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(Chicago Trib)   American Airlines ordered to justify the $20 million severance given to their CEO. "Because he asked for it" apparently wasn't a good enough explanation   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 216
    More: Followup, American Airlines, executive directors, Americans, AMR Corp., unsecured creditors, United States bankruptcy court, US Airways Group, explanations  
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14415 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Mar 2013 at 11:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 02:25:03 PM  

InfrasonicTom: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: BMFPitt: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: BMFPitt: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Don't like it? Don't fly AA then. Really not that complicated.

Don't you mean, "Don't like it? Retroactively don't loan money to AA, then."

Those ATSB grants/loans to the airline industry ended up turning something like a $200 million profit. And that was over ten years ago.

I don't understand people who kvetch constantly about stuff that really doesn't concern them.

How is that relevant to the unsecured creditors whose $20m is being stolen?

Is he stealing it from you? Did he use a gun?

It was negotiated with the board. If it doesn't pass muster, the bankruptcy judge will stop it. Again, why would you care unless you were a shareholder or employee? If that's the case, direct your ire at the BoD.

Or keep kvetching, it's up to you.


Yes, it was a fairly and objectively negotiated contract by a group of elitist uber rich men who just so happen to be very likely to negotiate for each other on other contracts.   Who could have a problem with this?


Right. There's a class of elites conspiring to keep hard-working 'muricans poor. Aren't you late for a drum circle somewhere?
 
2013-03-18 02:25:21 PM  

Musikslayer: Nana's Vibrator: DubtodaIll: Aside from allowing yourself to feel morally superior to someone who has been much more successful than you,

You have a myopic way of measuring success. He's a colossal failure in everything except being a douchebag.


Do you know that he was a failure? Maybe he was, or maybe he was brought into a failing company and did as good as job as anyone could have. Maybe he only agreed to use his skills at that company if he was promised a certain amount of severance if let go before his other stock options or bonus or other forms of compensation would pay of had he been at the company for 20 years.

I don't really know, therefore i'm not passing judgement, just general mockery.
 
2013-03-18 02:28:08 PM  

mizchief: hitlersbrain: mizchief: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I'd have strong words with my Union Rep.

"What the eff are we paying you for? He does all his own negotiations and look what he gets!!"

- Disgruntled Union Member

The goal of a Union is to make the Union stronger, not to increase the well-being of the individual worker. The benefits a Union provides are just placates to keep the workers working and as ubiquitous as possible so that as many workers are kept on the payroll as possible and the dues keep flowing in.

Are Union workers paid more and do they enjoy more benefits than non-union workers? Yes? Well there ya go,

Only in industries where they have the government to back up their inevitable failure. Otherwise it just becomes and averaging out where the best workers that would be getting even higher salaries because they are fought after by the competing businesses, are instead just split with the knuckle draggers that only work hard enough not to get fired.


I've worked long enough to know that competent, hard work at blue collar level jobs (and most non-management white-collar jobs) is never noticed by those at the top. Things like Unions will always be needed to give workers a decent standard of living.
 
2013-03-18 02:28:58 PM  
www.aphrodite-mgmt.com
 
2013-03-18 02:29:49 PM  

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: mizchief: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Don't like it? Don't fly AA then. Really not that complicated.

Except that our government uses my tax dollars to bail these farkers out when they fail.

1. Call your congressman

2. ATSB loans turned a small profit.

I don't think highly of AA's management either. After they cajoled AA's unions into givebacks and concessions in 2004(?), the company turned an annual profit of around $210M, then gave management types $195M in bonuses.


Calling congressmen doesn't do shiat unless you have thousands of dollars to donate to their campaigns, as for every person that calls, there are 100 more that just vote for who ever they see on TV the most. This is why we must prevent them from having this much power in the first place. 

If I go to Vegas and put my life savings on black, then win, does that make me a good finical planner? If the loan wasn't risky a private bank would have made the loan, not the Feds.
 
2013-03-18 02:32:01 PM  

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: BMFPitt: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: BMFPitt: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Don't like it? Don't fly AA then. Really not that complicated.

Don't you mean, "Don't like it? Retroactively don't loan money to AA, then."

Those ATSB grants/loans to the airline industry ended up turning something like a $200 million profit. And that was over ten years ago.

I don't understand people who kvetch constantly about stuff that really doesn't concern them.

How is that relevant to the unsecured creditors whose $20m is being stolen?

Is he stealing it from you? Did he use a gun?

