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(Yahoo)   Justice delivered: two members of the high school football team that is the pride of Steubenville were found guilty of raping a drunken 16-year-old girl   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 772
    More: News, Ohio, found guilty, football team  
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12539 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2013 at 11:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-17 08:16:02 PM  

Theaetetus: casey17:Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.

Doesn't help, for an obvious reason: the vast majority of men are not rapists. The ones who are are sociopaths like InitialCommentGuy, and telling them not to rape will not be successful, by definition. All we can do is publicly identify them and warn people so that they don't have an opportunity to rape, and simultaneously let them know that we're watching them and they won't find any sympathy or escape from prosecution with their "but she was drunk" or "but she was wearing a short skirt" or "but she's had sex before so she's a slut".


I'm going to mark this day on my calendar. I agree 100% with what you said.

What next? Dogs and cats sleeping together?
 
2013-03-17 08:18:46 PM  

Need_MindBleach: captainmaxthedestroyer: EnglishMan: ciberido: EnglishMan: ciberido: Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.

This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?

I do love people like you who get all angry over someone suggesting that someone might be even slightly responsible for what happens to them and yet stuff like "Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags." (in the second post in this very thread) just goes on unchallenged. I guess you can't tell people on tumblr about how much of a "Feminist" you are if you say something about that though.


And I do love people like you who enjoy blaming victims.  So hugs and kiss all around!

Please point out where I blamed the "victims". Also, stop resorting to attacking strawmen, people can disagree with you without hating women, being pro-rape or voting republican.

You don't have to state that you are blaming the victim.  If you even remotely suggest that drinking yourself into a coma is a poor way to protect yourself from people who may have ill intent, you are a rape apologist.

Trust me brah, I've been going at this all day.

I think people just have trouble grasping that there's a difference between "responsibility" and "guilt." If I walk down a dark ally at night, you could say I was partially responsible for being mugged, but nobody but an idiot would say I was partially guilty for the mugging. Now, it's true that some cretins literally will say that a girl who puts herself in a position like this was "asking for it."


And I think there have been only a few trolls in this thread supporting that idea.

Rape is wrong, there is no question about that.  And judging from the evidence, this case was determined to be rape and the defendants should be punished accordingly.  But I think there is an underlying issue at hand here that people have the "right" to poison themselves or make other poor decisions without consequence.  Should you get raped from a self induced black out at a house party?  No.  But you know what, you just might be at the party where there is a monster or two waiting for the opportunity.  That is the reality of the world.
 
2013-03-17 08:19:08 PM  
Taylor Mental:
verbal_jizm, tirob, BarkingUnicorn, MagSeven <<< the rest of you assholes need to keep your slutty little sisters off Ecstasy...and off the streets.

As long as you are on the streets, you had better believe I will do as you ask.
 
2013-03-17 08:38:26 PM  

Trixie212: ciberido: Trixie212:I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

I feel sorry for your sons and daughters.  You are a terrible parent.  They deserve better.

Fark you. I owe you no mother farking explanation for anything I say or for any way that I feel. Part of what has shaped my views is having a teenage son be accused of rape because his girlfriend didn't want to admit to her abusive, alcoholic father that she was pregnant. As long as my son helped them pay their bills, everything was good. If he balked at anything they wanted, they threatened him with filing rape charges.

Also none of your farking business but I was molested as a child and raped as an adult so go...to...hell.


You were probably asking for it.
 
2013-03-17 08:41:10 PM  
In this thread:

motores.com.py

/Hot, like a flame war
 
2013-03-17 08:44:01 PM  

FreetardoRivera: Trixie212: ciberido: Trixie212:I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

I feel sorry for your sons and daughters.  You are a terrible parent.  They deserve better.

Fark you. I owe you no mother farking explanation for anything I say or for any way that I feel. Part of what has shaped my views is having a teenage son be accused of rape because his girlfriend didn't want to admit to her abusive, alcoholic father that she was pregnant. As long as my son helped them pay their bills, everything was good. If he balked at anything they wanted, they threatened him with filing rape charges.

Also none of your farking business but I was molested as a child and raped as an adult so go...to...hell.

