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(Washington Times)   Sen. Elizabeth Warren doesn't actually want to raise minimum wage to $22 per hour, but we're going to put that in the headline anyway   (washingtontimes.com) divider line 100
    More: Dumbass, minimum wages, D-Mass  
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2569 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Mar 2013 at 6:18 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 05:38:29 PM  
I am currently studying journalism.  If I handed in a headline as inaccurate as that, any of my professors would laugh in my face and tell me to never show up again

I have a feeling it's the opposite when dealing with editors
 
2013-03-18 05:40:43 PM  
Here's a video of the exchange. It gave me the vapors.

Also, the comments on that article are f'n unhinged.
 
2013-03-18 05:42:17 PM  
It's the Washington Times, subby. They publish fiction, fictionalized propaganda, and propaganda. The best solution is to pretend they don't exist at all; failing that, use them purely as a way to laugh at stupid people without feeling guilty.
 
2013-03-18 05:43:34 PM  
Can't hurt to get the idea out there.
 
2013-03-18 06:16:47 PM  
"What is a strawman fallcy?" Alex.
 
2013-03-18 06:17:32 PM  

Klippoklondike: I am currently studying journalism.  If I handed in a headline as inaccurate as that, any of my professors would laugh in my face and tell me to never show up again

I have a feeling it's the opposite when dealing with editors


Or just the Mooney Times.
 
2013-03-18 06:20:45 PM  
Smiling down on his creation:

static5.businessinsider.com
 
2013-03-18 06:23:32 PM  
How about $16.59/hr, like Australia?
 
2013-03-18 06:25:14 PM  
Is there something wrong with the idea of a $22 minimum wage?
 
2013-03-18 06:27:15 PM  
What a waste of the name Dr. Doob.
 
2013-03-18 06:27:34 PM  

JerseyTim: Also, the comments on that article are f'n unhinged.


FTFC:
Chiswald A_Proud_Infidel • 5 hours ago −
The Washington Times never underestimates the stupidity, the shear gullability, of its extreme radical right wing readers. That's how they get away lying with bogus headlines like "Elizabeth Warren wants to raise minimum wage to $22 an hour." People with critical thinking skills go on to read the article and discover it isn't true. Easily duped conservatives have a field day launching insults over lying headline.

Response:
Ted Paine Chiswald • 4 hours ago −
time for you to go, I hear your Mom calling you....


What a comeback.
 
2013-03-18 06:28:14 PM  
You should hear them howl when the topic of paid sick time is brought up.
 
2013-03-18 06:31:20 PM  

impaler: JerseyTim: Also, the comments on that article are f'n unhinged.

FTFC:
Chiswald A_Proud_Infidel • 5 hours ago −
The Washington Times never underestimates the stupidity, the shear gullability, of its extreme radical right wing readers. That's how they get away lying with bogus headlines like "Elizabeth Warren wants to raise minimum wage to $22 an hour." People with critical thinking skills go on to read the article and discover it isn't true. Easily duped conservatives have a field day launching insults over lying headline.

Response:
Ted Paine Chiswald • 4 hours ago −
time for you to go, I hear your Mom calling you....

What a comeback.


Doesn't even make sense, either.  I'd like to think he's trolling but that's pretty incompetent trolling.
 
2013-03-18 06:31:56 PM  

GoldSpider: Is there something wrong with the idea of a $22 minimum wage?


The poors might get ideas about being equal and all that.

//Can't find that image of the tiered tower with workers holding up the rest, with plutocrats at the top, and I think religion and police right below that.
 
2013-03-18 06:35:50 PM  
Why not $22? And impose price freezes on everything so we don't have to raise it again. That should fix it.
 
2013-03-18 06:40:35 PM  

meat0918: GoldSpider: Is there something wrong with the idea of a $22 minimum wage?

The poors might get ideas about being equal and all that.

//Can't find that image of the tiered tower with workers holding up the rest, with plutocrats at the top, and I think religion and police right below that.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-18 06:40:59 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: How about $16.59/hr, like Australia?


But then there'd be no point in tipping a lot of workers, and Fark wouldn't be the same without a tipping thread...
 
2013-03-18 06:42:42 PM  
My wife for unknown reasons, believed a guy going door to door selling subscription to the Washington Times that he was earning money for college.  Anyhoo, I know have a 9 week subscription, I looked at the first few, its just all commentary and barely edited at that.  Major stories in MD, not covered.

