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(Fox 8 Cleveland)   You thought it was over? Two Steubenville girls arrested for tweeting threats against the Steubenville rape victim. Sick tag unresponsive in a corner somewhere   (fox8.com) divider line 506
    More: Followup, Steubenville, rape victim, Mike DeWine  
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14187 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2013 at 1:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 11:56:22 PM
F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.
 
2013-03-19 12:02:09 AM

SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.


Oh, just stick around in the thread.  You'll see lots here.  Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.

Makes me farking sick.
 
2013-03-19 12:03:32 AM
WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?
 
2013-03-19 12:03:52 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh, just stick around in the thread. You'll see lots here. Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.

Makes me farking sick.


Oh I lurked in the verdict thread. I saw enough to last a lifetime.
 
2013-03-19 12:05:11 AM
What gets me is that the major reason the state was able to make a case against the duo is because they and their friends tweeted/instagrammed/youtubed all about it, and these two girls apparently didn't get the message to not say stupid stuff that could get you in trouble with the law on easily traceable social networks.

Really, it's astounding how many members of today's youth think that what they say/post on any social network can't come back to bite them in the ass.
 
2013-03-19 12:05:30 AM
So does this mean we can legally rape the tweeters?

I mean after we sufficiently ply them with alcohol of course.
 
2013-03-19 12:05:51 AM

Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?


Bet they're cheerleaders.
 
2013-03-19 12:06:43 AM
Girls making threats against a rape victim? Who knew Ben Roethlisberger still had fans after last year's performance?
 
2013-03-19 12:10:44 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Really, it's astounding how many members of today's youth think that what they say/post on any social network can't come back to bite them in the ass.


It's not just the idiot kids. How many of your Facebook friends posted that idiotic faux-legalese about "photo copyrights" that they cross-their-hearts-and-hope-to-die KNEW would magically undo the "tl;dr" end-user contract they agreed to with the site and prevent Evil Zuckerberg from making even more billions by using the blurry photo of their cats posted on the timeline?

But, yes, these kids *are* layering on a bonus level of weapons-grade stupidity considering the convictions happened in large part to the criminals courteously posting the evidence of their crime for the police.
 
2013-03-19 12:11:15 AM
Rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape.


/rape
 
2013-03-19 12:12:21 AM
It's basically time to burn Steubenville to the ground and salt the earth so nothing grows again there, isn't it?
 
2013-03-19 12:17:17 AM
Seriously, you could just go on cha-cha and get the name right now. Hiding the girl is the exact opposite of what they should have done.

People are stupid, and if you look like you're hiding something, they'll side against you. Or simply, out of sight, out of mind.
 
2013-03-19 12:18:47 AM

GAT_00: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

Bet they're cheerleaders.


Stereotyping? From my GAT_00? It's more disappointing than you think.
 
2013-03-19 12:22:13 AM
By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.
 
2013-03-19 12:28:12 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh, just stick around in the thread. You'll see lots here. Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.

Makes me farking sick.


You mean a girl named Poppy is an abject idiot and CNN ran with it? I'm shocked!
 
2013-03-19 12:29:13 AM

Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.


Different crime.  When Mr. Happy is damaged, the man is unquestionably wronged.  No one asks whether he wanted it.

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.
 
2013-03-19 12:32:54 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.

Different crime.  When Mr. Happy is damaged, the man is unquestionably wronged.  No one asks whether he wanted it.

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


You're mad because I used "misanthropic" in a sentence, aren't you.
 
2013-03-19 12:33:45 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: GAT_00: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

Bet they're cheerleaders.

Stereotyping? From my GAT_00? It's more disappointing than you think.


omnibus_necanda_sunt: Seriously, you could just go on cha-cha and get the name right now. Hiding the girl is the exact opposite of what they should have done.

People are stupid, and if you look like you're hiding something, they'll side against you. Or simply, out of sight, out of mind.


Yeah, I'm going to consider valid the opinion of someone who thinks the problem with all of this is that we haven't made a spectacle out of the victim for being raped.
 
2013-03-19 12:36:43 AM
Goddamn. People can sure be stupid, heartless assholes.
 
2013-03-19 12:39:33 AM

Snarfangel: You're mad because I used "misanthropic" in a sentence, aren't you.


No, I'm mad because of the double standard of a rape case.  Not at you.

BTW, though - and this is not snark, it's a continuation on your point - do you think things would be different if it were a case of a man being raped?  I thought men were really terrible to male rape victims.
 
2013-03-19 12:43:21 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: TuteTibiImperes: Really, it's astounding how many members of today's youth think that what they say/post on any social network can't come back to bite them in the ass.

It's not just the idiot kids. How many of your Facebook friends posted that idiotic faux-legalese about "photo copyrights" that they cross-their-hearts-and-hope-to-die KNEW would magically undo the "tl;dr" end-user contract they agreed to with the site and prevent Evil Zuckerberg from making even more billions by using the blurry photo of their cats posted on the timeline?

But, yes, these kids *are* layering on a bonus level of weapons-grade stupidity considering the convictions happened in large part to the criminals courteously posting the evidence of their crime for the police.


I was seeing that post so much for a while that I had the snopes page about it bookmarked for easy copy/pasting
 
2013-03-19 12:43:40 AM

Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.


The scenario there is more than a little bit different.  If they had mutilated her genitals I believe it would be much harder for anyone to come out in support of them.

Now, if two women had taken a passed-out drunken guy and had their way with him sexually, I think you'd find a lot of men laughing at the guy for pressing charges and a lot of people saying things like 'wow, lucky him, where were girls like that when I was in high school'.
 
2013-03-19 12:50:15 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: You're mad because I used "misanthropic" in a sentence, aren't you.

No, I'm mad because of the double standard of a rape case.  Not at you.

BTW, though - and this is not snark, it's a continuation on your point - do you think things would be different if it were a case of a man being raped?  I thought men were really terrible to male rape victims.


As bad as it still is for women who are victims of rape, it is actually worse if a man gets raped by a woman.  The almost universal reaction is of disbelief.

Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.  Women get harassed for making a claim quite often, and other women discredit real claims by falsely crying rape without any real consequence.

And even with all of that, it's still better than it was 10 years ago.  Pretty sad state all around.
 
2013-03-19 12:53:01 AM
Just when you thought Steubenville couldn't get any classier.
 
2013-03-19 12:57:28 AM

SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.


The entire town was blowing off doing anything til Anonymous amped up the international pressure. It was a little dorkysh*t town on lockdown that loved its football more than the law, and this was true for weeks.

Go back and read the whole history of this thing. The youtube vid ("She is *so raped*) was up for weeks, local police did nothing. Coach did nothing. Town did nothing.

Sh*theel local politics and good-ol-boy bullcrap in a famously football-centric town were winning out until international lights were shone, which is where Anonymous came in.
 
2013-03-19 01:22:38 AM
 
2013-03-19 01:24:59 AM
I say we take off and nuke the entire site (Ohio) from orbit, just to be sure.
 
2013-03-19 01:25:29 AM
Time to nuke.
 
2013-03-19 01:25:51 AM
hell in a handbasket i tell ya! that's where this country is headed.
 
2013-03-19 01:27:02 AM
Remind me again how playing high school sports builds character.
 
2013-03-19 01:27:04 AM
I mean, you can't teach empathy or class, but for Christ's sake why haven't these soulless assholes learned to stop posting this shiat on the internet!
 
2013-03-19 01:29:19 AM
This whole athlete worship thing is just a cover for an alien breeding program to create the finest, stupidest meat humans possible. You see, the town jocks are regarded as studs that are meant to breed the womenfolk of the town and it's their duty to rape their way to a fine crop of beefy delicious yokels.
 
2013-03-19 01:29:24 AM

CWeinerWV: I mean, you can't teach empathy or class, but for Christ's sake why haven't these soulless assholes learned to stop posting this shiat on the internet!


these are talking monkeys, not humans. they aren't that smart, and don't have the compassion that a human would have,
 
2013-03-19 01:29:46 AM
I wonder what their FARK handles are?
 
2013-03-19 01:30:44 AM
Athletics trumps all when it comes to young society.
 
2013-03-19 01:31:34 AM
Step one: remove rape victim and her family from Steubenville area.
Step two: nuke Steubenville from orbit.
problem solved
 
2013-03-19 01:31:53 AM
"Rape" victim
 
2013-03-19 01:32:11 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Just when you thought Steubenville couldn't get any classier.


Everybody loves somebody, sometime. It's just that sometimes they're unconscious.
 
2013-03-19 01:33:14 AM
Steubenville: I live (relatively) right up the road, and I am ashamed.

/don't blame the place, blame the ignorant people.
//jocks and athletic supporters (pun intended) are assholes.
 
2013-03-19 01:33:26 AM
One 16-year-old female is in custody as is a 15-year-old female.

Excellent reporting.
 
2013-03-19 01:33:47 AM
l3.yimg.com

I don't get it. How can he be guilty? Look at what he's wearing! And he doesn't even play golf!
 
2013-03-19 01:33:55 AM
If you get drunk and pass out at a party then you deserve whatever happens to you.  Of course, that should be things like having a mustache drawn on your face or having your hand put in a bowl of warm water or tying your shoes together.  Being sexually groped or molested or raped are NOT on the approved list of things you can do to someone who is drunk and passed out.  Castrate the two monsters.  Then fry 'em up and make them eat it.
 
2013-03-19 01:34:22 AM
Stories like this makes me happy that I never got into sports.  I can't imagine being so devoted to a sport that all who are involved are such heroes that they are above the law and anyone who reports them for rape becomes the subject of death threats.  "Sorry you got raped, but your rapers are BETTER people than you because they can play a sport, so keep your mouth shut and don't ruin their promising careers."

At what point do we put this girl and her family into some sort of witness protection program, because that's apparently what's going to be needed at this point.  I'm taking bets that by Friday someone will have attempted an attack on her, or actually attacked her.
 
2013-03-19 01:34:23 AM

puffy999: Athletics trumps all when it comes to young society.


The ability to understand advanced mathematics or chemistry is nothing compared to running, jumping, catching,rolling over, and fetching.
 
2013-03-19 01:35:21 AM
It's always a bad sign when a small town is proud of it's high school football heritage.  The last thing you should do is make celebrities out of a bunch of 17 year old boys.
Really, also, just shiatty parenting all the way around.
 
2013-03-19 01:35:30 AM

GungFu: [l3.yimg.com image 630x427]

I don't get it. How can he be guilty? Look at what he's wearing! And he doesn't even play golf!


They're hoping that sweater vest will convince the judge that he is actually a homosexual.
 
2013-03-19 01:35:40 AM
An I know this isnt all cases but women/girls are so amazingly brutal towards each other especially in things like this, some odd lack of empathy that becomes aggression towards some victims
 
2013-03-19 01:36:03 AM

Therion: I say we take off and nuke the entire site (Ohio) from orbit, just to be sure.


As someone who lives directly on the other side of the river, I support this.  Say what you want about WV but it's rednecks on one side in PA and these types next door in Ohio that make this area look horrendous.

Honestly, other than people associated with the school, people in this area don't support the cover-up.  We were outraged, just powerless against it.  People around here are tired of the violent crime, drug problem, and break-ins/robberies that go unreported, and this is the icing on the cake.  Without the national spotlight it would've been swept under the rug by people associated with the school, because there's an incestuous relationship between the school and those in power in the area.  You only hear the idiots, you don't hear all the people that wanted this pursued, or wanted to speak up but were afraid for this very reason.  Obviously I'm not talking about the ones that refused to cooperate because of being associated with the act, but those that may have had knowledge or wanted to bring attention to it but didn't feel safe enough to speak up.
 
2013-03-19 01:36:03 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: "Rape" victim


"Intelligent" comment.
 
2013-03-19 01:36:24 AM
Wow, high profile case, then you threaten the victim. Gaining unwanted negative attention didn't cross their minds?!
 
2013-03-19 01:37:25 AM

CWeinerWV: I mean, you can't teach empathy or class, but for Christ's sake why haven't these soulless assholes learned to stop posting this shiat on the internet!


My first thought on seeing your post

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15052506/images/130640 73 91502.jpg  (NSFW)
 
2013-03-19 01:41:41 AM

BunkoSquad: It's basically time to burn Steubenville to the ground and salt the earth so nothing grows again there, isn't it?


That's a start. I propose the following:
-Life in prison as well as surgical castration and penectomy for the rapists
-Tithe the incomes of the population of Steubenville to pay for anything the victim might need at a rate of 25% per year. Make any attempt to fight this decree punishable by seizure of ALL assets
-Do same for anyone posting support for the rapists in social media or any other forum and for the talking heads at CNN et al who doubtless deliberately leaked the victim's name
Americans are very big on rape, and the only thing that will cure this fetish is constant, permanent punishment for those who indulge in it, be it through the actual act or by showing support for the act and its perpetrators.
 
2013-03-19 01:42:43 AM

WillofJ2: An I know this isnt all cases but women/girls are so amazingly brutal towards each other especially in things like this, some odd lack of empathy that becomes aggression towards some victims


I had a cousin when I was younger explain to me that when boys/men fight, it's a physical slug fest and it's pretty much over.  Girls/Women are nastier when they fight because they don't go for the quick fight and it's over with.  They fight long term, they get nasty, dirty, there are no limits to what they will do to each other.
 
2013-03-19 01:43:55 AM

GreenSun: Wow, high profile case, then you threaten the victim. Gaining unwanted negative attention didn't cross their minds?!


Kind of like roaches in a basement no one has been down to in ten years.
 
2013-03-19 01:45:46 AM
WWWD?


/What would Whoopi do?
 
2013-03-19 01:46:37 AM

CWeinerWV: Therion: I say we take off and nuke the entire site (Ohio) from orbit, just to be sure.

As someone who lives directly on the other side of the river, I support this.  Say what you want about WV but it's rednecks on one side in PA and these types next door in Ohio that make this area look horrendous.

Honestly, other than people associated with the school, people in this area don't support the cover-up.  We were outraged, just powerless against it.  People around here are tired of the violent crime, drug problem, and break-ins/robberies that go unreported, and this is the icing on the cake.  Without the national spotlight it would've been swept under the rug by people associated with the school, because there's an incestuous relationship between the school and those in power in the area.  You only hear the idiots, you don't hear all the people that wanted this pursued, or wanted to speak up but were afraid for this very reason.  Obviously I'm not talking about the ones that refused to cooperate because of being associated with the act, but those that may have had knowledge or wanted to bring attention to it but didn't feel safe enough to speak up.


From west Virginia also, and I cringe when I hear the mud slinged in our direction. If people could see what a proud and dignified people we are (mostly), I want to tell them.... but they wont see the light.

/lets meet up, drink some moonglow, and try to come up with a plan. BY GOD! Go mounties!
 
2013-03-19 01:46:51 AM

SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.


It doesn't surprise me a bit.  Popular guys can't be guilty!  Therefore their accuser must be in the wrong and is evil for having framed them for rape.

germ78: Step one: remove rape victim and her family from Steubenville area.
Step two: nuke Steubenville from orbit.
problem solved


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
 
2013-03-19 01:47:41 AM

ReverendJynxed: WWWD?


/What would Whoopi do?


Support the rapists???
 
2013-03-19 01:48:48 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.

Oh, just stick around in the thread.  You'll see lots here.  Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.

Makes me farking sick.


Once again, the Onion is prophetic
 
2013-03-19 01:51:07 AM

GAT_00: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

Bet they're cheerleaders.



Possibly. After all the craziness of the Sandusky trial, I learned just how much jocksniffers are willing to forgive because FOOTBALL!

Fortunately, social media and technology have made it near impossible for idiot criminals to keep their mouths shut.
 
2013-03-19 01:52:44 AM
Interesting.  A state with a significant percentage of functionally illiterate people, and a small town high school therein has 19 football coaches.    Holy crap, America, your priorities are totally farked up.
 
2013-03-19 01:52:52 AM
Goddamnitsomuch.

None of this would have happened if we all just remembered one simple fact. Rape is OK if you play sports.
 
2013-03-19 01:53:15 AM

SilentStrider: Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh, just stick around in the thread. You'll see lots here. Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.

Makes me farking sick.

Oh I lurked in the verdict thread. I saw enough to last a lifetime.


I posted some in the thread about CNN's coverage, but then couldn't stick around because it was making me hate humanity.
 
2013-03-19 01:53:54 AM

ReverendJynxed: WWWD?


/What would Whoopi do?


Depends, was it rape, or rape rape?
 
2013-03-19 01:54:11 AM
What sick little biatches they are.

WTF is wrong with kids these days??
 
2013-03-19 01:56:16 AM

Lorelle: What sick little biatches they are.

WTF is wrong with kids these days??


raised on mtv, simpsons and family guy.

giggity

role models? bill clinton, kobe bryant....
 
2013-03-19 01:56:33 AM

GAT_00: As bad as it still is for women who are victims of rape, it is actually worse if a man gets raped by a woman.  The almost universal reaction is of disbelief.



I know this firsthand. I tries to press charges against the woman who raped me when I was a teenager, and the reactions were always some variation of "congratulations" or "women can't commit rape" (usually both). Literally nobody took me seriously.

/No, it wasn't as enjoyable as you think. She used a dildo.
 
2013-03-19 01:57:46 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: You're mad because I used "misanthropic" in a sentence, aren't you.

No, I'm mad because of the double standard of a rape case.  Not at you.

BTW, though - and this is not snark, it's a continuation on your point - do you think things would be different if it were a case of a man being raped?  I thought men were really terrible to male rape victims.




It's the primary deterent for prison.
prisonsociety.typepad.com
 
2013-03-19 01:57:59 AM
You trolls (future trolls...and past trolls in the other thread) are aware there are Farkettes (including myself) (and Farkers) that have been raped.  Show some respect.  Nothing but love here, yeah!?  <3
 
2013-03-19 01:58:43 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.

Different crime.  When Mr. Happy is damaged, the man is unquestionably wronged.  No one asks whether he wanted it.

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


They all want it.
 
2013-03-19 01:58:59 AM

FunkOut: puffy999: Athletics trumps all when it comes to young society.

The ability to understand advanced mathematics or chemistry is nothing compared to running, jumping, catching,rolling over, and fetching.



You might want to understand a little more biology, there, Professor. Athletic ability is an indicator of strengh, which is attractive in the hunter/gatherer sense. Just like the root of attraction to large breasts and nice hips is indicative of a woman who can have and take care of children more easily.

It's been part of our DNA since the caveman days. Back then, the guys who whined about not getting chicks because they understood advanced math usually froze to death.
 
2013-03-19 01:59:09 AM
High school football, man. It's the worst waste of everybody's time, but people take that shiat seriously and revere the douchebags who play it. Especially in a small town.

High school football makes people in small towns stupid.
 
2013-03-19 02:00:23 AM

the ha ha guy: GAT_00: As bad as it still is for women who are victims of rape, it is actually worse if a man gets raped by a woman.  The almost universal reaction is of disbelief.


I know this firsthand. I tries to press charges against the woman who raped me when I was a teenager, and the reactions were always some variation of "congratulations" or "women can't commit rape" (usually both). Literally nobody took me seriously.

/No, it wasn't as enjoyable as you think. She used a dildo.

blondelogic.typepad.com
 
2013-03-19 02:03:10 AM
farking Ohio. Gotta get outta there.

Seriously, actual humanity has no place here. Just jocksniffing meatheads and the people that blow them. Steubenville is just Columbus and Cleveland and Cinci writ smaller.

If some OSU shiatball was stupid enough to videotape him and his buddies gang raping some passed out coed, the city would riot if you tried to convict them. I'm not even kidding. Bro culture rules supreme here and if you don't constantly suck frat bro/football bro cock constantly, you are basically an outsider.
 
2013-03-19 02:03:16 AM

BunkoSquad: It's basically time to burn Steubenville to the ground and salt the earth so nothing grows again there, isn't it?


If you've ever been to Stuebenville, you'd know it'd been time for the last 50 years.
 
2013-03-19 02:03:22 AM

Skyday: You trolls (future trolls...and past trolls in the other thread) are aware there are Farkettes (including myself) (and Farkers) that have been raped.  Show some respect.  Nothing but love here, yeah!?  <3


Or had someone close to them raped and saw the psychological damage that stayed with her for years and will always be lingering in the back of her mind, no matter what.
 
2013-03-19 02:06:44 AM
America has the moral fiber of India.
 
2013-03-19 02:07:06 AM
If you follow high school sports as an adult, you need to get a farking life.
 
2013-03-19 02:08:09 AM
When rape is outlawed, only outlaws will...ah farkit, this news just plain sucks.
 
2013-03-19 02:09:26 AM

johnsmith99: It's always a bad sign when a small town is proud of it's high school football heritage.  The last thing you should do is make celebrities out of a bunch of 17 year old boys.
Really, also, just shiatty parenting all the way around.


This. Football alone didn't cause this, anymore than football caused the Penn State rapes. It's when entire communities decide that the school sports program is their meaning for existence that anything that could disrupt it gets brushed aside (if you're lucky) or stomped down (if you're not). Not only does it lead to crap like this, but it leaves a truly farked-up mindset in the people who graduate and then spend the rest of their lives in the same town thinking nothing they ever do will ever be as important as being a 17-year-old playing a game. After a couple of generations of raising kids in an environment like that and you have a community that isn't too far removed morally from Lord of the Flies.

You know, I don't look at every grad of Penn State as automatically complicit in the Sandusky/Paterno case, but this? The way so many in the school, the town, the police, and the local government all deliberately tried to make this go away, never giving a damn for anything but the image of their star athletes? Fark me, this is simply a town that needs to be walled off and left to starve.
 
2013-03-19 02:09:26 AM

GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.


Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.
 
2013-03-19 02:12:18 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it. Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."


The problem is, it's a finding of fact. How do you determine whether a girl changed her mind before, during, or after? How do you determine if a guy had a .12 BAC and a girl had a .09 BAC, and the sex was otherwise consensual, who raped whom? As terrible as it is, there is no way to both be fair to the accuser and maintain a standard of reasonable doubt for the defendant. This is one of the unfortunate facts of life.

**Note that none of the above applies to this case. These guys were smart enough to have multiple witnesses and video evidence, so all questions of fact are conveniently answered for them. The only question now is how good they were at football, apparently.
 
2013-03-19 02:13:19 AM

OgreMagi: Skyday: You trolls (future trolls...and past trolls in the other thread) are aware there are Farkettes (including myself) (and Farkers) that have been raped.  Show some respect.  Nothing but love here, yeah!?  <3

Or had someone close to them raped and saw the psychological damage that stayed with her for years and will always be lingering in the back of her mind, no matter what.


Exactly.
 
2013-03-19 02:15:09 AM
Benevolent Misanthrope: 

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.



She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town
 
2013-03-19 02:15:34 AM

cmb53208: If you follow high school sports as an adult, you need to get a farking life.


They have lives, just not ones they like. For a lot of the hardcore high school football fans in my hometown, their days playing ball were the best their lives were or ever will get. Once they realized they wouldn't be Super Bowl heroes by age 20, they settled into a slow boil of a crap job, an annoying wife, dumb kids, and no hope for escape.

Those ten Friday nights a year are practically all they have.
 
2013-03-19 02:16:17 AM

cmb53208: If you follow high school sports as an adult, you need to get a farking life.


This.

I hope the feds put the girl in the witness protection program. I know it doesn't work like that, but she needs a whole new life after this.
 
2013-03-19 02:16:34 AM

Codenamechaz: Benevolent Misanthrope: SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.

Oh, just stick around in the thread.  You'll see lots here.  Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.

Makes me farking sick.

Once again, the Onion is prophetic


Wow cnn should play that to its people watch this may give them hope

Great Janitor: WillofJ2: An I know this isnt all cases but women/girls are so amazingly brutal towards each other especially in things like this, some odd lack of empathy that becomes aggression towards some victims

I had a cousin when I was younger explain to me that when boys/men fight, it's a physical slug fest and it's pretty much over.  Girls/Women are nastier when they fight because they don't go for the quick fight and it's over with.  They fight long term, they get nasty, dirty, there are no limits to what they will do to each other.


Yeah, the whole hell fury women scorned thing especially towards another woman, was one of the craziest things about dorm life in college saw wicked things.
 
2013-03-19 02:16:46 AM

cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope:
When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town


Are you seriously defending rapists... because "she was a slut" and "football". You belong in this state.
 
2013-03-19 02:17:58 AM
I will agree I don't have much good to say about that part of Ohio, but maybe the problem is football. Why does Notre Dame still have a football team and the same question for Steubenville. I enjoy participating in team sports and strategy makes football about the only sport I could imagine watching if I had time. However, the collateral damage from HS and NCAA is unacceptable and do not even consider the damage caused by the "pros."
 
2013-03-19 02:17:59 AM
AND, this is why, when I get raped, I don't go blabbin' my business to everybody. It's a wonder I haven't been knocked up yet.
 
2013-03-19 02:20:31 AM

cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope: 

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town


Oh, look.  Another moron defending the rapists.  No, she is 0% responsible for getting rape.  When you pass out drunk with supposed friends, you get sharpie moustache picture posted on facebook that you laugh about the next day.  You don't get dragged unconscious from party to party, half naked, and sexually abused.

The blame is on the rapists, their parents for not teaching them right from wrong, and the community for creating and encouraging this kind of behavior.
 
2013-03-19 02:21:04 AM
GungFu:

l3.yimg.com
I don't get it. How can he be guilty? Look at what he's wearing! And he doesn't even play golf!

Ooohhhhh, but look at that darkie next to him. Tell me that ain't the guilty look of a rapin', stank-fanger player. He's looking at the little white girl, and still trying to taste what's left off his thumb.
 
2013-03-19 02:21:22 AM

Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.


It happens. Nobody knows how often it happens, but it definitely happens. While the words "cry rape" are pretty insensitive, the fact remains that it is hard to prove that any particular woman was "date raped". (God, how I hate that term.)
So, WTF can we do about it? We can't assume that any accuser is automatically telling the truth. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically lying. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically exaggerating. We can't read their f*cking minds. Polygraphs are inadmissible in court, for what I can only assume are good reasons. The only thing I know to do is to tell girls to fight. At least if there are physical injuries, there is evidence. Punch, claw, scratch, kick, bite. And accept that you might get your face irreparably smashed in, or your life abruptly ended. WTF, that doesn't work, either.
 
2013-03-19 02:22:41 AM

neongoats: cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope:
When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town

Are you seriously defending rapists... because "she was a slut" and "football". You belong in this state.


Except that Cardex is right.
 
2013-03-19 02:23:27 AM
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
Subdivisions --
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out
 
2013-03-19 02:24:37 AM

cardex: She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town

100% guilty.

FTFY, stupid.
 
2013-03-19 02:25:25 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: neongoats: cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope:
When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town

Are you seriously defending rapists... because "she was a slut" and "football". You belong in this state.

Except that Cardex is right.


Sorry, no. Unless "loves rapists" makes him "right".

I mean, it might make him "right wing" but not "correct".
 
2013-03-19 02:25:56 AM

cardex: She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town


Assholes, assholes everywhere.
 
2013-03-19 02:27:53 AM

Generation_D: Sh*theel local politics and good-ol-boy bullcrap in a famously football-centric town were winning out until international lights were shone, which is where Anonymous came in.


That's a bit surprising to me, given how much Anonymous favors rape.
 
2013-03-19 02:31:05 AM
http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.
 
2013-03-19 02:31:24 AM
Rape rape for EVERYBODY!!!
 
2013-03-19 02:31:30 AM
Ooh, hang on... let me get out my rape apologist red and brand a few more farkers in here.
/just when you think you've got 'em all
 
2013-03-19 02:31:49 AM

stoli n coke: cmb53208: If you follow high school sports as an adult, you need to get a farking life.

They have lives, just not ones they like. For a lot of the hardcore high school football fans in my hometown, their days playing ball were the best their lives were or ever will get. Once they realized they wouldn't be Super Bowl heroes by age 20, they settled into a slow boil of a crap job, an annoying wife, dumb kids, and no hope for escape.

Those ten Friday nights a year are practically all they have.


I really don't understand the mindset of high school football fans in places like Ohio, and yet I grew up in a town where several of the high schools have teams that are routinely competing for the state championships and ranked as some of the best in the nation. Is this a phenomenon that happens when there's nothing else that a town has going for it other than the single high school football team? I mean, where I'm from, people like their high school football and the schools have produced some pretty big names but this whole idea that football is the be all and end all of the town identity where adults relive their glory days is just sad and pathetic.
 
2013-03-19 02:32:23 AM

stoli n coke: cmb53208: If you follow high school sports as an adult, you need to get a farking life.

They have lives, just not ones they like. For a lot of the hardcore high school football fans in my hometown, their days playing ball were the best their lives were or ever will get. Once they realized they wouldn't be Super Bowl heroes by age 20, they settled into a slow boil of a crap job, an annoying wife, dumb kids, and no hope for escape.

Those ten Friday nights a year are practically all they have.



All the more reason to nuke Steubenville from orbit. Put the poor imbeciles who live there out of their misery and make sure they can't cause misery for anyone else. I'm from Saskatchewan, I know what life is like in a small town full of small people. A nuclear holocaust is Christian charity compared to existing in a place where the best you can hope for in life is to be good at high school sports.
 
