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(Opposing Views)   CNN host Candy Crowley and reporter Poppy Harlow are almost in tears over the "ruined lives" of the two Steubenville, Ohio teen football players who were found guilty of gang-raping a 16-year-old girl   (opposingviews.com) divider line 659
    More: Sick, Steubenville, Candy Crowley, Poppy Harlow, CNN, CNN host, Ohio, guilty verdicts, rapists  
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20137 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2013 at 6:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 11:21:37 AM

vudukungfu: badhatharry: A big problem is that she was brought to multiple parties and nobody stopped them.

Who supplied the alcohol?
If it had been Ecstasy or heroin, you better believe there would be an all out man hunt to find out where the impairment substances came from.
Not One Word About where the alcohol came from.


I'm hoping Malik cooperates with the police. He did seem sincere in his apology.
 
2013-03-18 11:21:38 AM

Biological Ali: True, the dog thing might make sense if they knew you had a dog beforehand. The point I'm trying to make, though, is that everything you've brought up can be covered by basic questions like "Did you notice any damage or evidence of tampering on locks or windows?" or "Can you tell me who had access to your apartment?" Going out out of the way to ask pointed questions like "Oh, did you forget to lock your door?" doesn't contribute anything to the investigative process - it would just be the cop being a dick.


So, assholes on the Internet say that kind of thing about rape victims.  They also say that kind of thing about robbery victims.
Do cops say that sort of thing about rape victims?  I've never been involved in a rape investigation, but I'd imagine they'd phrase it as sensitively as the examples you gave about the robbery.

My point is that people are mistaking the necessary questions for pointed ones.  Otherwise they have no reason to fear reporting to the cops.
 
2013-03-18 11:22:42 AM

kingoomieiii: The difference is that people are actually interested in dealing with the SOURCE of the crime (theft), not just learning how to avoid being a victim of it.


I disagree... How committed to ending poverty and crime in places like ghettos and projects do you really think our government is? Want to know what i hear about it? "They need to stop being lazy and get a hard working job and earn a living instead of being lazy and living off the government tit". Yeah, that sounds real committed to dealing with the SOURCE of crime...

Also, car stereo theft prevention comes from common sense... it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you're in a neighborhood where every business has steel shutters protecting the windows, that you don't advertise your expensive car stereo and you don't leave your doors unlocked or your keys in the ignition... that's called common sense...

It should be common sense that a girl going to a binge party is entering the ghetto of sexual conduct, and drinking to black out is dangerous and presents an easier opportunity for a rapist to commit rape...

kingoomieiii: The second a woman goes on Fox News and makes the equivalent argument for rape, she gets racist death threats.


I think the same thing would happen if a white person on fox news made an argument for car stereo theft in the projects... but since i don't watch fox news, i wouldn't know

kingoomieiii: Rape prevention" has nothing to do with 'prevention'.



Here's what the first hit on google search for "rape prevention" has as it's nomber 2 bullet point:

"Reducing modifiable risk factors"

which is literally, reduce your risk will help prevent you from being raped... i.e. don't go to a party and get drunk enough to black out... i'm not blaming the victim, the fault lies on the criminal, what i am saying is that if you aren't going to use some basic common sense, then you are just making it easier for crime to occur

i will say it again, we don't live in a crime free utopia, this isn't about "boys will be boys" this is "Hey, Stupid! In case you haven't heard, this world is filled with rapists, and they aren't going to go away over night, so be smart, use some common sense and don't put yourself at risk to become a victim. This includes going to a party packed with horny men, and drink until you black out..."
 
2013-03-18 11:23:03 AM
sucks for the victim but 16 year old drinking at a party? sounds like she made some bad decisions of her own there too
 
2013-03-18 11:23:45 AM

ginandbacon: Snowflake Tubbybottom: hat is where we can blame the most victims

Telling comment, that.


