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(Barron's)   Carnival Cruise Lines says it will spend double on repairs in 2013. Of course, anyone doing the math knows that two times nothing is still nothing   (blogs.barrons.com) divider line 60
    More: Followup, St. Maarten, capital expenditures, return on equity, Carnival Cruise Lines, fairs, operating margin, chief financial officers  
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829 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Mar 2013 at 10:33 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 08:37:13 AM
Billy Preston agrees.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-18 09:06:47 AM
I wonder what's really going on.  I don't quite understand how a single "backup generator" can take out the entire power supply of a ship with six main generators.
 
2013-03-18 09:13:49 AM
Bagdad Bob got a job working for Carnival.
 
2013-03-18 10:30:49 AM
Carnival needs a miracle. (NSFW)
 
2013-03-18 10:36:18 AM

vpb: I wonder what's really going on.  I don't quite understand how a single "backup generator" can take out the entire power supply of a ship with six main generators.


From what I understand, all power was routed through one main bus.  The backup generator took out the main bus when it went.  So it didn't matter how many other generators were working as they could not route power.
 
2013-03-18 11:30:30 AM
I wonder how low this will drop their prices for cruises.  You'd think they'd be having a ton of specials.  I'm not a fan of cruises in general and Carnival specifically.
 
2013-03-18 11:56:37 AM

wingnut396: vpb: I wonder what's really going on.  I don't quite understand how a single "backup generator" can take out the entire power supply of a ship with six main generators.

From what I understand, all power was routed through one main bus.  The backup generator took out the main bus when it went.  So it didn't matter how many other generators were working as they could not route power.


couldn't they just route power through the secondaries and send someone into the Jefferies tubes to fix the mains?
 
2013-03-18 11:57:39 AM
I was on a Carnival cruise two years ago and one of the props went down causing us to miss the stop at Cozumel and thus my tour of Chichen Itza (the only reason I agreed to go on the cruise in the first place).  On the plus side we got some money back and a free all you can drink happy hour.

/I'll never use Carnival again
//Ever
 
2013-03-18 12:28:34 PM
Yea, I think they've done a great job of buggering up their reputation... We're discussing a cruise later this year, we all immediately said it can't be carnival
 
2013-03-18 12:42:54 PM

Cheron: wingnut396: vpb: I wonder what's really going on.  I don't quite understand how a single "backup generator" can take out the entire power supply of a ship with six main generators.

From what I understand, all power was routed through one main bus.  The backup generator took out the main bus when it went.  So it didn't matter how many other generators were working as they could not route power.

couldn't they just route power through the secondaries and send someone into the Jefferies tubes to fix the mains?


Yeah right!  And risk a confabulator failure?
 
2013-03-18 12:46:38 PM
The whole Poopmazing Crapcations ad campaign was in bad taste.
 
2013-03-18 12:57:14 PM

natewill: Cheron: wingnut396: vpb: I wonder what's really going on.  I don't quite understand how a single "backup generator" can take out the entire power supply of a ship with six main generators.

From what I understand, all power was routed through one main bus.  The backup generator took out the main bus when it went.  So it didn't matter how many other generators were working as they could not route power.

couldn't they just route power through the secondaries and send someone into the Jefferies tubes to fix the mains?

Yeah right!  And risk a confabulator failure?


Pfft. You use an inverse tachyon beam to contain it. Noob.


As for Carnival, they've just been having too many maintenance issues lately. It wasn't that long ago the Splendor went dark and had to be towed in, then the Triumph. Now the Dream. It makes me wonder if they even do any preventative maintenance in a competent manner. They should have been going all out to make sure this didn't happen again before even the Triumph. This is something like the third or fourth major issue they've had in the last three years (and 2013 still has that new year smell to it). That's a pretty shiatty record. I know they're cheap, I just can't imagine risking my vacation with them.
 
2013-03-18 01:00:31 PM

akula: natewill: Cheron: wingnut396: vpb: I wonder what's really going on.  I don't quite understand how a single "backup generator" can take out the entire power supply of a ship with six main generators.

From what I understand, all power was routed through one main bus.  The backup generator took out the main bus when it went.  So it didn't matter how many other generators were working as they could not route power.

couldn't they just route power through the secondaries and send someone into the Jefferies tubes to fix the mains?

Yeah right!  And risk a confabulator failure?

Pfft. You use an inverse tachyon beam to contain it. Noob.