2013-03-19 02:34:41 AM

TopoGigo: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

It happens. Nobody knows how often it happens, but it definitely happens. While the words "cry rape" are pretty insensitive, the fact remains that it is hard to prove that any particular woman was "date raped". (God, how I hate that term.)
So, WTF can we do about it? We can't assume that any accuser is automatically telling the truth. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically lying. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically exaggerating. We can't read their f*cking minds. Polygraphs are inadmissible in court, for what I can only assume are good reasons. The only thing I know to do is to tell girls to fight. At least if there are physical injuries, there is evidence. Punch, claw, scratch, kick, bite. And accept that you might get your face irreparably smashed in, or your life abruptly ended. WTF, that doesn't work, either.


Sure, it happens.  People are falsely accused of other crimes, but if we get an article about someone running an illegal dog kennel, no one's yelling about how people get falsely accused of illegal dog kennels.

It happens, but it doesn't need to be pointed out in every thread about rape.  A thread about someone falsely accused?  Sure.  A thread about a trial itself, where the truth of the accusation is in question?  Sure.

But here, we have a thread about two asshole girls tweeting at a rape victim, whose attackers have already been found guilty.  What, there, has anything to do with "sometimes women falsely accuse men of rape" other than this sickening notion that in EVERY single thread on this subject, someone has to chime in with "sometimes women falsely accuse men of rape ?"
 
2013-03-19 02:34:41 AM

neongoats: ExperianScaresCthulhu: neongoats: cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope:
When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town

Are you seriously defending rapists... because "she was a slut" and "football". You belong in this state.

Except that Cardex is right.

Sorry, no. Unless "loves rapists" makes him "right".

I mean, it might make him "right wing" but not "correct".


That may be the first time I have ever been called right wing, I do like sucking dick and I know that is one of the main requirements to join the right but my worship of the FSM kicks me back out. And as I said I was not defending the guys could not give 2 shiats about football (or any other sport but I do enjoy the locker room at the gym for other reasons) my point was that the girl did not think it was rape until the entire school started calling her a slut, and several of my friends have kids in her age range and not a single one of them would allow one to go to a party without supervision and would not have called the cops long before the girl had a chance to wake up in a strange house the next day
 
2013-03-19 02:36:23 AM
Time to rename the town to Stupidville yet?
 
2013-03-19 02:36:29 AM

lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.


Ugh... I want to throw up.
 
2013-03-19 02:37:51 AM

Dafatone: But here, we have a thread about two asshole girls tweeting at a rape victim, whose attackers have already been found guilty. What, there, has anything to do with "sometimes women falsely accuse men of rape" other than this sickening notion that in EVERY single thread on this subject, someone has to chime in with "sometimes women falsely accuse men of rape ?"


Well, the thread is about two asshole girls tweeting at a rape victim because they don't believe she's really a victim, because sometimes girls get drunk and falsely accuse men of rape. So, in a very circular reasoning sort of way, it applies. Kind of. Your point is taken, though.
 
2013-03-19 02:39:10 AM

cardex: neongoats: ExperianScaresCthulhu: neongoats: cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope:
When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town

Are you seriously defending rapists... because "she was a slut" and "football". You belong in this state.

Except that Cardex is right.

Sorry, no. Unless "loves rapists" makes him "right".

I mean, it might make him "right wing" but not "correct".

That may be the first time I have ever been called right wing, I do like sucking dick and I know that is one of the main requirements to join the right but my worship of the FSM kicks me back out. And as I said I was not defending the guys could not give 2 shiats about football (or any other sport but I do enjoy the locker room at the gym for other reasons) my point was that the girl did not think it was rape until the entire school started calling her a slut, and several of my friends have kids in her age range and not a single one of them would allow one to go to a party without supervision and would not have called the cops long before the girl had a chance to wake up in a strange house the next day


Right, teenagers never disobey their parents and sneak out to hit a party.

There is a difference here, going to a party and getting drunk is normal for kids. Going to a party, finding a farked up chick and videotaping yourself gang raping her while she is unconscious, that is not normal. And in fact, is wrong. And evil.

And I hope those guys spend their lives getting prison raped. fark that town..
 
2013-03-19 02:41:21 AM

TopoGigo: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

It happens. Nobody knows how often it happens, but it definitely happens. While the words "cry rape" are pretty insensitive, the fact remains that it is hard to prove that any particular woman was "date raped". (God, how I hate that term.)
So, WTF can we do about it? We can't assume that any accuser is automatically telling the truth. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically lying. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically exaggerating. We can't read their f*cking minds. Polygraphs are inadmissible in court, for what I can only assume are good reasons. The only thing I know to do is to tell girls to fight. At least if there are physical injuries, there is evidence. Punch, claw, scratch, kick, bite. And accept that you might get your face irreparably smashed in, or your life abruptly ended. WTF, that doesn't work, either.


Sorry, but I value my life and the intact bones on my face too much to do something that is not likely to result in anything other than me getting seriously injured or killed if I find myself in a situation where I know I'm not going to be able to successfully fight off an attacker. Your approach is why women for centuries couldn't get justice when they were raped. The very fact that a woman survived her rape was used as proof that she must have wanted it because someone who was really wanting to preserve her virtue would have fought back to the point of death.

Your approach is also why women who are raped carry massive amounts of unwarranted guilt with them for years--they've been programmed to believe that if they don't get the crap beat out of them then it's partly their fault because they didn't resist enough.

As horrible a crime as rape is, I'm not going to put my life on the line just to convince a bunch of misogynists that it wasn't consent, and I'm not going to ask anyone else to do so either. That attitude hearkens back to the idea that a woman's virginity was more important than her life.
 
2013-03-19 02:43:16 AM
i1048.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-19 02:43:24 AM

GAT_00: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

Bet they're cheerleaders.


The pic at the bottom of TFA suggests the girl that made the death threat is related to one of the convicted rapists. Not saying its right, but it appears to not just be jock sniffing.
 
2013-03-19 02:44:56 AM

Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?


On of the reason that other girls (and women) are often the most vocal when it comes to victim shaming is a rather unfortunate quirk of human psychology. When (some) girls look at this situation they see something which seems familiar to them, they too have had too much to drink at a party or trusted some boy more than they should. Yet, they have not been raped. Rather than look at this as normal (seriously girls, most of us men have a 100% success in not raping anyone), or as fortunate (yes, not 100% of men manage to die without having raped someone), the human brain tries to find a reason. So, 'obviously' they were not raped when they passed out at the party because {{insert rationalisation here}}. t may be because they 'didn't dress like that' or didn't 'lead them on' or 'flirt' or because everyone knows they are not like 'that'...
As such, their own sense of security comes from a fallacy of their own imagining which requires the rape victim to have had some hand in her own situation. After all, if it isn't partially her fault, why, it is almost like it could happen to anyone?

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?
//I am not saying that the situation with these two boys is such a case
///sometimes it is bloody obvious who the perpetrator(s) is (are)
 
2013-03-19 02:47:31 AM

lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.


Yeah... Wow... It makes you kinda wish for a disease that only kills people with I.Q.s below 120.
 
2013-03-19 02:47:33 AM

GAT_00: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

Bet they're cheerleaders.


...maybe they were the girlfriends of the two guys.  Way to stick up for your men, ladies.

/And set feminism back another couple of decades.
 
2013-03-19 02:48:47 AM
Doesn't surprise me after the whole Paterno thing where people were livid over the fact that their beloved coach was "mistreated". They might have only been a few dozen in a crowd of thousands who just wanted his head... but they were there.

This is what gets me...

People will howl about the evils of video games or half a dozen other things but start talking about the dark underside of sports fanaticism and you're trying to ruin the entirely pure as the driven snow holiness that is sports. The fanatical level of sports enthusiasm creates far more problems for society than the video game set.
 
2013-03-19 02:50:31 AM

BunkoSquad: It's basically time to burn Steubenville to the ground and salt the earth so nothing grows again there, isn't it?


Wow.  That was my exact same thought.  Scary minds thing alike I guess. ;)
 
2013-03-19 02:52:11 AM
This is like the JV version of the Penn State scandal, with a large number of the people in the town doing whatever necessary to protect their precious football team, which has become more like a cult than a recreational activity for kids. Right or wrong, they don't care--if you fark with the team, you must be destroyed.

The football program should be burned to the ground, and the ground salted.
 
2013-03-19 02:53:30 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Seriously, you could just go on cha-cha and get the name right now. Hiding the girl is the exact opposite of what they should have done.


...if you think this incident was bad...imagine how they'd be if anyone who doesn't actually know her could do so? Are you seriously insinuating that, because you could find her name with some hunting, that you should be able to get it without the effort?
 
2013-03-19 02:53:47 AM

cardex: to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town


You might want to get your moral compass degaussed.
 
2013-03-19 02:54:13 AM
Aw crap, somebody else had my burn it to the ground and salt the earth idea.
 
2013-03-19 02:54:38 AM

stoli n coke: cmb53208: If you follow high school sports as an adult, you need to get a farking life.

They have lives, just not ones they like. For a lot of the hardcore high school football fans in my hometown, their days playing ball were the best their lives were or ever will get. Once they realized they wouldn't be Super Bowl heroes by age 20, they settled into a slow boil of a crap job, an annoying wife, dumb kids, and no hope for escape.

Those ten Friday nights a year are practically all they have.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-19 02:55:10 AM
Some of these comments here and other threads remind me when the world cup was in south africa and it seemed like the news just kinda said women are gonna get raped so you may as well  protect yourself, the whole time I was wondering is it really just that inevitable...and were pushing these devices on people, not sure that the device was even real

gistville.com
 
2013-03-19 02:55:56 AM
Settle down, whores
 
2013-03-19 02:58:48 AM
Apparently I'm the only person that RTFA.  So, to repeat:

THE GIRLS THAT MADE THESE THREATS ARE RELATED TO THE CONVICTED RAPISTS. THEY DID NOT DO THIS BECAUSE THEY JUST WORSHIP ATHLETES.

Does this change the fact that this was an extremely Farker up situation? No.
Are you justified in threatening someone because your cousin/ family member got caught raping her? No.
Is it important to get these kinds of details right as Steubenville hopefully starts the process of evolving into a less Farker up,community? Yes!
 
2013-03-19 02:59:49 AM

El_Swino: Interesting. A state with a significant percentage of functionally illiterate people, and a small town high school therein has 19 football coaches. Holy crap, America, your priorities are totally farked up.


When I was in high school we had a football team.  My senior year they lost every game.  I felt somehow proud of that.

ADHD Librarian: As such, their own sense of security comes from a fallacy of their own imagining which requires the rape victim to have had some hand in her own situation. After all, if it isn't partially her fault, why, it is almost like it could happen to anyone?


You raeped that nail but good.
 
2013-03-19 03:02:25 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."


See, the problem most people have is right here.  They think the default is Yes until she says No.  The actual default is No, and even though she can say Yes, that Yes can be revoked at any time before full consummation.

The fine line is whether the man was led to believe an encounter was consensual, but she later regretted it (This, I believe, was the crux of the Kobe Bryant case and at least one of the Roethlisberger cases). In this case, it doesn't even get close to that line; it never even got out of the default No, and by law it couldn't have even if she said Yes.
 
2013-03-19 03:05:34 AM
ADHD Librarian: Nice rant. But I'm guessing you didn't read the tweet. Here it is, because RTFA is hard: "You ripped my family apart, you made my cousin cry, so when I see you it's gonna be homicide."

Yes, that's a threat with a lot of anger towards the victim, but it doesn't blame her for getting raped.
 
2013-03-19 03:06:01 AM
I heard that the black lawyer said something to the effect of "if only you chose to hang with only your black friends that night. We totally could've beat this thing if your co-defendant were black. I could've used my handy dandy "rush-to-judgement racism" card, and we coulda beat this thing."...and he would have had many supporters. Including here on good ol' Fark
 
2013-03-19 03:08:27 AM
WTF is up with kids posting this shiat from their Twitter accounts. Is it *that hard* to use email? Or for something that truly needs to remain private, a note tied to a brick and thrown through a window?
 
2013-03-19 03:08:42 AM

SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.


Codenamechaz: Benevolent Misanthrope: SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.

Oh, just stick around in the thread.  You'll see lots here.  Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.

Makes me farking sick.

Once again, the Onion is prophetic


Came here to post this.
 
2013-03-19 03:09:25 AM

ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?



Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".
 
2013-03-19 03:11:21 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.


All they know is ball, and good....and rape.
 
2013-03-19 03:11:35 AM

publikenemy: I heard that the black lawyer said something to the effect of "if only you chose to hang with only your black friends that night. We totally could've beat this thing if your co-defendant were black. I could've used my handy dandy "rush-to-judgement racism" card, and we coulda beat this thing."...and he would have had many supporters. Including here on good ol' Fark


Did you even read what you just typed or did the stupid just fall out on to the keyboard?
 
2013-03-19 03:13:58 AM

Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.


There is nothing so vile and evil as a teenaged girl. Especially towards other teen girls.
 
2013-03-19 03:15:09 AM

sevente: publikenemy: I heard that the black lawyer said something to the effect of "if only you chose to hang with only your black friends that night. We totally could've beat this thing if your co-defendant were black. I could've used my handy dandy "rush-to-judgement racism" card, and we coulda beat this thing."...and he would have had many supporters. Including here on good ol' Fark

Did you even read what you just typed or did the stupid just fall out on to the keyboard?



Idk what world you live in, but this defense is used every day. To the point where the word hardly has meaning anymore
 
2013-03-19 03:17:19 AM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: ADHD Librarian: Nice rant. But I'm guessing you didn't read the tweet. Here it is, because RTFA is hard: "You ripped my family apart, you made my cousin cry, so when I see you it's gonna be homicide."

Yes, that's a threat with a lot of anger towards the victim, but it doesn't blame her for getting raped.



"You ripped my family apart, you made my cousin cry"

She's either blaming the victim for being raped, or she's blaming the victim for reporting the crime. Either way, she appears to be blaming the victim for not accepting rape as a natural and unavoidable part of life.
 
2013-03-19 03:19:10 AM

ZeroCorpse: lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.

Yeah... Wow... It makes you kinda wish for a disease that only kills people with I.Q.s below 120.


No.  You don't have to be smart to be a decent human being.  I want a disease that kills assholes.
 
2013-03-19 03:20:22 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.


Um, when someone robs you or shoots you or something, you also have to prove:

1. The crime occurred
2. The crime was actually committed by the defendant

This is universally how it works for literally every crime, and does not constitute the defendant "being the one on trial".  People can argue that you gave them something instead of them stealing it when you're accusing them of theft, too, and that defense works about as often as arguing that rape was actually consensual.  Not very often, but sometimes.
 
2013-03-19 03:22:55 AM
Wow. That Tumblr link is heinous. I would be completely okay with euthanizing everyone featured on that blog. Disturbing the kind of prejudice that is so prevalent in this day in age. When you were raised correctly, without a care about differences like race, gender, or sexuality, it is easy to forget that other people are broken in the head. Sick, sad world.
 
2013-03-19 03:23:33 AM

Jim_Callahan: Um, when someone robs you or shoots you or something, you also have to prove:

1. The crime occurred
2. The crime was actually committed by the defendant


Don't you understand that we live in a rape culture! Rape is totally different and doesn't even have to be reported to the police or proven to punish the rapists for life. And of course by rapists I mean men, because all men are rapists!
 
2013-03-19 03:24:41 AM

Jim_Callahan: 1. The crime occurred
2. The crime was actually committed by the defendant


however you don't need defend your character as it won't be an issue.
 
2013-03-19 03:26:12 AM

cardex: [N]ot defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town


For not defending them, you're doing a bang-up job of it.
 
2013-03-19 03:26:23 AM

WhyteRaven74: Jim_Callahan: 1. The crime occurred
2. The crime was actually committed by the defendant

however you don't need defend your character as it won't be an issue.


It will if you accuse someone with enough money to hire a lawyer worth their salt.
 
2013-03-19 03:31:11 AM

stoli n coke: GAT_00: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

Bet they're cheerleaders.


Possibly. After all the craziness of the Sandusky trial, I learned just how much jocksniffers are willing to forgive because FOOTBALL!

Fortunately, social media and technology have made it near impossible for idiot criminals to keep their mouths shut.


Isn't it amazing how much celebrity you can get from being good at crashing into other people?
 
2013-03-19 03:31:25 AM

cardex: And as I said I was not defending the guys


What you said you were doing and what you did are two entirely different things.
 
2013-03-19 03:31:47 AM

doglover: Jim_Callahan: Um, when someone robs you or shoots you or something, you also have to prove:

1. The crime occurred
2. The crime was actually committed by the defendant

Don't you understand that we live in a rape culture! Rape is totally different and doesn't even have to be reported to the police or proven to punish the rapists for life. And of course by rapists I mean men, because all men are rapists!


Yeah.  That was the line.  Definitely done with you.
 
2013-03-19 03:32:01 AM

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?


Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".


You could have just said this is rape rape because she didn't get pregnant
/thanks Obama
 
2013-03-19 03:32:05 AM
publikenemy:

Given that you apparently live in a world where raping while black with black friends is a successful defence I can see why you would struggle with the real world.
 
2013-03-19 03:32:07 AM

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?


Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".


Sure, but you are assuming a gender difference in the rape. What if we have two boys, or two girls?
Statistically much less likely, yet still prosecuted under the same laws.
 
2013-03-19 03:36:52 AM

Moonfisher: ZeroCorpse: lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.

Yeah... Wow... It makes you kinda wish for a disease that only kills people with I.Q.s below 120.

No.  You don't have to be smart to be a decent human being.  I want a disease that kills assholes.


But I poop from there!
 
2013-03-19 03:36:59 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: TuteTibiImperes: Really, it's astounding how many members of today's youth think that what they say/post on any social network can't come back to bite them in the ass.

It's not just the idiot kids. How many of your Facebook friends posted that idiotic faux-legalese about "photo copyrights" that they cross-their-hearts-and-hope-to-die KNEW would magically undo the "tl;dr" end-user contract they agreed to with the site and prevent Evil Zuckerberg from making even more billions by using the blurry photo of their cats posted on the timeline?

But, yes, these kids *are* layering on a bonus level of weapons-grade stupidity considering the convictions happened in large part to the criminals courteously posting the evidence of their crime for the police.


Oh that gets me every time.

I'm a semi-professional photographer (In that, occasionally, people I know ask me to attend events to photograph them) and I've only ever uploaded personal photos and a few samples of my work to Facebook. Why? Because anyone who knows anything about taking photos as a business is that you don't just hand the goddamn things out for free. There are a number of legal means by which a website/person/entity can usurp photos you've taken. Mostly, they involve whatever that entity is being far more deeply pocketed than the photographer, and out-lawyerin'.

Anyone who thinks posting a few sentences on their facebook feed is going to do anything is a fool.
 
2013-03-19 03:37:53 AM

doglover: Jim_Callahan: Um, when someone robs you or shoots you or something, you also have to prove:

1. The crime occurred
2. The crime was actually committed by the defendant

Don't you understand that we live in a rape culture! Rape is totally different and doesn't even have to be reported to the police or proven to punish the rapists for life. And of course by rapists I mean men, because all men are rapists!


Well, if only there were mountains of evidence in this case.

/Oh wait.
 
2013-03-19 03:38:30 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Seriously, you could just go on cha-cha and get the name right now. Hiding the girl is the exact opposite of what they should have done.

People are stupid, and if you look like you're hiding something, they'll side against you. Or simply, out of sight, out of mind.


It's called "protecting the victim's privacy". Don't they usually do this with minors?
 
2013-03-19 03:40:24 AM

rynthetyn: Your approach is also why women who are raped carry massive amounts of unwarranted guilt with them for years--they've been programmed to believe that if they don't get the crap beat out of them then it's partly their fault because they didn't resist enough


I get where you're coming from, but we can't simply lock up everyone at whom a finger is pointed. The presumption of innocence is especially important for such emotionally charged cases.
 
2013-03-19 03:41:07 AM

Abacus9: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Seriously, you could just go on cha-cha and get the name right now. Hiding the girl is the exact opposite of what they should have done.

People are stupid, and if you look like you're hiding something, they'll side against you. Or simply, out of sight, out of mind.

It's called "protecting the victim's privacy". Don't they usually do this with minors?


Yes.
 
2013-03-19 03:42:47 AM

stoli n coke: It's been part of our DNA since the caveman days. Back then, the guys who whined about not getting chicks because they understood advanced math usually froze to death.


Actually, those are the folks who advanced the species, by developing weapons, tools, and so forth. Hell, probably found which hides made for the best clothing in harsh environments, to boot.
 
2013-03-19 03:42:56 AM

ADHD Librarian: Sure, but you are assuming a gender difference in the rape. What if we have two boys, or two girls?



Two boys? Neither are rapists, because "by definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category".

Two girls? Again, neither are rapists, because most women lack the appropriate equipment for "carnal knowledge" (defined by most laws as "penile penetration").
 
2013-03-19 03:45:52 AM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: THE GIRLS THAT MADE THESE THREATS ARE RELATED TO THE CONVICTED RAPISTS


That's nice.

If only this entire f*cked up situation were limited to these two coonts.

And, chances are, if their cousins were random douchebags and not well-known douchebags, they likely wouldn't go to such extremes.
 
2013-03-19 03:49:29 AM

puffy999: stoli n coke: It's been part of our DNA since the caveman days. Back then, the guys who whined about not getting chicks because they understood advanced math usually froze to death.

Actually, those are the folks who advanced the species, by developing weapons, tools, and so forth. Hell, probably found which hides made for the best clothing in harsh environments, to boot.


The smart tribes don't let the guy who makes the best flint arrowheads get killed in a hunting expedition.  His arrowheads mean the difference between wounding and killing an animal.
 
2013-03-19 03:49:31 AM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: ADHD Librarian: Nice rant. But I'm guessing you didn't read the tweet. Here it is, because RTFA is hard: "You ripped my family apart, you made my cousin cry, so when I see you it's gonna be homicide."

Yes, that's a threat with a lot of anger towards the victim, but it doesn't blame her for getting raped.


My nice rant (and, thanks for saying so), was actually less about the specific tweets of TFA and more about the shocked "...and girls..."of the Farker I was replying to. A cry which has been a significant undercurrent to this story, given the reaction of not just girls on twitter, but female news commentators (who have a bit more of a public voice).
 
2013-03-19 04:00:51 AM

sevente: publikenemy:

Given that you apparently live in a world where raping while black with black friends is a successful defence I can see why you would struggle with the real world.


So, you choose to live in a state of denial then. I hear that state is over-crowded..

So do you deny my perfectly clear view that nearly every time we are dealing with a case of white vs black crime, or anything really, that the R word is an almost instinctual response to the question of why this crime or perceived injustice was committed?

To the point of I myself will be called a racist just for noticing this and commenting on it?

Do you not think that just maybe possibly there would've been a goddammed circus frenzy and the rage and sensationalism would not have been at a fevered pitch had both defendants been black?

So you don't agree that their defense lawyers may have asked out loud whether or not the police and prosecution were racist and didn't like the fact that 2 black men had consensual sex with a white girl?.....they would have been obligated to use every defense possible to get them off.

Reminds me of something....historical maybe..

(knock on door)...."open up ma'am, we need to speak to your husband!"

(lady in house)...."he's not home right now..what's this all about?"

(racism police).... "ma'am, your husbands been accused of spreading racist propaganda, now open up or you're gonna need a new door"

(lady in house)...."what!?...what could he possibly have done?"

(racist police)...."he said rap music sucks ma'am...he said it sucked"....here we come ma'am!
 
2013-03-19 04:08:06 AM

Moonfisher: No. You don't have to be smart to be a decent human being. I want a disease that kills assholes.


But then Fark will have no more visitors. :(
 
2013-03-19 04:10:31 AM

stoli n coke: FunkOut: puffy999: Athletics trumps all when it comes to young society.

The ability to understand advanced mathematics or chemistry is nothing compared to running, jumping, catching,rolling over, and fetching.


You might want to understand a little more biology, there, Professor. Athletic ability is an indicator of strengh, which is attractive in the hunter/gatherer sense. Just like the root of attraction to large breasts and nice hips is indicative of a woman who can have and take care of children more easily.

It's been part of our DNA since the caveman days. Back then, the guys who whined about not getting chicks because they understood advanced math usually froze to death.


I think the point was that the priorities at the school are backwards, and that's why these vermin are getting support. Education system fail, and priorities fail.
 
2013-03-19 04:21:23 AM
When the football program gets bad press because of sexual assaults, you need to try extra hard to show more loyalty to said football program. Because it's not about rape, it's about pride in a bunch of guys who can play a game which your identity is sadly dependant upon.
 
2013-03-19 04:21:59 AM
[uptalk inflection-gradient = 4]

I'm here for the gang rape thread...
I'm not sure but I feel like I think rape is bad?  Why don't they like, make rape illegal or something?
We should like... start a petition about making a law against rape...  What do you guys think?

[/uptalk]
 
2013-03-19 04:22:15 AM

johnsmith99: It's always a bad sign when a small town is proud of it's high school football heritage.  The last thing you should do is make celebrities out of a bunch of 17 year old boys.


Better that than celebrate those pansy college teams. Even the deep south isn't as proud of being unedjamacated than Ohioans.
 
2013-03-19 04:23:32 AM

OgreMagi: Skyday: You trolls (future trolls...and past trolls in the other thread) are aware there are Farkettes (including myself) (and Farkers) that have been raped.  Show some respect.  Nothing but love here, yeah!?  <3

Or had someone close to them raped and saw the psychological damage that stayed with her for years and will always be lingering in the back of her mind, no matter what.


To be fair, there's likely some rapists here too.
 
2013-03-19 04:37:35 AM

WillofJ2: An I know this isnt all cases but women/girls are so amazingly brutal towards each other especially in things like this, some odd lack of empathy that becomes aggression towards some victims


There have been several cases here where rape victims have been outed and berated on Facebook, resulting in those responsible going to prison. In every reported case it has been women who did it.
 
2013-03-19 04:38:11 AM

doglover: It will if you accuse someone with enough money to hire a lawyer worth their salt.


One word, relevance. Any time a defense attorney starts digging into whoever was the victim, in a burglary, theft etc the prosecutor just objects citing a lack of relevance. Because it's not relevant. And not going to find many judges who'd overrule the objection, cause they damn well it's not relevant. The one place where it somehow doesn't hold up is rape cases. Or at least in holds up in fewer court rooms. There are judges around who will make due with a single warning about trying to take shots at the character of the victim and if the defense attorney doesn't follow along, it starts getting expensive.
 
2013-03-19 04:39:02 AM

sevente: Ooh, hang on... let me get out my rape apologist red and brand a few more farkers in here.
/just when you think you've got 'em all


Already added 5 of those to my "fav" list, which is starting to look like anything but.

superdude72: WTF is up with kids posting this shiat from their Twitter accounts. Is it *that hard* to use email? Or for something that truly needs to remain private, a note tied to a brick and thrown through a window?


No, don't do that. Keep this shait public. Make it known to the world and let the world decide what to do with these subhuman pieces of trash.
 
2013-03-19 04:40:13 AM

LavenderWolf: Well, if only there were mountains of evidence in this case.


Actually, weren't they .jpgs?
 
2013-03-19 04:40:36 AM

James F. Campbell: But then Fark will have no more visitors. :(


hey, some of us aren't assholes! :D
 
2013-03-19 04:42:11 AM
Football: More important than rape to morons, sluts, and jocksniffers.
 
2013-03-19 04:45:26 AM

Owangotang: Football: More important than rape to morons, sluts, and jocksniffers.


which i really do not understand. I'm not a sporty type of person (i don't have any interest in any specific sporting event) but i have watched numerous sports being played and, after baseball, american football is by far one of the most bloody boring sports out there.
 
2013-03-19 04:48:16 AM

germ78: Step one: remove rape victim and her family from Steubenville area.
Step two: nuke Steubenville from orbit.
problem solved


Seriously, can we start a fund to move the victim and her family away from there?
 
2013-03-19 04:48:21 AM

Owangotang: Football: More important than rape to morons, sluts, and jocksniffers.


Anyone popular is more important.

It's the same phenomenon that makes a poor kid with drugs go to jail for years, while a pop star goes to Betty Ford and gets sympathy in the press. It's the same reason why a family member is never really guilty of a crime, they're victims of The System....

People you like can't do anything wrong. People you don't like need to be punished for existing.
 
2013-03-19 04:50:01 AM

the ha ha guy: She's either blaming the victim for being raped, or she's blaming the victim for reporting the crime. Either way, she appears to be blaming the victim for not accepting rape as a natural and unavoidable part of life.


It is alas very common for families to unite against people who report childhood sexual abuse. "How dare she send dear old Gramps to prison?"
 
2013-03-19 04:50:19 AM

the ha ha guy: GAT_00: As bad as it still is for women who are victims of rape, it is actually worse if a man gets raped by a woman.  The almost universal reaction is of disbelief.


I know this firsthand. I tries to press charges against the woman who raped me when I was a teenager, and the reactions were always some variation of "congratulations" or "women can't commit rape" (usually both). Literally nobody took me seriously.

/No, it wasn't as enjoyable as you think. She used a dildo.


I'm really sorry about what happened to you. No-one should be raped or sexually assaulted by anyone-ever. Unfortunately, people of all genders are capable of doing terrible things.
 