It was negotiated with the board. If it doesn't pass muster, the bankruptcy judge will stop it. Again, why would you care unless you were a shareholder or employee? If that's the case, direct your ire at the BoD.

Or keep kvetching, it's up to you.


Due to similar past experience, I sure as fark won't be owning any airline stock directly, nor the stock of any company who negotiates such terms with their employees.

Why do you believe my ire is directed anywhere other than the board?
 
2013-03-18 02:35:13 PM  

hitlersbrain: mizchief: hitlersbrain: mizchief: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I'd have strong words with my Union Rep.

"What the eff are we paying you for? He does all his own negotiations and look what he gets!!"

- Disgruntled Union Member

The goal of a Union is to make the Union stronger, not to increase the well-being of the individual worker. The benefits a Union provides are just placates to keep the workers working and as ubiquitous as possible so that as many workers are kept on the payroll as possible and the dues keep flowing in.

Are Union workers paid more and do they enjoy more benefits than non-union workers? Yes? Well there ya go,

Only in industries where they have the government to back up their inevitable failure. Otherwise it just becomes and averaging out where the best workers that would be getting even higher salaries because they are fought after by the competing businesses, are instead just split with the knuckle draggers that only work hard enough not to get fired.

I've worked long enough to know that competent, hard work at blue collar level jobs (and most non-management white-collar jobs) is never noticed by those at the top. Things like Unions will always be needed to give workers a decent standard of living.


That's kind of my point. To me, that was motivation not to be a blue-collar worker and go learn to do something valuable. If you have no ambition then a Union job is probably your best bet, just don't think that the Union bosses are out to help you as much as they are themselves.
 
2013-03-18 02:38:51 PM  

mizchief: hitlersbrain: mizchief: hitlersbrain: mizchief: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I'd have strong words with my Union Rep.

"What the eff are we paying you for? He does all his own negotiations and look what he gets!!"

- Disgruntled Union Member

The goal of a Union is to make the Union stronger, not to increase the well-being of the individual worker. The benefits a Union provides are just placates to keep the workers working and as ubiquitous as possible so that as many workers are kept on the payroll as possible and the dues keep flowing in.

Are Union workers paid more and do they enjoy more benefits than non-union workers? Yes? Well there ya go,

Only in industries where they have the government to back up their inevitable failure. Otherwise it just becomes and averaging out where the best workers that would be getting even higher salaries because they are fought after by the competing businesses, are instead just split with the knuckle draggers that only work hard enough not to get fired.

I've worked long enough to know that competent, hard work at blue collar level jobs (and most non-management white-collar jobs) is never noticed by those at the top. Things like Unions will always be needed to give workers a decent standard of living.

That's kind of my point. To me, that was motivation not to be a blue-collar worker and go learn to do something valuable. If you have no ambition then a Union job is probably your best bet, just don't think that the Union bosses are out to help you as much as they are themselves.


Which is why these guys need to make a strong comeback.

www.iww.org
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-03-18 02:38:55 PM  
jaytkay: It's a public corporation. The shareholder's money is being used for the private benefit of a few board members and top executives who loot the company.

It's a bankrupt corporation. It's assets belong to the the creditors. Not the for the private benefit of a few board members and top executives who loot the company.


It may be time for a hard cap on total compensation for executives of public or bankrupt companies, say $1 million per year or .05% of US taxable income. In the 1980s Congress tried to limit compensation to $1 million per year but underestimated how hard companies would work to get around the limit. The law made higher salaries come out of post-tax rather than pre-tax funds.

For private, solvent companies, whatever the shareholders will give you subject to rules on minority shareholder protection.
 
2013-03-18 02:39:40 PM  
This guy doesn't deserve shiat.

Being the CEO for one of the largest companies around really isn't that hard. Any top level finance grad can pretty much do it.

And all CEO's should always be held solely responsible for the companies financial health, because there just aren't any other factors at play. Every dollar the company makes or loses is all based on personal decisions he makes.
 
2013-03-18 02:41:28 PM  

hitlersbrain: mizchief: hitlersbrain: mizchief: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I'd have strong words with my Union Rep.

"What the eff are we paying you for? He does all his own negotiations and look what he gets!!"

- Disgruntled Union Member

The goal of a Union is to make the Union stronger, not to increase the well-being of the individual worker. The benefits a Union provides are just placates to keep the workers working and as ubiquitous as possible so that as many workers are kept on the payroll as possible and the dues keep flowing in.