As for Carnival, they've just been having too many maintenance issues lately. It wasn't that long ago the Splendor went dark and had to be towed in, then the Triumph. Now the Dream. It makes me wonder if they even do any preventative maintenance in a competent manner. They should have been going all out to make sure this didn't happen again before even the Triumph. This is something like the third or fourth major issue they've had in the last three years (and 2013 still has that new year smell to it). That's a pretty shiatty record. I know they're cheap, I just can't imagine risking my vacation with them.


That many failures that quickly almost will make me think it's sabotage, rather than simple failures.  I'm guessing they hire for as little money as possible, and treat their crew like crap.  I'm willing to bet that if you look deeper, you'll find crew discontent behind this.
 
2013-03-18 01:05:31 PM
Its a circus I tells ya'
 
2013-03-18 01:07:49 PM
Poop cruise lines spending double on poop?
 
2013-03-18 01:14:12 PM

devildog123: That many failures that quickly almost will make me think it's sabotage, rather than simple failures.  I'm guessing they hire for as little money as possible, and treat their crew like crap.  I'm willing to bet that if you look deeper, you'll find crew discontent behind this.


Dunno. I think the Splendor wasn't so much a mechanical failure as much as it was incompetent welding starting a fire, but the end result was the same.

Even if it's sabotage and not run of the mill mechanical problems it's a good clue to steer clear of them. I doubt that it is though; the folks on the Triumph reported great service even as everything went to hell. I'd not expect that if the people are pissed enough to cause mayhem (but then, the people working on the hotel end of the ship might have different feelings than the engine room crew).

I just can't think of any reasonable explanation for all this mechanical trouble that doesn't have at its root a systemic trouble with the cruise line and their attitudes toward either the machinery or the people.
 
2013-03-18 01:14:26 PM

wingnut396: vpb: I wonder what's really going on.  I don't quite understand how a single "backup generator" can take out the entire power supply of a ship with six main generators.

From what I understand, all power was routed through one main bus.  The backup generator took out the main bus when it went.  So it didn't matter how many other generators were working as they could not route power.


I do survivability analysis for the Navy, so I'm pretty familiar with shipboard power systems that are done right. You have to remember that these generators, even the backup generators, are huge output affairs. 4 Phase, hundreds of volts, you have to synchronize the motion of all of the alternators so they are in the same phase, etc. It's power company grade electrical engineering.

Everything on the system has an isolator, for big wattage items a bus tie breaker.

From the sounds of this though, the ship never actually lost power. Because the backup generator wasn't working, they decided not to leave port. And there was some ancillary disruptions to the elevator system and a few of the toilets. But no power outage. (They were at the dock, and could tie into shore power, worst case.)
 
2013-03-18 01:15:50 PM
CARNIVAL! : Not only do our ships break down with alarming regularity, but if it happens while in port we will refuse to let you off the ship anyway!
 
2013-03-18 01:21:47 PM
devildog123:
That many failures that quickly almost will make me think it's sabotage, rather than simple failures.  I'm guessing they hire for as little money as possible, and treat their crew like crap.  I'm willing to bet that if you look deeper, you'll find crew discontent behind this.

Nah. It's better explained by deferred maintenance. All of these ships are the same class, and roughly the same age. They'll start breaking down at about the same time. And generally, the hardest used parts of a ship are the ones that break the most often.

Combine that with the highly automated system installed on modern vessels, and you don't need crew to sabotage the system. The system will sabotage itself. "Smart systems" are designed to operate with shiny and new components. If something goes out of spec, they system will throw itself into a tantrum. And since the crews operating on ships aren't given a lot of repair training (basic maintenance is done on shore), and even if they were, the components aren't designed to be serviced at sea, often a chief engineer can only call for a tugboat.

Assuming he has power for the satellite phone.
 
2013-03-18 01:26:35 PM

slayer199: I wonder how low this will drop their prices for cruises.  You'd think they'd be having a ton of specials.  I'm not a fan of cruises in general and Carnival specifically.


Until they get the smell out, the shiat Stink Special will be in force.
 
2013-03-18 01:27:17 PM
i.perezhilton.com

 This business will get out of control! It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it!
 
2013-03-18 01:49:03 PM
Anyone want to bet most of the $600 million budgeted for maintenance last year went into someone's bank during a stopover in Cayman?
 
2013-03-18 01:51:10 PM

wambu: Carnival needs a miracle. (NSFW)


I'm not sure what that was, but I'm ok with it.
 
2013-03-18 01:55:53 PM

devildog123: That many failures that quickly almost will make me think it's sabotage, rather than simple failures. I'm guessing they hire for as little money as possible, and treat their crew like crap. I'm willing to bet that if you look deeper, you'll find crew discontent behind this.


