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(Yahoo)   Justice delivered: two members of the high school football team that is the pride of Steubenville were found guilty of raping a drunken 16-year-old girl   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 772
    More: News, Ohio, found guilty, football team  
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12535 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2013 at 11:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-17 06:49:34 PM

DrewCurtisJr: demonfaerie: It doesn't matter how much you prove this, society likes to put blame on the victim.

Don't confuse some people, with "society" overall.


In our society, then yes you are correct, however there are a lot of societies that feel other wise. I am going with a generalization of the world in general. I should of probably clarified that more.

Trixie212: I know others are saying she was drugged which would do more to make me reverse some of my feelings than anything else because she absolutely would have had no control over that. But, it's been my understanding that that has not been proven or has it? I'm open to listen.


I hear conflicting reports, so I can't 100% she was drugged or not. Some news sites say she was, and others don't mention it. I don't think it matters imo anyways, she was drinking and that can be considered a drug. She probably drank on her own free will or peered pressured at the very worse. Doesn't mean she should have some blame. She shouldn't have any at all imo.
 
2013-03-17 06:50:55 PM

Trixie212: I do try to hear other points of view and in all truth, I don't feel she deserved to be raped and I'm pretty sure I've stated that, just maybe not vehemently enough.

I know others are saying she was drugged which would do more to make me reverse some of my feelings than anything else because she absolutely would have had no control over that. But, it's been my understanding that that has not been proven or has it? I'm open to listen.


The point I think people (and me!) have been trying to impress upon you is that it does not matter. It does not make her any more or less of a victim. She is not more or less raped by whether she was drugged unconscious or unconscious due to intoxication.
 
2013-03-17 06:51:48 PM

ciberido: Trixie212:I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

I feel sorry for your sons and daughters.  You are a terrible parent.  They deserve better.


Fark you. I owe you no mother farking explanation for anything I say or for any way that I feel. Part of what has shaped my views is having a teenage son be accused of rape because his girlfriend didn't want to admit to her abusive, alcoholic father that she was pregnant. As long as my son helped them pay their bills, everything was good. If he balked at anything they wanted, they threatened him with filing rape charges.

Also none of your farking business but I was molested as a child and raped as an adult so go...to...hell.
 
2013-03-17 06:52:18 PM

Silly Jesus: why does she need years of therapy for something she doesn't remember?  Why don't people who are mugged, rather than raped, need years of therapy?


So you mean to tell me that you would be as unaffected by waking up finding out that some sick bastard had jammed his filthy dick up your ass while you were unconscious as you would be if your wallet was stolen?
 
2013-03-17 06:52:22 PM

Bontesla: What was her BAC?


Nobody knows, there wasn't even a complaint filed until after the pictures surfaced.
 
2013-03-17 06:52:23 PM

Silly Jesus: demonfaerie: Silly Jesus: demonfaerie: Popcorn Johnny: vygramul: It shouldn't take this level of detail.

It shouldn't? I guess in your world, we should believe a woman whenever she claims she was raped, right? After all, there's never been a case of a woman making up fake rape allegations, right?

Just because there have been some cases of women claiming they were raped, but they really weren't doesn't negate that there are 100 times more women in the world that actually are raped. And yes we should somewhat believe when a woman says she was raped, but at the same time there has to be an investigation of it to prove she is right. However, with people like you it is harder for women to bring up these allegations, because of your tone of putting blame on the victim. Just, because someone does a stupid behavior doesn't mean they should get hurt or raped for it. It can take years for a woman to get over being abused or raped, so putting this partial blame on the victim just makes it worse. It doesn't help or solve anything.

Folks such as yourself see someone saying "it probably wasn't a good idea for her to get blackout drunk etc." and somehow turn that in to "I think it was excellent that she was raped."  I've never understood that.