Are Union workers paid more and do they enjoy more benefits than non-union workers? Yes? Well there ya go,

Only in industries where they have the government to back up their inevitable failure. Otherwise it just becomes and averaging out where the best workers that would be getting even higher salaries because they are fought after by the competing businesses, are instead just split with the knuckle draggers that only work hard enough not to get fired.

I've worked long enough to know that competent, hard work at blue collar level jobs (and most non-management white-collar jobs) is never noticed by those at the top. Things like Unions will always be needed to give workers a decent standard of living.


You keep using that word...


There are many companies out there that are non-union that have wonderful wages and benefits. But you have to be worth hiring and not some union schlep that sits around all day farking with time-clocks to get their extra minute of OT, etc. etc. Unions are unnecessary in this day and age when we have federal and state labor protection.

No one needs to go on strike because they have to pay 50 cents for a coffee in a vending machine. Well no one but unionized employees (Boeing) would dare say it affects their cost of living.
 
2013-03-18 02:42:22 PM  
Justify the amount?

cuz it was in his contract, and unless and until the bankruptcy court rules otherwise, they are bound to the contract.

Bankruptcy court is free to change the amount as they see fit.


The amount of butt-hurt displayed here is ridiculous.
 
m00
2013-03-18 02:42:27 PM  

Steven Cleamer: Being the CEO for one of the largest companies around really isn't that hard. Any top level finance grad can pretty much do it.


I would happily drive a company into the ground and bankrupt it for substantially less than a 20 million payout.
 
2013-03-18 02:43:20 PM  

Steven Cleamer: This guy doesn't deserve shiat.

Being the CEO for one of the largest companies around really isn't that hard. Any top level finance grad can pretty much do it.

And all CEO's should always be held solely responsible for the companies financial health, because there just aren't any other factors at play. Every dollar the company makes or loses is all based on personal decisions he makes.


Any high-school drop-out can go to paid luncheons.
 
2013-03-18 02:44:54 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: "because he negotiated it as part of his compensation and the board agreed with it after consulting with third party pay consultants" is a good answer.


Then the same argument would apply to the pilots, flight attendants et al. They all had contracts but guess what, the company ran out of money and defaulted on debt so why does one man get his slice of the pie and the rest get farked?
 
2013-03-18 02:51:13 PM  

Weaver95: Obviously that man needs a tax cut. Can't have $20 million without a tax cut!


Wrong. Obviously they need a taxpayer funded bailout so they can afford to pay their debts.
 
2013-03-18 02:52:30 PM  

monoski: tenpoundsofcheese: "because he negotiated it as part of his compensation and the board agreed with it after consulting with third party pay consultants" is a good answer.

Then the same argument would apply to the pilots, flight attendants et al. They all had contracts but guess what, the company ran out of money and defaulted on debt so why does one man get his slice of the pie and the rest get farked?


You must be angry at your Democrat overlords then. Country is in the crapper, but Obama can casually spend 1 million in taxpayer money to gold with Tiger Woods. Oh the double standards.....
 
2013-03-18 02:53:33 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Ctrl-Alt-Del: tenpoundsofcheese: Ctrl-Alt-Del: tenpoundsofcheese: Elandriel: Chapter 11 nulls all existing contracts

No, that is wrong.

It's close enough to correct that you look like an ass trying to argue against it

The term executory contract assumes a specialized meaning in some areas of law. In bankruptcy law, an executory contract is a contract in which continuing obligations exist on both sides of the contract. In this context, a trustee may assume or reject any executory contract or unexpired lease subject to court approval. [1] See e.g. 11 U.S.C. § 365.

And the contract was accepted when the merger was closed.
Now they want to re-negotiate it.

What was accepted or rejected during the merger is irrelevant to whether or not the trustee can, or does NULL the contract during the bankruptcy.

Wrong.  The contract was already assumed under the bankruptcy.


Except that, contrary to your initial assertion, this benefit was not part of that contract

"On Feb. 22, eight days after the merger was announced as the vehicle for AMR to exit from bankruptcy protection, the two airlines filed a motion outlining some salary and benefit increases  for AMR's nonunion customer-service, reservations and support employee, as well as for front-line management and senior executives. For the executives, the arrangements include incentive plans, awards related to the merger integration, severance benefits and a retention program. "

This severance was proposed just a few weeks ago,  as part of the merger.  So again - whether or not these benefits are accepted or rejected as part of the merger by the bankruptcy trustee who is overseeing the merger as part of the bankruptcy proceedings is irrelevant to the assumption or rejection of his contract by the trustee.
 
