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(Fox News)   Problem: Farm animals are being abused while being taken to slaughter, do you A. Impose higher standards for animal welfare B. Prosecute those responsible for animal abuse or C. Make it illegal to record videos at the slaughterhouse   (foxnews.com) divider line 32
    More: Sick, standards, slaughter, video cameras, American Legislative Exchange Council, HSUS, state legislators, California State University-Chico  
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4743 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2013 at 3:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 05:21:57 AM  
5 votes:
I love crap like this.  The PETA argument crops up all the time from Veggies and Vegans.  The FDA regulates meat product, and conducts inspections of farms, especially when there are complaints.  If unsanitary conditions, abuse, or anything of the sort are found the farm is often fined and temporarily shut down until regulations are met, and the farm is "back up to code".  Lost revenue, etc etc.  People see shiat like this on the internet and think that this is how ALL farms operate.  Then they scream and cry foul and demand action (and the loudest are often the ones who already abstain from meat).  Problem is, this isn't how all farms operate.  This is representative of a tiny tiny minority of farms.  The FDA inspection process is slow, and typically governmental.  So rights advocates get wind of the complaints, and breach the farm somehow to document what has ALREADY been documented.  They just get in before the FDA and make a bigger, louder, more widely disseminated fuss.  I grew up in farm country, I spent time working on farms (dairy, meat, grain, horse boarding, etc) and they all treated their animals with respect.  Slaughter is a messy business.  Animals don't want to be slaughtered.  As a farmer, farm hand or butcher you do everything you can to keep the (dis)assembly line moving.  Sometimes it's ugly because the animals freak out. And when one freaks out, they all freak out.  And still, most farms manage this the best they can without breaking every FDA code because they want that stamp of approval on their meat so they can sell it.

The best slaughter guy is the mobile butcher.  He shows up with a big 18-wheeler, the inside is all stainless and clean.  He hands you a menu, you check off what you want, in goes your pig, out comes butchered and neatly wrapped deliciousness.  This doesn't really work on a large scale though.

Anyway, if you think farms are dens of animal abuse and filth, drive out to the country, find a hog farm or a dairy or whatever, and drive down the driveway and ring the bell of the home.  Ask whoever answers if you can volunteer some time to "see how a farm works".  Mention you live in the city, and want a taste of "country life".  These things will humor the farmer, and he will laugh at your cosmopolitan, sissy ways and give you a laundry list of chores to be done that day more difficult than what you typically accomplish in a month.  You will also get a first hand account of how difficult animal management can be, and how well these people treat the animals in their care.
2013-03-17 10:30:02 PM  
4 votes:
Something, something, Upton Sinclair something Corporatocracy.
2013-03-18 03:55:06 AM  
3 votes:
FTA: "[Other bills] make it a crime for someone such as an animal welfare advocate to lie on an application to get a job at a plant."

fireden.net
2013-03-17 11:23:28 PM  
3 votes:
Those who mistreat animals, even the animals we use as food are scumbags.

If you live in any states where these laws are proposed it is incumbent upon you to contact your legislators and let them know these laws are making them an accessory to animal abuse.
2013-03-18 03:36:22 AM  
2 votes:

feckingmorons: Those who mistreat animals, even the animals we use as food are scumbags.


Yeah, this.
I don't have any moral issue with eating meat as I simply don't believe (no matter how much I love my pets) that animals are equivalent to persons, but I'm certainly not callous enough to think that they don't feel pain.  I don't want my meat tortured before I eat it, and anyone who would do such a thing must have a sense of empathy that is defective on an almost sociopathic level.  It is often mentioned (and it is true) that animal torture is a common behavior for young psycho/sociopaths.
2013-03-18 12:56:45 AM  
2 votes:
Meat is murder.
2013-03-17 11:21:28 PM  
2 votes:
If only cows had guns...

