If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Justice delivered: two members of the high school football team that is the pride of Steubenville were found guilty of raping a drunken 16-year-old girl   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 275
    More: News, Ohio, found guilty, football team  
•       •       •

12536 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2013 at 11:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-03-17 12:15:10 PM
14 votes:

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.


I don't say this lightly, but you in no way should be a parent or be allowed to have any say in the ethical upbringing of children. Jesus christ, you're the reason women are afraid to come forward about being raped and are afraid to say no.

In no way is she responsible for what they forcibly did to her. She didn't consent, she didn't ask for it, she just got drunk. People get drunk all the time. By your reasoning, any woman out drinking should expect and accept that they might get raped, and it's their fault if it happens for making bad choices.

Even if the girl was a "train wreck," that doesn't justify anything. Many girls are seen as "sluts" and "train wrecks," but that doesn't mean they have a welcome mat over their vagina when they are passed out. I'm honestly disgusted that you find any fault with her at all.
2013-03-17 12:20:21 PM
10 votes:

adamgreeney: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

There are a lot of them in here today. Apparently, getting raped while unconscious isn't brutal and she needs to get over it. And it's just nature/evolution that made them all have sex so we can't blame them for giving in to their natural urges.

/excuse me while i vomit in disgust.


There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.

However - given eye witness testimony, the subsequent memory loss, and being unconscious - it's certainly plausible that she was drugged. Medical experts said that her behavior, loss of control, and unresponsiveness was consistent with many popular date rape drugs and the memory loss was very telling - but there's no chemical evidence collected to suggest that it happened.

It also appears that this girl isn't the only one with memory loss. There were some anonymous accounts in which a few other girls awoke to find themselves partially disrobed - with no memory. The victim and her family started to receive death threats and were bullied online. No one else came forward to say they were victims despite there being pictures of other girls passed out partially disrobed. Either the other girls wanted to lie about potentially being raped and then thought better of it or they were actually potentially raped and decided not to come forward.

This is all very . . . tragic.
2013-03-17 11:43:50 AM
10 votes:

ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.


Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.
2013-03-17 11:33:03 AM
10 votes:

ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.


They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.  And it's not 'date' rape asshat. It's rape. They even CALLED it such on the video they made. And the adults who were involved in the cover up following the rape will be very fortunate if they don't face federal prosecution.
2013-03-17 11:26:16 AM
10 votes:
No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."
2013-03-17 11:44:12 AM
8 votes:

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Given the whole recording thing, the guys were clearly much less impaired, so this case doesn't work that way.  When you're doing a bit of amateur video work on the side, you have a hard time credibly arguing you couldn't provide consent.
2013-03-17 04:58:30 PM
7 votes:
THE DETAILS OF THIS CASE, FOR THE RAPE APOLOGIST ASSHOLES AND OTHERS TO DISCUSS:

KnightSec details pieced together:

"After being convinced, with some amount of coaxing -- to attend the parties that night with the "Rape Crew" by [X]'s girlfriend [X], Jane Doe was picked up at a volley ball team party she was attending in the early evening of August 11th and transported in a vehicle with Richmond, Mays and [X] in it. Jane Doe was administered a "date rape" drug snuck into her drink almost immediately, possibly while still in the vehicle en route to the nights "festivities". In any case, she has no memories after being picked up. The first party of the night was at the home of Assistant Coach [X], where [X], [X], [X], and [X] were already engaged in heavy drinking and drug use. At this location Jane Doe was raped multiple times by Richmond and Mays and at least two other assailants from the "Rape Crew". At that point the "party" went on the move. They first stopped at another Assistant Coach's home, [X]. [X] didn't like what he saw, and asked them to leave. Once again, they hit the road with an unconscious Jane Doe in tow. While en route to [X]'s house, Jane was again raped and sodomized in the back seat of a vehicle - and this was video recorded by [X] who was in the front seat. Her attackers in the car were again Mays and Richmond. Once they arrived at [X]s house Jane Doe was carried to the basement where she was again raped multiple times by multiple attackers, one of which was [X]. Finally, having sated themselves and exhausted any further entertainment that Jane Doe could provide, she was unceremoniously dumped (still unconscious) onto the front lawn of the [X] residence - where at least one member of the "Rape Crew" proceeded to urinate on her."


Other details:

James "Jim" Parks: Webmaster and owner of a private fan site for the team who they point to as a close contact of the players. Localleaks also posts photos of seemingly young girls from his email, girls they claim are "conquests" of the team.
Sheriff Fred Abdalla: The post claims that Sheriff Abdalla and Head Football Coach Reno A. Saccoccia have regular breakfasts together and are conspiring to remove electronic evidence from students at the party.
Prosecuting Attorney Jane Hanlin: Hanlin is the prosecuting attorney for Jefferson County, but she is also the mother of Charlie Keenan, a suspected member of Steubenville High's "Rape Crew".
Head Football Coach Reno A. Saccoccia: Localleaks points to Saccoccia as the ringleader of the conspiracy, attempting to "hold off sheriff deputies when they seized the telephones and other electronic items belonging to the perpetrators, meanwhile encouraging his "boys" to delete everything." The post goes further, claiming the coach rewards players by allowing them to view porn on his computer and providing drugs and alcohol to those who are "extra" deserving.


The entire town is heavily invested in the football team, and everyone from the coaches to the police to the prosecutor did everything they could to cover up this case.

s3-ec.buzzfed.com
This is the victim-- UNCONSCIOUS-- Being dragged by her rapists to another location. This is from a video these assholes made where they call her "the dead girl" and say "she is so raped".


And these are comments made by the rapists themselves online:
s3-ec.buzzfed.com
s3-ec.buzzfed.com
i3.photobucket.com


Yes. They actually tweeted about pissing on her, raping her, and made it very clear that they were aware what they were doing was rape, but just didn't care.

The above tweets have since been deleted. The collects social media updates from Twitter, including a screenshot of a student who tweeted: "You don't sleep through a wang in the butthole" and "There is a dead body [referring to the victim] and people don't care #livethelife."

There's video of admissions of rape:  http://vimeo.com/56640382


THIS IS A MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE. Not only should the two teens who drugged, raped and kidnapped this girl be tried as adults and receive much harsher sentences, but the adults who covered it up should also face felony charges.

Anyone saying she "deserved it" is a grade-A sociopath.
2013-03-17 12:04:31 PM
7 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.


If by "girlfriend" you mean your "right hand", then I would imgaine you are. Look, you're a farking half-wit internet troll. You get off on being an asshole and pissing off random strangers on the internet. I can't believe someone whose life is so empty that they derive their life's enjoyment through being coonts to random strangers is going to have much, if anything, positive going on in their life. You don't have a girlfriend. You don't have a car. You don't have a home outside of the 8x5 dungeon that your parents have resentfully allowed you to stake out in exchange for not having the most glaring example of their failure breathing heavily through his mouth at the breakfast table. Of course, you'll try to come up with something clever or contrived but will fail and make a deriviative insult that you've read by someone more clever than yourself. That is what's expected. You're a dumb animal and I understand what happens when you provoke a stupid animal, but I'm just glad that we can get this out there. I'm glad that even as you use those giant sausages to pound out another moronic ode to public education and inbred genetics intellect, you realize that there are a lot of people out there that see you for who you are and will not take a moment beyond a quiet chuckle when this cruel isolative existence leads up to the inevitable conclusior of you chewing down a barrel full of buckshot.
2013-03-17 11:48:36 AM
7 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?

It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.


She wasn't just drunk.  She was unconscious for a lot of it.  Hence them calling her "dead."  Sex with an unconscious person is rape, since they can't consent (not even drunkenly).
2013-03-17 11:30:52 AM
7 votes:
Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.
2013-03-17 11:28:29 AM
7 votes:

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.
2013-03-17 11:27:50 AM
7 votes:
THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

media.comicvine.com
2013-03-17 12:43:07 PM
6 votes:
I started college young, so when I was her age I was starting my freshman year.  And drinking hard for the first time.  I didn't really know what my limits were.  So that first week, I went to a party, drank a lot of beer, and started flirting with a guy (an athlete).  I even told him where I lived.  And then on the way back to my dorm later, by myself, I decided it would be a good idea to take a nap on the steps of a building.  Along came that same guy -- pretty drunk himself -- woke me up, got me back on my feet, and walked me all the way to my room where he could hand me off safely to my roommate.

Just remember -- people always have options.  Any one of us can always help someone who needs help.

 It's not "understandable" they did this, it's not "her bad judgment," that's at fault -- it's their shiatty upbringings.  And apparently those of everyone at that party.
2013-03-17 12:23:24 PM
6 votes:

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.


she got drunk and passed out. True this was irresponsible. But I hardly think being ganged raped is a natural consequence of passing out. She was irresponsible for getting that drunk, but she hardly deserved for this to happen to her.

I really feel sorry for any daughters being raised by a rapist apologist.
2013-03-17 11:45:07 AM
6 votes:

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Let's put that argument in context. You get shiatfaced in a bar, walk out the back door into tha alley by mistake, where a large hoodlum, who is also shiatfaced, smashes your head in and relieves you of your watch, wallet, and anal virginity. Would you hold him to be your victim, as well?
2013-03-17 01:44:58 PM
5 votes:
I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

See Trixie, this is why people think you are a horrible person (for the record I think you are a horrible person too).

You have a crying, traumatized girl (your daughter!) who's worried that she got a disease or is pregnant, is terrified that there pictures of her shame are all over Twitter or Facebook (something I did not have to worry about back in the dinosaur age, thank goodness), and your reaction is to tell your daughter, "Too bad, so sad, you should have made better choices."
2013-03-17 01:41:45 PM
5 votes:

Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.

Because that totally agrees with what I said.


What you SAID is that once a girl become intoxicated, she is just as responsible for being raped as the person who rapes her.

You say your children understand this as well. Your sons believe now that they are 100% responsible for raping a sober girl, but only 50% responsible if she had something to drink.

You are telling them that their own responsibility for rape can be mitigated by the victim's decision to drink.
2013-03-17 01:23:48 PM
5 votes:
Trixie12: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

How can you raise your sons to respect women when you obviously don't. You do think that it's okay to rape someone in certain circumstances, i.e., if they're drunk.

Lil' hint: rape victims (female and male) have plenty of guilt and shame and second guessing that they put on themselves. They really don't need you to add to it.

Ask me how I know.
2013-03-17 12:47:08 PM
5 votes:
I think women and victims in general carry a lot of responsibility not to put themselves in harm's way, but it is responsibility to themselves...not legal responsibility. No female rape victim ever forced a man's penis into her and no mugging victim ever forced a perp's knife to his or her throat. If I leave my car unlocked, do you really want the law to side with the car thief because that's how it sounds? there's criminal responsibility and moral responsibility. Victim shaming is abhorrent. These people have to live with their traumas for the rest of their lives and I'm sure they are fully aware of how their decisions placed them in harm's way.

But if you rape forgiving dumb shiats want to be all about personal responsibility, accept that rapists (and car thieves and muggers) made their decisions and now they have to accept the consequences. In this case, the girl was unconscious, there were witnesses, and there was photographic evidence...so the facts and the source of criminal responsibility should not really be in question.

For those of you upset that women can dress slutty and then turn you down, well, I'm sure a nice cat lady will come along some day.
2013-03-17 11:29:44 AM
5 votes:
Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.
2013-03-17 06:57:51 PM
4 votes:
Rape really highlights the human garbage on Fark. It's like spring cleaning for my ignore list. Time to toss a bunch of the human offal on the pile.
2013-03-17 03:23:30 PM
4 votes:
Holy shiat.

This thread.  Holy farking shiat.

Anyone trying to stop the victim blaming, keep it up and many beers to you, because holy shiat, there are some grade a farking unhealthy whackadoodles all up in this thread.

/getting the fark out of here
2013-03-17 01:25:14 PM
4 votes:

skwerl: First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

Besides, the 'list' is a farce. Sex is a natural animal instinct practiced by every single living organism on earth. There are a few twisted individuals who overstep the bounds of accepted human decency but far too many are wrongly tattooed with the Scarlet Letter on their foreheads for life. 16 year old kids have hormones raging. All three of them got drunk and fell victim to natural human instinct.


So you're saying that teenage boys were just actling like teenage boys? I was a teenage boy and I never once dragged an underaged, unconscious girl out to my car, took her to a friend's house, and in front of a bunch of drunken kids proceeded to undress her and stick my fingers inside her while my buddies took photos and videotaped the incident, then published it on the internet. But hey, that was 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. What fun shenanigans boys get into today!

Sure, you can blame the victim and say that if she didn't want that, she shouldn't have gone to such a party and become inebriated. On the other hand, I'm guessing that you've gotten drunk before, but never once did you expect to wake up to find photos of yourself with some strange dude's fingers up your ass all over the internet. And should such a thing happen to you, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say to yourself, "Well, I guess I learned a valuable lesson about getting drunk. That guy was just doing what any normal guy would do by sticking his fingers up my ass." No, I'm fairly certain you'd be pretty farking upset about it.

So no, this was not just a couple of horny teenagers drinking too much. It was two farking entitled pieces of shiat, who have spent a good part of their lives with people telling them how awesome they are and often being excused from consequences that most other kids would have endured along the way, who figured this would improve their street cred among their buddies.

Then there's the question of whether they even realized what they had done was wrong, which is even more troubling. If not, this is a way of telling them in no uncertain terms that we, as a society, do not condone this type of behavior. And if they did know it was wrong, then WTF? Seriously, WTF? That's ever so much worse.

So no, I don't think this was just nature taking its course and boys being boys. If it was, then every 16-year-old kid would be raping unconscious girls.

But they don't. The ones that do get convicted and go to jail.
2013-03-17 01:14:36 PM
4 votes:

Trixie212: One more time, moron. I said she SHARED responsibility. SHARED. They get the blame for taking advantage of her but she SHARES responsibility.


Saying she "shares" responsibility with the people who sexually assaulted her implies that her drinking to the point of a blackout is in of itself a crime or moral failing almost on par with the act of sexual assault on its own.

Her decision to consume as much as alcohol as she did was a bad choice, but she doesn't "share" anything with them. I might make a bad choice to leave a bar by myself through a back alley because it's a shortcut to my car instead of through the front door, and run into a mugger. I don't see why I would have to "share" responsibility with someone who committed robbery against me, when his act was an actual crime and mine was simply a "bad decision".
2013-03-17 01:02:15 PM
4 votes:

Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

One last time, it's possible to believe the victim shares in some personal responsibility without being a "rape apologist". The whole situation is just sad.

/they both agree with me on this subje ...


Agreement doesn't make you right.

Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.
2013-03-17 12:57:31 PM
4 votes:

Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?


It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.
2013-03-17 12:42:58 PM
4 votes:

tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.


People like you are why I think people should choose judges over juries. Seriously "enjoy getting raped?"... you think raping 16 year olds is ok, but only the ones who did bad things? Torture, violence, and rape are why we get such a high recidivism rate... morons like you get giddy with the thought of prison being a hellscape that grooms better criminals, then wonder why the prisoners are so vindictive towards society at large when they get out... more often than hot though, asshats like you don't wonder that, you just hyper-simplify complex problems with statements like "if you didn't wanna get raped and stabbed, you shouldn't have broken the law" without ever thinking just how much of a Saudi Arabian tool that makes you sound like.

The reality is you sick farks support Sharia law and you don't even know it.
2013-03-17 12:29:52 PM
4 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.

No, I am pointing out the fact that you should not walk in a room of dangerous individuals without protecting yourself.  But again, please go on about how in your limited white knight mind the concept of nullification of responsibility exists for women who decide to drink to excess in a dangerous location.


No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?
2013-03-17 12:10:53 PM
4 votes:

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone


There are a lot of them in here today. Apparently, getting raped while unconscious isn't brutal and she needs to get over it. And it's just nature/evolution that made them all have sex so we can't blame them for giving in to their natural urges.

/excuse me while i vomit in disgust.
2013-03-17 12:01:43 PM
4 votes:

skwerl: accelerus: Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?

This makes me wonder how those guys on "to catch a predator" can get multiple years worth of hard prison time, along with a lifetime sex offender status for simply showing up to a house containing NO UNDERAGE GIRLS.

I fully realize in both example - the guys are scum, but getting a slap on the wrist for doing the crime, and then getting your life taken away for thinking about doing the crime... wow.

How long till we see these guys in the news again for raping someone after they are out of juvenile? I'd love to see some hard data on the probability of a sexual offender doing a repeat offense X number of years after caught.

Why not just make a rule that says "if you are convicted of rape, you will have your junk cut off, and be put in a hard labor camp for 20 years -- or we hang out, your choice"  Sure it sounds harsh... but anyone who would actually rape someone isn't someone that should be allowed to take up space in what otherwise might be a good society.


First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

Besides, the 'list' is a farce. Sex is a natural animal instinct practiced by every single living organism on earth. There are a few twisted individuals who overstep the bounds of accepted human decency but far too many are wrongly tattooed with the Scarlet Letter on their foreheads for life. 16 year old kids have hormones raging. All three of them got drunk and fell victim to natural human instinct.


