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(CBS News)   Paul Ryan: "There is no debt crisis" Congrats on losing the conservative vote in 2016, schmuck   (cbsnews.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, debt crisis, Amy Klobuchar, Erskine Bowles, Boehner, global currency  
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3887 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Mar 2013 at 5:52 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-18 08:41:45 AM  

Thats No Moose: THANK YOU.

I'm tired of hearing the "Reserve Currency" BS.


Worked well for Zimbabwe?
 
2013-03-18 09:04:21 AM  

DamnYankees: But, Ryan added, a crisis is "irrefutably" on its way.

Yes, because you are so reliable about what is and is not refutable.


To be fair, it's impossible to refute something that hasn't happened yet.
 
2013-03-18 10:53:50 AM  

TheDarkSaintOfGin: TheDarkSaintOfGin: TheDarkSaintOfGin: DamnYankees: OgreMagi: Anyone who claims we can continue to go deeper into debt with no consequences has obviously not been paying attention to history or current world events.  Multiple countries in Europe believed they could spend forever and are now discovering how untrue that is.  Greece, Spain, Italy, Cyprus, etc.  They're all farked.

At the moment Germany is paying to keep the EU from completely falling apart, but they're starting to get annoyed at having to pay for everyone else's mistakes.  Trust me, you don't want to annoy the Germans.  That never ends well.

We're heading down the same road as the EU.

It's very rare for someone to display such a confidence misunderstand of monetary economics. I'm EXTREMELY impressed.

Fun Fact: We're 5th in the world expected to go belly up, guess who 1-4 is: Greece, Spain, Ireland, (this one is a little more obscure) Japan, and then us.  USA, USA, USA.  This is according to the Sovereignty Vulnerability Index.

Let me correct myself... Just looked it up, its been updated since I got my data: Greece, Japan, Portugal, Ireland, USA.  At least we're holding steady?

STILL old data.. ANYWAY-

here's how its judged-  https://www2.blackrock.com/webcore/litService/search/getDocument.seam ? venue=PUB_IND&source=GLOBAL&contentId=1111142235

to be honest, I can't find anything beyond my own notes from the seminar I attended on rankings, that I'll concede.  I do know that particural lecture was given by one Dr. Clay Moffett.  Take it or leave it.


1) please warn PDF/doc reader.

2) there is a suspicious lack of background info for this measure in a regular Google or a Google scholar search.

3) this link does NOT say what you say it does. On page 7 of 12 the chart clearly has the US in the positive and in the middle of the spectrum.


Thanks for failing!
 
2013-03-18 11:50:53 AM  
Folks, Paul Ryan is a math guy and a policy wonk. If he says there's no debt crisis, there's clearly no debt crisis. As long as we defund Obamacare.
 
2013-03-18 11:55:34 AM  

m00: The Why Not Guy: Where were the Tea Party and those "deeply held beliefs" prior to January of 2009?

Marginalized by the mainstream media. A lot of conservatives were unhappy about Bush's spending. You just didn't hear about it on FOX or MSNBC.


Does that goalpost have wheels, or is it really heavy to move?
 
2013-03-18 12:51:54 PM  
This is no different than what he's always said, tardmitter.

We're on a course that will present huge problems, and relative to many other nations we're the best turd in the toilet.  There's time to fix it, and that's the point.  Do responsible people maintain their homes correctly, or do they wait until it's on fire to clear out the hoarded newspapers?
 
2013-03-18 01:19:47 PM  

SenorPez: m00: The Why Not Guy: Where were the Tea Party and those "deeply held beliefs" prior to January of 2009?

Marginalized by the mainstream media. A lot of conservatives were unhappy about Bush's spending. You just didn't hear about it on FOX or MSNBC.

Does that goalpost have wheels, or is it really heavy to move?


It's got a hemi
 
2013-03-18 02:21:50 PM  

m00: themindiswatching: m00: themindiswatching: Didn't we already debunk this talking point hundreds of times already?

Im curious, which part was debunked?

The part where it was Obama's fault.

Ah. Yes, in the pursuit of internet arguing I've studied the budget from Bush through Obama years. The deficit certainly grew under the Obama administration (deficit, different than debt. Obviously debt grew too) because the budget increased. Every year since 2007, more money was spent than the previous year. But year-to-year who is responsible... the Executive or Congress? The budget process includes both of them. Democrats held the house and senate until 2010. I guess you could say Bush was responsible for the entire cost of the Iraq war (including under Obama), but I was following politics in 2001 and about half of senate Democrats and a third of house Democrats voted for it.