You were probably asking for it.


The molestation? No...I was 5. The rape? Maybe. I was where I shouldn't have been with people I shouldn't have been with.

But thanks.
 
2013-03-17 08:46:01 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: Rape is wrong, there is no question about that.  And judging from the evidence, this case was determined to be rape and the defendants should be punished accordingly.  But I think there is an underlying issue at hand here that people have the "right" to poison themselves or make other poor decisions without consequence.  Should you get raped from a self induced black out at a house party?  No.  But you know what, you just might be at the party where there is a monster or two waiting for the opportunity.  That is the reality of the world.


Every account of this case has the girl passing out BEFORE she even gets to the party. Her account. Her friends' accounts. Even the rapists' accounts ALL say she was unconscious before she was at a house party. She was unconscious in the car ride TO the first locale, and she was being raped before they even arrived there.

And then they proceeded to take pictures of her nude body, rape her some more, tweet about how "raped" she was, tweet about how "dead" she was (not "drunk"-- No tweet from the guys who did this or the witnesses who watched and/or participated EVER said "drunk"), and tweet and shoot video talking about raping her, and that she was now "dry" and "worthless" and "deserved to be peed on"... Which they also did to her.

I don't know how or why people keep falling back on the "she drank too much" position. There's plenty of evidence that she was drugged before the party began, even if the prosecutor and the sheriff decided to ignore all that after the sheriff's department "accidentally" deleted video, photo, and other evidence.

Follow the links above. Despite what the court and the town of Steubenville wants you to believe, this is not about the consequences of acting irresponsibly by getting fall-down drunk. This is about an ex-boyfriend and the rest of the football team dosing a girl and exacting revenge by raping, humiliating, and abusing her, and the adults involved covering it up to protect their football program and-- some say-- their own illegal activities.
 
2013-03-17 08:51:13 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


Pretty much this.
 
2013-03-17 08:52:50 PM  

ZeroCorpse: captainmaxthedestroyer: Rape is wrong, there is no question about that.  And judging from the evidence, this case was determined to be rape and the defendants should be punished accordingly.  But I think there is an underlying issue at hand here that people have the "right" to poison themselves or make other poor decisions without consequence.  Should you get raped from a self induced black out at a house party?  No.  But you know what, you just might be at the party where there is a monster or two waiting for the opportunity.  That is the reality of the world.

Every account of this case has the girl passing out BEFORE she even gets to the party. Her account. Her friends' accounts. Even the rapists' accounts ALL say she was unconscious before she was at a house party. She was unconscious in the car ride TO the first locale, and she was being raped before they even arrived there.

And then they proceeded to take pictures of her nude body, rape her some more, tweet about how "raped" she was, tweet about how "dead" she was (not "drunk"-- No tweet from the guys who did this or the witnesses who watched and/or participated EVER said "drunk"), and tweet and shoot video talking about raping her, and that she was now "dry" and "worthless" and "deserved to be peed on"... Which they also did to her.

I don't know how or why people keep falling back on the "she drank too much" position. There's plenty of evidence that she was drugged before the party began, even if the prosecutor and the sheriff decided to ignore all that after the sheriff's department "accidentally" deleted video, photo, and other evidence.

Follow the links above. Despite what the court and the town of Steubenville wants you to believe, this is not about the consequences of acting irresponsibly by getting fall-down drunk. This is about an ex-boyfriend and the rest of the football team dosing a girl and exacting revenge by raping, humiliating, and abusing her, and the adults involved covering it up to protec ...


Fair enough.
 
2013-03-17 09:00:03 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Pretty much this.


It's called "social media" and in this case, it allowed the perpetrators of the crime to post video, text, and photographic evidence of the crime they were committing, as well as confessions of said crimes.

Granted, much of it was "accidentally deleted", but if you check out the screen caps above, and watch the video linked above, you'll see that there was no question of these guys' guilt. The only questions are "Why did they get off so easy?" and "Why aren't the adults who tried to cover this up rotting in prison, too?"
 