I just throw them right into the recycling now.

/and he said the subscription would not automatically renew and it did, what a dick
 
2013-03-18 06:45:37 PM  

Paris1127: tipping thread


I'll get us started
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-18 06:47:04 PM  

JerseyTim: Here's a video of the exchange. It gave me the vapors.

Also, the comments on that article are f'n unhinged.


Bunch of illiterate morons. You figured out that she DIDN'T actually say that in the 1st paragraph, and got confirmation by the second.
 
2013-03-18 06:50:46 PM  
anticap.files.wordpress.com

Gee- I wonder where all the profit from that increased productivity went? Of course, we can't demand that some of it actually go to the workers. No Siree bob!
 
2013-03-18 06:52:24 PM  
"During my Senate campaign, I [frequently] ate a Number 11 at McDonald's."

Ugh. You sick biatch.
 
2013-03-18 06:53:04 PM  

Dinki: [anticap.files.wordpress.com image 614x404]

Gee- I wonder where all the profit from that increased productivity went? Of course, we can't demand that some of it actually go to the workers. No Siree bob!


If workers get paid living wages then how are CEO's supposed to make more money in 10 minutes than they make in a year? HOW??!?!?!
 
2013-03-18 06:54:41 PM  
Those comments are proof that nobody reads beyond the headline
 
2013-03-18 06:55:49 PM  
Corporations make profits. Who gets those profits? Shareholders. Who are shareholders? Public sector pensions. Why is Elizabeth Warren trying to kill off public sector workers' pensions?
 
2013-03-18 06:57:33 PM  

jigger: Corporations make profits. Who gets those profits? Shareholders. Who are shareholders? Public sector pensions. Why is Elizabeth Warren trying to kill off public sector workers' pensions?


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-18 06:59:20 PM  

Gilligann: Those comments are proof that nobody reads beyond the headline


Hey, it probably took them their entire lunch break to read the headline.  Not everyone can sit on their asses all day to read the article like liberals.
 
2013-03-18 07:00:18 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: jigger: Corporations make profits. Who gets those profits? Shareholders. Who are shareholders? Public sector pensions. Why is Elizabeth Warren trying to kill off public sector workers' pensions?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 360x360]


Is that the minimum wage in your communist utopia?
 
2013-03-18 07:08:07 PM  

maudibjr: My wife for unknown reasons, believed a guy going door to door selling subscription to the Washington Times that he was earning money for college.  Anyhoo, I know have a 9 week subscription, I looked at the first few, its just all commentary and barely edited at that.  Major stories in MD, not covered.

I just throw them right into the recycling now.

/and he said the subscription would not automatically renew and it did, what a dick


This is why they have auto-renew. Cause they know people like you, will not take the 3 to 5 mins to cancel the subscription.
 
2013-03-18 07:08:15 PM  

jigger: A Dark Evil Omen: jigger: Corporations make profits. Who gets those profits? Shareholders. Who are shareholders? Public sector pensions. Why is Elizabeth Warren trying to kill off public sector workers' pensions?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 360x360]

Is that the minimum wage in your communist utopia?


Hurr.
 
2013-03-18 07:19:22 PM  
The minimum wage hasn't been adjusted for inflation in what, 20 years? $22 dollars and hour sounds about right.

Deal with it.
 
2013-03-18 07:28:22 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: Dinki: [anticap.files.wordpress.com image 614x404]

Gee- I wonder where all the profit from that increased productivity went? Of course, we can't demand that some of it actually go to the workers. No Siree bob!

If workers get paid living wages then how are CEO's supposed to make more money in 10 minutes than they make in a year? HOW??!?!?!


Amazingly, they'd probably make more money in 5 minutes than I make in a year, due to all that extra consumption that would be possible inflating corporate profits even more.
 
2013-03-18 07:33:38 PM  

meat0918: Doktor_Zhivago: Dinki: [anticap.files.wordpress.com image 614x404]

Gee- I wonder where all the profit from that increased productivity went? Of course, we can't demand that some of it actually go to the workers. No Siree bob!

If workers get paid living wages then how are CEO's supposed to make more money in 10 minutes than they make in a year? HOW??!?!?!

Amazingly, they'd probably make more money in 5 minutes than I make in a year, due to all that extra consumption that would be possible inflating corporate profits even more.