2013-03-19 04:53:11 AM
People are stupid almost beyond belief.  Twitter, Facebook and the like. I love how those things allow those of us who are smart enough to stay away from them to more and more know exactly where and who the really stupid ones are.
 
2013-03-19 04:53:40 AM

ZeroCorpse: Yeah... Wow... It makes you kinda wish for a disease that only kills people with I.Q.s below 120.


So, since mean score is always set to 100, it would eventually kill everyone?
 
2013-03-19 04:53:49 AM
TuteTibiImperes:  'wow, lucky him, where were girls like that when I was in high school'.

This further ties into the treatment of women in the culture, where women simply cannot have an effect on men, or are so perceived.
 
2013-03-19 04:55:51 AM

Cozret: ZeroCorpse: Yeah... Wow... It makes you kinda wish for a disease that only kills people with I.Q.s below 120.

So, since mean score is always set to 100, it would eventually kill everyone?


I fail to see the problem here. Humans suck.
 
2013-03-19 04:59:56 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Owangotang: Football: More important than rape to morons, sluts, and jocksniffers.

Anyone popular is more important.

It's the same phenomenon that makes a poor kid with drugs go to jail for years, while a pop star goes to Betty Ford and gets sympathy in the press. It's the same reason why a family member is never really guilty of a crime, they're victims of The System....

People you like can't do anything wrong. People you don't like need to be punished for existing.


The difference is that no one really clamors for Lindsay Lohan to be spared prosecution, yet whether it is Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Paterno, or these kids from an Ohio H.S. football team people just seem willing to defend them. I'm not sure football is to blame but there is a definite correlation there.
 
2013-03-19 05:00:09 AM

Cozret: ZeroCorpse: Yeah... Wow... It makes you kinda wish for a disease that only kills people with I.Q.s below 120.

So, since mean score is always set to 100, it would eventually kill everyone?


And the problem here is sophomoria, not IQ.
 
2013-03-19 05:01:04 AM
Parts of USA is turning into India.

/don't tip the holy cow
 
2013-03-19 05:06:59 AM

Owangotang: The difference is that no one really clamors for Lindsay Lohan to be spared prosecution, yet whether it is Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Paterno, or these kids from an Ohio H.S. football team people just seem willing to defend them. I'm not sure football is to blame but there is a definite correlation there.


People defended Michael Jackson like mad over allegations of child abuse and blamed the victims and their parents instead.
 
2013-03-19 05:10:43 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Owangotang: The difference is that no one really clamors for Lindsay Lohan to be spared prosecution, yet whether it is Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Paterno, or these kids from an Ohio H.S. football team people just seem willing to defend them. I'm not sure football is to blame but there is a definite correlation there.

People defended Michael Jackson like mad over allegations of child abuse and blamed the victims and their parents instead.


True, however in more recent years football generates more of this type of thing.
 
2013-03-19 05:22:52 AM

WhyteRaven74: One word, relevance. Any time a defense attorney starts digging into whoever was the victim, in a burglary, theft etc the prosecutor just objects citing a lack of relevance. Because it's not relevant. And not going to find many judges who'd overrule the objection, cause they damn well it's not relevant. The one place where it somehow doesn't hold up is rape cases. Or at least in holds up in fewer court rooms. There are judges around who will make due with a single warning about trying to take shots at the character of the victim and if the defense attorney doesn't follow along, it starts getting expensive.


Well, previous sexual behavior _is_ relevant.  Sexual assault is a subset of assault (well, battery in many cases).  Have you ever watched a non-sexual assault proceeding?  Pretty much the first line a defender will take is "well, the other guy started it" and start bringing out the negative character witnesses to make that credible.  This isn't a special thing that only happens in rape cases.

So what I'm saying here isn't that lawyers aren't dicks, that's pretty much a job requirement, it's that you're seeing unequal treatment where there isn't necessarily any.  Defense attourneys overstep the bounds of good taste and malign the character of the accuser all the time, in every kind of criminal and civil proceeding, and unless their degree is from the internet they typically manage to do it in a manner that keeps relevance from being a valid objection.
 
2013-03-19 05:23:39 AM

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?


Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".


That definition is out of date. In 2012, they changed it to "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or  by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." In any event, that definition was used to compile statistics; it didn't have legal force. In jurisdictions using the new definition or something similar, women can rape and men can be raped. Even in those using the old definition, a woman in this situation could be charged with sexual assault, and some degrees of sexual assault would have the same penalties as rape. And some places, like Canada, don't have a specific crime of "rape" - it would be included under sexual assault/aggravated sexual assault, and penetration isn't the issue in determining the crime or the sentence.

In the case of two intoxicated people having sex,  theoretically both could be charged and convicted. But it's important to keep in mind that in most places, it isn't just that fact that someone has been drinking that makes them incapable of consenting. They need to be  significantly impaired, and in practical terms that means if not unconscious, then really quite incoherent/incapacitated. Chances are two people that incapacitated aren't doing much. Then things get really fact-specific - was one of them less impaired than the other? Was one plying the other with drinks? Was one in control of the situation? There may be an assumption (not really a fair one in my opinion) that a man so drunk he can't legally consent can't physically have intercourse, but if such an argument were made in court the defense could counter it with expert witnesses.I  don't actually know of any cases where both people have filed charges against each other (but I haven't really looked at this stuff since law school, which was a while ago). But theoretically  could they both be convicted of the same crime? Sure, at least under Canadian law.
 
2013-03-19 05:33:37 AM
This rape thread isn't nearly as entertaining as that last rape thread with the college girl. Now, THAT was rape thread.  This one doesn't even have tinfoil-hat maggie every other post.

/rape
 
2013-03-19 05:44:29 AM

ADHD Librarian: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

On of the reason that other girls (and women) are often the most vocal when it comes to victim shaming is a rather unfortunate quirk of human psychology. When (some) girls look at this situation they see something which seems familiar to them, they too have had too much to drink at a party or trusted some boy more than they should. Yet, they have not been raped. Rather than look at this as normal (seriously girls, most of us men have a 100% success in not raping anyone), or as fortunate (yes, not 100% of men manage to die without having raped someone), the human brain tries to find a reason. So, 'obviously' they were not raped when they passed out at the party because {{insert rationalisation here}}. t may be because they 'didn't dress like that' or didn't 'lead them on' or 'flirt' or because everyone knows they are not like 'that'...
As such, their own sense of security comes from a fallacy of their own imagining which requires the rape victim to have had some hand in her own situation. After all, if it isn't partially her fault, why, it is almost like it could happen to anyone?

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?
//I am not saying that the situation with these two boys is such a case
///sometimes it is bloody obvious who the perpetrator(s) is (are)


I'm gonna go with the two guys carrying the body around were less impaired than the lifeless body they were carrying.

But that's just my take.
 
2013-03-19 06:02:14 AM

robohobo: This rape thread isn't nearly as entertaining as that last rape thread with the college girl. Now, THAT was rape thread.  This one doesn't even have tinfoil-hat maggie every other post.

/rape


Yeah... i believe that was the thread were any male that participated in that thread was labeled a rape apologist, whatever the fark that is...
 
2013-03-19 06:09:23 AM
Ok folks, time to move out of that hellhole. Change your name (I don't know it, but I hear it got leaked), do whatever you can to get away from crazy assholes like this.  Well that and the town's bumper crop of rapists.
 
2013-03-19 06:15:21 AM

CeroX: robohobo: This rape thread isn't nearly as entertaining as that last rape thread with the college girl. Now, THAT was rape thread.  This one doesn't even have tinfoil-hat maggie every other post.

/rape

Yeah... i believe that was the thread were any male that participated in that thread was labeled a rape apologist, whatever the fark that is...


Pretty much. Good times.

/swimming with sharks is a great idea
 
2013-03-19 06:19:07 AM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: bumper crop


what's a bumper crop? I'm not familiar with agricultural terms... by the sound of it, something that is grown at the ends of a field that is different than the rest of the field?
 
2013-03-19 06:24:32 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.

Different crime.  When Mr. Happy is damaged, the man is unquestionably wronged.  No one asks whether he wanted it.

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


While I agree it's horrible. The only thing worse then a country that makes the prosecution prove their case is a country that doesn't

Do you seriously realize what you are asking for. A justice system where just the word of the victim is grounds for conviction. Do you not seriously see what's wrong with that type of system
 
2013-03-19 06:31:38 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: People defended Michael Jackson like mad over allegations of child abuse and blamed the victims and their parents instead.


Missed chances would have been the South Park episode where the boys win a trip to the Neverland Ranch, where they spend most of their time trying not to be left alone with Micheal Jackson.  Meanwhile various mothers are sneaking around trying to covertly trying to catch Micheal on film doing something blackmail worthy. The punchline at the end where Cartman discovers Micheal's dirty secret, when he finds Micheal Jackson in bed with his mother. Holy Shiat, Micheal Jackson is a Mother Fu *credits roll*
 
2013-03-19 06:32:46 AM
The world we (unfortunately) live in.
 
2013-03-19 06:32:56 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it. Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is. It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case


I completely agree that it was farked up that they even tried to make that claim in this case.  But most cases aren't like this.

Without proof that she was incapacitated and couldn't give consent (as it is in most cases) it comes down to her word vs his, and in a country where you practice innocent until proven guilty, then yes she has to prove that (I am assuming you mean actually asked fro it, not oh she sleeps around, hung out with dudes and was wearing something slutty so she "asked" for it).
 
2013-03-19 06:34:09 AM

WTF Indeed: Girls making threats against a rape victim?


This is nothing new, unique, nor rare.
 
2013-03-19 06:38:22 AM

publikenemy: sevente: publikenemy:

Given that you apparently live in a world where raping while black with black friends is a successful defence I can see why you would struggle with the real world.

So, you choose to live in a state of denial then. I hear that state is over-crowded..

So do you deny my perfectly clear view that nearly every time we are dealing with a case of white vs black crime, or anything really, that the R word is an almost instinctual response to the question of why this crime or perceived injustice was committed?

To the point of I myself will be called a racist just for noticing this and commenting on it?

Do you not think that just maybe possibly there would've been a goddammed circus frenzy and the rage and sensationalism would not have been at a fevered pitch had both defendants been black?

So you don't agree that their defense lawyers may have asked out loud whether or not the police and prosecution were racist and didn't like the fact that 2 black men had consensual sex with a white girl?.....they would have been obligated to use every defense possible to get them off.

Reminds me of something....historical maybe..

(knock on door)...."open up ma'am, we need to speak to your husband!"

(lady in house)...."he's not home right now..what's this all about?"

(racism police).... "ma'am, your husbands been accused of spreading racist propaganda, now open up or you're gonna need a new door"

(lady in house)...."what!?...what could he possibly have done?"

(racist police)...."he said rap music sucks ma'am...he said it sucked"....here we come ma'am!


whatthefarkamireading.jpg
 
2013-03-19 06:40:27 AM

TopoGigo: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

It happens. Nobody knows how often it happens, but it definitely happens.


About 2% of the time, in line with other crimes, according to the FBI.

(stat is probably 10 years old, may be out of date by now)
 
2013-03-19 06:41:51 AM

Raymo853: WTF Indeed: Girls making threats against a rape victim?

This is nothing new, unique, nor rare.


Unfortunately... This.
 
2013-03-19 06:43:20 AM
Teenage girls can be hateful biatches, more at 11!
 
2013-03-19 06:47:11 AM

PunGent: TopoGigo: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

It happens. Nobody knows how often it happens, but it definitely happens.

About 2% of the time, in line with other crimes, according to the FBI.

(stat is probably 10 years old, may be out of date by now)


So what you're saying is - it would be wrong to assume that every victim is falsely accusing someone of rape since it is statistically more likely that they're telling the truth.

/clarifying for those Farkers arguing that it's necessary that rape victims be doubted by everyone until they've been tried in the media.
 
2013-03-19 06:50:26 AM

Owangotang: The difference is that no one really clamors for Lindsay Lohan to be spared prosecution, yet whether it is Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Paterno, or these kids from an Ohio H.S. football team people just seem willing to defend them. I'm not sure football is to blame but there is a definite correlation there.


For Ben Roethlisberger, both cases were dismissed. And when did Joe Paterno rape anyone again?

See, this is the other side to the "rape culture"...when the vengeance vultures decide to go crazy.  They get the bit in their mouths and they're impossible to stop, even long after the deed is done. That is why we have a trial system: to make absolutely sure.  But the vultures are not satisfied with just the rapists.  They suddenly have to "nuke everything in State College" or "burn Steubenville to the ground", heedless of the culpability of whoever's in there.  As much as we need to guard against rape, we also need to guard against vengeance vultures who think Nancy Grace and Xavier Von Erck are good role models. They are just as bad as Jerry Sandusky and O.J. Simpson, just from the other direction.

/Justice has been done. Everyone on both ends needs to let go.
 
2013-03-19 06:52:34 AM

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?


Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".


You skipped 20)  "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury"

So, while it's not perfect, for a program set up in the 1920's, they're not completely ignoring the problem.

Unless, of course, it's in prison...
 
2013-03-19 06:52:47 AM

Warlordtrooper: Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.

Different crime.  When Mr. Happy is damaged, the man is unquestionably wronged.  No one asks whether he wanted it.

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.

While I agree it's horrible. The only thing worse then a country that makes the prosecution prove their case is a country that doesn't

Do you seriously realize what you are asking for. A justice system where just the word of the victim is grounds for conviction. Do you not seriously see what's wrong with that type of system


be prepared to be a rape apologist for siding with the foundations of the US on this subject... Innocence until proven guilty is, apparently, ok for any other crime, but somehow women are incapable of telling a lie, so when a man is accused of rape, no proof is required, and he should be swifted past due process and hanged by the neck until dead...

for the record: I know how hard it is to prove rape sometimes, and i know it makes it feel like the victim is the one on trial when a case goes to court, but it IS the job of the defense to try and get the defendant off the hook guilty or not... Sometimes that means making the vic feel like they are the ones who are doing wrong, that is the tactic of the defense... rape vics aren't the only ones defense attorneys do this to. The system isn't perfect, but without it, we would literally be thrust into a modern Salem Witch hunt, where a combination of dishonest people and mass hysterical fear would see a lot of innocent people hanged...

I firmly believe that our system should handle rape cases with sensitivity and compassion, but it must uphold the core values of the legal system to maintain integrity. And make no mistake about it, anyone, male of female, found guilty of rape(non-consensual sexual activity), should be punished severely. I'm not opposed to life long punishments, imprisonment, house arrest, hell even banishment would be a good option in my opinion... But we can NOT undermine the legal system and give any human, male or female, unchecked power to strip freedom and life over another human being. That sort of power can quickly get out of control (See: Salem Witch Trials) and lead to a lot of innocent people, male and female, losing their lives...

If defending due process makes me a "rape apologist" then so be it...
 
2013-03-19 06:53:52 AM
We're going to learn that rape by the Rape Crew isn't entirely rare and that this victim isn't the first. She was an outsider and she didn't understand that Steubenville victims don't talk.

At least - that's how I'm betting this story unfolds.

When the girl first came forward - she was accused of being an outsider trying to destroy lives by twisting the facts. It wasn't so much outrage that she was raped - but merely that she'll was talking about it.

Also - think about the sheer number of people that witnessed it, tweeted it, and took pictures but said nothing nor tried to stop it.
 
2013-03-19 06:55:53 AM

IlGreven: Owangotang: The difference is that no one really clamors for Lindsay Lohan to be spared prosecution, yet whether it is Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Paterno, or these kids from an Ohio H.S. football team people just seem willing to defend them. I'm not sure football is to blame but there is a definite correlation there.

For Ben Roethlisberger, both cases were dismissed. And when did Joe Paterno rape anyone again?

See, this is the other side to the "rape culture"...when the vengeance vultures decide to go crazy.  They get the bit in their mouths and they're impossible to stop, even long after the deed is done. That is why we have a trial system: to make absolutely sure.  But the vultures are not satisfied with just the rapists.  They suddenly have to "nuke everything in State College" or "burn Steubenville to the ground", heedless of the culpability of whoever's in there.  As much as we need to guard against rape, we also need to guard against vengeance vultures who think Nancy Grace and Xavier Von Erck are good role models. They are just as bad as Jerry Sandusky and O.J. Simpson, just from the other direction.

/Justice has been done. Everyone on both ends needs to let go.


How would you classify Paterno's crimes?
 
2013-03-19 06:57:00 AM

orbister: the ha ha guy: She's either blaming the victim for being raped, or she's blaming the victim for reporting the crime. Either way, she appears to be blaming the victim for not accepting rape as a natural and unavoidable part of life.

It is alas very common for families to unite against people who report childhood sexual abuse. "How dare she send dear old Gramps to prison?"


Says the niece that's also a victim of Gramps' wandering fingers.
 
2013-03-19 06:57:16 AM
My family moved to a podunk town in Indiana when I was in eighth grade. The high school had won the state football title the previous year. In the most recent season, they had sucked, as they did every year after.

Yeah, that was one fun and happy town to live in.
 
2013-03-19 07:02:40 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Owangotang: The difference is that no one really clamors for Lindsay Lohan to be spared prosecution, yet whether it is Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Paterno, or these kids from an Ohio H.S. football team people just seem willing to defend them. I'm not sure football is to blame but there is a definite correlation there.

People defended Michael Jackson like mad over allegations of child abuse and blamed the victims and their parents instead.


The whole Jackson thing was weird.  While I'd NEVER let a kid sleep at his place, I think he might actually NOT have molested anyone...seemed to me he actually wanted to BE a kid.

I don't care for his music, and I'm the last guy to defend a celebrity, but it seems to me that whole mess might have just been a shakedown, partly fueled by the fact the kid's parents were divorced.
 
2013-03-19 07:04:38 AM

Bontesla: How would you classify Paterno's crimes


He was informed of an "incident" by McQueery.  The police were called.

We don't knwo the severity of the incident (McQueery has changed his story about what he told him).

Legally Paterno did what was required.

Morally, especially for a guy who is touted as a "Hero" for doing the right thing, and making sure his role as an educator was #1, he failed miserably, but he never broke any laws.
 
2013-03-19 07:08:08 AM

CeroX: Zarquon's Flat Tire: bumper crop

what's a bumper crop? I'm not familiar with agricultural terms... by the sound of it, something that is grown at the ends of a field that is different than the rest of the field?


Not sure where the term comes from, but a 'bumper' crop is an exceptionally high yield.

Usually a good thing, but not if you're growing rape...
 
2013-03-19 07:08:22 AM

LavenderWolf: publikenemy: ...

whatthefarkamireading.jpg



A cry for attention from a child.
 
2013-03-19 07:08:48 AM

liam76: Bontesla: How would you classify Paterno's crimes

He was informed of an "incident" by McQueery.  The police were called.

We don't knwo the severity of the incident (McQueery has changed his story about what he told him).

Legally Paterno did what was required.

Morally, especially for a guy who is touted as a "Hero" for doing the right thing, and making sure his role as an educator was #1, he failed miserably, but he never broke any laws.


I thought for sure that Paterno held those kids down for Sandusky, and threatened their families with violence if they squealed.
 
2013-03-19 07:12:57 AM

liam76: Bontesla: How would you classify Paterno's crimes

He was informed of an "incident" by McQueery.  The police were called.

We don't knwo the severity of the incident (McQueery has changed his story about what he told him).

Legally Paterno did what was required.

Morally, especially for a guy who is touted as a "Hero" for doing the right thing, and making sure his role as an educator was #1, he failed miserably, but he never broke any laws.


A great lawyer is a damned good investment

//you're right. an unlikely scenario isn't sufficient to establish the necessary criteria for guilt in the court of law. But Goddammitsomuch.
/// but I can't believe people actually buy that story.
 
2013-03-19 07:13:57 AM

SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.


High school football.  SERIOUS BUSINESS
 
2013-03-19 07:15:24 AM
As the mother of a one year old son you'd better believe that my husband and I will be doing everything in our power to instill in him a sense of respect for other human beings and to teach him that crowds and the majority can be EXTREMELY wrong in certain situations and that deviating from their opinions and actions can be not only the right thing to do, but the legal thing as well.

That being said, I'll still be scared shiatless when he gets to high school. Teenagers in general are borderline psychopaths.
 
2013-03-19 07:16:14 AM
I didn't really follow this case.

Can anyone summarize all of the actual evidence in the case for me?
 
2013-03-19 07:17:11 AM

CeroX: Zarquon's Flat Tire: bumper crop

what's a bumper crop? I'm not familiar with agricultural terms... by the sound of it, something that is grown at the ends of a field that is different than the rest of the field?


Still no etymology...I'm too lazy to walk downstairs to my real dictionary...but bumper has a secondary meaning:  something large

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bumper
 
2013-03-19 07:17:42 AM

punishmentforshoplifting: As the mother of a one year old son you'd better believe that my husband and I will be doing everything in our power to instill in him a sense of respect for other human beings and to teach him that crowds and the majority can be EXTREMELY wrong in certain situations and that deviating from their opinions and actions can be not only the right thing to do, but the legal thing as well.

That being said, I'll still be scared shiatless when he gets to high school. Teenagers in general are borderline psychopaths.


Well, I think the first step is to make sure he avoids joining a rape crew.

/seriously though. Good luck.
 
2013-03-19 07:18:10 AM
Argh.
I read the other thread a few days ago. The one that said men need to be trained not to rape. The one that insisted we live in a rape culture. Like it was socialy accepted to say "hey guys I'm going to the store for some snacks and I'll probably rape the first woman I see. want anything?"
I thought bull.. we don't live in a "rape culture". Rape is one of the most reviled crimes around. No one in this day and age supports a convicted rapeist.
Now this crap from CNN and some of the stuff in these theads is makeing me loose a little more faith in humanity.
Its very hard to tell your self that you don't live in a rape culture when the lady on the national news crys for the poor poor rapeists and how the conviction will harm their future.
 
2013-03-19 07:19:59 AM

Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.


I'm female, I have a friend who has been raped. My ex was accused of rape by a woman who, as we found out, had a history of "crying rape" or sexual assault whenever she was fired from a job.

farked up, entitled people do exist and instead of just getting thrown out of court she should have been thrown in jail. I've no doubt she's just gone on to do it again.

My ex just wanted the whole thing over with, he was so broken from having to go through it.
 
2013-03-19 07:20:59 AM

GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around. Women get harassed for making a claim quite often, and other women discredit real claims by falsely crying rape without any real consequence.


And this is why, as mentioned earlier, women have to "prove" they were raped, because of a few attention-seeking and/or guilty-feeling individuals.  Actual rape victims are double-victimized by the Girls Who Cried Wolf.  It pisses me off because it trivializes when a rape really happens.  Not to mention that the "rape" suspect, who did nothing wrong, is also victimized by this slander.
 
2013-03-19 07:22:06 AM

Mcavity: Argh.
I read the other thread a few days ago. The one that said men need to be trained not to rape. The one that insisted we live in a rape culture. Like it was socialy accepted to say "hey guys I'm going to the store for some snacks and I'll probably rape the first woman I see. want anything?"
I thought bull.. we don't live in a "rape culture". Rape is one of the most reviled crimes around. No one in this day and age supports a convicted rapeist.
Now this crap from CNN and some of the stuff in these theads is makeing me loose a little more faith in humanity.
Its very hard to tell your self that you don't live in a rape culture when the lady on the national news crys for the poor poor rapeists and how the conviction will harm their future.


When people start blaming victims for tempting rapists then you know that society has gone to the dogs on sexual crimes.
 
2013-03-19 07:22:13 AM

WhyteRaven74: doglover: It will if you accuse someone with enough money to hire a lawyer worth their salt.

One word, relevance. Any time a defense attorney starts digging into whoever was the victim, in a burglary, theft etc the prosecutor just objects citing a lack of relevance. Because it's not relevant. And not going to find many judges who'd overrule the objection, cause they damn well it's not relevant. The one place where it somehow doesn't hold up is rape cases. Or at least in holds up in fewer court rooms. There are judges around who will make due with a single warning about trying to take shots at the character of the victim and if the defense attorney doesn't follow along, it starts getting expensive.


To play devil's advocate for a moment, if the accuser had a history of "giving" his property to people and then claiming it was stolen, it would be relevant. If the accuser had a history of giving his property to some people but not to others, it would not be relevant. If it was in evidence that the accuser had given his property to the defendant earlier in the evening but the question of fact was whether he changed his mind later...ok, the analogy totally breaks down here. What I'm saying, I guess, is that there would be some (not many) instances where the character of the accuser was relevant, and more instances where the prior actions of the accuser was relevant. It's up to the judge to determine when it is or isn't, and it's up to us to determine whether the judge keeps his job.*

*Offer void where judges are appointed. Must be over 18. No purchase necessary to win.
 
2013-03-19 07:26:02 AM
That's awesome that they got arrested for it. Set a precedence that law enforcement will not take it lightly.
 
2013-03-19 07:26:34 AM
By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.
 
2013-03-19 07:26:51 AM

thisone: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

I'm female, I have a friend who has been raped. My ex was accused of rape by a woman who, as we found out, had a history of "crying rape" or sexual assault whenever she was fired from a job.

farked up, entitled people do exist and instead of just getting thrown out of court she should have been thrown in jail. I've no doubt she's just gone on to do it again.

My ex just wanted the whole thing over with, he was so broken from having to go through it.


Just curious... How did you know he was innocent?
 
2013-03-19 07:28:58 AM

IlGreven: /Justice has been done. Everyone on both ends needs to let go.


THAT

This thread is closed to further comments.
 
2013-03-19 07:30:59 AM

GoldSpider: liam76: Bontesla: How would you classify Paterno's crimes

He was informed of an "incident" by McQueery.  The police were called.

We don't knwo the severity of the incident (McQueery has changed his story about what he told him).

Legally Paterno did what was required.

Morally, especially for a guy who is touted as a "Hero" for doing the right thing, and making sure his role as an educator was #1, he failed miserably, but he never broke any laws.

I thought for sure that Paterno held those kids down for Sandusky, and threatened their families with violence if they squealed.


I do remember that the victims in that case got threats form the Penn State "community". And you can still find people who think the NCAA was "too harsh" in punishing that "community".
Different people value different things, I guess.
 
2013-03-19 07:31:16 AM

robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.


Oh well sh*t, cancel that prison sentence and give the kids some medals. This changes everything.
 
2013-03-19 07:32:11 AM

robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.


Cool Story, Bro Disgusting Example of a Human Being.
 
2013-03-19 07:33:16 AM

xanadian: IlGreven: /Justice has been done. Everyone on both ends needs to let go.

THAT

This thread is closed to further comments.


The state attorney general has convened a grand jury to look into other suspected criminal activity related to the incident.
 
2013-03-19 07:33:36 AM

robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.


When I was in the jewelry business, I sold lots and lots of jewelry - to lots of people.
So when some guys hit my salesman and ripped me for $100,000 worth of merchandise, I totally had it coming.
 
2013-03-19 07:35:31 AM

TopoGigo: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

Cool Story, Bro Disgusting Example of a Human Being.


You know he is actually being snarky about the shiatty people at the school right?

You aren't dense enough to think those are his opinions even with the "from the kids in her school" clearly in the statement are you?
 
2013-03-19 07:35:58 AM

jso2897: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

When I was in the jewelry business, I sold lots and lots of jewelry - to lots of people.
So when some guys hit my salesman and ripped me for $100,000 worth of merchandise, I totally had it coming.


You shouldn't have put yourself in that kind of situation. Statistically, you should know that you tempt thieves. It's really your fault.
 
2013-03-19 07:36:35 AM
farm3.staticflickr.com

Just think of the futures of these poor girls who now have criminal charges. Their lives are ruined.


/ok, I'm done.
//I got a TotalFark that says one of the parents says the next stupid thing.
 
2013-03-19 07:37:01 AM

jso2897: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

When I was in the jewelry business, I sold lots and lots of jewelry - to lots of people.
So when some guys hit my salesman and ripped me for $100,000 worth of merchandise, I totally had it coming.


i stand corrected...
 
2013-03-19 07:37:27 AM

jso2897: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

When I was in the jewelry business, I sold lots and lots of jewelry - to lots of people.
So when some guys hit my salesman and ripped me for $100,000 worth of merchandise, I totally had it coming.


Sold, not gave away.
 
2013-03-19 07:37:30 AM

CeroX: TopoGigo: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

Cool Story, Bro Disgusting Example of a Human Being.

You know he is actually being snarky about the shiatty people at the school right?

You aren't dense enough to think those are his opinions even with the "from the kids in her school" clearly in the statement are you?


So what?
 
2013-03-19 07:38:35 AM

publikenemy: sevente: publikenemy: I heard that the black lawyer said something to the effect of "if only you chose to hang with only your black friends that night. We totally could've beat this thing if your co-defendant were black. I could've used my handy dandy "rush-to-judgement racism" card, and we coulda beat this thing."...and he would have had many supporters. Including here on good ol' Fark

Did you even read what you just typed or did the stupid just fall out on to the keyboard?


Idk what world you live in, but this defense is used every day. To the point where the word hardly has meaning anymore


You're so right, black men never go to jail for rape in this country.

Pretty odd thread to whine about black people, but some people have a one track mind.
 
2013-03-19 07:39:48 AM

CeroX: jso2897: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

When I was in the jewelry business, I sold lots and lots of jewelry - to lots of people.
So when some guys hit my salesman and ripped me for $100,000 worth of merchandise, I totally had it coming.

i stand corrected...


