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(Fox 8 Cleveland)   You thought it was over? Two Steubenville girls arrested for tweeting threats against the Steubenville rape victim. Sick tag unresponsive in a corner somewhere   (fox8.com) divider line 505
    More: Followup, Steubenville, rape victim, Mike DeWine  
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14189 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2013 at 1:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-19 09:56:14 AM  
I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.



Your little attempt at logic is adorable
Next time, write it in all caps!
 
2013-03-19 09:58:05 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: stoli n coke: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact:  The Tupac rule.  And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered.  But you record sexual acts to cover your ass.  If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?


Do you get some sort of jollies trying to vilify a woman for getting raped?

In my experience, I've noticed that the people most willing to brand a girl a slut are mad because she is having sex, and she isn't having sex with them.

I'll clarify something for you. Yes, there are consequences to drinking. If you get blackout drunk, your friends have a right to do some things, i.e. draw on your face with a Sharpie, make drunk text messages from your phone, etc. However, if you get blackout drunk, your friends DON"T have the right to rape you.

Why is that so difficult for some of you to understand?

No.  No one has the right to be taken advantage of when blackout drunk.
There are no exceptions.
Making rape (specifically the rape of a female, right? not the rape of a male?) the lone exception is suspect  and heinous.  It is not feminism. It doesn't look out for women. It doesn't resolve the problem of folks bein ...


So i'm guessing at this point you are defending the boys actions because you have indeed done the same exact thing. I don't even think your trolling deserves a proper response. Fark you and your farked up opinion of what constitutes a rape. YOU ARE DEFENDING PEOPLE FOR FARKING A PASSED OUT TEENAGER AND THEN POSTING ABOUT IT ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA. DIAF, seriously.
 
2013-03-19 10:00:00 AM  

quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

Ewwwww. Dude you really need a better class of friends.



Is that what this is about, ESC? Did you pass out and get teabagged, cause you've got more issues than the New York Times.
 
2013-03-19 10:01:03 AM  

Jizz Master Zero: I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.


If everybody is drunk,
then why are men responsible for their yeses and noes
but women are not?

How many of the kids at that party were sober?
How many of the accused, those who stood around and those who participated,
were sober?

Again, Men Are Responsible.  Women Are Never Responsible.
Men are ultimately capable of consent at all times.
Women are ultimately rarely capable of consent at the best of times.

Those two young men who got drunk while underaged are now going to be sex offenders and go to Big Boy jail after juvie.  Because A Man Must Face Up To His Responsibilities.  They farked up.  To the pokie they go.

Women don't.  Women are children, and are to be treated as such.  They know not what they do, even when they do, because a Man is just that much more mentally capable of handling life, pressure, and consequences.

Women are not.

So yeah, they farked up.  So did she, though.  Her consequences are not as cut and dried as theirs, though.  The pushback is against declaring her blameless for her own situation.
 
2013-03-19 10:03:57 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jizz Master Zero: I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.

If everybody is drunk,
then why are men responsible for their yeses and noes
but women are not?

How many of the kids at that party were sober?
How many of the accused, those who stood around and those who participated,
were sober?

Again, Men Are Responsible.  Women Are Never Responsible.
Men are ultimately capable of consent at all times.
Women are ultimately rarely capable of consent at the best of times.

Those two young men who got drunk while underaged are now going to be sex offenders and go to Big Boy jail after juvie.  Because A Man Must Face Up To His Responsibilities.  They farked up.  To the pokie they go.

Women don't.  Women are children, and are to be treated as such.  They know not what they do, even when they do, because a Man is just that much more mentally capable of handling life, pressure, and consequences.

Women are not.

So yeah, they farked up.  So did she, though.  Her consequences are not as cut and dried as theirs, though.  The pushback is against declaring her blameless for her own situation.


Saved in RED as "Possible Rapist"
 
2013-03-19 10:04:07 AM  

GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?


Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.
 
2013-03-19 10:04:24 AM  

The Muthaship: Tat'dGreaser: Are people really trying to use this as a reason to get rid of high school sports?

Just me.