This might have been true before 2008... but apparently now it's more fashionable to just fire a bunch of people and write "BLAME OBAMA" on the back of the pink slip.
 
2013-03-18 07:40:12 PM  
This is a good tactic.  By throwing out the $22/hour line then $10/hour seems like a reasonable compromise.  Whenever there is talk of raising the minimum wage the Republicans come out with the gloom and doom and how the country will be destroyed.  Then the minimum wage is raised and life goes on and the sky does not fall.
 
2013-03-18 07:42:28 PM  
perhaps it is the booze but am I missing something here?

FTFA: "One  of the panelists, Arindrajit Dube, an assistant professor at the Department of Economics at the University of Massachusetts -Amherst, said  by that logic - by going back even further in time - the minimum wage  could rightly be $33 per hour."

does the math really work that way?
 
2013-03-18 07:44:08 PM  

runwiz: This is a good tactic.  By throwing out the $22/hour line then $10/hour seems like a reasonable compromise.  Whenever there is talk of raising the minimum wage the Republicans come out with the gloom and doom and how the country will be destroyed.  Then the minimum wage is raised and life goes on and the sky does not fall.


You're not wrong, it WOULD be a good tactic... except it's still not what's happening.
 
2013-03-18 07:54:19 PM  
FTA -

"During my Senate campaign, I [frequently] ate a Number 11 at McDonald's. It cost $7.19," she said. "If we raised the minimum wage to $10.10 over three years, the price increase on that item would be to about $7.23. Are you telling me that's unsustainable?"

Yes, I'm telling you that.  You will out of business in 2 months.

You and Professor Dickweed should put your money where your mouth is.  Go buy a fast food joint, raise wages by 40%, and then prices by less than 1%.
 
2013-03-18 07:55:19 PM  

cchris_39: You and Professor Dickweed should put your money where your mouth is.


Oh, look at you.
 
2013-03-18 07:59:01 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: cchris_39: You and Professor Dickweed should put your money where your mouth is.

Oh, look at you.


It's so cute when they show how little they know about business.
 
2013-03-18 08:00:03 PM  

cchris_39: FTA -

"During my Senate campaign, I [frequently] ate a Number 11 at McDonald's. It cost $7.19," she said. "If we raised the minimum wage to $10.10 over three years, the price increase on that item would be to about $7.23. Are you telling me that's unsustainable?"

Yes, I'm telling you that.  You will out of business in 2 months.

You and Professor Dickweed should put your money where your mouth is.  Go buy a fast food joint, raise wages by 40%, and then prices by less than 1%.


So trickle-down then?  My f*cking umbrella has been collecting dust waiting for that windfall of benevolence.
 
2013-03-18 08:11:10 PM  

Paris1127: A Dark Evil Omen: How about $16.59/hr, like Australia?

But then there'd be no point in tipping a lot of workers, and Fark wouldn't be the same without a tipping thread...


As an Aussie friend of mine was fond of saying: "We don't tip in Australia because we pay people a decent wage so we don't have to."
 
2013-03-18 08:11:12 PM  

cchris_39: FTA -

"During my Senate campaign, I [frequently] ate a Number 11 at McDonald's. It cost $7.19," she said. "If we raised the minimum wage to $10.10 over three years, the price increase on that item would be to about $7.23. Are you telling me that's unsustainable?"

Yes, I'm telling you that.  You will out of business in 2 months.

You and Professor Dickweed should put your money where your mouth is.  Go buy a fast food joint, raise wages by 40%, and then prices by less than 1%.


That would depend on what percentage that franchise's labor costs are. You're assuming that the labor costs wouldn't be covered by that 1% price increase, without actually knowing the franchise's budget. Labor is only one cost, there's also utilities, rent, marketing, supplies, insurance, etc. etc.

Any truly Bootstrappy Rugged Individualist Small Business Owner would know this already though, so I have to assume you're actually an effeminate communist.
 
2013-03-18 08:21:13 PM  

cchris_39: FTA -

"During my Senate campaign, I [frequently] ate a Number 11 at McDonald's. It cost $7.19," she said. "If we raised the minimum wage to $10.10 over three years, the price increase on that item would be to about $7.23. Are you telling me that's unsustainable?"

Yes, I'm telling you that.  You will out of business in 2 months.