/bad cow pun
2013-03-17 10:39:21 PM  
2 votes:
Why is ALEC pumping so much money into this issue?
2013-03-18 09:17:05 AM  
1 votes:

alienated: GAT_00: And the California bill is GOP introduced

which means it will never even make to to the floor. which is good. even if passed- jerry will veto it.


community.secondlife.com

The GOP in this state couldn't get a resolution wishing the President happy birthday out of committee, much less something as asinine as this. Patterson is just trolling the Assembly...and proving how far out of touch even our Republicans are. Although to be fair to them, I imagine more than one GOP'er in the Assembly is doing a double-facepalm over this.
2013-03-18 07:39:49 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: jso2897: WhiskeyBoy: I love crap like blah blah blah blah blah etc."

Yeah. You're right - abusers are a small minority, and not representative. That's why it stinks that these creeps are trying to make laws that will make it harder to expose them.

The problem with the undercover cameramen is lack of context. What appears like abuse to a guy in a Portland coffee house may be how it's suppose to be. I've butchered hogs, cattle, goats, chickens etc. Some of it looks cruel if you are clueless to it. Slaughtering livestock is not nice and tidy, nor can it be made that way


Probably true, and a reasonable argument of defense - but not an argument for making these laws. If what you do is defensible, why would you want people to be banned by law from recording it?
People in business NEVER want to be inconvenienced, or publicly embarrassed. I don't blame them - neither do I. But in the grown-up world of big boys and girls, we don't get that luxury.
Or I don't, anyway - why should they?
We need to abandon this weird social conviction that business and money are sacred and sacrosanct - it's extremely unwholesome for our entire society.
2013-03-18 07:06:35 AM  
1 votes:

jso2897: WhiskeyBoy: I love crap like blah blah blah blah blah etc."

Yeah. You're right - abusers are a small minority, and not representative. That's why it stinks that these creeps are trying to make laws that will make it harder to expose them.




The problem with the undercover cameramen is lack of context. What appears like abuse to a guy in a Portland coffee house may be how it's suppose to be. I've butchered hogs, cattle, goats, chickens etc. Some of it looks cruel if you are clueless to it. Slaughtering livestock is not nice and tidy, nor can it be made that way
2013-03-18 07:03:54 AM  
1 votes:
Just a reminder about America's food industry.
According to Center for Disease Control estimates, 48 million Americans get sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die from foodborne illnesses every year. In comparison, the entire European Union had roughly 45,000 illnesses and 32 deaths from contaminated food in 2008. That means foodborne illness strikes 15 percent of Americans each year, but only .00009 percent of Europeans.
2013-03-18 06:51:26 AM  
1 votes:

WhiskeyBoy: I love crap like

blah blah blah blah blah etc."

Yeah. You're right - abusers are a small minority, and not representative. That's why it stinks that these creeps are trying to make laws that will make it harder to expose them.
2013-03-18 06:28:34 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: One of the problems with "abuse" is that the bleeding harts wouldn't be able to tell between it and what it isn't. Banding cavles f and burning horns off them would seem cruel if you didn't know it's for thier own good. Same with tail docking and snout ringing on pigs. All look cruel but are common things.


You got that right.  I'm an Iowa boy.  I spent some time on farms.  Frankly I havent the stomach for it.  I once saw a farmer pick a squealing piglet up by the foot and I about cried.  BUT, I also learned to trust farmers know what they're doing and to not question them.

I dont think farms or farmers are the problem.  Slaughter houses/Packing plants....thats a different story.

Yogimus: I believe the difference between slaughter and abuse is the "joy" derived by the perpetrator from the act


Thats an interesting take; I'll give that some thought.
2013-03-18 05:42:17 AM  
1 votes:

WhiskeyBoy: Anyway, if you think farms are dens of animal abuse and filth, drive out to the country, find a hog farm or a dairy or whatever, and drive down the driveway and ring the bell of the home. Ask whoever answers if you can volunteer some time to "see how a farm works". Mention you live in the city, and want a taste of "country life". These things will humor the farmer, and he will laugh at your cosmopolitan, sissy ways and give you a laundry list of chores to be done that day more difficult than what you typically accomplish in a month. You will also get a first hand account of how difficult animal management can be, and how well these people treat the animals in their care.