2013-03-17 09:01:39 PM  
I also thought it wasn't "rape rape" if they can't say no or didn't really mean no.
 
2013-03-17 09:12:45 PM  
ZeroCorpse:

The only questions are "Why did they get off so easy?" and "Why aren't the adults who tried to cover this up rotting in prison, too?"


1.  My guess is that it was mainly because the offenders were under 18 and this was their first offense.

2.  We don't know that they won't be.  There does seem to be some evidence that one or more adults were accessories after the fact.  Whether there is enough evidence for an indictment is another matter.
 
2013-03-17 09:21:21 PM  

ZeroCorpse: People don't just lose consciousness after one drink.

People don't become completely limp, like a dead person, after one drink.

People don't forget everything after one drink.

It's pretty clear she was drugged.

Some reports say they found trace amounts of some "date rape drug" in her blood, but it was too long after the night in question (she had no memory of what happened, and then the police didn't want to pursue this matter) and the levels were not enough to stand up in court. There were also significant forces in that town covering things up.

What they did have was the evidence that she was unconscious before she even got to the first destination, and that she was sexually assaulted multiple times AFTER she was unconscious.

EVEN IF SHE WASN'T DRUGGED-- and there are witness accounts that she was-- it was undoubtedly wrong to rape her multiple times, drag her from place to place to be raped by several people, and then piss on her as she lay unconscious. It was undoubtedly wrong to tweet about her being "a dead girl" and "so raped" and "deserving to be peed on". It was undoubtedly wrong to dump her in her yard and leave her there after the deeds were done.

BUT... EVEN IF SHE WERE DRUNK, none of the actions of these guys was defensible.




What? You've been posting some very wrong information here.

The girl testified that she remembered drinking at the first big party of the night and then holding Mays' hand as she left with him, Richmond and others.

The victim completely contradicts every post you've made in this thread.

She drank at least four shots of vodka, two beers and some of a slushy mixed with vodka, a 16-year-old witness said.

She was drunk. NOT drugged.

I agree with the rest of your post though. And the clowns trying to blame the victim can fark themselves.

I really hope that the adults that tried to sweep this under the rug get charged as well. Farkin pathetic.
 
2013-03-17 09:22:51 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Every account of this case has the girl passing out BEFORE she even gets to the party. Her account. Her friends' accounts. Even the rapists' accounts ALL say she was unconscious before she was at a house party. She was unconscious in the car ride TO the first locale, and she was being raped before they even arrived there.


This is not true. You seem to have a very strong opinion about the case, but you do not have the facts right.
 
2013-03-17 09:26:29 PM  
The media response has been "interesting" in the Chinese curse sense.

CNN's Candy Crowley: "These poor boys' lives are ruined." Entirely possible, but considering that they raped a girl, and were tried for it, and convicted in a court of law, yeah, it's a tragedy that should have you in tears. Just not for the boys, but the girl.

Our judge: "The problem is social media"--because the medium is the problem, not the idiots who Tweet and Facebook their crimes?

Michael Crooke: At least his commentary is consistent with his usual asshattery. And at least expected. All women deserve their rape, apparently in his eyes. Even the Swiss who are visiting a country, should at least understand men, especially brown men, just rape women sometimes. Apparently, if a woman isn't a burhka, and only meeting young men in approved forums like with the company of some male relatives, then a girl is asking for it. HIS level of asshattery is at least on record, countless times.

Twitter is chock full of asshats and idiots, so this isn't a surprise exactly. How DARE someone come forward with their rape, when there's a football team involved? This is the breakdown of the hate on for this girl. It's HER fault for getting raped, and dooming these poor, innocent lads who were so good and virtuous that they couldn't keep it in their pants, and couldn't keep from talking about it before and after the deed. Then again, Twitter is full of folks who might get culled if Hubie were granted Godlike powers to slap down stupid. I am not a good person though, so IF there is a Supreme Cosmic Power, Godhead, or Akashic Well willing to channel some divine power, maybe I'm not the best candidate...

Lee Stranahan of Brietbart is at least consistent with the vileness, and continue to perpetuate the idea that the town somehow suffered because the perpetrators got their day in court, as opposed to 16 year old who was raped, and folks wanted to cover it up?

