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(Opposing Views)   CNN host Candy Crowley and reporter Poppy Harlow are almost in tears over the "ruined lives" of the two Steubenville, Ohio teen football players who were found guilty of gang-raping a 16-year-old girl   (opposingviews.com) divider line 659
    More: Sick, Steubenville, Candy Crowley, Poppy Harlow, CNN, CNN host, Ohio, guilty verdicts, rapists  
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20157 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2013 at 6:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 05:54:59 PM  

juvandy: Biological Ali: There are a few valid reasons for the cops to want to know whether the person had been drinking. The most obvious is that, depending on how drunk the individual was, he or she may not even have been legally capable of giving consent, which would make it an important detail for the prosecution. In this case for instance, the victim being intoxicated to the level she was turned out to be pretty damning for the accused.

But yeah - a lot of people seem to think that the person being drunk at the time should somehow work in the accused's favour or be held against the victim, which is a completely backwards way of looking at it. One can only hope that notions like these aren't too prevalent among the police as well as in the court system.

The problem with the latter is that in a scenario which leaves no lasting physical evidence and no eyewitnesses (as many rapes do), then convicting the perpetrator relies solely on the victim's eyewitness account. If the victim was drunk, then their eyewitness account may not be admissible as evidence because the victim's state of mind, memory, etc. can all be affected by the intoxication. I don't know of a good solution for that.


Actually, very few rapes leave physical evidence beyond the evidence that some kind of sexual encounter took place.
 
2013-03-18 05:57:15 PM  

juvandy: I don't think the problem is necessarily that the system wasn't concerned. I think it's that the system has no way to effectively deal with your experience.


This kind of thing isn't exactly a new issue for law enforcement. There's plenty of ways to investigate things like this. One option is obviously to interview the guy - sometimes it's obvious that the guy's bullshiatting, and sometimes people just confess outright. And beyond that, you see whether previous accusations have been made against the same person (even if the crime itself leaves no physical proof, a string of related accusations over a period of time by different people would be a very strong piece of evidence). To that end, if the guy works for a company, you could also go through their records - a lot of people make complaints to the companies rather than the police and the companies aren't always quick to turn things like these over to the authorities.
 
2013-03-18 05:58:09 PM  

ginandbacon: Actually, very few rapes leave physical evidence beyond the evidence that some kind of sexual encounter took place.


Exactly my point, and the longer it takes for the rape to be reported, the less of that evidence will be recoverable, and the more a given case will rely on what essentially devolves into a "she said he said" conflict. How do we fix the legal system's inability to effectively deal with this problem?
 
2013-03-18 05:58:25 PM  

ginandbacon: Genevieve Marie: ginandbacon: I am getting a little pissed off at this idea that it is a victim's responsibility to undergo what I have heard is a terrible ordeal by reporting their own assault in order to prevent future rapes. It isn't and no one should have to face that kind of guilt trip. Ever. It is the rapist's responsibility to prevent rape. Full stop.

This has come up in threads before and it's always hard for me to read too.

It is shameful and disgusting. And I seriously hope none of the insensitive assholes is ever in a position to spew this crap at a victim. None of the women I know who were raped reported it and I don't see how that makes them any part of the problem we are discussing. I consider victims who do report to be almost incomprehensibly brave given how they are treated inmost cases by LE, doctors, the courts, and friends, family, and acquaintances.

Guess what? If the victims of rape felt like it was safe to report rape,  they would.


But let us also be realistic in saying that more rapists would be imprisoned if more women reported their rapes.  For all the empowering women talk that goes on, how about if we actually do that and teach them that what happened to them was not their fault and take the reins and turn these guys in.  Let me ask you how you would feel if the woman who got raped by the guy who raped you first came to your door and asked you why you didn't report. What would be your answer for her pain?

It's not the victims fault, report the crime.
I have daughters.  This is what I teach them.
 
