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(Slate)   Apparently Americans actually like repressing minorities, destroying the social safety net, imprisoning doctors and pregnant women, and stealing your money to give it to the wealthy. We just don't like the people who are doing it   (slate.com) divider line 50
    More: Dumbass, safety nets, Patty Murray, Senate Budget Committee, Ari Fleischer, minorities, House Budget Committee  
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2965 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Mar 2013 at 6:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 04:47:20 PM
all that subby and TFA states "budget ideas" right there in the headline.
 
2013-03-18 04:52:24 PM
I'd like to take that poll, lemme at it.
 
2013-03-18 05:43:16 PM
It might have something to do with the GOP having lost all credibility with some empirical-minded people.
 
2013-03-18 05:50:22 PM
I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.
 
2013-03-18 05:51:35 PM
Another poll stripped of partisan labels, including a plan that's actually left of center:

Surprisingly, the plan that polled the strongest was the House Progressive Caucus plan. More than half of respondents supported it compared to sequestration and just a fifth of respondents were opposed.

Shockingly, 47 percent of Republicans preferred the House Progressive plan to the sequester.

Link
 
2013-03-18 05:55:16 PM

DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.


Yes.  Reminds me of polls on Obamacare.  Point by point, the provisions are very popular, but ask a general question about "Obamacare" and support drops.
 
2013-03-18 06:02:56 PM
The Hill asked voters to choose between two different approaches on the budget

Ugh.

-Prefer budget plan 1 with $1 Trillion in Tax Hikes & 100 Billion in cuts that does not balance budget or Plan 2 that does not raise taxes, cuts $5 trillion and balances budget?

Prefer unicorn meat of beef?
Now onto the important stuff

-Budget constraints were recently cited as thereason for cancelling tours of the WhiteHouse. Should those tours be resumed?

Conducted by Pulse Opinion Research (a spinoff of Rasmussen)
 
2013-03-18 06:05:27 PM

tallguywithglasseson: The Hill asked voters to choose between two different approaches on the budget

Ugh.

-Prefer budget plan 1 with $1 Trillion in Tax Hikes & 100 Billion in cuts that does not balance budget or Plan 2 that does not raise taxes, cuts $5 trillion and balances budget?

Prefer unicorn meat of beef?
Now onto the important stuff

-Budget constraints were recently cited as thereason for cancelling tours of the WhiteHouse. Should those tours be resumed?

Conducted by Pulse Opinion Research (a spinoff of Rasmussen)


I had a feeling there was something unskewed about that poll
 
2013-03-18 06:15:18 PM
Americans have always like Generic Republican.  It's the ones who actually run for things that horrify them.
 
2013-03-18 06:30:35 PM
Let me sum up this..."poll." *ahem*

Do you prefer:
A) BEING ANALLY RAPED BY OBAMA IN FRONT OF YOUR CHILDREN,
or
B) Sinking your freedom-loving 12" schlong into the finest supermodel p*ssy known to man.
 
2013-03-18 06:31:17 PM
Only 28 percent of voters supported an option that sounded an awful lot nothing like what Senate Budget Committee chairwoman Patty Murray put forward last week.

Fixed that for them. The plan in the poll had $1T in "tax increases" and $100 billion in spending cuts. Her plan was 50/50 split ($975 billion for each) between spending cuts and revenue increases (by closing corporate and individual tax loopholes) with $100 billion in stimulus spending via infrastructure and job training.

But that's fine. Misleading articles about misleading polls are almost like journalism.
 
2013-03-18 06:33:24 PM

Lionel Mandrake: DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.

Yes.  Reminds me of polls on Obamacare.  Point by point, the provisions are very popular, but ask a general question about "Obamacare" and support drops.


Exactly. Add on the fact that a large portion of people identify as "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" and the fact that all the stupid anti-gay, racist, etc. crap gets pushed around by the Republicans that gets people to say "meh, both sides kinda suck at handling the budget anyway, so might as well side with the people that aren't evil" and go Democrat. Which is exactly what happened with me.
 
