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(CBC)   If you've ever wanted to die on Mars, here's your chance   (cbc.ca) divider line 194
    More: Cool, Red Planet  
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12251 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2013 at 2:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-17 07:12:26 PM
People routinely go far away, never expecting to come back.
Why is Mars any different?
 
2013-03-17 07:18:22 PM

WippitGuud: Gawdzila: WippitGuud: God did.

Well to be fair, we're the ones who invented CO2-spewing engines and industrial processes.

Wait... that stuff warms the climate?

Why am I the first to hear about this?


Yes, but the bigger point in this instance would be to create a thicker atmosphere that can be consumed by plants to make oxygen.
A thicker atmosphere would hold more heat no matter WHAT it was made of simply because there is more atmosphere there to be warmed.
 
2013-03-17 07:19:58 PM
I don't think there will be a shortage of applicants. It's a sure way to fame and glory, and for all the right reasons.
 
2013-03-17 07:21:18 PM

Gawdzila: StoPPeRmobile: Yeah, how much nitrogen is on Mar?

There's not much of ANYTHING in the Martian atmosphere.  If you're talking about making a breathable atmosphere, though, nitrogen isn't strictly necessary.  It just acts as a non-reactive "filler" gas that keeps the oxygen concentration from being toxic.


Well, it was the suggestion of Trees being CO2 producers as a solution that made the question appear.
 
2013-03-17 07:21:38 PM
Setup a reality show about it.  Beam it back to Earth. Survivors Mars.  Rating should be good.
 
2013-03-17 07:21:49 PM

twfeline: People routinely go far away, never expecting to come back.
Why is Mars any different?


Umm.. well...
For one, the fact that there isn't a way back even if they WANTED to.
For two, the fact that the very environment is extremely inhospitable to life and will almost assuredly kill them before long.
This isn't really comparable to packing up and moving to China or something.
 
2013-03-17 07:24:07 PM
Honest Bender Or maybe you'd like to explain how we can leave Earth and land on another planet, yet can't seem to leave Mars and land on another planet...

I'm reminded of a quote from Alpha Centauri:
I have often been asked: if we have traveled between the stars, why can we not launch the simplest of orbital probes? These fools fail to understand the difficulty of finding the appropriate materials on this Planet, of developing adequate power supplies, and creating the infrastructure necessary to support such an effort. In short, we have struggled under the limitations of a colonial society on a virgin planet. Until now.
- Col. Corazon Santiago, "Planet: A Survivalist's Guide"
 
2013-03-17 07:25:49 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Gawdzila: StoPPeRmobile: Yeah, how much nitrogen is on Mar?

There's not much of ANYTHING in the Martian atmosphere.  If you're talking about making a breathable atmosphere, though, nitrogen isn't strictly necessary.  It just acts as a non-reactive "filler" gas that keeps the oxygen concentration from being toxic.

Well, it was the suggestion of Trees being CO2 producers as a solution that made the question appear.


I didn't suggest that because they're not; they're oxygen producers.  Industrial processes and burning hydrocarbons produces CO2, though.
 
2013-03-17 07:46:51 PM

Zemog: Half-baked, goggle-box do-gooders go around telling everybody it's bad for you. Pernicious nonsense!


You ever feel as if your mind had started to erode? Well, you will if you try to go to Mars.

Probably the only person here who gets called out often for being ooc from their handle. But i couldn't in good conscience tell people radiation is good for them. I still talk about radiation a lot, though. Also talk about aliens a fair bit, which is more in character. The two have more in common than you might think.
 
2013-03-17 07:53:11 PM

Gawdzila: StoPPeRmobile: Yeah, how much nitrogen is on Mar?

There's not much of ANYTHING in the Martian atmosphere.  If you're talking about making a breathable atmosphere, though, nitrogen isn't strictly necessary.  It just acts as a non-reactive "filler" gas that keeps the oxygen concentration from being toxic.



Maybe people don't need nitrogen, but plants do
 
2013-03-17 08:13:12 PM

Stone Meadow: sporkme: Stone Meadow: Jon iz teh kewl: xanadian: Mars is no place to raise your kids.

neither is Jupiter
maybe we should 3D print a planet

Why settle for a planet?