2013-03-18 05:58:56 PM  

ParagonComplex: There isn't any way they're going to be locked up that long anyway. Once word gets out that they're rapists they'll find out just how it feels to get raped. Their lives wil be ruined? Their assholes will be ruined. Evil bastards get what evil bastards deserve. I'm not wishing ill will on them. Just making a matter-of-fact statement.


IDK.  They're local football heroes in juvie, not the state pen.  They may be treated like gods who farked a hot teacher.

Mays is going to find it hard to shave time with the denial he's got going on.  Richmond seems genuinely remorseful; he may get time off.  Any hero worship they receive will hurt both of them.
 
2013-03-18 06:01:11 PM  

Biological Ali: And beyond that, you see whether previous accusations have been made against the same person (even if the crime itself leaves no physical proof, a string of related accusations over a period of time by different people would be a very strong piece of evidence). To that end, if the guy works for a company, you could also go through their records - a lot of people make complaints to the companies rather than the police and the companies aren't always quick to turn things like these over to the authorities.


I agree that this is likely the only course of action, but what if the guy is a first-time offender, or nobody else has reported anything? Also, a pattern of behavior, while strong circumstantial evidence, doesn't necessarily mean that he would be guilty of the event in which he was accused.
 
2013-03-18 06:05:00 PM  

Snowflake Tubbybottom: ginandbacon: Genevieve Marie: ginandbacon: I am getting a little pissed off at this idea that it is a victim's responsibility to undergo what I have heard is a terrible ordeal by reporting their own assault in order to prevent future rapes. It isn't and no one should have to face that kind of guilt trip. Ever. It is the rapist's responsibility to prevent rape. Full stop.

This has come up in threads before and it's always hard for me to read too.

It is shameful and disgusting. And I seriously hope none of the insensitive assholes is ever in a position to spew this crap at a victim. None of the women I know who were raped reported it and I don't see how that makes them any part of the problem we are discussing. I consider victims who do report to be almost incomprehensibly brave given how they are treated inmost cases by LE, doctors, the courts, and friends, family, and acquaintances.

Guess what? If the victims of rape felt like it was safe to report rape,  they would.

But let us also be realistic in saying that more rapists would be imprisoned if more women reported their rapes.  For all the empowering women talk that goes on, how about if we actually do that and teach them that what happened to them was not their fault and take the reins and turn these guys in.  Let me ask you how you would feel if the woman who got raped by the guy who raped you first came to your door and asked you why you didn't report. What would be your answer for her pain?

It's not the victims fault, report the crime.
I have daughters.  This is what I teach them.


My parents, for as wonderful as they were, rarely ever talked to me about sex, and as Catholics I knew they wouldn't approve of my consensual sexual activity - not that I believe they would ever blame me for what happened. But, yeah, my experience has definitely taught me to be WAY more frank and open with my kids about sex. I want them to trust that they can tell me anything without shame.
 
2013-03-18 06:06:06 PM  

juvandy: no lasting physical evidence and no eyewitnesses


This is true for all kinds of crimes. Threatening someone with a weapon, for instance, is very much illegal, and the fact that there's no way to physically distinguish someone who was actually threatened from someone who wasn't threatened doesn't mean that the police and DA will just throw up their hands and surrender. People get investigated, prosecuted and convicted for crimes like this all the time.
 
2013-03-18 06:06:32 PM  

Genevieve Marie: You keep asking for that, and yet you don't seem to accept the pictures of her being carried around by her arms and legs, looking like a sack of flour, nor do you accept the video of the people at the party who were talking about her as the dead girl and making jokes about her being unconscious.

I'm not sure what more proof you want than images showing her unconscious and videos where people are discussing that she's unconscious.


WTF does a picture of her being carried around and a video from some idiot (not one of the accused) prove? Did they humiliate her after she passed out? Sure they did. Did they finger bang her after she was passed out, or was it earlier in the evening, with her consent? If you're saying you know that as a fact, you haven't spent 5 minutes looking over the evidence that's been made available, because there's absolutely nothing that proves when the "rape" occurred.
 