2013-03-18 06:34:08 PM

tallguywithglasseson: -Budget constraints were recently cited as thereason for cancelling tours of the WhiteHouse. Should those tours be resumed?

Conducted by Pulse Opinion Research (a spinoff of Rasmussen)


I'm so sick of this bullshiat topic. WHO CARES?

thinkprogress.org

Goddamn liberal media.
 
2013-03-18 06:38:59 PM

DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.


This, and they weren't given the progressives proposed budget. That seems to disappear right after it is submitted.
 
2013-03-18 06:39:16 PM
And when the poll questions are not horribly misleading and designed to elicit a particular response, liberal and left-wing ideas are all overwhelmingly popular... When not attached to party names. Huh.
 
2013-03-18 06:40:09 PM
Misrepresentation!?! I guess the baby-killers have to do something with the rest of their time.
 
2013-03-18 06:41:05 PM

Car_Ramrod: Misleading articles about misleading polls are almost like journalism.


Actually, they're exactly like journalism these days...which is probably the biggest problem we're facing.
 
2013-03-18 06:49:35 PM
This is the only "safety net" our poors need:

i651.photobucket.com

Because

i651.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-18 06:53:12 PM
A total of 55 percent of voters supported a plan that would slash spending without additional tax revenue, similar to the plan presented by House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan.

Are they actually told where these cuts will be taken from?

I have found people are all for "government cuts" but then when you actually list what is being cut they become very against them.
 
2013-03-18 06:53:34 PM

Car_Ramrod: tallguywithglasseson: -Budget constraints were recently cited as thereason for cancelling tours of the WhiteHouse. Should those tours be resumed?

Conducted by Pulse Opinion Research (a spinoff of Rasmussen)

I'm so sick of this bullshiat topic. WHO CARES?

[thinkprogress.org image 501x636]

Goddamn liberal media.


I wonder how many of those mentions on MSNBC were making fun of Fox for complaining about it.
 
2013-03-18 06:55:46 PM

Kimothy: DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.

This, and they weren't given the progressives proposed budget. That seems to disappear right after it is submitted.


Here's some great graphs to show how incredbily far to the right the political 'center' has become:

media.tumblr.com

media.tumblr.com

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-03-18 07:04:05 PM

DamnYankees: Kimothy: DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.

This, and they weren't given the progressives proposed budget. That seems to disappear right after it is submitted.

Here's some great graphs to show how incredbily far to the right the political 'center' has become:

[media.tumblr.com image 500x310]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x309]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x309]


Uh... I agree with the CPC budget wholeheartedly and everything, but the second and third graphs seem really weirdly calibrated.
 
2013-03-18 07:10:32 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: DamnYankees: Kimothy: DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.

This, and they weren't given the progressives proposed budget. That seems to disappear right after it is submitted.

Here's some great graphs to show how incredbily far to the right the political 'center' has become:

[media.tumblr.com image 500x310]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x309]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x309]

Uh... I agree with the CPC budget wholeheartedly and everything, but the second and third graphs seem really weirdly calibrated.


How are they weirdly calibrated? All graphs have the same thing - Ryan on the left, CPC on the right, and Senate Dems floating between.
 
2013-03-18 07:11:55 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-18 07:12:25 PM

DamnYankees: A Dark Evil Omen: DamnYankees: Kimothy: DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.

This, and they weren't given the progressives proposed budget. That seems to disappear right after it is submitted.

Here's some great graphs to show how incredbily far to the right the political 'center' has become:

[media.tumblr.com image 500x310]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x309]

[media.tumblr.com image 500x309]

Uh... I agree with the CPC budget wholeheartedly and everything, but the second and third graphs seem really weirdly calibrated.

How are they weirdly calibrated? All graphs have the same thing - Ryan on the left, CPC on the right, and Senate Dems floating between.


No, I get that, I just don't get the scale. I guess the middle tick is where (polling? guesswork?) has put mainstream opinion on what it should be? Or it's the average of all the plans or it's just there to make the bars look nice or... something?
 