...Or maybe when you hire boat mechanics for "as little money as possible," you don't get the best quality of work.  I've said this in other threads on this topic---I don't think it's sabotage, and I'd be very surprised if that turns out to be the case.  It's so much more likely that cutting corners on maintenance to save money is the real culprit here.
 
2013-03-18 01:58:37 PM

AcneVulgaris: Until they get the smell out, the shiat Stink Special will be in force.


I just checked online.  7 day Caribbean cruise in May on their biggest/newest ship for under $500.  That's pretty cheap.  In light of their poor reputation, it makes sense that they'd make them very inexpensive.
 
2013-03-18 02:09:57 PM

slayer199: AcneVulgaris: Until they get the smell out, the shiat Stink Special will be in force.

I just checked online.  7 day Caribbean cruise in May on their biggest/newest ship for under $500.  That's pretty cheap.  In light of their poor reputation, it makes sense that they'd make them very inexpensive.


"Pretty cheap?" It's damn near free. Compare that to a 7 day cruise on the Disney Fantasy, which in the same time frame is over three times as much per person.

But then, the risk of needing to be towed back home is rather higher on the Carnival cruise.
 
2013-03-18 02:43:58 PM
For better PR, they really need to bring back Manuel Bol.
 
2013-03-18 03:00:13 PM

akula: But then, the risk of needing to be towed back home is rather higher on the Carnival cruise.


I didn't compare prices...I guess you get Mickey Mouse or you get to sleep on the poop deck for 1/3 the price.
 
2013-03-18 03:24:32 PM
F carnival. You get EXACTLY what you pay for on there, we'll we did anyways.

If you want to actually enjoy and relax on the cruise try Holland America, or Royal Caribbean. My wife and I noticed night and day type differences in staff, services, and attention to detail.
 
2013-03-18 04:31:33 PM

wingnut396: vpb: I wonder what's really going on.  I don't quite understand how a single "backup generator" can take out the entire power supply of a ship with six main generators.

From what I understand, all power was routed through one main bus.  The backup generator took out the main bus when it went.  So it didn't matter how many other generators were working as they could not route power.


There's usually one thing (or more) that will take down the entire deal.  On a ski lift there are two motors.  The main one is powered by the AC grid.  The second one is powered by the backup engine and diesel fuel in a bunker.  And batteries, you've got to have batteries to start the backup engine.

/you can probably figure out where the problem occurs
 
2013-03-18 04:33:19 PM

QAfarker: F carnival. You get EXACTLY what you pay for on there, we'll we did anyways.

If you want to actually enjoy and relax on the cruise try Holland America, or Royal Caribbean. My wife and I noticed night and day type differences in staff, services, and attention to detail.


When we booked our first cruise it was on the Disney Dream and we had a few folks (who had been on several different cruises with different lines) tell us that we'd be ruined for other cruises. I don't know that Disney is THAT much better than the others (they do cost more), but I've just not heard anything about Carnival that would ever attract us. Royal Caribbean might be nice to try sometime, but there is indeed just something about an attentive crew eager to make every little detail the best it could possibly be. IMO, better to pay more and love it than to cheap out and have to shiat in a bucket.
 
2013-03-18 05:01:40 PM
The only cruise I've ever been on has been a Carnival Cruise.  I was less than impressed.  One of the most annoying things was that there were a TON of kids on the cruise..so many I couldn't even get in the pool.  Having a bunch of kids around is not my idea of relaxation.  If I cruise again it will probably be a Windjammer.
 
2013-03-18 05:12:43 PM
you could not pay me enough to set foot on the deck of a carnival cruise ship.

/unless i could step on deck collect the cash and run like hell back down the boarding ramp/gangplank to dry land.
 
2013-03-18 05:26:38 PM
I've sailed NCL and Royal Caribbean. Excellent service from both, and this despite my NCL cruise being on the Norway during one of her infamous "last year"(s).
 
2013-03-18 05:27:50 PM
When it rains, it poops.....Carnival Cruises!
 
2013-03-18 05:53:34 PM
1 public toilet overflowed on triumph because people used it ignoring signs saying not to. 1 cabin had bathroom problems and that is all the toilet issues carnival has listed. carnival flew everyone home on chartered planes and gave all kinds of refunds for that cruise and a upcoming cruise. the ship could have sailed without the backup generator but decided not to for safety reasons. many passengers claimed to have loved the extra time on the beach and the cruise line had extended and expanded menus in the master dining room. the majority of passengers have said for about a 8 hour period the toilets and elevators would work for about 2 hours and then go offline for 2 hours. the dream's problem  the other day was only a azipod and it wasn't towed back to port as claimed by cnn. many cruise ships and cruise lines are skipping grand turk because of a sanitary issue suspected ON THE ISLAND and it looks like all cruise ships are about to be suspended from visiting. the glory left miami 3 hours late the other day only because it was taking on extra drinking water and not because of niro or something picked up at grand turk.
 