2013-03-18 06:09:31 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Genevieve Marie: You keep asking for that, and yet you don't seem to accept the pictures of her being carried around by her arms and legs, looking like a sack of flour, nor do you accept the video of the people at the party who were talking about her as the dead girl and making jokes about her being unconscious.

I'm not sure what more proof you want than images showing her unconscious and videos where people are discussing that she's unconscious.

WTF does a picture of her being carried around and a video from some idiot (not one of the accused) prove? Did they humiliate her after she passed out? Sure they did. Did they finger bang her after she was passed out, or was it earlier in the evening, with her consent? If you're saying you know that as a fact, you haven't spent 5 minutes looking over the evidence that's been made available, because there's absolutely nothing that proves when the "rape" occurred.


And since you don't know for a fact either, you're doing everything you can to defend the rapists and demean the victim. Why is there always at least one person who does this? Simply to be contrary, or because you believe they're innocent and she's evil?
 
2013-03-18 06:10:05 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Genevieve Marie: You keep asking for that, and yet you don't seem to accept the pictures of her being carried around by her arms and legs, looking like a sack of flour, nor do you accept the video of the people at the party who were talking about her as the dead girl and making jokes about her being unconscious.

I'm not sure what more proof you want than images showing her unconscious and videos where people are discussing that she's unconscious.

WTF does a picture of her being carried around and a video from some idiot (not one of the accused) prove? Did they humiliate her after she passed out? Sure they did. Did they finger bang her after she was passed out, or was it earlier in the evening, with her consent? If you're saying you know that as a fact, you haven't spent 5 minutes looking over the evidence that's been made available, because there's absolutely nothing that proves when the "rape" occurred.


Yea, that's about what I thought you'd say. It's fairly clear that you want to believe these boys are innocent despite a lot of video evidence from the evening, despite the testimony of eyewitnesses, and despite the fact that they've been found guilty in a court of law.

You sir, are what we call a rape apologist, and you're not worth any more of my time.
 
2013-03-18 06:15:01 PM  

Snowflake Tubbybottom: ginandbacon: Genevieve Marie: ginandbacon: I am getting a little pissed off at this idea that it is a victim's responsibility to undergo what I have heard is a terrible ordeal by reporting their own assault in order to prevent future rapes. It isn't and no one should have to face that kind of guilt trip. Ever. It is the rapist's responsibility to prevent rape. Full stop.

This has come up in threads before and it's always hard for me to read too.

It is shameful and disgusting. And I seriously hope none of the insensitive assholes is ever in a position to spew this crap at a victim. None of the women I know who were raped reported it and I don't see how that makes them any part of the problem we are discussing. I consider victims who do report to be almost incomprehensibly brave given how they are treated inmost cases by LE, doctors, the courts, and friends, family, and acquaintances.

Guess what? If the victims of rape felt like it was safe to report rape,  they would.

But let us also be realistic in saying that more rapists would be imprisoned if more women reported their rapes.  For all the empowering women talk that goes on, how about if we actually do that and teach them that what happened to them was not their fault and take the reins and turn these guys in.  Let me ask you how you would feel if the woman who got raped by the guy who raped you first came to your door and asked you why you didn't report. What would be your answer for her pain?

It's not the victims fault, report the crime.
I have daughters.  This is what I teach them.


I am done with you.
 
2013-03-18 06:19:30 PM  

ginandbacon: Snowflake Tubbybottom: ginandbacon: Genevieve Marie: ginandbacon: I am getting a little pissed off at this idea that it is a victim's responsibility to undergo what I have heard is a terrible ordeal by reporting their own assault in order to prevent future rapes. It isn't and no one should have to face that kind of guilt trip. Ever. It is the rapist's responsibility to prevent rape. Full stop.

This has come up in threads before and it's always hard for me to read too.