She was unconscious, and the boys bragged about raping her, using the word "rape" numerous times. Please tell me how she did anything to initiate or consent to the sex.
2013-03-17 12:01:31 PM
4 votes:
What about the dick on the video? Shouldn't he be tried? If for nothing less than his lame jokes. He just sat there and played to the video and did shiat. If ever there was was punchable, that prick is it.
2013-03-17 11:40:00 AM
4 votes:

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


I'm sure they consider themselves an upright Christian god-fearing community.
2013-03-17 11:39:34 AM
4 votes:

Lady Indica: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.  And it's not 'date' rape asshat. It's rape. They even CALLED it such on the video they made. And the adults who were involved in the cover up following the rape will be very fortunate if they don't face federal prosecution.


That's the real key. This conviction paves the way for pretty much the entire school administration to do decades in prison.
2013-03-17 11:30:45 AM
4 votes:

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


How dare people be properly tried under the law as juveniles!
2013-03-17 09:26:29 PM
3 votes:
The media response has been "interesting" in the Chinese curse sense.

CNN's Candy Crowley: "These poor boys' lives are ruined." Entirely possible, but considering that they raped a girl, and were tried for it, and convicted in a court of law, yeah, it's a tragedy that should have you in tears. Just not for the boys, but the girl.

Our judge: "The problem is social media"--because the medium is the problem, not the idiots who Tweet and Facebook their crimes?

Michael Crooke: At least his commentary is consistent with his usual asshattery. And at least expected. All women deserve their rape, apparently in his eyes. Even the Swiss who are visiting a country, should at least understand men, especially brown men, just rape women sometimes. Apparently, if a woman isn't a burhka, and only meeting young men in approved forums like with the company of some male relatives, then a girl is asking for it. HIS level of asshattery is at least on record, countless times.

Twitter is chock full of asshats and idiots, so this isn't a surprise exactly. How DARE someone come forward with their rape, when there's a football team involved? This is the breakdown of the hate on for this girl. It's HER fault for getting raped, and dooming these poor, innocent lads who were so good and virtuous that they couldn't keep it in their pants, and couldn't keep from talking about it before and after the deed. Then again, Twitter is full of folks who might get culled if Hubie were granted Godlike powers to slap down stupid. I am not a good person though, so IF there is a Supreme Cosmic Power, Godhead, or Akashic Well willing to channel some divine power, maybe I'm not the best candidate...

Lee Stranahan of Brietbart is at least consistent with the vileness, and continue to perpetuate the idea that the town somehow suffered because the perpetrators got their day in court, as opposed to 16 year old who was raped, and folks wanted to cover it up?

This entire incident just makes me seethe, not just as a father, but as a man, who is tired of asshats who GET their convictions, that they woefully deserve, and because they were "popular" folks want to give them a pass. We need to get off this idiocy that "popular" means infallible. It leads to bad places, and as a country, we should be better than this. Mind you, I understand that some of the folks in this thread are just trolling for the attention, and in all honesty, those folks are worse than the idiots who think that these boys were just "boys being boys" because to trivialize rape as a passing fancy to entertain yourselves is to disconnect with anything remotely human. It's not about rape apology, it is simply that you lack the humanity to see what was done, and figure it's worth a few chuckles, and all in all, this thread is full of folks who are just reprehensible humans. And I'm not good people, so that's saying something...
2013-03-17 08:46:01 PM
3 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: Rape is wrong, there is no question about that.  And judging from the evidence, this case was determined to be rape and the defendants should be punished accordingly.  But I think there is an underlying issue at hand here that people have the "right" to poison themselves or make other poor decisions without consequence.  Should you get raped from a self induced black out at a house party?  No.  But you know what, you just might be at the party where there is a monster or two waiting for the opportunity.  That is the reality of the world.


Every account of this case has the girl passing out BEFORE she even gets to the party. Her account. Her friends' accounts. Even the rapists' accounts ALL say she was unconscious before she was at a house party. She was unconscious in the car ride TO the first locale, and she was being raped before they even arrived there.

And then they proceeded to take pictures of her nude body, rape her some more, tweet about how "raped" she was, tweet about how "dead" she was (not "drunk"-- No tweet from the guys who did this or the witnesses who watched and/or participated EVER said "drunk"), and tweet and shoot video talking about raping her, and that she was now "dry" and "worthless" and "deserved to be peed on"... Which they also did to her.

I don't know how or why people keep falling back on the "she drank too much" position. There's plenty of evidence that she was drugged before the party began, even if the prosecutor and the sheriff decided to ignore all that after the sheriff's department "accidentally" deleted video, photo, and other evidence.

Follow the links above. Despite what the court and the town of Steubenville wants you to believe, this is not about the consequences of acting irresponsibly by getting fall-down drunk. This is about an ex-boyfriend and the rest of the football team dosing a girl and exacting revenge by raping, humiliating, and abusing her, and the adults involved covering it up to protect their football program and-- some say-- their own illegal activities.
2013-03-17 07:21:23 PM
3 votes:
Again, don't just take my word for it. Here's the word of the rapists themselves:

http://jezebel.com/5972553/anonymous-leaks-horrifying-video-of-steub en ville-high-schoolers-joking-about-raping-a-teenager-deader-than-trayvo n-martin

From TFA at Jezebel: Other choice quotes include: "It isn't really rape because you don't know if she wanted to or not" and "what if she was pregnant and gave birth to a dead baby?"

And how about this:   "She is so raped right now," said Nodianos to the camera. "There won't be any foreplay for a dead girl. It ain't wet now, to be honest. Trust me, I'm a doctor."

Here's a RawStory link, too:   http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/03/hackers-produce-disturbing-vide o -evidence-in-ohio-gang-rape-case/

And this article gives more details on the Anonymous involvement in this case, including the information they dug up that the MSM didn't bother to mention:  http://www.sott.net/article/255751-Date-rape-in-Ohio-Tale-of-rampant- c orruption-cronyism-and-cover-up


Here's a key piece of information:

Cody Saltsman sent many messages to people stating that "nobody breaks up with Cody Saltsman, Ill ruin that biatch". This was a month before the rape. A few weeks later, Saltsman's best friend - Trent Mays started texting the victim asking her for a date and pretending to like her and telling her over and over that everyone likes her and not to worry about Cody. He finally convinced her to let him meet her at her friends house and she remembers nothing past that point. A close personal friend of the victim received pics from her at 9:30 pm, and she was smiling and happy and with her group of girlfriends. An hour later she was unconscious and being viciously gang raped.

While the charges regarding the attack were dropped against Saltsman, he has provided ample evidence that he was present during this vicious gang rape - incriminating himself with multiple photos that he took of the victim during the various parties she was transported to. Examine these two photo's, one posted by Saltsman to his Instagram account and the other posted to Twitter by another member of the "Rape Crew" closely. These images are of another unknown victim of the "Rape Crew" published by Saltsman in 2011.



Defend that, rape apologists. Go ahead.
2013-03-17 06:17:35 PM
3 votes:

give me doughnuts: Trixie212: The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

No, she doesn't. It's kind of disgusting that you, or anyone else, thinks that way.


This, and to respond to what Trexie said, she is going to be a damaged human being for awhile. She is seriously probably really messed up in the head right now for one doing a stupid thing that a lot of kids do, get drunk at a house party. Second, because people that she knew raped, violated, hurt her, and then humiliate her on the damn internet. Plus people who are suppose to help you through all this probably tried to cover up what happened.
2013-03-17 05:23:23 PM
3 votes:
There's something about rapist psychology of which people should be aware: rapists think EVERYONE is a rapist like they are. They think YOU'RE a rapist. Either you've not been caught, or you're too chickenshiat beta to actually take what is yours to take.

So whenever you make any kind of excuse, or try to mitigate the rapeists' actions, their ears perk up and they say, "Ah! A fellow rapist! Good to see a few of us alphas still around!"

That's the way rapists think.
2013-03-17 03:30:30 PM
3 votes:
Sounds to me like someone here raped a drunk girl and doesn't like it being pointed out to them.
2013-03-17 03:06:48 PM
3 votes:

Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.


If a group of females gang raped a teen boy, I'd expect there to be consequences as well.

There is never any excuse to rape, EVER. I don't care how someone is dressed or what they've consumed, don't farking rape. Is that so goddamn hard to understand?
2013-03-17 02:15:50 PM
3 votes:

Quigs: Lady Indica: aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.

Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the form of civil judgments against those involved. I wonder how much of it will be covered by various home owner insurance policies.

You can see in this very thread, despite the abundance of evidence in this case to rape, how many rape apologists there are. How many who say the victim is somehow responsible. Those are the type of people too stupid to get out of jury duty adjudicating these cases.

You're the only person I've got favorited. You're a generally awesome person, so I feel the need to step up here.

When someone gets behind the wheel of a car with alcohol in their system, and then gets involved in a traffic accident, no matter who was actually at fault, the drunk driver is recorded as being at fault. These are matters of life and death, and the person who chose to drink and do something dangerous is always at fault.

The guys who raped this girl are assholes, and I'd send them to the Wall, but I don't get how people can say that the girl is absolved of all responsibility, when the precedence is the drunk person is always responsible for what happens to themselves and others.


Oof. I've not plonked Trixie, even though I think she's pretty horrible with the shiat she's saying, because I think she's at least being honest with her opinion/perspective and I understand the seed of it. Same here (though you are not being horrible) with yours. This thread actually has me worked up, but this deserves a response.

This is going to be very long. Feel free to pass on by others not interested.

It's a very normal, common, human reaction for us to look at dangerous and bad situations that have happened to others, and examine WHY it happened and HOW we can make sure it doesn't happen to us. This is wiring. Unfortunately because we also tend to retroactively think and explain such wiring, we come to shiatty conclusions. We look at a woman raped in an alley. She was dressed modest as a nun, walking down the street in broad daylight. No one (rational and sane) is gonna argue for the rapist. But, we will actively look for reasons it happened. Because if it's just lightning bolt out of the blue...it could happen to YOU, or your daughter/mother/sister/whatever. So we latch on to things that we believe we can control. Oh, she was in a bad neighborhood. One shouldn't walk in bad neighborhoods alone. This can easily start becoming, 'She shouldn't have walked in a bad neighborhood alone. One should know better' which places accountability on the victim. That's the bad cognitive leap, do you see what I'm saying?

Additionally this overactive radar doesn't work well. We *know* this (scientifically). But it's bad wiring that serves a ghastly purpose.

You're walking down the street. You see a group of young men coming towards you. They look like mormon missionaries. You're probably not too worried. (I wouldn't be either). Same thing, but they look like a group of street hoodlums. You're worried. Probably scared. You're probably thinking of escapes. Looking around for other people.

If your assumption about those young men is WRONG (and it usually will be in life), then taking certain actions (such as crossing the street, entering a shop, dialing 9-1 on your phone with the finger lightly on that last '1'...) have no adverse consequence. In fact, you may wrongly attribute these actions as having helped you in a situation where you were in no actual danger.

Ignoring these false warnings though, can have dire consequences. We're even taught as children to PAY ATTENTION to these warnings. 'Trust your gut instinct' is something everyone heard as a kid, in one form or another.

And then we overly trust these things to keep us safe. And in order to maintain that belief (not consciously, no one is twisting a mustache going mwhahaha, this is all unconsciously done) we examine victims in order to figure out things they didn't do that we WOULD or COULD do. This is the evolution of victim blame.

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE is arguing that it's a good idea to get publicly intoxicated. It's just not. But it is fun. And it is something most people do at one point in their lives. We have to take accountability for our own actions, and when we're teenagers and young adults we're experimenting with a lot of new situations. And we make a lot of bad decisions.

Yet, it's interesting isn't it that when we see a story about a drunk driver killing a bunch of people...that we don't blame the people they victimize in the same manner. We don't say 'well they should have known better than to be on the road at that hour, lol'. We don't hear a mother claiming that if her daughter were crippled in a wreck, that she'd be lecturing her on her personal responsibility.

That's where moralistic arrogance creeps in. Dressing 'slutty'. Drinking! Cavorting with males at parties! Going to a man's hotel room alone, what WAS she thinking?! So not only are we obsessively radaring WHY this won't happen to us, but ways in which they were at fault.

I'm a good person, and my children are good people whom I've taught these values to, therefore this can't and won't happen to US.

Again, an issue I'm not dispassionate about. This is an issue that's emotionally charged for most people.

The bottom line ultimately is this; why does it matter WHY she became unconscious. If she had a medical condition which was not previously known, that caused her to collapse on a couch...and then all this shiat happened doesn't make her any more, or any less a victim. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference.
2013-03-17 01:40:07 PM
3 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.


Why do you think blaming rape victims is helpful to women or rape victims?

The only risk factor for being raped is being in the presence of a rapist. Most of the time - the victim isn't aware they're in the presence of a rapist until after the rape.

Wearing frumpy clothes doesn't prevent rape. Traveling in groups doesn't prevent rape. Drinking doesn't prevent rape.

Suggesting that if only this girl remained sober, she wouldn't have been raped is absurd and speculative.

Teaching people that you can avoid rape if you follow these things is incredibly cruel to the victims that have followed all of the rules and still ended up being raped.
2013-03-17 01:36:57 PM
3 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.


Other way around, actually. Telling women that they're partially responsible if they're drinking, wearing short skirts, in the wrong part of town, out at the wrong time of night, etc. is really telling rapists that these are the conditions for targets for whom we will not prosecute. That's what helps rapists.
2013-03-17 01:31:08 PM
3 votes:
casey17:Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.

Doesn't help, for an obvious reason: the vast majority of men are not rapists. The ones who are are sociopaths like InitialCommentGuy, and telling them not to rape will not be successful, by definition. All we can do is publicly identify them and warn people so that they don't have an opportunity to rape, and simultaneously let them know that we're watching them and they won't find any sympathy or escape from prosecution with their "but she was drunk" or "but she was wearing a short skirt" or "but she's had sex before so she's a slut".
2013-03-17 01:26:39 PM
3 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.

Brilliant!  Now show me a way to tell in a party with dozens/hundreds of people how you determine the 'worthwhile' factor of any and all members of the party before you begin to drink.


As a general rule of thumb - a worthwhile person doesn't rape others.

You're an idiot if you think that you can protect yourself against rape. There are things you can do - carry a whistle, carry coasters to test your drink for drugs, travel in groups, etc. to make you safer. But not doing these things does not make you responsible for your own rape nor does doing them it fully protect you from rape. Do you know why? Because NOTHING a victim does makes her/him responsible for rape.
2013-03-17 01:25:05 PM
3 votes:

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I said she SHARED respo ...


I have a question for you. If the girl had not been drinking at all and had just been out ("with her friends" as she thought she was) and this happened, would she still have "shared" responsibility for what happened to her?

Once again for the slow crowd, SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS WITH FRIENDS!  I'm willing to bet most of you have gone out & gotten blotto with your buddies - did it EVER cross your mind that they'd end up raping you & putting the video on display? She KNEW & TRUSTED these people - they weren't random people she'd just met at a local bar.

Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.
2013-03-17 01:17:35 PM
3 votes:
I don't have a lot to add except thank you to the guys here who have piped to say that men can make decisions not to have sex or make a judgement call that there is a certain point where a person is too drunk to have consensual sex.
2013-03-17 12:59:44 PM
3 votes:
These threads are great for updating farky. it is nice to know who the rape apologists are.
2013-03-17 12:49:28 PM
3 votes:
I see that this is one of those threads where I have to set up an Automator script for "click 'ignore' button, enter 'blames the rape victim' as comment, click submit".

Jesus Christ, some of you people.
2013-03-17 12:40:12 PM
3 votes:

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Yes.

We live in a very messed up culture. I present the fact a good portion of comments in this thread don't think these guys did anything wrong as evidence of how messed up our society is in raising young men.
2013-03-17 12:27:20 PM
3 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?

Keep digging. The more you talk, the more people see you for what you are.

How could I survive losing face to the kind of people

who follow you?

I don't follow Theaetetus at all. I think he/she is a monumental dick. I also believe he/she is right on the money when charactirizing you as a sociopathic rapist apologist.
2013-03-17 12:25:54 PM
3 votes:
Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand


Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.
2013-03-17 12:25:29 PM
3 votes:

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


Having sex with a drunk woman is not necessarily rape. Being intoxicated doesn't make you incapable of giving consent unless you're actually passed out or incoherent, as seems to be the case here.

Why is it that if a man and woman, both equally drunk, agree to have sex, you believe only the man is guilty of rape? I've never understood how people can claim to be feminists/egalitarians and yet not see how obviously degrading this double standard is for women. To say that intoxicated women are unable to give consent but intoxicated men are just perpetuates the stereotype that women are weak, need protection, and lack autonomy.

I used to work in law enforcement and I can tell you that we frequently had to explain to women that being pestered into having sex or having sex when you're drunk and regretting it the next day is NOT rape. The only time someone is too inebriated to give consent is when they're literally too inebriated to give consent, as in unable to express consent verbally or otherwise. A woman can be blackout drunk, stumbling and falling over, and still consent to sex as long as she's coherent enough to express that consent. I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand.