2013-03-18 02:54:23 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: DubtodaIll: Aside from allowing yourself to feel morally superior to someone who has been much more successful than you, what's the point of being outraged about the fiscal operations of a corporation? ...  The fact of it is it doesn't need to be justified, it's their money, they can do with it as they please, and they will.

Aside from you demonstrating a serious lack of understanding that airlines are among the most heavily-subsidized industries on the planet, what's the point of your post?  Airlines get subsidies, tax preferences, and the federal government handles their security at no cost to them, and they still manage to lose billions of dollars every year. The feeling I get when I watch them back a dumptruck full of money to the well-appointed home of yet another failed CEO is more than just "moral outrage," it's goddamn fury at watching an infrastructurally-crucial business that is heavily supported by my tax dollars being run like a private club that I have to pay for but am not allowed to join. And watching simps like you come in here with your grossly-uninformed-yet-still-somehow-patronizing "What's the big deal?" attitude isn't helping my blood pressure, either.


So what you're saying that if you deregulated the airlines and removed all subsidies they would have an easier time making money?
 
2013-03-18 02:56:12 PM  

Steven Cleamer: This guy doesn't deserve shiat.

Being the CEO for one of the largest companies around really isn't that hard. Any top level finance grad can pretty much do it.

And all CEO's should always be held solely responsible for the companies financial health, because there just aren't any other factors at play. Every dollar the company makes or loses is all based on personal decisions he makes.


Then you agree that every problem the US has is now solely Obama's responsibility since he has total power and doesn't have a congress (Board of Directors) or a fickle populous (shareholders) to deal with.

But then again with an unlimited source of bailout funds behind you via a Union backed political force, maybe it really is that easy.
 
2013-03-18 03:10:38 PM  

Thunderpipes: monoski: tenpoundsofcheese: "because he negotiated it as part of his compensation and the board agreed with it after consulting with third party pay consultants" is a good answer.

Then the same argument would apply to the pilots, flight attendants et al. They all had contracts but guess what, the company ran out of money and defaulted on debt so why does one man get his slice of the pie and the rest get farked?

You must be angry at your Democrat overlords then. Country is in the crapper, but Obama can casually spend 1 million in taxpayer money to gold with Tiger Woods. Oh the double standards.....


The point <-------------         --------------------------------->  Thunderderps

Ad hominem counter attacks in effort to prove your point is pretty on par with you.  Quite boring, really.
 
2013-03-18 03:16:42 PM  

ReverendJynxed: There are many companies out there that are non-union that have wonderful wages and benefits. But you have to be worth hiring and not some union schlep that sits around all day farking with time-clocks to get their extra minute of OT, etc. etc. Unions are unnecessary in this day and age when we have federal and state labor protection.


You sound like a happy little serf. Got any of those uplifting work songs you could serenade your betters with? :)
 
2013-03-18 03:19:02 PM  

DubtodaIll: So what you're saying that if you deregulated the airlines and removed all subsidies they would have an easier time making money?


No, what I'm saying is that if they really were a completely private company like you seem to believe, then I wouldn't give a flying handshake how they wasted their money. But they aren't, so I do.
 
2013-03-18 03:19:29 PM  

mizchief: That's kind of my point. To me, that was motivation not to be a blue-collar worker and go learn to do something valuable. If you have no ambition then a Union job is probably your best bet, just don't think that the Union bosses are out to help you as much as they are themselves.


This attitude is what is wrong with this country. It is the core of why unions are hated and management loved. It is why we are becoming a service industry focused nation with a vast wealth divide. A majority of people actually think that working on a manufacturing line or as a plumber or construction worker or many other blue collar jobs are "dirty" jobs that are beneath them. It is why college degrees are considered necessary for even the most menial of office jobs (though they are not) - and why college is no longer about education unless it is for job training.

Until every surgeon, engineer and CEO has the ability to build their own phones, sports cars, homes, and grow their own food - the mechanic, farmer, plumber and factory worker are just as valuable to society.
 