This isn't the on'y reason, IMO.  I really do believe school affiliated sports are a net negative.  That goes for college, too.  I am not opposed to sport, but it needs to be separated from academics.

I am well aware that my opinion is the minority, and likely always will be.


I am with you on this.
Education is for what it is and you would do well to eliminate sports and teach martial arts to all from kindergarten on up.
Also, teach logic. From simple Aristotle up to existential.

Tell me after 18 years of learning martial arts and logic you would be fooled into voting for a moran, bullied by a do-nut muncher, or unable to get a job writing code.
Heck, You would probably not over spend your paycheck, either.

What kind of a nation would it be if morons couldn't get elected, Bullies were stood up to and everyone had a job?
 
2013-03-19 10:04:57 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: Never said that, just destroying your "but how dem kids gunna lern to throw stuff" argument.

They're already at school most of the day anyway! Might as well let them play sports.


I'd treat them like the dog whisperer guy treats fat unruly dogs, just make them run until they can't anymore. That would be first period.
 
2013-03-19 10:07:14 AM  

deanis: So i'm guessing at this point you are defending the boys actions because you have indeed done the same exact thing. I don't even think your trolling deserves a proper response. Fark you and your farked up opinion of what constitutes a rape. YOU ARE DEFENDING PEOPLE FOR FARKING A PASSED OUT TEENAGER AND THEN POSTING ABOUT IT ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA. DIAF, seriously.


Calm down. He just doesn't want us to forget the REAL victims.
 
2013-03-19 10:08:38 AM  
The apologists seem to not be familiar with the details of the case.

Also, there's plenty of statements to indicate the girl may have been drugged.  Not proof enough to be argued sufficiently in the trial, but this should at least be considered as a possibility.  The timeline from being completely fine to blackout drunk was a little to narrow for my tastes.  All this social media crap is timestamped, and people made statements about her being completely sober not long before all this went down.  Nothing stays under wraps here.   The victim herself told people she thought she was drugged.  Even if it's not true, shouldn't we consider that we don't know this was a simple case of someone drinking themselves into a blackout?  And this whole "she deserves some blame" crap.  Sure maybe she does, for blacking out, for the hangover I'm sure she had, if maybe someone drew a penis on her face, but for the rape of her lifeless body? And I bet I probably shouldn't wear short skirts either, right? Seriously, just keep that opinion to yourself or go back to 4chan with the other monkeys.

I mean, before we start slut-shaming someone and blaming her for being raped, take a second to think that there's lots of information that got lost with the gross purposeful mishandling of this case before outside authorities stepped in.
 
2013-03-19 10:10:09 AM  
It's sad that this concept exists, but it does, and it may be happening in this thread right now. The best think we can do it to teach kids it's ok to go against the group sometimes. The victim's friend that texted her the next day, saying "I'm so sorry, there's nothing I could do" really pissed me off. Really? There's nothing you could have done to get your friend out of that situation? Nothing?
Then I remembered how we are all animals in a group: Deindividuation .
 
2013-03-19 10:10:25 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: These dudes stuck their fingers in vagina.
If she were a dude, they would have taken pictures of their ballsacks on her (his, in that case) face.
They molested her, just like it would have been molestation to place their ballsacks on her face.

Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

Boy does this guy wish that was true.


From your link:

- He's not required to register as a sex offender.
- He was only ultimately charged for two obscenity charges, which carry a two year sentence, and not the sexual battery charge which carries a 10 year sentence.
- The victim was a male Alabama fan, who passed out in the presence of male LSU fans.

Suck it up, male Alabama fan.  You were not the victim of a sexual assault.  But you do have a great lawyer, and lucky for you the presiding judge was a female.
 
2013-03-19 10:10:37 AM  

SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?

Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.


Yet people like ESC will defend these actions. I seriously think he has vast knowledge of the topic from committing these crimes first hand.
 
2013-03-19 10:16:02 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: These dudes stuck their fingers in vagina.
If she were a dude, they would have taken pictures of their ballsacks on her (his, in that case) face.
They molested her, just like it would have been molestation to place their ballsacks on her face.

Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

Boy does this guy wish that was true.

From your link:

- He's not required to register as a sex offender.
- He was only ultimately charged for two obscenity charges, which carry a two year sentence, and not the sexual battery charge which carries a 10 year sentence.
- The victim was a male Alabama fan, who passed out in the presence of male LSU fans.

Suck it up, male Alabama fan.  You were not the victim of a sexual assault.  But you do have a great lawyer, and lucky for you the presiding judge was a female.


Still served to ruin your argument. He was prosecuted for teabagging, which you wanted to indicate doesn't happen.
 
2013-03-19 10:16:32 AM  

Farce-Side: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jizz Master Zero: I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.

If everybody is drunk,
then why are men responsible for their yeses and noes
but women are not?

How many of the kids at that party were sober?
How many of the accused, those who stood around and those who participated,
were sober?

Again, Men Are Responsible.  Women Are Never Responsible.
Men are ultimately capable of consent at all times.
Women are ultimately rarely capable of consent at the best of times.

Those two young men who got drunk while underaged are now going to be sex offenders and go to Big Boy jail after juvie.  Because A Man Must Face Up To His Responsibilities.  They farked up.  To the pokie they go.

Women don't.  Women are children, and are to be treated as such.  They know not what they do, even when they do, because a Man is just that much more mentally capable of handling life, pressure, and consequences.

Women are not.

So yeah, they farked up.  So did she, though.  Her consequences are not as cut and dried as theirs, though.  The pushback is against declaring her blameless for her own situation.

Saved in RED as "Possible Rapist"


I used to think he was just a troll, but trolls usually slip up. Despite being on my ignore list for at least a couple of years he still pops up in quotes, so I see a lovely sampling of his rantings like the above. Now I just picture him as Vic Morrow's character in Twilight Zone: The Movie.
 
2013-03-19 10:19:35 AM  
I really "adore" how many people say things like "don't drink stoopid" or "why did her parents let her go out" when horrible situations like this come up. As if they never snuck out of their bedroom window, lied that they were going to a movie with a friend only to meet someone else, or had their first experience with (insert type of alcohol that they're never touching again here). When someone else is in a terrible situation all of a sudden they become saints.

One of these days, someone who has miles of these sort of tweets and posts will be in court trying to justify why they didn't take their own advice.

/no I do not wish anything horrible on anyone
//well, maybe a sudden non fatal allergy to everything that is unhealthy but absolutely delicious in life
///maybe just a very present rash on both of their faces
 
2013-03-19 10:19:53 AM  
How much would you bet that most of these kids still party together?
 
2013-03-19 10:20:14 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: These dudes stuck their fingers in vagina.
If she were a dude, they would have taken pictures of their ballsacks on her (his, in that case) face.
They molested her, just like it would have been molestation to place their ballsacks on her face.

Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

Boy does this guy wish that was true.

From your link:

- He's not required to register as a sex offender.
- He was only ultimately charged for two obscenity charges, which carry a two year sentence, and not the sexual battery charge which carries a 10 year sentence.
- The victim was a male Alabama fan, who passed out in the presence of male LSU fans.

Suck it up, male Alabama fan.  You were not the victim of a sexual assault.  But you do have a great lawyer, and lucky for you the presiding judge was a female.

Still served to ruin your argument. He was prosecuted for teabagging, which you wanted to indicate doesn't happen.


Then why is that asshole Rand Paul still running around loose?
 
2013-03-19 10:20:59 AM  

Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?


Huh? You know most bullying is done by girls, right?
 
2013-03-19 10:23:03 AM  

deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?

Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.

Yet people like ESC will defend these actions. I seriously think he has vast knowledge of the topic from committing these crimes first hand.


"People like ESC" want what's good for the gander to be good for the goose, in these situations.

That 'possibly penetrating her anally' is a hoot and a half though.  Gotta add that in there, though there's no proof whatsoever, right? because what really happened isn't bad enough for those who do the telling.

Takes it from molestation to penetration, and not just any kind of penetration but the kind a straight man understands as unwanted.  I see ya working.