I remember once where we actually apprehended a group of marines for supposedly "raping" some dependent spouse while her service-member was deployed. One of them had a cell phone video depicting her engaged in obviously consensual sex with this group of marines. I won't go into too much detail, but suffice to say it's hard to scream "Give it to me devil dogs!" with a mouthful of cock. Showing her the video, explaining to her that she was a lying whore, and charging her for the false report were deeply satisfying.
2013-03-17 12:20:46 PM
3 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.
2013-03-17 12:18:31 PM
3 votes:

Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?


Nope, men just biologically can't help themselves. Their dicks are magnetically attracted to drunk, unconscious girls. They can't be blamed! It's HER fault! Sheesh.

I love how every example the actor is the drunk making choices that affect them, except for the rape one which is simply slut shaming. Awesome.
2013-03-17 12:15:46 PM
3 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.


Good point. Why aren't we talking about the REAL victims in this story, some hypothetical male victims?

Any attention given to this real, actual, female victim does a grave injustice to those hypothetical boys. I am glad you are here to set our priorities straight.
2013-03-17 12:14:44 PM
3 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?
2013-03-17 12:12:33 PM
3 votes:

Trixie212: My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys.


Go read some details about the case.  Seriously.
2013-03-17 12:11:36 PM
3 votes:
Finally, the messages showed Mr. Mays pleading with the girl not to press charges because it would damage his football career

Holy shiat, this guy isn't even 18 and he's already a huge sociopath. Lock him up and throw away the key, he'll only get worse as he gets older.
2013-03-17 12:07:09 PM
3 votes:
Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.
2013-03-17 11:58:57 AM
3 votes:

Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".


I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.
2013-03-17 11:51:06 AM
3 votes:

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.
2013-03-17 11:43:49 AM
3 votes:

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?


It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.
2013-03-17 11:43:03 AM
3 votes:

Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.


Tell me of your homeworld.
2013-03-17 11:38:16 AM
3 votes:
Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?

This makes me wonder how those guys on "to catch a predator" can get multiple years worth of hard prison time, along with a lifetime sex offender status for simply showing up to a house containing NO UNDERAGE GIRLS.

I fully realize in both example - the guys are scum, but getting a slap on the wrist for doing the crime, and then getting your life taken away for thinking about doing the crime... wow.

How long till we see these guys in the news again for raping someone after they are out of juvenile? I'd love to see some hard data on the probability of a sexual offender doing a repeat offense X number of years after caught.

Why not just make a rule that says "if you are convicted of rape, you will have your junk cut off, and be put in a hard labor camp for 20 years -- or we hang out, your choice"  Sure it sounds harsh... but anyone who would actually rape someone isn't someone that should be allowed to take up space in what otherwise might be a good society.
2013-03-17 11:37:03 AM
3 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


Trolling a thread pertaining to the brutal rape of a child? Stay classy, POS.
2013-03-17 11:34:33 AM
3 votes:
I wouldn't have even heard of it, had Anonymous not gotten involved.
2013-03-17 11:33:48 AM
3 votes:
Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.
2013-03-18 03:11:28 AM
2 votes:

ELKAY: But I hardly think being ganged raped is a natural consequence of passing out


Around young men it is.  I'm sorry, but it's true.  You get a bunch of drunk young, stupid, entitled, tribalistic men together and stupid shiat will happen.  Vulnerable young girl getting pass-out drunk at a party with footballers?  Getting raped in that situation is no surprise.  I'd be more surprised if she hadn't been sexually assaulted in some way.  That doesn't make it her fault, it was simply an easily foreseeable consequence of her actions.

It would be super awesome to live in a world where you can pass out -- naked even -- and be safe and secure in person.  We do not live in that fantasy utopia and we never will.

People in general need to learn to approach alcohol with caution.  We've decided alcohol is a fun drug with no real consequences to use, and it's a great idea to completely lose control of your faculties in the presence of people who you can't trust to be looking out for your interests.  Fark celebrates the abuse of alcohol as if it's a virtue.

99% of the time you will get away with the bad judgement of getting really drunk with no harm, no foul.

The 1% of the time you don't get away with it is going to be a real biatch, whether it's getting sexually assaulted, a serious head injury, or killing someone in a fight, a car accident, choking to death on your own vomit, cheating on your partner... it will be bad.  And it could have been prevented if you chose not to drink yourself into a state where you were not in control of your actions, and not able to make rational decisions for yourself.  This applies to men and women of any age in any situation.

So because of abuse of alcohol in a culture that encourages it, this girl got raped when she probably otherwise would not have been, and these guys who maybe (maybe...) would not have done this sober have committed an awful crime and ruined their own lives as well.  Yay booze!  It's harmless fun!
2013-03-17 07:40:11 PM
2 votes:

Madbassist1: OgreMagi: Their defense was "she didn't say no".  Didn't anyone explain to these assholes that when a girl is that drunk, that she can't give consent?  Even if she had drunkenly said, "yes", she still can not give consent.  Also, she was 16, so probably can't give consent even if sober (not sure of that state's laws on that).

This simple thing should be part of sex education.  IF SHE IS DRUNK SHE CAN NOT GIVE CONSENT.  How farking hard is this to understand?

I bet that town is going to make that poor girl's life miserable now.  Assholes.

Exactly! Men have to take responsibility! Women don't!! You tell em!


At the risk of responding to a troll or a moron (but I repeat myself), getting drunk does not constitute an invite for molestation.  Nor does wearing a revealing outfit.  In past discussions of this sort, I've made it clear that women who have second thoughts the next day and cry "rape" belong in jail, but a girl so drunk she's basically passed out is not "fair game", and when your posse is called "the rape squad" or some variation, you are asking to be tossed in jail.
2013-03-17 07:32:59 PM
2 votes:

Madbassist1: Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior


How the hell do you read that and have any doubt that she did not consent? Or is being passed out "like a dead body" implied consent?

/wtf is wrong with people
2013-03-17 07:21:31 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.


This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?
2013-03-17 07:03:46 PM
2 votes:

ZeroCorpse: People don't just lose consciousness after one drink.

People don't become completely limp, like a dead person, after one drink.

People don't forget everything after one drink.

It's pretty clear she was drugged.

Some reports say they found trace amounts of some "date rape drug" in her blood, but it was too long after the night in question (she had no memory of what happened, and then the police didn't want to pursue this matter) and the levels were not enough to stand up in court. There were also significant forces in that town covering things up.

What they did have was the evidence that she was unconscious before she even got to the first destination, and that she was sexually assaulted multiple times AFTER she was unconscious.

EVEN IF SHE WASN'T DRUGGED-- and there are witness accounts that she was-- it was undoubtedly wrong to rape her multiple times, drag her from place to place to be raped by several people, and then piss on her as she lay unconscious. It was undoubtedly wrong to tweet about her being "a dead girl" and "so raped" and "deserving to be peed on". It was undoubtedly wrong to dump her in her yard and leave her there after the deeds were done.

BUT... EVEN IF SHE WERE DRUNK, none of the actions of these guys was defensible.


I don't understand the point of this argument. What does it matter if she was drugged or pass-out drunk? There's a picture of her being held up by her wrists and ankles, clearly unconscious, around the time she was being carried around, penetrated, and jizzed on by the two scumbags. Yeah, drinking until she passed out sure put her in a vulnerable position, but that does nothing to excuse the rapists.
2013-03-17 06:50:55 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: I do try to hear other points of view and in all truth, I don't feel she deserved to be raped and I'm pretty sure I've stated that, just maybe not vehemently enough.

I know others are saying she was drugged which would do more to make me reverse some of my feelings than anything else because she absolutely would have had no control over that. But, it's been my understanding that that has not been proven or has it? I'm open to listen.


The point I think people (and me!) have been trying to impress upon you is that it does not matter. It does not make her any more or less of a victim. She is not more or less raped by whether she was drugged unconscious or unconscious due to intoxication.
2013-03-17 06:37:35 PM
2 votes:
Trixie212:I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

I feel sorry for your sons and daughters.  You are a terrible parent.  They deserve better.
2013-03-17 06:37:09 PM
2 votes:
She did NOT just "get drunk at a party" -- She was drugged before the party even began.

She lost consciousness before she even got to the first destination.

She was completely unable to resist. She wasn't just drunk. She was drugged.
2013-03-17 06:25:05 PM
2 votes:

skwerl: I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.


I'm bothered that you think it's ok for 16-year-old boys to rape people.

And if you think that thinking rape should be a crime is being on a "high and mighty horse" then you need counseling. Or electroshock treatment, or a lobotomy, or something.  Seriously, there's something deeply, deeply wrong with you.

And if you're just trolling, then there's STILL something deeply wrong with you.
2013-03-17 06:01:39 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.


No, she doesn't. It's kind of disgusting that you, or anyone else, thinks that way.
2013-03-17 05:06:51 PM
2 votes:

ZeroCorpse: THE DETAILS OF THIS CASE, FOR THE RAPE APOLOGIST ASSHOLES AND OTHERS TO DISCUSS:


It shouldn't take this level of detail.
2013-03-17 05:04:37 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: But think what you want.


I don't need your farking permission, and yes.  "Both sides are badding" rape is rape apology.   That makes you a bad person.
2013-03-17 03:16:05 PM
2 votes:
NOT in the Ohio rape statute--or in any rape statute that I know of:

"Evidence that the complainant was unconscious shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of rape."

"Evidence that the complainant voluntarily accompanied the accused to a place where a rape was alleged to have been committed shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of rape."

"Evidence that the complainant's faculties were weakened because s/he had voluntarily ingested alcohol shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of rape."
2013-03-17 03:10:08 PM
2 votes:
Madame Ovary:Her friends suck too. To have no one with a brain intervene. It is astonishing.

Mob mentality is a terrible thing. Group think can be too. It's hard for adults to go against a group, and almost impossible for some children. Much easier to blame the single person and stick with the group, than become an outlier...look what happened to them, after all.
2013-03-17 01:49:08 PM
2 votes:

natmar_76: Our country is farked up.


You should read the thread.
2013-03-17 01:47:22 PM
2 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: casey17: Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not.

Not this again.

Say no to drugs. If stopping people from committing crimes were as simple as telling people not to do it we wouldn't have any crime.


First off, doing drugs isn't the same as rape. But yes, I know what you're saying......I just don't understand *why* all these men/boys think it's perfectly all right to help themselves to another persons' body. WHY aren't their parents teaching them it's WRONG? WHERE are they getting the idea that it's acceptable behavior?
2013-03-17 01:36:48 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".


There's no such thing as a gentle rape.
2013-03-17 01:34:15 PM
2 votes:
According to the usage and conventions which are at last being questions but have by no means been overcome, the social presence of a woman is different in kind from that of a man. A man's presence is dependent upon the promise of power which he embodies. If the promise is large and credible is presence is striking. If it is small or incredible, he is found to have little presence. The promised power may be moral, physical, temperamental, economic, social, sexual - but its object is always exterior to a man. A man's presence suggests what he is capable of doing to you or for you. His presence may be fabricated, in the sense that he pretends to be capable of hat he is not. But the presence is always towards a power which he exercises on others.

By contrast, a woman's presence expresses her own attitude to herself, and defines what can and cannot be done to her. Her presence is manifested in her gestures, voice, opinions, expressions, clothes, chosen surroundings, taste - indeed there is nothing she can do which does not contribute to her presence. Presence for a woman is so intrinsic to her person that men tend to think of it as an almost physical emanation, a kind of heat or smell or aura.

One might simplify this by saying: men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves. The surveyor of women in herself is male: the surveyed female. Thus she turns herself into an object - and most particularly an object of vision: a sight.
  - John Berger

IMO they obviously raped her, and even though she did make a stupid choice of getting drunk. I know they are all teenagers, but they are obviously going to make stupid choices, but with the girl, she just made a choice that would only embarrassed herself if nothing else happened. These young boys decided to prey upon the girl who is obviously to drunk to notice anything. Just because she made a stupid mistake that as far as I know wasn't hurting anyone but herself; doesn't mean she deserved to get raped. She didn't deserve it, and her actions did not allow her to get it. We need to stop treating women to be careful how they act or look, because those might cause bad things to happen to her. Instead we need to start teaching men on not to hurt someone like a woman regardless of how they present themselves.
2013-03-17 01:18:04 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: casey17: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

Those would be the words of Trixie212.

Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?


Did you raise your sons to believe that a drunk woman has "just as much responsibility" for her rape as the rapist, or just your daughters?
2013-03-17 01:16:59 PM
2 votes:

Theaetetus: ^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone


I have somewhere under a dozen farkies.

I'll probably double that number thanks to this thread.

/seriously, are you f--king kidding me
//getting the f--k out of here for now because if I see victim written with quotes around it one more f--king time, I'm going to punch out the computer screen
2013-03-17 01:10:49 PM
2 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Popcorn Johnny: farkplug: The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent?

If bragging about getting sex from a drunk chick was a crime, most of the men in America would be locked up.

Don't assume most guys are like you.


Bingo, I walked away from a lot of drunk girls in my time.  It isn't hard to do, you don't do it, because you don't want to, and you are stupid.
2013-03-17 01:10:44 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


Regardless of how drunk she was... christ, screw trying to reason with you.  I honestly don't believe that you are female.
2013-03-17 01:10:29 PM
2 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Carth:

Things it is reasonable to expect will happen to you if you get black out drunk at 16: You get arrested for underage consumption, you have a really bad hangover, you end up in the ER with alcohol poisoning.

Things you shouldn't expect to happen if you get black out drunk: You get raped or sexual assaulted.

And yet there are always these stories of blacking out and being raped.  It is as if you refuse to accept the possibilities and protect yourself, and thus expect others to protect you from yourself.


There are all these stories about people being murdered in their house yet I don't feel the need to buy a gun. There are stories about people being framed by police yet I have no problem letting cops search my car if they ask. Why? because victims aren't responsible for other people's illegal actions and I'm not going to live my life in fear of what other people might do to me.
2013-03-17 01:10:25 PM
2 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Carth:

Things it is reasonable to expect will happen to you if you get black out drunk at 16: You get arrested for underage consumption, you have a really bad hangover, you end up in the ER with alcohol poisoning.

Things you shouldn't expect to happen if you get black out drunk: You get raped or sexual assaulted.

And yet there are always these stories of blacking out and being raped.  It is as if you refuse to accept the possibilities and protect yourself, and thus expect others to protect you from yourself.


It's almost as if rape victims has this insane expectation that they shouldn't be raped. Weird, right?

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.
2013-03-17 12:59:32 PM
2 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.


One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.
2013-03-17 12:58:26 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


At 16 years old, I didn't really know my limits of alcohol consumption, either. Kids do dumb things because they're not yet adults, and drinking yourself to the point of blacking out and waking up with a DEFCON 1 hangover the next morning is orders of magnitude less an example of a moral or practical failing of personal and social responsibility than sexual assault.

Basically, I have no idea why you even bring her "lack of responsibility" up in the first place. It's completely irrelevant. I can dig deep enough and find examples of poor or incorrect choices by a victim in any crime, but I don't do so because it's cold and unsympathetic.
2013-03-17 12:44:47 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


Yeah. Those darned rape victims are always to blame for not knowing that they're drinking with rapists.

It's almost as if these rape victims feel like they have a right to not be raped.
2013-03-17 12:43:24 PM
2 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?

You're way off base here.

What the fark is an affirmative actor?


Hi, welcome to English 101. Today, we'll talk about the difference between passive voice, in which an actor is implied, and active voice, in which an actor is explicitly present and acts. For example...
Passive voice: "I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you."
Active voice: "I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that a rapist will rape you."

Notice the difference? In one, there's a rapist who rapes, and in the other, something "happens" to the subject.

Now, why is this important? Because with passive voice, the sentence only includes the subject or victim... meaning that you imply that only the victim has any control over the rape "happening". With active voice, we recognize instead that there's another person, the rapist, who really is the one with control over whether rape occurs or not.

More importantly, it destroys the logic of the sentence - if there's a rapist who wants to rape you, it's irrelevant whether you're shiat-faced and passed out. Those only matter for whether some jackasses think you deserved it or not.

That was our class for today. I hope you took notes, because there will be a test tomorrow.

In no way did I denounce the guilty for giving in to their temptation.

No, you explicitly didn't mention the existence of the guilty party.
Plus, "giving in to their temptation" attempts to relieve them of blame. It wasn't their fault, they just have weak will! Nice.
2013-03-17 12:40:35 PM
2 votes:

adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.


Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.
2013-03-17 12:39:59 PM
2 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

So rape is ok if they are passed out? They are fair game for anyone who walks by? I think this says a lot about how you get laid.

She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape. Rape is never, at any point, acceptable behavior. Sorry, but it isnt.

In a perfect world?  Yes.

As we live in an imperfect world with people who rape?  No.

But please, attempt the classic ad hominems.  It is quite fun to feel your impotent rage seething through your posts.


You're right, it is not a perfect world. No one is saying it is. But that doesn't make those that are raped, murdered, robbed, etc at fault for the behavior of others. The kids should know, as most people do, that rape is not acceptable. I'm assuming you agree with that right? The girl couldn't know that these guys thought gang rape was their idea of a fun night out, so how did she share any responsibility? Should all women just assume men are going to rape them at any given moment? Because i think that's a little bit of projection on your part, since I can't think of a single male I know personally that would behave like this.
2013-03-17 12:36:14 PM
2 votes:

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.


How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.