Sounds like you've been to some farms too.  Having been to many during my childhood and even more while installing equipment, let me assure you that there are farmers at all ends of pretty much all spectrums.  One of the filthiest places I know is a hog farm where the crap level in the pens will go right up your shins.  Could he clean it?  Yes.  Would most farmers clean it?  Yes.  Did he clean it?  No.  Generally speaking, you get into problems when farmers are just a little bit lazy which is funny because most of us are easily in that group.
2013-03-18 05:38:01 AM  
1 votes:
Some people here seem to be having trouble separating the issues of abuse & cruelty with eating meat.

WhiskeyBoy: You will also get a first hand account of how difficult animal management can be, and how well these people treat the animals in their care.


I think most people agree with what you said.  But it doesnt mean cruelty and abuse dont exist or shouldnt be exposed.  Exposure is the subject of the proposed bill.
2013-03-18 05:05:13 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: doglover: Mid_mo_mad_man: The problem is the trespassing and lying to obtain the footage

No need to pass laws against trespass, as that's ALREADY illegal.

As for the lying, that should be illegal, too.

However I am against bans and for breaking unjust laws. If people feel strongly enough about these movies to keep making them, it's a freedom of speech thing. If they get caught breaking the law, prosecute 'em for trespass and possibly falsified documents, but don't pass a ban. That's a dick move.

How is sneaking onto private property and conning your way into places freedom of speech?


It isn't, but the act of trespassing and the photography are two different subjects (pdf). See also,  College of Charleston Foundation v. Ham.
2013-03-18 04:59:07 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: The problem is the trespassing and lying to obtain the footage


Lying is protected speech under certain circumstances.  The Stolen Valor Act was struck down by the SCOTUS.  Even Alito, ironically, lent credence to protection for this sort of lying in his dissent to the Stolen Valor decision:

"the right to free speech does not protect false factual statements that inflict real harm and serve no legitimate interest."

I would say that exposing animal abuse is a legitimate interest.  The doctrine of "clean hands" arguably precludes an animal abuser from claiming harm by the exposure of his crime.

It is instructive to review Food Lion v. Capital Cities/ABC Inc., a case in which investigative journalists obtained employment at Food Lion supermarkets and secretly videotaped unsafe food handling practices. Food Lion ultimately prevailed on claims of trespass and breach of duty-of-loyalty, but each journalist only had to pay $1 per offense.  Awards for fraud and unfair trade practices were voided.  Food Lion got zippo for damages to its reputation.
2013-03-18 04:49:28 AM  
1 votes:
The ones complaining about slaughter houses are the same type who move to the country and complain about bad smells. My first job was on a 3,000 head hog farm. A retireee from St Louis moves a mile down from it. First thing he does is biatch about the odor
2013-03-18 04:48:18 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: doglover: Mid_mo_mad_man: The problem is the trespassing and lying to obtain the footage

No need to pass laws against trespass, as that's ALREADY illegal.

As for the lying, that should be illegal, too.

However I am against bans and for breaking unjust laws. If people feel strongly enough about these movies to keep making them, it's a freedom of speech thing. If they get caught breaking the law, prosecute 'em for trespass and possibly falsified documents, but don't pass a ban. That's a dick move.

How is sneaking onto private property and conning your way into places freedom of speech?


I think what he's referring to is that people who do this sort of thing aren't disclosing the fact that they're also working on behalf of an animal rights group. They may be completely honest with their name and SSN and employment history, but they lie on the part of the application (if there is one) that asks if they are affiliated with any sort of tree-huggin' vegan hippies.

Personally, I don't think it's any of a prospective employer's business what my political affiliations are, as long as I am willing and able to do the job.