I just don't agree with where you're going with it.  Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out?  Or is that just on the same level as 'possibly penetrating her anally'?

/To Young Men:  Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men
 
2013-03-19 10:23:59 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: stoli n coke: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact:  The Tupac rule.  And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered.  But you record sexual acts to cover your ass.  If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?


Do you get some sort of jollies trying to vilify a woman for getting raped?

In my experience, I've noticed that the people most willing to brand a girl a slut are mad because she is having sex, and she isn't having sex with them.

I'll clarify something for you. Yes, there are consequences to drinking. If you get blackout drunk, your friends have a right to do some things, i.e. draw on your face with a Sharpie, make drunk text messages from your phone, etc. However, if you get blackout drunk, your friends DON"T have the right to rape you.

Why is that so difficult for some of you to understand?

No.  No one has the right to be taken advantage of when blackout drunk.
There are no exceptions.
Making rape (specifically the rape of a female, right? not the rape of a male?) the lone exception is suspect  and heinous.  It is not feminism. It doesn't look out for women. It doesn't resolve the problem of folks bein ...


Honest question: Do you actually not recognise the difference between drawing someone with a sharpie and sexual assault?  Because that seems to be what you're saying here.   "Yes a girl was raped, but someone drew a Hitler mustache on me when I passed out, that's just as bad!"
 
2013-03-19 10:25:07 AM  

Therion: I say we take off and nuke the entire site (Ohio) from orbit, just to be sure.


As a lifelong Ohio resident, I'm strangely comfortable with this.

Gimme a couple days notice so I can move the gf, her cat, and both of our computers and immediate families out first, though.  Oh, and the coffee stash.

/because coffee
 
2013-03-19 10:27:26 AM  

CWeinerWV: The apologists seem to not be familiar with the details of the case.


Has an excellent timeline (excellent but disgusting).

Long story short.  She was pass out drunk, unable to talk coherently at a minimum, when the sexual acts began...including the flashing of her breasts for her, leaving her topless in the middle of the street, taking pics of her, penetrating her on multiple occasions with fingers, and peeing on her.  And those are just the things confirmed by those who didn't do that acts.  The other stuff rumored to have happened (by people tweeting at the time) included slapping her with their genitals on camera, anal sex.
 
2013-03-19 10:28:11 AM  

Peekachicka: I really "adore" how many people say things like "don't drink stoopid" or "why did her parents let her go out" when horrible situations like this come up. As if they never snuck out of their bedroom window, lied that they were going to a movie with a friend only to meet someone else, or had their first experience with (insert type of alcohol that they're never touching again here). When someone else is in a terrible situation all of a sudden they become saints.


Except that just like not everyone started having sex at the age of 12, not everyone became a blackout drunk by 14.  Like in that recent story of the kids who died in the car crash, who were accused of stealing the car they drowned in (except for the kid who was pinned under it in the pond after the car hit the barrier) -- not everyone experiments with grand theft by the age of 15.

For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK.  She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.
 
2013-03-19 10:28:17 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?

Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.

Yet people like ESC will defend these actions. I seriously think he has vast knowledge of the topic from committing these crimes first hand.

"People like ESC" want what's good for the gander to be good for the goose, in these situations.

That 'possibly penetrating her anally' is a hoot and a half though.  Gotta add that in there, though there's no proof whatsoever, right? because what really happened isn't bad enough for those who do the telling.

Takes it from molestation to penetration, and not just any kind of penetration but the kind a straight man understands as unwanted.  I see ya working.

I just don't agree with where you're going with it.  Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russ ...


Wait, so you're saying you were there, and have first hand knowledge that the girl wasn't raped?  Why didn't you come forward before those young men were convicted?
 
2013-03-19 10:29:38 AM  

Peekachicka: I really "adore" how many people say things like "don't drink stoopid" or "why did her parents let her go out" when horrible situations like this come up. As if they never snuck out of their bedroom window, lied that they were going to a movie with a friend only to meet someone else, or had their first experience with (insert type of alcohol that they're never touching again here). When someone else is in a terrible situation all of a sudden they become saints.

