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(Talking Points Memo)   Paul Wolfowitz admits that the US failed in Iraq but denies he orchestrated the war; that was all Bush's idea   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 192
    More: Followup, Paul Wolfowitz, Iraq, United States Deputy Secretary of Defense, troop surge, invasion of Iraq  
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1961 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Mar 2013 at 10:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-18 08:36:27 AM
"spiralled out of countrol"

Just like everyone said it would, like these things always do?
 
2013-03-18 09:02:57 AM
Douglas Feith said the same lies

Problem is, Wolfowitz (and Perle) was introduced to Chalabi by neoconservative Albert Wohlstetter way back in 1985. and Wolfowitz wrote out the "Defense Planning Guidance" paper that was supposed to be secret, but got out in 1992 ... way back when George W Bush was getting wild and doing bumps of coke.

Wolfowitz in 1996 said that "Saddam is a convicted killer still in posession of a loaded gun -- and its pointed at us."  He argues that the only way to get rid of the danger was to go beyond the containment strategy and confront Saddam once and for all

Wolfowitz in 1997 call for the U.S. to overthrow Saddam Hussein in the Washington Post

Wolfowitz in 1998, was a signatory to the PNAC  open letter to Bill Clinton , advising that U.S. military action to oust Saddam Hussein from power is "the only acceptable strategy" for Iraq.

Wolfowitz in 1998, among other neocons in the Committee for Peace and Security in the Gulf says that Iraq has 
chemical and biological weapons and has no intention of giving them up.  The paper argues that the U.S. must use military force to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Wolfowitz in 1998 -- In a Foreign Affairs leffer to the Eds,the wrote that the US should be prepared to commit 
ground forces to protect a sanctuary in southern Iraq where opposition groups could mobilize.

That should be enough to stop this revisionist bullshiat.
 
2013-03-18 09:06:14 AM
Hey, are the Iraqi people better off today than they were under Saddam?  The ones that survived that is...
 
2013-03-18 09:23:16 AM
Republicans are all about personal responsibility.
 
2013-03-18 09:24:05 AM

people: Douglas Feith said the same lies

Problem is, Wolfowitz (and Perle) was introduced to Chalabi by neoconservative Albert Wohlstetter way back in 1985. and Wolfowitz wrote out the "Defense Planning Guidance" paper that was supposed to be secret, but got out in 1992 ... way back when George W Bush was getting wild and doing bumps of coke.

Wolfowitz in 1996 said that "Saddam is a convicted killer still in posession of a loaded gun -- and its pointed at us."  He argues that the only way to get rid of the danger was to go beyond the containment strategy and confront Saddam once and for all

Wolfowitz in 1997 call for the U.S. to overthrow Saddam Hussein in the Washington Post

Wolfowitz in 1998, was a signatory to the PNAC  open letter to Bill Clinton , advising that U.S. military action to oust Saddam Hussein from power is "the only acceptable strategy" for Iraq.

Wolfowitz in 1998, among other neocons in the Committee for Peace and Security in the Gulf says that Iraq has
chemical and biological weapons and has no intention of giving them up.  The paper argues that the U.S. must use military force to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Wolfowitz in 1998 -- In a Foreign Affairs leffer to the Eds,the wrote that the US should be prepared to commit
ground forces to protect a sanctuary in southern Iraq where opposition groups could mobilize.

That should be enough to stop this revisionist bullshiat.


Too bad its not enough to be indicting all of the above. If nothing else, some of the families of the war veterans ought to start a nice big civil lawsuit, get discovery of documents going. Wonder what else these assnuggets have squirrelled away for their next round of "Israeli Foreign Policy for America" plans
 
2013-03-18 09:42:29 AM

Generation_D: Too bad its not enough to be indicting all of the above. If nothing else, some of the families of the war veterans ought to start a nice big civil lawsuit, get discovery of documents going. Wonder what else these assnuggets have squirrelled away for their next round of "Israeli Foreign Policy for America" plans


Sue em.  I like it.
 
2013-03-18 09:55:12 AM
He can try to squirm out of it now, but his place in history is set.
 
2013-03-18 10:23:08 AM
Well the war wasn't conducted according to his plan, it must have been Dubya's plan. 
Dubya:  The planes come in and boom, boom, boom and rrrrrr, zing boom and tanks rrrrrr, bang, zirrrr boo....Saddam running down the street and HELICOPTER with missles, zurrrr boom. Pew, pew boom....
 
2013-03-18 10:24:52 AM
They were all so proud of themselves at the time, what happened?

Now nobody knows anything, and they're all sure it was someone else making all of these decisions.
 