I believe, ladies and gentlemen, that we have identified an individual who believes the Internet to be Serious Business.
Go white-knight your mama, Francis.
You'll get over it.
 
2013-03-19 07:41:15 AM

jso2897: CeroX: TopoGigo: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

Cool Story, Bro Disgusting Example of a Human Being.

You know he is actually being snarky about the shiatty people at the school right?

You aren't dense enough to think those are his opinions even with the "from the kids in her school" clearly in the statement are you?

So what?


Oh, ok, i didn't realize you were on their side... continue being a shiatty human being and continue defending the brats at the school...
 
2013-03-19 07:42:15 AM

cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope: 

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town


She doesn't have to say "no", she has to say "yes". Your standard is from the Stone Age and is based on the idea that if a women does not scream "no" it's okay.

I can't take all your possessions and then say "well he didn't say no." And I can't go to you when you have a lack of capacity, due to drunkeness, and talk you into giving me all your worldly possessions.
 
2013-03-19 07:42:26 AM
I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?
 
2013-03-19 07:42:57 AM

CeroX: jso2897: CeroX: TopoGigo: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

Cool Story, Bro Disgusting Example of a Human Being.

You know he is actually being snarky about the shiatty people at the school right?

You aren't dense enough to think those are his opinions even with the "from the kids in her school" clearly in the statement are you?

So what?

Oh, ok, i didn't realize you were on their side... continue being a shiatty human being and continue defending the brats at the school...


i18.photobucket.com
Cry moar.
 
2013-03-19 07:43:05 AM

CeroX: TopoGigo: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

Cool Story, Bro Disgusting Example of a Human Being.

You know he is actually being snarky about the shiatty people at the school right?

You aren't dense enough to think those are his opinions even with the "from the kids in her school" clearly in the statement are you?


No, I don't know that. Seeing as a) this is Fark, and b) he appears to have posted the victim's name just a few comments previously, I assume those either are his opinions, or he'd like us to believe they are his opinions so we'll flip out on him. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think it makes me dense to assume the default position.
 
2013-03-19 07:43:09 AM
So, so very late to the thread, but I just finished reading a book titled Woman's Inhumanity to Woman and it certainly touched on this phenomenon- females ganging up on a female victim. It doesn't really explain why this happens, except some double standard that girls and boys grow through and doesn't really explain how to fix. Except by learning to communicate in a more forthright fashion. We seem to have a kind of evil cunning.
 
2013-03-19 07:44:45 AM
As someone who lived in Steubenville for 10 years, this doesn't surprise me one bit.  I went to Catholic Central (Big Red's football "rival"), and then went to Franciscan University of Steubenville there as well.

Trust me, if you spend enough time there you either get sucked in and are stuck there for life, or you run as fast as you can and never look back. From the outside it looks like a lazy, do-nothing town, but once you've been there for a while, it's a frightening place to be.  There is a lot of bad mojo there.

Some of you may recall the case there (almost 15 years ago) where two college students were kidnapped and executed in the area.  Yeah, those were my friends.  They were shot in the head (after quite a bit of torture) for their farking SUV.  I have plenty of other examples of how twisted that place is, but I'm pretty sure this rape case, and the reaction to it, can do the talking for me.

I still have a few "friends" back there, but I haven't been back to see them in a couple of years now.  Every time I drive over the bridge from Weirton to the 'Ville, I always get a knot in my stomach -  it's like returning to the scene of a crime.

/lurker, but had to toss my two cents
//know more about Steubenville than I'd like
///have always wanted to do slashies like the cool kids.
 
2013-03-19 07:45:06 AM

TopoGigo: CeroX: TopoGigo: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

Cool Story, Bro Disgusting Example of a Human Being.

You know he is actually being snarky about the shiatty people at the school right?

You aren't dense enough to think those are his opinions even with the "from the kids in her school" clearly in the statement are you?

No, I don't know that. Seeing as a) this is Fark, and b) he appears to have posted the victim's name just a few comments previously, I assume those either are his opinions, or he'd like us to believe they are his opinions so we'll flip out on him. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think it makes me dense to assume the default position.


He knows that - he's just being a biatch for exercise. Play along with him - it's more fun that way.
 
2013-03-19 07:45:09 AM

Bontesla: thisone: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

I'm female, I have a friend who has been raped. My ex was accused of rape by a woman who, as we found out, had a history of "crying rape" or sexual assault whenever she was fired from a job.

farked up, entitled people do exist and instead of just getting thrown out of court she should have been thrown in jail. I've no doubt she's just gone on to do it again.

My ex just wanted the whole thing over with, he was so broken from having to go through it.

Just curious... How did you know he was innocent?


honestly? she said it took place in a particular location at a particular time. That location was covered with CCTV cameras.

Oh, and she also taunted him about the charges.
 
2013-03-19 07:46:02 AM

fdlgrl: So, so very late to the thread, but I just finished reading a book titled Woman's Inhumanity to Woman and it certainly touched on this phenomenon- females ganging up on a female victim. It doesn't really explain why this happens, except some double standard that girls and boys grow through and doesn't really explain how to fix. Except by learning to communicate in a more forthright fashion. We seem to have a kind of evil cunning.


I hate to compare human females to the animal kingdom, but it happens in animal pack societies as well...
 
2013-03-19 07:46:05 AM

GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?


lol, remember when snuff videos were a myth?
 
2013-03-19 07:50:12 AM

cmb53208: If you follow high school sports as an adult, you need to get a farking life.

 
2013-03-19 07:50:16 AM

CeroX: fdlgrl: So, so very late to the thread, but I just finished reading a book titled Woman's Inhumanity to Woman and it certainly touched on this phenomenon- females ganging up on a female victim. It doesn't really explain why this happens, except some double standard that girls and boys grow through and doesn't really explain how to fix. Except by learning to communicate in a more forthright fashion. We seem to have a kind of evil cunning.

I hate to compare human females to the animal kingdom, but it happens in animal pack societies as well...


Oh yes, that's documented in the book as well.
 
2013-03-19 07:50:50 AM

Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.


One of the girls wrote "you tore our family apart"...your theory breaks down when it's a family member.
 
2013-03-19 07:54:53 AM

DigitalCoffee: Time to rename the town to Stupidville yet?

I've been saying that for years, and I'm from Cleveland. The only good thing that came from that place is Dean Martin and Traci Lords.

 
2013-03-19 07:55:12 AM

bborchar: One of the girls wrote "you tore our family apart"...your theory breaks down when it's a family member.


Of course, the sad part is, her anger is misguided... The ones who "tore her family apart" were the young men who decided to rape a passed out girl, film it and post it online.
 
2013-03-19 07:55:35 AM
Steubenville, isn't that near Springfield?
 
2013-03-19 07:55:53 AM

BunkoSquad: It's basically time to burn Steubenville to the ground and salt the earth so nothing grows again there, isn't it?


I don't know about that, but here we have yet another town that needs to have football taken away (looking at you, Penn State). If significant numbers of people will defend known predators because football, then the community does not deserve to have it, and, indeed, needs to have it taken away so that the local culture can deal with its corruption.
 
2013-03-19 07:58:53 AM

Millennium: here we have yet another town that needs to have football taken away (looking at you, Penn State). If significant numbers of people will defend known predators because football, then the community does not deserve to have it, and, indeed, needs to have it taken away so that the local culture can deal with its corruption.


This.

PSU should have had football nuked, and so should this town.
Let them idolize embroiderers or upholsterers.
 
2013-03-19 08:00:43 AM

rattchett: cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope: 

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town

She doesn't have to say "no", she has to say "yes". Your standard is from the Stone Age and is based on the idea that if a women does not scream "no" it's okay.

I can't take all your possessions and then say "well he didn't say no." And I can't go to you when you have a lack of capacity, due to drunkeness, and talk you into giving me all your worldly possessions.


Perfectly said.
 
2013-03-19 08:02:27 AM

GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.


You are correct, at least to some degree. However, that doesn't mean there's not a problem.

For decades, this has been common enough (yet spoken only underground, in hushed tones) to have gotten its own literary tropes around it. That could have been brushed off as literature doing what it does best, but now the court cases have begun in earnest, and it turns out there's some truth in the trope. It's a real problem, and while this doesn't make football itself a bad thing, it does mean there's a very real need to understand whence the corrupting influence comes. It might not even be from football itself, and I hope it's not, but even then, there's a need to understand why it gravitated toward football.

How did it come to this?
 
2013-03-19 08:02:30 AM

c-ment: DigitalCoffee: Time to rename the town to Stupidville yet?

I've been saying that for years, and I'm from Cleveland. The only good thing that came from that place is Dean Martin and Traci Lords.


Wait... Traci Lords is from there?

No wonder that town can't wrap their head around rape... they just assume whoring around is what you do when you turn 16... idiots...
 
2013-03-19 08:09:22 AM

thorthor: CWeinerWV: Therion: I say we take off and nuke the entire site (Ohio) from orbit, just to be sure.

As someone who lives directly on the other side of the river, I support this.  Say what you want about WV but it's rednecks on one side in PA and these types next door in Ohio that make this area look horrendous.

Honestly, other than people associated with the school, people in this area don't support the cover-up.  We were outraged, just powerless against it.  People around here are tired of the violent crime, drug problem, and break-ins/robberies that go unreported, and this is the icing on the cake.  Without the national spotlight it would've been swept under the rug by people associated with the school, because there's an incestuous relationship between the school and those in power in the area.  You only hear the idiots, you don't hear all the people that wanted this pursued, or wanted to speak up but were afraid for this very reason.  Obviously I'm not talking about the ones that refused to cooperate because of being associated with the act, but those that may have had knowledge or wanted to bring attention to it but didn't feel safe enough to speak up.

From west Virginia also, and I cringe when I hear the mud slinged in our direction. If people could see what a proud and dignified people we are (mostly), I want to tell them.... but they wont see the light.

/lets meet up, drink some moonglow, and try to come up with a plan. BY GOD! Go mounties!


Unfortunately I have to do another sentence in South Florida for school.  My god talk about backwards.  The more I travel the more I'd rather be home in the dub-V
 
2013-03-19 08:10:58 AM

CeroX: c-ment: DigitalCoffee: Time to rename the town to Stupidville yet?

I've been saying that for years, and I'm from Cleveland. The only good thing that came from that place is Dean Martin and Traci Lords.

Wait... Traci Lords is from there?

No wonder that town can't wrap their head around rape... they just assume whoring around is what you do when you turn 16... idiots...


One quote you probably hear alot there is 'Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?'
 
2013-03-19 08:12:07 AM

NewportBarGuy: Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh, just stick around in the thread. You'll see lots here. Not to mention CNN, who made the story about how two young men's promising athletic careers would be ruined by the verdict.

Makes me farking sick.

You mean a girl named Poppy is an abject idiot and CNN ran with it? I'm shocked!


www.cnn.com
"Won't somebody  please think of the poor rapists?!!"
 
2013-03-19 08:13:58 AM
Meh.  All the little a-holes should go to jail, and the victim and her family should look in to moving just to make things easier on her.  Sucks that she should even have to think of that, but in reality it would probably be the best move.
 
2013-03-19 08:16:00 AM

Millennium: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You are correct, at least to some degree. However, that doesn't mean there's not a problem.

For decades, this has been common enough (yet spoken only underground, in hushed tones) to have gotten its own literary tropes around it. That could have been brushed off as literature doing what it does best, but now the court cases have begun in earnest, and it turns out there's some truth in the trope. It's a real problem, and while this doesn't make football itself a bad thing, it does mean there's a very real need to understand whence the corrupting influence comes. It might not even be from football itself, and I hope it's not, but even then, there's a need to understand why it gravitated toward football.

How did it come to this?


It has nothing to do with the sport of football.  It has everything to do with communities that allow people with authority the leeway to abuse it - priests, coaches, scout masters, abusive parents, a corrupt sheriff, superior officers in the military, and any other number of examples.  If the community won't hold them accountable, something heinous will eventually happen.
 
2013-03-19 08:16:44 AM

zelachang: the ha ha guy: GAT_00: As bad as it still is for women who are victims of rape, it is actually worse if a man gets raped by a woman.  The almost universal reaction is of disbelief.


I know this firsthand. I tries to press charges against the woman who raped me when I was a teenager, and the reactions were always some variation of "congratulations" or "women can't commit rape" (usually both). Literally nobody took me seriously.

/No, it wasn't as enjoyable as you think. She used a dildo.



Man Rape
 
2013-03-19 08:17:36 AM

robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.


So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.
 
2013-03-19 08:22:06 AM

Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.


This guy is way too interested in the underage rape victim. He is now labeled pedo guy
 
2013-03-19 08:24:12 AM

Dafatone: TopoGigo: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

It happens. Nobody knows how often it happens, but it definitely happens. While the words "cry rape" are pretty insensitive, the fact remains that it is hard to prove that any particular woman was "date raped". (God, how I hate that term.)
So, WTF can we do about it? We can't assume that any accuser is automatically telling the truth. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically lying. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically exaggerating. We can't read their f*cking minds. Polygraphs are inadmissible in court, for what I can only assume are good reasons. The only thing I know to do is to tell girls to fight. At least if there are physical injuries, there is evidence. Punch, claw, scratch, kick, bite. And accept that you might get your face irreparably smashed in, or your life abruptly ended. WTF, that doesn't work, either.

Sure, it happens.  People are falsely accused of other crimes, but if we get an article about someone running an illegal dog kennel, no one's yelling about how people get falsely accused of illegal dog kennels.

It happens, but it doesn't need to be pointed out in every thread about rape.  A thread about someone falsely accused?  Sure.  A thread about a trial itself, where the truth of the accusation is in question?  Sure.

But here, we have a thread about two asshole girls tweeting at a rape victim, whose attackers have already been found guilty.  What, there, has anything to do with "sometimes women falsely accuse men of rape" other than this sickening notion that in EVERY single thread on this subject, someone has to chime in with "sometimes women falsely accuse men of ...


Thanks for saying all this for me and so many others.    Welcome to TF.
 
2013-03-19 08:24:41 AM

ChrisDe: Remind me again how playing high school sports builds character.


Cross country, swimming, yeah. Football, basketball, not so much.
 
2013-03-19 08:25:42 AM

Dafatone: if we get an article about someone running an illegal dog kennel, no one's yelling about how people get falsely accused of illegal dog kennels.


If only that were true. I don't have time this morning to go spilunking for the thread, but there was a story about increased enforcement against mass breeders, and there were energetic, determined apologists there.

Fark is overrun with massively stupid people.
 
2013-03-19 08:25:48 AM

deanis: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

This guy is way too interested in the underage rape victim. He is now labeled pedo guy


I go straight for "sociopath."
 
2013-03-19 08:27:41 AM

RubberBabyBuggyBumpers: ChrisDe: Remind me again how playing high school sports builds character.

Cross country, swimming, yeah. Football, basketball, not so much.


Well, people who think slamming yourself physically into another person after trash talking them builds character often confuse charisma with just being an asshole.
 
2013-03-19 08:29:21 AM

RubberBabyBuggyBumpers: ChrisDe: Remind me again how playing high school sports builds character.

Cross country, swimming, yeah. Football, basketball, not so much.


i don't know... if you are trying to mold your character into a douche nozzle, then i'm sure the latter contribute to that perfectly...
 
2013-03-19 08:31:19 AM

Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?


Not just girls, teenaged girls.  Hateful, spiteful queens of the cheerleading squad who can't believe that little slut got those two hot football players put away.
 
2013-03-19 08:38:46 AM
This is what football does.  It makes people congregate in large numbers and yell stupid things.  Huge waste of time.
 
2013-03-19 08:39:48 AM
I feel so sorry for those boys. Their rape careers have been cut short now. They are going to be losing so many co-ed rape opportunities they could have taken advantage of. Soon their best raping years will have been behind them.

So to speak.
 
2013-03-19 08:43:29 AM

GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.


Oh, aren't you just precious.  Wahhhhh, you all just don't understand football!  Because that's what this is all about.  People's misunderstanding of football.
 
2013-03-19 08:44:36 AM
Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.
 
2013-03-19 08:48:51 AM
Millennium:

I don't know about that, but here we have yet another town that needs to have football taken away (looking at you, Penn State). If significant numbers of people will defend known predators because football, then the community does not deserve to have it, and, indeed, needs to have it taken away so that the local culture can deal with its corruption.

I realize that this is a sound concept, but enforcement would be impractical. Instead, we should bring back decimation.
 
2013-03-19 08:50:03 AM

The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.


It's not as if people gamble on it . .
oh. wait.
 
2013-03-19 08:51:46 AM

vudukungfu: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

It's not as if people gamble on it . .
oh. wait.


How are the people who want to bet on sports effected by that?
 
2013-03-19 08:55:24 AM

StrangeQ: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

Oh, aren't you just precious.  Wahhhhh, you all just don't understand football!  Because that's what this is all about.  People's misunderstanding of football.



It is a bit extreme to indict the whole sport, which a few folks on this thread have done. Hell, there are 30 kids on that team that aren't accused of a crime. However, if the coaches were found to be complicit in this, the program deserves some punishment. (I'd say firing and a 3-year playoff ban)

The bigger problem is the coaches, parents, and law enforcement that were willing to cover for these jerks. You tell a 17 year old kid that you'll make their legal problems go away as long as they win on Friday, and they'll take the deal. That fosters the entitlement problem that is the real issue.
 
2013-03-19 08:57:18 AM

The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.


It's not the football that's the problem. It's the rape. If you took all the sports out of all the schools in the world there would still be just as much rape.
 
2013-03-19 08:58:58 AM

The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.


Why would you want to take away revenue streams from already struggling schools.
 
2013-03-19 09:00:28 AM

quickdraw: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

It's not the football that's the problem. It's the rape. If you took all the sports out of all the schools in the world there would still be just as much rape.


It takes away a motive to cover it up.

stoli n coke: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

Why would you want to take away revenue streams from already struggling schools.


Most schools lose money on football.  That's why many poorer districts don't even have it.
 
2013-03-19 09:02:21 AM

The Muthaship: Most schools lose money on football.  That's why many poorer districts don't even have it.


Most schools who suck at it.
 
2013-03-19 09:03:07 AM

lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.


They can try, but they can't hide the number of women who say

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

and

Don't get blackout drunk.
 
2013-03-19 09:04:26 AM

SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.


The one tweet they showed indicated that she was related to the one of the two guys found guilty (he is her cousin).
 
2013-03-19 09:06:19 AM

ChrisDe: Remind me again how playing high school sports builds character.


Bad character is a KIND of character, Your Honor.
 
2013-03-19 09:08:08 AM

The Muthaship: quickdraw: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

It's not the football that's the problem. It's the rape. If you took all the sports out of all the schools in the world there would still be just as much rape.

It takes away a motive to cover it up.


No it doesn't. Rape is a crime. It is a crime that happens in many different places every day. It is just like other crimes such as theft or battery. The motive of the cover-up is to avoid prison time. No one wants their kid to go to prison.
 
2013-03-19 09:09:05 AM

The Muthaship: quickdraw: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

It's not the football that's the problem. It's the rape. If you took all the sports out of all the schools in the world there would still be just as much rape.

It takes away a motive to cover it up.

stoli n coke: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

Why would you want to take away revenue streams from already struggling schools.

Most schools lose money on football.  That's why many poorer districts don't even have it.


a lot of schools around us use athletic boosters to cover, and schools don't put that much money out... football and cheerleaders gain the support of parents all over... I see more secondary curricular programs cut long before football... art, music, shop, clubs like chess or debate... football is the last program in a school to be cut... unless it's an inner city school, schools like Kings not only don't have the funds, they don't have the space for football... but there seems to be a flip on inner city schools, there is a higher focus on positive creativity and learning, unlike the burbs where football is not just a national past time, it's the life blood of the burbs
 
2013-03-19 09:09:26 AM
Are people really trying to use this as a reason to get rid of high school sports?
 
2013-03-19 09:10:35 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.

They can try, but they can't hide the number of women who say

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

and

Don't get blackout drunk.


So dont get drunk, rape someone, video tape it and forget you did it later?

Sounds like good advice.
 
2013-03-19 09:11:13 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Are people really trying to use this as a reason to get rid of high school sports?


Nah - they are using it to troll fark threads.
 
2013-03-19 09:11:37 AM

quickdraw: No it doesn't.


This whole story began with the coverage of attempts to quash this incident because the perpetrators were on the football team.  The coaches and administrators of the school are under investigation by a grand jury as we speak.  And that is certainly not unique to Steubenville.  It happens lots of places.  Usually much more successfully.
 
2013-03-19 09:13:29 AM

Therion: I say we take off and nuke the entire site (Ohio) from orbit, just to be sure.


PLEASE do.  That will also save us a lot of worthless Ohio news coverage on the next election cycle.
 
2013-03-19 09:14:04 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Are people really trying to use this as a reason to get rid of high school sports?


Just me.

This isn't the on'y reason, IMO.  I really do believe school affiliated sports are a net negative.  That goes for college, too.  I am not opposed to sport, but it needs to be separated from academics.

I am well aware that my opinion is the minority, and likely always will be.
 
2013-03-19 09:14:14 AM

Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.


That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact:  The Tupac rule.  And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered.  But you record sexual acts to cover your ass.  If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?
 
2013-03-19 09:16:03 AM

xanadian: SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.

High school football.  SERIOUS BUSINESS


When a football scholarship is the only way to leave your shiathole town in bumblefark USA...it gets to be serious business

Regardless, these sick bastards should have been tried as adults. No pansy-ass juvie time for rapists.

This is small consolation, but at least these two won't turn another college campus into their hunting grounds.
 
2013-03-19 09:16:12 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Are people really trying to use this as a reason to get rid of high school sports?


Men are monsters and high school football and basketball teams are dens of iniquity which must be PURGED.  Duh.
 
2013-03-19 09:17:28 AM

quickdraw: The Muthaship: quickdraw: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

It's not the football that's the problem. It's the rape. If you took all the sports out of all the schools in the world there would still be just as much rape.

It takes away a motive to cover it up.

No it doesn't. Rape is a crime. It is a crime that happens in many different places every day. It is just like other crimes such as theft or battery. The motive of the cover-up is to avoid prison time. No one wants their kid to go to prison.


cover up from parents yes, cover up from the community because they had "promising football careers" not so much... look at how the community in stubs is treating the victim, had the rapists been D&D nerds, i doubt the community would be as supportive of the rapists...

None of that is relevant to it being a crime and being a crime is not the question, the question is why the community, CNN, and other people on twitter are demonizing the vic, and the obvious answer is that it's because those kids were local high school football stars... They were the big fish in the little pond and to them, the school reputation, the school's chances for state, were all "ruined by that slut" because petty shallow people put more importance on school spirit and elevating the football player to greek hero status than for care on a life shattering crime... and THAT is carried on the back of highschool football...
 
2013-03-19 09:18:16 AM

Skyday: You trolls (future trolls...and past trolls in the other thread) are aware there are Farkettes (including myself) (and Farkers) that have been raped.  Show some respect.  Nothing but love here, yeah!?  <3


I wonder if one particular idiot will show up again and demand proof
 
2013-03-19 09:19:39 AM

PsyLord: SilentStrider: F*cking amazing. The fact that those two assholes have garnered the slightest bit of sympathy floors me.

The one tweet they showed indicated that she was related to the one of the two guys found guilty (he is her cousin).


Does this narrow it down at all in a place like Steubenville? Aren't most of these people related somehow?
 
2013-03-19 09:20:39 AM

CeroX: The Muthaship: quickdraw: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

It's not the football that's the problem. It's the rape. If you took all the sports out of all the schools in the world there would still be just as much rape.

It takes away a motive to cover it up.

stoli n coke: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

Why would you want to take away revenue streams from already struggling schools.

Most schools lose money on football.  That's why many poorer districts don't even have it.

a lot of schools around us use athletic boosters to cover, and schools don't put that much money out... football and cheerleaders gain the support of parents all over... I see more secondary curricular programs cut long before football... art, music, shop, clubs like chess or debate... football is the last program in a school to be cut... unless it's an inner city school, schools like Kings not only don't have the funds, they don't have the space for football... but there seems to be a flip on inner city schools, there is a higher focus on positive creativity and learning, unlike the burbs where football is not just a national past time, it's the life blood of the burbs


Actually, in a lot of "urban" schools, they just substitute basketball for football - and it is often defended just as fiercely, because it is viewed as a "ticket out" of poverty.
 
2013-03-19 09:21:19 AM

The Muthaship: quickdraw: No it doesn't.

This whole story began with the coverage of attempts to quash this incident because the perpetrators were on the football team.  The coaches and administrators of the school are under investigation by a grand jury as we speak.  And that is certainly not unique to Steubenville.  It happens lots of places.  Usually much more successfully.


Well of course but what I'm getting at is the same cover up happens all the time all over the place. If it was just academic sports then, yes, by all means go after those. Do you only read sports news or something? Because there have been some pretty high profile rape cases in military, non-sport academics, and religious institutions quite recently. In addition to the rape that goes on constantly all around you. Unless you live in the boonies somebody somewhere is being raped right now within a mile or two of you.

Someone you know is a rapist. It's that simple.
 
2013-03-19 09:21:37 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.


Or alternatively, they walk away without a mark and people start referring to the accuser as a doorknob and such. But I suppose that even happens post conviction for a sexual assault that was recorded and bragged about, amirite?
 
2013-03-19 09:23:11 AM

quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.

They can try, but they can't hide the number of women who say

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

and

Don't get blackout drunk.

So dont get drunk, rape someone, video tape it and forget you did it later?

Sounds like good advice.


Don't get blackout drunk, period.

Don't get drunk.

Don't willingly place yourself in bad situations for god knows what reason, multiple times.

Don't play with fire when it comes to waking up in strange situations. The first time, you're an idiot but you can learn from it.  The second time, you must actively want it.  The third and fourth and subsequent times, you must be actively seeking out such situations.. again for god knows what reasons.  Probably the same ones which led you to be well known for getting blackout drunk in your little community.

The boys were stupid.

She, however, is NOT to be let off the hook.

Again, this is a chick who had morning after regrets because she couldn't pull the 'deny deny deny' card herself.  There was proof she ended up with the short end of the stick when she went looking for the trouble she ended up finding.

If there is no investigation of this chick's home life and if she is not put into drug and alcohol rehab, some other dude -- maybe even a silly ass white knight currently saying she's blameless -- is going to end up on the short end of a future stick in relation to her.

/but i forogt: women are eternally blameless
 
2013-03-19 09:23:48 AM
All you people white-knighting the boys are forgetting something: THEIR OWN FRIENDS TWEETED THEY WERE RAPING THE GIRLS WHILE IT WAS GOING ON.

There was a 30 minute Youtube full of drunk inbreds in the living room making jokes about the rape ongoing in the bedroom at the time.

THE ACCUSATION/STORY STARTED WITH THEIR OWN FRIENDS. As a joke certainly. A drunken joke.

But FFS stop white knighting the attackers. Guilty with ample evidence. You weren't at the trial, neither was I, but this is a long long way from a girl recanting consensual sex two weeks later.

Inbred small town social politics is a huge part of it, football > law in small towns is a big part of it, and slut-shaming the victim is part of it. Stupid red state regions of the country where all this stuff can flourish is part of it.

People talking out their a-- on forums anonymously, welcome to the internet.
 
2013-03-19 09:25:46 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.

They can try, but they can't hide the number of women who say

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

and

Don't get blackout drunk.

So dont get drunk, rape someone, video tape it and forget you did it later?

Sounds like good advice.

Don't get blackout drunk, period.

Don't get drunk.

Don't willingly place yourself in bad situations for god knows what reason, multiple times.

Don't play with fire when it comes to waking up in strange situations. The first time, you're an idiot but you can learn from it.  The second time, you must actively want it.  The third and fourth and subsequent times, you must be actively seeking out such situations.. again for god knows what reasons.  Probably the same ones which led you to be well known for getting blackout drunk in your little community.

The boys were stupid.

She, however, is NOT to be let off the hook.

Again, this is a chick who had morning after regrets because she couldn't pull the 'deny deny deny' card herself.  There was proof she ended up with the short end of the stick when she went looking for the trouble she ended up finding.

If there is no investigation of this chick's home life and if she is not put into drug and alcohol rehab, some other dude -- maybe even a silly ass white knight currently saying she's blameless -- is going to end up on the short end of a future stick in relation to her.

/but i forogt: women are eternally blameless


Saaaay....you're not one of the guys who stole my jewelry, are you?
 
2013-03-19 09:25:55 AM

quickdraw: Someone you know is a rapist. It's that simple.


Yep, I even know who you're talking about.

But, to your point, are you saying that because there are other motivations for cover up, this one should be ignored?  I don't think we can eliminate the military, and religious entities are Constitutionally protected.  Not that we shouldn't do all we can to eliminate sexual assault wherever it exists  I don't recall reading anything from the framers about the sanctity of high school football.
 
2013-03-19 09:28:09 AM
Then there was the ever present football-player rapist . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO8vBVUaKvk

Coincidence?  I think not.
 
2013-03-19 09:29:18 AM

The Muthaship: Just me.

This isn't the on'y reason, IMO.  I really do believe school affiliated sports are a net negative.  That goes for college, too.  I am not opposed to sport, but it needs to be separated from academics.

I am well aware that my opinion is the minority, and likely always will be.


Lulz, yes you are

How can you have professional sports if no one is allowed to get better at it when they're younger?
 
