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(Slate)   Why do schools keep using suspension as a punishment when all the little bastards want to do is go home in the first place?   (slate.com) divider line 174
    More: Stupid, do schools, youth courts, middle schools, truancy, Sandy Hook, punishments, throw in, toy gun  
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7217 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2013 at 7:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 05:35:18 PM
"....when all the little bastards want to do..."

Subby must be a bitter, overworked, underpaid, public school teacher.

/There,there, summer will be here soon
 
2013-03-18 05:46:56 PM
Some have 'in school suspension' now. You go to school, you sit in a room and do nothing.
 
2013-03-18 05:48:17 PM
Always wondered about that myself. I came to the conclusion that school isn't there for the children, it's to give a job to people who can't get a real job. When you make their job difficult you got to go.
 
2013-03-18 05:53:43 PM
My sister was suspended for a week for wearing a t-shirt with a duck on it and my parents let her go with friends to the Caribbean for a week as "punishment".

The duck ban was started after the German club had some "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil " t-shirts printed with ducks rather than monkeys and people had been making quacking sounds behind the principal for a while.

The punishment that worked in Catholic  school was the paddle. If it was serious, they brought out the "Board of Education".  For some minor issues there was detention with the worst being forced to watch a clock for an hour.
 
2013-03-18 06:09:52 PM

Nadie_AZ: Some have 'in school suspension' now. You go to school, you sit in a room and do nothing.


It counts for attendance to get Federal grant money, and the kid gets no credit for work and attendance.

We're at a point that homeschooling isn't just for ultrareligious and the large-toothed.

School administrators can't touch your homeschooled kid.
 
2013-03-18 06:27:23 PM

Nadie_AZ: Some have 'in school suspension' now. You go to school, you sit in a room and do nothing.


A few districts have suspension schools.  You go to another school and do your homework and classwork and the penalty for any rule violation is more suspension.

Schools in some states lose money if a student is absent.
 
2013-03-18 06:45:38 PM
Because its better to do that then sending them to jail
 
2013-03-18 07:00:48 PM

Nadie_AZ: Some have 'in school suspension' now. You go to school, you sit in a room and do nothing.


But sometimes, you find out you have a lot more in common with each other than you thought!
 
2013-03-18 07:02:26 PM

Nadie_AZ: Some have 'in school suspension' now. You go to school, you sit in a room and do nothing.


now?
My high school had that 20 years ago.
I resolved never go get sent back there after the first time, because I didn't think I could take that much boredom again.
 
2013-03-18 07:10:01 PM
When I was in high school, I was suspended for ditching school. My mother went bonkers on what an asinine punishment that was, so we all got community service hours to do too. (Catholic school).

I still maintained my grades, it was just so fricken boring.
 
2013-03-18 07:10:35 PM
Why do we lock up the criminally insane when we are not punishing them?
 
2013-03-18 07:14:25 PM
Once there was a time that suspension meant a day home with a parent who would actually enact additional punishment....
 
2013-03-18 07:14:35 PM
...so the parents have to stay home from work to watch them, and beat them senseless for being little bratsopen a dialog to communicate with the little angels?
 
2013-03-18 07:15:16 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Always wondered about that myself. I came to the conclusion that school isn't there for the children, it's to give a job to people who can't get a real job. When you make their job difficult you got to go.


You've never actually confronted school discipline as even a thought exercise, have you.

/Hint: They aren't there for school. They're there for their  friends--staying home from school  sounds fun, right up until the kids discover that video games are only so interesting when no one's online. Also, there's the humiliation aspect.
//It doesn't work, TFA demonstrated that, but it is an actual punishment, and the 'those who can't do teach herpa derp' idea is why Finland has the best education system in the world and America doesn't.
 
2013-03-18 07:15:56 PM
Could it be that the schools want the parents to get involved in adjusting little snowflake's behavior?
 
2013-03-18 07:16:23 PM

SilentStrider: Nadie_AZ: Some have 'in school suspension' now. You go to school, you sit in a room and do nothing.

now?
My high school had that 20 years ago.
I resolved never go get sent back there after the first time, because I didn't think I could take that much boredom again.