2013-03-18 07:14:08 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: No, I get that, I just don't get the scale. I guess the middle tick is where (polling? guesswork?) has put mainstream opinion on what it should be? Or it's the average of all the plans or it's just there to make the bars look nice or... something?


The middle tick is just the arithmetic mean between the CPC and the Ryan Plan for each category.
 
2013-03-18 07:17:15 PM

DamnYankees: A Dark Evil Omen: No, I get that, I just don't get the scale. I guess the middle tick is where (polling? guesswork?) has put mainstream opinion on what it should be? Or it's the average of all the plans or it's just there to make the bars look nice or... something?

The middle tick is just the arithmetic mean between the CPC and the Ryan Plan for each category.


Gotcha.
 
2013-03-18 07:22:04 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Conducted by Pulse Opinion Research (a spinoff of Rasmussen)


True, but it's even more messed up than that. Pulse Opinion Research is a survey allows anybody to conduct a poll and pose the questions whichever way they want for pocket change (like a couple hundred bucks, if I remember right). And the question in the survey is very poorly phrased, and the method Pulse uses (automated phone calls) has been shown numerous times to lean heavily conservative (thank you, Nate Silver).

That's not to say blind surveys of political ideas isn't a useful tool. But this isn't a very accurate way to do it.
 
2013-03-18 07:23:26 PM
On the state level, absolutely. Wacky conservatism is the bees knees in the redder, crazier states.
 
2013-03-18 07:27:37 PM
Along with the other reasons this poll is bullshiat listed above, I'd point out this:

Survey Demographics:

Age:
18-39 28%
40-64 53%
65+ 19%

Actual breakdowns according to 2010 census:

18-39 39.2%
40-64 43.6%
65+ 17.2%

Also, on the crosstabs listing the opinion breakdown by income level (page 7), under the $200k+ column appear the percentages 43, 45, and 47, giving a resolution of 2% or finer, implying that at least roughly 50 people (5%) in their 1000 person survey reported earning over $200k a year, which is roughly double the actual number.
 
2013-03-18 07:37:41 PM
The headline is worthy of a fascist propagandist. Basically, anyone who wants to cut the budget must be someone who fantasizes about taking food from the mouths of starving babies.

I really pity the Dem operatives of college age who post in these threads. You're getting farked up the arse by the Democratic party and you are blissfully unaware of where all this borrowing to fund entitlements is heading.

You should at least ask to be wined and dined by Obama first.
 
2013-03-18 07:46:44 PM
Many Americans also believe that a much larger portion of the federal budget goes to PBS, foreign aid, and abortions on demand to welfare queens than it actually does.
 
2013-03-18 07:47:04 PM

Animatronik: The headline is worthy of a fascist propagandist. Basically, anyone who wants to cut the budget must be someone who fantasizes about taking food from the mouths of starving babies.

I really pity the Dem operatives of college age who post in these threads. You're getting farked up the arse by the Democratic party and you are blissfully unaware of where all this borrowing to fund entitlements is heading.

You should at least ask to be wined and dined by Obama first.


At least Democrats propose actually increasing revenue. Republicans DECREASE revenue, then borrow and spend FAR more than Democrats. Compare Saint Ronnie and the Shrub (a great band name) in particular, to Clinton (ended his term with a surplus, or at least the closest to one we've had) and Obama (deficit growth dropping at the fastest rate since post-WWII, even before the sequester).

Any Republican who claims to be fiscally responsible deserves to be laughed out of the room. Or punched in the genitalia.
 
2013-03-18 08:17:41 PM

Animatronik: Basically, anyone who wants to cut the budget must be someone who fantasizes about taking food from the mouths of starving babies.


So have there been any republican proposals to cut the budget that *don't* primarily hurt the poor, or are you just talking out of your ass?
 
2013-03-18 08:18:56 PM

Animatronik: The headline is worthy of a fascist propagandist. Basically, anyone who wants to cut the budget must be someone who fantasizes about taking food from the mouths of starving babies.