This entire incident just makes me seethe, not just as a father, but as a man, who is tired of asshats who GET their convictions, that they woefully deserve, and because they were "popular" folks want to give them a pass. We need to get off this idiocy that "popular" means infallible. It leads to bad places, and as a country, we should be better than this. Mind you, I understand that some of the folks in this thread are just trolling for the attention, and in all honesty, those folks are worse than the idiots who think that these boys were just "boys being boys" because to trivialize rape as a passing fancy to entertain yourselves is to disconnect with anything remotely human. It's not about rape apology, it is simply that you lack the humanity to see what was done, and figure it's worth a few chuckles, and all in all, this thread is full of folks who are just reprehensible humans. And I'm not good people, so that's saying something...
 
2013-03-17 09:32:57 PM  

tirob: Taylor Mental:
verbal_jizm, tirob, BarkingUnicorn, MagSeven <<< the rest of you assholes need to keep your slutty little sisters off Ecstasy...and off the streets.

As long as you are on the streets, you had better believe I will do as you ask.


Oh, I had to give up the streets years ago when one of the urchins got loose and did a job on my leg with a hatchet I stupidly left lying around. Now we just winch them out of the hole at feeding/lotion time. Much more efficient.

Your little sister is probably safe...unless she leaves the abandoned puppy store after midnight.
 
2013-03-17 09:37:35 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again... But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?


She repeated the "behavior" of being unconscious?
 
2013-03-17 09:38:09 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

I associate Steubenville with fundamentalist Catholics and their university there.  Which would explain alot about the morality question and handling of a rape case involving a defendant in a position of power.


Because of Franciscan University? Most of those students aren't from the area.  Not a fan of Catholics either but they have nothing to do with this.
 
2013-03-17 09:41:30 PM  

ZeroCorpse: captainmaxthedestroyer: Rape is wrong, there is no question about that.  And judging from the evidence, this case was determined to be rape and the defendants should be punished accordingly.  But I think there is an underlying issue at hand here that people have the "right" to poison themselves or make other poor decisions without consequence.  Should you get raped from a self induced black out at a house party?  No.  But you know what, you just might be at the party where there is a monster or two waiting for the opportunity.  That is the reality of the world.

Every account of this case has the girl passing out BEFORE she even gets to the party. Her account. Her friends' accounts. Even the rapists' accounts ALL say she was unconscious before she was at a house party. She was unconscious in the car ride TO the first locale, and she was being raped before they even arrived there.

And then they proceeded to take pictures of her nude body, rape her some more, tweet about how "raped" she was, tweet about how "dead" she was (not "drunk"-- No tweet from the guys who did this or the witnesses who watched and/or participated EVER said "drunk"), and tweet and shoot video talking about raping her, and that she was now "dry" and "worthless" and "deserved to be peed on"... Which they also did to her.

I don't know how or why people keep falling back on the "she drank too much" position. There's plenty of evidence that she was drugged before the party began, even if the prosecutor and the sheriff decided to ignore all that after the sheriff's department "accidentally" deleted video, photo, and other evidence.

Follow the links above. Despite what the court and the town of Steubenville wants you to believe, this is not about the consequences of acting irresponsibly by getting fall-down drunk. This is about an ex-boyfriend and the rest of the football team dosing a girl and exacting revenge by raping, humiliating, and abusing her, and the adults involved covering it up to protec ...


Not being a sports guy, I just don't get football-as-religion.

Reminds me of that whole Sandusky mess...people were defending THAT scumbag, too.
Some of them on this site.

Maybe they have too much self-identification with the sports heroes?  can't bear to think their idol has feet of clay?
 
2013-03-17 09:42:58 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: ZeroCorpse: Every account of this case has the girl passing out BEFORE she even gets to the party. Her account. Her friends' accounts. Even the rapists' accounts ALL say she was unconscious before she was at a house party. She was unconscious in the car ride TO the first locale, and she was being raped before they even arrived there.

This is not true. You seem to have a very strong opinion about the case, but you do not have the facts right.