2013-03-18 10:25:59 AM
Every informed American knows Barack Hussein Obama started the Iraq war. More libtard revisionism. Pathetic.
 
2013-03-18 10:26:16 AM
That's right Wolfie.  Thousands of people are dead because Bush wanted to play tough guy and you assholes enabled him to do it.

Burn in Hell, scumwad.
 
2013-03-18 10:26:42 AM
Just finished reading "Armageddon: A Novel of Berlin".  We were planning on how to manage Germany well before we actually took over any German cities.  It seems that going into Iraq was followed by all these neocons sitting around a table and saying "wait, we have to feed/clothe/govern them now?"
 
2013-03-18 10:27:11 AM
"All Bush's idea?"

That is downright laughable, because it implies that Bush has ever had an idea.

/Met him
//Yes, he really is that dumb
 
2013-03-18 10:29:53 AM
Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.
 
2013-03-18 10:31:24 AM

people: Douglas Feith said the same lies

Problem is, Wolfowitz (and Perle) was introduced to Chalabi by neoconservative Albert Wohlstetter way back in 1985. and Wolfowitz wrote out the "Defense Planning Guidance" paper that was supposed to be secret, but got out in 1992 ... way back when George W Bush was getting wild and doing bumps of coke.

Wolfowitz in 1996 said that "Saddam is a convicted killer still in posession of a loaded gun -- and its pointed at us."  He argues that the only way to get rid of the danger was to go beyond the containment strategy and confront Saddam once and for all

Wolfowitz in 1997 call for the U.S. to overthrow Saddam Hussein in the Washington Post

Wolfowitz in 1998, was a signatory to the PNAC  open letter to Bill Clinton , advising that U.S. military action to oust Saddam Hussein from power is "the only acceptable strategy" for Iraq.

Wolfowitz in 1998, among other neocons in the Committee for Peace and Security in the Gulf says that Iraq has
chemical and biological weapons and has no intention of giving them up.  The paper argues that the U.S. must use military force to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Wolfowitz in 1998 -- In a Foreign Affairs leffer to the Eds,the wrote that the US should be prepared to commit
ground forces to protect a sanctuary in southern Iraq where opposition groups could mobilize.

That should be enough to stop this revisionist bullshiat.


Dont forget this one:

The Office of Special Plans (OSP), which existed from September 2002 to June 2003, was a Pentagon unit created by Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, and headed by Feith, as charged by then-United States Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, to supply senior George W. Bush administration officials with raw intelligence (unvetted by intelligence analysts, see Stovepiping) pertaining to Iraq. A similar unit, called the Iranian Directorate, was created several years later, in 2006, to deal with intelligence on Iran.

Basically Wolfowitz was partly responsible for creating the false intelligence that lead to the Iraq war, and was ready to do the same thing for Iran. And there was Iraqi leadership Wolfowitz, in the form the Baath party and the Iraqi military, and you guys fired the all. It was the same damn day that the military was disbanded that the first roadside bomb casualties came in. And I'm sure this jackass would gladly get us in another war if he had the chance, he hasn't gained any humility after farking up Iraq.
 
2013-03-18 10:34:43 AM
25 million people freed from a brutal dictator.

You'd declare Obama president of the world if he accomplished that.

As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-18 10:35:02 AM
Gwyrddu:

Basically Wolfowitz was partly responsible for creating the false intelligence that lead to the Iraq war, and was ready to do the same thing for Iran. And there was Iraqi leadership Wolfowitz, in the form the Baath party and the Iraqi military, and you guys fired the all. It was the same damn day that the military was disbanded that the first roadside bomb casualties came in. And I'm sure this jackass would gladly get us in another war if he had the chance, he hasn't gained any humility after farking up Iraq.

Well, it didn't cost him anything, just little people.
 
2013-03-18 10:37:35 AM

randomjsa: How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?


www.andyworthington.co.uk
 
2013-03-18 10:37:46 AM

randomjsa: As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?


Uhhh, ask Paul Wolfowitz? He might not want to talk about torture though.

And how many other nations do you propose we invade for similar crimes?
 
2013-03-18 10:39:41 AM
When does Mel Gibson get his apology?
 
2013-03-18 10:41:24 AM

randomjsa: How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?


upload.wikimedia.org

"Thank you, President Bush!"
 
2013-03-18 10:44:32 AM

What a f*cking dickhair.


Link.

 
2013-03-18 10:45:20 AM

NateGrey: Republicans are all about personal responsibility.


Hey, don't forget champion of personal responsibility, George "Slam Dunk" Tenet.
 