I guess I'm not really interested in laying blame at this point, other than holding government collectively responsible for coming up with a solution. This isn't about what party "wins" or "loses." The only losers are us, and the only winners are the political class who keeps getting re-elected because their campaigns are funded by PACs and anonymous wealthy donors who benefit from policies that harm the rest of us.


Here is the problem.  There is no problem.  Yes, deficits need to be reduced/eliminated.  There are two times you can't care about deficits, though - war and depression.  When things were humming along (no pun) under Clinton, that was a great time to nun a surplus.  Bush took that, shiat on it immediately and then had 9/11 happen to him and gave himself a war.  Then he made it worse by choosing to have another one.  Ok, so fark.  We have a debit problem.  Then we have recessionapocolips right at the end of Bush.  I know people hate it when people like me blame Bush for Obama's problems with the budget, but man, you couldn't have dug a deeper hole if you tried.  Low recipts made even lower by people being out of work, eight years of cuts to jobs programs.  Thousands of disabled vets and more with brain fark who will never work right.  The financial system tripping balls sideways because the earth melted and never goten over the hangover.  My god, it's amazing that Obama hasn't just said "fark it!"

But at the end of that, there is no problem.  Deficits will reduce as the economy improves and we grow our way out of it.  Throwing people out on the street and not investing in America is not the way to grow an economy or preserve America's soul.  So here's the final point, REPUBLICANS KNOW THIS AND ARE JUST BLOWING shiat.
 
2013-03-18 02:42:46 PM  

plewis: Deficits will reduce as the economy improves and we grow our way out of it.


Actaully, most folks will disagee with you here.

Yes, growth is a part of the solution to the problem, but it must also be addressed by cutting spending and increasing revenues. There is no getting around that.  We also need to be very careful about what kind of growth we want.  I think that we can agree that building growth on the back of debt and loose money will likely end us back on fiscal curb and will erase any headway we may have made.

Putting that aside for a bit, from CBO estimates, deficits will continue to decrease some as the economy continues to find its footing.  However, that trend is extpected to be pretty short as the increase in entitlements will start to strip away any ground we make up.   Here in about 5 years, deficits are again expected to increase and this will put more pressure on our fiscal health.
 
2013-03-18 02:54:10 PM  
Debt crisis in the future, yeah we know.  What are you going to do about the job crisis right now?  Or the disparity of income vs. inflation?  If minimum wage kept up with inflation over the past 30 years it'd be over $11 an hour right now.  What are you going to do about the rising costs of healthcare or education, besides cutting taxes for people that can already easily afford those things?

"Not my problem," isn't an answer.
 
2013-03-18 03:31:00 PM  

heap: were, too. wherewolves of london.


There wolf.
There castle.
There tree.
 
2013-03-18 03:33:29 PM  

MattStafford: Thats No Moose: THANK YOU.

I'm tired of hearing the "Reserve Currency" BS.

Worked well for Zimbabwe?


is that on some desert island, somewhere?
 
2013-03-18 03:34:38 PM  

burning_bridge: What are you going to do about the job crisis right now? Or the disparity of income vs. inflation? If minimum wage kept up with inflation over the past 30 years it'd be over $11 an hour right now.


Get rid of free trade?  There is a reason why our wages are under pressure in a new world economy.  Much of it does not have to do with Republican or Democratic fiscal policies.
 
m00
2013-03-19 10:28:30 AM  

heap: in that, there isn't much disagreement - but you've got to acknowledge we've went from 'a lot of conservatives disagreed' to 'messageboards' to 'a guy at cato' - if that isn't erosion of the point defined, i don't know what is


My interaction with conservatives is two-fold. Messageboards and in real life. What additional interactions do you have with people? I'm curious...

I am simply telling you my personal observation. I can't prove real life conversations. I found some links to message board threads from the early 2000s but again the response would be "oh you found 20 threads out of millions, whoop-dee-do." So I thought I'd go with the Cato institute since this all started talking about the tea party.

Basically there is zero evidence you would ever except to refute your point. So I don't know why I bother to waste my time trying to find any. Guess I got trolled.
 
2013-03-19 11:08:28 AM  
Gee, this thread turned interesting.

Me happy.

In a way.

Thanks, m00.

Thanks heap.

Thanks plewis.
 
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