2013-03-19 09:29:24 AM

Generation_D: But FFS stop white knighting the attackers. Guilty with ample evidence. You weren't at the trial, neither was I, but this is a long long way from a girl recanting consensual sex two weeks later.


Maybe reading is hard, but I haven't seen much of that in this thread at all.

The inevitable words "cry rape" ALWAYS ignites a powder keg in these threads though.
 
2013-03-19 09:29:28 AM
What kind of person sees someone in a helpless state and says, "Cool, I am going to repeatedly assault that person!" What kind of community calls that sort of thing a youthful indiscretion? How do we raise women who think it's okay that men assault women? More importantly, how do we stop this?
 
2013-03-19 09:30:17 AM

CeroX: quickdraw: The Muthaship: quickdraw: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

It's not the football that's the problem. It's the rape. If you took all the sports out of all the schools in the world there would still be just as much rape.

It takes away a motive to cover it up.

No it doesn't. Rape is a crime. It is a crime that happens in many different places every day. It is just like other crimes such as theft or battery. The motive of the cover-up is to avoid prison time. No one wants their kid to go to prison.

cover up from parents yes, cover up from the community because they had "promising football careers" not so much... look at how the community in stubs is treating the victim, had the rapists been D&D nerds, i doubt the community would be as supportive of the rapists...

None of that is relevant to it being a crime and being a crime is not the question, the question is why the community, CNN, and other people on twitter are demonizing the vic, and the obvious answer is that it's because those kids were local high school football stars... They were the big fish in the little pond and to them, the school reputation, the school's chances for state, were all "ruined by that slut" because petty shallow people put more importance on school spirit and elevating the football player to greek hero status than for care on a life shattering crime... and THAT is carried on the back of highschool football...


No it's not. The same media response happens in ALL rape cases. Just like there is always some yokel who comes into every fark thread blathering about how people are often falsely accused of rape. The rape apologists are everywhere in every strata of our culture. What we don't usually have is video of the rape itself to make it clear that the target wasn't giving mixed signals.

The media frenzy is because of the video and the absolute undeniably guilty status of the rapists. A similar frenzy would have happened if the video had been taken anywhere else. The multiracial aspect of the case adds to the hype. In short. They are trolling.
 
2013-03-19 09:30:19 AM

HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

Or alternatively, they walk away without a mark and people start referring to the accuser as a doorknob and such. But I suppose that even happens post conviction for a sexual assault that was recorded and bragged about, amirite?


A not insignificant number of women are going hard in on this chick.  Ask yourself why.
 
2013-03-19 09:30:24 AM

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?


Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".


That's farked up!
 
2013-03-19 09:30:58 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: She, however, is NOT to be let off the hook.

Again, this is a chick who had morning after regrets because she couldn't pull the 'deny deny deny' card herself. There was proof she ended up with the short end of the stick when she went looking for the trouble she ended up finding.

If there is no investigation of this chick's home life and if she is not put into drug and alcohol rehab, some other dude -- maybe even a silly ass white knight currently saying she's blameless -- is going to end up on the short end of a future stick in relation to her.

/but i forogt: women are eternally blameless


What in the holy f*ck is wrong with you?
 
2013-03-19 09:31:21 AM

Tat'dGreaser: How can you have professional sports if no one is allowed to get better at it when they're younger?


Club sports.  I hate how things are done in Europe, but this is one thing they get pretty right.  There are very few school affiliated sports there.  At least in the way we think of them here.
 
2013-03-19 09:31:32 AM

Tat'dGreaser: The Muthaship: Just me.

This isn't the on'y reason, IMO.  I really do believe school affiliated sports are a net negative.  That goes for college, too.  I am not opposed to sport, but it needs to be separated from academics.

I am well aware that my opinion is the minority, and likely always will be.

Lulz, yes you are

How can you have professional sports if no one is allowed to get better at it when they're younger?


HeeHee. What you didz there - I seez it.
 
2013-03-19 09:31:57 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.

They can try, but they can't hide the number of women who say

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

and

Don't get blackout drunk.

So dont get drunk, rape someone, video tape it and forget you did it later?

Sounds like good advice.

Don't get blackout drunk, period.

Don't get drunk.

Don't willingly place yourself in bad situations for god knows what reason, multiple times.

Don't play with fire when it comes to waking up in strange situations. The first time, you're an idiot but you can learn from it.  The second time, you must actively want it.  The third and fourth and subsequent times, you must be actively seeking out such situations.. again for god knows what reasons.  Probably the same ones which led you to be well known for getting blackout drunk in your little community.

The boys were stupid.

She, however, is NOT to be let off the hook.

Again, this is a chick who had morning after regrets because she couldn't pull the 'deny deny deny' card herself.  There was proof she ended up with the short end of the stick when she went looking for the trouble she ended up finding.

If there is no investigation of this chick's home life and if she is not put into drug and alcohol rehab, some other dude -- maybe even a silly ass white knight currently saying she's blameless -- is going to end up on the short end of a future stick in relation to her.

/but i forogt: women are eternally blameless


You got some serious issues with women dude
 
2013-03-19 09:32:43 AM

The Muthaship: Club sports.  I hate how things are done in Europe, but this is one thing they get pretty right.  There are very few school affiliated sports there.  At least in the way we think of them here.


I may have been wasted the entire time, but I think I remember there being school sports in Germany.
 
2013-03-19 09:33:21 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Don't get drunk.


You want to bring back prohibition? Good luck with that lulz.
 
2013-03-19 09:33:41 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Don't get blackout drunk, period.

Don't get drunk.


Jeez, might as well just kill myself then.  What else is there to live for?
 
2013-03-19 09:34:22 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact:  The Tupac rule.  And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered.  But you record sexual acts to cover your ass.  If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?



Do you get some sort of jollies trying to vilify a woman for getting raped?

In my experience, I've noticed that the people most willing to brand a girl a slut are mad because she is having sex, and she isn't having sex with them.

I'll clarify something for you. Yes, there are consequences to drinking. If you get blackout drunk, your friends have a right to do some things, i.e. draw on your face with a Sharpie, make drunk text messages from your phone, etc. However, if you get blackout drunk, your friends DON"T have the right to rape you.

Why is that so difficult for some of you to understand?
 
2013-03-19 09:34:59 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

Or alternatively, they walk away without a mark and people start referring to the accuser as a doorknob and such. But I suppose that even happens post conviction for a sexual assault that was recorded and bragged about, amirite?

A not insignificant number of women are going hard in on this chick.  Ask yourself why.


I wasn't aware that women show complete solidarity in other cases.

How about you tell us why.
 
2013-03-19 09:35:00 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: A not insignificant number of women are going hard in on this chick. Ask yourself why.


*raises hand* I know I know!!!!! I know the answer to this one! It's because women can be sociopaths too!
 
2013-03-19 09:36:58 AM

Tat'dGreaser: The Muthaship: Just me.

This isn't the on'y reason, IMO.  I really do believe school affiliated sports are a net negative.  That goes for college, too.  I am not opposed to sport, but it needs to be separated from academics.

I am well aware that my opinion is the minority, and likely always will be.

Lulz, yes you are

How can you have professional sports if no one is allowed to get better at it when they're younger?


Wat

The little leagues aren't school sponsored.
 
2013-03-19 09:38:18 AM

quickdraw: CeroX: quickdraw: The Muthaship: quickdraw: The Muthaship: Football is fine.  Hell, all sports are fine.  They just need to be removed from schools.

It's not the football that's the problem. It's the rape. If you took all the sports out of all the schools in the world there would still be just as much rape.

It takes away a motive to cover it up.

No it doesn't. Rape is a crime. It is a crime that happens in many different places every day. It is just like other crimes such as theft or battery. The motive of the cover-up is to avoid prison time. No one wants their kid to go to prison.

cover up from parents yes, cover up from the community because they had "promising football careers" not so much... look at how the community in stubs is treating the victim, had the rapists been D&D nerds, i doubt the community would be as supportive of the rapists...

None of that is relevant to it being a crime and being a crime is not the question, the question is why the community, CNN, and other people on twitter are demonizing the vic, and the obvious answer is that it's because those kids were local high school football stars... They were the big fish in the little pond and to them, the school reputation, the school's chances for state, were all "ruined by that slut" because petty shallow people put more importance on school spirit and elevating the football player to greek hero status than for care on a life shattering crime... and THAT is carried on the back of highschool football...


No it's not. The same media response happens in ALL rape cases. Just like there is always some yokel who comes into every fark thread blathering about how people are often falsely accused of rape. The rape apologists are everywhere in every strata of our culture. What we don't usually have is video of the rape itself to make it clear that the target wasn't giving mixed signals.

The media frenzy is because of the video and the absolute undeniably guilty status of the rapists. A similar frenzy would have happened if the video had been taken anywhere else. The multiracial aspect of the case adds to the hype. In short. They are trolling.


Lame.  Someone having a different opinion from you is not the same as trolling.  "Oh noes, how dare someone have a different opinion than me!  They can't mean it! They must be saying it to get under my skin, no one could possibly think differently from me!"

Again, lame.

Yes, the amount of video and picture is unusual.................... for adults.  This is the world these kids live in, though.  They document everything.   Their parents and grandparents may have witnessed the same shiat, but no one was going to walk around with a $800 camcorder or whatever recording everything.  That was rich kid and Hollywood elite shiat.

Now, even the brokest of brokeass welfare recipients can get their hands on a cameraphone in America.  The kids are going to have to learn to use such documentation wisely.  Or the adults are going to have to learn not to be shocked by what such documentation reveals -- about their children, and about themselves at that age -- in the light of day.

As for rape apologists:  the only rape apologists are those who accept any accusation without any filters, and without trial for the accused.  You know, the folk who honestly believe that a rape accusation is meaningless to the person who has been accused because no 'victim' lies.
 
2013-03-19 09:40:08 AM

jso2897: ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.

They can try, but they can't hide the number of women who say

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

and

Don't get blackout drunk.

So dont get drunk, rape someone, video tape it and forget you did it later?

Sounds like good advice.

Don't get blackout drunk, period.

Don't get drunk.

Don't willingly place yourself in bad situations for god knows what reason, multiple times.

Don't play with fire when it comes to waking up in strange situations. The first time, you're an idiot but you can learn from it.  The second time, you must actively want it.  The third and fourth and subsequent times, you must be actively seeking out such situations.. again for god knows what reasons.  Probably the same ones which led you to be well known for getting blackout drunk in your little community.

The boys were stupid.

She, however, is NOT to be let off the hook.

Again, this is a chick who had morning after regrets because she couldn't pull the 'deny deny deny' card herself.  There was proof she ended up with the short end of the stick when she went looking for the trouble she ended up finding.

If there is no investigation of this chick's home life and if she is not put into drug and alcohol rehab, some other dude -- maybe even a silly ass white knight currently saying she's blameless -- is going to end up on the short end of a future stick in relation to her.

/but i forogt: women are eternally blameless

Saaaay....you're not one of the guys who stole my jewelry, are you?


No, I stole your bike.
And your fish.
 
2013-03-19 09:41:29 AM
As for rape apologists: the only rape apologists are those who accept any accusation without any filters, and without trial for the accused. You know, the folk who honestly believe that a rape accusation is meaningless to the person who has been accused because no 'victim' lies.

Except that isnt the case here. There were a room full of boys laughing about the crime as it was going on. There were photos of the passed out girl. You're white-knighting a situation that did not exist, except in your head. Which says something.
 
2013-03-19 09:42:33 AM

HotWingConspiracy: The little leagues aren't school sponsored.


Soooo rape and the little leagues is why we should remove all sports from schools? How about all social clubs from schools? You remove the jocks and it's only a matter of time before the state championship chess team starts raping girls at parties.
 
2013-03-19 09:43:20 AM

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: The little leagues aren't school sponsored.

Soooo rape and the little leagues is why we should remove all sports from schools? How about all social clubs from schools? You remove the jocks and it's only a matter of time before the state championship chess team starts raping girls at parties.


Checkmate, ho.
 
2013-03-19 09:44:21 AM
Meanwhile in some other shiat town, pics of a wasted 15 year old with a penis in her mouth are being posted to you got posted. farked up world we live in...
 
2013-03-19 09:46:59 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: As for rape apologists: the only rape apologists are those who accept any accusation without any filters, and without trial for the accused. You know, the folk who honestly believe that a rape accusation is meaningless to the person who has been accused because no 'victim' lies.


lol wut. You're hilarious. Now you have taken it upon yourself to define what a rape apologist is and under what conditions you will sanction a statement as an official rape apology.

However it is kind of you to give the media the benefit of the doubt here and assume their motives are sincere and that they really believe the nonsense they spew. We, more cynical farkers, recognize they are trolling a narrative for monetary gain but you cling to your innocence. It's real for you dammit!
 
2013-03-19 09:47:19 AM

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: The little leagues aren't school sponsored.

Soooo rape and the little leagues is why we should remove all sports from schools?


Never said that, just destroying your "but how dem kids gunna lern to throw stuff" argument.
 
2013-03-19 09:47:56 AM

stoli n coke: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact:  The Tupac rule.  And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered.  But you record sexual acts to cover your ass.  If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?


Do you get some sort of jollies trying to vilify a woman for getting raped?

In my experience, I've noticed that the people most willing to brand a girl a slut are mad because she is having sex, and she isn't having sex with them.

I'll clarify something for you. Yes, there are consequences to drinking. If you get blackout drunk, your friends have a right to do some things, i.e. draw on your face with a Sharpie, make drunk text messages from your phone, etc. However, if you get blackout drunk, your friends DON"T have the right to rape you.

Why is that so difficult for some of you to understand?


No.  No one has the right to be taken advantage of when blackout drunk.
There are no exceptions.
Making rape (specifically the rape of a female, right? not the rape of a male?) the lone exception is suspect  and heinous.  It is not feminism. It doesn't look out for women. It doesn't resolve the problem of folks being taken advantage of when blackout drunk.

These dudes stuck their fingers in vagina.
If she were a dude, they would have taken pictures of their ballsacks on her (his, in that case) face.
They molested her, just like it would have been molestation to place their ballsacks on her face.

Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

But let a woman get the equivalent of teabagged, and you same dudes are all about 'THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!'

Fool, please.

There will never be an equal society, when members of the society are treated unequally.

A dude who gets blackout drunk is told to suck it up, and his frat brothers and high school classmates are not called rapists when the pictures get out the next day.

Because Men Are Responsible For Their Actions.  Men have the mental fortitude to look out for themselves, and take care of themselves and make decisions for themselves.

Women... do not.  And a large segment of the population is most comfortable with women not being responsible for anything.
 
2013-03-19 09:49:41 AM
I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.
 
2013-03-19 09:50:26 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha


Ewwwww. Dude you really need a better class of friends.
 
2013-03-19 09:54:22 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: These dudes stuck their fingers in vagina.
If she were a dude, they would have taken pictures of their ballsacks on her (his, in that case) face.
They molested her, just like it would have been molestation to place their ballsacks on her face.

Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha


Boy does this guy wish that was true.
 
2013-03-19 09:54:38 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Never said that, just destroying your "but how dem kids gunna lern to throw stuff" argument.


They're already at school most of the day anyway! Might as well let them play sports.

It's not sports that's the problem, it's the local community mindset. That's it, take football away and they'll find something else to fixate on.
 
2013-03-19 09:56:14 AM
I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.



Your little attempt at logic is adorable
Next time, write it in all caps!
 
2013-03-19 09:58:05 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: stoli n coke: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact:  The Tupac rule.  And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered.  But you record sexual acts to cover your ass.  If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?


Do you get some sort of jollies trying to vilify a woman for getting raped?

In my experience, I've noticed that the people most willing to brand a girl a slut are mad because she is having sex, and she isn't having sex with them.

I'll clarify something for you. Yes, there are consequences to drinking. If you get blackout drunk, your friends have a right to do some things, i.e. draw on your face with a Sharpie, make drunk text messages from your phone, etc. However, if you get blackout drunk, your friends DON"T have the right to rape you.

Why is that so difficult for some of you to understand?

No.  No one has the right to be taken advantage of when blackout drunk.
There are no exceptions.
Making rape (specifically the rape of a female, right? not the rape of a male?) the lone exception is suspect  and heinous.  It is not feminism. It doesn't look out for women. It doesn't resolve the problem of folks bein ...


So i'm guessing at this point you are defending the boys actions because you have indeed done the same exact thing. I don't even think your trolling deserves a proper response. Fark you and your farked up opinion of what constitutes a rape. YOU ARE DEFENDING PEOPLE FOR FARKING A PASSED OUT TEENAGER AND THEN POSTING ABOUT IT ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA. DIAF, seriously.
 
2013-03-19 10:00:00 AM

quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

Ewwwww. Dude you really need a better class of friends.



Is that what this is about, ESC? Did you pass out and get teabagged, cause you've got more issues than the New York Times.
 
2013-03-19 10:01:03 AM

Jizz Master Zero: I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.


If everybody is drunk,
then why are men responsible for their yeses and noes
but women are not?

How many of the kids at that party were sober?
How many of the accused, those who stood around and those who participated,
were sober?

Again, Men Are Responsible.  Women Are Never Responsible.
Men are ultimately capable of consent at all times.
Women are ultimately rarely capable of consent at the best of times.

Those two young men who got drunk while underaged are now going to be sex offenders and go to Big Boy jail after juvie.  Because A Man Must Face Up To His Responsibilities.  They farked up.  To the pokie they go.

Women don't.  Women are children, and are to be treated as such.  They know not what they do, even when they do, because a Man is just that much more mentally capable of handling life, pressure, and consequences.

Women are not.

So yeah, they farked up.  So did she, though.  Her consequences are not as cut and dried as theirs, though.  The pushback is against declaring her blameless for her own situation.
 
2013-03-19 10:03:57 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jizz Master Zero: I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.

If everybody is drunk,
then why are men responsible for their yeses and noes
but women are not?

How many of the kids at that party were sober?
How many of the accused, those who stood around and those who participated,
were sober?

Again, Men Are Responsible.  Women Are Never Responsible.
Men are ultimately capable of consent at all times.
Women are ultimately rarely capable of consent at the best of times.

Those two young men who got drunk while underaged are now going to be sex offenders and go to Big Boy jail after juvie.  Because A Man Must Face Up To His Responsibilities.  They farked up.  To the pokie they go.

Women don't.  Women are children, and are to be treated as such.  They know not what they do, even when they do, because a Man is just that much more mentally capable of handling life, pressure, and consequences.

Women are not.

So yeah, they farked up.  So did she, though.  Her consequences are not as cut and dried as theirs, though.  The pushback is against declaring her blameless for her own situation.


Saved in RED as "Possible Rapist"
 
2013-03-19 10:04:07 AM

GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?


Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.
 
2013-03-19 10:04:24 AM

The Muthaship: Tat'dGreaser: Are people really trying to use this as a reason to get rid of high school sports?

Just me.

This isn't the on'y reason, IMO.  I really do believe school affiliated sports are a net negative.  That goes for college, too.  I am not opposed to sport, but it needs to be separated from academics.

I am well aware that my opinion is the minority, and likely always will be.


I am with you on this.
Education is for what it is and you would do well to eliminate sports and teach martial arts to all from kindergarten on up.
Also, teach logic. From simple Aristotle up to existential.

Tell me after 18 years of learning martial arts and logic you would be fooled into voting for a moran, bullied by a do-nut muncher, or unable to get a job writing code.
Heck, You would probably not over spend your paycheck, either.

What kind of a nation would it be if morons couldn't get elected, Bullies were stood up to and everyone had a job?
 
2013-03-19 10:04:57 AM

Tat'dGreaser: HotWingConspiracy: Never said that, just destroying your "but how dem kids gunna lern to throw stuff" argument.

They're already at school most of the day anyway! Might as well let them play sports.


I'd treat them like the dog whisperer guy treats fat unruly dogs, just make them run until they can't anymore. That would be first period.
 
2013-03-19 10:07:14 AM

deanis: So i'm guessing at this point you are defending the boys actions because you have indeed done the same exact thing. I don't even think your trolling deserves a proper response. Fark you and your farked up opinion of what constitutes a rape. YOU ARE DEFENDING PEOPLE FOR FARKING A PASSED OUT TEENAGER AND THEN POSTING ABOUT IT ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA. DIAF, seriously.


Calm down. He just doesn't want us to forget the REAL victims.
 
2013-03-19 10:08:38 AM
The apologists seem to not be familiar with the details of the case.

Also, there's plenty of statements to indicate the girl may have been drugged.  Not proof enough to be argued sufficiently in the trial, but this should at least be considered as a possibility.  The timeline from being completely fine to blackout drunk was a little to narrow for my tastes.  All this social media crap is timestamped, and people made statements about her being completely sober not long before all this went down.  Nothing stays under wraps here.   The victim herself told people she thought she was drugged.  Even if it's not true, shouldn't we consider that we don't know this was a simple case of someone drinking themselves into a blackout?  And this whole "she deserves some blame" crap.  Sure maybe she does, for blacking out, for the hangover I'm sure she had, if maybe someone drew a penis on her face, but for the rape of her lifeless body? And I bet I probably shouldn't wear short skirts either, right? Seriously, just keep that opinion to yourself or go back to 4chan with the other monkeys.

I mean, before we start slut-shaming someone and blaming her for being raped, take a second to think that there's lots of information that got lost with the gross purposeful mishandling of this case before outside authorities stepped in.
 
2013-03-19 10:10:09 AM
It's sad that this concept exists, but it does, and it may be happening in this thread right now. The best think we can do it to teach kids it's ok to go against the group sometimes. The victim's friend that texted her the next day, saying "I'm so sorry, there's nothing I could do" really pissed me off. Really? There's nothing you could have done to get your friend out of that situation? Nothing?
Then I remembered how we are all animals in a group: Deindividuation .
 
2013-03-19 10:10:25 AM

HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: These dudes stuck their fingers in vagina.
If she were a dude, they would have taken pictures of their ballsacks on her (his, in that case) face.
They molested her, just like it would have been molestation to place their ballsacks on her face.

Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

Boy does this guy wish that was true.


From your link:

- He's not required to register as a sex offender.
- He was only ultimately charged for two obscenity charges, which carry a two year sentence, and not the sexual battery charge which carries a 10 year sentence.
- The victim was a male Alabama fan, who passed out in the presence of male LSU fans.

Suck it up, male Alabama fan.  You were not the victim of a sexual assault.  But you do have a great lawyer, and lucky for you the presiding judge was a female.
 
2013-03-19 10:10:37 AM

SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?

Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.


Yet people like ESC will defend these actions. I seriously think he has vast knowledge of the topic from committing these crimes first hand.
 
2013-03-19 10:16:02 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: These dudes stuck their fingers in vagina.
If she were a dude, they would have taken pictures of their ballsacks on her (his, in that case) face.
They molested her, just like it would have been molestation to place their ballsacks on her face.

Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

Boy does this guy wish that was true.

From your link:

- He's not required to register as a sex offender.
- He was only ultimately charged for two obscenity charges, which carry a two year sentence, and not the sexual battery charge which carries a 10 year sentence.
- The victim was a male Alabama fan, who passed out in the presence of male LSU fans.

Suck it up, male Alabama fan.  You were not the victim of a sexual assault.  But you do have a great lawyer, and lucky for you the presiding judge was a female.


Still served to ruin your argument. He was prosecuted for teabagging, which you wanted to indicate doesn't happen.
 
2013-03-19 10:16:32 AM

Farce-Side: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jizz Master Zero: I don't know why people don't like these threads. It provides a wonderful opportunity to cull idiots like cardex from the herd.

It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes. If they're passing out or have passed out at any point in the night, they're too drunk to consent, even if they come to later and seem okay. Period. End of discussion. There's no room for debate. There's no gray area. It's black and white, plain and simple. Any, "Aw, but she shouldn't have gotten drunk," or, "Her parents shouldn't have let her out," is just bullshiat rationalization and irrelevant, seeing as, you know, someone was interacted with sexually without consent. That's the magic word here, kiddies: Consent. When it comes to sexual interactions, there's no wiggle room, no allowance for interpretation. It has to be absolute. It's absolutely pathetic that this still has to be spelled out.

If everybody is drunk,
then why are men responsible for their yeses and noes
but women are not?

How many of the kids at that party were sober?
How many of the accused, those who stood around and those who participated,
were sober?

Again, Men Are Responsible.  Women Are Never Responsible.
Men are ultimately capable of consent at all times.
Women are ultimately rarely capable of consent at the best of times.

Those two young men who got drunk while underaged are now going to be sex offenders and go to Big Boy jail after juvie.  Because A Man Must Face Up To His Responsibilities.  They farked up.  To the pokie they go.

Women don't.  Women are children, and are to be treated as such.  They know not what they do, even when they do, because a Man is just that much more mentally capable of handling life, pressure, and consequences.

Women are not.

So yeah, they farked up.  So did she, though.  Her consequences are not as cut and dried as theirs, though.  The pushback is against declaring her blameless for her own situation.

Saved in RED as "Possible Rapist"


I used to think he was just a troll, but trolls usually slip up. Despite being on my ignore list for at least a couple of years he still pops up in quotes, so I see a lovely sampling of his rantings like the above. Now I just picture him as Vic Morrow's character in Twilight Zone: The Movie.
 
2013-03-19 10:19:35 AM
I really "adore" how many people say things like "don't drink stoopid" or "why did her parents let her go out" when horrible situations like this come up. As if they never snuck out of their bedroom window, lied that they were going to a movie with a friend only to meet someone else, or had their first experience with (insert type of alcohol that they're never touching again here). When someone else is in a terrible situation all of a sudden they become saints.

One of these days, someone who has miles of these sort of tweets and posts will be in court trying to justify why they didn't take their own advice.

/no I do not wish anything horrible on anyone
//well, maybe a sudden non fatal allergy to everything that is unhealthy but absolutely delicious in life
///maybe just a very present rash on both of their faces
 
2013-03-19 10:19:53 AM
How much would you bet that most of these kids still party together?
 
2013-03-19 10:20:14 AM

HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: HotWingConspiracy: ExperianScaresCthulhu: These dudes stuck their fingers in vagina.
If she were a dude, they would have taken pictures of their ballsacks on her (his, in that case) face.
They molested her, just like it would have been molestation to place their ballsacks on her face.

Teabagging hahahahahah so funny hahahahahhaha its your own fault for passing out dude hahahahhaha

Boy does this guy wish that was true.

From your link:

- He's not required to register as a sex offender.
- He was only ultimately charged for two obscenity charges, which carry a two year sentence, and not the sexual battery charge which carries a 10 year sentence.
- The victim was a male Alabama fan, who passed out in the presence of male LSU fans.

Suck it up, male Alabama fan.  You were not the victim of a sexual assault.  But you do have a great lawyer, and lucky for you the presiding judge was a female.

Still served to ruin your argument. He was prosecuted for teabagging, which you wanted to indicate doesn't happen.


Then why is that asshole Rand Paul still running around loose?
 
2013-03-19 10:20:59 AM

Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?


Huh? You know most bullying is done by girls, right?
 
2013-03-19 10:23:03 AM

deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?

Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.

Yet people like ESC will defend these actions. I seriously think he has vast knowledge of the topic from committing these crimes first hand.


"People like ESC" want what's good for the gander to be good for the goose, in these situations.

That 'possibly penetrating her anally' is a hoot and a half though.  Gotta add that in there, though there's no proof whatsoever, right? because what really happened isn't bad enough for those who do the telling.

Takes it from molestation to penetration, and not just any kind of penetration but the kind a straight man understands as unwanted.  I see ya working.

I just don't agree with where you're going with it.  Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out?  Or is that just on the same level as 'possibly penetrating her anally'?

/To Young Men:  Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men
 
2013-03-19 10:23:59 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: stoli n coke: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact:  The Tupac rule.  And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered.  But you record sexual acts to cover your ass.  If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?


Do you get some sort of jollies trying to vilify a woman for getting raped?

In my experience, I've noticed that the people most willing to brand a girl a slut are mad because she is having sex, and she isn't having sex with them.

I'll clarify something for you. Yes, there are consequences to drinking. If you get blackout drunk, your friends have a right to do some things, i.e. draw on your face with a Sharpie, make drunk text messages from your phone, etc. However, if you get blackout drunk, your friends DON"T have the right to rape you.

Why is that so difficult for some of you to understand?

No.  No one has the right to be taken advantage of when blackout drunk.
There are no exceptions.
Making rape (specifically the rape of a female, right? not the rape of a male?) the lone exception is suspect  and heinous.  It is not feminism. It doesn't look out for women. It doesn't resolve the problem of folks bein ...


Honest question: Do you actually not recognise the difference between drawing someone with a sharpie and sexual assault?  Because that seems to be what you're saying here.   "Yes a girl was raped, but someone drew a Hitler mustache on me when I passed out, that's just as bad!"
 
2013-03-19 10:25:07 AM

Therion: I say we take off and nuke the entire site (Ohio) from orbit, just to be sure.


As a lifelong Ohio resident, I'm strangely comfortable with this.

Gimme a couple days notice so I can move the gf, her cat, and both of our computers and immediate families out first, though.  Oh, and the coffee stash.

/because coffee
 
2013-03-19 10:27:26 AM

CWeinerWV: The apologists seem to not be familiar with the details of the case.


Has an excellent timeline (excellent but disgusting).