I am reading the Ringworld series so I am getting a kick. Good books, liked Niven since I read Lucifer's Hammer.

I had never heard of Niven until I returned from Peace Corps service in 1980, when I purchased a paperback copy of Ringworld (which I still have and have read many times). Since then I've purchased and read nearly everything he's written. Not a convention-going fanboy, mind you, tho I do support by favorite artists by buying copies of their words.

/when you need a break from RW read Destiny's Road and cringe at the errors missed by the editor for a complete change of Niven pace...


There, fixed that for you.  Also if you haven't already, pick up copies of The Integral Trees and The Smoke Ring, which are set in the same story universe (but no overlap in characters or even planets with Destiny's Road).  I believe it's the same story universe as the Beowulf's Children pair of novels but am not certain.

Be very certain to not read the inside-cover blurb of Integral Trees.  Niven sets you up to believe a particular false thing without ever coming out and saying it, but if you're paying attention you can figure out the truth yourself.  The truth is revealed in Smoke Ring as part of the plot -- but the blurb from some idiot publisher monkey printed inside Integral Trees flat out tells you the wrong things.

/over_and_done for the State
//over_and_done for the State
///over_and_done for the State
 
2013-03-17 08:15:58 PM
J. Frank Parnell:

Probably the only person here who gets called out often for being ooc from their handle. But i couldn't in good conscience tell people radiation is good for them.

...and now I realize, after all this time, why your name sounded familiar.

Tell me, what opinion do you have on the nutrition factor of vending machine sandwiches?
 
2013-03-17 08:29:53 PM

slimfast:


Is that the one where they all get scurvy but for some reason don't figure it out until it is almost too late?
 
2013-03-17 08:32:28 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-17 09:22:34 PM

Munchkin City Coroner: way south: Pick: Does Mars have a 2nd Amendment in it's Constituition?

What are the tax laws on Mars?

Is Mars a democracy or a dictatorship?

How much are property taxes on Mars?

Is the food good and inexpensive there?

These questions and many more need to be answered before I commit.

I'd imagine a mars colony would have the rules of whichever nation sent it.
If it was put there by a corporation or some private venture, things might get interesting.
What if they enact rules that offend people on earth?
Would they be respected as a nation?
Would earth based governments put pressure on their mother corporations to affect mars policies?

If this thing runs by the current rules, I'd imagine something horribly PC.
No guns, no sex, no alcohol, no blackjack, no private enterprise or economy to speak of, leaders appointed by earth, rulings from offworld judges and juries, etc...
It would be interesting to see what they actually do with independence, if it ever comes to that.

And if mars folks "misbehave", who exactly from earth is going to come after them?  It seems to me that what happens on mars stays on mars.  On one way voyages such as this, quite literally.




A planet sized embargo isn't difficult to enforce.
You might be right in that it boils down to how would we know the full extent of what's going on there.

We might have dozens of rules regarding astronaut behavior, but they'll do whatever they want off camera.
 
2013-03-17 09:43:55 PM

studebaker hoch: [static02.mediaite.com image 550x408]

People don't realize how cold Mars is, because it's also so dry.



Candidates should first see if they can bear living in a dry county before moving to a dry planet.
 
2013-03-17 09:53:40 PM

over_and_done: Stone Meadow: sporkme: Stone Meadow: Jon iz teh kewl: xanadian: Mars is no place to raise your kids.

neither is Jupiter
maybe we should 3D print a planet

Why settle for a planet?

I am reading the Ringworld series so I am getting a kick. Good books, liked Niven since I read Lucifer's Hammer.

I had never heard of Niven until I returned from Peace Corps service in 1980, when I purchased a paperback copy of Ringworld (which I still have and have read many times). Since then I've purchased and read nearly everything he's written. Not a convention-going fanboy, mind you, tho I do support by favorite artists by buying copies of their words.

/when you need a break from RW read Destiny's Road and cringe at the errors missed by the editor for a complete change of Niven pace...

There, fixed that for you.  Also if you haven't already, pick up copies of The Integral Trees and The Smoke Ring, which are set in the same story universe (but no overlap in characters or even planets with Destiny's Road).  I believe it's the same story universe as the Beowulf's Children pair of novels but am not certain.