2013-03-18 05:54:25 PM
dammit
norovirus+niro
 
2013-03-18 06:29:38 PM
Any Farkers know which Carnival all these mishaps are happening to, CCL or CUK, or does it not matter as far as the stock/finances are concerned?
 
2013-03-18 06:57:34 PM
Husband and I will be on a Carnival cruise two weeks from now.  I'm eager to see how much they live up (or down) to their reputation.

We've cruised once before with RC, but that was on a pretty old boat (it was a tour of the Holy Land so I guess they rightly figured people who want to just cruise for the fun of cruising and not for the destinations would book something else).  I'm thinking our boat will be nicer, at least.  How they stack up on activities and such will be interesting to see.
 
2013-03-18 07:30:57 PM

akula: I just can't think of any reasonable explanation for all this mechanical trouble that doesn't have at its root a systemic trouble with the cruise line and their attitudes toward either the machinery or the people.


Did shumone shay, crew discontent?

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

/Sorry, your handle made me think of Russian subs
 
2013-03-18 09:58:48 PM
"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'..."

pics.livejournal.com
 
2013-03-18 10:25:43 PM
In three months they've have four ships disabled to the point that they were either adrift or unable to leave port. That's an insanely high failure rate. At this point this is beyond negligent.QQ
 
2013-03-18 10:37:57 PM
If the problem with the Triumph was so minor, why is it still in port at the ship repair yard next to Interstate 10 in Mobile, AL? Looks pretty major to have it just sitting there not making money...
 
2013-03-18 11:32:24 PM

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: If the problem with the Triumph was so minor, why is it still in port at the ship repair yard next to Interstate 10 in Mobile, AL? Looks pretty major to have it just sitting there not making money...


Well a fire in the engine room is pretty good for trashing mechanical systems, melting electronics, and let's not forget smoke damage and whatever residue the the fire suppression system left.
 
2013-03-19 12:10:36 AM

akula: "Pretty cheap?" It's damn near free. Compare that to a 7 day cruise on the Disney Fantasy, which in the same time frame is over three times as much per person.


You can do better. I just did a 10-day cruise through the Mediterranean (Italy, Greece and Turkey) on Norwegian for $405 pp, window room. My trigger pulling price is at about the $40 a day rate.

/landed from Rome this afternoon.
//13 hours of flying, with a bounce in Frankfurt.
 
2013-03-19 12:40:20 AM
Barron's is touting cruise lines with an article "All Aboard Cruise Stocks".

So you can figure that Carnival will be TU within 6 months because you know that Rupert Murdoch has your best interests at heart.
 
2013-03-19 12:42:15 AM
The Costa Concordia's parent company is Carnival. 35 dead and the Captain up on charges.
Rock on
 
2013-03-19 01:03:30 AM

MrSteve007: akula: "Pretty cheap?" It's damn near free. Compare that to a 7 day cruise on the Disney Fantasy, which in the same time frame is over three times as much per person.

You can do better. I just did a 10-day cruise through the Mediterranean (Italy, Greece and Turkey) on Norwegian for $405 pp, window room. My trigger pulling price is at about the $40 a day rate.

/landed from Rome this afternoon.
//13 hours of flying, with a bounce in Frankfurt.


Pick up any genuine fake watches while you were in Turkey?

/seriously, that's a good deal
//any particular website you use for price research?
 
2013-03-19 01:30:46 AM

MrSteve007: akula: "Pretty cheap?" It's damn near free. Compare that to a 7 day cruise on the Disney Fantasy, which in the same time frame is over three times as much per person.

You can do better. I just did a 10-day cruise through the Mediterranean (Italy, Greece and Turkey) on Norwegian for $405 pp, window room. My trigger pulling price is at about the $40 a day rate.

/landed from Rome this afternoon.
//13 hours of flying, with a bounce in Frankfurt.


So a three hour flight and ten hours to get through Frankfurt?
 
2013-03-19 10:56:34 AM

zqdime: I was on a Carnival cruise two years ago and one of the props went down causing us to miss the stop at Cozumel and thus my tour of Chichen Itza (the only reason I agreed to go on the cruise in the first place).  On the plus side we got some money back and a free all you can drink happy hour.

/I'll never use Carnival again
//Ever



well, look at the bright side.  the sh*tters still worked.  you could take a dump and not have to worry about it floating to the mess hall.
 
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