Do tell how advocating that increasing the reporting of rape makes me a bad persdon.  I'm anxiously awaiting your enlightened response.
 
2013-03-18 11:25:32 AM

Hella Fark: sucks for the victim but 16 year old drinking at a party? sounds like she made some bad decisions of her own there too


You are precisely why there is something seriously wrong in this world? How do you live with yourself by blaming the victim?
 
2013-03-18 11:26:34 AM

theMightyRegeya: our jock culture.

Seriously.

Think about it.  Rape culture doesn't explain people who are animal lovers, but got angry because Michael Vick's career was ruined.

People love their bread and circuses more than they love their mothers, wives, and daughters.  It's sick.


Exactly.  It's not that as a culture we love rape, it's just that as a culture we love our athletes more than we don't love rape.  And jock culture could really almost be extended to just celebrity culture, which would be why people like Chris Brown and Charlie Sheen still have careers.
 
2013-03-18 11:30:26 AM

Hella Fark: sucks for the victim but 16 year old drinking at a party? sounds like she made some bad decisions of her own there too


Hanging with this crowd and having a drinking problem... Yes. There is personal responsibility issue there. As to being raped she is entirely a victim without an ounce of blame IMO.
 
2013-03-18 11:30:42 AM

Hella Fark: sucks for the victim but 16 year old drinking at a party? sounds like she made some bad decisions of her own there too


Yeah would have been much better if they had just sat around smoking pot.

/never blacked out while potted up on weed
 
2013-03-18 11:34:29 AM

kingoomieiii: Also, I liked all the people talking about how this is a "cautionary tale" about using social media. In the old days, athletes beat rape charges by hiding evidence, not posting it online!


If it wasn't for Anon, this case would have been completely buried.
 
2013-03-18 11:34:57 AM

vudukungfu: What kind of parents do these animals have?


I think it might be more than just the parents. After all, the entire thread is about how three reporters have taken up for these degenerates, excusing their actions, and framing their reports in the context of how the perpetrators are somehow "victimized" by the incredibly light consequences of their own actions. The media is probably more culpable than they are willing to admit. From the graphic depiction of horrible acts, to the objectification and degradation of women, to simple talking points like "rape-rape", they down-play the significance of common human decency and mutual respect. A parent has to pretty much become a dreaded "helicopter parent" to battle the constant assault of such imagery.
 
2013-03-18 11:37:15 AM

Waxing_Chewbacca: So there was NO sex. Didn't happen. She passed out and pics were taken. That's what you believe? I think we can agree she was in no condition to consent which is as good as a NO in my book.


I never said there was no sex, the guys admitted to finger banging her. What's disputed is whether or not it was consensual. I've seen no proof that it was or wasn't. In a court, lack of proof goes to the defendant each and every time.
 
2013-03-18 11:37:56 AM

Waxing_Chewbacca: trappedspirit: Somebody is really looking hard for something here.  That's what is sick about this.

???


Nobody is "almost in tears".  They use a still frame of Candy Crowley in mid-speech to make it look like this is almost true and a freaking story about the verdict, which they actually did once, is just plain troll material.
 
2013-03-18 11:38:30 AM

PiffMan420: kingoomieiii: Also, I liked all the people talking about how this is a "cautionary tale" about using social media. In the old days, athletes beat rape charges by hiding evidence, not posting it online!

If it wasn't for Anon, this case would have been completely buried.


I'm not as familiar with the genesis of Anon's involvement. I was mistaken in my thought that it was social media alone that brought this to a head. Can I get a quick synopsis or is it more involved?
 
2013-03-18 11:41:45 AM

serial_crusher: Do cops say that sort of thing about rape victims?


Here's a brief passage from Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature:

Police often treated rape as a joke, pressing the victim for pornographic details or dismissing her with wisecracks like "Who'd want to rape you?" or "A rape victim is a prostitute who doesn't get paid."