I really pity the Dem operatives of college age who post in these threads. You're getting farked up the arse by the Democratic party and you are blissfully unaware of where all this borrowing to fund entitlements is heading.

You should at least ask to be wined and dined by Obama first.


This is more creative than your post from earlier this morning.  It manages to state talking points while including new imagery rather than relying on overdone metaphors.  I suppose I will give this A.
 
2013-03-18 08:28:15 PM
While some people may be more inclined to prefer the Republican ideas regarding the budget, most of them are very well aware of how connected those ideas are to ideas about oppressing minorities, hating women, hating sex, imprisoning physicians, wanting to war every country that is predominantly non-white, and so on. You can't have one without the other, as they say. And, frankly, I care more about social issues like equal rights for all citizens than I do about the economic situation. Still important, absolutely, but still of less importance to me than allowing women to have control over their own bodies and for adults to marry the consenting adult that they are in love with.
 
2013-03-18 08:53:12 PM
This just in ... people hate paying for stuff.

Truth.
 
2013-03-18 09:42:31 PM

Car_Ramrod: tallguywithglasseson: -Budget constraints were recently cited as thereason for cancelling tours of the WhiteHouse. Should those tours be resumed?

Conducted by Pulse Opinion Research (a spinoff of Rasmussen)

I'm so sick of this bullshiat topic. WHO CARES?

[thinkprogress.org image 501x636]

Goddamn liberal media.


SNAP (food stamps) was exempt from the sequester,so said the WaPo
 
2013-03-18 10:15:38 PM
Oh yes.... a poll where you just say "Do you support fixing the budget by raising taxes or cutting spending"?

Oh yeah, everyone loves "Cutting spending"... until you get specific on that, and then they go "Hey wait, not there, I like that program!".
 
2013-03-18 11:20:05 PM

Corvus: A total of 55 percent of voters supported a plan that would slash spending without additional tax revenue, similar to the plan presented by House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan.

Are they actually told where these cuts will be taken from?

I have found people are all for "government cuts" but then when you actually list what is being cut they become very against them.


A lot of Americans (read: Republicans) are under the false impression that a huge proportion of government revenue goes to foreign aid, so when they hear "cut government spending," that's the first thing that comes to mind.  When you tell them that you'd have to cut Social Security, Medicare and/or defense to really get anything worthwhile, they back the hell off the "gub'mint spending" rhetoric.
 
2013-03-18 11:54:13 PM
Maybe if the poor, elderly, single moms, and teachers weren't such a bunch of abusive assholes, people would be more generous.
 
2013-03-19 12:27:38 AM

dletter: Oh yes.... a poll where you just say "Do you support fixing the budget by raising taxes or cutting spending"?

Oh yeah, everyone loves "Cutting spending"... until you get specific on that, and then they go "Hey wait, not there, I like that program!".


And it's funny these polls seem never to have an option: What if we could fix the budget by slightly raising taxes and somewhat cutting spending? It always has to be either/or. Or alternatively: Which PROGRAM (never all programs plural) should we cut? So people can cut their least-favorite and keep in their most-favorite.
 
2013-03-19 02:08:17 AM
We're, y'know... morons.
 
2013-03-19 03:58:20 AM

DamnYankees: Kimothy: DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.

This, and they weren't given the progressives proposed budget. That seems to disappear right after it is submitted.

Here's some great graphs to show how incredbily far to the right the political 'center' has become:


Man, that's just depressing.
 
2013-03-19 04:02:30 AM
How difficult do you think it would be to write a web app that would allow a user to adjust sliders based on real budget and tax numbers, to see how they would/could fix the deficit? The tricky part would be to assign GDP values to spending and taxes, I suppose, but it seems to me that the CBO's metrics would be public.
 
2013-03-19 06:44:03 AM

ThunderPelvis: Let me sum up this..."poll." *ahem*

Do you prefer:
A) BEING ANALLY RAPED BY OBAMA IN FRONT OF YOUR CHILDREN,
or
B) Sinking your freedom-loving 12" schlong into the finest supermodel p*ssy known to man.