You and Professor Dickweed should put your money where your mouth is.  Go buy a fast food joint, raise wages by 40%, and then prices by less than 1%.


You could do the math, or you could just sit here and sound ignorant... here, let me go ahead and throw some examples out there for you.

It costs an extra $2.85 per employee per hour to increase the minimum wage to $10.10.  If it takes a crew of 4 to run a fast food joint, then you're looking at increased cost of $11.40 per hour for the business.  Increase the crew to 8 people and you get $22.80 extra per hour, 12 people (about the most I've ever seen in a fast food joint) brings it up to a whopping $34.20 per hour more... so let's figure out what it would take to cover the expense, shall we?

If they make 30 combos an hour, you're looking at a price increase of $0.38 per combo with a crew of 4, $0.76 per combo with a crew of 8, and $1.14 per combo with a crew of 12... but if they're only making 30 combos per her, then they should all be fired.

The math isn't hard to figure out for 60 per hour... it's $0.19, $0.38 and $0.57 increase per meal to cover labor while keeping profit exactly the same.

Now, since the average McDonald's serves 1,584 customers per day (source:  http://www.burgerbusiness.com/?p=9385) which works out to 66 customers per hour, we'll just go with the numbers for 60.

Now... I'm going to go ahead and concede that her math may have been off... but if you raise the prices by the 4 cents that she specified, that comes out to McDonald's losing between 15 and 53 cents potential profit per customer.  Do you REALLY think their margins are that thin?

Hell, they could probably make up for that by stopping free refills, or making customers ask for condiments if they were REALLY determined to not lose any of their precious profits.

In short... yes, they certainly could get away with a 40% increase in labor costs while only increasing the price by <1% and not go out of business.
 
2013-03-18 08:42:08 PM  

LectertheChef: Any truly Bootstrappy Rugged Individualist Small Business Owner would know this already though, so I have to assume you're actually an effeminate communist.


No, but if you assume that I"m a CFO with a Master's in Accounting and CPA since 1986 you'd be alot closer.

Your break even labor costs can be no more than 2.5% of sales in order for to break even, let alone produce additional profit.

Keeping the math as simple as possible, your labor cost are $100.  You increase them 40% so now they are $140.  Your sales before the price increase must be $4,000.  Apply a 1% price increase and your sales are now $4,040, exactly enough to cover the labor cost increase.

Thus your labor costs can be no more than 2.5% of total sales (100/4000).

/if you love math and are true nerdery material, try working the second iteration of the problem and you will find that it requires a 39% price increase for the second round.
 
2013-03-18 08:53:38 PM  

Klippoklondike: I am currently studying journalism.  If I handed in a headline as inaccurate as that, any of my professors would laugh in my face and tell me to never show up again


This is the Washington Times, so journalism has absolutely nothing to do with it.
 
2013-03-18 09:15:40 PM  

GoldSpider: Is there something wrong with the idea of a $22 minimum wage?


Big Macs might be $15 apiece to make up for it.
 
2013-03-18 09:35:02 PM  
there aren't any businesses left, i remember the last time they raised the minimum wage.

Damn you Fartbama Bush for destroying all those businesses
 
2013-03-18 09:49:06 PM  

cchris_39: Keeping the math as simple as possible, your labor cost are $100. You increase them 40% so now they are $140.  Your sales before the price increase must be $4,000.  Apply a 1% price increase and your sales are now $4,040, exactly enough to cover the labor cost increase.


So how would they be out of business in 2 months as you claimed if the price increase covers the labor increase?
 
2013-03-18 10:00:44 PM  

The Why Not Guy: So how would they be out of business in 2 months as you claimed if the price increase covers the labor increase?


The franchise owner would rather cash out than see his employees enjoy even the slightest benefit?
 
2013-03-18 10:01:15 PM  
The minimum wage could have kept rising, but instead we decided on stuff like the Earned Income Tax Credit instead.  Now we simply pay folks in lower brackets directly from the public coffers, in the form of getting bigger tax refunds than were originally withheld.  I know because I got four years of those checks back when I was a poor college student.

The result has been that we don't have to keep raising the minimum wage in line with general living expenses or inflation.  So we've effectively transferred the burden of supporting the poor from business owners to the general public.  It makes business owners, whether behemoths like Walmart or mom and pops, a lot happier.  But it doesn't actually save any money.
 
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