One of these days, someone who has miles of these sort of tweets and posts will be in court trying to justify why they didn't take their own advice.

/no I do not wish anything horrible on anyone
//well, maybe a sudden non fatal allergy to everything that is unhealthy but absolutely delicious in life
///maybe just a very present rash on both of their faces


I like you. Welcome to TF!
 
2013-03-19 10:30:33 AM  
I live here, and I hate to say this, but.....

It's Ohio, these girls doing this to the victim, and the fact that football seems more important than someone being victimized is not surprising. Sad to say it, but that's Ohio.


Please someone help sponsor us normal people to leave this state, please!!!! (Then Nuke the hell out of it.)
 
2013-03-19 10:32:26 AM  

GoldSpider: How much would you bet that most of these kids still party together?


I dunno - something like this does put a crimp on the partying for a little while. Twenty years from now there is an excellent documentary to be made of the effects to the social life of the town.
 
2013-03-19 10:32:38 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK. She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.


Your concern for her well being is noted.  Can you please back off a lot and realize that this case isn't about you?
 
2013-03-19 10:34:09 AM  

Jorn the Younger: Honest question: Do you actually not recognise the difference between drawing someone with a sharpie and sexual assault?  Because that seems to be what you're saying here.   "Yes a girl was raped, but someone drew a Hitler mustache on me when I passed out, that's just as bad!"



I recognize there are two different rules, one for each gender, which is illustrated by HotWingConspiracy's court case of the LSU fan versus the Alabama fan whether HWC wants to acknowledge it or not.

As for drawing on a drunken person, the drunken person did not consent.  By making exceptions to the rule, one confuses the rules.  Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are.  Trying to parse shiat with 'well, this isn't as bad as this' always leads to differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal and what isn't.

And, again, if the guys were also drunk, all bets should be off. Except that they aren't.  Suck it up.
 
2013-03-19 10:35:00 AM  

publikenemy: sevente: publikenemy: I heard that the black lawyer said something to the effect of "if only you chose to hang with only your black friends that night. We totally could've beat this thing if your co-defendant were black. I could've used my handy dandy "rush-to-judgement racism" card, and we coulda beat this thing."...and he would have had many supporters. Including here on good ol' Fark

Did you even read what you just typed or did the stupid just fall out on to the keyboard?


Idk what world you live in, but this defense is used every day. To the point where the word hardly has meaning anymore


I did feel sorry for that kid (Malik?) when I found out his dad had been in prison. Who was around to teach him to be a proper man? Obviously not his football coaches.
 
2013-03-19 10:36:51 AM  

I_C_Weener: ExperianScaresCthulhu: For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK. She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.

Your concern for her well being is noted.  Can you please back off a lot and realize that this case isn't about you?


I dunno. It kind of sounds like it is. FWIW I have him farkied as a Rapeublican now.
 
2013-03-19 10:41:06 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jorn the Younger: Honest question: Do you actually not recognise the difference between drawing someone with a sharpie and sexual assault?  Because that seems to be what you're saying here.   "Yes a girl was raped, but someone drew a Hitler mustache on me when I passed out, that's just as bad!"


I recognize there are two different rules, one for each gender, which is illustrated by HotWingConspiracy's court case of the LSU fan versus the Alabama fan whether HWC wants to acknowledge it or not.

As for drawing on a drunken person, the drunken person did not consent.  By making exceptions to the rule, one confuses the rules.  Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are.  Trying to parse shiat with 'well, this isn't as bad as this' always leads to differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal and what isn't.

And, again, if the guys were also drunk, all bets should be off. Except that they aren't.  Suck it up.


Ok, so you don't understand the difference.  Thanks for answering.

So you know, referring to rape as "shenanigans" isn't going to win you very many friends.
 
2013-03-19 10:42:26 AM  

Madame Ovary: publikenemy: sevente: publikenemy: I heard that the black lawyer said something to the effect of "if only you chose to hang with only your black friends that night. We totally could've beat this thing if your co-defendant were black. I could've used my handy dandy "rush-to-judgement racism" card, and we coulda beat this thing."...and he would have had many supporters. Including here on good ol' Fark

Did you even read what you just typed or did the stupid just fall out on to the keyboard?