They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.
2013-03-17 12:33:59 PM
2 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

Again... She became too intoxicated to be in control of herself.  I feel no sympathy for someone who is going to put themselves in harms way and then suffers a likely consequence of their actions.


So rape is ok if they are passed out? They are fair game for anyone who walks by? I think this says a lot about how you get laid.

She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape. Rape is never, at any point, acceptable behavior. Sorry, but it isnt.
2013-03-17 12:25:10 PM
2 votes:

Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.


Not to mention the moniker of "rape crew" that these guys were known by prior to the event.
2013-03-17 12:23:29 PM
2 votes:
There is no justice until there is a bullet in each of their heads.
2013-03-17 12:22:39 PM
2 votes:

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


She was passed out. Passed out people can't rape.
2013-03-17 12:21:47 PM
2 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?


No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.
2013-03-17 12:16:30 PM
2 votes:

Quaker: There's a clearly defined limit of intoxication beyond which we don't hold people accountable for their actions?


Well, yes. That's why drunk girls can have sex, but unconscious blacked out girls can be raped. See, there's a limit to where "being drunk" isn't enough of an excuse. We just discussed this two posts ago.

Quaker: And people won't get the wrong idea about what I said if they bother to read the quote to which it was in response. If they don't then it's their error, so I'm ok with that.


Hey, boss, just trying to help.
2013-03-17 12:13:22 PM
2 votes:
skwerl:
First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

That much is clear. You could have just stopped here. But you didn't...

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

The girl was unconscious. They took videos of her, dragging her around
by her toneless arms and legs and even calling her a "dead body" throughout. Why in the hell should she get put on a sexual predators' list for life? What the fark is your problem? Oh yeah, you have no knowledge of this case. Your opinion which is "based on generalities" is pretty moronic and scary, nonetheless.
2013-03-17 12:11:00 PM
2 votes:

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Doubtful.


At that third party, the girl could not walk on her own and vomited several times before toppling onto her side, several witnesses testified. Mays then tried to coerce the girl into giving him oral sex, but the girl was unresponsive, according to the player who videotaped Mays and the girl.

Richmond was behind her, with his hands between her legs, penetrating her with his fingers, a witness said.


"I tried to tell Trent to stop it," another athlete, who was Mays's best friend, testified. "You know, I told him, 'Just wait - wait till she wakes up if you're going to do any of this stuff. Don't do anything you're going to regret.' "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-c as e-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html?pagewanted=all&_r= 0
2013-03-17 12:09:03 PM
2 votes:

skwerl: First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her.


It's not that simple.  Read up on the case, it's flat out disgusting what they did to her.
2013-03-17 12:09:00 PM
2 votes:

adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.


I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.
2013-03-17 12:07:28 PM
2 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.


^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone
2013-03-17 12:06:51 PM
2 votes:

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Nobody likes double standards, but arguing in any way that those boys didn't rape that girl is absurd. Amusingly, I expect they will be passed around a bit without consenting as well. I bet they will consider such activity to be rape after that.
2013-03-17 12:04:26 PM
2 votes:

SundaesChild: The My Little Pony Killer: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?

It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.

She wasn't just drunk.  She was unconscious for a lot of it.  Hence them calling her "dead."  Sex with an unconscious person is rape, since they can't consent (not even drunkenly).


Yeah. She was raped.

Then on January 1, KnightSec released an extremely disturbing video featuring members of the self-proclaimed "rape crew" from the night of the attack, making jokes about what had happened.

The star of the video, identified as former Steubenville High School baseball player Michael Nodianos, cracks himself up with lines like "She is so raped," and  "They raped her quicker than Mike Tyson!"
When someone else in the video interrupts and asks Nodianos, "What if that was your daughter?" he replies, "But it isn't."


http://www.policymic.com/articles/21878/big-red-football-anonymous-l ea ks-disturbing-video-in-steubenville-rape-case
2013-03-17 12:03:44 PM
2 votes:
Lot of Republicans in this thread, I see.

Too bad CPAC is over, these boys would have been a big hit on stage, they are apparently conservative heroes.
2013-03-17 12:02:09 PM
2 votes:

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


Then its good there was a spotlight. This kind of shiaat went down when I was in HS a 20 years ago and so highly doubt this situation is some kind of anomaly. I hope this case sends a message to entitled assholes and their apologist parents and coaches.
2013-03-17 12:01:28 PM
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


I sort of can't stand when people say "nobody here knows... what happened". Did you not pay attention to the trial? The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent? Lock the rapists up! And to think she thought of him as a trusted friend, but he continued to play her even afterward. What an asshole. Poor girl.
2013-03-17 12:01:27 PM
2 votes:

Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.


Ok nm. They're douchebags.
2013-03-17 11:59:45 AM
2 votes:

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Unlikely. Even if that were true then they should be placed in a home for the criminally insane and not left to wander around amongst normal peple doing things "their way"
2013-03-17 11:55:28 AM
2 votes:

jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too


I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".
2013-03-17 11:52:49 AM
2 votes:

Quaker: So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.


I'm sure you have a great argument...but it is pointless in a thread where the victim was shown to be completely unconscious.
2013-03-17 11:52:39 AM
2 votes:

ha-ha-guy: adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.

Again, the prosecutor did not file at such a level as to push them into "tried as an adult territory".  What the crime was is irrelevant at this stage, the judge can only sentence based on what the prosecutors got convictions on.  The prosecutors went after them as juveniles who committed the act at a party, not as adults who were sociopath scum.  They were sentenced as such.


While that is true, it doesn't make what they did or the outcome any better. If your wife was hit by a drunk by a drunk driver and he only got charged with involuntary manslaughter, does that make her less dead that if it was a murder charge?

The prosecutor, in my opinion, dropped the ball because they were afraid pushing for a harsher sentence would be tossed out due to the culture of the town and the ridiculous bias towards the kids and the football team. They deserve more, but they didn't get it. At least they got put away for a while.
2013-03-17 11:52:24 AM
2 votes:

Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.


Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too
2013-03-17 11:45:30 AM
2 votes:

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


You did notice that one of them is not white, right?
2013-03-17 11:45:16 AM
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


Well, shiat...we all know how unreliable eye witnesses are.  Unless there's DNA and videotape evidence, we can't be sure of guilt.  So let's let out all the prisoners with less than that as evidence out.  Your rapey jock buddies can go free along with most of the other guys!
2013-03-17 11:42:02 AM
2 votes:

sgtbarthel: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Trolling a thread pertaining to the brutal rape of a child? Stay classy, POS.


Brutal rape? She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal. This chick didn't deserve for these guys to touch her in any way but what she went through was hardly brutal.
2013-03-17 11:41:56 AM
2 votes:

accelerus: Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?


Only if you are a minor. And they will be doing at least a year, possibly 4 or 5.
2013-03-17 11:41:54 AM
2 votes:

Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.


Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.
2013-03-17 11:41:29 AM
2 votes:
Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...
2013-03-17 11:32:49 AM
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


The judge did.
2013-03-17 11:32:49 AM
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.
2013-03-17 11:28:26 AM
2 votes:

tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.


They're going to juvie, which while not good, is far from what they deserved.
2013-03-18 03:46:23 AM
1 votes:
2013-03-18 03:28:46 AM
1 votes:

ciberido: You're mocking him, of course, but the ironic thing is, you really SHOULD take such criticism from Theaetetus seriously.  It's a sad example of the  Dunning-Kruger effect: whatever it is that makes you pro-rape also makes you incapable of perceiving yourself as pro-rape or of really understanding his point.


While you are flinging the phrase "pro-rape" around at anyone who disagrees with you, could you perhaps point me to a single post by anyone in this thread in which they say that rape is a good thing?
2013-03-18 01:09:15 AM
1 votes:

ciberido: BarkingUnicorn:

It's not a question of knowing what rape is.  It's a question of knowing when it occurs.


It you talk about "kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy" as if such a thing were a possible explanation of what happened in this case, then you don't know what rape is.


Oh, I firmly believe that rape, and more, occurred in this case.  The perps are getting exactly what they deserve (juvie time is a negligible part of it).  I hope that others do, too, from the non-participant witnesses to the so-called leaders of Steubenville.  If the populace should be scattered and the town burnt to the ground, I would be fully satisfied.

And if there are reasonable steps the victim can take to reduce her risk of getting raped again, she should take them.  I'm sure she'll work through that in therapy, where no clueless layperson will tell her it isn't necessary.

We had another epic thread about domestic violence a few weeks ago.  People claimed that DV counselors eschew helping victims make better decisions in the future.  I found several DV counseling sites whose testimonials included some to the effect of, "They helped me make better decisions about my relationships."  Since all testimonials were selected and published by the counseling organizations, I assume the organizations consider improvements in decision-making to be important benefits of their programs and even sources of pride in their work.
2013-03-17 11:35:45 PM
1 votes:

Kimothy: Because she's not locking herself up in her room after her rape, it's because she was somehow responsible? Seriously?


Yes, seriously. Otherwise people have to confront the fact that this could happen to 'normal' people, and that is farking TERRIFYING.
2013-03-17 11:20:36 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: So, staying in control of yourself doesn't help to prevent rape. Not acting vulnerable doesn't. Not sending out sexually enticing signals doesn't. You've listed a whole bunch of things that don't help to prevent rape.

What are these "tricks" for women of which you now speak?

Uhm. We've been discussing these tips/suggestions for awhile now.
Ffs. If you're not going to try then why should I?

I've read this thread from top to bottom, and all I see are tricks for blaming men alone for rape.  You rattle off things that won't work very readily, but go "uhm" when asked for a few that work.

You didn't answer my question:  what would you think if you learned that this girl is still getting drunk with football  players every weekend?


Sadly, that's a very "normal" response. to rape. Some victims become sexually provocative or react by having increased sexual relations. Some victims never want to have sex again. Some fall in the middle and can have sex with someone they trust. It really varies. I was a rape counselor in college and I've seen post-rape sexual behavior  fall throughout that entire spectrum.

It's possible that she has so little self-esteem that she's willing to give herself to anyone who expresses interest. Until she gets professional help, this type of behavior could continue.

Of course, she might have fallen at the other end of the spectrum. But seriously, does it matter? Because she's not locking herself up in her room after her rape, it's because she was somehow responsible? Seriously?
2013-03-17 10:39:10 PM
1 votes:
Lady Indica: She's the vegetarian in the room clucking her tongue about the horrors of eating meat when someone gets cancer. Sure, maybe it's more likely for a meat eater to get certain types of cancer, but it's not apropos to the immediate issue, and it's downright shiatty. And when called out on it, saying 'Well I would say this even about someone I love' is even shiattier. And then someone raising the strawman that it's like a three pack a day smoker...same thing right?!

Trix, tell you what I do. I've had opinions I felt strongly about...and looked at who was agreeing with me and who wasn't. When people I have no respect for in any manner are the ones I share an opinion with...and people I respect are telling me my head is up my ass...I keep looking at the issue. I don't form my opinion based on who's with me and who's not...but the odds of me being the lone voice of wisdom in the wilderness is pretty low.



If it matters to anybody, I'm willing to believe that Trixie212's posts come more from ignorance and/or difficulty expressing what she really means than from the kind of deep-seated misogyny or sense of male entitlement than a lot of the posters in this thread have displayed.
2013-03-17 09:55:14 PM
1 votes:
I know this is Fark and all, but... Jesus. There are some seriously effed up people in this thread.
2013-03-17 09:50:41 PM
1 votes:

adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.


Terrifyingly enough, it isn't.

A sociopath is incapable of feeling remorse or empathy for anyone.

A normal person is capable of feeling remorse and empathy for in-group members, but not out-group members.

Most people are normal, which means that they feel remorse and empathy when something bad happens to someone they care about, but not when something happens to someone they've been trained to see as "prey".

Examples: how most people see terrorists, drug dealers, pedophiles, etc.; how some people see anyone poor and helpless.

All you have to do is convince yourself that someone is your rightful prey, and all your empathy goes out the window. Humanity's been that way for hundreds of thousands of years, the only thing unique about the past few decades is that post-WW2 sociological research has got better at getting us to recognize when we're excluding someone from our sphere of empathy, and check that shiat before we start the internment camps and rape hostels. Even then, this is still terrifyingly normal behavior.

The problem isn't with these two kids' souls, at least not originally; the problem is with a culture that tells them that they're totally okay and even respectable for doing this, until it suddenly does a 180 and tells them that they were horrible for doing it.
2013-03-17 09:41:30 PM
1 votes:

ZeroCorpse: captainmaxthedestroyer: Rape is wrong, there is no question about that.  And judging from the evidence, this case was determined to be rape and the defendants should be punished accordingly.  But I think there is an underlying issue at hand here that people have the "right" to poison themselves or make other poor decisions without consequence.  Should you get raped from a self induced black out at a house party?  No.  But you know what, you just might be at the party where there is a monster or two waiting for the opportunity.  That is the reality of the world.

Every account of this case has the girl passing out BEFORE she even gets to the party. Her account. Her friends' accounts. Even the rapists' accounts ALL say she was unconscious before she was at a house party. She was unconscious in the car ride TO the first locale, and she was being raped before they even arrived there.

And then they proceeded to take pictures of her nude body, rape her some more, tweet about how "raped" she was, tweet about how "dead" she was (not "drunk"-- No tweet from the guys who did this or the witnesses who watched and/or participated EVER said "drunk"), and tweet and shoot video talking about raping her, and that she was now "dry" and "worthless" and "deserved to be peed on"... Which they also did to her.

I don't know how or why people keep falling back on the "she drank too much" position. There's plenty of evidence that she was drugged before the party began, even if the prosecutor and the sheriff decided to ignore all that after the sheriff's department "accidentally" deleted video, photo, and other evidence.

Follow the links above. Despite what the court and the town of Steubenville wants you to believe, this is not about the consequences of acting irresponsibly by getting fall-down drunk. This is about an ex-boyfriend and the rest of the football team dosing a girl and exacting revenge by raping, humiliating, and abusing her, and the adults involved covering it up to protec ...


Not being a sports guy, I just don't get football-as-religion.

Reminds me of that whole Sandusky mess...people were defending THAT scumbag, too.
Some of them on this site.

Maybe they have too much self-identification with the sports heroes?  can't bear to think their idol has feet of clay?
2013-03-17 09:37:35 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again... But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?


She repeated the "behavior" of being unconscious?
2013-03-17 09:21:21 PM
1 votes:

ZeroCorpse: People don't just lose consciousness after one drink.

People don't become completely limp, like a dead person, after one drink.

People don't forget everything after one drink.

It's pretty clear she was drugged.

Some reports say they found trace amounts of some "date rape drug" in her blood, but it was too long after the night in question (she had no memory of what happened, and then the police didn't want to pursue this matter) and the levels were not enough to stand up in court. There were also significant forces in that town covering things up.

What they did have was the evidence that she was unconscious before she even got to the first destination, and that she was sexually assaulted multiple times AFTER she was unconscious.

EVEN IF SHE WASN'T DRUGGED-- and there are witness accounts that she was-- it was undoubtedly wrong to rape her multiple times, drag her from place to place to be raped by several people, and then piss on her as she lay unconscious. It was undoubtedly wrong to tweet about her being "a dead girl" and "so raped" and "deserving to be peed on". It was undoubtedly wrong to dump her in her yard and leave her there after the deeds were done.

BUT... EVEN IF SHE WERE DRUNK, none of the actions of these guys was defensible.




What? You've been posting some very wrong information here.

The girl testified that she remembered drinking at the first big party of the night and then holding Mays' hand as she left with him, Richmond and others.

The victim completely contradicts every post you've made in this thread.

She drank at least four shots of vodka, two beers and some of a slushy mixed with vodka, a 16-year-old witness said.

She was drunk. NOT drugged.

I agree with the rest of your post though. And the clowns trying to blame the victim can fark themselves.

I really hope that the adults that tried to sweep this under the rug get charged as well. Farkin pathetic.
2013-03-17 09:00:03 PM
1 votes:

Your Average Witty Fark User: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Pretty much this.


It's called "social media" and in this case, it allowed the perpetrators of the crime to post video, text, and photographic evidence of the crime they were committing, as well as confessions of said crimes.

Granted, much of it was "accidentally deleted", but if you check out the screen caps above, and watch the video linked above, you'll see that there was no question of these guys' guilt. The only questions are "Why did they get off so easy?" and "Why aren't the adults who tried to cover this up rotting in prison, too?"
2013-03-17 07:44:30 PM
1 votes:

EnglishMan: ciberido: Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.

This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?

I do love people like you who get all angry over someone suggesting that someone might be even slightly responsible for what happens to them and yet stuff like "Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags." (in the second post in this very thread) just goes on unchallenged. I guess you can't tell people on tumblr about how much of a "Feminist" you are if you say something about that though.



And I do love people like you who enjoy blaming victims.  So hugs and kiss all around!
2013-03-17 07:35:58 PM
1 votes:

ZeroCorpse: EVEN IF SHE WASN'T DRUGGED-- and there are witness accounts that she was-- it was undoubtedly wrong to rape her multiple times, drag her from place to place to be raped by several people, and then piss on her as she lay unconscious. It was undoubtedly wrong to tweet about her being "a dead girl" and "so raped" and "deserving to be peed on". It was undoubtedly wrong to dump her in her yard and leave her there after the deeds were done.