Long story short.  She was pass out drunk, unable to talk coherently at a minimum, when the sexual acts began...including the flashing of her breasts for her, leaving her topless in the middle of the street, taking pics of her, penetrating her on multiple occasions with fingers, and peeing on her.  And those are just the things confirmed by those who didn't do that acts.  The other stuff rumored to have happened (by people tweeting at the time) included slapping her with their genitals on camera, anal sex.
 
2013-03-19 10:28:11 AM

Peekachicka: I really "adore" how many people say things like "don't drink stoopid" or "why did her parents let her go out" when horrible situations like this come up. As if they never snuck out of their bedroom window, lied that they were going to a movie with a friend only to meet someone else, or had their first experience with (insert type of alcohol that they're never touching again here). When someone else is in a terrible situation all of a sudden they become saints.


Except that just like not everyone started having sex at the age of 12, not everyone became a blackout drunk by 14.  Like in that recent story of the kids who died in the car crash, who were accused of stealing the car they drowned in (except for the kid who was pinned under it in the pond after the car hit the barrier) -- not everyone experiments with grand theft by the age of 15.

For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK.  She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.
 
2013-03-19 10:28:17 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?

Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.

Yet people like ESC will defend these actions. I seriously think he has vast knowledge of the topic from committing these crimes first hand.

"People like ESC" want what's good for the gander to be good for the goose, in these situations.

That 'possibly penetrating her anally' is a hoot and a half though.  Gotta add that in there, though there's no proof whatsoever, right? because what really happened isn't bad enough for those who do the telling.

Takes it from molestation to penetration, and not just any kind of penetration but the kind a straight man understands as unwanted.  I see ya working.

I just don't agree with where you're going with it.  Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russ ...


Wait, so you're saying you were there, and have first hand knowledge that the girl wasn't raped?  Why didn't you come forward before those young men were convicted?
 
2013-03-19 10:29:38 AM

Peekachicka: I really "adore" how many people say things like "don't drink stoopid" or "why did her parents let her go out" when horrible situations like this come up. As if they never snuck out of their bedroom window, lied that they were going to a movie with a friend only to meet someone else, or had their first experience with (insert type of alcohol that they're never touching again here). When someone else is in a terrible situation all of a sudden they become saints.

One of these days, someone who has miles of these sort of tweets and posts will be in court trying to justify why they didn't take their own advice.

/no I do not wish anything horrible on anyone
//well, maybe a sudden non fatal allergy to everything that is unhealthy but absolutely delicious in life
///maybe just a very present rash on both of their faces


I like you. Welcome to TF!
 
2013-03-19 10:30:33 AM
I live here, and I hate to say this, but.....

It's Ohio, these girls doing this to the victim, and the fact that football seems more important than someone being victimized is not surprising. Sad to say it, but that's Ohio.


Please someone help sponsor us normal people to leave this state, please!!!! (Then Nuke the hell out of it.)
 
2013-03-19 10:32:26 AM

GoldSpider: How much would you bet that most of these kids still party together?


I dunno - something like this does put a crimp on the partying for a little while. Twenty years from now there is an excellent documentary to be made of the effects to the social life of the town.
 
2013-03-19 10:32:38 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK. She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.


Your concern for her well being is noted.  Can you please back off a lot and realize that this case isn't about you?
 
2013-03-19 10:34:09 AM

Jorn the Younger: Honest question: Do you actually not recognise the difference between drawing someone with a sharpie and sexual assault?  Because that seems to be what you're saying here.   "Yes a girl was raped, but someone drew a Hitler mustache on me when I passed out, that's just as bad!"



I recognize there are two different rules, one for each gender, which is illustrated by HotWingConspiracy's court case of the LSU fan versus the Alabama fan whether HWC wants to acknowledge it or not.

As for drawing on a drunken person, the drunken person did not consent.  By making exceptions to the rule, one confuses the rules.  Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are.  Trying to parse shiat with 'well, this isn't as bad as this' always leads to differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal and what isn't.

And, again, if the guys were also drunk, all bets should be off. Except that they aren't.  Suck it up.
 
2013-03-19 10:35:00 AM

publikenemy: sevente: publikenemy: I heard that the black lawyer said something to the effect of "if only you chose to hang with only your black friends that night. We totally could've beat this thing if your co-defendant were black. I could've used my handy dandy "rush-to-judgement racism" card, and we coulda beat this thing."...and he would have had many supporters. Including here on good ol' Fark

Did you even read what you just typed or did the stupid just fall out on to the keyboard?


Idk what world you live in, but this defense is used every day. To the point where the word hardly has meaning anymore


I did feel sorry for that kid (Malik?) when I found out his dad had been in prison. Who was around to teach him to be a proper man? Obviously not his football coaches.
 
2013-03-19 10:36:51 AM

I_C_Weener: ExperianScaresCthulhu: For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK. She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.

Your concern for her well being is noted.  Can you please back off a lot and realize that this case isn't about you?


I dunno. It kind of sounds like it is. FWIW I have him farkied as a Rapeublican now.
 
2013-03-19 10:41:06 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jorn the Younger: Honest question: Do you actually not recognise the difference between drawing someone with a sharpie and sexual assault?  Because that seems to be what you're saying here.   "Yes a girl was raped, but someone drew a Hitler mustache on me when I passed out, that's just as bad!"


I recognize there are two different rules, one for each gender, which is illustrated by HotWingConspiracy's court case of the LSU fan versus the Alabama fan whether HWC wants to acknowledge it or not.

As for drawing on a drunken person, the drunken person did not consent.  By making exceptions to the rule, one confuses the rules.  Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are.  Trying to parse shiat with 'well, this isn't as bad as this' always leads to differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal and what isn't.

And, again, if the guys were also drunk, all bets should be off. Except that they aren't.  Suck it up.


Ok, so you don't understand the difference.  Thanks for answering.

So you know, referring to rape as "shenanigans" isn't going to win you very many friends.
 
2013-03-19 10:42:26 AM

Madame Ovary: publikenemy: sevente: publikenemy: I heard that the black lawyer said something to the effect of "if only you chose to hang with only your black friends that night. We totally could've beat this thing if your co-defendant were black. I could've used my handy dandy "rush-to-judgement racism" card, and we coulda beat this thing."...and he would have had many supporters. Including here on good ol' Fark

Did you even read what you just typed or did the stupid just fall out on to the keyboard?


Idk what world you live in, but this defense is used every day. To the point where the word hardly has meaning anymore

I did feel sorry for that kid (Malik?) when I found out his dad had been in prison. Who was around to teach him to be a proper man? Obviously not his football coaches.


Um..... I'm guessing the same people who teach all the other fatherless kids not to rape? I mean.... wth? Why does this even need to be explained?
 
2013-03-19 10:43:15 AM

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?


Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".


Just one of many reasons why I roll my eye in other threads when people cite the UCR as if it were Holy Writ.  The UCR only handles a limited number of crimes under very specific definitions through a system of voluntary self-reporting by law-enforcement agencies that choose to cooperate.

However, the flaws of the UCR system have nothing to do with the prosecution of sexual offenses not performed in conjunction with kidnapping or other inter-state crimes.  If local cops won't prosecute, then blame the lazy donut chuggers who made the call, not the guys who designed an annual voluntary data reporting system.
 
2013-03-19 10:44:12 AM

Jorn the Younger: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Jorn the Younger: Honest question: Do you actually not recognise the difference between drawing someone with a sharpie and sexual assault?  Because that seems to be what you're saying here.   "Yes a girl was raped, but someone drew a Hitler mustache on me when I passed out, that's just as bad!"


I recognize there are two different rules, one for each gender, which is illustrated by HotWingConspiracy's court case of the LSU fan versus the Alabama fan whether HWC wants to acknowledge it or not.

As for drawing on a drunken person, the drunken person did not consent.  By making exceptions to the rule, one confuses the rules.  Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are.  Trying to parse shiat with 'well, this isn't as bad as this' always leads to differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal and what isn't.

And, again, if the guys were also drunk, all bets should be off. Except that they aren't.  Suck it up.

Ok, so you don't understand the difference.  Thanks for answering.

So you know, referring to rape as "shenanigans" isn't going to win you very many friends.


I guess you don't need to make friends when you just rape whoever happens to be lying around. Saves on date expenses and avoids that whole pesky condom thing.
 
2013-03-19 10:44:28 AM
ExperianScaresCthulhu:

Because Men Are Responsible For Their Actions.  Men have the mental fortitude to look out for themselves, and take care of themselves and make decisions for themselves.

Women... do not.  And a large segment of the population is most comfortable with women not being responsible for anything.


Yeah, isn't that why we pay them $.72 on the dollar?
 
2013-03-19 10:48:27 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: A dude who gets blackout drunk is told to suck it up, and his frat brothers and high school classmates are not called rapists when the pictures get out the next day.

Because Men Are Responsible For Their Actions. Men have the mental fortitude to look out for themselves, and take care of themselves and make decisions for themselves.

Women... do not. And a large segment of the population is most comfortable with women not being responsible for anything.


You are a very damaged individual. Do you have any insight as to why? Have you tried to find out, because I for one would like to find out whatever the hell it was that caused you to view the world this way, so I can have some sort of benefit concert or rubber bracelet campaign in order to ensure it never happens to anyone else.

Seriously, you would like victims to take more ownership of their rape? Acknowledge that everyone did something wrong and both sides can forgive, forget and move on with a smile, because now they have some nice new, amusing rape anecdotes to tell at parties?

Sexual assault is 100% not, never under any circumstances, the responsibility of the raped.
High on shrooms and wandering naked round the bar, stupid thing to do (IMHO) but if you are Sexual assaulted it is still because of the rapist.
Had sex with 4 out of 5 boys at a party and say no to the 5th? Not behaviour I'd personally recommend, but if you are then assaulted it is still because of the rapist.
And, seriously, to claim there is any sort of gender bias at play is completely and utterly insane. The gender of the people doesn't change the one incontrovertible fact of the matter, in any sexual act both (all, if that is your thing) parties must be able to consent. If anyone can't (or doesn't) then stop what you are doing and go find someone who will or a nice inanimate object which doesn't have to.
If the person you are with is too drunk to say yes, that is the same as saying no. If the person you are with is so high they think you are Jim Morrison and it might be a yes... Wait until they land, give them plenty of water and somewhere safe to sleep it off and at some later point, when they are certain of who you are, confirm it was a yes and then have your fun.
Seriously, not raping (or sexually assaulting) people is really easy.
 
2013-03-19 10:51:33 AM
I just listened to a call in news show (on NPR of all places) where a man called in and said he "hoped he wouldn't have done something like that if the opportnity presented itself when he was younger but, well, boys will be boys". I'm sorry but from 18-22 I lived in a crazy party house where someone was as wasted as that girl at least once or twice a week and nothing like that ever happened nor would it have been allowed to happen. Too many people are excusing the behavior and blaming the victim. I just don't see how you can be so lacking in empathy that you not only let something like this happen but make the victim the butt of jokes. I know it is not something new and has happened probably for as long as humans have gathered in tribes but I just don't get it.
 
2013-03-19 10:51:48 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.


.......I just don't agree with where you're going with it.  Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out?  Or is that just on the same level as 'possibly penetrating her anally'?

/To Young Men:  Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men


This explains a lot.
 
2013-03-19 10:53:08 AM
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-03-19 10:54:49 AM

LovingTeacher: I just listened to a call in news show (on NPR of all places) where a man called in and said he "hoped he wouldn't have done something like that if the opportnity presented itself when he was younger but, well, boys will be boys". I'm sorry but from 18-22 I lived in a crazy party house where someone was as wasted as that girl at least once or twice a week and nothing like that ever happened nor would it have been allowed to happen. Too many people are excusing the behavior and blaming the victim. I just don't see how you can be so lacking in empathy that you not only let something like this happen but make the victim the butt of jokes. I know it is not something new and has happened probably for as long as humans have gathered in tribes but I just don't get it.


I like you. Welcome to TF.
 
2013-03-19 10:55:32 AM

I_C_Weener: ExperianScaresCthulhu: For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK. She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.

Your concern for her well being is noted.  Can you please back off a lot and realize that this case isn't about you?


Ah, but it is. The whole thing here is the fear of the dimunition of male power. Raping the town slut used to be an accepted male privilege - and it is being taken away, leading to the fear :"What next? What male power will be stripped from us in the future?"
Just like the hillbilly who argued "Well, if we let them ride in the front of the bus, won't they want into our schools? And if we allow that, won't they want to marry our daughters?"
The weak and insecure man instinctively knows that without artificial male privilege, he is just a scared punk with nothing. It's sad, but it's not uncommon. I don't hold it against them - they are to be pitied.
They really do think they are the "real" victims.
 
2013-03-19 10:59:35 AM

ADHD Librarian: Snarfangel: WTF is wrong with some people? And girls? Not just misanthropic basement-dwelling Cheeto-stained football nuts?

On of the reason that other girls (and women) are often the most vocal when it comes to victim shaming is a rather unfortunate quirk of human psychology. When (some) girls look at this situation they see something which seems familiar to them, they too have had too much to drink at a party or trusted some boy more than they should. Yet, they have not been raped. Rather than look at this as normal (seriously girls, most of us men have a 100% success in not raping anyone), or as fortunate (yes, not 100% of men manage to die without having raped someone), the human brain tries to find a reason. So, 'obviously' they were not raped when they passed out at the party because {{insert rationalisation here}}. t may be because they 'didn't dress like that' or didn't 'lead them on' or 'flirt' or because everyone knows they are not like 'that'...
As such, their own sense of security comes from a fallacy of their own imagining which requires the rape victim to have had some hand in her own situation. After all, if it isn't partially her fault, why, it is almost like it could happen to anyone?

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?
//I am not saying that the situation with these two boys is such a case
///sometimes it is bloody obvious who the perpetrator(s) is (are)


Thanks for this! "If it wasn't her fault, then it could have happened to me"
 
2013-03-19 11:03:26 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out?


Now, I am going to try 'sane' here (try it, you may like it) and accept that you have said this because someone suggested she may have been drugged.
BUT!
At the point she has passed out (be it from Vodak, pills she took, pills someone slipped in her soda water...)
At that point she is unable to consent and as such it is not time for sexytime. Sure you may argue "Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are." Oh, wait, you did you giant steaming moran. But, in fact some shenanigans involving the drunken are in fact illegal and at this point in time drawing Harry Potter glasses and a lightning bolt scar on someone is in the 'legal' column while 'sexual assault' is not.
Really, I could use your logic to suggest that either all sexual encounters involving a penis and a vagina are off-limits, or none are. After all, we don't want to confuse people. How is a young boy supposed to understand that one vagina lets him in but a different one might not. Let alone that his girlfriend allows him to have sex with her once in her bed but gets all upset when he tries it on the dinner table when he is meeting her parents. Really isn't that just differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal?
 
2013-03-19 11:06:19 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: /To Young Men:  Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men


Why not. When we had house parties in college, we had both men and women there. Underaged and of age. We tried to keep the noise down, if someone got too drunk, the worst we'd do is pose them funny or outline them with beer bottles. Most of the time, we'd make sure they found a comfortable place to sleep it off. Surprisingly, amidst all these claims of "Rape Society" and "Crying Rape" and "All Men are rapists" and "All Women are lying whores" no one who ever came to our drinking parties was ever touched inappropriately, molested, raped, hurt or otherwise.
 
2013-03-19 11:08:01 AM
ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?


A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.
 
2013-03-19 11:08:27 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I recognize there are two different rules, one for each gender, which is illustrated by HotWingConspiracy's court case of the LSU fan versus the Alabama fan whether HWC wants to acknowledge it or not.


Wrong, you just don't understand that in most states a sexual motivation is required to bring sex assault charges. If you'd like to argue these guys weren't motivated by sex, go for it.

I still ruined your assertion.
 
2013-03-19 11:09:54 AM
You know what's laughable about this entire thread...

The biggest point about being black out drunk are the people who think when someone says "Don't get black out drunk or you could get raped"

is interpreting that as "that internet meanie says black out drunk is asking for rape so it's blaming the victim and justifying rape culture"

when the reality is:

It's not asking to get raped, no one asks to get raped... And it's not implied... What the reality is, it opens the door of opportunistic rapists to rape... To them, it's an opportunity, one they couldn't take if the playing field was leveled. That makes them cowardly scum rapists instead of aggressive asshole rapists...

No one is justifying what they did except controversy stirring media shills... And no one is BLAMING the victim...

The argument about pass out drinking is this:
It doesn't matter if you are male, or female, getting so drunk you pass out is an opportunity for scumbags. Some scumbags might just vandalize your face, which may or may not be emotionally traumatizing... Some scumbags will pose you for scandalous pictures and post them on the internet... The truly evil scumbags will rape you...

So the advice is: Don't get pass out drunk, because while there's no excuse for people being scumbags, telling  people that to do that makes them scumbags isn't going to stop them from being scumbags, that's why they are scumbags...

You can't just get on the internet and berate a bunch of people and tell them they are a murder culture and to not to murder and expect the murder rate to drop... Murders will still happen, but as a society, we have a general idea on how to avoid getting murdered... such as, don't fark your best friends wife... it could get you murdered... don't screw over your drug dealer, it WILL get you murdered... don't wear rival gang colors when you're on someone else's turf, you could get murdered... that's not blaming the victim or potential victims, it's trying to get people to not get murdered...

We are trying to help people not get raped... it's not easy to identify rapists, they don't dress in special clothes, there's no gang signs or colors for rapists, and they don't walk around with raging rapist hard ons... so we advise, rapists could be anywhere, and we don't want you to get raped, so please don't get so drunk you pass out, because you might not get raped the first time, or the fifth time, but the risk of getting raped is probably hundreds of times higher than when you aren't passed out...

Risky behavior is a numbers game before something catastrophic happens... just ask Steve Irwin
 
2013-03-19 11:10:46 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: By the way, I am not suggesting that women are normally nicer than men (that's an argument for another day). I'm just saying that if a couple of woman ganged up and cut off  some innocent guy's Mr. Happy while he was drunk and forwarded pictures of the crime to all of their friends, I don't think a whole lot of men would make threats to the victim if the women were convicted. They would at least have some empathy at how horrific such a crime was.

Yes, even if they were 15 and 16 years old, and the women were beach volleyball stars or whatever. There are some things you just don't do.

Different crime.  When Mr. Happy is damaged, the man is unquestionably wronged.  No one asks whether he wanted it.

When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


Inflicted amputation isn't rape -- it's mayhem. They are different crimes.
 
2013-03-19 11:14:39 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

Just because you don't understand football there is no reason to bash it.

You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?

Not drunk - passed out. And "fingerbanging" her as you so charmingly put it is only what they were convicted of, if you read the court transcripts, the Tweets and texts, you'll see references to taking pics of her naked passed out body, slapping her with their penises, ejaculating on her, possibly penetrating her anally and inviting people to pee on her.

Yet people like ESC will defend these actions. I seriously think he has vast knowledge of the topic from committing these crimes first hand.

"People like ESC" want what's good for the gander to be good for the goose, in these situations.

That 'possibly penetrating her anally' is a hoot and a half though.  Gotta add that in there, though there's no proof whatsoever, right? because what really happened isn't bad enough for those who do the telling.

Takes it from molestation to penetration, and not just any kind of penetration but the kind a straight man understands as unwanted.  I see ya working.

I just don't agree with where you're going with it.  Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out?  Or is that just on the same level as 'possibly penetrating her anally'?

/To Young Men:  Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men


There is circumstantial evidence in the collection of texts and tweets - not enough for a conviction but enough to know that people at the parties believed it occurred.
 
2013-03-19 11:15:01 AM

ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?


In an objective interpretation, both are simultaneously the victims of a rape and also the perpetrators.

In practice, that's a hard prosecution, because all witnesses are hostile to the prosecution.
 
2013-03-19 11:15:15 AM

quickdraw: ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.


A person who is capable of actively DOING something to someone else is, by definition, responsible for their actions. A situation in which both or all parties involved are passed-out drunk or high is a situtation in which nothing is going to happen anyway. If someone possesses the faculties to DO something TO someone else, they possess the faculties to erfrain from doing it.
 
2013-03-19 11:17:53 AM

SundaesChild: There is circumstantial evidence in the collection of texts and tweets - not enough for a conviction but enough to know that people at the parties believed it occurred.


There's a conviction from a court of law, one with access to details, facts, and evidence we aren't.  Between this thread and the last one, I'm kinda assuming the people complaining there's no evidence these criminals are criminals simply want access to the pictures and videos taken of the victim, for their own satisfaction.
 
2013-03-19 11:18:12 AM

CeroX: The argument about pass out drinking is this:
It doesn't matter if you are male, or female, getting so drunk you pass out is an opportunity for scumbags


No it isn't. In social environments where rape is considered unacceptable raping an unconscious person is not seen as an easy opportunity because the people around you will object.
 
2013-03-19 11:20:08 AM

jso2897: quickdraw: ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.

A person who is capable of actively DOING something to someone else is, by definition, responsible for their actions. A situation in which both or all parties involved are passed-out drunk or high is a situtation in which nothing is going to happen anyway. If someone possesses the faculties to DO something TO someone else, they possess the faculties to erfrain from doing it.


Actually, no.  In most places, you don't have to be "passed out drunk" to be unable to consent, you only have to be "impaired", to legally be unable to consent.
 
2013-03-19 11:24:43 AM

BunkoSquad: It's basically time to burn Steubenville to the ground and salt the earth so nothing grows again there, isn't it?


I'm okay with this

/Duke has to go, too
 
2013-03-19 11:26:35 AM
i.imgur.com

/Well, there's your problem
 
2013-03-19 11:28:06 AM
Also, when I have been at parties when my friends (of either sex) were black out drunk, my initial reaction was to call a cab and get them home safely, not draw penises on their faces or find someone suitably equipped to "tea bag" them.
 
2013-03-19 11:31:24 AM

quickdraw: ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.


Not going to argue with that at all. In fact I will agree with you 100%.
But I suspect you have misconstrued my point. No problem, I write in a very awkward style so I will try and keep the myriad of commas under control and rephrase...

Given that (at least here where I am) a person who is impaired by alcohol cannot consent to sex and (again, where I am) sex without consent is rape (it seems from some discussions this is not always the case, so lets assume I am using rape/sexual assault interchangeably as a colloquial, rather than legal definition).
Umm,
Take 3...
If sex without consent is rape and an intoxicated person cannot consent, what happens when 2 intoxicated people have a sexual encounter. Are they both rapists and also both victims?
I asked the question in a training course because as someone who works with young people I felt that there was an ambiguity in the language and teenagers do not always deal well with ambiguity.
I mentioned it here as an aside (and probably shouldn't as it was not pertinent to this case, well, perhaps except in the sense that when only 1 of you is conscious such technicalities are irrelevant and offer absolutely no defence).
 
2013-03-19 11:36:37 AM

ADHD Librarian: quickdraw: ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.

Not going to argue with that at all. In fact I will agree with you 100%.
But I suspect you have misconstrued my point. No problem, I write in a very awkward style so I will try and keep the myriad of commas under control and rephrase...

Given that (at least here where I am) a person who is impaired by alcohol cannot consent to sex and (again, where I am) sex without consent is rape (it seems from some discussions this is not always the case, so lets assume I am using rape/sexual assault interchangeably as a colloquial, rather than legal definition).
Umm,
Take 3...
If sex without consent is rape and an intoxicated person cannot consent, what happens when 2 intoxicated people have a sexual encounter. Are they both rapists and also both victims?
I asked the question in a training course because as someone who works with young people I felt that there was an ambiguity in the language and teenagers do not always deal well with ambiguity.
I mentioned it here as an aside (and probably shouldn't as it was not pertinent to this case, well, perhaps except in the sense that when only 1 of you is conscious such technicalities are irrelevant ...


Ignoring that both people are drunk, are they both willing participants? Or is one doing most/all of the work?
 
2013-03-19 11:36:38 AM

CeroX: You know what's laughable about this entire thread...

The biggest point about being black out drunk are the people who think when someone says "Don't get black out drunk or you could get raped"

is interpreting that as "that internet meanie says black out drunk is asking for rape so it's blaming the victim and justifying rape culture"

when the reality is:

It's not asking to get raped, no one asks to get raped... And it's not implied... What the reality is, it opens the door of opportunistic rapists to rape... To them, it's an opportunity, one they couldn't take if the playing field was leveled. That makes them cowardly scum rapists instead of aggressive asshole rapists...

No one is justifying what they did except controversy stirring media shills... And no one is BLAMING the victim...
....

We are trying to help people not get raped... it's not easy to identify rapists, they don't dress in special clothes, there's no gang signs or colors for rapists, and they don't walk around with raging rapist hard ons... so we advise, rapists could be anywhere, and we don't want you to get raped, so please don't get so drunk you pass out, because you might not get raped the first time, or the fifth time, but the risk of getting raped is probably hundreds of times higher than when you aren't passed out...

Risky behavior is a numbers game before something catastrophic happens... just ask Steve Irwin
 ...

Exactly, no one asks to be stabbed in the chest by a stingray, but if you swim around the barrier reef half naked, it's just a matter of time!

how is that any different? yeah no one should be raped, freakin obviously, but when you can't know or trust those around you you should never let yourself, an underage girl, drink yourself into a blackout. that's just idiotic because then you're at the mercy of whoever else is there and it's just a matter of time until it happens when someone with equally impaired judgement is there to take advantage. I'm not "blaming the victim" so don't even claim that I am, but in this case  she can't be completely absolved either.
 
2013-03-19 11:39:32 AM

quickdraw: ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.


accept according to the LAW, minors are incapable of giving consent... so that person's point, is that LEGALLY speaking, 2 people who are 14 who have sex, are, by LAW incapable of consensual sex, therefore, WHO is the rapist by LEGAL definition?

This isn't your opinion, OR the opinion of the general populace... we ALL know that if someone forces or coerces themselves on a person who didn't consent to sex that it's rape... but there are soft issues, such as 2 people who the law says are incapable of making a consensual sexual decisions... so who's "at fault"? The law simply turns a blind eye to those situations or it criminalizes the males because males are defaulted as the aggressor where women are concerned...

So put aside YOUR opinion and look at the law as it is written

Seriously, i hope you are never on jury, you can't seem to look at the law objectively, and certainly incapable of looking at rape objectively, and more than willing to sling mud at those of us who look at rape from a legal standpoint and therefore look at the cases objectively... Just come out and admit that you are incapable of having a rational objective conversation about rape and politely excuse yourself from the conversation and let those who understand debate play on the internet...
 
2013-03-19 11:57:44 AM

Jorn the Younger: jso2897: quickdraw: ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.

A person who is capable of actively DOING something to someone else is, by definition, responsible for their actions. A situation in which both or all parties involved are passed-out drunk or high is a situtation in which nothing is going to happen anyway. If someone possesses the faculties to DO something TO someone else, they possess the faculties to erfrain from doing it.

Actually, no.  In most places, you don't have to be "passed out drunk" to be unable to consent, you only have to be "impaired", to legally be unable to consent.


If you're sober enough to get a hardon, you're sober enough to be responsible for what you do with it. If you are sober enough to control and dictate what happens, you are responsible for what happens.  The point is that if two individuals are REALLY equally "incapacitated. by definition, neither can do anything to the other. If one of them CAN, they are not equally incapacitated.
Theoretically, I guess there COULD be a real-world scenario where that was the case, but I haven't heard of one. I don't think we are talking about a real thing here.
 
2013-03-19 12:06:08 PM

CeroX: accept according to the LAW, minors are incapable of giving consent... so that person's point, is that LEGALLY speaking, 2 people who are 14 who have sex, are, by LAW incapable of consensual sex, therefore, WHO is the rapist by LEGAL definition?


There is a difference between statutory rape and assault rape.
 
2013-03-19 12:12:33 PM

jso2897: If you're sober enough to get a hardon, you're sober enough to be responsible for what you do with it. If you are sober enough to control and dictate what happens, you are responsible for what happens. The point is that if two individuals are REALLY equally "incapacitated. by definition, neither can do anything to the other. If one of them CAN, they are not equally incapacitated.
Theoretically, I guess there COULD be a real-world scenario where that was the case, but I haven't heard of one. I don't think we are talking about a real thing here.


again, that is your opinion vs. the law as it is written... the law in some places says that a woman who has had any alcohol or judgement impairing drugs within a certain span of time is incapable of consenting to sex, but in the same area the exact opposite is true for men... so your opinion is aligned with the law, but an area may also have a law stating that minors under a certain age, regardless of gender, are incapable of consent, this is the law, not your opinion, it doesn't matter if they were drinking or just horny after school, the law in a lot of places states that 2 people 14 years old, are incapable of consent, period... So 2 kids, 14 years old who sneak off to have sex are breaking the law and because the way the law is written, they are also both victims... The problem comes into that the only time the laws are enforced are when there are obvious variables in play that make determining who is the victim... In this case, it was obvious... when an adult and a minor have sex, it doesn't matter if the minor pleads to the courts that they wanted to fark the adult and would do it again and again if given the chance, the law explicitly states that the minor is incapable of making a decision like that for themselves... but in those cases the victim is easy to ID

What Jorn is arguing and what you are arguing are apples and oranges... they might both be fruit, but that is where the similarities stop, because jorn is arguing law, and you are arguing personal opinion...
 
