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(Chicago Trib)   American Airlines ordered to justify the $20 million severance given to their CEO. "Because he asked for it" apparently wasn't a good enough explanation   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 216
    More: Followup, American Airlines, executive directors, Americans, AMR Corp., unsecured creditors, United States bankruptcy court, US Airways Group, explanations  
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14413 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Mar 2013 at 11:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 05:34:52 PM  

mizchief: hitlersbrain: mizchief: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I'd have strong words with my Union Rep.

"What the eff are we paying you for? He does all his own negotiations and look what he gets!!"

- Disgruntled Union Member

The goal of a Union is to make the Union stronger, not to increase the well-being of the individual worker. The benefits a Union provides are just placates to keep the workers working and as ubiquitous as possible so that as many workers are kept on the payroll as possible and the dues keep flowing in.

Are Union workers paid more and do they enjoy more benefits than non-union workers? Yes? Well there ya go,

Only in industries where they have the government to back up their inevitable failure.


Like banking?  :)
 
2013-03-18 05:36:47 PM  

ReverendJynxed: hitlersbrain: mizchief: hitlersbrain: mizchief: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I'd have strong words with my Union Rep.

"What the eff are we paying you for? He does all his own negotiations and look what he gets!!"

- Disgruntled Union Member

The goal of a Union is to make the Union stronger, not to increase the well-being of the individual worker. The benefits a Union provides are just placates to keep the workers working and as ubiquitous as possible so that as many workers are kept on the payroll as possible and the dues keep flowing in.

Are Union workers paid more and do they enjoy more benefits than non-union workers? Yes? Well there ya go,

Only in industries where they have the government to back up their inevitable failure. Otherwise it just becomes and averaging out where the best workers that would be getting even higher salaries because they are fought after by the competing businesses, are instead just split with the knuckle draggers that only work hard enough not to get fired.

I've worked long enough to know that competent, hard work at blue collar level jobs (and most non-management white-collar jobs) is never noticed by those at the top. Things like Unions will always be needed to give workers a decent standard of living.

You keep using that word...


There are many companies out there that are non-union that have wonderful wages and benefits. But you have to be worth hiring and not some union schlep that sits around all day farking with time-clocks to get their extra minute of OT, etc. etc. Unions are unnecessary in this day and age when we have federal and state labor protection.


Know how I know you've never been down a Massey coal mine?
 
2013-03-18 05:40:55 PM  

ReverendJynxed: hitlersbrain: ReverendJynxed: There are many companies out there that are non-union that have wonderful wages and benefits. But you have to be worth hiring and not some union schlep that sits around all day farking with time-clocks to get their extra minute of OT, etc. etc. Unions are unnecessary in this day and age when we have federal and state labor protection.

No one needs to go on strike because they have to pay 50 cents for a coffee in a vending machine. Well no one but unionized employees (Boeing) would dare say it affects their cost of living.

The companies offering a good wage only do so to compete with union waged salaries. Without them even those companies would lower wages to poverty levels (and beyond).

It's the nature of capitalism. Even if a company has a 'good heart' and wants to pay workers fairly, they'll be out competed by scumbag companies offering garbage wages.

As for being 'worth hiring', that's something the company has to work out with the Union. I'm guessing it usually means throwing out older workers who make a higher wage after working years in the company.

So long as corporations consider workers expendable resources, workers will need a counter force that's on their side (or go back to pretty much being slaves).

Except... LAWS.


Except...regulatory capture.
 
2013-03-18 06:17:08 PM  

BMFPitt: machodonkeywrestler: BMFPitt: machodonkeywrestler: tenpoundsofcheese: CeroX:

There ya go CEO, a company build on the backs of the employees and you "earned" your bonus... the same as everyone else...

Are you saying the current employees CEO built the company?  I didn't know the company was that new.  Looks like they he didn't do a very good job at building it since it is in bankruptcy.

FTFY

You believe anyone is saying that?

It's as valid as 10lbs comparison.

His "comparison" was plainly sarcastic. Whereas you seem to actually believe that there are actual people who think the CEO in question built the company.


And you seem to make unwarranted assumptions about people's statements. But go ahead, see how that works out for you in life. I always assume 10 lbs is serious, since his posts are always Grade A 100% pants on head retarded.
 
2013-03-18 06:26:52 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: BMFPitt: machodonkeywrestler: BMFPitt: machodonkeywrestler: tenpoundsofcheese: CeroX:

There ya go CEO, a company build on the backs of the employees and you "earned" your bonus... the same as everyone else...

Are you saying the current employees CEO built the company?  I didn't know the company was that new.  Looks like they he didn't do a very good job at building it since it is in bankruptcy.

FTFY

You believe anyone is saying that?

It's as valid as 10lbs comparison.

His "comparison" was plainly sarcastic. Whereas you seem to actually believe that there are actual people who think the CEO in question built the company.

And you seem to make unwarranted assumptions about people's statements. But go ahead, see how that works out for you in life. I always assume 10 lbs is serious, since his posts are always Grade A 100% pants on head retarded.


And I would think that someone who has been around here as long as you have might have learned something about the people who post here. Guess you're a little slow on the pick up.
 
2013-03-18 06:41:26 PM  

limeyfellow: tenpoundsofcheese: "because he negotiated it as part of his compensation and the board agreed with it after consulting with third party pay consultants" is a good answer.

Which would probably pass muster, if they didn't all sit on each others boards and act as consultants for each other over what should be their pay and suitable compensation.


This.
 
2013-03-18 06:57:03 PM  

IlGreven: ZAZ: Bankruptcy court is not bound by prior negotiations, contracts, solemn vows, or even the opinion of pay consultants.