2013-03-18 03:20:09 PM  

JackieRabbit: Do you know how much work it is to bring a company to bankruptcy? Why these poor CEOs have to make multiple trips in their private jets to their fabulous Bermudan villas, attend board meetings, keep up with the latest trends in biz-speak, make bad decisions that they can later blame on a VP, write occasional nonsensical memos to staff, recommend trendy business books to senior management, attend three hour lunches, and make sure their assistant answers their email. It's brutal work, but these unsung heroes do it every day.


Interesting.  Sounds like a lot of senior military officers to me.

/Same shiat.  Those guys have the best "take care of our own" club around.
//Contractors make sure they hook up their soon to be retired officers with cush jobs
///Get all sorts of sweet deals while in the military, too.  The ultimate entitlement club, shall we say
 
2013-03-18 03:20:53 PM  

Thunderpipes: monoski: tenpoundsofcheese: "because he negotiated it as part of his compensation and the board agreed with it after consulting with third party pay consultants" is a good answer.

Then the same argument would apply to the pilots, flight attendants et al. They all had contracts but guess what, the company ran out of money and defaulted on debt so why does one man get his slice of the pie and the rest get farked?

You must be angry at your Democrat overlords then. Country is in the crapper, but Obama can casually spend 1 million in taxpayer money to gold with Tiger Woods. Oh the double standards.....


Sorry Thunder I am a registered Republican. With that said I get pissed at everybody regardless of party these days.
 
2013-03-18 03:32:25 PM  

ReverendJynxed: There are many companies out there that are non-union that have wonderful wages and benefits. But you have to be worth hiring and not some union schlep that sits around all day farking with time-clocks to get their extra minute of OT, etc. etc. Unions are unnecessary in this day and age when we have federal and state labor protection.

No one needs to go on strike because they have to pay 50 cents for a coffee in a vending machine. Well no one but unionized employees (Boeing) would dare say it affects their cost of living.


The companies offering a good wage only do so to compete with union waged salaries. Without them even those companies would lower wages to poverty levels (and beyond).

It's the nature of capitalism. Even if a company has a 'good heart' and wants to pay workers fairly, they'll be out competed by scumbag companies offering garbage wages.

As for being 'worth hiring', that's something the company has to work out with the Union. I'm guessing it usually means throwing out older workers who make a higher wage after working years in the company.

So long as corporations consider workers expendable resources, workers will need a counter force that's on their side (or go back to pretty much being slaves).
 
2013-03-18 03:34:13 PM  

Barricaded Gunman: DubtodaIll: So what you're saying that if you deregulated the airlines and removed all subsidies they would have an easier time making money?

No, what I'm saying is that if they really were a completely private company like you seem to believe, then I wouldn't give a flying handshake how they wasted their money. But they aren't, so I do.


I know they're not a completely private company, they're a corporation that has done everything possible to get as much money as possible with as few costs as possible.  Also, since corporations are rarely held to account for their mistakes by the government they have little to no motivation to actually act in the interests of anyone but themselves.  I'm not sure where people get the idea that corporations are at all moral or even that they should be.  The silly part is that the government continues to use tax-payer money to fund this ridiculous behavior and then not punish the corporations they're funding when they don't behave in a way that is beneficial to the taxpayer.  I'm not old enough to remember this magical American place where corporations treated their employees with respect and cared about delivering products above the expectations of its customers.  But I'm not that young to still think the world actually operates by the ideals you're raised to believe.  Best I can figure is to fight hard for yourself and those close to you and let those whom you never come in contact with do the same.
 
2013-03-18 03:34:48 PM  
blogs.courant.com

WHY DO YOU LIBRULS HATE CAPITALISM?

WHY DO YOU LIBRULS HATE AMERICA?


WHY?

WHY?????????
 
2013-03-18 03:57:49 PM  

hitlersbrain: ReverendJynxed: There are many companies out there that are non-union that have wonderful wages and benefits. But you have to be worth hiring and not some union schlep that sits around all day farking with time-clocks to get their extra minute of OT, etc. etc. Unions are unnecessary in this day and age when we have federal and state labor protection.

No one needs to go on strike because they have to pay 50 cents for a coffee in a vending machine. Well no one but unionized employees (Boeing) would dare say it affects their cost of living.

The companies offering a good wage only do so to compete with union waged salaries. Without them even those companies would lower wages to poverty levels (and beyond).

It's the nature of capitalism. Even if a company has a 'good heart' and wants to pay workers fairly, they'll be out competed by scumbag companies offering garbage wages.

As for being 'worth hiring', that's something the company has to work out with the Union. I'm guessing it usually means throwing out older workers who make a higher wage after working years in the company.