The reason rape is so under-reported isn't just because rape itself is such a traumatizing crime - it's because rape victims have historically been subjected to treatment, even by authorities, that no other victims of any crime have had to face.
 
2013-03-18 11:42:01 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Waxing_Chewbacca: So there was NO sex. Didn't happen. She passed out and pics were taken. That's what you believe? I think we can agree she was in no condition to consent which is as good as a NO in my book.

I never said there was no sex, the guys admitted to finger banging her. What's disputed is whether or not it was consensual. I've seen no proof that it was or wasn't. In a court, lack of proof goes to the defendant each and every time.


You saw pics. You heard stories about her condition!!! She was beyond wasted!!! Do believe she COULD consent? Apparently yes.

Unreal... So it's not violent and its consensual if she doesn't move and can barely speak due to alcohol. You're a sick fark.
 
2013-03-18 11:44:10 AM

trappedspirit: Waxing_Chewbacca: trappedspirit: Somebody is really looking hard for something here.  That's what is sick about this.

???

Nobody is "almost in tears".  They use a still frame of Candy Crowley in mid-speech to make it look like this is almost true and a freaking story about the verdict, which they actually did once, is just plain troll material.


Ah... K. Didn't get where you were coming from.
 
2013-03-18 11:44:59 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Waxing_Chewbacca: So there was NO sex. Didn't happen. She passed out and pics were taken. That's what you believe? I think we can agree she was in no condition to consent which is as good as a NO in my book.

I never said there was no sex, the guys admitted to finger banging her. What's disputed is whether or not it was consensual. I've seen no proof that it was or wasn't. In a court, lack of proof goes to the defendant each and every time.


The law says, pretty clearly, that consent cannot be given if you are under the influence of alcohol. You MUST be sober under Ohio law to give sexual consent.

Also, if you're passed out on the ground with people joking that you're "dead", you cannot give consent.

This isn't that hard to understand.
 
2013-03-18 11:45:49 AM

Waxing_Chewbacca: You saw pics. You heard stories about her condition!!! She was beyond wasted!!! Do believe she COULD consent? Apparently yes.


At what point of the evening were those pics taken? Her friend testified that she had been drinking and willingly left with the two guys. You want us to believe that she was all Weekend at Bernied and being dragged around from party to party or something.

You seem to think it's impossible that she could have gave consent and that's just not true.
 
2013-03-18 11:47:07 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Waxing_Chewbacca: You saw pics. You heard stories about her condition!!! She was beyond wasted!!! Do believe she COULD consent? Apparently yes.

At what point of the evening were those pics taken? Her friend testified that she had been drinking and willingly left with the two guys. You want us to believe that she was all Weekend at Bernied and being dragged around from party to party or something.

You seem to think it's impossible that she could have gave consent and that's just not true.


YOU CANNOT GIVE LEGAL CONSENT IN OHIO IF YOU ARE NOT 100% SOBER.

/END OF GOD DAMN STORY ...
 
2013-03-18 11:48:46 AM

seadoo2006: YOU CANNOT GIVE LEGAL CONSENT IN OHIO IF YOU ARE NOT 100% SOBER.


So ever woman that has a drink and then has sex has the right to claim rape if they so choose? Bullshiat!
 
2013-03-18 11:48:54 AM

Waxing_Chewbacca: Hella Fark: sucks for the victim but 16 year old drinking at a party? sounds like she made some bad decisions of her own there too

Hanging with this crowd and having a drinking problem... Yes. There is personal responsibility issue there. As to being raped she is entirely a victim without an ounce of blame IMO.


He didn't say he blamed her. He said she made some bad decisions, and she did. All of us have made bad decisions that we might have had to face consequences for, even if we shouldn't have to face consequences.

The point isn't that she shouldn't have been raped. She shouldn't. In a crime-free utopia, she could get black-out drunk any time she wants and not have to worry about being raped.