2013-03-19 12:15:05 PM

jso2897: If you're sober enough to get a hardon, you're sober enough to be responsible for what you do with it. If you are sober enough to control and dictate what happens, you are responsible for what happens.


NO. People are held accountable for their actions even if they are drunk and/or don't have a hard on. If you engage in criminal activity while you are drunk you are still liable for whatever damages you cause.
 
2013-03-19 12:19:09 PM

quickdraw: NO. People are held accountable for their actions even if they are drunk and/or don't have a hard on. If you engage in criminal activity while you are drunk you are still liable for whatever damages you cause.


Hence why convicted drunk drivers can sue the bars that served them.
 
2013-03-19 12:22:11 PM
A couple spineless brats  begging for pats on the head from the rest of the football team, in exchange for being good little girls and throwing the victim under the bus.  There's a term for this shiat:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pleaserwhore
 
2013-03-19 12:22:35 PM

jso2897: Jorn the Younger: jso2897: quickdraw: ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.

A person who is capable of actively DOING something to someone else is, by definition, responsible for their actions. A situation in which both or all parties involved are passed-out drunk or high is a situtation in which nothing is going to happen anyway. If someone possesses the faculties to DO something TO someone else, they possess the faculties to erfrain from doing it.

Actually, no.  In most places, you don't have to be "passed out drunk" to be unable to consent, you only have to be "impaired", to legally be unable to consent.

If you're sober enough to get a hardon, you're sober enough to be responsible for what you do with it. If you are sober enough to control and dictate what happens, you are responsible for what happens.  The point is that if two individuals are REALLY equally "incapacitated. by definition, neither can do anything to the other. If one of them CAN, they are not equally incapacitated.
Theoretically, I guess there COULD be a real-world scenario where that was the case, but I haven't heard of one. I don't think we are talking about a real thing here.


I'm not referring to an actual situation, just the laws of consent, which tend to be such that impairment due to alchohol is not limited to "black-out drunk", and I'm referring to legal consent, not only regarding sexual interactions,

/should have been more clear
//has had a long day week
 
2013-03-19 12:22:59 PM
My daughter was raped by a football player @ 14 . You know what the cops said? But --- But hes a star football player,do you really want to do this?

Farking Canton ,Ohio

Now ya know
They take that shait seriously
 
2013-03-19 12:24:15 PM

GoldSpider: quickdraw: NO. People are held accountable for their actions even if they are drunk and/or don't have a hard on. If you engage in criminal activity while you are drunk you are still liable for whatever damages you cause.

Hence why convicted drunk drivers can sue the bars that served them.


Yes they can sue. But they very rarely win.
 
2013-03-19 12:25:26 PM

Seasons I'v Withered: My daughter was raped by a football player @ 14 . You know what the cops said? But --- But hes a star football player,do you really want to do this?

Farking Canton ,Ohio

Now ya know
They take that shait seriously


so sorry. Hope shes dealing with all this ok. Probably quite the trigger for her.
 
2013-03-19 12:33:37 PM

quickdraw: Seasons I'v Withered: My daughter was raped by a football player @ 14 . You know what the cops said? But --- But hes a star football player,do you really want to do this?

Farking Canton ,Ohio

Now ya know
They take that shait seriously

so sorry. Hope shes dealing with all this ok. Probably quite the trigger for her.


All is well -- I'm glad I pushed this guys name outta my head cause she doesn't need a dad in prison for murder

He'll get his due.
What really gets me is the behind the scenes story of this situation --- We have prosecutors kids from that town that were involved in this whole ordeal ---
Haven't heard much about that

strange  huh?
 
2013-03-19 12:33:58 PM
From reading this thread, I have learned that the only appropriate way to deal with rapists is to castrate/kill them. Our culture is way too violent and way too hypocritical.
 
2013-03-19 12:34:38 PM

PunGent: the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist?


Easy. The FBI says men can't be victims of rape, therefore it's impossible for the woman to be a rapist.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/frequently-asked-questions/ucr_ fa qs
For UCR reporting purposes, can a male be raped?

No. The UCR Program defines forcible rape as "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" (p. 19). In addition, "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury".


You skipped 20)  "By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury"



I didn't skip it, you skipped reading it in my post.
 
2013-03-19 12:39:47 PM

Seasons I'v Withered: My daughter was raped by a football player @ 14 . You know what the cops said? But --- But hes a star football player,do you really want to do this?

Farking Canton ,Ohio

Now ya know
They take that shait seriously


And that's exactly what i was talking about earlier... if the rapist had been a basement dwelling D&D nerd, the police would have raided the house in full SWAT gear and it wouldn't have made national news because no one cares about the skeevy D&D nerd and he doesn't contribute to the reputation or success of the school and by proxy the city, where as Bret McQuaterback the Rapist gets community cover up for his rapes because he's the local celebrity, and everyone knows that when you try and expose a flaw in a greek hero, it's going to make the news and then the shiat storm begins...
 
2013-03-19 12:45:11 PM

CeroX: Seasons I'v Withered: My daughter was raped by a football player @ 14 . You know what the cops said? But --- But hes a star football player,do you really want to do this?

Farking Canton ,Ohio

Now ya know
They take that shait seriously

And that's exactly what i was talking about earlier... if the rapist had been a basement dwelling D&D nerd, the police would have raided the house in full SWAT gear and it wouldn't have made national news because no one cares about the skeevy D&D nerd and he doesn't contribute to the reputation or success of the school and by proxy the city, where as Bret McQuaterback the Rapist gets community cover up for his rapes because he's the local celebrity, and everyone knows that when you try and expose a flaw in a greek hero, it's going to make the news and then the shiat storm begins...


But he's the quarterback.  It can't possibly be rape.  What girl says no to the quarterback?
 
2013-03-19 12:46:44 PM

GAT_00: Benevolent Misanthrope: Snarfangel: You're mad because I used "misanthropic" in a sentence, aren't you.

No, I'm mad because of the double standard of a rape case.  Not at you.

BTW, though - and this is not snark, it's a continuation on your point - do you think things would be different if it were a case of a man being raped?  I thought men were really terrible to male rape victims.

As bad as it still is for women who are victims of rape, it is actually worse if a man gets raped by a woman.  The almost universal reaction is of disbelief.

Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.  Women get harassed for making a claim quite often, and other women discredit real claims by falsely crying rape without any real consequence.

And even with all of that, it's still better than it was 10 years ago.  Pretty sad state all around.


Oh lovely, the "my victimhood is so much worse than yours" b.s. followed by a healthy helping of MRA propaganda b.s.
How about we all just say it probably really sucks for everyone,  and stop trying to compare victimhood wangs. Can we do that?
 
2013-03-19 12:47:19 PM
Ugh! I have read through this entire thread..I think I need some mind bleach. I don't care how drunk you are, and yeah, you should not be getting that farkin drunk...in no way do you deserve to be assaulted. And the fact that they took pics, tweeted etc, just tells me that they were somehow proud of what they did to this girl. And I do not care if she was the biggest slut in the county..you still don't do that.

There is a culture out there that allows a certain lee-way to kids who are talented in their sports. I see it all the time. Where someone would get a rec for expulsion due to excessive tardies/absences..the athlete might get a pass and a warning. Anyone else..better have someone who can intervene for you, who knows your home life is shiat...otherwise you get booted.

There is never an excuse to sexually abuse someone. Period. And for the by-standers..if she had stopped breathing would you have sat there and watched her die?
 
2013-03-19 12:47:58 PM

jso2897: If you're sober enough to get a hardon, you're sober enough to be responsible for what you do with it. If you are sober enough to control and dictate what happens, you are responsible for what happens. The point is that if two individuals are REALLY equally "incapacitated. by definition, neither can do anything to the other. If one of them CAN, they are not equally incapacitated.
Theoretically, I guess there COULD be a real-world scenario where that was the case, but I haven't heard of one. I don't think we are talking about a real thing here.


as Jorn the Younger: said "you don't have to be "passed out drunk" to be unable to consent, you only have to be "impaired", to legally be unable to consent."

From a legal standpoint you could be sober enough to fark but still too drunk to consent.
I also find it disappointing that my attempt at gender-neutral language has still lead to you making it all about the hardon. It is going to make it bloody hard not to sound like one of those 'oh, woe is me, the law hates me because I am a man' sad sacks. But I really did try to make this not just about the penis (yes, I am aware that most rapists are men and most rape victims are women. I am also aware that most men are not rapists).
Also, working with young people, I can safely say that a situation where both participants are too drunk to (legally) consent is a real thing. I do find it interesting that you seem to suggest that the degree of intoxication could be a determining factor and I wonder if that is true in a legal context. Certainly I can see that working as a moral argument, but legal/moral are not always the same thing.
You also talk about who is doing something 'TO' whom. And, again, in that case there is a certain (moral) clarity. I was more curious about a situation where someone was doing something 'WITH' someone else.

I am already hating myself for saying it, but...
The idea that If you're sober enough to get a hardon, you're sober enough to be responsible for what you do with it. seems a somewhat curious one from a physiological standpoint. I would certainly suggest that is it is possible to sustain an erection long after the point where one would not be held legally responsible for a contract signed whilst drunk. One could sustain a sexual performance long after the point where driving would be both illegal and irresponsible.

Now (to cleanse my soul somewhat from that moment of sounding like an apologist) I need to point out that being too drunk to make a rational decision does not (and should not) absolve someone of the consequences of deciding to drive home from the pub. Not too long ago "I was drunk" was a defence if you caused a car accident. As a society though, we decided that was not good enough, likewise being drunk is no excuse for unwanted sexual acts. Never, not even a little bit.
 
2013-03-19 12:48:36 PM
Can anyone clarify what exactly happened during "the act"?  All the news reports I've read throw the word "rape" around like candy at a parade, and then don't actually talk about what legally constituted the rape.  The NYT summary indicates one of the boys played with her titties and stuck his finger in her hooha.  Did one of them actually use their penis and penetrate her butthole or hooha?

And I'm going to pose a question, or discussion instigation, which will completely piss off a bunch of people and probably have me labeled a rape apologist or some other BS.  But here's the moral conundrum I'm posing, based on what I know about the actual act, and some assumptions to make it more arguable:

Apparently the girl was completely unconscious and unaware of what was going on and she didn't have any recollection of the act.
Assume the guy(s) penetrated her with his dong in her butthole/hooha, but not excessively or forcibly, perhaps gently, in such a way that resulted in no physical damage to the girl.
This results in a situation where, after the act, the girl is completely emotionally/mentally and physically unaffected and unharmed by the act. If you didn't tell her it happened, she'd have no clue it ever happened.  Her future life would be unaffected by the act.  We're talking just the act here and the effect of the act, not the effect of the social media blowup and trial, etc.
In such a situation (given the above assumptions) is the act morally wrong?  Has the girl been wronged?  Should the guy(s) be penalized?  How significantly?

Is the above situation any morally different than: drawing a penis on your passed out friend's forehead?  shaving your friend's head hair off while they're passed out drunk?  clipping your friend's toenails while they're passed out drunk?

If you ignore moral preconceptions, is it any different than the above scenarios?
 
2013-03-19 12:55:07 PM
My daughter was raped by a football player @ 14 . You know what the cops said? But --- But hes a star football player,do you really want to do this?

Farking Canton ,Ohio

Now ya know
They take that shait seriously


My daughter was raped by Barack Obama when she was 11.
The cops just laughed and then beat us nearly to death. This is America

True story!!!
 
2013-03-19 12:55:44 PM

Bontesla: liam76: Bontesla: How would you classify Paterno's crimes

He was informed of an "incident" by McQueery.  The police were called.

We don't knwo the severity of the incident (McQueery has changed his story about what he told him).

Legally Paterno did what was required.

Morally, especially for a guy who is touted as a "Hero" for doing the right thing, and making sure his role as an educator was #1, he failed miserably, but he never broke any laws.

A great lawyer is a damned good investment

//you're right. an unlikely scenario isn't sufficient to establish the necessary criteria for guilt in the court of law. But Goddammitsomuch.
/// but I can't believe people actually buy that story.


Why believe th guy who changed his story?

jso2897: And you can still find people who think the NCAA was "too harsh" in punishing that "community".


NCAA completely overstepped their bounds.

They took actions that directly punished students that had abaoslutly nothing to do with what happened.
 
2013-03-19 01:00:54 PM

jso2897: Actually, no. In most places, you don't have to be "passed out drunk" to be unable to consent, you only have to be "impaired", to legally be unable to consent.

If you're sober enough to get a hardon, you're sober enough to be responsible for what you do with it.


Consider lesbian rape.
 
2013-03-19 01:04:10 PM

thisone: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

I'm female, I have a friend who has been raped. My ex was accused of rape by a woman who, as we found out, had a history of "crying rape" or sexual assault whenever she was fired from a job.

farked up, entitled people do exist and instead of just getting thrown out of court she should have been thrown in jail. I've no doubt she's just gone on to do it again.

My ex just wanted the whole thing over with, he was so broken from having to go through it.


Oh well then, your cool-story-sis vignette here proves every strawman argument about crying rape that there ever was, eh?
 
2013-03-19 01:06:28 PM

CeroX: ... the law in some places says that a woman who has had any alcohol or judgement impairing drugs within a certain span of time is incapable of consenting to sex, but in the same area the exact opposite is true for men...


I am loving the way you combine seemingly sane statements like the important thing being law, not personal opinions with the wahhhgarble bullshiat (personal opinion) I quoted above.

What is the exact opposite of this? If a sober woman forces herself on a drunk man the law says that is ok?
The EXACT opposite might be "a man who has had any alcohol or judgement impairing drugs within a certain span of time must consent to sex" (OK, I know I'm being a pedant there).

Sober person A has sex with drunk person B. Person A has committed a rape (or sexual assault, depending on the legal terminology of your jurisdiction). The genders of persons A and B are irrelevant to the law. To quote you yourself "Just come out and admit that you are incapable of having a rational objective conversation about rape and politely excuse yourself from the conversation"
 
2013-03-19 01:10:20 PM

precious_crotchflake: Oh lovely, the "my victimhood is so much worse than yours" b.s. followed by a healthy helping of MRA propaganda b.s.
How about we all just say it probably really sucks for everyone,  and stop trying to compare victimhood wangs. Can we do that?



When a woman presses charges against a man for rape, the man usually goes to jail.

When a man presses charges against a woman for rape, the police will usually threaten the man with filing a false police report.

Nobody is arguing that the action itself is worse for men (I'd argue that it's worse for women), but men are practically unable to press charges in the first place.
 
2013-03-19 01:12:38 PM
ExperianScaresCthulhu:As for drawing on a drunken person, the drunken person did not consent.  By making exceptions to the rule, one confuses the rules.  Either all shenanigans involving the drunken are off-limits, or none are.  Trying to parse shiat with 'well, this isn't as bad as this' always leads to differences of opinions about what's a Big Deal and what isn't.

Teh fark? Did you just equate a drawn mustache with digital penetration?
 
2013-03-19 01:16:48 PM
Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

I'm female, I have a friend who has been raped. My ex was accused of rape by a woman who, as we found out, had a history of "crying rape" or sexual assault whenever she was fired from a job.

farked up, entitled people do exist and instead of just getting thrown out of court she should have been thrown in jail. I've no doubt she's just gone on to do it again.

My ex just wanted the whole thing over with, he was so broken from having to go through it.

Oh well then, your cool-story-sis vignette here proves every strawman argument about crying rape that there ever was, eh?



Yes! Discard any and all "cool stories" that might go against your rigidly held beliefs culled from others' "cool stories"
 
2013-03-19 01:19:43 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: quickdraw: ExperianScaresCthulhu: lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.

They can try, but they can't hide the number of women who say

Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions.

and

Don't get blackout drunk.

So dont get drunk, rape someone, video tape it and forget you did it later?

Sounds like good advice.

Don't get blackout drunk, period.

Don't get drunk.

Don't willingly place yourself in bad situations for god knows what reason, multiple times.

Don't play with fire when it comes to waking up in strange situations. The first time, you're an idiot but you can learn from it.  The second time, you must actively want it.  The third and fourth and subsequent times, you must be actively seeking out such situations.. again for god knows what reasons.  Probably the same ones which led you to be well known for getting blackout drunk in your little community.

The boys were stupid.

She, however, is NOT to be let off the hook.

Again, this is a chick who had morning after regrets because she couldn't pull the 'deny deny deny' card herself.  There was proof she ended up with the short end of the stick when she went looking for the trouble she ended up finding.

If there is no investigation of this chick's home life and if she is not put into drug and alcohol rehab, some other dude -- maybe even a silly ass white knight currently saying she's blameless -- is going to end up on the short end of a future stick in relation to her.

/but i forogt: women are eternally blameless


hmmm, I had you farkied as "not an asshole" for some reason, which makes me think you're either trolling now or I need to update the label.  I'll leave you at "Ass or troll?" with a light orange for now.
 
2013-03-19 01:21:45 PM

doubled99: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

I'm female, I have a friend who has been raped. My ex was accused of rape by a woman who, as we found out, had a history of "crying rape" or sexual assault whenever she was fired from a job.

farked up, entitled people do exist and instead of just getting thrown out of court she should have been thrown in jail. I've no doubt she's just gone on to do it again.

My ex just wanted the whole thing over with, he was so broken from having to go through it.

Oh well then, your cool-story-sis vignette here proves every strawman argument about crying rape that there ever was, eh?


Yes! Discard any and all "cool stories" that might go against your rigidly held beliefs culled from others' "cool stories"


Yeah, cuz that's way worse than thinking your one experience should hold as a general assumption.
 
2013-03-19 01:21:55 PM

nickerj1: Can anyone clarify what exactly happened during "the act"?  All the news reports I've read throw the word "rape" around like candy at a parade, and then don't actually talk about what legally constituted the rape.  The NYT summary indicates one of the boys played with her titties and stuck his finger in her hooha.  Did one of them actually use their penis and penetrate her butthole or hooha?

And I'm going to pose a question, or discussion instigation, which will completely piss off a bunch of people and probably have me labeled a rape apologist or some other BS.  But here's the moral conundrum I'm posing, based on what I know about the actual act, and some assumptions to make it more arguable:

Apparently the girl was completely unconscious and unaware of what was going on and she didn't have any recollection of the act.
Assume the guy(s) penetrated her with his dong in her butthole/hooha, but not excessively or forcibly, perhaps gently, in such a way that resulted in no physical damage to the girl.
This results in a situation where, after the act, the girl is completely emotionally/mentally and physically unaffected and unharmed by the act. If you didn't tell her it happened, she'd have no clue it ever happened.  Her future life would be unaffected by the act.  We're talking just the act here and the effect of the act, not the effect of the social media blowup and trial, etc.
In such a situation (given the above assumptions) is the act morally wrong?  Has the girl been wronged?  Should the guy(s) be penalized?  How significantly?

Is the above situation any morally different than: drawing a penis on your passed out friend's forehead?  shaving your friend's head hair off while they're passed out drunk?  clipping your friend's toenails while they're passed out drunk?

If you ignore moral preconceptions, is it any different than the above scenarios?


It seems from reading this thread that plenty of US jurisdictions define rape in such a way that there must be penetration. Lets leave that to the courts to decide, but I am delusional enough to hope that we can all agree that Sexual Assault is wrong?
Can't we?
Now, lets look at the difference between sexual assault and shaving someone's head.
So far as I know, there are no significant diseases one can catch from getting an unwanted haircut. So, there is one moral difference.
Also, if we allow football stars to go around groping unconscious girls because they won't remember, what do we do when one girl wasn't quite drunk enough and remembers some of the abuse? I suspect there is also a moral aspect in giving people the incentive to get the person they want to see naked drunk enough that they won't remember. Would you not agree?
A potential risk that the number of deaths by alcohol poisoning might spike quite significantly in communities where this was acceptable behaviour.
As for her future life being unaffected by the act. That is manifestly untrue, despite her lack of awareness there are many other people who ARE aware of what happened and these events will impact on the treatment she receives from others in her community. Plus, as she is unaware of the events she will be powerless to influence the opinions of others about the events. Unable to defend herself, unable to let people know she did not consent and that she is not the person they are imagining she is.

As for your question of should the perpetrators be punished, Let me quote

Jizz Master Zero: It's really very simple: the object of your desire doesn't have to say no, they have to say yes.

If there is no yes from the one you lust after then you deserve the full force of the law.

/but I hope you knew that already and are just a massive douche-like troll.
 
2013-03-19 01:23:49 PM

the ha ha guy: precious_crotchflake: Oh lovely, the "my victimhood is so much worse than yours" b.s. followed by a healthy helping of MRA propaganda b.s.
How about we all just say it probably really sucks for everyone,  and stop trying to compare victimhood wangs. Can we do that?


When a woman presses charges against a man for rape, the man usually goes to jail.

When a man presses charges against a woman for rape, the police will usually threaten the man with filing a false police report.

Nobody is arguing that the action itself is worse for men (I'd argue that it's worse for women), but men are practically unable to press charges in the first place.


Actually, GAT_00 really DID argue that it's worse for men.  Quoted verbatim.
 
2013-03-19 01:24:51 PM

cardex: not defending the guys


Yes, you are.

It's pretty hard to "consent" or "say no" or do much of anything blameworthy when you're farking unconscious.

So, have you heard that one of these fine student-athletes offered three dollars to any of his teammates who would piss on the girl while she was vomiting in the street?  And that more than a few got their three dollars?

Not that you would "defend" such people, heaven forbid.
 
2013-03-19 01:26:08 PM

nickerj1: If you ignore moral preconceptions, is it any different than the above scenarios?


absolutely... because there are levels of intent... they are all violations of personal space, but rape is, at its core, one of the deepest violations of a person's body...

apples and oranges... they are both fruit, but that's where the similarities end...

Drawing a penis in sharpie on a persons face and raping a person are both violations of a person's body, but that is where the similarities end...

It's really kind of a silly question because i don't believe any woman wouldn't know if she's been violated unless there is some serious shiat going on, drugs or whatever...
 
2013-03-19 01:30:43 PM

ADHD Librarian: What is the exact opposite of this? If a sober woman forces herself on a drunk man the law says that is ok?


I'm not saying this is true for all areas... but as stated above: By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape

That's the law for some areas, not my opinion... if it's forced or coerced it's rape... Not exactly being overly emotional here, so i don't understand the sudden hate... I agree with you, so if i worded something badly feel free to correct it...
 
2013-03-19 01:34:16 PM

justinguarini4ever: From reading this thread, I have learned that the only appropriate way to deal with rapists is to castrate/kill them. Our culture is way too violent and way too hypocritical.


Recidivism rates do drop sharply when that is applied.
 
2013-03-19 01:36:06 PM

vudukungfu: justinguarini4ever: From reading this thread, I have learned that the only appropriate way to deal with rapists is to castrate/kill them. Our culture is way too violent and way too hypocritical.

Recidivism rates do drop sharply when that is applied.


But rape is about power, not sex.  So even if you cut their junk off, they still gonna rape you with a cucumber, ya know, for the powerz.
 
2013-03-19 01:43:20 PM

the ha ha guy: When a woman presses charges against a man for rape, the man usually goes to jail.

When a man presses charges against a woman for rape, the police will usually threaten the man with filing a false police report.


Your 'facts' are manifestly untrue. The conviction rate where the victim is male is higher than when the victim is female. Now, there are all sorts of reasons why this may be the case and it is possible to play all sorts of games with statistics, but the word 'usually' is certainly wrong.
It seems though, that in both cases there is a less than 50% conviction rate (not less than 50% reported, less than 50% of those which go to trial. Experiences in your nation may vary, the clearest data I found from a quick search was British).
 
2013-03-19 01:43:51 PM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: Yes, that's a threat with a lot of anger towards the victim, but it doesn't blame her for getting raped.


You're right: It just blames her for what other people did in response to her being raped.

So much better.
 
2013-03-19 01:49:46 PM

jso2897: If you're sober enough to get a hardon


Google "nocturnal penile tumescence".
 
2013-03-19 01:51:12 PM

precious_crotchflake: Actually, GAT_00 really DID argue that it's worse for men.  Quoted verbatim.


The context was clear that he was referring to the reaction to the crime, not the crime itself.

GAT_00: As bad as it still is for women who are victims of rape, it is actually worse if a man gets raped by a woman.  The almost universal reaction is of disbelief.

Both genders have it bad, but only one is eligible for support after the fact.

When a female rape victim is threatened when trying to press charges, it makes national news. When a male rape victim is threatened when trying to press charges, the reaction is "why would you want to ruin the life of that sweet innocent girl" (actual quote from a "support" hotline after the police refused to help).
 
2013-03-19 01:51:32 PM

stonicus: But rape is about power, not sex.  So even if you cut their junk off, they still gonna rape you with a cucumber, ya know, for the powerz


I'm not an advocate of castration.
I'm an advocate of the death (and swiftly) penalty.
There is not a shortage of very bad people on this planet.
And, thanks to Ohio, there is no shortage of assholes, either.
 
2013-03-19 01:53:32 PM

ADHD Librarian: Your 'facts' are manifestly untrue. The conviction rate where the victim is male is higher than when the victim is female.



The conviction rate only measures those who make it into court. But when the police make threats against the victim for daring to go against the status quo, the case never makes into court in the first place.
 
2013-03-19 01:55:41 PM

CeroX: ADHD Librarian: What is the exact opposite of this? If a sober woman forces herself on a drunk man the law says that is ok?

I'm not saying this is true for all areas... but as stated above: By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape

That's the law for some areas, not my opinion... if it's forced or coerced it's rape... Not exactly being overly emotional here, so i don't understand the sudden hate... I agree with you, so if i worded something badly feel free to correct it...


Nice attempt at 'reasonable'
The thing you are 'wording badly' is a constant implication that if a sexual assault by a woman is not rape it is not prosecuted. You are playing with semantics and in doing so you are being fundamentally disingenuous in your arguments. Perhaps in some (even many?) jurisdictions a rape must include penetration, but that doesn't mean that a sexual assault without penetration results in a nice police officer saying "you are in the clear, go back home, nothing to see here." But your wording certainly had a tone of "oh the poor men, society is so hard on them" in it.
 
2013-03-19 02:01:05 PM

ADHD Librarian: Perhaps in some (even many?) jurisdictions a rape must include penetration, but that doesn't mean that a sexual assault without penetration results in a nice police officer saying "you are in the clear, go back home, nothing to see here."



Really? Tell that to the three officers who literally laughed in my face when I tried to press charges.
 
2013-03-19 02:12:23 PM

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: Your 'facts' are manifestly untrue. The conviction rate where the victim is male is higher than when the victim is female.


The conviction rate only measures those who make it into court. But when the police make threats against the victim for daring to go against the status quo, the case never makes into court in the first place.


So, where are you getting your statistics from?
How many men make no complaints because they are scared off by the police and is that a greater percentage than the percentage of women who face the same "no one will believe you" "court will be so hard" "are you sure you want to go through with it" routine?

Oh and for the love of spaghetti monster, what does this have to do with the girl in TFA? Is she not entitled to her day in court until you feel that enough men have had their say? Are the girls who are tweeting threats only doing so because of the injustice of the unreported male victims of assault?
A society which has the wherewithal to stand up against rape is one in which rape will occur less (or so I hope) and this has to be the hope of all victims, regardless of their gender, right?
So, if the 'voiceless men of the world' are your concern, express your concern by shouting down any people, any laws and any Farkers who are apologists for rapist. When a woman has her day in court don't moan that a man didn't but say loudly "good, I'm glad that rapist got his comeuppance" and see if you can help create a society where no one would stand around and watch something like this happen. It shouldn't take too much work, because most people seem to be able to hold a party and have a drink without raping anyone and it can't be much of a stretch to go from not raping anyone to being willing to stop any rapes you see.

/still remember my embarrassment as a young boy when my father leapt out of the car to stop a rape, only to discover it was perfectly consensual roadside sex.
//consensual, if not legal. But my father wasn't the morality police so we left them to it.
///my point was I come from a background of non-rape even though my father was not a sensitive modern guy
 
2013-03-19 02:13:03 PM

nickerj1: Can anyone clarify what exactly happened during "the act"?  All the news reports I've read throw the word "rape" around like candy at a parade, and then don't actually talk about what legally constituted the rape.  The NYT summary indicates one of the boys played with her titties and stuck his finger in her hooha.  Did one of them actually use their penis and penetrate her butthole or hooha?

And I'm going to pose a question, or discussion instigation, which will completely piss off a bunch of people and probably have me labeled a rape apologist or some other BS.  But here's the moral conundrum I'm posing, based on what I know about the actual act, and some assumptions to make it more arguable:

Apparently the girl was completely unconscious and unaware of what was going on and she didn't have any recollection of the act.
Assume the guy(s) penetrated her with his dong in her butthole/hooha, but not excessively or forcibly, perhaps gently, in such a way that resulted in no physical damage to the girl.
This results in a situation where, after the act, the girl is completely emotionally/mentally and physically unaffected and unharmed by the act. If you didn't tell her it happened, she'd have no clue it ever happened.  Her future life would be unaffected by the act.  We're talking just the act here and the effect of the act, not the effect of the social media blowup and trial, etc.
In such a situation (given the above assumptions) is the act morally wrong?  Has the girl been wronged?  Should the guy(s) be penalized?  How significantly?

Is the above situation any morally different than: drawing a penis on your passed out friend's forehead?  shaving your friend's head hair off while they're passed out drunk?  clipping your friend's toenails while they're passed out drunk?