So long as corporations consider workers expendable resources, workers will need a counter force that's on their side (or go back to pretty much being slaves).


Yeah, the .1% of engineers who are unionized are the only thing that keeps the rest of us from being paid $2 per hour.

// Was actually in a unionized engineer job for a year.
// Would have never gone on strike.
 
2013-03-18 04:02:33 PM  

weltallica: [blogs.courant.com image 640x426]

WHY DO YOU LIBRULS HATE CAPITALISM?

WHY DO YOU LIBRULS HATE AMERICA?


WHY?

WHY?????????


Why can't that "REAL" American pointing at me put the fork down ?
 
2013-03-18 04:04:56 PM  
$20 Mil ?  Jeez!  Doesn't that guy make enough off donuts already?
 
2013-03-18 04:09:44 PM  

m00: mizchief: I think if I was an AA CEO I would just turn one of the big boys into a cruise ship in the sky.

Harder to land on the airstrip that comes with your private villa. I mean, with only 20 million dollar golden parachute money you're not going to become a billionaire and get to live on a private island with a full-sized private airport.

You have to really feel for these CEOs. At a measly 20 million dollars here and there, they're like the 99% of the 1%.


As CFO, Horton recieved a $200 million payout from At&T when it sold itself to Southwestern Bell.

He was already extremely wealthy before he came back to AA.
 
2013-03-18 04:16:06 PM  

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: BMFPitt: The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Don't like it? Don't fly AA then. Really not that complicated.

Don't you mean, "Don't like it? Retroactively don't loan money to AA, then."

Those ATSB grants/loans to the airline industry ended up turning something like a $200 million profit. And that was over ten years ago.

I don't understand people who kvetch constantly about stuff that really doesn't concern them.


AA received over $500 million in government money and had damage claims capped at $2 billion ( the max their insurers would pay).
 
2013-03-18 04:17:27 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: CeroX:

There ya go CEO, a company build on the backs of the employees and you "earned" your bonus... the same as everyone else...

Are you saying the current employees CEO built the company?  I didn't know the company was that new.  Looks like they he didn't do a very good job at building it since it is in bankruptcy.


FTFY
 
2013-03-18 04:21:24 PM  
"The salary of the chief executive of a large corporation is not a market award for achievement. It is frequently in the nature of a warm personal gesture by the individual to himself."

-- John Kenneth Galbraith
 
2013-03-18 04:22:20 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: tenpoundsofcheese: CeroX:

There ya go CEO, a company build on the backs of the employees and you "earned" your bonus... the same as everyone else...

Are you saying the current employees CEO built the company?  I didn't know the company was that new.  Looks like they he didn't do a very good job at building it since it is in bankruptcy.

FTFY


You believe anyone is saying that?
 
2013-03-18 04:26:01 PM  
Everybody is discounting the fact that he hit .341 over the season with 120 RBI and 42 HR.
 
2013-03-18 04:31:21 PM  

Thunderpipes: monoski: tenpoundsofcheese: "because he negotiated it as part of his compensation and the board agreed with it after consulting with third party pay consultants" is a good answer.

Then the same argument would apply to the pilots, flight attendants et al. They all had contracts but guess what, the company ran out of money and defaulted on debt so why does one man get his slice of the pie and the rest get farked?

You must be angry at your Democrat overlords then. Country is in the crapper, but Obama can casually spend 1 million in taxpayer money to gold with Tiger Woods. Oh the double standards.....


You have contributed nothing to the discussion and have only thrown out accusations for which you have no proof. What a worthless existence you must have. It's sad, really. All that anger could have been spent doing something constructive. Instead you just change the topic when presented with facts that exist outside of the pathetic little walls you have set up around your mind.
 
2013-03-18 04:32:40 PM  

limeyfellow: tenpoundsofcheese: "because he negotiated it as part of his compensation and the board agreed with it after consulting with third party pay consultants" is a good answer.

Which would probably pass muster, if they didn't all sit on each others boards and act as consultants for each other over what should be their pay and suitable compensation.


Yep. IIRC, some 80% of compensation committees decide that the CEO performed above average and should therefore get paid above the mean of the comparables. And that's on top of inflation in the selected comparables, picking larger, more complex companies that naturally pay their top execs more.
 