Same with mine 13 years ago. But we still had out of school suspension as well, which for some reason was considered the more severe punishment by the administration. I was a bit jealous of friends who were suspended out of school and whose parents worked during the day.
 
2013-03-18 07:17:14 PM
Perks of punishment. Just like paid leave for corrupt cops.
 
2013-03-18 07:17:42 PM
Sometimes, the biggest knuckleheads thrive off of the attention they get from their peers. When you remove them from their audience, they run out of steam. Granted, this isn't the case for every kid who gets suspended, but it's part of the line of thinking in many instances.

/has worked in many schools for a half-dozen years
 
2013-03-18 07:18:55 PM
I hope everyone here is feeling trolly today, because all I have read so far is a bunch of stupid farking comments.

You remove them from the classroom so that the others can benefit from the student in question being gone.  No, we don't want your F ups when all the other students are trying their best.

On that note, suspensions for minor stuff is grade A stupid administration, and that is a big problem facing schools today. The administration, that is.
 
2013-03-18 07:20:51 PM
Because it's illegal to cane children into submission like the Victorians would.
 
2013-03-18 07:22:20 PM
I got in a fist fight with my best friend my 8th grade year, but he was smart enough to bring a knife from art class and cut me.  We both got a one day suspension.  I had to spend the whole day playing in the back yard with my pet beagle, and it was one of my fondest memories.   Life is weird, time to chill out is important, you know.
 
2013-03-18 07:22:38 PM

melewen: Once there was a time that suspension meant a day home with a parent who would actually enact additional punishment....


THIS.   If I'd been so bad as to get tossed out of school for a few days, it wasn't the "suspension" per se that would be a punishment, it would be the frightening things my father would have thought of to occupy my so called free time.

Thirty-five and that man still scares me.
 
2013-03-18 07:23:05 PM
Always wondered about that one myself, as someone who cut school often as a child.

"Little bastard doesn't want to come to school? Fine! We won't let them!"
 
2013-03-18 07:23:05 PM
Perhaps, a new punishment system should be devised.

Sex = 15 hours "volunteering" to take care of at least 10, 2 year olds.

Fighting = 10 hours in the blocks

Drugs = have to assist in the anti-drug thingys all year

Bullying = 15 hours of wearing a frilly pink dress for guys; 15 hours wearing painfully hideous clothes for girls.

Interrupting class = hog tied with duct tape and left for the duration of class.

/ to be continued
 
2013-03-18 07:23:27 PM
Why do schools keep using suspension as a punishment when all the little bastards want to do is go home in the first place?

Because it makes the little bastards the parent's problem instead of the school's, thereby punishing the parents, the people who inflicted the little bastards on the world in the first place.
 
2013-03-18 07:23:32 PM
Suspension is to punish the parents, not the children.
 
2013-03-18 07:23:51 PM
1) Most schools I know do on-school suspensions now.  You just sit in a room all day doing homework or reading a book or something.
2) The real point of suspension isn't the day-of punishment, it's the mark on your record that goes with you forever
 
2013-03-18 07:24:13 PM
At friend's school, they only suspend students out of school when they know the parents well enough to know they'll have consequences at home. If not, it's in-school and that includes cleaning the cafeteria, the windows, and (with parental permission) the bathrooms when the student isn't working on school work. He says they've actually had parents bring their kids in before school on out of school suspension days or on Saturday mornings to clean the bathrooms to make up for their infractions.

\not bad for a city school
\\ amazing what good parents can do
 
2013-03-18 07:24:42 PM
The same reason they push them through grade after grade when they can't read - actually doing something to address the root causes would require too much time and effort, and mean acknowledging a systemic failure.

In-school suspension also requires a babysitter, whereas given enough OSS, a kid will fall far enough behind in their work that they get moved to an alternative school or drop out - either way they're off your books.
 