Do you think that political litmus tests for employment are acceptable?
2013-03-18 04:40:44 AM  
1 votes:

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: So how do you force a 1000lb animal that really, really doesn't want to die to go calmly to its death?


I was watching a PBS show about small-time farmers a couple of months ago. One scene that stuck out is when the hippy-looking guy drove out to the cow pasture with a front-end loader on his tractor. At first I thought maybe one of the cows had died, until he grabbed his shotgun as he was getting off the tractor, and realized, not yet.

The screen went black and you only heard the gunshot, but afterwards, they showed an interview in which he discussed why he did that. The idea was that the cow would be in his normal environment, amongst the other cows he knew and was familiar with, and his death would be instantaneous and painless rather than a long, drawn out walk to a slaughterhouse, smelling blood and death and being uncomfortable and tense. He said that not only was it very humane, but the meat tasted better that way.
2013-03-18 04:40:11 AM  
1 votes:

Bumblefark: Gawdzila: feckingmorons: Those who mistreat animals, even the animals we use as food are scumbags.

Yeah, this.
I don't have any moral issue with eating meat as I simply don't believe (no matter how much I love my pets) that animals are equivalent to persons, but I'm certainly not callous enough to think that they don't feel pain.  I don't want my meat tortured before I eat it, and anyone who would do such a thing must have a sense of empathy that is defective on an almost sociopathic level.  It is often mentioned (and it is true) that animal torture is a common behavior for young psycho/sociopaths.

It's also a common behavior for those who have a hand in bringing meat to market. Curiously enough, folks who raise/slaughter livestock for a living aren't so delicate in their sensibilities as the vast majority of people who benefit from their labors...

Sorry to say, your diet hinges on a whole lot of people you'd probably rather not associate with. By necessity...


Pretty much this.

My best friend grew up and worked on his family's dairy farm, and they certainly didn't mistreat their animals. They were valuable economic assets which provided a necessary commodity. But they weren't tucked into comfy beds in a cozy house every night, either. And they raised veal calves (since male calves are pretty useless on a dairy farm). The little guys got raised on 20' chains in little sheds till they were big enough to slaughter.

That said, nobody wants to hand slaughter animals over to people who want to torture them to death. But moving a large number of very unintelligent animals into what is essentially a mechanized assembly line, with attendant loud noises, bright lights, and unpleasant smells, is going to be incredibly stressful on the animals. They're not going to want to go. They'll have to be driven. You can't ask them nicely or wait till they go on their own. So they have to be poked, prodded, hit, and sometimes shocked. It's not a happy-making experience for either the animals or the people who have to do it. And animal slaughter laws require that certain cleanliness regulations be observed, which makes it even worse for everyone.

If that's too much for people to handle, then don't eat it. Or eat hand-raised and hand-slaughtered meat. But don't be too shocked by what goes on in an industrial slaughterhouse.
2013-03-18 04:22:13 AM  
1 votes:

gravebayne2: Yogimus: I don't care if my food is tortured or cuddled.

actually meat that is less stressed when butchered has been proven to be better in taste. my value brand hot dogs probably came from tortured meat though but the chems cover it up pretty well.


I don't think they really separate meat from scared animals out from the meat of relaxed ones. Your value brand hot dogs are made from the amalgamated scraps of any carcass they could scrape some meat from. But yeah, fear changes the flavor of the meat.
 Problem: animals aren't stupid. I mean, they are, but they know the smell of death. They understand, on some level, what a trip to the slaughterhouse means, and their instincts are going to tell them to get the fark out of there. So how do you force a 1000lb animal that really, really doesn't want to die to go calmly to its death?
2013-03-18 04:19:45 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: The problem is the trespassing and lying to obtain the footage


No need to pass laws against trespass, as that's ALREADY illegal.

As for the lying, that should be illegal, too.