The point is that rape will occur and sometimes we don't have an recourse for the victim. This time, she got lucky because she didn't lose her life, and they were able to punish her rapists. Her best defense is herself, and she needs to be cautious. I'm not saying that would have 100% prevented it, but it would have made it harder for her to end up in the position where she was easily taken advantage of by those people. Completely letting her guard down and not having anyone there to make sure she was safe was a mistake. The kids who took her vulnerability as an excuse to do whatever they wanted committed a crime.

These boys are getting off pretty easy, honestly. I feel bad for the victim. My only hope is that more people are held responsible for the part they played in this mess and that the victim finds the strength through this ordeal to learn from her mistake. Hopefully she can party responsibly in the future. Unfortunately, nothing she does will ever completely erase the threat of rape, and that is the saddest part in all of this.
 
2013-03-18 11:50:19 AM

StrangeQ: theMightyRegeya: our jock culture.

Seriously.

Think about it.  Rape culture doesn't explain people who are animal lovers, but got angry because Michael Vick's career was ruined.

People love their bread and circuses more than they love their mothers, wives, and daughters.  It's sick.

Exactly.  It's not that as a culture we love rape, it's just that as a culture we love our athletes more than we don't love rape.  And jock culture could really almost be extended to just celebrity culture, which would be why people like Chris Brown and Charlie Sheen still have careers.


Good point.  We sure love our celebrities, don't we?
 
2013-03-18 11:53:02 AM

Popcorn Johnny: seadoo2006: YOU CANNOT GIVE LEGAL CONSENT IN OHIO IF YOU ARE NOT 100% SOBER.

So ever woman that has a drink and then has sex has the right to claim rape if they so choose? Bullshiat!


Yes, under the law, you abstain from sex if you're not absolutely sure she's given you legal consent and yes, under the law in almost every state, you CANNOT give legal consent if you've been drinking.

Don't stick your dick in drunk ... not that hard to figure out.
 
2013-03-18 11:54:37 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Waxing_Chewbacca: You saw pics. You heard stories about her condition!!! She was beyond wasted!!! Do believe she COULD consent? Apparently yes.

At what point of the evening were those pics taken? Her friend testified that she had been drinking and willingly left with the two guys. You want us to believe that she was all Weekend at Bernied and being dragged around from party to party or something.

You seem to think it's impossible that she could have gave consent and that's just not true.


You are either beyond obtuse or working on your own defense.
 
2013-03-18 11:55:02 AM

feckingmorons: I have absolutely no sympathy for rapists.

They're lives weren't ruined when they were adjudicated delinquent (in juvenile court that is tantamount to a guilty verdict), their lives were ruined when they decided to be rapists.

They'll be in detention for a year or at most until they are 21.

Big fecking deal.


Seems to me that they're getting punished for being stupid enough to videotape it and post it. They would have gotten away with it otherwise.
 
2013-03-18 11:55:52 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Waxing_Chewbacca: You saw pics. You heard stories about her condition!!! She was beyond wasted!!! Do believe she COULD consent? Apparently yes.

At what point of the evening were those pics taken? Her friend testified that she had been drinking and willingly left with the two guys. You want us to believe that she was all Weekend at Bernied and being dragged around from party to party or something.

You seem to think it's impossible that she could have gave consent and that's just not true.


You seem to have some knowledge that no one outside that courtroom has.  When did the "fingerbanging" in your terms (that wasn't penetration per one of your earlier comments) occur relative to the incapacitation?

Assuming that you are trying to equate what we know publicly with what was presented as evidence in the courtroom, then you clearly understand that we might not know the entire story.  We do know it comes down to consent.  And in the pictures and video we have, she clearly is beyond consent.  I assume you agree with that, right?

So, your entire case, now in this thread, has been whittled down to when the penetration occurred relative to the incapacitation.  An absolutely relevant issue.   So, what information do you have?

