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(C|Net)   RIM uses their unparalleled experience in being behind the times to tell Apple that they are behind the times   (news.cnet.com) divider line 239
    More: Stupid, BlackBerry, iOS, user interfaces  
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1921 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Mar 2013 at 1:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 12:23:43 PM
That would be like the programmers of RealPlayer writing a email biatching about how much buffering YouTube does during peak time.
 
2013-03-18 12:29:18 PM
I don't think I'd ever want to work for those guys...
 
2013-03-18 12:41:54 PM
Based on the previews I've seen of BB10 and its gesture-based system, the current state of BB UI design is actually pretty damn good.

And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007.

2007

www.zomm.com

2013
www.blogcdn.com

Meanwhile, here are Apple's major competitors:

Android

2008:
www.techethon.com

2013
cdn-static.cnet.co.uk

Windows

2008
storage0.dms.go4it.ro

2013
www.blogcdn.com

Blackberry

2007:
www6.pcmag.com

2013
gigaom2.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-18 01:04:36 PM

xanadian: I don't think I'd ever want to work for those guys...


So you wouldn't want a RIM-job?
 
2013-03-18 01:09:49 PM

RexTalionis: Based on the previews I've seen of BB10 and its gesture-based system, the current state of BB UI design is actually pretty damn good.

And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007.

2007

[www.zomm.com image 514x300]

2013
[www.blogcdn.com image 501x334]

Meanwhile, here are Apple's major competitors:

Android

2008:
[www.techethon.com image 354x320]

2013
[cdn-static.cnet.co.uk image 440x329]

Windows

2008
[storage0.dms.go4it.ro image 440x330]

2013
[www.blogcdn.com image 490x385]

Blackberry

2007:
[www6.pcmag.com image 275x300]

2013
[gigaom2.files.wordpress.com image 430x286]


Not just that:  Android-based smartphones have functions that the iPhone still doesn't have, even now!
 
2013-03-18 01:10:11 PM
Microsoft rode the Windows 95esque platform for 17 years until Windows 8 and look what we ended up with. Sometimes innovation for the sake of innovation is not a good thing.
 
2013-03-18 01:10:20 PM

RexTalionis: And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007


But, but... how you improve upon perfection?
 
2013-03-18 01:13:22 PM

RexTalionis: And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007.


Honest question:  Do you really want your UI changing so often?  That was one of the things which pissed me off about moving between XP and Vista.  They moved things around where I did not expect them.
 
2013-03-18 01:14:04 PM

RexTalionis: And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007.


"Change for change's sake" is a poor-ass philosophy for UI development.

Not that I think the iOS launcher is particularly well designed, but it seems to get the job done.
 
2013-03-18 01:14:26 PM

wingnut396: RexTalionis: And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007

But, but... how you improve upon perfection?


Britney Spears asks herself the same question every time she enters the studio.
 
2013-03-18 01:15:08 PM

Rwa2play: Android-based smartphones have functions that the iPhone still doesn't have, even now!


And vice versa!
 
2013-03-18 01:16:56 PM
asset1.cbsistatic.com
BlackBerry CEO Thorsten Heins thinks it's about time Apple starts innovating again.

Speaking to the Australian Financial Review in an interview published today, Heins acknowledged that Apple "did a fantastic job in bringing touch devices to market [and] they did a fantastic job with the user interface," but he thinks the company might have become too complacent.Heins told AFR. "The user interface on the iPhone, with all due respect for what this invention was all about, is now five years old. I mean, look at our new Z10. Icons in a static grid, multiple pages you access by sweeping left or right, buttons at the bottom for phone or email, status display in a banner across the top... It looks like a 5 year old phone. We really need Apple to come up with something new so that we can copy it."
 
2013-03-18 01:17:38 PM

wingnut396: RexTalionis: And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007

But, but... how you improve upon perfection?


In Apples case, they replace their mapping app with one that takes you to the wrong location... hilariously, in some cases.  Other than that, Siri (which was an aquisition) and a hand drawn speedy processor, the iPhone really hasn't evolved that much.
 
2013-03-18 01:17:59 PM

Thrakkerzog: RexTalionis: And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007.

Honest question:  Do you really want your UI changing so often?  That was one of the things which pissed me off about moving between XP and Vista.  They moved things around where I did not expect them.


See, e.g. Microsoft Office ribbons.
 
2013-03-18 01:18:32 PM
Its ironic, because one of Apple's main slams against Android is that many Android users don't have the latest Android operating system installed, neglecting to point out that their own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.
 
2013-03-18 01:20:46 PM

T.rex: Its ironic, because one of Apple's main slams against Android is that many Android users don't have the latest Android operating system installed, neglecting to point out that their own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.


O_o?

Since when is a UI an operating system?
 