BUT... EVEN IF SHE WERE DRUNK, none of the actions of these guys was defensible.



One farking year. This nation needs to get its farking head out of its ass and rethink its priorities and personal values.
2013-03-17 07:19:53 PM
1 votes:
I love it.  A girl gets drunk and because she has a hoorah and tits she is now complicit in her own rape.

By that same emote, if Johnny the school jock gets wrecked some Friday nite jus becuz, he is now complicit in his own shiat kicking cuz he had muscles and deserved it as much as she did.

Man, where were this kid's friends that didn't have her back or her front.
2013-03-17 07:14:42 PM
1 votes:

Phil Moskowitz: Rape really highlights the human garbage on Fark. It's like spring cleaning for my ignore list. Time to toss a bunch of the human offal on the pile.


I can't believe this argument is still going on. Between contrarians who will argue any point no matter how absurd, morally "superior" busybodies who want to make themselves feel smarter than those suffering their darkest hours, and undersex men using rape victims to get back at all the women who dare not touch them, the rape threads bring out a pretty good cross-section of our lovely site.

Fortunately, society--real society--has determined rape to be so uncalled for and so savage that not one iota of blame or "responsibility" falls on the victim. What you're fighting now are the last remnants of our Puritanical past in its death throes combined with internet anonymity.
2013-03-17 07:10:25 PM
1 votes:

Bontesla: Initial reports were that a few other girls also awoke the next morning to find themselves partially disrobed with no memory.


Most of these events-- the other girls who came out later-- were from previous victims that weren't there for that particular event, but did have a similar encounter with these guys in the "rape crew"-- One drink, unconsciousness, and then waking much later partially disrobed.

What the media doesn't talk about, but KnightSec and Anonymous does, is that these "rape crew" guys bragged about drugging and raping girls, and though circumstantial at best, these accounts from their peers have been swept under the rug and only appeared online when the story first surfaced before being buried.

The people in that town and that school know what's going on, and the powers-that-be in that town (and school) have been doing their damnedest to quiet students and adults who can support the stories of the "rape crew" being essentially ALLOWED (by coaches and police) to drug and rape girls as part of their twisted "support" of the football culture in that town.

You can say I lack citations all you want. I know what I read when the story broke, and I know what I saw on video and in print from the members of the "rape crew" themselves. These guys are not just taking advantage of drunk girls. They have had a system in place for victimizing girls and getting away with it for a while now, and if you ask me, they deserve to have their balls cut off.
2013-03-17 07:00:35 PM
1 votes:
Trixie212: /don't care if you agree or understand

Then why are you bothering to post at all?
2013-03-17 06:57:35 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone


Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.



You're mocking him, of course, but the ironic thing is, you really SHOULD take such criticism from Theaetetus seriously.  It's a sad example of the  Dunning-Kruger effect: whatever it is that makes you pro-rape also makes you incapable of perceiving yourself as pro-rape or of really understanding his point.

It's a bit like watching a monkey fling poo at a painting.
2013-03-17 06:57:19 PM
1 votes:
People don't just lose consciousness after one drink.

People don't become completely limp, like a dead person, after one drink.

People don't forget everything after one drink.

It's pretty clear she was drugged.

Some reports say they found trace amounts of some "date rape drug" in her blood, but it was too long after the night in question (she had no memory of what happened, and then the police didn't want to pursue this matter) and the levels were not enough to stand up in court. There were also significant forces in that town covering things up.

What they did have was the evidence that she was unconscious before she even got to the first destination, and that she was sexually assaulted multiple times AFTER she was unconscious.

EVEN IF SHE WASN'T DRUGGED-- and there are witness accounts that she was-- it was undoubtedly wrong to rape her multiple times, drag her from place to place to be raped by several people, and then piss on her as she lay unconscious. It was undoubtedly wrong to tweet about her being "a dead girl" and "so raped" and "deserving to be peed on". It was undoubtedly wrong to dump her in her yard and leave her there after the deeds were done.

BUT... EVEN IF SHE WERE DRUNK, none of the actions of these guys was defensible.
2013-03-17 06:55:46 PM
1 votes:

Dragonflew: ZeroCorpse: She did NOT just "get drunk at a party" -- She was drugged before the party even began.

She lost consciousness before she even got to the first destination.

She was completely unable to resist. She wasn't just drunk. She was drugged.

Been on your side so far, but I'm afraid I'll need to see a citation for this. In order for the rational argument to prevail, it should continue to be backed by facts.


There's no chemical evidence of drugs - nor is there chemical evidence that she was drunk. By the time she realized that she was potentially raped - too many days had passed.

However - we can reasonably assume that she was under the influence because eye witnesses say so. Evidence that she was drugged is less established and conclusive. She shows symptoms (memory loss among others) that is consistent with being drugged. Initial reports were that a few other girls also awoke the next morning to find themselves partially disrobed with no memory. One such report came in the form of an anonymous online post in which the girl was saying she doesn't remember what happened. She doesn't like the taste of beer and so she didn't even finish the only beer she drank that night and that she only had beer. She didn't say that she was raped - she asked if others saw anyone else being victimized?

Needless the say the responses weren't helpful. She never came forward to the police and gave her statement so it's entirely possible that it was a troll. But it's also possible that the self-proclaimed "Rape Squad" actually raped others.
2013-03-17 06:52:23 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: demonfaerie: Silly Jesus: demonfaerie: Popcorn Johnny: vygramul: It shouldn't take this level of detail.

It shouldn't? I guess in your world, we should believe a woman whenever she claims she was raped, right? After all, there's never been a case of a woman making up fake rape allegations, right?

Just because there have been some cases of women claiming they were raped, but they really weren't doesn't negate that there are 100 times more women in the world that actually are raped. And yes we should somewhat believe when a woman says she was raped, but at the same time there has to be an investigation of it to prove she is right. However, with people like you it is harder for women to bring up these allegations, because of your tone of putting blame on the victim. Just, because someone does a stupid behavior doesn't mean they should get hurt or raped for it. It can take years for a woman to get over being abused or raped, so putting this partial blame on the victim just makes it worse. It doesn't help or solve anything.

Folks such as yourself see someone saying "it probably wasn't a good idea for her to get blackout drunk etc." and somehow turn that in to "I think it was excellent that she was raped."  I've never understood that.

If I went out for a jog through some drug infested slums in Harlem at night and got mugged it wouldn't really "be my fault", but then again, it kinda would.  See how that works?  Certain decisions that humans make have some somewhat predictable consequences.  The people who mugged me shouldn't be excused from their actions, but I was certainly a dumbass for putting myself into that position.

No it wouldn't be your fault. That is a public area you have every right to be in, and if someone assaults you it is not your fault. shiat can happen everywhere, it even it places that are not "dangerous". Ok in your logic you put yourself as a dumbass, and then yes the girl did a dumbass thing, but that doesn't mean she should have partial blame to ...


She will most likely need therapy, because of the aftermath of what happened. Her story is all over the internet, people are judging her, like you are right now. How does that make a teenage girl feel? Probably like shiat. Not to mention she might be in her head pieces shiat together, and that is making it worse. Also people are piecing the story together for her with the court case, and some people it sounds like are covering it up in the process. That is kind of farked up to go through no matter what age, but her being a teenager makes it worse, because of how young they are.
2013-03-17 06:47:29 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: So, staying in control of yourself doesn't help to prevent rape. Not acting vulnerable doesn't. Not sending out sexually enticing signals doesn't. You've listed a whole bunch of things that don't help to prevent rape.

What are these "tricks" for women of which you now speak?

Uhm. We've been discussing these tips/suggestions for awhile now.
Ffs. If you're not going to try then why should I?

I've read this thread from top to bottom, and all I see are tricks for blaming men alone for rape.  You rattle off things that won't work very readily, but go "uhm" when asked for a few that work.

You didn't answer my question:  what would you think if you learned that this girl is still getting drunk with football  players every weekend?


It really wouldn't change my attitude in the slightest.

Rape isn't the victim's fault. It's the rapist's fault.

What would you think if I told you that she consumed a single beer and was never technically drunk - but drugged? Obviously in this case you'd have to find another way in which the victim was responsible for her own rape. Perhaps she placed herself among friends she couldn't trust and ought to have known better. Perhaps she shouldn't have been partying or wearing something high school football players find particularly rape-worthy. You spend a lot of time inventing reasons why it's okay to blame her.

The fact is - women and men get raped because there are rapists. It doesn't matter what they're wearing or not wearing. It doesn't matter what they're drinking and not drinking. Rapists cause rape.

You keep saying that it's empowering for women to learn that had they not have imbibed alcohol - they have never have been raped. As an actual woman - I can guarantee that it's absurd. Women (and men) can follow all of your rules and still become victims of rape. Why? Because victims aren't to blame for rape. Rapists are.
2013-03-17 06:35:36 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: demonfaerie: give me doughnuts: Trixie212: The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

No, she doesn't. It's kind of disgusting that you, or anyone else, thinks that way.

This, and to respond to what Trexie said, she is going to be a damaged human being for awhile. She is seriously probably really messed up in the head right now for one doing a stupid thing that a lot of kids do, get drunk at a house party. Second, because people that she knew raped, violated, hurt her, and then humiliate her on the damn internet. Plus people who are suppose to help you through all this probably tried to cover up what happened.

Point taken.


I am glad you respect, and understand my point of view. I have no disrespect for your view point as well. However, I really dislike people trying to put some blame on the victim in these type of situations, because people have no idea what the victim is going through because of it. Just because she isn't going to jail doesn't mean she is not feeling any sort of consequence for the situation. Just because a teen did a stupid thing doesn't mean she deserve an action like being raped, or anyone doing anything stupid for that matter deserves to be raped. What they did to her, and the aftermath of that has probably scarred herself mentally so bad, she is going to need a lot of therapy to get back to a normal functioning person. Telling a victim that they are partially to blame or all of to blame based on a choice she did whether it was dressing the way she did, or act, or whatever doesn't mean she deserved it. People telling her she did probably will make her feel worse off, and more messed up. I know people who have been sexually assaulted, and I have as too. You feel you are to blame, and you hide in yourself hating yourself not doing something more. You already blaming yourself for what was done to you, and having other people telling you are correct for feeling that way makes it worse. You don't want to try to better yourself, and learn from your mistakes. You wish you could go escape in a hole, and die.

To enforce my meaning, here is a part of an essay on women being viewed in society by John Berger. I have posted some of this essay earlier in the thread as well.

Men survey omen before treating them. Consequently how a woman appears to a man can determine how she will be treated. To acquire some control over this process, women must contain it and interiorize it. That part of a woman's self which is the surveyor treats the part which is the surveyed so as to demonstrate to others how her whole self would like to be treated. And this exemplary treatment of herself by herself constitutes her presence. Every woman's presence regulates what is and is not 'permissible' within her presence. Every one of her actions - whatever its direct purpose or motivation - is also read as an indication of how she would like to be treated. If a woman throws a glass on the floor, this is an example of how she treats her own emotion of anger and so of how she would wish it to be treated by others. If a man does the same, his action is only read as an expression of his anger. If a woman makes a good joke this is an example of how she treats the joker in herself and accordingly of how she as a joker-woman would like to be treated by others. Only a man can make a good joke for its own sake.
2013-03-17 06:31:07 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: If I went out for a jog in the barrios of Rio and got mugged would it be cruel and incorrect to tell me that maybe I shouldn't have done that and to maybe not do it again?


Sure. But if you were coerced into following someone else, drugged without your knowledge, and woke up mugged in the barrios of Rio, that would be a different situation.

She didn't get stupid-drunk or act irresponsibly. She was coerced into going to a party by a group of her ex-boyfriend's friends, and then drugged in the car on the way to the first locale. While unconscious she was raped MULTIPLE times by MULTIPLE guys, dragged from party to party to be raped again and again, photographed and recorded being sexually assaulted, carried down to a basement where a bunch of guys took turns raping her some more while she was still unconscious, carried out to a yard and pissed on, and then left there.

The police, coaches, prosecutor, and sheriff intentionally dragged ass and tried to cover this up. The guys tweeted about raping her. They made videos talking about raping her. They wrote tweets referring to raping her. They actually called themselves "the rape crew" in a non-ironic way.

So perhaps there's a bit of difference between you wandering in a dangerous neighborhood and a teenage girl being drugged, gang raped multiple times, peed on, and humiliated by people she trusted.
2013-03-17 06:25:15 PM
1 votes:

Silly Jesus: Can a victim of any crime ever share in the blame? Or does that only apply to rape?


There's "You got what you deserved for jogging through those neighborhoods, serves you right!", and then there's "There's a lot of robberies in those neighborhoods, it is very dangerous, you might want to job somewhere safer."


Some people see any engagement in risky activity as being partially responsible for the result. Other people see giving simple cautionary crime prevention advice as blaming the victim.
2013-03-17 05:54:34 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: What could possibly be more demeaning and disabling to women than, "There's nothing you could have done?"

Why would that be demeaning or disabling to know that you're not to blame for your rape? That sounds freeing.

Yeah, free to put yourself at risk again.  What would you think if you learned that this girl is still getting drunk with football players every weekend?

The message being sent to women is not, "There's nothing more you could have done," which certainly frees one from blame.  It's "It doesn't matter what you do."  I can easily imagine the latter words coming out of a rapist's mouth as he unbuckles his belt.


Dressing in a more conservative nature won't prevent rape. Drinking doesn't prevent rape. Why? Because drinking doesn't cause rape. Wearing risque clothing doesn't cause rape. Rapists cause rape. Some rapists prey on the vulnerable: those drinking alone, those in dimly lit parking garages alone, those in isolated alleys alone, etc.

Should we teach women and men tricks that lower the risk? Absolutely.

But pretending that dressing like a virgin and ordering non-alcoholic Shirley Temples will save you from rape is delusional. And by telling rape victims that they should have showed less legs and ordered less alcohol in order to avoid being rape is incorrect wrong and very cruel.
2013-03-17 05:54:30 PM
1 votes:

chocolate covered poop: Taylor Mental: I can see the two defendants are darkies. Judging from the outrage I can only assume the girl is white.

It's not like they kidnapped her from the church rectory and savagely pounded her with their penises under the statue of Baby Jesus or something. She'd been doing her own bit of sexting and partying that night in the run up to the assault, or foreplay, depending on who you believe.

And at what point does the state recognize being under the influence as culpability or excuse? If you're drinking and driving, fark you, no excuse. If, on the other hand, your crazy and need meds to be competent for trial they forcibly medicate you long enough to give you a death sentence, or perhaps some truth serum to get you to say what they want.

She didn't even know anything was wrong until her friends started calling her a slut, which, for all we know she is. I mean, you don't go out drinking with the guys from the football team because your some kind of church missionary. Oh, but she doesn't remember doing all those slutty things? Well, that's different. Now she's the symbol of virgin purity. Lets lynch someone!

It was freaking statutory rape at worst - sloppy, drunken prepubescent groping at best.  Her vagina is materially unaffected and her mental state is, arguably, unchanged. Meanwhile, the two guys will be sex offenders for the rest of their lives. They'll have to register at the police department every year or after moving. They can't live just about anywhere without breaking a law or pissing off a whole group of people who will become vigilantes as soon as they find out. They sure won't ever be able to get a decent job.

If I didn't know better I'd think being born with a white vagina was some kind of entitlement.

0/10...too heavy on the Rush Limbaugh rhetoric


Near-total waste of words; hardly anyone reads past the word, "darkies."  Very inefficient trolling attempt.
2013-03-17 05:48:51 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: BSABSVR: telaran: BSABSVR: Trixie212: Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

They are this way in spite of their mother, not because of their mother.

What a horrible thing to say to someone. *plonk*

Way to white knight for a rape apologist.  You should be proud.  Yes it was horrible to say. By choice.  She is a horrible person.  Rape apologists are horrible.  Sorry that offends your delicate sensibilities.

I am not a rape apologist. And I am not a horrible person. But think what you want.


yes, you are a horrible person. People like you are the reason so many sexually abused young people are afraid to come forward, b/c they will be judged to be at fault.

The fact that if it was your daughter who was ganged raped you would tell her it was her fault for getting drunk is unconscionable.

You are absolutely a horrible person and people like you empower rapists while pressuring victims to remain silent.
2013-03-17 05:37:23 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: vygramul: It shouldn't take this level of detail.

It shouldn't? I guess in your world, we should believe a woman whenever she claims she was raped, right? After all, there's never been a case of a woman making up fake rape allegations, right?


Ugh, so many straw men in this thread.  You show me a case of a woman lying about being raped, and ill show you 9999 cases where women did NOT lie about being raped.  You miss the point entirely.  The problem is the sociopathic tendencies in males that leads to rape, and the fact that in some cultural bubbles, rape itself is tolerated.  I'd certainly agree that women lying about being raped is sociopathic in its own right, and should not be tolerated either, but it is orders of magnitude less important than the atrocities being committed by males in this case.
2013-03-17 05:36:29 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


Everyone knows they're rapists except people who are sick, twisted farks or members of their family.  Which are you?