I admit, I don't have any specific info on timing.  But I'm not willing to believe these boys who took these pics, posted them online, and took her drunk and passed out (to the point they refer to her as "dead"), and whom refer to themselves as some sort of Rape Gang, are somehow innocent by timing.  What they participated in that we can see on video is reprehensible, and consistent with the behavior to which they are accused.

Furthermore, at no time have I hear them argue that timing was key...only that she consented.  So, it may be possible that you are creating a defense that the accused (now convicted) aren't even relying upon.  Or did I miss that specific defense that she consented early on in the evening and the sex happened then, then she got so drunk that they had to Weekend at Bernie's her to the other parties where they thought pictures and video was a good idea to top off the romantic evening?

Your looking for any excuse here for their innocence strains credulity.  Unless you are privy to anything other than "just asking questions".
 
2013-03-18 11:57:19 AM

Celerian: Waxing_Chewbacca: Hella Fark: sucks for the victim but 16 year old drinking at a party? sounds like she made some bad decisions of her own there too

Hanging with this crowd and having a drinking problem... Yes. There is personal responsibility issue there. As to being raped she is entirely a victim without an ounce of blame IMO.

He didn't say he blamed her. He said she made some bad decisions, and she did. All of us have made bad decisions that we might have had to face consequences for, even if we shouldn't have to face consequences.

The point isn't that she shouldn't have been raped. She shouldn't. In a crime-free utopia, she could get black-out drunk any time she wants and not have to worry about being raped.

The point is that rape will occur and sometimes we don't have an recourse for the victim. This time, she got lucky because she didn't lose her life, and they were able to punish her rapists. Her best defense is herself, and she needs to be cautious. I'm not saying that would have 100% prevented it, but it would have made it harder for her to end up in the position where she was easily taken advantage of by those people. Completely letting her guard down and not having anyone there to make sure she was safe was a mistake. The kids who took her vulnerability as an excuse to do whatever they wanted committed a crime.

These boys are getting off pretty easy, honestly. I feel bad for the victim. My only hope is that more people are held responsible for the part they played in this mess and that the victim finds the strength through this ordeal to learn from her mistake. Hopefully she can party responsibly in the future. Unfortunately, nothing she does will ever completely erase the threat of rape, and that is the saddest part in all of this.


I wasn't disagreeing. I was pointing out that while bad decisions were made she has no responsibility as to the rape itself. No woman ever does. It is a heinous crime. I think we're on the same page here.
 
2013-03-18 11:58:06 AM
Ugh, any sympathy for these two douchebags makes me sick. Kids will drink until they get ossified. The girl was way too inebriated to say either yes or no if she wanted to be banged. I bet these two douchetards have always been told they were "special" and thus they think they can do whatever the fark they want. Now they know they can't. Good. Spoilted narcissistic bastards. Maybe someone will rape them in their new home.
 
2013-03-18 11:59:09 AM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: feckingmorons: I have absolutely no sympathy for rapists.

They're lives weren't ruined when they were adjudicated delinquent (in juvenile court that is tantamount to a guilty verdict), their lives were ruined when they decided to be rapists.

They'll be in detention for a year or at most until they are 21.

Big fecking deal.

Seems to me that they're getting punished for being stupid enough to videotape it and post it. They would have gotten away with it otherwise.


Seems to me they're getting punished for raping a girl
 
2013-03-18 11:59:41 AM

Popcorn Johnny: So ever woman that has a drink and then has sex has the right to claim rape if they so choose? Bullshiat!



Any woman can claim rape at any time. She can claim rape on a man who she's never even been in the same room with and wreck his year faster than a cancer diagnosis. The good news is that other than a handful of lunatics, this is exceedingly rare. Rape being underreported is a far more frequent problem than women falsely accusing men of it. That's where we should be placing our attention. A good first step would be not to automatically assume an accuser is some kind of vengeful whack job.
 