2013-03-18 01:20:49 PM

T.rex: that their own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.


iOS 6 is 5 years old?
 
2013-03-18 01:23:03 PM

T.rex: Its ironic, because one of Apple's main slams against Android is that many Android users don't have the latest version of theAndroid operating system installed, neglecting to point out noting thatthat something like 90% of Apple users are on the latest version oftheir own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.


Come on, compare apples to apples. The Android OS is more than 5 years old, too. Both iOS and Android have been through multiple versions in that time. And Apple's correct, in that there are plenty of  new Android phones being sold that aren't even on the latest version.
 
2013-03-18 01:23:51 PM

Thrakkerzog: RexTalionis: And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007.

Honest question:  Do you really want your UI changing so often?  That was one of the things which pissed me off about moving between XP and Vista.  They moved things around where I did not expect them.


Vista is the one thing that pissed me off about Vista, what a POS.
 
2013-03-18 01:24:04 PM
The smaller you are, the greater ability you have to make somewhat radical changes. You don't have an incredibly large base of customers that would crucify you if you gave them something they had to re-learn. Apple has just that, an expectation to look and feel the same as it always has. Android is arguably expected to change more frequently, what with it being something pretty much anyone can screw with. Microsoft Phone had such a small share, that not many would really care if they changed. RIM is in the same boat.

Yeah, iOS is five years old. It also has 5 years worth of a customer base that would not take kindly to suddenly having to re-figure out where all of their apps and files went on the phone. Why would they voluntarily screw with what is working for them? They have no need to change at this point.
 
2013-03-18 01:24:10 PM

RexTalionis: Based on the previews I've seen of BB10 and its gesture-based system, the current state of BB UI design is actually pretty damn good.

And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007.

2007

[www.zomm.com image 514x300]

2013
[www.blogcdn.com image 501x334]

Meanwhile, here are Apple's major competitors:

Android

2008:
[www.techethon.com image 354x320]

2013
[cdn-static.cnet.co.uk image 440x329]

Windows

2008
[storage0.dms.go4it.ro image 440x330]

2013
[www.blogcdn.com image 490x385]

Blackberry

2007:
[www6.pcmag.com image 275x300]

2013
[gigaom2.files.wordpress.com image 430x286]


And your point is? You seem to believe something be different means it's better or an improvement.

physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.
 
2013-03-18 01:24:51 PM
Thrakkerzog:
T.rex: Its ironic, because one of Apple's main slams against Android is that many Android users don't have the latest Android operating system installed, neglecting to point out that their own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.

O_o?

Since when is a UI an operating system?


It's the only part of the OS that the consumer interacts with, it might as well be the OS for market purposes.  It's not like you can get the same mobile OS with totally different UI's.
 
2013-03-18 01:25:55 PM

Rwa2play: Not just that: Android-based smartphones have functions that the iPhone still doesn't have, even now!


Like what for example functionality wise?

Not saying there isn't just wondering what. Usually when some says these they give some sort of maintenance example that you don't have to do actually on iPhone, so people pretend doing more work is a "feature".
 
2013-03-18 01:26:08 PM

poot_rootbeer: T.rex: that their own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.

iOS 6 is 5 years old?


Because it doesn't look different, they think there are no changes.
 
2013-03-18 01:27:06 PM

T.rex: Its ironic, because one of Apple's main slams against Android is that many Android users don't have the latest Android operating system installed, neglecting to point out that their own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.


IOs 6 you think is 5 years old?
 
2013-03-18 01:29:07 PM

Corvus: physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.


Android phones wish slidey keyboards can still be operated in portrait without the keyboard.
 
2013-03-18 01:30:32 PM

RexTalionis: Based on the previews I've seen of BB10 and its gesture-based system, the current state of BB UI design is actually pretty damn good.

And they do have a point about Apple being a bit behind on the times- the iOS UI hasn't had a change since it was first announced in 2007.

2007

[www.zomm.com image 514x300]

2013
[www.blogcdn.com image 501x334]

Meanwhile, here are Apple's major competitors:

Android

2008:
[www.techethon.com image 354x320]

2013
[cdn-static.cnet.co.uk image 440x329]

Windows

2008
[storage0.dms.go4it.ro image 440x330]

2013
[www.blogcdn.com image 490x385]

Blackberry

2007:
[www6.pcmag.com image 275x300]

2013
[gigaom2.files.wordpress.com image 430x286]


So your argument is all the other companies made their phones more iPhone like and that means iPhone design is outdated?
 
2013-03-18 01:30:50 PM

Rwa2play: Not just that: Android-based smartphones have functions that the iPhone still doesn't have, even now!