2013-03-18 10:48:14 AM

randomjsa: As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?


Now they can be raped, tortured and mutilated in the streets by anybody!
 
2013-03-18 10:57:46 AM

randomjsa: 25 million people freed from a brutal dictator.


Wasn't the reason given for going to war.  Congress wouldn't give authorization for based on that as the justification for war.

You'd declare Obama president of the world if he accomplished that.

False.

As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?

Totally irrelevant.  That doesn't give justification for going to war especially given the allies of the US in the region.
 
2013-03-18 10:57:52 AM
This guy walks free while Bradley Manning is in jail.
 
2013-03-18 10:59:37 AM

Lord_Baull: randomjsa: As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?

Now they can be raped, tortured and mutilated in the streets by anybody!


I wonder if he supposes the peasants no longer subjected to the Czar's oppression consider the October Revolution a success.
 
2013-03-18 11:00:03 AM
blaming the meat puppet (bush jr)?????

now i KNOW the fella is lieing
 
2013-03-18 11:00:13 AM

randomjsa: How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?


farm1.static.flickr.com

Thanks, Obama!

dalje.com

Thanks, Obama!

www.drugwar101.com

Thanks, Obama!

www.drugwar101.com

Thanks, Obama!

More NSFW
 
2013-03-18 11:01:43 AM
Since he'd been planning the Iraqi war for more than a decade with the rest of his neocon buddies, you'd think a better plan would've been developed beyond "hey, let's try and find a massive national tragedy to obfuscate the reasons for going to Iraq while using just enough bad intelligence to scare the populace about nuclear weapons."
 
2013-03-18 11:01:43 AM

randomjsa: 25 million people freed from a brutal dictator.

You'd declare Obama president of the world if he accomplished that.

As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?


Those are the reasons the administration -should- have used, but somebody in the brain trust figured a straighforward "hey, let's not have the batshiat genocidal monster sitting on all that oil, and maybe 25 million people won't have to live under a boot, which would be nice" wasn't enough of a sales pitch so they came up with the scary WMD angle.

Which is like hauling in Jeffrey Dahmer on a health-code violation because he put the body parts in his fridge above the vegetable bin without using the appropriate drip-prevention containers.
 
2013-03-18 11:01:47 AM

HotWingConspiracy: They were all so proud of themselves at the time, what happened?

Now nobody knows anything, and they're all sure it was someone else making all of these decisions.


The Passive Voice Phantom strikes again!

Decisions were undertaken.  Mistakes were made.  Discoveries were had.  People were held accountable.  You were not informed and that was regrettable.  Fortunately, lessons were learned and those lessons make us stronger.  All of us.  You and me.  We're in this together.  Let us hope this kind of grievous error is never seen again.
 
2013-03-18 11:02:10 AM
"The most consequential failure was to understand the tenacity of Saddam's regime."

Right....failing to understand the make up of the populace and failing to plan ahead for post war Iraq aren't factors worth mentioning.
 
2013-03-18 11:07:30 AM

people: Generation_D: Too bad its not enough to be indicting all of the above. If nothing else, some of the families of the war veterans ought to start a nice big civil lawsuit, get discovery of documents going. Wonder what else these assnuggets have squirrelled away for their next round of "Israeli Foreign Policy for America" plans

Sue em.  I like it.


In his book, Vincent Bugliosi suggested we prosecute Bush for murder. I saw Mr. Bugliosi speak when he was on his book tour. He said he wouldn't rest until Bush was tried for murder. Given Mr. Bugliosi's record (105 of 106), if I were Bush, I'd be worried.
 
2013-03-18 11:09:21 AM

randomjsa: 25 million people freed from a brutal dictator.

You'd declare Obama president of the world if he accomplished that.

As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?


We could ask them, but a lot if them are probably dead.
 
2013-03-18 11:12:02 AM
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condi, Wolfowicz, Feith, Woo (Torture memo), Tenet and Bolton should all be held accountable. Aided and abetted by Krauthammer, Morris, Novak, and the entire staff at Fox News.
 
2013-03-18 11:12:44 AM
The Bush doctrine was originally the Wolfowitz doctrine.

You can read about this doctrine that called for pre-emptive wars to stop other super powers from emerging here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine

As far as spiraling out of control and not prosecuting the war like Wolfowitz wanted it, here's what Deputy SECRETARY OF DEFENSE Paul Wolfowitz had to say about ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF SHINSEKI'S troop requirements to take and hold Iraq:

In February 2003, just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Army Gen. Eric Shinseki told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the U.S. would need "several hundred thousand soldiers" to secure Iraq. Two days later, then-deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz dismissed Shinseki's prediction saying it was "wildly off the mark."