It is shameful and disgusting. And I seriously hope none of the insensitive assholes is ever in a position to spew this crap at a victim. None of the women I know who were raped reported it and I don't see how that makes them any part of the problem we are discussing. I consider victims who do report to be almost incomprehensibly brave given how they are treated inmost cases by LE, doctors, the courts, and friends, family, and acquaintances.

Guess what? If the victims of rape felt like it was safe to report rape,  they would.

But let us also be realistic in saying that more rapists would be imprisoned if more women reported their rapes.  For all the empowering women talk that goes on, how about if we actually do that and teach them that what happened to them was not their fault and take the reins and turn these guys in.  Let me ask you how you would feel if the woman who got raped by the guy who raped you first came to your door and asked you why you didn't report. What would be your answer for her pain?

It's not the victims fault, report the crime.
I have daughters.  This is what I teach them.

I am done with you.


And I'll ask you again why you would ever have a problem with empowering women to come forth and put these bastards away for their crime?  How could you possibly have a problem with that?  You only further the problem by staying silent.
 
2013-03-18 06:23:29 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: And since you don't know for a fact either, you're doing everything you can to defend the rapists and demean the victim.


I'm doing no such thing. All I'm doing is asking for evidence that they did anything other than what they claimed, had consensual sexual activity with a drunk chick at a party.

Most of you seem unable to comprehend that a picture showing a passed out, partially naked teenager being made fun of by other drunk teenagers does not mean she was raped.
 
2013-03-18 06:28:17 PM  

Snowflake Tubbybottom: And I'll ask you again why you would ever have a problem with empowering women to come forth and put these bastards away for their crime? How could you possibly have a problem with that? You only further the problem by staying silent.


Her point is  that people react to sexual trauma in very different ways, and while empowering women to come forward is important, so is recognizing that not all rape victims are going to be able to do that and not shaming them for it.
 
2013-03-18 06:28:47 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: All I'm doing


Do everyone (including yourself) a favour, and stop posting in this thread. Afterwards, you'll probably want to abandon this handle and start up a new account, since this something like this is going to be hard to shake off - especially considering how long you've dragged it on for.
 
2013-03-18 06:35:20 PM  

cman: How does one teach others not to rape?


Public hangings come to mind.
 
2013-03-18 06:37:49 PM  

Genevieve Marie: Snowflake Tubbybottom: And I'll ask you again why you would ever have a problem with empowering women to come forth and put these bastards away for their crime? How could you possibly have a problem with that? You only further the problem by staying silent.

Her point is  that people react to sexual trauma in very different ways, and while empowering women to come forward is important, so is recognizing that not all rape victims are going to be able to do that and not shaming them for it.


He never said that we should empower women to report their assaults. He said that women were to blame if they didn't and their rapists committed another rape.
 
2013-03-18 06:39:33 PM  

ginandbacon: Genevieve Marie: Snowflake Tubbybottom: And I'll ask you again why you would ever have a problem with empowering women to come forth and put these bastards away for their crime? How could you possibly have a problem with that? You only further the problem by staying silent.

Her point is  that people react to sexual trauma in very different ways, and while empowering women to come forward is important, so is recognizing that not all rape victims are going to be able to do that and not shaming them for it.

He never said that we should empower women to report their assaults. He said that women were to blame if they didn't and their rapists committed another rape.


Ugh. Missed that part. Gross.

More victim blaming.
 
2013-03-18 06:41:42 PM  

juvandy: deana: and I was just TOUCHED by the guy.

I'll add this to my theory of how our legal system deals with rape from several pages earlier- how do we define rape? Is rape a crime of degrees, or all-or-nothing? The circumstances you describe have even less physical evidence than actual rape does- how do you convict someone of a crime that leaves no physical evidence, and, in your case, doesn't even leave physical evidence of injury (even if there was mental distress, which is much harder to prove)? I don't think the problem is necessarily that the system wasn't concerned. I think it's that the system has no way to effectively deal with your experience. Out of curiosity- what kind of outcome did you expect/want? The driver to be fired? Convicted of assault? Placed on a sex offender list?