One thing I will say, though, is my boyfriend's Android that is a year old is slowly dying and slowing down, whereas my iPhone 4S is about the same as it was when I got it. It feels like Androids meet their slow deaths much more quickly than iPhones. And seeing as I don't need every feature ever, but REALLY don't want to buy a new phone before my plan gives me a huge discount (coupled with ALL phones being too damned big all of a sudden) I'm happy with what I have.

But I can see how someone who really wants every single bit of new technology being very much over the iPhone.
 
2013-03-18 01:31:18 PM

Thrakkerzog: T.rex: Its ironic, because one of Apple's main slams against Android is that many Android users don't have the latest Android operating system installed, neglecting to point out that their own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.

O_o?

Since when is a UI an operating system?


ummm. since always... Oh my bad... they added Siri and Apple maps.
 
2013-03-18 01:32:19 PM
If being behind the times includes having ~$76B in cash reserves, I'm sure Apple isn't worried. Sounds like someone is desperate for new ideas from which to copyAHEM innovate.
 
2013-03-18 01:33:13 PM

fuhfuhfuh: The smaller you are, the greater ability you have to make somewhat radical changes. You don't have an incredibly large base of customers that would crucify you if you gave them something they had to re-learn. Apple has just that, an expectation to look and feel the same as it always has. Android is arguably expected to change more frequently, what with it being something pretty much anyone can screw with. Microsoft Phone had such a small share, that not many would really care if they changed. RIM is in the same boat.

Yeah, iOS is five years old. It also has 5 years worth of a customer base that would not take kindly to suddenly having to re-figure out where all of their apps and files went on the phone. Why would they voluntarily screw with what is working for them? They have no need to change at this point.


Except... wasn't that part of the genius of Jobs?  He seemed to tap into that need to change things up almost on the fly that a lot of people crave.  He seemed to recognize that people get bored with things and you have to change or die.

The difficulty being, of course, that without him I doubt that Apple could make a radical change without getting killed in the marketplace.  If Jobs had come up with (or signed off on) some radical change to the UI, it would have been accepted as genius.  Now, I doubt that'll happen.

/Quit Iphones a few years ago.
//Windows Phone on Nokia 920 now.
///Works great, won't go back.
 
2013-03-18 01:33:24 PM

Corvus: Not saying there isn't just wondering what. Usually when some says these they give some sort of maintenance example that you don't have to do actually on iPhone, so people pretend doing more work is a "feature".


The App drawer, NFC, facial recognition to unlock are ones that I can think of.

With that being said, I would turn off the face unlock, and I've never seen any store which had NFC payments as an option.

I can't say whether or not I'd use the app drawer.
 
2013-03-18 01:33:46 PM

Corvus: physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.


Except you have the option of using the physical or a virtual keyboard...
 
2013-03-18 01:33:48 PM

jonny_q: Corvus: physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.

Android phones wish slidey keyboards can still be operated in portrait without the keyboard.


Right. Which is a horrible user experience if they do because they are going to people who are not good with virtual keyboards. You basically need to build a landscape version of your app for just these users if your app has lots of typing.
 
2013-03-18 01:35:37 PM

poot_rootbeer: Rwa2play: Android-based smartphones have functions that the iPhone still doesn't have, even now!

And vice versa!


Oh, it goes all over the place.  I remember when the first iPhone came out, I was using a Palm Treo 650.  About the only things that it couldn't do as well as a first gen iPhone were video and screen resolution.  I was doing things that people with iPhones thought were new six months before.
 
2013-03-18 01:35:55 PM

Thrakkerzog: Corvus: Not saying there isn't just wondering what. Usually when some says these they give some sort of maintenance example that you don't have to do actually on iPhone, so people pretend doing more work is a "feature".

The App drawer, NFC, facial recognition to unlock are ones that I can think of.

With that being said, I would turn off the face unlock, and I've never seen any store which had NFC payments as an option.

I can't say whether or not I'd use the app drawer.


"The app drawer" provides what functionality exactly?

I will give you that it has better unlock features. But I don't think anyone would make a phone decision based on that.

Once again NFC is a technology not a feature. iPhone has the same feature that that provides but uses a different method.
 
2013-03-18 01:37:04 PM

mjones73: Corvus: physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.

Except you have the option of using the physical or a virtual keyboard...


Yes you do. You can force a user who most like hates and is unfamiliar with virtual keyboard to use it. But like I said that is not a good user experience.
 
2013-03-18 01:37:41 PM

T.rex: Thrakkerzog: T.rex: Its ironic, because one of Apple's main slams against Android is that many Android users don't have the latest Android operating system installed, neglecting to point out that their own OS, although ubiquitous, is 5 years old.

O_o?

Since when is a UI an operating system?

ummm. since always... Oh my bad... they added Siri and Apple maps.


So you now about nothing about what you are talking about?
 
2013-03-18 01:38:53 PM

Corvus: Rwa2play: Not just that: Android-based smartphones have functions that the iPhone still doesn't have, even now!