Seriously, if you can't figure our what rape is, you would be well-served to never, ever have sex with anybody.
2013-03-17 05:30:42 PM
1 votes:

tirob: ZeroCorpse: THE DETAILS OF THIS CASE, FOR THE RAPE APOLOGIST ASSHOLES AND OTHERS TO DISCUSS:

KnightSec details pieced together:

...

All of this may be true, but the two offenders were not convicted of any of the acts alleged in your post, nor has anyone else been charged in connection with this crime.  Yet.



That's because the town's prosecutor was the parent of one of the "rape crew", the town police (including the sheriff) were business partners and pals with the coaches, and the coaches have been aware of this behavior and have supported it in the past.

There is no real justice here because the system in that town is totally corrupt.
2013-03-17 05:26:52 PM
1 votes:

vygramul: It shouldn't take this level of detail.


It shouldn't? I guess in your world, we should believe a woman whenever she claims she was raped, right? After all, there's never been a case of a woman making up fake rape allegations, right?
2013-03-17 05:22:46 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: Okay. I understand why that point of view pisses people off. I really do. And maybe I've dug my heels in because instead of talking to me about it the way you have, others have made personal attacks and acted like I've said these boys were unfairly prosecuted when I said nothing of the sort. Maybe Ive tried too hard to explain and just made it worse. There have been many times when I've disagreed with others on here in the worst way but I've never been vicious or put anyone on ignore.

I've been on Fark for almost nine years and now I remember why I rarely do anything other than lurk.


It's an emotionally charged subject for many people, on many levels. It makes it difficult to have rational discussions and arguments and can make it end up feeling and/or being personal as well. Plus, the internet ;)

FWIW I didn't plonk you because while I don't agree with your position (or perhaps more accurately how you stated your position as well as most of it ;)) I 'get' where you're coming from and I don't believe you're trolling or being disingenous. Honest disagreements among people will happen. Just as an additional aside, many rape victims engage in a whole lot of self blame, it's one of the more traumatic aspects of recovering from sexual assault. This isn't a 'lets use the lavender pen to spare the snowflakes' issue, it's really a fundamental issue of 'the victim of rape is never ever at fault, by definition'. People talking about 'oh the girl just regrets it the next day', well that's not rape. And she would be making a false allegation. Rape, period, is wrong, period. As to the rest, I spoke to it previously in an uber long post about why we focus so much on feeling safe, feeling like we can prevent.

And FWIW I don't think you're a horrible human being, but how you approached it was. Just as I don't think some of those kids were monsters, but what they did was monsterous. (NOT comparing you to that in any way, realized it could sound bad in text. But I'm subtle as godzilla, no subtext. :))
2013-03-17 05:09:00 PM
1 votes:

vygramul: ZeroCorpse: THE DETAILS OF THIS CASE, FOR THE RAPE APOLOGIST ASSHOLES AND OTHERS TO DISCUSS:

It shouldn't take this level of detail.


Nope, it shouldn't. And yet watch who'll still spin around to defend 'em.
2013-03-17 05:08:32 PM
1 votes:

Madbassist1: tirob: If you're correct, it's certainly too bad for the two offenders that the defense could not scrape up a single witness who would have testified that the complainant consented, isn't it?

Id certainly say so, yes.


And this notwithstanding the fact that several other people appear to have witnessed the offenders' acts.  I'm going to go with the theory that no such witness was available because there was no evidence that the complainant consented, and a good bit of evidence that she was legally incapable of consenting.  Darn those perjury statutes.
2013-03-17 05:04:21 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: verbal_jizm: Trixie212: Lorelle: Trixie212: Not that it matters considering what WAS done to her but I understood the news to say that no one urinated on her.

This article states that one asshole claimed that he was joking when he offered $3 to anyone who peed on the unconscious victim, but that no one took him up on it:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/highschool--steubenville-high-school-fo ot ball-players-found-guilty-of-raping-16-year-old-girl-164129528.html

The asshole who made the video that appears in the previous link I posted stated otherwise, and other reports note that other witnesses sent text messages stating that the victim WAS urinated on.

Again, what they did to her was brutal and disgusting.

Just curious...if one of your daughters became a victim of date rape, would you consider her 50% responsible because she dared to go out on a date in the first place?

It will not matter how I answer that question. I will be absolutely wrong...and vilified. People will pick out a portion of what I said and overlook the rest because after all, I am horrible.

/welcome to Fark, blah, blah, blah

Maybe you don't see the way you come across. It seems you are saying that girls/women have a societal responsibility over whether they are raped. I can't speak for everyone else but I'm frustrated with this point of view because I believe a woman's responsibility to protect herself is a personal one only. If she gets raped, whatever the circumstances, the societal blame should 100% be on the rapist.

Maybe. I think part of the problem is that I've been trying to tap out every response one letter at a time on a mobile phone and haven't taken the time to elaborate or explain as much as I could have.

In a nutshell, the boys were wrong, criminally liable and deserved to be convicted. They had no excuse for raping her. There are others who are partially responsible for encouraging them and attempting to cover it up and should be held accountable as well. Whoever provided ...


Okay, sub in 'going out with others' for drinking alcohol. There are some religious people who believe it's immoral for girls to even socialize with boys, etc. Imagine this was a middle eastern case and they were blaming the girl for being unchaperoned with boys. From an early age mothers tell their children this! Etc. Or super Christian and she was dressing "like a slut" because she was showing some ankle. Whatever.

Do you think that type of argument is any way valid other than 'technically'? I mean we could say if only her vagina had been sewn shut, and that would be technically valid.

Do you see where that gets into ridiculous victim blaming? NO ONE (sane and reasonable mind you) is saying that getting drunk is a good idea for teenage boys or girls. Not a one. But it's as much a nonissue in her rape as what she was wearing.

Everyone gets that you don't think it's smart for a teen to get drunk. No one is disagreeing with that. It's the 'And that's how you end up raped' portion that people are finding absolutely horrific. And if that's NOT what you're trying to convey...you might want to reread your posts and see where everyone is getting that impression.
2013-03-17 05:01:35 PM
1 votes:
It's not Fark, it's Rapeenthusiast.com
2013-03-17 04:56:35 PM
1 votes:

verbal_jizm: Trixie212: Lorelle: Trixie212: Not that it matters considering what WAS done to her but I understood the news to say that no one urinated on her.

This article states that one asshole claimed that he was joking when he offered $3 to anyone who peed on the unconscious victim, but that no one took him up on it:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/highschool--steubenville-high-school-fo ot ball-players-found-guilty-of-raping-16-year-old-girl-164129528.html

The asshole who made the video that appears in the previous link I posted stated otherwise, and other reports note that other witnesses sent text messages stating that the victim WAS urinated on.

Again, what they did to her was brutal and disgusting.

Just curious...if one of your daughters became a victim of date rape, would you consider her 50% responsible because she dared to go out on a date in the first place?

It will not matter how I answer that question. I will be absolutely wrong...and vilified. People will pick out a portion of what I said and overlook the rest because after all, I am horrible.

/welcome to Fark, blah, blah, blah

Maybe you don't see the way you come across. It seems you are saying that girls/women have a societal responsibility over whether they are raped. I can't speak for everyone else but I'm frustrated with this point of view because I believe a woman's responsibility to protect herself is a personal one only. If she gets raped, whatever the circumstances, the societal blame should 100% be on the rapist.


She's the vegetarian in the room clucking her tongue about the horrors of eating meat when someone gets cancer. Sure, maybe it's more likely for a meat eater to get certain types of cancer, but it's not apropos to the immediate issue, and it's downright shiatty. And when called out on it, saying 'Well I would say this even about someone I love' is even shiattier. And then someone raising the strawman that it's like a three pack a day smoker...same thing right?!

Trix, tell you what I do. I've had opinions I felt strongly about...and looked at who was agreeing with me and who wasn't. When people I have no respect for in any manner are the ones I share an opinion with...and people I respect are telling me my head is up my ass...I keep looking at the issue. I don't form my opinion based on who's with me and who's not...but the odds of me being the lone voice of wisdom in the wilderness is pretty low.
2013-03-17 04:54:09 PM
1 votes:

telaran: BSABSVR: Trixie212: Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

They are this way in spite of their mother, not because of their mother.

What a horrible thing to say to someone. *plonk*


Way to white knight for a rape apologist.  You should be proud.  Yes it was horrible to say. By choice.  She is a horrible person.  Rape apologists are horrible.  Sorry that offends your delicate sensibilities.
2013-03-17 04:48:35 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: Lorelle: Trixie212: Not that it matters considering what WAS done to her but I understood the news to say that no one urinated on her.

This article states that one asshole claimed that he was joking when he offered $3 to anyone who peed on the unconscious victim, but that no one took him up on it:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/highschool--steubenville-high-school-fo ot ball-players-found-guilty-of-raping-16-year-old-girl-164129528.html

The asshole who made the video that appears in the previous link I posted stated otherwise, and other reports note that other witnesses sent text messages stating that the victim WAS urinated on.

Again, what they did to her was brutal and disgusting.

Just curious...if one of your daughters became a victim of date rape, would you consider her 50% responsible because she dared to go out on a date in the first place?

It will not matter how I answer that question. I will be absolutely wrong...and vilified. People will pick out a portion of what I said and overlook the rest because after all, I am horrible.

/welcome to Fark, blah, blah, blah


Maybe you don't see the way you come across. It seems you are saying that girls/women have a societal responsibility over whether they are raped. I can't speak for everyone else but I'm frustrated with this point of view because I believe a woman's responsibility to protect herself is a personal one only. If she gets raped, whatever the circumstances, the societal blame should 100% be on the rapist.
2013-03-17 04:24:28 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.


They are this way in spite of their mother, not because of their mother.
2013-03-17 04:05:37 PM
1 votes:

Madbassist1: I should be in the kitchen: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

If a group of females gang raped a teen boy, I'd expect there to be consequences as well.

There is never any excuse to rape, EVER. I don't care how someone is dressed or what they've consumed, don't farking rape. Is that so goddamn hard to understand?

Except I dont think that's what happened. I think she was a willing participant and passed out after the fact. Just my opinion based on what I know. I havent followed it on Nancy Grace or anything.


If you're correct, it's certainly too bad for the two offenders that the defense could not scrape up a single witness who would have testified that the complainant consented, isn't it?
2013-03-17 04:03:58 PM
1 votes:
img46.imageshack.us
2013-03-17 03:49:30 PM
1 votes:

telaran: Lady Indica: We don't hear a mother claiming that if her daughter were crippled in a wreck, that she'd be lecturing her on her personal responsibility.

Actually, that does happen, though I wouldn't describe it as "lecturing." After my cousin's jeep was smashed into and thrown off the road by a drunk driver, it was pretty common in my family for a while to hear about how driving late at night was dangerous and to just wait until morning if we needed something so we didn't get hit by a drunk driver. No one called it victim blaming, though, oddly enough; we all recognized that it wasn't my cousin's fault, but we also realized that it's acceptable to take action to minimize risk because there are drivers out there who have had it drilled into them not to drive drunk but, despite efforts of organizations and people both governmental and nongovernmental, still do it.

[www.drive-safely.net image 300x207]


No offense, but if I was your cousin, I would tell whoever was saying that shiat to shut the fark up. It is victim blaming. It's passive-aggressive blaming of your cousin for driving on a road she had every right to drive on, perfectly sober when some other jackass broke the law and injured her through no fault of her own.

There will be times you have no choice but to be on the road late at night: late work shift, have to drive someone to the emergency room...whatever, cannot be helped. I had to be on the road late at night for just such a reason when I was hit head on by a drunk driver traveling northbound on the southbound lanes of the freeway with no lights on her vehicle on a particularly dark stretch of the freeway. By your family's logic, I shouldn't have been driving home, perfectly sober, late at night so that drunk biatch could nearly kill me. I should have rented a hotel room--every night, five days a week--or slept at my desk so I didn't run into anyone breaking the law. Idiotic logic, don't you think?

It is no different from telling a woman not to wear anything other than baggy jeans and a shapeless top that covers her all the way to her chin when she goes out, and under no circumstances should she consume anything with a drop of alcohol or go out without at least one big, strong male accompanying her. The implication is that if she wears anything that shows a tiny bit of skin or drinks one sip of alcohol while unaccompanied, anything that happens is her own fault. Same thing with your family's "warning": if you drive late at night and get in a wreck, it's your own fault for being on the road because you should know better. It's asinine. Rule of thumb is, if you'd get pissed if a cop or insurance adjuster said it to you, don't farking say it to anyone else. The statement being made regarding driving might make sense when it comes to a 7-11 munchie run, but it has no real practical application beyond that.
2013-03-17 03:24:54 PM
1 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: Hey, Fiona Apple, a more appropriate description for me would be "men are inherently animals lead by their penis, especially juveniles, so biatches best not get comatose drunk around them and expect them to cherish their honor. Because that shiat ain't smart, yo."


I hope you (and the others who share your sentiment) aren't among the Farkers who, in other threads, biatch about the damn feminazis thinking everything with a penis is a rapist. Ditto the Farkers mocking fundie Islamists who believe women should all be in burkas lest they ignite the passions of the menfolk with a sexy ankle and force those men to rape them.

/'cause, you know, that'd be hypocritical
//in addition to just being disgusting
2013-03-17 02:44:15 PM
1 votes:

iaazathot: Bontesla: iaazathot: Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.

Why do you think blaming rape victims is helpful to women or rape victims?

The only risk factor for being raped is being in the presence of a rapist. Most of the time - the victim isn't aware they're in the presence of a rapist until after the rape.

Wearing frumpy clothes doesn't prevent rape. Traveling in groups doesn't prevent rape. Drinking doesn't prevent rape.

Suggesting that if only this girl remained sober, she wouldn't have been raped is absurd and speculative.

Teaching people that you can avoid rape if you follow these things is incredibly cruel to the victims that have followed all of the rules and still ended up being raped.

I do understand what you are saying, right up until that last sentence.  Statistically speaking, you are less likely to be raped or sexually assaulted if drugs and/or alcohol are not involved.  Probabilities decrease, but never fall to zero.

As a self-defense instructor, it would be patently irresponsible for me to not discuss these facts with the people who come to me for advice and help.  The difference is leaving the judgement factor out of it.  I don't judge a victim, after the fact, for having been intoxicated.  It serves no purpose to do so, and would be cruel and uncaring.

Your statements about what does and doesn't prevent rape is a binary one, and doesn't reflect statistical reality.  More rapes happen in isolation than not. More rapes happen when drugs and alcohol are present (this can vary by culture and extreme circumstance (war for example) I am speaking about American culture right now).  The dressing thing is really complex and difficult to parse, so I will side with you on that.

Pointing out statistical facts to people increases their abili ...


Again - I said there's a difference between teaching precaution and blaming victims for not taking precaution.

Being proactive is helpful but the only thing that causes rape are rapists. We should arm everyone with knowledge on how to mitigate their risk at being victims (in general - not merely for rape). But suggesting that a woman or man could prevent their own rape if only is insulting particularly to victims that have followed all of the precautions yet still were raped.

Rapists are the only cause of rape.
2013-03-17 02:33:51 PM
1 votes:

Marcintosh: vudukungfu: Perhaps folks would be less whimsical about all of this is she has died and they had kept going all schoolboy on her.

If your classmate is impaired, you protect them.

Period.

This-
women have the right to say no at any time.
How would it be if these little bro's got drunk and were raped?
Would it be funny then?
Would it be okay?


Are we talking in current-day...knowing what we know about these guys?  How they thought rape was something to brag about?  Something hilarious?

Then yes, it would be pretty funny.
2013-03-17 02:32:35 PM
1 votes:

vudukungfu: Perhaps folks would be less whimsical about all of this is she has died and they had kept going all schoolboy on her.

If your classmate is impaired, you protect them.

Period.


This-
women have the right to say no at any time.
How would it be if these little bro's got drunk and were raped?
Would it be funny then?
Would it be okay?
2013-03-17 02:26:40 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49:
As far as I understood initial reports, he wasn't the only one "enjoying" the pics though.  Sure, he's the only one being punished.

Because the punishment was for distribution.  If we start going into possession by teenagers we open up that can of worms we were discussing, especially considering the media allows for unsolicited procurement.

Logic, meet SubBass49.


agileproductdesign.com

But you sure do use that word a lot. don't you?
2013-03-17 02:26:36 PM
1 votes:

Lorelle: Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.

That $#@!& POS Richmond also was photographed lifting up the victim's top and exposing her breasts to others.  And some of the others involved (who so far have gotten away with their crimes) also urinated on her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256386/Steubenville-rape-ca se -Video-shows-group-high-school-students-laughing-girls-ordeal.html

What those assholes did to her WAS brutal, despite what some here think. It's too bad that they will probably only do a year in juvie. The victim is going to have to deal with the fallout from this for the rest of her life.


And then to hear about the details from "friends", twitter, Instagram, and Facebook? That's such an exposed and horrific way to learn about it.

Then she was threatened by many, many bullies for coming forward and asking questions.

It's appalling.
2013-03-17 02:25:00 PM
1 votes:

Quigs: I'm just saying the law/the society who agrees with the law are all saying the person who drinks is at fault, even if there's a death... except if it's rape, because we said so.