Really, they could have caught the guy.  Figure out who he is and which taxi company he works for.  Get a warrant.  Put a GPS tracker on his car (actually I think last time I checked you didn't need a warrant for that, but you should...).  Send a hot female cop undercover with some hidden cameras and have her hail his cab and sit in the front seat for whatever reason.

ok, now onto some apparent victim blaming, but really I'm just curious about the details... If this happened on the highway at 65mph... what did you do?  I can think of a lot of reactions I'd possibly have that would make things a lot worse.
I guess I'd smack the shiat out of the guy, then get my phone out, call 911 while still in the cab, and start taking photos.
 
2013-03-18 06:46:24 PM  
My seven-year-old son just wandered in and asked me what I was reading.  I took the initiative to give him an age-appropriate, brief synopsis of this event.  Told him a girl and some boys were drinking at a party, the girl got very drunk and fell asleep, and the boys thought it was funny to take pictures of her private parts and kiss her without asking.  He was aghast, and the first thing he asked me was, "Why didn't anybody else at the party stop them?"  I replied, "These were popular football players.  Maybe they were scared?" He angrily shook his head and said, "So leave and call the police!  What's wrong with those people?"

So when I read and hear people saying that boys will be boys or feeling pity for these entitled little sociopathic twits, I look at my own child who, at seven, is already more of a man than any of them, and I can still feel a little glimmer of hope.
 
2013-03-18 06:46:58 PM  

jaybeezey: t enemies when they falsely accuse. And yes, I realize the number if false accusations is far lower and almost minuscule in


I gotta interject. Listen, I think men worry about false accusations and the like because they're trying to understand what happened, for example, they think that it is a possibility that there was a misunderstanding. Perhaps they've been with crazy and came close to being accused.
But understand, you are nothing like the rapist. The rapist in many cases, we cannot comprehend why he/she does what he/she does. Usually its about exerting power over someone.
But we're not saying that's you, the normal person, we are mad at the rapist (of course), we are mad at past trials where the victim's dress was admitted as evidence, we are mad at people's defending a rapist because they happen to be in sports and looked up to.
We just want you to understand, they don't think like you, it is futile to understand them and treads on being offensive that you get so close to sympathizing, though I understand the curious mental exercise.
 
2013-03-18 06:48:22 PM  

Moonfisher: My seven-year-old son just wandered in and asked me what I was reading.  I took the initiative to give him an age-appropriate, brief synopsis of this event.  Told him a girl and some boys were drinking at a party, the girl got very drunk and fell asleep, and the boys thought it was funny to take pictures of her private parts and kiss her without asking.  He was aghast, and the first thing he asked me was, "Why didn't anybody else at the party stop them?"  I replied, "These were popular football players.  Maybe they were scared?" He angrily shook his head and said, "So leave and call the police!  What's wrong with those people?"

So when I read and hear people saying that boys will be boys or feeling pity for these entitled little sociopathic twits, I look at my own child who, at seven, is already more of a man than any of them, and I can still feel a little glimmer of hope.


See, that's good parenting. There should be more like you.
 
2013-03-18 06:48:43 PM  

Genevieve Marie: ginandbacon: Genevieve Marie: Snowflake Tubbybottom: And I'll ask you again why you would ever have a problem with empowering women to come forth and put these bastards away for their crime? How could you possibly have a problem with that? You only further the problem by staying silent.

Her point is  that people react to sexual trauma in very different ways, and while empowering women to come forward is important, so is recognizing that not all rape victims are going to be able to do that and not shaming them for it.

He never said that we should empower women to report their assaults. He said that women were to blame if they didn't and their rapists committed another rape.

Ugh. Missed that part. Gross.

More victim blaming.


Yes.
 