Yep. The victim herself contradicts his assertions. So do 10 other witnesses for the prosecution.
 
2013-03-17 09:46:02 PM  

CWeinerWV: Benevolent Misanthrope: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

I associate Steubenville with fundamentalist Catholics and their university there.  Which would explain alot about the morality question and handling of a rape case involving a defendant in a position of power.

Because of Franciscan University? Most of those students aren't from the area.  Not a fan of Catholics either but they have nothing to do with this.


Huh.  I had always assumed a school like that couldn't exist outside of a community with similar values.
 
2013-03-17 09:48:12 PM  

Madbassist1: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.

Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/


The 1950's called...
 
2013-03-17 09:49:10 PM  

Madbassist1: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.

Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/


Either they've switched that article on you, or you have serious reading comprehension issues.
 
2013-03-17 09:50:41 PM  

adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.


Terrifyingly enough, it isn't.

A sociopath is incapable of feeling remorse or empathy for anyone.

A normal person is capable of feeling remorse and empathy for in-group members, but not out-group members.

Most people are normal, which means that they feel remorse and empathy when something bad happens to someone they care about, but not when something happens to someone they've been trained to see as "prey".

Examples: how most people see terrorists, drug dealers, pedophiles, etc.; how some people see anyone poor and helpless.

All you have to do is convince yourself that someone is your rightful prey, and all your empathy goes out the window. Humanity's been that way for hundreds of thousands of years, the only thing unique about the past few decades is that post-WW2 sociological research has got better at getting us to recognize when we're excluding someone from our sphere of empathy, and check that shiat before we start the internment camps and rape hostels. Even then, this is still terrifyingly normal behavior.

The problem isn't with these two kids' souls, at least not originally; the problem is with a culture that tells them that they're totally okay and even respectable for doing this, until it suddenly does a 180 and tells them that they were horrible for doing it.
 
2013-03-17 09:54:36 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: CWeinerWV: Benevolent Misanthrope: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

I associate Steubenville with fundamentalist Catholics and their university there.  Which would explain alot about the morality question and handling of a rape case involving a defendant in a position of power.

Because of Franciscan University? Most of those students aren't from the area.  Not a fan of Catholics either but they have nothing to do with this.

Huh.  I had always assumed a school like that couldn't exist outside of a community with similar values.


Yeah we kinda forget it's there.  People come from all over to go there, not so much the locals.  It's expensive, the area is poor, and most go to local small colleges or at best OSU or WVU. And I don't think this area is super Catholic.  Backwards yes, but more in the redneck way and less of the religious way.
 
2013-03-17 09:55:14 PM  
I know this is Fark and all, but... Jesus. There are some seriously effed up people in this thread.
 
2013-03-17 09:58:16 PM  

raptusregaliter: I know this is Fark and all, but... Jesus. There are some seriously effed up people in this thread.


Yeah I think some of the locals have infiltrated this thread.

Granted I'm a local too but I've been Farkin' for years.  Also don't condone rape, so there's that too.
 
2013-03-17 10:00:23 PM  

raptusregaliter: I know this is Fark and all, but... Jesus. There are some seriously effed up people in this thread.


In the middle ages, it was considered good entertainment to light a basket of cats on fire in the town square, if they didn't have a criminal or heretic to torture to death.

It actually takes active effort and self-introspection to not be a seriously effed up person. It's how we're wired.
 
2013-03-17 10:02:18 PM  

raptusregaliter: I know this is Fark and all, but... Jesus. There are some seriously effed up people in this thread.


Come for the enticing yet innocent frat boy humor, stay for the depraved reality of baby boomers.
 
2013-03-17 10:39:10 PM  
Lady Indica: She's the vegetarian in the room clucking her tongue about the horrors of eating meat when someone gets cancer. Sure, maybe it's more likely for a meat eater to get certain types of cancer, but it's not apropos to the immediate issue, and it's downright shiatty. And when called out on it, saying 'Well I would say this even about someone I love' is even shiattier. And then someone raising the strawman that it's like a three pack a day smoker...same thing right?!