Idk what world you live in, but this defense is used every day. To the point where the word hardly has meaning anymore

I did feel sorry for that kid (Malik?) when I found out his dad had been in prison. Who was around to teach him to be a proper man? Obviously not his football coaches.


Um..... I'm guessing the same people who teach all the other fatherless kids not to rape? I mean.... wth? Why does this even need to be explained?
 
2013-03-19 10:43:15 AM  

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?


Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".


Just one of many reasons why I roll my eye in other threads when people cite the UCR as if it were Holy Writ.  The UCR only handles a limited number of crimes under very specific definitions through a system of voluntary self-reporting by law-enforcement agencies that choose to cooperate.

However, the flaws of the UCR system have nothing to do with the prosecution of sexual offenses not performed in conjunction with kidnapping or other inter-state crimes.  If local cops won't prosecute, then blame the lazy donut chuggers who made the call, not the guys who designed an annual voluntary data reporting system.
 
2013-03-19 10:44:12 AM  

Jorn the Younger: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jorn the Younger: Honest question: Do you actually not recognise the difference between drawing someone with a sharpie and sexual assault?  Because that seems to be what you're saying here.   "Yes a girl was raped, but someone drew a Hitler mustache on me when I passed out, that's just as bad!"


I recognize there are two different rules, one for each gender, which is illustrated by HotWingConspiracy's court case of the LSU fan versus the Alabama fan whether HWC wants to acknowledge it or not.

As for drawing on a drunken person, the drunken person did not consent.  By making exceptions to the rule, one confuses the rules.  Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are.  Trying to parse shiat with 'well, this isn't as bad as this' always leads to differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal and what isn't.

And, again, if the guys were also drunk, all bets should be off. Except that they aren't.  Suck it up.

Ok, so you don't understand the difference.  Thanks for answering.

So you know, referring to rape as "shenanigans" isn't going to win you very many friends.


I guess you don't need to make friends when you just rape whoever happens to be lying around. Saves on date expenses and avoids that whole pesky condom thing.
 
2013-03-19 10:44:28 AM  
ExperianScaresCthulhu:

Because Men Are Responsible For Their Actions.  Men have the mental fortitude to look out for themselves, and take care of themselves and make decisions for themselves.

Women... do not.  And a large segment of the population is most comfortable with women not being responsible for anything.


Yeah, isn't that why we pay them $.72 on the dollar?
 
2013-03-19 10:48:27 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: A dude who gets blackout drunk is told to suck it up, and his frat brothers and high school classmates are not called rapists when the pictures get out the next day.

Because Men Are Responsible For Their Actions. Men have the mental fortitude to look out for themselves, and take care of themselves and make decisions for themselves.

Women... do not. And a large segment of the population is most comfortable with women not being responsible for anything.


You are a very damaged individual. Do you have any insight as to why? Have you tried to find out, because I for one would like to find out whatever the hell it was that caused you to view the world this way, so I can have some sort of benefit concert or rubber bracelet campaign in order to ensure it never happens to anyone else.

Seriously, you would like victims to take more ownership of their rape? Acknowledge that everyone did something wrong and both sides can forgive, forget and move on with a smile, because now they have some nice new, amusing rape anecdotes to tell at parties?

Sexual assault is 100% not, never under any circumstances, the responsibility of the raped.
High on shrooms and wandering naked round the bar, stupid thing to do (IMHO) but if you are Sexual assaulted it is still because of the rapist.
Had sex with 4 out of 5 boys at a party and say no to the 5th? Not behaviour I'd personally recommend, but if you are then assaulted it is still because of the rapist.
And, seriously, to claim there is any sort of gender bias at play is completely and utterly insane. The gender of the people doesn't change the one incontrovertible fact of the matter, in any sexual act both (all, if that is your thing) parties must be able to consent. If anyone can't (or doesn't) then stop what you are doing and go find someone who will or a nice inanimate object which doesn't have to.
If the person you are with is too drunk to say yes, that is the same as saying no. If the person you are with is so high they think you are Jim Morrison and it might be a yes... Wait until they land, give them plenty of water and somewhere safe to sleep it off and at some later point, when they are certain of who you are, confirm it was a yes and then have your fun.
Seriously, not raping (or sexually assaulting) people is really easy.
 