If you drink and pass out you're guilty of being drunk in public (if you're in public).  If someone comes along and decides that it would be hilarious to put their fingers inside you, that's rape, even if they're drunk too.

Not sure what the confusion here is.
2013-03-17 02:20:17 PM
1 votes:

Lorelle: Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.

That $#@!& POS Richmond also was photographed lifting up the victim's top and exposing her breasts to others.  And some of the others involved (who so far have gotten away with their crimes) also urinated on her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256386/Steubenville-rape-ca se -Video-shows-group-high-school-students-laughing-girls-ordeal.html

What those assholes did to her WAS brutal, despite what some here think. It's too bad that they will probably only do a year in juvie. The victim is going to have to deal with the fallout from this for the rest of her life.


Not that it matters considering what WAS done to her but I understood the news to say that no one urinated on her.
2013-03-17 02:19:57 PM
1 votes:
Perhaps folks would be less whimsical about all of this is she has died and they had kept going all schoolboy on her.

If your classmate is impaired, you protect them.

Period.
2013-03-17 02:18:41 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: Tak the Hideous New Girl: I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

See Trixie, this is why people think you are a horrible person (for the record I think you are a horrible person too).

You have a crying, traumatized girl (your daughter!) who's worried that she got a disease or is pregnant, is terrified that there pictures of her shame are all over Twitter or Facebook (something I did not have to worry about back in the dinosaur age, thank goodness), and your reaction is to tell your daughter, "Too bad, so sad, you should have made better choices."

I already understood what people thought. You're entitled to feel the way you do. I've been on Fark for a number of years and have taken exception to a lot of things people have said but I've never told anyone they were a horrible person.


I am being unfair to you. There are a whole lot of horrible people on this thread. You're being singled out because you'd heap shame on your own daughter.

Let's call out some other horrible people:

Popcorn Johnny - biatch probably wanted it.
hasy ambush - biatchez be lyin'
captainmaxthedestroyer - We can't help it! Men are slaves to their genitalia! If my dick wants it, biatchez better watch out!
Madbassist1 - Hey biatchez, take some responsibility when some guy(s) rapes your drunk, passed out ass and posts it all over the internet!
Initial Comment Guy - Rape, schmape, Anonymous convicted these guys and biatch probably wanted her unconscious fingerbang posted all over the internet anyway. biatchez are like that, amiright?
skwerl - I don't know nothin' but biatch probably ruined those two nice boys life over nothing.
2013-03-17 02:15:40 PM
1 votes:

Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.


That $#@!& POS Richmond also was photographed lifting up the victim's top and exposing her breasts to others.  And some of the others involved (who so far have gotten away with their crimes) also urinated on her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256386/Steubenville-rape-ca se -Video-shows-group-high-school-students-laughing-girls-ordeal.html

What those assholes did to her WAS brutal, despite what some here think. It's too bad that they will probably only do a year in juvie. The victim is going to have to deal with the fallout from this for the rest of her life.
2013-03-17 02:14:27 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Life sentences?  I never said that.  Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.  Something more appropriate would have been a middle ground though.  Serving until age 18 in a juvenile facility, followed by transfer to an adult facility for a term of 5 years additional, plus lifetime registration as sex offenders.  THAT sentence would seem just.  THAT sentence would have me completely satisfied.  ONE year is a farking joke, and you know it.  They know it too.


Welcome to sentencing guidelines.  Being fingered while intoxicated in Ohio gets a year.  Want a change?  Talk to your local legislature.

How about transmission of child-porn via cell phones?

How about rape of a minor?

1. So we're going to choose to go with rape of a minor by a minor now?

2. And yeah, we can set some precedence on child porn via cell phones.  Then we also need to start prosecuting any teenager found with nude selfies for the same offense.


1. Yes.

2. These weren't selfies.  These were pics of her passed out unconscious while two guys raped her and jizzed on her.  Quite different.  If you dont' see that, then I'm guessing you don't see much.
2013-03-17 02:09:38 PM
1 votes:

SubBass49: Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.


Rape is never appropriate, whether its happening to teenage girls or prisoners. "When is it morally permissible to rape someone" should be a question that is only ever answered with "never."
2013-03-17 02:01:27 PM
1 votes:

natmar_76: One year in juvenile detention? That's it?

Our country is farked up.


I wonder what sentence the victim got, being "half responsible" and all.
2013-03-17 01:58:46 PM
1 votes:

Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.

Why do you think blaming rape victims is helpful to women or rape victims?

The only risk factor for being raped is being in the presence of a rapist. Most of the time - the victim isn't aware they're in the presence of a rapist until after the rape.

Wearing frumpy clothes doesn't prevent rape. Traveling in groups doesn't prevent rape. Drinking doesn't prevent rape.

Suggesting that if only this girl remained sober, she wouldn't have been raped is absurd and speculative.

Teaching people that you can avoid rape if you follow these things is incredibly cruel to the victims that have followed all of the rules and still ended up being raped.


I do understand what you are saying, right up until that last sentence.  Statistically speaking, you are less likely to be raped or sexually assaulted if drugs and/or alcohol are not involved.  Probabilities decrease, but never fall to zero.

As a self-defense instructor, it would be patently irresponsible for me to not discuss these facts with the people who come to me for advice and help.  The difference is leaving the judgement factor out of it.  I don't judge a victim, after the fact, for having been intoxicated.  It serves no purpose to do so, and would be cruel and uncaring.

Your statements about what does and doesn't prevent rape is a binary one, and doesn't reflect statistical reality.  More rapes happen in isolation than not. More rapes happen when drugs and alcohol are present (this can vary by culture and extreme circumstance (war for example) I am speaking about American culture right now).  The dressing thing is really complex and difficult to parse, so I will side with you on that.

Pointing out statistical facts to people increases their ability to make  choices for themselves that could keep them out of trouble.  Your last sentence says that I should refrain from that to protect the sensitivities of those who fall into another statistical spectrum (through no fault of there own).  That would be very irresponsible for me as a self-defense instructor.  How I go about that is, of course, very important, and that is where the judgement factor needs to be left out.

When you are talking about helping people, you have the leave the judgement of victims AND the righteous anger out of the equation, because it is not you who is making the choices.  It is them, and people can only make good choices if they have good information.

I am sorry for your pain.  Obviously, as with me, this is a personal issue for you.
2013-03-17 01:55:46 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: Polyhazard: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.

Because that totally agrees with what I said.

What you SAID is that once a girl become intoxicated, she is just as responsible for being raped as the person who rapes her.

You say your children understand this as well. Your sons believe now that they are 100% responsible for raping a sober girl, but only 50% responsible if she had something to drink.

You are telling them that their own responsibility for rape can be mitigated by the victim's decision to drink.

Spent a lot of time twisting that, didn't you?


What part did Polyhazard twist? That falls in line with everything you've posted. You even said that if the girl had been sober she wouldn't have "shared responsibility" in what happened to her.
2013-03-17 01:49:50 PM
1 votes:

aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.


Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the form of civil judgments against those involved. I wonder how much of it will be covered by various home owner insurance policies.

You can see in this very thread, despite the abundance of evidence in this case to rape, how many rape apologists there are. How many who say the victim is somehow responsible. Those are the type of people too stupid to get out of jury duty adjudicating these cases.
2013-03-17 01:46:44 PM
1 votes:

hasty ambush: Given the percentage of men being wrongly accused of rape (Yes maybe a rape did occur but the wrong person is accused) I treat all rape allegations with a high degree of of skepticism.


You found a 25% failure rate and some ancedotes to back up your misogyny. Congratulations.
2013-03-17 01:45:58 PM
1 votes:
www.movie-poster-artwork-finder.com

You know...maybe it's just wishful thinking, but there's a part of me that wishes that a small team of "justice-bringers" would start keeping a list of people that got slaps on the wrist for things that completely destroyed another person's life, and then hunted them to extinction.

Or if they didn't kill them, then at least inflicted the same pain, humiliation, and shame on their victims...publicly.  Like sending around pics on the interwebs of these guys passed out drunk with brooms shoved up their poop-chutes so everyone can laugh at them, and call them broom-buddies.  You know...justice that inflicts the feelings of victimhood upon them that they so gleefully handed out to another.

Yeah...wishful thinking...I know.
2013-03-17 01:45:06 PM
1 votes:
I heard about this when the victim went against a court order and posted the names of the 'juvenile offenders' to everyone who would listen. It was when she faced jail time for speaking out as a victim. that others got involved. A year? Pffffttttt. However, these boys names are shot. No hiding from the Internet.
2013-03-17 01:44:54 PM
1 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: /i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.



Oh, so you want to warn women about how males function. You know, I'm quite familiar with how guys like you think. It was no small factor in learning self defense. I'm not one of those looney, drunk in public, risk taking females...but I defend those people's safety. It annoys me when people go out of their way blame them for crimes enacted by real predators.

Our society is structured such that men use all sorts of lame excuses for sex crime when in places like France, nudity is commonplace. Get over yourself and stop trying to justify your male fantasies. A penis does not make a person special. Men can control their urges just as well as women. When they dont, it's a product of culture, not biology..and I stick by my original statement that society should allow me to dress or undress however I want without fear of violence. We dont live in the Middle East.
2013-03-17 01:36:50 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: I was a teenager.  I also didn't accept a drink I didn't personally mix/pour myself or give out a drink that wasn't witnessed being mixed by the person I made it for.


Yes, yes, we know, your wisdom and maturity came with you straight from the womb. You have been immaculate since, never having slipped up or made a mistake. We can take your word for it, since you're being so judgemental on the internet.
2013-03-17 01:36:32 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Even one drink from a stranger is enough to be drugged.  But again she did drink over six drinks if I recall the testimony... but no teenaged girl would pass out from six heavy drinks


Again, you're assuming she was accepting drinks from strangers without proof either way.  You're also making assumptions about the alcohol content in the drinks without proof either way.  In fact, you assume quite a bit about this case for some reason.
2013-03-17 01:34:59 PM
1 votes:
captainmaxthedestroyer:

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.

Please do tell us how men function, because you seem to be saying that he mere sight of a naked women sends men into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust and rapine. If that's the case the average life drawing/painting class should be banned forthwith! Art museums should have armed guards in every room!

Seriously are you saying that given the opportunity, the average dude would rape a vulnerable woman because he just can't help it? You certainly seem to have a low opinion of men's capacity for rationality.
2013-03-17 01:31:41 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.


So you never were a teenager, you were formed onto this sinful Earth fully-formed with all-seeing wisdom and judgement over others. How nice.
2013-03-17 01:30:18 PM
1 votes:

jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.


Because that totally agrees with what I said.
2013-03-17 01:27:04 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?


It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.
2013-03-17 01:26:44 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.


You've no way of proving either way that they were strangers since the girl doesn't remember a damn thing.

Unless they found everyone who gave her a drink last night and had them testify under oath that they'd never met the girl before, you have no idea.

Of course, her taking drinks from strangers fits your narrative of her irresponsibility much better, so there we are.
2013-03-17 01:24:32 PM
1 votes:

Polyhazard: Trixie212: casey17: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

Those would be the words of Trixie212.

Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

Did you raise your sons to believe that a drunk woman has "just as much responsibility" for her rape as the rapist, or just your daughters?


Not that any of you are even trying to hear everything I've said since its only convenient to pick out what you want to make an issue with, let me say this one more time. The boys are to blame for touching her in any damned way and yes, I raised my sons to know that have any sexual contact with a drunk female was reprehensible. I also raised my daughters to understand that all boys were not raised to respect females so it was their responsibility to remain in control.
2013-03-17 01:21:05 PM
1 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???


I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.
2013-03-17 01:20:10 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: SHARED.


Even in all caps, this is wrong.
2013-03-17 01:14:06 PM
1 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.

I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.


Well, all you people are doing is shaming victims. I'm sure that rape victims dont suffer enough. They totally need more finger wagging from all the security experts on Fark. And it doesnt come off at all as if you are telling people it was their fault they got raped...even though their attackers made the important decision to do the crime.

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.
2013-03-17 01:11:02 PM
1 votes:

iaazathot: Lenny_da_Hog: adamgreeney: It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

Let me guess: You're another one who thinks the "War on Women" is waged by men.

Let me guess, you're another one who thinks men are being oppressed?  Yep, those poor, poor men...


That whooshing sound is the point flying over your head.

Authoritarian women are just as responsible for the oppression of women as authoritarian men are. Judgmental morality against women, from women, shouldn't surprise anyone. Go to a Wednesday night Bible study meeting in a small church basement sometime to see how authoritarian women think.
2013-03-17 01:10:54 PM
1 votes:

The Great EZE: Was Fark always a place for rape apologists and /b/-level trolls or am I just getting old and tired of this site?


Yes.
2013-03-17 01:10:00 PM
1 votes:

Bontesla: Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

One last time, it's possible to believe the victim shares in some personal responsibility without being a "rape apologist". The whole situation is just sad.

/they both agree with me on this subje ...

Agreement doesn't make you right.

Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.


Not just "she has some responsibility, mind you. But EQUAL responsibility to that of the rapists.

This parent claims that if a girl is drunk and raped, she is exactly the moral equivalent of the person who decides to violate her bodily integrity. It's not even "people are responsible for their safety," it's something far worse.

So, parent... We heard what you'd tell your daughters. If your son rapes a girl after she has been drinking, will you be sure to explain to how it's just as much her fault as is? Will you make sure your sons know that women share 50% of the blame for being raped after they have a few beers?
2013-03-17 01:08:06 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: adamgreeney: It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

Let me guess: You're another one who thinks the "War on Women" is waged by men.


Let me guess, you're another one who thinks men are being oppressed?  Yep, those poor, poor men...
2013-03-17 01:07:41 PM
1 votes:
ITT: Rape victims should share blame because they don't know how to act like an adult and hold their liquor at the age of 16.
2013-03-17 01:07:04 PM
1 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.

I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.


This...sigh.
2013-03-17 01:05:20 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

Remember guys: fingering raping a drunk girl an unconscious girl earns you an execution.


I fixed it for you.
2013-03-17 01:04:17 PM
1 votes:
Was Fark always a place for rape apologists and /b/-level trolls or am I just getting old and tired of this site?
2013-03-17 01:04:15 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I said she SHARED respo ...


Things it is reasonable to expect will happen to you if you get black out drunk at 16: You get arrested for underage consumption, you have a really bad hangover, you end up in the ER with alcohol poisoning.

Things you shouldn't expect to happen if you get black out drunk: You get raped or sexual assaulted.
2013-03-17 01:01:29 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

/they both agree with me on this subject


InitialCommentGuy: I remember delivering around 40k in computer equipment on one of my first runs being forced off a main strip by a blockade of burnt out vehicles.


Sure you remember that. Everything you write is plausible. We totally believe you.
2013-03-17 01:00:12 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.
.


May I suggest that you go over the local rape statutes before you go sticking your finger in anyone else in Ohio in the near future?

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.02

"No person shall engage in sexual conduct with another who is not the spouse of the offender or who is the spouse of the offender but is living separate and apart from the offender, when any of the following applies:

a) For the purpose of preventing resistance, the offender substantially impairs the other person's judgment or control by administering any drug, intoxicant, or controlled substance to the other person surreptitiously or by force, threat of force, or deception."

 As used in sections 2907.01 [ff.] of the Revised Code:
(A) "Sexual conduct" means vaginal intercourse between a male and female; anal intercourse, fellatio, and cunnilingus between persons regardless of sex; and, without privilege to do so, the insertion, however slight, of any part of the body or any instrument, apparatus, or other object into the vaginal or anal opening of another. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete vaginal or anal intercourse.

The boy who penetrated that girl's vagina was delinquent of rape according to Ohio law.  If you don't like it, complain to the Ohio legislature.
2013-03-17 12:57:10 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: office_despot: I started college young, so when I was her age I was starting my freshman year.  And drinking hard for the first time.  I didn't really know what my limits were.  So that first week, I went to a party, drank a lot of beer, and started flirting with a guy (an athlete).  I even told him where I lived.  And then on the way back to my dorm later, by myself, I decided it would be a good idea to take a nap on the steps of a building.  Along came that same guy -- pretty drunk himself -- woke me up, got me back on my feet, and walked me all the way to my room where he could hand me off safely to my roommate.

Just remember -- people always have options.  Any one of us can always help someone who needs help.

 It's not "understandable" they did this, it's not "her bad judgment," that's at fault -- it's their shiatty upbringings.  And apparently those of everyone at that party.

And a lot of the people in Steubenville, it seems.  For generations, if we believe Traci Lords.


I attended college not too far away from Steubenville. I was friends with one guy who said sexual violence isn't particularly rare at parties. He said it was just the culture. It wasn't a big deal. There were a lot of churches. Many thought rape was just . . . almost like a punishment for women for being somewhere they shouldn't be or doing something they shouldn't be doing.

He was so unnervingly non-nonchalant about it. He said he was disgusted by it and got the hell outta there as soon as he could . . .  but I found it to be much more disturbing than he thought it was. This was back in 2003ish.

When this victim came forward - many people accused her of being an outsider trying to take things out of context. It reminded me of the conversations I had with that classmate.
2013-03-17 12:55:55 PM
1 votes:

casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.



I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

One last time, it's possible to believe the victim shares in some personal responsibility without being a "rape apologist". The whole situation is just sad.