Trix, tell you what I do. I've had opinions I felt strongly about...and looked at who was agreeing with me and who wasn't. When people I have no respect for in any manner are the ones I share an opinion with...and people I respect are telling me my head is up my ass...I keep looking at the issue. I don't form my opinion based on who's with me and who's not...but the odds of me being the lone voice of wisdom in the wilderness is pretty low.



If it matters to anybody, I'm willing to believe that Trixie212's posts come more from ignorance and/or difficulty expressing what she really means than from the kind of deep-seated misogyny or sense of male entitlement than a lot of the posters in this thread have displayed.
 
2013-03-17 10:46:27 PM  

firefly212: tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.

People like you are why I think people should choose judges over juries. Seriously "enjoy getting raped?"... you think raping 16 year olds is ok, but only the ones who did bad things? Torture, violence, and rape are why we get such a high recidivism rate... morons like you get giddy with the thought of prison being a hellscape that grooms better criminals, then wonder why the prisoners are so vindictive towards society at large when they get out... more often than hot though, asshats like you don't wonder that, you just hyper-simplify complex problems with statements like "if you didn't wanna get raped and stabbed, you shouldn't have broken the law" without ever thinking just how much of a Saudi Arabian tool that makes you sound like.

The reality is you sick farks support Sharia law and you don't even know it.


Lex talionis ... An eye for an eye
 
2013-03-17 10:49:16 PM  

jim32rr: firefly212: tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.

People like you are why I think people should choose judges over juries. Seriously "enjoy getting raped?"... you think raping 16 year olds is ok, but only the ones who did bad things? Torture, violence, and rape are why we get such a high recidivism rate... morons like you get giddy with the thought of prison being a hellscape that grooms better criminals, then wonder why the prisoners are so vindictive towards society at large when they get out... more often than hot though, asshats like you don't wonder that, you just hyper-simplify complex problems with statements like "if you didn't wanna get raped and stabbed, you shouldn't have broken the law" without ever thinking just how much of a Saudi Arabian tool that makes you sound like.

The reality is you sick farks support Sharia law and you don't even know it.

Lex talionis ... An eye for an eye


We like it when people suffer, but only if we can believe that they're people we don't like.
 
2013-03-17 10:55:51 PM  

raptusregaliter: I know this is Fark and all, but... Jesus. There are some seriously effed up people in this thread.


Wow, this.

Between the "those poor boys" crowd and the "The girl drinking until you she blacked out didn't do anything to protect herself" crowd, it's a right freak show in here.  It seems pretty obvious that the two guys assaulted a drunk girl.  They're rapists and should go to jail.

The girl apparently drank herself until she blacked out, and while she is the victim, she put herself in a position where it was easy to be victimized... much like someone walking through a high-crime part of town with $100 bills taped to them, yelling that they're unarmed.  She's still the victim and it isn't her fault, but she put herself in a bad situation.
 
2013-03-17 11:07:10 PM  
Fact: She put herself in a bad situation.
Fact: This isn't her fault.
Conclusion: Girl doesn't deserve to be pilloried.

Fact: Her rapists were surrounded by a system that should have taught them to know better, but didn't.
Fact: This isn't entirely their fault, either.
Fact: It doesn't matter that it isn't entirely their fault, because at this point they're probably too morally damaged by their upbringing to be entirely safe members of their society.
Conclusion: Boys deserve some jail time, and need to be watched carefully, but don't deserve to have their lives destroyed.

Fact: An entire system of adults and authority figures around these two boys tacitly encouraged their behaviors, then sought to cover up the entire situation and prioritize their comfort over the comfort or even bare justice of their victim.
Fact: This is utterly, utterly farked up.
Conclusions. Heads had better farking roll.
 
2013-03-17 11:11:36 PM  

vygramul: BSABSVR: It's not Fark, it's Rapeenthusiast.com

Unfortunately. Can we combine that with Stormfront? Maybe Rapefront.com?



I'm honestly surprised that www.Rapefront.com doesn't already exist.
 