2013-03-18 07:26:04 PM
I teach in one of the largest, yet most troubled school districts in the country (Prince George's County, Maryland). Here, suspension is given out freely, quite often because the students who deserve it are a continuous disruption to the learning environment. If a child has no purpose but to come to class and be a major disruption to the learning environment, they've got to go. Part of the problem lies in the lack of consequences that comes with suspension. The students are still allowed to make up the work they've missed when they're suspended. Essentially, they know they can do whatever they want to, get sent home, and just do the work at home. For them, there is no consequence, so the cycle continues. They continue to come, do whatever nonsense they want (everything under the sun--you name it, it happens at my school), and face no more consequence than being yelled at by an administrator who will then hound and harass their teachers to make sure the kid gets their work. Failure needs to be an option. They live under the unrealistic idea that their are no consequences to negative behavior in life. Most of my "bad" students who get suspended quite often and fail my freshmen English class come back and thank me for not letting them slide by like the system wants me to. The majority that fail my class freshmen year due to high rates of suspensions go on to learn their lesson. But I still have colleagues who will pass them even when they've done nothing to prove they've learned anything, and so again, the cycle continues, until someone kicks them in the rear and gets them to realize they can't do whatever they want and still get what they want. The system is as bad as an enabling parent. Which is sad, because most of them have enabling parents, which is why they're the way they are in the first place.
 
2013-03-18 07:26:53 PM

DON.MAC: The punishment that worked in Catholic  school was the paddle. If it was serious, they brought out the "Board of Education". .


Gotta see The Penguin.
s15.postimage.org
Memories.
 
2013-03-18 07:28:34 PM
My last year of high school, showing up late meant that you got sent to in-school suspension for the class you were missing.  I'm sure this sounded great in theory, keeping students from coming in late and all, but in practice, you still came in late while the beleaguered teacher was forced to stop what they were doing and write you a hall pass to go to the "holding cell".

They probably still have this system in place.

Personally, I never got any kind of suspension or a detention because I didn't want to have to answer for farking up my parents' carefully planned scheduling.  The yelling / punishment wouldn't be the worst of it.
 
2013-03-18 07:28:49 PM

Quaker: Same with mine 13 years ago. But we still had out of school suspension as well, which for some reason was considered the more severe punishment by the administration. I was a bit jealous of friends who were suspended out of school and whose parents worked during the day.


We had that as well, out of school being considered more severe.
Nobody in my circle of friends had it, that I recall. And I was the only one who ever managed to get an in school.
 
2013-03-18 07:31:14 PM
How the hell did this get greenlit?
 
2013-03-18 07:31:50 PM
Very true.  I would try to get suspended as I saw it as a 3-day vacation.
 
2013-03-18 07:32:27 PM
Same reason we punish murderers by killing them....
 
2013-03-18 07:33:06 PM

bhcompy: 2) The real point of suspension isn't the day-of punishment, it's the mark on your record that goes with you forever


Really? Forever? Don't you mean until the end of that school year? If you were a truly unruly student that stuff might follow you until you graduate but that's about it.
 
2013-03-18 07:35:56 PM

melewen: Once there was a time that suspension meant a day home with a parent who would actually enact additional punishment....


Well as no parents can be home to watch them they spend all time watching tv and goofing off.  Which is pretty nice.
 
2013-03-18 07:36:38 PM
The only suspension worth a damn...
i.ytimg.com

/well, that was one of the odder Google Image Search results I've ever had the displeasure of scanning through
//rule 34:  Alive and well
 
2013-03-18 07:37:26 PM
 
2013-03-18 07:38:18 PM

PsiChick: //It doesn't work, TFA demonstrated that,


No it didn't. It might certainly be the case that suspension is ineffective, but the "evidence" put forward in the article is some of the worst data analysis I've seen in a while.

the evidence FTFA:
A 2011 study showed that Texas students who were suspended or expelled at least once during middle school and high school averaged four such disciplinary actions during their academic careers. Fourteen percent of them were suspended 11 times or more. Suspensions don't even seem to benefit the school as a whole.

There is no comparison to disciplinary action in schools with different forms of punishment with which to compare whether disciplinary actions occur more or less with no punishment or with different punishment, so the numbers themselves are worthless as evidence of anything.

In recent years, while Baltimore city schools have dramatically reduced suspensions, the dropout rate has been cut nearly in half.

This could have the implied correlation exactly wrong, and in fact both the increase in graduation rate and decrease in suspensions could be entirely linked to either a) improved economic/community conditions, or b) better teachers. Good students with stable home lives both graduate more often and get suspended less, which, again, has nothing to do with the efficacy of suspension as a punishment.