2013-03-18 04:45:44 PM  

Psylence: ReverendJynxed: There are many companies out there that are non-union that have wonderful wages and benefits. But you have to be worth hiring and not some union schlep that sits around all day farking with time-clocks to get their extra minute of OT, etc. etc. Unions are unnecessary in this day and age when we have federal and state labor protection.

You sound like a happy little serf. Got any of those uplifting work songs you could serenade your betters with? :)


A serf because I'm not ignorant? Ok. Serf it is.

I'm retired by the way, I just worked at great non-union companies.

/retired "serf"
//better than a mafia stooge losing my money to a racket
 
2013-03-18 04:46:49 PM  

hitlersbrain: ReverendJynxed: There are many companies out there that are non-union that have wonderful wages and benefits. But you have to be worth hiring and not some union schlep that sits around all day farking with time-clocks to get their extra minute of OT, etc. etc. Unions are unnecessary in this day and age when we have federal and state labor protection.

No one needs to go on strike because they have to pay 50 cents for a coffee in a vending machine. Well no one but unionized employees (Boeing) would dare say it affects their cost of living.

The companies offering a good wage only do so to compete with union waged salaries. Without them even those companies would lower wages to poverty levels (and beyond).

It's the nature of capitalism. Even if a company has a 'good heart' and wants to pay workers fairly, they'll be out competed by scumbag companies offering garbage wages.

As for being 'worth hiring', that's something the company has to work out with the Union. I'm guessing it usually means throwing out older workers who make a higher wage after working years in the company.

So long as corporations consider workers expendable resources, workers will need a counter force that's on their side (or go back to pretty much being slaves).


Except... LAWS.
 
2013-03-18 04:49:11 PM  

kindms: weltallica: [blogs.courant.com image 640x426]

WHY DO YOU LIBRULS HATE CAPITALISM?

WHY DO YOU LIBRULS HATE AMERICA?


WHY?

WHY?????????

Why can't that "REAL" American pointing at me put the fork down ?


That real american is keeping people working. Someone has to feed the behemoths and that is a full time job for many. That's a job creator right there.
 
2013-03-18 04:49:56 PM  

ReverendJynxed: kindms: weltallica: [blogs.courant.com image 640x426]

WHY DO YOU LIBRULS HATE CAPITALISM?

WHY DO YOU LIBRULS HATE AMERICA?


WHY?

WHY?????????

Why can't that "REAL" American pointing at me put the fork down ?

That real a

American is keeping people working. Someone has to feed the behemoths and that is a full time job for many. That's a job creator right there.

/FTFM
 
2013-03-18 04:54:06 PM  
You jokers need to write a sternly worded tablet to Pharaoh.
 
2013-03-18 04:58:21 PM  

hitlersbrain: Even if a company has a 'good heart' and wants to pay workers fairly, they'll be out competed by scumbag companies offering garbage wages.


The example of Costco and also of SAS say otherwise.
 
2013-03-18 05:04:43 PM  

BMFPitt: machodonkeywrestler: tenpoundsofcheese: CeroX:

There ya go CEO, a company build on the backs of the employees and you "earned" your bonus... the same as everyone else...

Are you saying the current employees CEO built the company?  I didn't know the company was that new.  Looks like they he didn't do a very good job at building it since it is in bankruptcy.

FTFY

You believe anyone is saying that?


It's as valid as 10lbs comparison.
 
2013-03-18 05:24:52 PM  

ZAZ: Bankruptcy court is not bound by prior negotiations, contracts, solemn vows, or even the opinion of pay consultants.


So, basically, looking through the Supreme Court's history of rulings on contract law, contracts are sacrosanct...until you're in bankruptcy, then all bets are off.
 
2013-03-18 05:31:49 PM  

sodomizer: "so they don't get sued" is a great answer

I realize all the grubby proles out there hate this, because $20m is more than they'll ever see. However, if you look at history, the solution to wealth inequality is not to go after the rich, it's to reduce the number of poor.


The velocity of money would like a word with you.
 
2013-03-18 05:34:37 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: BMFPitt: machodonkeywrestler: tenpoundsofcheese: CeroX:

There ya go CEO, a company build on the backs of the employees and you "earned" your bonus... the same as everyone else...

Are you saying the current employees CEO built the company?  I didn't know the company was that new.  Looks like they he didn't do a very good job at building it since it is in bankruptcy.

FTFY

You believe anyone is saying that?

It's as valid as 10lbs comparison.


His "comparison" was plainly sarcastic. Whereas you seem to actually believe that there are actual people who think the CEO in question built the company.
 
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