If you ignore moral preconceptions, is it any different than the above scenarios?


Link
 
2013-03-19 02:15:38 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: /but i forogt: women are eternally blameless the unconscious cannot give consent, or put another way

, unconsciousness is not a license to rape.

Fixed that for you, ya sociopath.
 
2013-03-19 02:24:27 PM

Deucednuisance: cardex: not defending the guys

Yes, you are.

It's pretty hard to "consent" or "say no" or do much of anything blameworthy when you're farking unconscious.

So, have you heard that one of these fine student-athletes offered three dollars to any of his teammates who would piss on the girl while she was vomiting in the street?  And that more than a few got their three dollars?

Not that you would "defend" such people, heaven forbid.


Just to be clear
Rape = bad
Bus girl in India who was gang raped = 0 at fault
Football players = farktards at all times
Football players who are drunk = posable sexual assault 90% of the time
Girl that goes to party with drunk football players is asking for something bad to happen and she got it
 
2013-03-19 02:27:31 PM

ADHD Librarian: Is she not entitled to her day in court until you feel that enough men have had their say?



My argument is against the social, legal, and political standards that allow the police to deny rape in the first place. When the police refuse to press charges against a man, it's bad. When they refuse to press charges against a woman, it's equally bad. But in the eyes of most of society, one of these is completely acceptable, even celebrated to an extent.
 
2013-03-19 02:28:34 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Peekachicka: I really "adore" how many people say things like "don't drink stoopid" or "why did her parents let her go out" when horrible situations like this come up. As if they never snuck out of their bedroom window, lied that they were going to a movie with a friend only to meet someone else, or had their first experience with (insert type of alcohol that they're never touching again here). When someone else is in a terrible situation all of a sudden they become saints.

Except that just like not everyone started having sex at the age of 12, not everyone became a blackout drunk by 14.  Like in that recent story of the kids who died in the car crash, who were accused of stealing the car they drowned in (except for the kid who was pinned under it in the pond after the car hit the barrier) -- not everyone experiments with grand theft by the age of 15.

For her, if she doesn't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT DRINK.  She needs to deal with her alcoholism, and whatever is driving her to engage in enough well known sexual escapades to be considered one of the school's doorknobs.


You're right, not everyone started having sex at the age of 12, blacking out at 14, or stealing cars at 15. Not everyone starts raping unconscious girls at 16 either. Instead of trying to defend your idea that she deserved what came to her and she deserves even more punishment why not try saying this a couple times, out loud:

"For the boys, if they don't want this to happen again, the advice is indeed: DONT RAPE! They need to deal with their alcoholism, and whatever made them believe that they could do such things to a girl just because they had the opportunity to."

Just because people put themselves in certain situations doesnt mean they should be taken advantage of. No one should be shot just because they wear the color blue, no one should be kidnapped because they were walking home from school alone, and no one should be raped just because they had too much to drink.
 
2013-03-19 02:30:19 PM

the ha ha guy: ADHD Librarian: Perhaps in some (even many?) jurisdictions a rape must include penetration, but that doesn't mean that a sexual assault without penetration results in a nice police officer saying "you are in the clear, go back home, nothing to see here."


Really? Tell that to the three officers who literally laughed in my face when I tried to press charges.


First of all, shiatty thing to happen and for that you have my condolences.
But that doesn't give you licence to ignore the facts or to shiat all over a thread about a serious sexual assault with spurious claims that women are usually listened to and men are usually ignored.
No, you were ignored (and, it would seem shouldn't have been) and the girl from Steubenville was listened to (and it would seem she should have been). But as so many people have pointed out, plenty of women are ignored (given the gender ratio of victims, probably more women are ignored than men) doesn't make it right but isn't the take home message 'listen when someone says they were raped' rather than making it somehow about gender?
 
2013-03-19 02:30:25 PM

ADHD Librarian: So, if the 'voiceless men of the world' are your concern, express your concern by shouting down any people, any laws and any Farkers who are apologists for rapist. When a woman has her day in court don't moan that a man didn't but say loudly "good, I'm glad that rapist got his comeuppance" and see if you can help create a society where no one would stand around and watch something like this happen. It shouldn't take too much work, because most people seem to be able to hold a party and have a drink without raping anyone and it can't be much of a stretch to go from not raping anyone to being willing to stop any rapes you see.


Much easier said than done...

On a different note... It's just anecdotal, but I've yet to meet a woman in my life who says she hasn't been a victim of sexual assault at some point in her life.  Not one.
 
2013-03-19 02:38:58 PM
The appropriate punishment for that inbred, dickweed town would be for the other high schools in their league to refuse to play any sports against them.  Sure, the Stuebenville school would win by default, but it would be an empty, meaningless win.  It would deny them their only reason for existence.
 
2013-03-19 02:40:14 PM

Peekachicka: Just because people put themselves in certain situations doesnt mean they should be taken advantage of. No one should be shot just because they wear the color blue, no one should be kidnapped because they were walking home from school alone,

and no one should be raped just because they had too much to drink.

And no one should be sold a house with an adjustable mortgage that will balloon out of control just because they don't understand complex finance law.  The line we draw on where our obligation to protect our fellow man vs. enact our own interests is so arbitrary.

How soon before lying to a girl invalidates her giving of consent and turns the act into rape?  Meet a girl, hit it off, several dates later, she gives consent because she thinks you're a fine catch and she wants to pursue a relationship with you.  After the deed, she finds out your married.  Did you violate her ability to give consent?  How are lies different from alcohol when it comes to that person's ability to process consent?
 
2013-03-19 02:43:36 PM

ADHD Librarian: But as so many people have pointed out, plenty of women are ignored (given the gender ratio of victims, probably more women are ignored than men) doesn't make it right but isn't the take home message 'listen when someone says they were raped' rather than making it somehow about gender?



It wouldn't be about gender at all if people would stop making it a farking joke. But across nearly all facets of society, including female rape victims, female-on-male rape is practically celebrated. So without acknowledging the gender discrepancy, how is that ever going to change?
 
2013-03-19 02:55:53 PM

stonicus: How soon before lying to a girl invalidates her giving of consent and turns the act into rape


That's already in place bubba... California has it listed as The defendant induced the victim to engage in sexual intercourse by making a fraudulent representation.
 
2013-03-19 03:01:02 PM

quickdraw: LovingTeacher: I just listened to a call in news show (on NPR of all places) where a man called in and said he "hoped he wouldn't have done something like that if the opportnity presented itself when he was younger but, well, boys will be boys". I'm sorry but from 18-22 I lived in a crazy party house where someone was as wasted as that girl at least once or twice a week and nothing like that ever happened nor would it have been allowed to happen. Too many people are excusing the behavior and blaming the victim. I just don't see how you can be so lacking in empathy that you not only let something like this happen but make the victim the butt of jokes. I know it is not something new and has happened probably for as long as humans have gathered in tribes but I just don't get it.

I like you. Welcome to TF.


Thank you very much. I am also a little concerned by the people on this thread who are equating ANY screwing with the passed out person (drawing on them with markers, posing them suggestively with the cat) with rape (looking at you ExperianScaresCthulhu ) sexual assault is just not OK on any person no matter what.
 
2013-03-19 03:18:14 PM
Teenagers do stupid things and when they are around other teens, the level of stupid cannot be measured.  I have seen my own teen do things as part of a group that he knows full well are wrong (just like his parents did at his age). The BIG difference is he knows he did something dumb and is sorry.

These sociopaths didn't just humilate and rape another teen, they posted it - and the pics/videos were still there the next day.  No remorse.  No guilt.  I don't care how drunk they were.... some things you just know are wrong no matter how drunk you are.
 
2013-03-19 03:24:55 PM

OgreMagi: The appropriate punishment for that inbred, dickweed town would be for the other high schools in their league to refuse to play any sports against them.  Sure, the Stuebenville school would win by default, but it would be an empty, meaningless win.  It would deny them their only reason for existence.


If only the other towns around would. Except you have to remember. It's Ohio.
It's full of Football first assholes.
 
2013-03-19 03:39:12 PM

quickdraw: [sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 610x610]
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net


Oh, if only that "we all" part were true... But, it's obvious from these sort of threads that it's not...
 
2013-03-19 04:02:19 PM

Popular Opinion: raised on mtv, simpsons and family guy.

giggity

role models? bill clinton, kobe bryant....


Thanks, 1995!  Now share your idiot opinion of Ice Cube and Color Me Badd.
 
2013-03-19 04:20:28 PM

stonicus: ADHD Librarian: So, if the 'voiceless men of the world' are your concern, express your concern by shouting down any people, any laws and any Farkers who are apologists for rapist. When a woman has her day in court don't moan that a man didn't but say loudly "good, I'm glad that rapist got his comeuppance" and see if you can help create a society where no one would stand around and watch something like this happen. It shouldn't take too much work, because most people seem to be able to hold a party and have a drink without raping anyone and it can't be much of a stretch to go from not raping anyone to being willing to stop any rapes you see.

Much easier said than done...

On a different note... It's just anecdotal, but I've yet to meet a woman in my life who says she hasn't been a victim of sexual assault at some point in her life.  Not one.


Bullshiat.  You are surrounding yourself with attention whores.  Regret does not equal rape.  Also, more men are raped in the US per year then women.  Know your facts.
 
2013-03-19 04:21:18 PM

GregoryD: You want to blame something? How about now every kid at the age of 10 sees every kind of rape, murder, suicide, dead body, beheading, sexual act on the internet? By 12 they've seen every kind of depravity known to man and suddenly you are surprised that they are desensitized to fingerbanging a drunk girl?


Ahh yes.  Nothing like defending football by trying to incite a moral panic.  Good jorb.
 
2013-03-19 04:22:47 PM
The real victim of Stuebenville is
 
2013-03-19 04:30:54 PM

stoli n coke: FunkOut: puffy999: Athletics trumps all when it comes to young society.

The ability to understand advanced mathematics or chemistry is nothing compared to running, jumping, catching,rolling over, and fetching.


You might want to understand a little more biology, there, Professor. Athletic ability is an indicator of strengh, which is attractive in the hunter/gatherer sense. Just like the root of attraction to large breasts and nice hips is indicative of a woman who can have and take care of children more easily.

It's been part of our DNA since the caveman days. Back then, the guys who whined about not getting chicks because they understood advanced math usually froze to death.


I have a magnificent brain and an amazing bust-waist-hip ratio. I am ready to start a fertility cult.

You might want to understand comedic statements a little bit better.
 
2013-03-19 04:39:23 PM

23FPB23: In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
Subdivisions --
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out


What are you invoking my gods for? That song is about disaffection, is that your point?
 
2013-03-19 04:43:08 PM

stonicus: ADHD Librarian: So, if the 'voiceless men of the world' are your concern, express your concern by shouting down any people, any laws and any Farkers who are apologists for rapist. When a woman has her day in court don't moan that a man didn't but say loudly "good, I'm glad that rapist got his comeuppance" and see if you can help create a society where no one would stand around and watch something like this happen. It shouldn't take too much work, because most people seem to be able to hold a party and have a drink without raping anyone and it can't be much of a stretch to go from not raping anyone to being willing to stop any rapes you see.

Much easier said than done...


What's much easier said than done? Having a drink at a party and not raping someone? What in the world are you saying?

On a different note... It's just anecdotal, but I've yet to meet a woman in my life who says she hasn't been a victim of sexual assault at some point in her life.  Not one.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking "anecdotal" means "something I made up in a half-ass attempt to give credibility to my already miserably weak position". Or perhaps you really intend us to believe that you have in fact obtained confirmation from single woman you have ever met in your life that she has been a victim of sexual assault.
 
2013-03-19 05:01:04 PM
Here's what's sad: I'm not even surprised by this. The only really unique thing about this (in terms of terrible things that get tons of publicity) is that the brain donors wrote this shiat down (essentially) rather than trying to hide their identities. But I'm fairly certain that rape victims have always been threatened (either explicitly or implicitly) since the very first rape in human history.

Because people are assholes.

The victim in Steubenville is fortunate in that there was photographic evidence of the dummies who assaulted her. When there's a picture of two football players carrying your limp body around, that's a little too much for even our justice system to ignore.

I'm honestly surprised anybody was even charged. I assumed the DA would pass on pressing charges and call it a day.
 
2013-03-19 05:29:16 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

That first part isn't true.  All she has to do is claim that she felt forced or afraid and that's why she said yes and spread her legs and suddenly the whole basketball team is marked as rapists.

The dudes were big dummies because you're supposed to record sexual acts to prove that someone was willing, if they try to accuse you after the fact:  The Tupac rule.  And then i remember some of these kids weren't even conceived when Tupac was murdered.  But you record sexual acts to cover your ass.  If you can't cover your ass, don't do it.

As for the school doorknob, well, hopefully this is a wakeup call for her. What's the betting odds on whether she continues to engage in risky sexual behavior versus cleans her act up?


I know I haven't been around here for a long time, but this is one of the scariest posts I've seen on here yet.

What happened to make you hate women so much? Sounds like someone really did a number on you. That's sad.

"You record sexual acts to cover your ass." Not familiar with this, but then again, I and most people around me don't typically have to worry about getting accused of rape, which it sounds like might be a problem for you. Do the people you record usually know about it, or is that just another crime you're willing to commit just to make sure that no one accuses you of rape? Which you seem unusually worried about?
 
2013-03-19 05:32:42 PM
Over the years in college and work Ive had several beautiful coworkers passed out in my bed or around me. Not once did I think to rape them EVER! The worst was the one time a coworker and I were both drugged and I managed to get us to my place. Now my biggest worry is my hotmess of a roomate that gets blacked out drunk and hangs around idiots like this. I know she was raped when she was younger and when we have gone out Ive had to step in a few times when "boys were being boys". It is sickening at times.
 
2013-03-19 05:41:47 PM

CeroX: ADHD Librarian: What is the exact opposite of this? If a sober woman forces herself on a drunk man the law says that is ok?

I'm not saying this is true for all areas... but as stated above: By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape

That's the law for some areas, not my opinion... if it's forced or coerced it's rape... Not exactly being overly emotional here, so i don't understand the sudden hate... I agree with you, so if i worded something badly feel free to correct it...


And as I stated above, that was not the legal definition of the criminal offence of rape, it was the definition used in compiling crime statistics. And it was changed in 2012. Depending on the definition of rape in the criminal code of the jurisdiction in question, a sober woman having intercourse with a drunk man could be charged with rape, and even if the jurisdiction's definition of rape excludes that possibility, she could be charged with sexual assault (which, depending on the degree, is not necessarily a less serious crime.)
 
2013-03-19 06:09:28 PM
Where am I on the rape apologist/complete dickbag scale?

I think that a person can do shiatty things as a teen and still have the capability to morph into a passable human being as an adult. I grew up in a small non football centric hometown. My sex life became that of local gossip after I lost my virginity. One guy and I held the status of "school doorknob" due to circumstances (while incredibly farked up) out of my control. Shiat home life and I partied a lot. Enough to know that you had to pass out before me or I might get raped. It didn't matter who you were, friend or not, you still knew everyone thought I was a whore, including the police. Hell, I was raped by a friend and honestly, it is not something I hold against him to this day (as a matter of fact, it was presented in a court of law as evidence of my inability to control myself). It's just part and parcel to the incredibly farked up mindset we grew up in. I don't have to be a victim, I am an example of the shiat society spews. I wish him well to this day and know that in his mind it came from a place nobody would really understand. I made it out alive and I have goodness in my life. At that time though, I trained myself to out drink anyone, to a point where my ability to hold my liquor was something other women trotted me out to do as a party trick in my 20's. My drinking targeted me as the one who'd go down, but due to training at a young age, I never lost - I took the target off every other woman's back - a real or imagined target, I do not know.

Having said all that, it is true I did stupid and regretful things as a teen. I am appreciative that given a new environment and new friends, new support, I could become the person I am today. Do these guys have this chance? They really may not have realized just how wrong this was. It is disgusting, but it is true. What incentive do they have to change themselves, to be a semi-decent person as the person who raped me did? He did, too. I've kept track. He may not be admirable, but he's not a monster. They have literally been tried in the court of public opinion. They do not deserve a chance to change who they are to this girl. They do not deserve the chance to change who they are to those close to her. Do they not deserve the chance to change who they are to the world, given that they see the world as a place where something like this can happen - regardless of whether or not it is true? The world is so small when we're 16.

I believe, wholeheartedly, that raping a drunk person is by and large is forbidden in our general society. I believe this because of the number of times I went to bed in the middle of a party. The number of times I needed sleep because I had to work in the morning. All of those times, I woke up covered by a blanket with no penises on my face. These are times that taught me the world is not full of evil people I have to bite before they strike first.

What would be the point in anyone in this story changing? They are already labelled as rapists or rape apologists. I think that bothers me about this case. I think what is more important is the community they grew up in goes on trial. How dare they raise children that believe that a drunken, passed out person deserves to be sexually assaulted? How dare they threaten to send those demented kids out into the world as adults? How dare they send them to our colleges? How farking dare they see this as something that happens in everyday American society?
 
2013-03-19 06:23:33 PM
 
2013-03-19 06:29:13 PM

OgreMagi: cardex: Benevolent Misanthrope:
When a woman is raped, she is generally the one on trial, and has to prove she didn't ask for it.  Which pisses me off on alot of levels, because - even if she did consent, this implies that a woman doesn't have the right to say, "Stop."

Sick, but that's the way it is.  It's the prevailing tactic for rape defense, and was absolutely openly used in this case.


She has every right to say no up to the point it's over, not 2 weeks later then decide it was rape not defending the guys but in this place they are only 33% to blame the girl is 17% and her parents are 50% for not teaching her not to get shiat face drunk and farking every guy in town

Oh, look.  Another moron defending the rapists.  No, she is 0% responsible for getting rape.  When you pass out drunk with supposed friends, you get sharpie moustache picture posted on facebook that you laugh about the next day.  You don't get dragged unconscious from party to party, half naked, and sexually abused.

The blame is on the rapists, their parents for not teaching them right from wrong, and the community for creating and encouraging this kind of behavior.


She might not be 0%, might be a couple percents based on bad judgment, but she already paid for it far, far beyond any reasonable expectation of punishment for getting blackout drunk, and she's continuing to pay for it with the daily hatred and death threats from her peers. Whether you think a rape might be as bad as 100 or 1000 days in prison, plus more for the humiliation and persistent intimidation, she got far more than the night or two in jail that underage drinking is typically punished with.

The net result is that she's not only effectively blameless, they're deeply in her debt, and I hope they rot.

It helps to remove some of the emotion by analyzing a situation like this, otherwise you end up with "STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM" and "SLUT DESERVED IT" back and forth you see so often everywhere. You can assign a small portion of blame to a victim while also saying that they did not deserve anywhere near that level of consequences.

Likewise, parents deserve a small portion of the blame, but even for them the horror of having their child raped vastly outweighs any punishment they may have deserved.
 
2013-03-19 07:07:20 PM

superdude72: WTF is up with kids posting this shiat from their Twitter accounts. Is it *that hard* to use email? Or for something that truly needs to remain private, a note tied to a brick and thrown through a window?


Personally, I hope the people who would do this NEVER learn to threaten anyone anonymously. Like the rapists, had it not been for their own stupidity using the social media and smartphones to record what they did, they might never have been caught and punished. I would love to live in a world where an assault like this would have never taken place, but I know that's never going to happen.  Sooooo....if people in this world are determined to hurt one another, I hope the ones that do, will make mistakes like this each and every time so that it will make finding them all the easier.
 
2013-03-19 07:30:20 PM
The hell is wrong with that place? Is there something in the water? Is there some secret government brainwashing program going on that makes everyone that live there a blithering idiot, and a disgrace to the human race? I cannot understand those two retarded failures of humanity getting any sympathy at all. I don't wish ill will on people, but I couldn't care less if they get raped while locked up. You reap what you sow. I am really hoping there is a lot of poorly worded miscommunication going around, and any sympathy is the fact they made a huge mistake that will follow them the rest of their lives. Even then it would be sympathy for their potential, but people evil enough to rape drunk girls really don't have a lot of potential to begin with. So I'm at a loss all around.
 
2013-03-19 08:12:30 PM

ADHD Librarian: Oh, wait, you did you giant steaming moran. But, in fact some shenanigans involving the drunken are in fact illegal and at this point in time drawing Harry Potter glasses and a lightning bolt scar on someone is in the 'legal' column while 'sexual assault' is not.


In the UK the drawing would certainly count as common assault.
 
2013-03-19 08:14:09 PM

quickdraw: A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.


Tell that to George Zimmermann's lawyers.
 
2013-03-19 08:59:34 PM

deanis: Mock26: robohobo: By all accounts from kids i her school, this girl was a train depot at parties.

So what?  If she is conscious and says "Yes" to the entire basketball team then that is her decision.  If she is passed out and does not give consent then it is no longer her decision.  At that point it is rape.

This guy is way too interested in the underage rape victim. He is now labeled pedo guy


I hope you are not talking about me, because I am not interested in this underage rape victim.  I am just saying that the rape was not somehow justified because she might have been promiscuous.
 
2013-03-19 10:46:58 PM

James F. Campbell: Generation_D: Sh*theel local politics and good-ol-boy bullcrap in a famously football-centric town were winning out until international lights were shone, which is where Anonymous came in.

That's a bit surprising to me, given how much Anonymous favors rape.


I think their outrage over classic small-town corruption and slack-jawed yokelism overrode their normal operating procedures.

I'm waiting for Anonymous to finish exposing the skeletons of the coach, sheriff and anyone else involved in the coverup. They posted a video demanding they all admit to their role in covering up the rape and apologizing to the girl, then started releasing hacked emails when they didn't. The sheriff, still new to this whole internet thing, tried to claim he would come after and arrest Anonymous. Naturally, Anonymous responded with a collective middle finger. It just keeps getting better.
 
2013-03-20 10:19:20 AM

deanis: ExperianScaresCthulhu: deanis: SundaesChild: GregoryD: I played high school football. I never raped anyone.

In fact, I gained no additional respect/favors/dates from anyone playing football even though I was one of the best players on the team. I started every varsity game for three years and I was the team captain my senior year. I didn't even go to my proms.

Just because this town has some farked up problems, don't somehow bunch every school/town/football program together. That is just stupid.

.......I just don't agree with where you're going with it.  Again, they farked up.

Is there any actual proof there was anything in her system beyond enough alcohol to make a Russian pass out?  Or is that just on the same level as 'possibly penetrating her anally'?

/To Young Men:  Young Women are not your equals, so don't treat them the same way you'd treat other young men

This explains a lot.


Two young men have a disagreement, punches are thrown -- what happens afterwards?

A man and a woman have a disagreement, punches are thrown -- what happens afterwards?

Exactly.  The advice for men not to treat women like they treat other men was given here in other threads recently, and after reading the explanation, I whole-heartedly endorse it.   A man treating a woman as if she were a man is a recipe for trouble............. and the cold hard truth is that the majority of women DONT want to be treated exactly as men treat other men.  They just want to be taken seriously, which is different.
 
2013-03-20 10:22:53 AM

quickdraw: [sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 610x610]


That's so ful of shiat.  Anonymous goes around 'raping' people by displaying their private information, then imposing themselves into their private lives via phone calls to their residences and places of employment, mail campaigns and hacking.

But it's alright, as long as dick doesn't enter pussy (or ass) right?  Just like the folks here who feel that all violations are not created equal, only penetrative sex is something to get worked up over and if you've been stolen from or if your reputation has been damaged, you just need to suck it up.

Old gender roles and gender taboos die hard.  If those who insist that the only true violation is penetrative sex, well.......
 
2013-03-20 10:27:57 AM

CeroX: quickdraw: ADHD Librarian:

/As an interesting aside though (and I asked this question myself during a recent training session on counselling teenagers on matters of sexuality, but no one could (or would?) answer it clearly. Too many lawyers in the room for anyone to offer a free opinion).
In a situation where someone is impaired by alcohol (yay, teenage party), they are unable to (by law in most jurisdictions) consent to a sexual encounter. If both participants are impaired, how does a legal system decide which one is the rapist? Or, could it be (like with teenage self portraits) that one person can be both the victim AND the perpetrator of the crime?

A rape is not a sexual encounter. If you understand it as just another form of physical assault then it's pretty straightforward. The perpetrator is solely at fault and cannot be a victim.

accept according to the LAW, minors are incapable of giving consent... so that person's point, is that LEGALLY speaking, 2 people who are 14 who have sex, are, by LAW incapable of consensual sex, therefore, WHO is the rapist by LEGAL definition?

This isn't your opinion, OR the opinion of the general populace... we ALL know that if someone forces or coerces themselves on a person who didn't consent to sex that it's rape... but there are soft issues, such as 2 people who the law says are incapable of making a consensual sexual decisions... so who's "at fault"? The law simply turns a blind eye to those situations or it criminalizes the males because males are defaulted as the aggressor where women are concerned...

So put aside YOUR opinion and look at the law as it is written

Seriously, i hope you are never on jury, you can't seem to look at the law objectively, and certainly incapable of looking at rape objectively, and more than willing to sling mud at those of us who look at rape from a legal standpoint and therefore look at the cases objectively... Just come out and admit that you are incapable of having a rational objective c ...



The man is always at fault.
That also includes when the 'man' is 12 and the 'woman' is 24.
 
2013-03-20 10:27:59 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Anonymous goes around 'raping' people by displaying their private information,


Uh, no?

They go around invading privacy, which can be really bad.  That has nothing to do with rape.

That's like saying I'm committing arson if I steal your car, because both of those are bad.
 
2013-03-20 10:29:45 AM

precious_crotchflake: thisone: Dafatone: GAT_00: Add this to the fact that some women have been shown to simply cry rape if they regretted a decision to sleep with someone because it would ruin a relationship, or simply cry it for attention, and there are still severe problems all around.

Someday we'll have a thread on this subject where "cry rape" doesn't get brought up.

Someday.

I'm female, I have a friend who has been raped. My ex was accused of rape by a woman who, as we found out, had a history of "crying rape" or sexual assault whenever she was fired from a job.

farked up, entitled people do exist and instead of just getting thrown out of court she should have been thrown in jail. I've no doubt she's just gone on to do it again.

My ex just wanted the whole thing over with, he was so broken from having to go through it.

Oh well then, your cool-story-sis vignette here proves every strawman argument about crying rape that there ever was, eh?


As a woman, her story of what happened is not unusual.
Some women use sex to get what they want.
The cry of rape is the other side of that coin.
 
2013-03-20 12:34:33 PM

lacydog: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

This has to be the saddest tumblr I have ever found. Humanity blows.


This honestly makes me want to go home and beat my children before the turn into teenagera, and they're too young to even fathom what the Internet is.
 
2013-03-20 01:00:04 PM

TopoGigo: It happens. Nobody knows how often it happens, but it definitely happens. While the words "cry rape" are pretty insensitive, the fact remains that it is hard to prove that any particular woman was "date raped". (God, how I hate that term.)
So, WTF can we do about it? We can't assume that any accuser is automatically telling the truth. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically lying. We can't assume that any accuser is automatically exaggerating. We can't read their f*cking minds. Polygraphs are inadmissible in court, for what I can only assume are good reasons. The only thing I know to do is to tell girls to fight. At least if there are physical injuries, there is evidence. Punch, claw, scratch, kick, bite. And accept that you might get your face irreparably smashed in, or your life abruptly ended. WTF, that doesn't work, either.


Fighting might not always be the best idea.  Fighting back might cause the rapist to get more enraged and apply enough force to strangle, crush or suffocate the victim.
I reiterate, this rule does not apply to all cases, but I can understand that the victim might be too afraid instinctually to try to fight back, especially if there is an extreme mismatch of power.  If those instincts kick in, it is probably better to not fight back.
Maybe the victim might be more concerned about surviving than she or he would about not looking guilty.

The fighting back scenario also rules out rape while being in a compromising situation: drunk, asleep, high, comatose, etc.  I know there are people who say "Well she shouldn't have been drinking" but other people have no right to molest the compromised person when drunk.
 
2013-03-20 04:50:39 PM
"But but but ALPHA MALES!!  Wharble garble garble!!!"
 
2013-03-20 05:24:47 PM

PunGent: CeroX: Zarquon's Flat Tire: bumper crop

what's a bumper crop? I'm not familiar with agricultural terms... by the sound of it, something that is grown at the ends of a field that is different than the rest of the field?

Not sure where the term comes from, but a 'bumper' crop is an exceptionally high yield.

Usually a good thing, but not if you're growing rape...


or buying Frozen Concentrated OJ futures in expectation of a shortage.
 
2013-03-20 09:02:10 PM
I cant help but think it comes down to jealousy.
 
2013-03-21 12:24:18 AM

Frederick: I cant help but think it comes down to jealousy.


Sadly, there are a few women so small minded that they could actually believe a women would purposely get herself raped for the attention.  Hell, I bet there's a bunch of men who believe that, too.
 
2013-03-21 03:49:07 AM

quickdraw: CeroX: accept according to the LAW, minors are incapable of giving consent... so that person's point, is that LEGALLY speaking, 2 people who are 14 who have sex, are, by LAW incapable of consensual sex, therefore, WHO is the rapist by LEGAL definition?

There is a difference between statutory rape and assault rape.


Isn't that the distinction Whoopi took so much flack over?
 
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