Be very certain to not read the inside-cover blurb of Integral Trees.  Niven sets you up to believe a particular false thing without ever coming out and saying it, but if you're paying attention you can figure out the truth yourself.  The truth is revealed in Smoke Ring as part of the plot -- but the blurb from some idiot publisher monkey printed inside Integral Trees flat out tells you the wrong things.

/over_and_done for the State
//over_and_done for the State
///over_and_done for the State


Protector and the rest of the Known Space canon are best - stuff from before the 80's.  And the most recent Ringworld novel (Ringworld's Children) is great - mostly because he got a ton of fan input.  Ringworld Throne is meh (80's) but you need to read it for continuity.

World Out of Time is great too (Corbell for the State...)
 
2013-03-17 10:15:26 PM
 
2013-03-17 10:29:14 PM
Meh, I'd go.  We all die somewhere.
 
2013-03-17 10:35:46 PM

WeenerGord: Gawdzila: StoPPeRmobile: Yeah, how much nitrogen is on Mar?

There's not much of ANYTHING in the Martian atmosphere.  If you're talking about making a breathable atmosphere, though, nitrogen isn't strictly necessary.  It just acts as a non-reactive "filler" gas that keeps the oxygen concentration from being toxic.


Maybe people don't need nitrogen, but plants do


Grrr, I didn't know I needed to spell it out. 3D PRINTERS!!!!!
 
2013-03-17 10:48:19 PM
It kind of surprised me how many Farkers want to spend the rest of their lives without any human contact or sex.

But then I realized its not that much different than living in your mom's basement.

I guess you guys have always been in training for deep space voyages.  Who would have thunk it?
 
2013-03-17 11:09:53 PM
www.anbg.gov.au

Ya know what else was a one-way trip?
 
2013-03-17 11:11:47 PM

Gawdzila: WippitGuud: God did.

Well to be fair, we're the ones who invented CO2-spewing engines and industrial processes.


By the grace of god we "invented" those things!
 
2013-03-17 11:13:31 PM

miniflea: slimfast:

Is that the one where they all get scurvy but for some reason don't figure it out until it is almost too late?


Yes.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:09 PM

SirEattonHogg: I guess you guys have always been in training for deep space voyages.  Who would have thunk it?


i651.photobucket.com

BONUS: Emergency rations are included!
 
2013-03-17 11:42:38 PM

SuddenlySamhain: I saw a ww2 movie once where allied soldiers had to blow up a wire barricade on a beach while under heavy fire.One soldier would drag a tube shaped explosive toward the obstacle until they got shot then another soldier would run up and continue carrying the device toward the obstacle until THEY got killed.On this went untill the goal was accomplished.

 Prepare the steps,materials,technology et al for constructing a sustainable habitation module on Mars THEN seek out volunteers willing to go on suicide missions ,one after another to accomplish the goal. In two hundred years when Mars has a few dozen dome cities and a pop. around 500 million there will be a national park built around the original module with an oblisk carved of native stone with the names of the sacrificial astronaut/settlers.
I could accept such a fate.


Perhaps a D-Day documentary on the Military Channel and a device known as a Bangalore Torpedo?

Anyhow, I want to be able to take a lot of stuff with me and have internet access (I know there will be a huge delay, I don't play FPS games or the likes but I want to read the news, visit /., and chill at Fark). I also want a six month re-supply of opiates and weed, 5 to 10kg should be enough for me personally. I want to be able to order anything, regardless of legality here on Earth, to be included in my allotted weight.

I'm aging, I'd be 68 in 2022, so I'm pretty sure I'd not be included on the mission anyhow. I think that's too bad because the younger folk are likely to back out where as I can follow instructions well enough to help scientists and the likes, I'm fairly well educated, and I simply don't care enough about life to be likely to change my mind after the investment in training. Oh well.