2013-03-18 12:00:34 PM

Waxing_Chewbacca: I wasn't disagreeing. I was pointing out that while bad decisions were made she has no responsibility as to the rape itself. No woman ever does. It is a heinous crime. I think we're on the same page here.


Yeah, it appears that way. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
2013-03-18 12:00:37 PM

bigworld: Good luck getting a respectable job or girlfriend down the road, fellas.


So, stick with the football career plan?
 
2013-03-18 12:00:45 PM

Celerian: He didn't say he blamed her. He said she made some bad decisions, and she did. All of us have made bad decisions that we might have had to face consequences for, even if we shouldn't have to face consequences.


This is a good point.  I left my car out of the garage and unlocked.  Bad decision.  Consequence?  I had my iPhone accessories stolen from the car.  I'm not to blame for the crime, but I could have been more careful and parked it in the garage or locked it.  If I'd done that, the odds of the kids stealing that (and leaving my CDs making me feel old) would have been a lot less.  Still, it was their crime.  Not mine.
 
2013-03-18 12:00:45 PM

Biological Ali: Here's a brief passage from Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature:

Police often treated rape as a joke, pressing the victim for pornographic details or dismissing her with wisecracks like "Who'd want to rape you?" or "A rape victim is a prostitute who doesn't get paid."


Wow, anybody who ever said either of those to a rape victim should be fired on the spot.
 
2013-03-18 12:02:48 PM

Celerian: Waxing_Chewbacca: I wasn't disagreeing. I was pointing out that while bad decisions were made she has no responsibility as to the rape itself. No woman ever does. It is a heinous crime. I think we're on the same page here.

Yeah, it appears that way. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


No worries. Heated topic is heated. The assholes claiming that she wanted it, consented or were asking for it have the majority of us here on a sort fuse ;)
 
2013-03-18 12:04:03 PM

Bullseyed: What's really amusing is when people who love CNN


The rest of the sentence is irrelevant. No one loves CNN.
 
2013-03-18 12:04:37 PM

I_C_Weener: Celerian: He didn't say he blamed her. He said she made some bad decisions, and she did. All of us have made bad decisions that we might have had to face consequences for, even if we shouldn't have to face consequences.

This is a good point.  I left my car out of the garage and unlocked.  Bad decision.  Consequence?  I had my iPhone accessories stolen from the car.  I'm not to blame for the crime, but I could have been more careful and parked it in the garage or locked it.  If I'd done that, the odds of the kids stealing that (and leaving my CDs making me feel old) would have been a lot less.  Still, it was their crime.  Not mine.


This is well put... Better than I and what I meant to say.
 
2013-03-18 12:05:20 PM

BarkingUnicorn: bigworld: Good luck getting a respectable job or girlfriend down the road, fellas.

So, stick with the football career plan?


Ohio State isn't too discriminating when it comes to football talent.  They will be okay.
 
2013-03-18 12:07:31 PM

poot_rootbeer: BarkingUnicorn: Halden holds 252 Norwegian prisoners at a cost of about $183,000 per inmate per year.  Average cost of federal, state, and local U. S. inmates was about $30,600 each per year in 2007; $74 billion total.  If all of those inmates were in  Halden, it would have cost over $441 billion per year.

If the Halden model rehabilitates criminals into productive members of society, and US prisons do nothing to limit recidivism and in fact foster an environment of career criminalism*, then what does it matter what their respective costs are.  One works, the other doesn't.

(* don't know if either part of this is proven true)


Norway's recidivism rate at 2 years is 20%, ours is in the 50% range.  Halden took its first inmates in 2010 so I'm pretty sure nothing about it is proven yet.

Nothing is good if you can't afford it.  Look  at the scorn Farkers heap upon mansions, yachts, and Red Lobster.
 
2013-03-18 12:14:10 PM

Magnanimous_J: The good news is that other than a handful of lunatics, this is exceedingly rare. Rape being underreported is a far more frequent problem than women falsely accusing men of it. That's where we should be placing our attention. A good first step would be not to automatically assume an accuser is some kind of vengeful whack job.