So, basically, looking through the Supreme Court's history of rulings on contract law, contracts are sacrosanct...until you're in bankruptcy, then all bets are off.




It would be gamed, if not.
 
2013-03-18 08:25:01 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: And you seem to make unwarranted assumptions about people's statements. But go ahead, see how that works out for you in life. I always assume 10 lbs is serious, since his posts are always Grade A 100% pants on head retarded.


Please elaborate on what assumptions you believe I have made about which statements.

Whereas you seem to have assumed that when tenpoundsofcheese mocked CeroX's claim that the 83 year old American Airlines was, "Buil[t] on the backs of the employees," then the only thing that he could have meant was that the outgoing CEO must have built that company.  I found this assumption to be amusing.
 
2013-03-18 09:36:11 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: "because he negotiated it as part of his compensation and the board agreed with it after consulting with third party pay consultants" is a good answer.


You are freaking retarded.  Do you actually have this little understanding about what bankruptcy courts do with contractual obligations?
 
2013-03-18 09:41:03 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Ctrl-Alt-Del: tenpoundsofcheese: Elandriel: Chapter 11 nulls all existing contracts

No, that is wrong.

It's close enough to correct that you look like an ass trying to argue against it

The term executory contract assumes a specialized meaning in some areas of law. In bankruptcy law, an executory contract is a contract in which continuing obligations exist on both sides of the contract. In this context, a trustee may assume or reject any executory contract or unexpired lease subject to court approval. [1] See e.g. 11 U.S.C. § 365.

And the contract was accepted when the merger was closed.
Now they want to re-negotiate it.


Apparently the answer to my question is "Yes."
 
2013-03-18 10:00:48 PM  

Elandriel: Chapter 11 nulls all existing contracts and requires an almost unilateral re-write of obligations to creditors through the Chapter 11 plan, unless the case dismisses. Even provisions such as "survives bankruptcy" are null; the power of the bankruptcy court supersedes pre-petition agreements.


That's the key - he didn't join before the petition. He joined day of. He was hired to be a big gun to pull them through chapter 11 and merger. Lot of derp in this thread from people who didn't read RTFA and think he put them in bankruptcy.
 
2013-03-18 10:01:17 PM  
 The answer is clearly because he is from an airline and not a big bank or transnational company.

 If you want a golden parachute you gotta play with the big boys.

/got nuthin'
//let them eat cake
///the cake is a lie
 
2013-03-19 12:34:26 AM  

cybrwzrd: mizchief: That's kind of my point. To me, that was motivation not to be a blue-collar worker and go learn to do something valuable. If you have no ambition then a Union job is probably your best bet, just don't think that the Union bosses are out to help you as much as they are themselves.

This attitude is what is wrong with this country. It is the core of why unions are hated and management loved. It is why we are becoming a service industry focused nation with a vast wealth divide. A majority of people actually think that working on a manufacturing line or as a plumber or construction worker or many other blue collar jobs are "dirty" jobs that are beneath them. It is why college degrees are considered necessary for even the most menial of office jobs (though they are not) - and why college is no longer about education unless it is for job training.

Until every surgeon, engineer and CEO has the ability to build their own phones, sports cars, homes, and grow their own food - the mechanic, farmer, plumber and factory worker are just as valuable to society.


Either that or as a developed nation we continue to evolve and push the envelope in science, technology, and art  and let those countries that are struggling to survive take on the jobs that don't require education instead of clinging on to them and artificially inflating the wages of those who choose to squander the amazing opportunities they are born into.
 
2013-03-19 12:46:46 AM  

PunGent: mizchief: hitlersbrain: mizchief: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I'd have strong words with my Union Rep.

"What the eff are we paying you for? He does all his own negotiations and look what he gets!!"

- Disgruntled Union Member

The goal of a Union is to make the Union stronger, not to increase the well-being of the individual worker. The benefits a Union provides are just placates to keep the workers working and as ubiquitous as possible so that as many workers are kept on the payroll as possible and the dues keep flowing in.

Are Union workers paid more and do they enjoy more benefits than non-union workers? Yes? Well there ya go,

Only in industries where they have the government to back up their inevitable failure.

Like banking?  :)


Banking is a whole 'nother scam on it's own. Google "where money comes from"
 
2013-03-19 08:25:57 AM  

Silverstaff: ZAZ: Bankruptcy court is not bound by prior negotiations, contracts, solemn vows, or even the opinion of pay consultants.

Bingo.

There's a reason I have tenpoundsofcheese farkied as "ten pounds of derp".  He's either a very short-bus special Farker incapable of operating outside a Fox-Limbaugh field, or performing some truly wonderful performance art.  Unfortunately Poe's Law prevents me from knowing which one, a sort of internet Heisenberg's Uncertainty effect.


sort of a schrodinger's cat of derp
 
2013-03-19 02:42:39 PM  

cybrwzrd: mizchief: That's kind of my point. To me, that was motivation not to be a blue-collar worker and go learn to do something valuable. If you have no ambition then a Union job is probably your best bet, just don't think that the Union bosses are out to help you as much as they are themselves.

This attitude is what is wrong with this country. It is the core of why unions are hated and management loved. It is why we are becoming a service industry focused nation with a vast wealth divide. A majority of people actually think that working on a manufacturing line or as a plumber or construction worker or many other blue collar jobs are "dirty" jobs that are beneath them. It is why college degrees are considered necessary for even the most menial of office jobs (though they are not) - and why college is no longer about education unless it is for job training.

Until every surgeon, engineer and CEO has the ability to build their own phones, sports cars, homes, and grow their own food - the mechanic, farmer, plumber and factory worker are just as valuable to society.


www.themidnightdiner.com
 
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