/they both agree with me on this subject
//not that you care
2013-03-17 12:54:57 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: Anyone has the ability to perform horrible acts.  You believe we have evolved, I know by personal experience that we are a few days without power or food away from savagery


Depends on where you live.  In America, yes.

In Japan, no.

Think about it.
2013-03-17 12:54:17 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


We have a thing called a justice system with 12 people and a judge and everything.  It's really cool.  Lawyers do this thing where they present evidence and then reasonable people decide after that.  I mean, it's not fool-proof but it's a indicator or something.  Really neat how it all works.  Sometimes you can go to a courthouse and watch or read or even turn on the tv to see how it all works.
2013-03-17 12:54:17 PM
1 votes:

casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.


The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?
2013-03-17 12:52:06 PM
1 votes:

Bontesla: Except that anyone completely attributing this night to alcohol is engaging in unfounded speculation.

I'm not saying drugs were involved - but certainly police that the possibility existed. It just could not be proven.


Which is exactly what I said.  "We can't tell" and "we don't prove it" put us on the same side of the fence.

The question of drugs didn't matter in the end. It's irrelevant to this case.
2013-03-17 12:48:51 PM
1 votes:

office_despot: I started college young, so when I was her age I was starting my freshman year.  And drinking hard for the first time.  I didn't really know what my limits were.  So that first week, I went to a party, drank a lot of beer, and started flirting with a guy (an athlete).  I even told him where I lived.  And then on the way back to my dorm later, by myself, I decided it would be a good idea to take a nap on the steps of a building.  Along came that same guy -- pretty drunk himself -- woke me up, got me back on my feet, and walked me all the way to my room where he could hand me off safely to my roommate.

Just remember -- people always have options.  Any one of us can always help someone who needs help.

 It's not "understandable" they did this, it's not "her bad judgment," that's at fault -- it's their shiatty upbringings.  And apparently those of everyone at that party.


And a lot of the people in Steubenville, it seems.  For generations, if we believe Traci Lords.
2013-03-17 12:45:32 PM
1 votes:

Guess_Who: Putting your fingers inside the school whore who is drunk is considered rape now?

an insult to true victims out there.


Yes, when someone is so drunk that they cant even stand up, and you penetrate them either digitally or with your genitals, it is rape, regardless of who that person is or how much you deride them as being a whore.

Glad we could clear that up.
2013-03-17 12:43:27 PM
1 votes:

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


You're assuming that if she had been able to say no, they would have stopped. Do you know that if she said no or not? And if she had, would that have made her not responsible? Could she have fought off the group of guys if she had tried to leave?

You're finding any reason to blame her even though you have no idea how or if she could have stopped it from happening. Unless your contention is that all girls should stay at home unless accompanied by an adult male chaperon. . .
2013-03-17 12:42:47 PM
1 votes:

Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.

There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."

It's like you only read a portion of my post...

No. The evidence is the timeline of events pieced together by eye witness testimony. Yes - she ingested alcohol. She likely ingested a significant portion of it. However - eye witness testimony does one helluva job suggesting that maybe she ingested a little more than alcohol. It's certainly plausible - and something that the police never ruled out in the case. They simply had insufficient evidence to establish it.

But given that there were a handful of other accounts in which girls woke up partially disrobed with memory loss is certainly interesting. There's one particular instance in which someone was posting anonymous comments online speculating that she could have been a victim. She said that she doesn't like the taste of beer so she only had one - one that she didn't finish. And that's all she could remember. She woke up almost entirely naked the next day. That's the ultimate light weight.

She also never came forward and gave her testimony to the police - but is that really surprising?

Who the hell knows what happened? Certainly not you or I. But let's not attribute the entire evening to alcohol - especially given the amount of questions surrounding the night's events.


Which is why *I* am not engaging in unfounded speculation.
2013-03-17 12:40:23 PM
1 votes:

adamgreeney: She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape.


Why are you being so helpful to rapists?
2013-03-17 12:40:17 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: jso2897:

Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.
---------------
I enjoy seeing the hackles get raised whenever someone is held accountable for their actions.  Of course it is usually just the same two or three who come out but it provides for some fun interactions on the most drunken day of the year.

Personally I'm going to go out and rape a leprechaun today.  It feels right.


Careful, you might get raped by a drunken reveller. Or get run over and killed by one. They won't be responsible, because they're drunk. Have fun!
2013-03-17 12:40:16 PM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: digital manipulation while intoxicated.


It looks like you misspelled "rape".
2013-03-17 12:39:50 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.

There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."


It's like you only read a portion of my post...

No. The evidence is the timeline of events pieced together by eye witness testimony. Yes - she ingested alcohol. She likely ingested a significant portion of it. However - eye witness testimony does one helluva job suggesting that maybe she ingested a little more than alcohol. It's certainly plausible - and something that the police never ruled out in the case. They simply had insufficient evidence to establish it.

But given that there were a handful of other accounts in which girls woke up partially disrobed with memory loss is certainly interesting. There's one particular instance in which someone was posting anonymous comments online speculating that she could have been a victim. She said that she doesn't like the taste of beer so she only had one - one that she didn't finish. And that's all she could remember. She woke up almost entirely naked the next day. That's the ultimate light weight.

She also never came forward and gave her testimony to the police - but is that really surprising?

Who the hell knows what happened? Certainly not you or I. But let's not attribute the entire evening to alcohol - especially given the amount of questions surrounding the night's events.
2013-03-17 12:38:55 PM
1 votes:
You have got to love the cult of sports.  We dangle a carrot in front of our children's faces of million dollar celebrity status jobs, and select based purely on physical abilities.  Save for few examples, most sports involve little to no intellectual abilities.  Thats not to say some sports aren't less intellectual than others - looking at you football.  Many football players take pride in being called "meatheads" in the U.S.,  they actually celebrate being dumb, and they are the ones for some reason being pruned for careers as multi-millionaires, or at the very least ushered through an easy path to a (squandered) college education.  And we have been doing this for generations.

As for the legal end of things I don't see why we don't look at rape in a similar light as how we look at murder.  I think theres pretty universal acceptance from people of all walks of life that murder warrants harsh punishment, it should not be tolerated in society what-so-ever.  Is rape that far off from murder?  I don't think so.  This is an act that has the potential to permanently alter the emotional health of someone.  But from the perspective of punishing individuals, in the case of both rape and murder alike, great caution should be taken to avoid instances where an innocent person is punished.  If we let our prejudices get in the way, even if they are sort of valid - many football players are total asshole people - we run the risk of taking one act of injustice and replacing it with another.
2013-03-17 12:32:10 PM
1 votes:

adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.


I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.
2013-03-17 12:31:08 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: yelmrog: Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.

The problem with alcohol is that is significantly affects your decision making abilities.

Again, do we hold people responsible for their actions when under the influence of an intoxicating substance, or do we not?


The point I'm making is that I believe there are no victims when alcohol and drugs involved.  There can still be guilty parties, but there are no victims.
2013-03-17 12:30:57 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: farkplug:

The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent?

If bragging about getting sex from a drunk chick was a crime, most of the men in America would be locked up.

Sexually assaulting a "chick" so drunk that she's completely passed out with a bunch of your buds and bragging about it by text with a bunch of your buds is what passes for "getting sex", these days? Oh, most-of-the-men-in-America, you sexy Lotharios, you!
2013-03-17 12:28:42 PM
1 votes:

yelmrog: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.

Not to mention the moniker of "rape crew" that these guys were known by prior to the event.


This.
2013-03-17 12:25:43 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.


No, it *IS* assault regardless of the gender. These kind of assholes should be held responsible for their actions no matter WHO they terrorize.

I hope the parents of these kids are shamed daily by the people around them for letting their kids turn out this way. "Precious Snowflake" my ass.
2013-03-17 12:23:42 PM
1 votes:
At least they've been outed on the Internet, so no suppression of juvenile records is going to keep future schools/employers/girlfriends from knowing exactly who they are dealing with.  That may be a bigger punishment than the year or so in juvie.
2013-03-17 12:21:00 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?


You're way off base here.

What the fark is an affirmative actor?  In no way did I denounce the guilty for giving in to their temptation.

I just believe that people are foolish and naive in mindset to believe that it's society's obligation to take care of them when they put themselves into bad situations.  The world is not a nice and gentle place.  There are predators out there and if you choose to intoxicate yourself because you believe otherwise you shouldn't be surprised when you get attacked.
2013-03-17 12:20:48 PM
1 votes:

Quaker: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.


Drunk is bad.  But unconscious is unacceptable.  I prefer my women awake when we start.  Maybe in a near coma, drooling, babbling incoherently and having lost all motor control when we finish.  The first prime requisite for consensual sex should always be that she KNOWS she's having sex.  Not just suspects it the next day.
2013-03-17 12:19:30 PM
1 votes:

adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I don't say this lightly, but you in no way should be a parent or be allowed to have any say in the ethical upbringing of children. Jesus christ, you're the reason women are afraid to come forward about being raped and are afraid to say no.

In no way is she responsible for what they forcibly did to her. She didn't consent, she didn't ask for it, she just got drunk. People get drunk all the time. By your reasoning, any woman out drinking should expect and accept that they might get raped, and it's their fault if it happens for making bad choices.

Even if the girl was a "train wreck," that doesn't justify anything. Many girls are seen as "sluts" and "train wrecks," but that doesn't mean they have a welcome mat over their vagina when they are passed out. I'm honestly disgusted that you find any fault with her at all.


You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand
2013-03-17 12:15:17 PM
1 votes:

adamgreeney: The prosecutor, in my opinion, dropped the ball because they were afraid pushing for a harsher sentence would be tossed out due to the culture of the town and the ridiculous bias towards the kids and the football team. They deserve more, but they didn't get it. At least they got put away for a while.


I'm not a lawyer, but the legal analysts were saying that to get juveniles convicted as an adult with any kind of success rate you either need to show them as career criminals (repeat offenders) or really cold blooded farkers.  The entire assault was 6 hours, but not really something you could break into multiple occurrences so repeat offender was out.  For the cold blooded thing, the kids were drunk and being cheered on by the crowd.  While that doesn't excuse the rape, it makes it hard to paint them as cold blooded scum.  The defense will just come back with young, dumb, and drunk morons whose handle should be handled by a juvenile court (and you only have to convince part of a jury to hang it).

I was thinking about it as a juror and trying them as an adult would be a bit of an uphill battle.  The prosecutors were bringing in other witnesses who performed acts but were given immunity and all that.  So it would be a bit of a hard sell to say "Well these guys get to walk, these guys in the video we're not even going after, but these two, we want to try them as adults."  If you're going to cherry pick out two people from the entire group of juvenile scum and argue these two alone deserve to go up the river as adults, you better have something good on them.  Supposedly the prosecutors were having trouble getting people to testify, so I can see why they might want to play it a bit safe.

/really justice would be making the kids pay massive restitution to cover the girl's therapy bills
2013-03-17 12:15:11 PM
1 votes:

yelmrog: Trixie212: My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys.

Go read some details about the case.  Seriously.


I've been reading the details for several days. I never said the boys weren't guilty. They are, without a doubt.
2013-03-17 12:12:27 PM
1 votes:

Madbassist1: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.

Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/


Said snippets:
The teenage girl testified Saturday that she could not recall what happened the night of the attack but remembered waking up naked in a strange house after drinking at a party. The girl said she recalled drinking, leaving the party holding hands with Mays and throwing up later. When she woke up, she said she discovered her phone, earrings, shoes, and underwear were missing, she testified.

"It was really scary," she said. "I honestly did not know what to think because I could not remember anything."

The girl said she believed she was assaulted when she later read text messages among friends and saw a photo of herself taken that night, along with a video that made fun of her and the alleged attack. She said she suspected she had been drugged because she couldn't explain being as intoxicated as defense witnesses have said she was.

...  The two girls testified they were angry at the accuser because she was drinking heavily at the party and rolling around on the floor. They said they tried unsuccessfully to get her to stop drinking.


Yeah, clearly your quotes around "victim" are warranted, and you're not a pro-rape sociopath.

/oh, wait... yes, you are.
2013-03-17 12:11:19 PM
1 votes:

yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?


Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.
2013-03-17 12:08:06 PM
1 votes:
That shiat hole town is so divided on this, I don't see how that girl and her family can keep living there. And when those creeps get out of "Juvie," it won't be hard to avoid each other.
2013-03-17 12:07:46 PM
1 votes:

jaytkay: Lot of Republicans in this thread, I see.

Too bad CPAC is over, these boys would have been a big hit on stage, they are apparently conservative heroes.


Only if they were white and there was a rape baby conceived.
2013-03-17 12:03:15 PM
1 votes:

captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.


She was totally asking for it, right?
2013-03-17 12:02:41 PM
1 votes:

bulldg4life: Quaker: So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.

I'm sure you have a great argument...but it is pointless in a thread where the victim was shown to be completely unconscious.


I haven't really been following this story, so in this context then you're right it's irrelevant. I was just responding to what seems to be an assertion that people aren't responsible for their drunken decisions.
2013-03-17 12:01:26 PM
1 votes:
So who provided the liquor to this young lady at the party anyway?
2013-03-17 12:00:52 PM
1 votes:

Big Ramifications: Could you have chosen a more pissweak light-on-facts news story if you tried? The comments section alludes to so much more. Very frustrating.


Came to say pretty much this.  The NYT has a nice reprise of the trial.
2013-03-17 11:53:54 AM
1 votes:

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.


Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/
2013-03-17 11:53:37 AM
1 votes:

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


You might want to examine those pictures of the defendants a LITTLE more closely there, Sparky.
2013-03-17 11:52:58 AM
1 votes:
jso2897:

Why would we draw the line a rape? Why hold anyone criminally responsible for what they do to drunken people? If somebody is too drunk to stop me beating their ass and taking their wallet - don't blame me!
Lame.



i1.ytimg.com

If you fail to conduct yourself properly around individuals who have the potential to do you harm then you have placed yourself at great risk.  Indeed alcohol and most other popular narcotics are looseners of social inhibitions.

Keep your head straight.

Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again...  But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?
2013-03-17 11:50:46 AM
1 votes:

Madbassist1: jso2897: Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.

What are you on about? I'm not following you.


I'm not surprised.
2013-03-17 11:49:57 AM
1 votes:
Trixie212:
You did notice that one of them is not white, right?

Silly Trixie... This is Ohio!  Obviously all perpetrators of rape are evil white males!

Law and Order told me so.
2013-03-17 11:49:30 AM
1 votes:

InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.


Why would we draw the line a rape? Why hold anyone criminally responsible for what they do to drunken people? If somebody is too drunk to stop me beating their ass and taking their wallet - don't blame me!
Lame.
2013-03-17 11:48:36 AM
1 votes:
oukewldave: Rape is never OK

Unless you play football in college. Then it's expected, the college and the courts will do everything they can to cover it up, to suppress witnesses, and to intimidate the accusers into leaving the state.
2013-03-17 11:48:06 AM
1 votes:

adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.


Again, the prosecutor did not file at such a level as to push them into "tried as an adult territory".  What the crime was is irrelevant at this stage, the judge can only sentence based on what the prosecutors got convictions on.  The prosecutors went after them as juveniles who committed the act at a party, not as adults who were sociopath scum.  They were sentenced as such.
2013-03-17 11:44:38 AM
1 votes:
Could you have chosen a more pissweak light-on-facts news story if you tried? The comments section alludes to so much more. Very frustrating.
2013-03-17 11:43:03 AM
1 votes:
"...have been sentenced to at least one year in juvenile jail."

Justice was not served. 1 year in juvie is a slap on the wrist. These monsters need to be in prison, gen pop. You can make sangria in a turlet. Of course it's shanked or be shanked.
2013-03-17 11:40:54 AM
1 votes:
Almost to the end of the page and nobody is crying about how they were already tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion?  Good.

/society SHOULD look down on rapist scum
2013-03-17 11:40:41 AM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual


Oxymoron, dumbass.
2013-03-17 11:39:22 AM
1 votes:

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


I associate Steubenville with fundamentalist Catholics and their university there.  Which would explain alot about the morality question and handling of a rape case involving a defendant in a position of power.
2013-03-17 11:39:04 AM
1 votes:

Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.


i28.photobucket.com
2013-03-17 11:38:07 AM
1 votes:
It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.
2013-03-17 11:36:25 AM
1 votes:
Oh goody. Another Fark rape apologist thread.
2013-03-17 11:33:54 AM
1 votes:

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


I hope they can look forward to a lifetime of "Sex offender" registration.
2013-03-17 11:33:30 AM
1 votes:
It's not real "justice" justice. The legal system has a way of shutting that thing down when they turn 21.
2013-03-17 11:32:13 AM
1 votes:

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


At least one year of juvenile prison, though both can be held till they're 21.  Trent Mays gets an additional 1 year for use of a minor in nudity material, which is to be served right after his rape sentence.

Such BS
2013-03-17 11:32:03 AM
1 votes:

ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.


The judge did.
2013-03-17 11:30:48 AM
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:


BTW didnt she start out underage, illegally?

/preemptive chris hansen.jpg
2013-03-17 11:30:05 AM
1 votes:
How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.
 
Displayed 275 of 275 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report