So Wolfowitz was a head of the Defense Department, rejected the Army chief's troop requirements, allowed the stand-down of the Iraqi armed forces and now wantS to claim the war wasn't prosecuted the way he wanted it.

Wolfowitz is a lying war criminal. He invaded Iraq and sought to control Iraqi oil. The only building secured in Bagdad was the oil ministry building.

WOLFOWITZ. IS. A. LYING. WAR. CRIMINAL.

Thousands and thousands of Americans, Iraqis and other nationalities haves suffered death and injury due to Wolfowitz's lies.

WOLFOWITZ. IS. A. LYING. WAR. CRIMINAL.
 
2013-03-18 11:14:45 AM

jtrockville: people: Generation_D: Too bad its not enough to be indicting all of the above. If nothing else, some of the families of the war veterans ought to start a nice big civil lawsuit, get discovery of documents going. Wonder what else these assnuggets have squirrelled away for their next round of "Israeli Foreign Policy for America" plans

Sue em.  I like it.

In his book, Vincent Bugliosi suggested we prosecute Bush for murder. I saw Mr. Bugliosi speak when he was on his book tour. He said he wouldn't rest until Bush was tried for murder. Given Mr. Bugliosi's record (105 of 106), if I were Bush, I'd be worried.


Yeah, I'd like to think this has a chance, but a blowhard ex prosecutor on a book tour is hardly the start of a groundswell of legal consensus. Or is it.

Bush really wasn't the guilty party, he really was more the cheerleader. Just like his days at Yale. Cheney will die before any legal action can happen that matters; he'll pull a Casey if he has to. The rest of them should be prosecuted but I am highly skeptical.
 
2013-03-18 11:15:56 AM
One thing Wolfowitz was correct about. General Shinseki was wildly off the mark on troop requirements for Iraq.

We put 1.5 million military personnel into Iraq. Not the several hundred thousand Shinseki recommended.

Good catch, Wolfie. You get a Oak Leaf Cluster for your Broze Todtenkopf.
 
2013-03-18 11:16:12 AM
NEXT:  David Addington writes an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal entitled "OOPS.... My Bad".
 
2013-03-18 11:19:43 AM
Well if you follow the money it might lead you to think it was Cheney's idea. But following the money is stupid.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-18 11:20:40 AM
randomjsa:
As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?

Wasn't the "rape rooms" thing debunked?   But I am sure that the shiates who aren't in prison being tortured are glad that the Sunnis have taken their place in the new police state.
 
2013-03-18 11:21:17 AM

Generation_D: ...Yeah, I'd like to think this has a chance, but a blowhard ex prosecutor on a book tour is hardly the start of a groundswell of legal consensus. Or is it.

Bush really wasn't the guilty party, he really was more the cheerleader. Just like his days at Yale. Cheney will die before any legal action can happen that matters; he'll pull a Casey if he has to. The rest of them should be prosecuted but I am highly skeptical.


I've got a healthy dose of skepticism too, but I still think it's in the realm of possibilities. Ditto for the two Spanish cases:  http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/spanish-investigation-us - torture
 
2013-03-18 11:23:20 AM

TheShavingofOccam123: The Bush doctrine was originally the Wolfowitz doctrine.

You can read about this doctrine that called for pre-emptive wars to stop other super powers from emerging here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine

As far as spiraling out of control and not prosecuting the war like Wolfowitz wanted it, here's what Deputy SECRETARY OF DEFENSE Paul Wolfowitz had to say about ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF SHINSEKI'S troop requirements to take and hold Iraq:

In February 2003, just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Army Gen. Eric Shinseki told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the U.S. would need "several hundred thousand soldiers" to secure Iraq. Two days later, then-deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz dismissed Shinseki's prediction saying it was "wildly off the mark."


I saw him say this live on TV:

"It's hard to conceive that it would take more forces to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq than it would to take to conduct the war itself and secure the surrender of Saddam's security forces and his army. Hard to imagine."

I knew right then we were royally farked instead of just regular farked.
 
2013-03-18 11:24:56 AM

bulldg4life: Since he'd been planning the Iraqi war for more than a decade with the rest of his neocon buddies, you'd think a better plan would've been developed beyond "hey, let's try and find a massive national tragedy to obfuscate the reasons for going to Iraq while using just enough bad intelligence to scare the populace about nuclear weapons."