Like what for example functionality wise?

Not saying there isn't just wondering what. Usually when some says these they give some sort of maintenance example that you don't have to do actually on iPhone, so people pretend doing more work is a "feature".


Widgets, Swype-like keyboards, the ability to change default programs for various tasks, and the ability to install apps from outside the app store without having to root or jailbreak.

All 4 of those for me are killers on android that would cause me to go into withdrawl if I had to ever go back.  You may or may not agree with the last one, but there's a reason the Humble Bundles aren't released for iOS.
 
2013-03-18 01:39:03 PM
Corvus:

"The app drawer" provides what functionality exactly?

Not needing to have all your icons on the desktop, you add your commonly used apps to the desktop, everything else is in the drawer (which can be ordered in different ways)
 
2013-03-18 01:39:49 PM
Oh, so you have to throw out everything and start over every 3-4 years?

Then we better get rid of stuff like the wheel, radio and electric motors.

Those are  so old and stale it's embarrassing to have to have to keep using them.
 
2013-03-18 01:40:16 PM

Corvus: mjones73: Corvus: physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.

Except you have the option of using the physical or a virtual keyboard...

Yes you do. You can force a user who most like hates and is unfamiliar with virtual keyboard to use it. But like I said that is not a good user experience.


Considering few if any Android phones these days have physical keyboards, what's your point?
 
2013-03-18 01:41:29 PM

Driedsponge: Corvus: Rwa2play: Not just that: Android-based smartphones have functions that the iPhone still doesn't have, even now!

Like what for example functionality wise?

Not saying there isn't just wondering what. Usually when some says these they give some sort of maintenance example that you don't have to do actually on iPhone, so people pretend doing more work is a "feature".

Widgets, Swype-like keyboards, the ability to change default programs for various tasks, and the ability to install apps from outside the app store without having to root or jailbreak.

All 4 of those for me are killers on android that would cause me to go into withdrawl if I had to ever go back.  You may or may not agree with the last one, but there's a reason the Humble Bundles aren't released for iOS.


Once again you are not listing features, you are listing ways android does things. They are not the same thing.
 
2013-03-18 01:42:54 PM

mjones73: Corvus: mjones73: Corvus: physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.

Except you have the option of using the physical or a virtual keyboard...

Yes you do. You can force a user who most like hates and is unfamiliar with virtual keyboard to use it. But like I said that is not a good user experience.

Considering few if any Android phones these days have physical keyboards, what's your point?


Actually that proves my point. It was a bad idea.

My point is having more "things" doesn't automatically make your phone better.
 
2013-03-18 01:42:55 PM

poot_rootbeer: "Change for change's sake" is a poor-ass philosophy for UI development.


By the same token, there's always room for improvement.  I think Android's development is proof of how you can improve your interface greatly without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 
2013-03-18 01:43:39 PM
I see the white knights of Apple are out in force this morning.
 
2013-03-18 01:45:08 PM

mjones73: Corvus:

"The app drawer" provides what functionality exactly?

Not needing to have all your icons on the desktop, you add your commonly used apps to the desktop, everything else is in the drawer (which can be ordered in different ways)


So what feature does this provide? You are talking once again about maintenance like I said. Saying "My phone is better because it has tools for me manage it's poorly designed UI and operating system" to me is not a feature.
 
2013-03-18 01:45:27 PM

Corvus: mjones73: Corvus: mjones73: Corvus: physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.

Except you have the option of using the physical or a virtual keyboard...

Yes you do. You can force a user who most like hates and is unfamiliar with virtual keyboard to use it. But like I said that is not a good user experience.

Considering few if any Android phones these days have physical keyboards, what's your point?

Actually that proves my point. It was a bad idea.

My point is having more "things" doesn't automatically make your phone better.


It just gave users more options, some people still preferred a physical keyboard, otherwise phones like the Droid 4 wouldn't still be sold. I don't see how having the option makes for a bad user experience though, so I still don't your point.
 
2013-03-18 01:45:28 PM

Kome: xanadian: I don't think I'd ever want to work for those guys...

So you wouldn't want a RIM-job?


Nope.  Nobody likes a kiss-ass.

/thank you try the veal etc
 
2013-03-18 01:46:00 PM

jonny_q: Corvus: physical Keyboard on phones can actually be a bad thing because they force the user into only one orientation of the phone. Adding things are not always an improvement.

Android phones wish slidey keyboards can still be operated in portrait without the keyboard.


You realize that the vast majority of Android phones don't have a slidey keyboard, don't you?  And also that Android's keyboard is significantly better than iOS's in many ways (for example, it actually shows you the letters in upper/lowercase depending on your shift status)?

And I honestly don't know where Corvus is talking about, because the examples he's referring to are of phones that dropped physical keyboards entirely.
 
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