2013-03-19 10:51:33 AM  
I just listened to a call in news show (on NPR of all places) where a man called in and said he "hoped he wouldn't have done something like that if the opportnity presented itself when he was younger but, well, boys will be boys". I'm sorry but from 18-22 I lived in a crazy party house where someone was as wasted as that girl at least once or twice a week and nothing like that ever happened nor would it have been allowed to happen. Too many people are excusing the behavior and blaming the victim. I just don't see how you can be so lacking in empathy that you not only let something like this happen but make the victim the butt of jokes. I know it is not something new and has happened probably for as long as humans have gathered in tribes but I just don't get it.
 
2013-03-19 10:51:48 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.


.......I just don't agree with where you're going with it.  Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out?  Or is that just on the same level as 'possibly penetrating her anally'?

/To Young Men:  Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men


This explains a lot.
 
2013-03-19 10:53:08 AM  
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-03-19 10:54:49 AM  

LovingTeacher: I just listened to a call in news show (on NPR of all places) where a man called in and said he "hoped he wouldn't have done something like that if the opportnity presented itself when he was younger but, well, boys will be boys". I'm sorry but from 18-22 I lived in a crazy party house where someone was as wasted as that girl at least once or twice a week and nothing like that ever happened nor would it have been allowed to happen. Too many people are excusing the behavior and blaming the victim. I just don't see how you can be so lacking in empathy that you not only let something like this happen but make the victim the butt of jokes. I know it is not something new and has happened probably for as long as humans have gathered in tribes but I just don't get it.


I like you. Welcome to TF.
 
2013-03-19 10:55:32 AM  

I_C_Weener: ExperianScaresCthulhu: For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK. She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.

Your concern for her well being is noted.  Can you please back off a lot and realize that this case isn't about you?


Ah, but it is. The whole thing here is the fear of the dimunition of male power. Raping the town slut used to be an accepted male privilege - and it is being taken away, leading to the fear :"What next? What male power will be stripped from us in the future?"
Just like the hillbilly who argued "Well, if we let them ride in the front of the bus, won't they want into our schools? And if we allow that, won't they want to marry our daughters?"
The weak and insecure man instinctively knows that without artificial male privilege, he is just a scared punk with nothing. It's sad, but it's not uncommon. I don't hold it against them - they are to be pitied.
They really do think they are the "real" victims.
 
2013-03-19 10:59:35 AM  

ADHD Librarian: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

On of the reason that other girls (and women) are often the most vocal when it comes to victim shaming is a rather unfortunate quirk of human psychology. When (some) girls look at this situation they see something which seems familiar to them, they too have had too much to drink at a party or trusted some boy more than they should. Yet, they have not been raped. Rather than look at this as normal (seriously girls, most of us men have a 100% success in not raping anyone), or as fortunate (yes, not 100% of men manage to die without having raped someone), the human brain tries to find a reason. So, 'obviously' they were not raped when they passed out at the party because {{insert rationalisation here}}. t may be because they 'didn't dress like that' or didn't 'lead them on' or 'flirt' or because everyone knows they are not like 'that'...
As such, their own sense of security comes from a fallacy of their own imagining which requires the rape victim to have had some hand in her own situation. After all, if it isn't partially her fault, why, it is almost like it could happen to anyone?

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?
//I am not saying that the situation with these two boys is such a case
///sometimes it is bloody obvious who the perpetrator(s) is (are)


Thanks for this! "If it wasn't her fault, then it could have happened to me"
 
2013-03-19 11:03:26 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out?