The 2nd Gulf War was going to happen pretty much the way it was scripted to.  The 9/11 Attacks were
incidental to their plan to lie about Saddam having WMDs and use that to sell the war to the American
people.

It wasn't about oil, or power in the Middle East.  It was about the whackadoos in the GOP taking 'revenge'
on the moderates who didn't 'get the job done' in the 1st Gulf War.
 
2013-03-18 11:27:10 AM

randomjsa: 25 million people freed from a brutal dictator.

You'd declare Obama president of the world if he accomplished that.

As I've asked a hundred times, do you suppose the teenage girls no longer subjected to Saddam's sons rape rooms consider the operation a success? How about the people who aren't sitting in prisons being tortured and mutilated?


This goes in the "moving the goal posts" category.
 
2013-03-18 11:30:09 AM

TheShavingofOccam123: One thing Wolfowitz was correct about. General Shinseki was wildly off the mark on troop requirements for Iraq.

We put 1.5 million military personnel into Iraq. Not the several hundred thousand Shinseki recommended.

Good catch, Wolfie. You get a Oak Leaf Cluster for your Broze Todtenkopf.


This might be my favorite Godwin.

Some relevant funny.
 
2013-03-18 11:31:30 AM

Generation_D: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condi, Wolfowicz, Feith, Woo (Torture memo), Tenet and Bolton should all be held accountable. Aided and abetted by Krauthammer, Morris, Novak, and the entire staff at Fox News.


Hey! You left out Geoffrey D. Miller.

upload.wikimedia.org

This is the guy who was so good at implementing torture at Gitmo that Cheney and Rummy had him transferred to the Iraq theatre. He reported directly to the White House and the Pentagon. That's how so many National Guard and regular Army personnel had no idea what was going on at Abu Ghraib and throughout the Iraqi prison system. This includes General Sanchez who never authorized the types of torture General Miller implemented throughout Iraqi prisons.

Geoffrey D. Miller wasn't foced to retire. Unlike Generals Taguba and Sanchez. I guess it was his pinkish hue.

General Taguba:

In 2004, Taguba was assigned to report on abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. In May of that year, he published an extremely critical report that was leaked to the public.[10] Later that month, Major General Taguba was reassigned to the Pentagon to serve as deputy assistant secretary of defense for readiness, training and mobilization in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs.[9] Describing his thoughts upon being informed by John Abizaid a few weeks after the leak that he and his report would be investigated, Taguba said "I'd been in the Army thirty-two years by then, and it was the first time that I thought I was in the Mafia."[10]

In January 2006, General Richard A. Cody, the Army's Vice-Chief of Staff, instructed Taguba to retire by the following January. No official explanation was given; Taguba himself believes his forced retirement was ordered by civilian Pentagon officials in retaliation for his report on abuse of prisoners.[10] Taguba's retirement, effective January 1, 2007, ended a 34-year career of military service.[7]

General Sanchez:

In June 2004, Lieutenant General Sanchez relinquished command of the Multi-National Force Iraq (MNF-I) to General George Casey, Vice Chief of Staff of the Army. Sanchez returned to Germany where he continued as Commanding General, V Corps.

"The Abu Ghraib prison scandal is) the key reason, the sole reason, that I was forced to retire. I was essentially not offered another position in either a three-star or four-star command."

The strength of the pinkish hue and the camaraderie of criminals are very powerful protections.
 
2013-03-18 11:32:39 AM

HotWingConspiracy: They were all so proud of themselves at the time, what happened?

Now nobody knows anything, and they're all sure it was someone else making all of these decisions.


You know what happened, you libtards elected a Black Democrat as President. He turned Iraq and Afghanistan from a shining success of small almost costless war into a quagmire of deficit (by stopping the shadow accounting that was going on and putting the true cost of the wars on the books), blood (by believing that the surge would do anything other then delay the inevitable) , and loss (by not declaring on day one of his presidency that we were leaving both Iraq and Afghanistan in 90 days).
 
2013-03-18 11:36:13 AM

SixPaperJoint: TheShavingofOccam123: One thing Wolfowitz was correct about. General Shinseki was wildly off the mark on troop requirements for Iraq.

We put 1.5 million military personnel into Iraq. Not the several hundred thousand Shinseki recommended.

Good catch, Wolfie. You get a Oak Leaf Cluster for your Broze Todtenkopf.

This might be my favorite Godwin.

Some relevant funny.


Too soon? I was going to say Silver Todtenkopf but I pulled back. Then I misspelled Bronze. Dammit.

I love That Mitchell and Webb Look. I liked seeing that scene.

/Rat's Anus might have been more appropriate decoration for the Bush baddies.
 
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