If I went out for a jog through some drug infested slums in Harlem at night and got mugged it wouldn't really "be my fault", but then again, it kinda would.  See how that works?  Certain decisions that humans make have some somewhat predictable consequences.  The people who mugged me shouldn't be excused from their actions, but I was certainly a dumbass for putting myself into that position.

No it wouldn't be your fault. That is a public area you have every right to be in, and if someone assaults you it is not your fault. shiat can happen everywhere, it even it places that are not "dangerous". Ok in your logic you put yourself as a dumbass, and then yes the girl did a dumbass thing, but that doesn't mean she should have partial blame to ...


She will most likely need therapy, because of the aftermath of what happened. Her story is all over the internet, people are judging her, like you are right now. How does that make a teenage girl feel? Probably like shiat. Not to mention she might be in her head pieces shiat together, and that is making it worse. Also people are piecing the story together for her with the court case, and some people it sounds like are covering it up in the process. That is kind of farked up to go through no matter what age, but her being a teenager makes it worse, because of how young they are.
 
2013-03-17 06:52:42 PM

Trixie212: I know others are saying she was drugged which would do more to make me reverse some of my feelings than anything else because she absolutely would have had no control over that. But, it's been my understanding that that has not been proven or has it? I'm open to listen.


It was proven false.

A hospital test on the victim for drugging came back negative, testimony revealed.

/won't matter anyhow, anything other than "Yes, DAMN IT, yes" means "no"
 
2013-03-17 06:53:45 PM

ZeroCorpse: Silly Jesus: If I went out for a jog in the barrios of Rio and got mugged would it be cruel and incorrect to tell me that maybe I shouldn't have done that and to maybe not do it again?

Sure. But if you were coerced into following someone else, drugged without your knowledge, and woke up mugged in the barrios of Rio, that would be a different situation.

She didn't get stupid-drunk or act irresponsibly. She was coerced into going to a party by a group of her ex-boyfriend's friends, and then drugged in the car on the way to the first locale. While unconscious she was raped MULTIPLE times by MULTIPLE guys, dragged from party to party to be raped again and again, photographed and recorded being sexually assaulted, carried down to a basement where a bunch of guys took turns raping her some more while she was still unconscious, carried out to a yard and pissed on, and then left there.

The police, coaches, prosecutor, and sheriff intentionally dragged ass and tried to cover this up. The guys tweeted about raping her. They made videos talking about raping her. They wrote tweets referring to raping her. They actually called themselves "the rape crew" in a non-ironic way.

So perhaps there's a bit of difference between you wandering in a dangerous neighborhood and a teenage girl being drugged, gang raped multiple times, peed on, and humiliated by people she trusted.


I didn't know it was established that she was drugged.

Anyway, my main point was directed at those who go batshiat if someone even suggests that she shares even 1% of the responsibility for the situation that she ended up in with the guys having the other 99%.  She had many opportunities to make more intelligent decisions, and she neglected to do so.
 
2013-03-17 06:55:46 PM

Dragonflew: ZeroCorpse: She did NOT just "get drunk at a party" -- She was drugged before the party even began.

She lost consciousness before she even got to the first destination.

She was completely unable to resist. She wasn't just drunk. She was drugged.

Been on your side so far, but I'm afraid I'll need to see a citation for this. In order for the rational argument to prevail, it should continue to be backed by facts.


There's no chemical evidence of drugs - nor is there chemical evidence that she was drunk. By the time she realized that she was potentially raped - too many days had passed.

However - we can reasonably assume that she was under the influence because eye witnesses say so. Evidence that she was drugged is less established and conclusive. She shows symptoms (memory loss among others) that is consistent with being drugged. Initial reports were that a few other girls also awoke the next morning to find themselves partially disrobed with no memory. One such report came in the form of an anonymous online post in which the girl was saying she doesn't remember what happened. She doesn't like the taste of beer and so she didn't even finish the only beer she drank that night and that she only had beer. She didn't say that she was raped - she asked if others saw anyone else being victimized?