Well, I don't have children, and there's more you don't know about me.
 
2013-03-19 10:19:51 AM

DamnYankees: I'm not sure this poll says what articles about say it says. It's always been known that Americans like to slash spending in the abstract, but they don't in the specific. This just seems like more of that.


This.

Americans have been conditioned to believe that "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" is the wise and sober favored by people who aren't "partisan hacks," mainly because it's the emptiest non-answer anyone who doesn't really pay attention to what's going on can throw out there to sound like they pay attention, but without raising anyone's ire such that they have to defend an actual position.

It might have actually meant something in the days of Eisenhower, but there's nothing at all "fiscally conservative" about today's Republicans. They're borrow and spend plutocrats who are destroying the middle class and dismantling the American government and selling it off piecemeal in order to put the proceeds into the pockets of their wealthy benefactors.

"Austerity" is just a bullshiat excuse to slash programs that benefit the working and middle classes in order to free up more money to give to the Koch brothers.
 
m00
2013-03-19 12:19:05 PM

The Name: A lot of Americans (read: Republicans) are under the false impression that a huge proportion of government revenue goes to foreign aid, so when they hear "cut government spending," that's the first thing that comes to mind.  When you tell them that you'd have to cut Social Security, Medicare and/or defense to really get anything worthwhile, they back the hell off the "gub'mint spending" rhetoric.


I think the current debate is largely devious and disingenuous. As an exercise on another thread, I took the medicare/health services portion of the budget and divided it by the population. Did the same with welfare and social security.

The problem is this: we are spending so much per-person that if we got our money's worth, we should have the world's greatest state-run healthcare and the world's greatest social safety net. Whether or not you believe we should have these things is immaterial; because we're already paying for it. So when Democrats say "we have to increase spending" they're wrong -- what we're already spending is going in a black hole of bureaucracy and (I suspect) corporate/lobbyist handouts. But when Republicans say we must cut spending they're also wrong, because cutting spending isn't automatically tied to improving efficiency and people really do depend on these services.

What we really need to do is demand that we get our money's worth. Once that occurs, then we can have a realistic appraisal of how much money we actually need to spend.
 
2013-03-19 12:38:18 PM
We have a big problem in this country of not having a clue what taxes actually pay for. Everyone is all for cuts but no one seems to grasp that not everyone is going to want to cut the same things.
 
2013-03-19 01:19:45 PM

m00: The Name: A lot of Americans (read: Republicans) are under the false impression that a huge proportion of government revenue goes to foreign aid, so when they hear "cut government spending," that's the first thing that comes to mind.  When you tell them that you'd have to cut Social Security, Medicare and/or defense to really get anything worthwhile, they back the hell off the "gub'mint spending" rhetoric.

I think the current debate is largely devious and disingenuous. As an exercise on another thread, I took the medicare/health services portion of the budget and divided it by the population. Did the same with welfare and social security.

The problem is this: we are spending so much per-person that if we got our money's worth, we should have the world's greatest state-run healthcare and the world's greatest social safety net. Whether or not you believe we should have these things is immaterial; because we're already paying for it. So when Democrats say "we have to increase spending" they're wrong -- what we're already spending is going in a black hole of bureaucracy and (I suspect) corporate/lobbyist handouts. But when Republicans say we must cut spending they're also wrong, because cutting spending isn't automatically tied to improving efficiency and people really do depend on these services.

What we really need to do is demand that we get our money's worth. Once that occurs, then we can have a realistic appraisal of how much money we actually need to spend.


What I don't get is why this is a surprise to so many Americans. Capitalism is predicated on maximum possible profit. That means corporations want to provide the least possible return in goods and services the consumer will accept for the highest possible price the consumer will pay - because that maximizes the profit margin.

Your entire society is geared along those lines. Not just actual business, but also the government that supports business and is paid off by business through lobbyists and campaign donations and SuperPACs and so on. So why is it surprising that you find that you're not getting your money's worth for just about anything? Paying too much for too little just means more profits for those running the system, which is ultimately all they care about.
 
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