2013-03-17 11:20:36 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: So, staying in control of yourself doesn't help to prevent rape. Not acting vulnerable doesn't. Not sending out sexually enticing signals doesn't. You've listed a whole bunch of things that don't help to prevent rape.

What are these "tricks" for women of which you now speak?

Uhm. We've been discussing these tips/suggestions for awhile now.
Ffs. If you're not going to try then why should I?

I've read this thread from top to bottom, and all I see are tricks for blaming men alone for rape.  You rattle off things that won't work very readily, but go "uhm" when asked for a few that work.

You didn't answer my question:  what would you think if you learned that this girl is still getting drunk with football  players every weekend?


Sadly, that's a very "normal" response. to rape. Some victims become sexually provocative or react by having increased sexual relations. Some victims never want to have sex again. Some fall in the middle and can have sex with someone they trust. It really varies. I was a rape counselor in college and I've seen post-rape sexual behavior  fall throughout that entire spectrum.

It's possible that she has so little self-esteem that she's willing to give herself to anyone who expresses interest. Until she gets professional help, this type of behavior could continue.

Of course, she might have fallen at the other end of the spectrum. But seriously, does it matter? Because she's not locking herself up in her room after her rape, it's because she was somehow responsible? Seriously?
 
2013-03-17 11:26:24 PM  
After Fark finally fades and closes shop, you need only look to this thread for the reason.  This place has turned into a pretty farked up "community."
 
2013-03-17 11:34:55 PM  

Kimothy: Sadly, that's a very "normal" response. to rape. Some victims become sexually provocative or react by having increased sexual relations. Some victims never want to have sex again. Some fall in the middle and can have sex with someone they trust. It really varies. I was a rape counselor in college and I've seen post-rape sexual behavior fall throughout that entire spectrum.


I dated a girl who had been rapped when she was 12, though I did not know about her situation until well after we stopped dating.  In the middle of sex (not our first time), she suddenly screamed, "get the fark away from me" and started pushing me away in a panic.  Something I had done, probably something perfectly innocent like my breath on her ear, had set off her PTSD.  Perhaps if I had known about her past I might have been more understand, but out of ignorance I broke up with her.
 
2013-03-17 11:35:32 PM  
This place is always screwed up, hence the Welcome to Fark thing, but this...this is something special.  I mean people can be dicks here but at least most can make an intelligent, articulate argument.  These are simply people who have yet to evolve.  Honestly I think this is a different crowd than usual.  I can only hope.  Or else I've lost all faith in humanity.
 
2013-03-17 11:35:45 PM  

Kimothy: Because she's not locking herself up in her room after her rape, it's because she was somehow responsible? Seriously?


Yes, seriously. Otherwise people have to confront the fact that this could happen to 'normal' people, and that is farking TERRIFYING.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:19 PM  

CWeinerWV: This place is always screwed up, hence the Welcome to Fark thing, but this...this is something special.  I mean people can be dicks here but at least most can make an intelligent, articulate argument.  These are simply people who have yet to evolve.  Honestly I think this is a different crowd than usual.  I can only hope.  Or else I've lost all faith in humanity.


The number of rapist apologists in this thread suggests we've been invaded by /b/.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:12 PM  
They won't think rape is such a great idea once they leave juvie with an asshole four times bigger than when they went in. The bright side is that their gag reflux will be fantasti. Piece of trash bastards.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:59 PM  

ialdabaoth: Kimothy: Because she's not locking herself up in her room after her rape, it's because she was somehow responsible? Seriously?

Yes, seriously. Otherwise people have to confront the fact that this could happen to 'normal' people, and that is farking TERRIFYING.


Well said.
 
2013-03-17 11:44:29 PM  

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.



Dont forget blaming her for being born female.  And daring to leave the house without a male family member.
 
2013-03-17 11:56:59 PM  

ParagonComplex: They won't think rape is such a great idea once they leave juvie with an asshole four times bigger than when they went in. The bright side is that their gag reflux will be fantasti. Piece of trash bastards.


These are 16 year old boys who have been told all their life that they can get away with whatever they want as long as they're strong enough to win.

They may be piece of trash bastards, but I don't think your venom is appropriately or effectively projected if you're pointing it at them.