However I am against bans and for breaking unjust laws. If people feel strongly enough about these movies to keep making them, it's a freedom of speech thing. If they get caught breaking the law, prosecute 'em for trespass and possibly falsified documents, but don't pass a ban. That's a dick move.
2013-03-18 04:17:23 AM  
1 votes:
ALEC has labeled those who interfere with animal operations "terrorists," though a spokesman said he wishes now that the organization had called its legislation the "Freedom to Farm Act" rather than the "Animal and Ecological Terrorism Act."

I think we can safely add "terrorist" and "terrorism" to the list of words that no longer have any actual meaning whatsoever aside from being a general pejorative. List already includes "socialist", "liberal", "statist" (thought I don't think that one ever actually had a proper meaning at all) and of course "intellectual elite".

Then there are words that aren't pejorative yet still meaningless such as "freedom" and "democracy." I'm pretty sure those two lost all meaning when they became synonymous with dropping bombs on people, or as we used to call it, "terrorism."
2013-03-18 03:44:58 AM  
1 votes:

Mid_mo_mad_man: I'm ok with the banning of filming at slaughter houses. The business of butchering animals is never going to be pleasant.


Came here to say basically this. Also who isn't to say some of this footage was cherry picked out of thousands of hours of recording. Show me a job or trade that is perfect in handling of their duties 100% of the time and I will show you a magic bean.

//doesn't agree with unwarranted animal abuse
//but people aren't perfect either
2013-03-18 03:44:29 AM  
1 votes:

Gawdzila: feckingmorons: Those who mistreat animals, even the animals we use as food are scumbags.

Yeah, this.
I don't have any moral issue with eating meat as I simply don't believe (no matter how much I love my pets) that animals are equivalent to persons, but I'm certainly not callous enough to think that they don't feel pain.  I don't want my meat tortured before I eat it, and anyone who would do such a thing must have a sense of empathy that is defective on an almost sociopathic level.  It is often mentioned (and it is true) that animal torture is a common behavior for young psycho/sociopaths.


It's also a common behavior for those who have a hand in bringing meat to market. Curiously enough, folks who raise/slaughter livestock for a living aren't so delicate in their sensibilities as the vast majority of people who benefit from their labors...

Sorry to say, your diet hinges on a whole lot of people you'd probably rather not associate with. By necessity...
2013-03-18 03:38:37 AM  
1 votes:
I'm ok with the banning of filming at slaughter houses. The business of butchering animals is never going to be pleasant.
2013-03-18 03:33:23 AM  
1 votes:
The GOP rationale for this is really disgusting, it's total hypocrisy.  They're claiming they have to ban filming for the animal's sake, that people allowed to film would rather film than get help.
2013-03-18 03:16:06 AM  
1 votes:
So... when it increases corporate revenues off the tax paying public using cameras to capture minor legal infractions is a good thing. And when it decreases corporate revenues it's a bad thing.

I want to become a corporation and stop being a person. Corporations get away with shiat that would have persons put away.
2013-03-18 12:39:10 AM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: Hmm, possibly Republican government, but banning the filming of cops has been across the board.  Let's just take a look...

5 of 6 GOP, and of course we're doing it.  And the California bill is GOP introduced.  Can't get in the way of profits now can we Republicans?  Must pray to the all mighty dollar.  I wonder which odious piece of shiat introduced our version of it.  Oh ALEC, I should have known.


What is that stream of consciousness? Beat poetery?

In case you didn't realize it the SCOTUS let stand a lower Court's decision about videotaping police in public is always allowed.
2013-03-17 11:49:11 PM  
1 votes:
Hmm, possibly Republican government, but banning the filming of cops has been across the board.  Let's just take a look...

5 of 6 GOP, and of course we're doing it.  And the California bill is GOP introduced.  Can't get in the way of profits now can we Republicans?  Must pray to the all mighty dollar.  I wonder which odious piece of shiat introduced our version of it.  Oh ALEC, I should have known.
 
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