2013-03-18 06:56:04 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Keizer_Ghidorah: And since you don't know for a fact either, you're doing everything you can to defend the rapists and demean the victim.

I'm doing no such thing. All I'm doing is asking for evidence that they did anything other than what they claimed, had consensual sexual activity with a drunk chick at a party.

Most of you seem unable to comprehend that a picture showing a passed out, partially naked teenager being made fun of by other drunk teenagers does not mean she was raped.


I'm fairly certain that such evidence was presented at the trial, and it wasn't true or didn't help them, as they were found guilty. Would you be so eager to defend them if they weren't young football players with "promising futures"?
 
2013-03-18 07:12:46 PM  

serial_crusher: Bontesla: We're responsible for the reason why rape victims largely don't come forward. Perhaps not you or I - but certainly our society. We punish the victims. We collectively ask what they could have done to be responsible for their own rapes.

Why is rape the only crime that's a big deal in that department?  Suppose somebody breaks into your house and steals all your stuff, so you mosey on down to the police station to file a report.  Cop starts asking tough questions like "did you leave the door unlocked?", "do you have a dog?", "oh, you forgot to set your alarm system that day?"  Victim blaming, I say!  Next time that victim gets robbed, they'll be less likely to report it!

/ well not really, but only because there's not people like you going around convincing robbery victims that they should let their robbers go free instead of cooperating with the police.


Think more of being assaulted
"Where you wearing something your assailant did not approve of?"
"were you wearing armor that night?"
"why were you alone and not with a protector?
"oh! you forgot to charge your tazer jacket that day?"

/and the "house locked" item makes it sound like you think women should wear chastity belts or take out homeowners insurance on their hoo-ha's, which you must realize is ridiculous
//we're not talking about capital here, but the sacred self of an individual
///and even if the alarm system on a house wasn't armed or the door unlocked, there was still a crime committed
 
2013-03-18 07:21:40 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Would you be so eager to defend them if they weren't young football players with "promising futures"?


Unlike a lot of the posters here, I don't give a fark that they're football players. Half the people here couldn't care less about facts, in typical Fark fashion, they're against the jocks.
 
2013-03-18 07:21:51 PM  
serial_crusher:
ok, now onto some apparent victim blaming, but really I'm just curious about the details... If this happened on the highway at 65mph... what did you do?  I can think of a lot of reactions I'd possibly have that would make things a lot worse.
I guess I'd smack the shiat out of the guy, then get my phone out, call 911 while still in the cab, and start taking photos.


I slapped his hand and scratched him.  Lost a nail in the process.  I was more shocked than anything else.  I have a tendency to lose common sense when faced with things like that.  I freeze up.  Stupid, but that's what happens.
 
2013-03-18 07:22:47 PM  
I think most of the guys on here being cast as "rape apologists" act this way basically because of sexual frustration. You know, like, "a guy finally gets some pussy and he gets called a rapist for it!"

I dunno, that's just my take on it. Not trying to excuse it or minimize it, but I think that's what it's about.
 
2013-03-18 07:26:41 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Keizer_Ghidorah: Would you be so eager to defend them if they weren't young football players with "promising futures"?

Unlike a lot of the posters here, I don't give a fark that they're football players. Half the people here couldn't care less about facts, in typical Fark fashion, they're against the jocks.


Sigh. The facts are that this girl testified that she was passed out and does not remember the events of the evening because she was incapacitated. She knows she woke up without her clothes in someone's basement. The fact that she was passed out and unresponsive was corroborated by multiple eyewitnesses, and also discussed on film by party goers. The other relevant fact is that people testified to witnessing her be penetrated by these young men while she was unconscious.

This is the freaking motherload of evidence for a case like this. This is one of the most well documented sexual assaults I've ever seen. If you don't believe that this one occurred, it's because you have some really weird ideas about rape and you're not going to believe ANY victim.
 