According to FBI stats and other studies, 8% of rape claims are unfounded. So tell me, should we lock all those guys up just to be sure we're not letting a rapist go free, or should we demand that there be proof of a crime?
 
2013-03-18 12:15:34 PM

serial_crusher: Biological Ali: True, the dog thing might make sense if they knew you had a dog beforehand. The point I'm trying to make, though, is that everything you've brought up can be covered by basic questions like "Did you notice any damage or evidence of tampering on locks or windows?" or "Can you tell me who had access to your apartment?" Going out out of the way to ask pointed questions like "Oh, did you forget to lock your door?" doesn't contribute anything to the investigative process - it would just be the cop being a dick.

So, assholes on the Internet say that kind of thing about rape victims.  They also say that kind of thing about robbery victims.
Do cops say that sort of thing about rape victims?  I've never been involved in a rape investigation, but I'd imagine they'd phrase it as sensitively as the examples you gave about the robbery.

My point is that people are mistaking the necessary questions for pointed ones.  Otherwise they have no reason to fear reporting to the cops.


The rape victims I knew (internship) didn't fear explaining what happened. They feared being accused of making it up, retaliation from their attacker, and the public exposure for their rape.

It was never the police taking down the complaint and we always offered to have a same sex officer present to help calm the victim.

In this particular example - the police seemed to do okay. They weren't the ones making harassing phone calls and online death threats. There's a social stigma we've placed on rape victims.

It's easy for someone to say, "I'm just not the type that would place myself in a situation to be raped. What did you do?"

And should the attacker refuse to plea out and this goes to trial? She better have defensive wounds and biological evidence to establish A). Sexual contact and B). That contact was unwanted. And she better be damned convincing on the stand because there's little hope of winning without a very public testimony about a very intimate and sexual trauma. Her attacker's attorney will also be trying to convince the jury that she wasn't being clear about refusing his advances.
 
2013-03-18 12:16:15 PM

TV's Vinnie: [i470.photobucket.com image 500x333]

Notice that what gives these Loverboys such a pass by these media cretins is that they were "promising star football players". Like as if that dirty slut destroyed some billionaire a couple of draft picks for his college football racket. Boo farking hoo hoo hoo! Seems this culture really needs a brain enema to flush out this football jock worship they have. Football is NOT everything.


Sadly, that depends on where you live. In many small towns the high school game has better attendance than the churches combined. (And don't think there are a significant number of non-self-identifying Christians in those towns.)

skreened.com
 
2013-03-18 12:21:13 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Magnanimous_J: The good news is that other than a handful of lunatics, this is exceedingly rare. Rape being underreported is a far more frequent problem than women falsely accusing men of it. That's where we should be placing our attention. A good first step would be not to automatically assume an accuser is some kind of vengeful whack job.

According to FBI stats and other studies, 8% of rape claims are unfounded. So tell me, should we lock all those guys up just to be sure we're not letting a rapist go free, or should we demand that there be proof of a crime?


Where you in the courtroom? Did you hear all the evidence? No and no. The judge did and agrees with 90% of us who heard what has been reported. Your crusade to exonerate these two is disturbing. A bit up thread you stated that while she may have been drunk at one point she sobered up and wanted it. farking troglodyte.
 
2013-03-18 12:23:03 PM
I have a pretty good idea for punishment of rapists.  They have those chastity belt things with a key, basically handcuffs for the offenders genetailia where if he were to become aroused without removing it it would be very painful, plus he woudl not be able to have intercourse with it on.  Convicted of rape, in addition to standard prison time you get one of those, your parole officer gets the key.  You keep it until you are deemed worthy of not being a threat.  Should you encounter a lady/or man that consents to sex, the offender has to call his parole officer to come and verify consent and then remove chastity belt.  Sexual training wheels/ penis house arrest for those who lack the empathy involved in having truly meaningful sex.
 