Also, wishing for 16 and 17 year olds to get prison-raped seems sketchy. No one deserves to be raped. People who are morally damaged deserve to be repaired, or humanely contained if they cannot be repaired. But wishing traumatic violence and powerlessness on a sapient being does not seem to be the mark of a good person.
 
2013-03-18 12:07:43 AM  

vygramul: There's something about rapist psychology of which people should be aware: rapists think EVERYONE is a rapist like they are. They think YOU'RE a rapist. Either you've not been caught, or you're too chickenshiat beta to actually take what is yours to take.

So whenever you make any kind of excuse, or try to mitigate the rapeists' actions, their ears perk up and they say, "Ah! A fellow rapist! Good to see a few of us alphas still around!"

That's the way rapists think.


I think that's largely a combination of two things, the "evil cannot comprehend good" trope and the "false-consensus bias."

You see some of the same thing when people talk about "white knighting," particularly in threads about feminism where the claim is made (implicitly and often explicitly as well) that male feminists are only PRETENDing to be feminists (to get women to have sex with them or some other such presumed ulterior motive).

I may be confusing cause and effect here, but it also makes me leery of cynical people.  I have the suspicion (however untrue or illogical it may be) that deeply cynical people are projecting their own callous nature.  Or to put it another way, I don't trust people who are very untrusting.  Perhaps that's ironic or hypocritical; I'm not sure.
 
2013-03-18 12:08:57 AM  

ciberido: vygramul: BSABSVR: It's not Fark, it's Rapeenthusiast.com

Unfortunately. Can we combine that with Stormfront? Maybe Rapefront.com?


I'm honestly surprised that www.Rapefront.com doesn't already exist.


Considering some the rhetoric lately, coming from the Religious Right, I'm surprised that we haven't seen groups forcing sack cloth on girls and women on campuses, and kidnapping women to become good wives to strong Christian men "for their own good"...

Then again, 2012 came, and Nehimiah Scudder didn't appear on the ballot, so I guess that's a step in the right direction...
 
2013-03-18 12:13:16 AM  

ciberido: vygramul: There's something about rapist psychology of which people should be aware: rapists think EVERYONE is a rapist like they are. They think YOU'RE a rapist. Either you've not been caught, or you're too chickenshiat beta to actually take what is yours to take.

So whenever you make any kind of excuse, or try to mitigate the rapeists' actions, their ears perk up and they say, "Ah! A fellow rapist! Good to see a few of us alphas still around!"

That's the way rapists think.

I think that's largely a combination of two things, the "evil cannot comprehend good" trope and the "false-consensus bias."

You see some of the same thing when people talk about "white knighting," particularly in threads about feminism where the claim is made (implicitly and often explicitly as well) that male feminists are only PRETENDing to be feminists (to get women to have sex with them or some other such presumed ulterior motive).

I may be confusing cause and effect here, but it also makes me leery of cynical people.  I have the suspicion (however untrue or illogical it may be) that deeply cynical people are projecting their own callous nature.  Or to put it another way, I don't trust people who are very untrusting.  Perhaps that's ironic or hypocritical; I'm not sure.


It depends on the kind of cynicism. I'm deeply cynical because I'm incredibly bitter about my idealism being constantly thwarted. It doesn't stop me from trying to live up to my ideals anyways, but damn does it make me bitter and cynical and biatchy.
 
2013-03-18 12:19:15 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: ciberido: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Everyone knows they're rapists except people who are sick, twisted farks or members of their family.  Which are you?

Seriously, if you can't figure our what rape is, you would be well-served to never, ever have sex with anybody.

It's not a question of knowing what rape is.  It's a question of knowing when it occurs.



It you talk about "kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy" as if such a thing were a possible explanation of what happened in this case, then you don't know what rape is.
 
2013-03-18 12:32:02 AM  

Trixie212: ciberido: Trixie212:I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

I feel sorry for your sons and daughters.  You are a terrible parent.  They deserve better.

Fark you. I owe you no mother farking explanation for anything I say or for any way that I feel.



You do if you want anyone to take you seriously.
 
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