2013-03-18 07:28:18 PM  

Genevieve Marie: There should be more like you.


this
 
2013-03-18 07:28:51 PM  

spamdog: I think most of the guys on here being cast as "rape apologists" act this way basically because of sexual frustration. You know, like, "a guy finally gets some pussy and he gets called a rapist for it!"

I dunno, that's just my take on it. Not trying to excuse it or minimize it, but I think that's what it's about.


I... don't know where you got that, but that makes it more creepy actually. That anyone could look at this as "a guy finally getting some pussy."

Ew. Just. Ew.
 
2013-03-18 07:29:44 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Half the people here couldn't care less about facts, in typical Fark fashion, they're against the jocks.


They've been convicted.  There's really no other place to be than against what they did.  The law does require that they be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (or adjudicated delinquent beyond a reasonable doubt since they're juveniles).  The law does not require that to be proven to you specifically.  People have told you over and over that the evidence in a juvenile case is not made public very often.  However, there was a report on the radio today that said 3 eye witnesses testified to the acts of these two individuals.  These 3 had recorded video of the girl naked and were granted immunity to testify to what was done to the girl..

Now, if you're just enjoying being a thorn in everyone's side in this thread, carry on and enjoy.  But, I wanted to make sure you knew that your incessant restatement of a question that has been settled in a court of law is tedious, in case that was not your purpose.
 
2013-03-18 08:04:29 PM  

Popcorn Johnny:  in typical Fark fashion, they're against the jocks.


Better than being for the rapists.
 
2013-03-18 08:10:32 PM  

Bullseyed: Philbb: Poppy Harlow: "... had such promising futures, star football player, very good students...."

Just as an aside; would they have been talking about these boys ruining their lives if they were not football players? If they had been, perhaps, very good students and members of the school band?

The lack of interest in the victim doesn't surprise me at all. I've known that since the beginning of the Penn State scandal when so people were all broke up over losing a coach and had no sympathy for the alleged victims.

Yeah but in that case the coach wasn't the one raping the kids, so it was a little different. You can argue how much or how little he enabled the guy who was raping the kids, but it seemed like he really just didn't know what to do. His bosses didn't care it was happening and he was too scared to go to the media.


I understand your point but I'm not sure how it relates mine. I was talking about early on in the sequence of events. Before most of the details about who did or didn't do what they should or shouldn't have done came out. Some people were mourning the loss of a great coach and seemed to have little or no regard for the victims.
 
2013-03-18 08:21:49 PM  

Philbb: Some people were mourning the loss of a great coach and seemed to have little or no regard for the victims.


jo pa
 
2013-03-18 08:24:51 PM  

serial_crusher: tlars699: Teaching everybody that rape is not funny, EVER;

Meh, plenty of crimes can be funny without people thinking engaging in them is a good idea.  How many times would the three stooges have been guilty of assault if they tried their antics in real life?

Teach people that it's not funny when real people are raped (unless they're celebrities, who aren't generally regarded as "real people", but are also used to public scrutiny so shouldn't have a problem), but to say that it's not funny ever?  Not even a 40lb box of rape, or the "you gonna get raped" guy?


I gotta say that I inwardly wince whenever I see those memes.  I pretty sure that the only male Farkers them funny.
 
2013-03-18 08:39:20 PM  
WhippingBoy:
Of course. And most people (MEN included) do teach their children these things. But how do you force irresponsible parents to teach their children? How do you teach sociopaths right from wrong?

You can't force irresponsible parents to become responsible, unfortunately.  But you can call their kids out on their bad behavior.   The problem with sociopaths is that they know the difference between right and wrong, but they just don't care.  Avoid them as much as possible, and again, call them out on their behavior.
 
2013-03-18 08:55:00 PM  

Galileo's Daughter: call them out on their behavior.


and kick their asses.
 
2013-03-18 08:58:37 PM  

The Muthaship: However, there was a report on the radio today that said 3 eye witnesses testified to the acts of these two individuals.  These 3 had recorded video of the girl naked and were granted immunity to testify to what was done to the girl..