2013-03-18 12:23:20 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Waxing_Chewbacca: You saw pics. You heard stories about her condition!!! She was beyond wasted!!! Do believe she COULD consent? Apparently yes.

At what point of the evening were those pics taken? Her friend testified that she had been drinking and willingly left with the two guys. You want us to believe that she was all Weekend at Bernied and being dragged around from party to party or something.

You seem to think it's impossible that she could have gave consent and that's just not true.


See here... Sobered up later and wanted it. As I said.. You're a farking troglodyte
 
2013-03-18 12:29:23 PM
As a Steubenville native, I want to apologize for my hometown.

Really, really apologize.

Though, honestly, I can see the cultural split that's causing this particular mentality in the area. Steubenville's a steel town, used to even be divided by ethnic lines. The places of worship in the lower city are most telling. The Irish Catholic Church (St. Peter's), the now closed Polish Catholic Church (St Stanislaus'), the Greek orthodox church that I can never remember the name of, the Jewish synagogue. And then there's the Franciscan University of Steubenville, a hub of the charismatic Catholic Church. All of these religious organizations lead to the older generations being fire and brimstone, the middle generation being divided three ways: between hyper religious zealots connected in some way to the University and thus either home schooled or attending the catholic high school (CCHS) with the more moderate families, the moderate families sending their children to either SHS or CCHS, and the rest of the city which contains working families, religious rejectionists, meth heads, drug dealers, and folks who could give a shiat about their kids.

In that mix comes SHS football. The town's only distraction from the downward spiral the region is in at the moment. They're going to protect it, idiotically, since other sports *cough*Swimming*cough* have a better overall record in the past decade or so.

Hmm, I think I over-ranted, I'm shutting up now.
 
2013-03-18 12:30:33 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Magnanimous_J: The good news is that other than a handful of lunatics, this is exceedingly rare. Rape being underreported is a far more frequent problem than women falsely accusing men of it. That's where we should be placing our attention. A good first step would be not to automatically assume an accuser is some kind of vengeful whack job.

According to FBI stats and other studies, 8% of rape claims are unfounded. So tell me, should we lock all those guys up just to be sure we're not letting a rapist go free, or should we demand that there be proof of a crime?



Considering that half of rapes go unreported, it is the much bigger problem. There are no easy answers, as it so often comes down to he said/ she said. In this case, it seems much more cut and dry. Other cases are much trickier.


However, the idea that prisons are filled up with falsely accused men is just not realistic.
 
2013-03-18 12:32:29 PM

Waxing_Chewbacca: Where you in the courtroom? Did you hear all the evidence? No and no. The judge did and agrees with 90% of us who heard what has been reported. Your crusade to exonerate these two is disturbing. A bit up thread you stated that while she may have been drunk at one point she sobered up and wanted it. farking troglodyte.


I didn't state any such thing, stop blatantly lying and distorting what I said. I said that we have no way of knowing when those pictures were taken in relation to when the sexual contact happened. I guess you're going to continue ignoring testimony that the girl willingly went with the guys and lashed out at one of her friends that tried to stop her from leaving.

Did you hear all the evidence? Do you believe that judges always act on the facts and never on public pressure or their own beliefs?

I've said over and over that I have no way of knowing exactly what happened and would like to see more evidence. You seem fine with labeling them as rapists without having all the facts. You're the one that's farked up in the head, not me.
 
2013-03-18 12:32:55 PM

HAMMERTOE: A parent has to pretty much become a dreaded "helicopter parent" to battle the constant assault of such imagery.


Well, Mine weren't, but I knew how much trouble I'd be in if something like that was happening and I didn't put a stop to it. Not that I would have needed to stop and think about it. You see that happening, you stop it.
You use the minimal amount of force, but feel free to use up to and including deadly force to stop a rape.
 
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