A number of studies showed that minority children, students with low grades, and the poor are suspended disproportionately-a fact that remains true today.

This all sounds like it correlates to being poor. Minorities are still disproportionately poor today, children from low income households generally have parents low education backgrounds, so they can't supplement children's development at home, poor households also are disproportionately single parent households or parents who work extreme hours so they don't have time for reviewing their children's homework, meaning children from poor households also have disproportionately low grades. Again, none of this has any bearing on whether or not suspension is an effective form of punishment.

I'm all for doing proper research, but these data are not convincing at all.

/sorry, didn't mean to pick on you, I would have pointed it out anyway, you just gave me something to respond to.
 
2013-03-18 07:39:34 PM
Same question as why do cops gets suspended with pay, why do billionaire athletes get suspended from playing just to relax in their mansion, etc.
 
2013-03-18 07:39:48 PM

ReapTheChaos: bhcompy: 2) The real point of suspension isn't the day-of punishment, it's the mark on your record that goes with you forever

Really? Forever? Don't you mean until the end of that school year? If you were a truly unruly student that stuff might follow you until you graduate but that's about it.


I was accepted by Harvard, but then on the first day of classes I got called to the admissions office.  Turns out my high school had sent over my "official" transcripts, including the time I was suspended for calling Mandy Jones a 'classless twat' on a class trip.  They informed me they were sorry, but they couldn't allow me to attend classes at Harvard and I'd have to go to another school.

/Long story short, I flunked out of community college and now suck dick behind the 76 station for money.  All because of my "permanent record" as a child.
 
2013-03-18 07:40:52 PM

Nadie_AZ: Some have 'in school suspension' now. You go to school, you sit in a room and do nothing.


Wasn't that called "detention"?
 
2013-03-18 07:41:46 PM
I know someone who is a teacher and a hardcore Leftie and he's been asking this question for 20 years.

He says that suspending kids who want to be suspended defeats suspension as an act of punishment.
 
2013-03-18 07:41:49 PM

iheartscotch: Perhaps, a new punishment system should be devised.

Sex = 15 hours "volunteering" to take care of at least 10, 2 year olds.

Fighting = 10 hours in the blocks

Drugs = have to assist in the anti-drug thingys all year

Bullying = 15 hours of wearing a frilly pink dress for guys; 15 hours wearing painfully hideous clothes for girls.

Interrupting class = hog tied with duct tape and left for the duration of class.

/ to be continued


Leave your pedo fantasies of child sex, drugs, and cross dressing in your skull and off the internets.
 
2013-03-18 07:42:23 PM

doglover: Because it's illegal to cane children into submission like the Victorians would.


We should rectify that.
 
2013-03-18 07:43:03 PM

DON.MAC: My sister was suspended for a week for wearing a t-shirt with a duck on it and my parents let her go with friends to the Caribbean for a week as "punishment".

The duck ban was started after the German club had some "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil " t-shirts printed with ducks rather than monkeys and people had been making quacking sounds behind the principal for a while.

The punishment that worked in Catholic  school was the paddle. If it was serious, they brought out the "Board of Education".  For some minor issues there was detention with the worst being forced to watch a clock for an hour.


images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Has a chance of scoring a Critical Hit.
 
2013-03-18 07:44:12 PM

iheartscotch: Sex = 15 hours "volunteering" to take care of at least 10, 2 year olds.


Is this for the students or the teachers they bang?
 
2013-03-18 07:46:03 PM
Suspension benefits the students still in class, and as such should be used only for those who were actually doing something that disrupts class (not chewing gum).

We just lost a wonderful family at our school (two well-behaved, smart kids, and a mom who volunteered for anything all day long) because the little bastidge who's been tormenting the older child in the family mercilessly since kindergarten (now in grade 4) has yet to be suspended for any of the crazy-evil shiat he pulls. More has been done to appease the bastidge's overly hostile family members than has been done to protect any of his victims.

I don't care if they sit at home playing video games, as long as I can productively work with the other 30 kids while they're gone.
 
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