On the other hand, I'm quite willing to bet (assuming we use some reputable escrow company) that this project doesn't get off the ground. I'm even willing to put up a sizable amount of cash in this bet. It simply seems unlikely to succeed and that is unfortunate because the human race has an absolute expiration date unless we get off this rock. (Well, I suppose it still has one due to entropy but we can postpone it significantly by investing the resources to escape the planet. I'm afraid that, by the time the majority is aware of this, the resources will have been consumed on less important things.)
 
2013-03-17 11:43:01 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Never make it there. And even if you did miraculously manage to somehow, your brain would be so destroyed by radiation you'd just sit there staring at the sun and drooling until you starved to death.


He-HEY~ Stop being a buzzkill. Let people have their dreams. There's a lot of time to perfect the technology to lessen the effect of cosmic rays.
 
2013-03-17 11:51:01 PM

SirEattonHogg: It kind of surprised me how many Farkers want to spend the rest of their lives without any human contact or sex.

But then I realized its not that much different than living in your mom's basement.

I guess you guys have always been in training for deep space voyages.  Who would have thunk it?


Speaking of mothers, yours has been an excellent trainer for those deep space missions.
 
2013-03-18 12:08:40 AM

jakepowers: Im going to sign up, go, then murder everyone else as soon as I get there. I'll write a tale of how I am the one true god and savior of mars and leave my picture and some silly laws. yeah, thats the ticket.


that would honestly be worth the trip. and I'd wager quite a bit that it could actually work.

SlothB77: They leave in 2022.  It takes x years to get to mars, then let's say they guarantee they will keep these people alive for ten years on Mars.  What are the odds we figure out a way to get them back by then?


I've seen enough "alien microorganism infection" space movies to know that will never happen regardless of the technological or financial feasibility.
 
2013-03-18 12:49:51 AM

Mister Peejay: Tell me, what opinion do you have on the nutrition factor of vending machine sandwiches?


Vended food contains all the necessary nutrients for survival. Well, just one, really: sugar. If you're starving from say, radiation sickness, sugar alone can keep you going for awhile.

ParagonComplex: He-HEY~ Stop being a buzzkill. Let people have their dreams. There's a lot of time to perfect the technology to lessen the effect of cosmic rays.


I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, that's just the reality of it. We'd need either a new method of propulsion capable of getting a craft with a couple feet of lead shielding on its exterior into orbit, or a new metal which weighs less that can protects us. Or maybe a way to generate a field of some type to act as a shield. It's certainly not remotely possible with current public technology, is all i'm really saying. The people you should be mad at are those pretending it's possible.

I'll throw out a little optimism, although it's still pretty dark. Ben Rich, who worked at the Lockheed Skunkworks most of his life, and was even head of it for awhile, had this to say:

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an Act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity...Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do."

/your tax dollars at work
 
2013-03-18 12:52:10 AM

ParagonComplex: J. Frank Parnell: Never make it there. And even if you did miraculously manage to somehow, your brain would be so destroyed by radiation you'd just sit there staring at the sun and drooling until you starved to death.

He-HEY~ Stop being a buzzkill. Let people have their dreams. There's a lot of time to perfect the technology to lessen the effect of cosmic rays.


Wait until they find out they will be drinking other peoples pee.
 
2013-03-18 02:13:26 AM
Living on Mars, I'd be able to dodge my student loans that have been in forbearance since 1996.  And here I thought I'd have to DIE my way out of them.
 
2013-03-18 02:17:58 AM

FARK rebel soldier: The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight: Just don't drink the water.

What red Martian people might look like
[www.cksfilmes.com image 820x634] /Suck, Virginia


I finally got around to watching John Carter on Starz this weekend. It wasn't quite as bad as its reputation led me to believe.  I don't think Taylor Kitsch was quite right as the lead, and they really should have at least tweaked the colors a bit to make the sky and terrain look the right colors for Mars so it just didn't feel like the action was happening in Utah, but the story was not awful for a summer action flick (it was way better than Battleship), and I rather liked Lynn Collins as Dejah.
 
2013-03-18 02:40:11 AM

SlothB77: that's a lot of time to change your mind.


I was told it was only two weeks.
 
2013-03-18 02:42:14 AM

m00: seriously though, I'd go.


Mars is fine.  All of these worlds are ours, except Europa.  We should attempt no landing there.
 