I'm not finding a story about 3 witnesses testifying, care to provide a link? I've read about one witness being granted immunity.
 
2013-03-18 09:03:17 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: The Muthaship: However, there was a report on the radio today that said 3 eye witnesses testified to the acts of these two individuals.  These 3 had recorded video of the girl naked and were granted immunity to testify to what was done to the girl..

I'm not finding a story about 3 witnesses testifying, care to provide a link? I've read about one witness being granted immunity.


Oh look, the first google result when you google "Steubenville testimony"

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/15/justice/ohio-steubenville-case/index.h tm l
 
2013-03-18 09:08:05 PM  
Candy Crowley bulked up.
 
2013-03-18 09:15:20 PM  
The father of the black kid is on CNN right now. Sounds like there's some bullshiat going on.
 
2013-03-18 09:37:15 PM  
for all the dick heads that don't get it

you'd okay if i do that to your sister?
 
2013-03-18 09:43:36 PM  

Bontesla: ekdikeo4: I just heard something vaguely disturbing about this.  According to something that was just on a local news story, this girl was raped at "several" parties over the course of several days.  Not to even remotely say that the guys weren't wrong to do what they did, but .. this girl needs some help, too.

There were several parties that spanned a single night. She was no longer in control of herself (couldn't walk or talk) by the second party and was unconscious by the third (two players were dragging her in and out).

There's some speculation that date rapes drugs were used but there girl learned about her own violation from twitter so there was very little chemical evidence left to collect via a drug test.

The boys belonged to you Rape Squad. A name they gave themselves before that night.

It's quite likely that they've raped before. This girl was an outsider and stepped forward.


Pretty farkin sick.
 
2013-03-18 10:22:52 PM  
I think the sad thing here is if those two guys had just had sex with the girl, this would be a non-story or maybe just a small one. But they did so much more, and on top of that taped it, and then shared it around school. Sorry media, I can't have sympathy for those kids. People who have that sense of entitlement are dangerous, and we should all be considering ourselves lucky they didn't make it to college/NFL with egos like that.
 
2013-03-18 10:28:04 PM  

Zumaki: I think the sad thing here is if those two guys had just had sex with the girl, this would be a non-story or maybe just a small one. But they did so much more, and on top of that taped it, and then shared it around school. Sorry media, I can't have sympathy for those kids. People who have that sense of entitlement are dangerous, and we should all be considering ourselves lucky they didn't make it to college/NFL with egos like that.


Yea, it never would have been prosecuted, like a lot of rapes, had it not been for the fact that they were proud of what they were doing and wanted people to see.
 
2013-03-18 10:46:35 PM  

tlars699: Teaching everybody that rape is not funny, EVER;


Rape can be funny.  Death can be funny.  Dementia can be funny.  Genocide can be funny.  AIDS can be funny.  Bankruptcy can be funny.  Unemployment can be funny.  Everything can be funny.  And does not imply condoning the behavior or events.  The 40lbs box of rape is funny because that's what it said.  It's funny because it is ludicrous to consider quantifying rape in pounds, containing it in a box, or what would happen when opened.  I do know several rape jokes that could seem offensive or even threatening if told to enough random people.  I make a point of always taking context and audience into consideration with all of my speech, not just jokes.  I work with a black guy I can share the latest racial joke I've heard to.  But there are boundaries there too and some I just don't care to share with him.  I know some domestic violence jokes that I've got to know someone for a while before they will get brought up.  Whereas there are more people than I share them with who would enjoy them, I do not want to share them with someone who might actually want to hi-five afterwards.  Or have some similar sentimentality.

Rape is not funny.  Rape jokes, as with any jokes, are very much context, intent and content sensitive.
 
2013-03-18 11:05:24 PM  
i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-03-19 12:40:09 AM  
And once again, the Onion is both prescient and painfully on the nose.   From 2011.
 
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