Now, I am going to try 'sane' here (try it, you may like it) and accept that you have said this because someone suggested she may have been drugged.
BUT!
At the point she has passed out (be it from Vodak, pills she took, pills someone slipped in her soda water...)
At that point she is unable to consent and as such it is not time for sexytime. Sure you may argue "Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are." Oh, wait, you did you giant steaming moran. But, in fact some shenanigans involving the drunken are in fact illegal and at this point in time drawing Harry Potter glasses and a lightning bolt scar on someone is in the 'legal' column while 'sexual assault' is not.
Really, I could use your logic to suggest that either all sexual encounters involving a penis and a vagina are off-limits, or none are. After all, we don't want to confuse people. How is a young boy supposed to understand that one vagina lets him in but a different one might not. Let alone that his girlfriend allows him to have sex with her once in her bed but gets all upset when he tries it on the dinner table when he is meeting her parents. Really isn't that just differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal?
 
2013-03-19 11:06:19 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: /To Young Men:  Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men


Why not. When we had house parties in college, we had both men and women there. Underaged and of age. We tried to keep the noise down, if someone got too drunk, the worst we'd do is pose them funny or outline them with beer bottles. Most of the time, we'd make sure they found a comfortable place to sleep it off. Surprisingly, amidst all these claims of "Rape Society" and "Crying Rape" and "All Men are rapists" and "All Women are lying whores" no one who ever came to our drinking parties was ever touched inappropriately, molested, raped, hurt or otherwise.
 
2013-03-19 11:08:01 AM  
ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?


A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.
 
2013-03-19 11:08:27 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I recognize there are two different rules, one for each gender, which is illustrated by HotWingConspiracy's court case of the LSU fan versus the Alabama fan whether HWC wants to acknowledge it or not.


Wrong, you just don't understand that in most states a sexual motivation is required to bring sex assault charges. If you'd like to argue these guys weren't motivated by sex, go for it.

I still ruined your assertion.
 
2013-03-19 11:09:54 AM  
You know what's laughable about this entire thread...

The biggest point about being black out drunk are the people who think when someone says "Don't get black out drunk or you could get raped"

is interpreting that as "that internet meanie says black out drunk is asking for rape so it's blaming the victim and justifying rape culture"

when the reality is:

It's not asking to get raped, no one asks to get raped... And it's not implied... What the reality is, it opens the door of opportunistic rapists to rape... To them, it's an opportunity, one they couldn't take if the playing field was leveled. That makes them cowardly scum rapists instead of aggressive asshole rapists...

No one is justifying what they did except controversy stirring media shills... And no one is BLAMING the victim...

The argument about pass out drinking is this:
It doesn't matter if you are male, or female, getting so drunk you pass out is an opportunity for scumbags. Some scumbags might just vandalize your face, which may or may not be emotionally traumatizing... Some scumbags will pose you for scandalous pictures and post them on the internet... The truly evil scumbags will rape you...

So the advice is: Don't get pass out drunk, because while there's no excuse for people being scumbags, telling  people that to do that makes them scumbags isn't going to stop them from being scumbags, that's why they are scumbags...

You can't just get on the internet and berate a bunch of people and tell them they are a murder culture and to not to murder and expect the murder rate to drop... Murders will still happen, but as a society, we have a general idea on how to avoid getting murdered... such as, don't fark your best friends wife... it could get you murdered... don't screw over your drug dealer, it WILL get you murdered... don't wear rival gang colors when you're on someone else's turf, you could get murdered... that's not blaming the victim or potential victims, it's trying to get people to not get murdered...

We are trying to help people not get raped... it's not easy to identify rapists, they don't dress in special clothes, there's no gang signs or colors for rapists, and they don't walk around with raging rapist hard ons... so we advise, rapists could be anywhere, and we don't want you to get raped, so please don't get so drunk you pass out, because you might not get raped the first time, or the fifth time, but the risk of getting raped is probably hundreds of times higher than when you aren't passed out...

Risky behavior is a numbers game before something catastrophic happens... just ask Steve Irwin
 
2013-03-19 11:10:46 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.

Different crime.  When Mr. Happy is damaged, the man is unquestionably wronged.  No one asks whether he wanted it.

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


Inflicted amputation isn't rape -- it's mayhem. They are different crimes.
 
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