2013-03-18 02:45:00 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Quantum Apostrophe: mat catastrophe: I speak for all sane humans when I say that we should send all the libertarians.

Give them a whole planet, I say. Let them have their fantasy land there.

I say the same about the Space Nutters. I just want to make sure there's a reliable video link so I can watch them scream and cry and beg to come back to this "mud ball". I say we don't let them.

Let's send the "faithful" and continue with the rest of your plan.


No, no, we should send the telephone sanitizers first.  After all, when the other arks arrive, we wouldn't want them to have to deal with dirty telephones.
 
2013-03-18 03:29:55 AM

NephilimNexus: [www.anbg.gov.au image 540x270]

Ya know what else was a one-way trip?


Never ordered a coffee in Shepherd's Bush, I see.
 
2013-03-18 05:26:06 AM
i651.photobucket.com
You can just see his toilet trembling in the background.
 
2013-03-18 05:32:11 AM

J. Frank Parnell: Never make it there. And even if you did miraculously manage to somehow, your brain would be so destroyed by radiation you'd just sit there staring at the sun and drooling until you starved to death.


So....you're saying it's better than most IT jobs I've had. Sign me up!
 
2013-03-18 05:48:09 AM

studebaker hoch: [static02.mediaite.com image 550x408]

People don't realize how cold Mars is, because it's also so dry.

If Mars could somehow keep an Earth-like atmosphere and water, it would very closely Earth at the poles.

We can never terraform Mars into being habitable for humans unless we also find a way to heat it.

/cold as hell, etc.


It ain't no place to raise the kids.
 
2013-03-18 02:17:38 PM

weirdneighbour: [i651.photobucket.com image 510x381]
You can just see his toilet trembling in the background.


You can see his lotion but can he see where his lotion is supposed to go?Can he even REACH it?

BTW if there is ANY SINGLE image that can inspire a person to diet its this one
 
2013-03-18 02:50:57 PM

SuddenlySamhain: weirdneighbour: [i651.photobucket.com image 510x381]
You can just see his toilet trembling in the background.

You can see his lotion but can he see where his lotion is supposed to go?Can he even REACH it?

BTW if there is ANY SINGLE image that can inspire a person to diet its this one



Dunno, man, he looks happy enough. Fat people are jolly.
 
2013-03-18 05:05:22 PM

J. Frank Parnell: I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, that's just the reality of it. We'd need either a new method of propulsion capable of getting a craft with a couple feet of lead shielding on its exterior into orbit, or a new metal which weighs less that can protects us. Or maybe a way to generate a field of some type to act as a shield. It's certainly not remotely possible with current public technology, is all i'm really saying. The people you should be mad at are those pretending it's possible.

I'll throw out a little optimism, although it's still pretty dark. Ben Rich, who worked at the Lockheed Skunkworks most of his life, and was even head of it for awhile, had this to say:

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an Act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity...Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do."

/your tax dollars at work


I was being facetious, yo. You're exactly right with everything you said. I do believe that by go-time there will be something to protect the people from cosmic rays, radiation, etc. I'm hoping the eccentric buddy who conjured this up thinks so as well. Otherwise he's sending people to their certain painful death instead of a possible uncertain death. There's no telling what all we can already do, but people's love of money keep it away from the gen-pop.
 
2013-03-18 09:53:35 PM

Gawdzila: StoPPeRmobile: Humanity needs a more realistic "dream." Let's fix some shiat here. You know, starving kids and all. Ridiculous fantasy about some kind of interplanetary Jamestown is fricking retarded.

I hate this kind of complaint and I think it is wholly misguided and illogical.  It assumes that, just because there are some people who are dreaming of ways to get to Mars, that they're necessarily decreasing the attention we give to other concerns.  There are PLENTY of people who are trying to fix the starving kids problem, and their inability to fix it has nothing to do with NASA.  The people who are interested in rocket science aren't suddenly going to turn their attention to fixing economic woes just because you de-fund the space program, all it does is waste their talents.


My favorite thing about Elon Musk, he's not asking you to fund his Mars colony.  He's saving you a bundle of money by building a better space launch infrastructure that you need for other stuff and doing the rest with his profits.
 
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