems can talk out of both sides of their mouth, claiming that they really want to ban weapons, but also saying no that's crazy  really we only want to close loopholes.
 
2013-03-19 01:08:49 PM
manimal2878:

Stop being emotional scroll back up and actually read what I said.  You are acting like a farking tea-partier, only on the opposite end of the political spectrum building a strawman and getting all hot and bothered about it.

i'm being emotional?  scroll back up top this thread for a moment and reconsider what the article under discussion is supposed to be - it's about the GOP post mortum on the election losses and what they can do to fix their problem(s).  And what was your response to that article?  you changed the subject to gun control.  now why would you do that, I wonder?

My earlier point up thread was that the GOP (and those who support them) would change the subject to avoid discussing the reasons for the GOP election failures.  then you come along and what did you do?  changed the subject to a wedge issue.
 
2013-03-19 01:08:52 PM
"Ideologically liberal" is code for "poor & brown".
 
2013-03-19 01:09:13 PM

Weaver95: Rwa2play: Weaver95: look - the GOP isn't stupid.

Dude, you're in my favorites list for being a sensible person.  But I'm sorry, the GOP are stupid; if they weren't so stupid, they wouldn't have bought into those "polls" stating that Romney would win in a landslide.

that's arrogance and delusion, not stupidity.


Earlier you said the stupid can be tricked and deceived. Are not many conservatives tricked and deceived into voting against their own interests? How many of them voted away collective bargaining, proportional taxation, funding for Planned Parenthood, and bond measures for schools and roads in the past decade alone? That bears the mark of widespread stupidity, if you ask me.

Later you said the way to beat conservatives is to make them hang themselves by their own rope. Is that not tricking them? What has the Obama administration spent this past year doing, then?

Face it, you said Republicans are stupid.  Republican leaders are deluded too like you stated, but a great many Republican voter is indeed very, very stupid. These are the people who deny the existence of evolution and global warming, and actually agreed with Todd Akin, remember.
 
2013-03-19 01:09:36 PM

manimal2878: Really?  They don't want to ban certain types of weapons?  They don't want magazine capacity restrictions?  Because, yes, they do.


Kinda.  The outright bans are more of a fringe group within the party, with the unfortunate note that one of the nutballs in question happens to sit on a very relevant committee and has little to lose in her home district.

Magazine capacity hard-limit at 10 is regarded as either desirable or a reasonable place to give ground by most of the party, though, yes.

Basically, you're assuming that the Dems walk in lockstep and all have the same set of bullet points kept current by the whip on penalty of primary challenge like the Republicans.  They do not, the Dems are holding power by being the consensus party at the moment so they can't afford to be douchebags about internal factional disagreements.  On many issues there are things that  a democrat wants that it can't be fairly said that  democrats want.
 
2013-03-19 01:10:59 PM
verbaltoxin:
Earlier you said the stupid can be tricked and deceived.

True...but its like this: all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles.  don't assume that just because you can trick and mislead someone that they're stupid.
 
2013-03-19 01:13:14 PM

Weaver95: Rwa2play: Weaver95: look - the GOP isn't stupid.

Dude, you're in my favorites list for being a sensible person.  But I'm sorry, the GOP are stupid; if they weren't so stupid, they wouldn't have bought into those "polls" stating that Romney would win in a landslide.

that's arrogance and delusion, not stupidity.


Fair point.  Still, the fact that they still keep adhering to the message despite evidence to the contrary doesn't help their cause at all.
 
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