Needless the say the responses weren't helpful. She never came forward to the police and gave her statement so it's entirely possible that it was a troll. But it's also possible that the self-proclaimed "Rape Squad" actually raped others.
 
2013-03-17 06:57:19 PM
People don't just lose consciousness after one drink.

People don't become completely limp, like a dead person, after one drink.

People don't forget everything after one drink.

It's pretty clear she was drugged.

Some reports say they found trace amounts of some "date rape drug" in her blood, but it was too long after the night in question (she had no memory of what happened, and then the police didn't want to pursue this matter) and the levels were not enough to stand up in court. There were also significant forces in that town covering things up.

What they did have was the evidence that she was unconscious before she even got to the first destination, and that she was sexually assaulted multiple times AFTER she was unconscious.

EVEN IF SHE WASN'T DRUGGED-- and there are witness accounts that she was-- it was undoubtedly wrong to rape her multiple times, drag her from place to place to be raped by several people, and then piss on her as she lay unconscious. It was undoubtedly wrong to tweet about her being "a dead girl" and "so raped" and "deserving to be peed on". It was undoubtedly wrong to dump her in her yard and leave her there after the deeds were done.

BUT... EVEN IF SHE WERE DRUNK, none of the actions of these guys was defensible.
 
2013-03-17 06:57:34 PM

Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: So, staying in control of yourself doesn't help to prevent rape. Not acting vulnerable doesn't. Not sending out sexually enticing signals doesn't. You've listed a whole bunch of things that don't help to prevent rape.

What are these "tricks" for women of which you now speak?

Uhm. We've been discussing these tips/suggestions for awhile now.
Ffs. If you're not going to try then why should I?

I've read this thread from top to bottom, and all I see are tricks for blaming men alone for rape.  You rattle off things that won't work very readily, but go "uhm" when asked for a few that work.

You didn't answer my question:  what would you think if you learned that this girl is still getting drunk with football  players every weekend?

It really wouldn't change my attitude in the slightest.

Rape isn't the victim's fault. It's the rapist's fault.

What would you think if I told you that she consumed a single beer and was never technically drunk - but drugged? Obviously in this case you'd have to find another way in which the victim was responsible for her own rape. Perhaps she placed herself among friends she couldn't trust and ought to have known better. Perhaps she shouldn't have been partying or wearing something high school football players find particularly rape-worthy. You spend a lot of time inventing reasons why it's okay to blame her.

The fact is - women and men get raped because there are rapists. It doesn't matter what they're wearing or not wearing. It doesn't matter what they're drinking and not drinking. Rapists cause rape.

You keep saying that it's empowering for women to learn that had they not have imbibed alcohol - they have never have been raped. As an actual woman - I can guarantee that it's absurd. Women (and men) can follow all of your rules and still become victims of rape. Why? Because victims aren't to blame for rape. Rapists are.


Sigh.  I'm going to stop now before I say something as unfair, untrue, and harmful to women as what you've been saying to me.
 
2013-03-17 06:57:35 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone


Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.



You're mocking him, of course, but the ironic thing is, you really SHOULD take such criticism from Theaetetus seriously.  It's a sad example of the  Dunning-Kruger effect: whatever it is that makes you pro-rape also makes you incapable of perceiving yourself as pro-rape or of really understanding his point.

It's a bit like watching a monkey fling poo at a painting.
 
2013-03-17 06:57:51 PM
Rape really highlights the human garbage on Fark. It's like spring cleaning for my ignore list. Time to toss a bunch of the human offal on the pile.
 
2013-03-17 06:58:07 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.


You probably overestimated somewhat but hey, who's counting?

Thankfully if she chose to go out with you, she's unlikely to have the temperament to go squealing to the cops.

Keep up the good work champ.
 
2013-03-17 06:59:23 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Bontesla: What was her BAC?

Nobody knows, there wasn't even a complaint filed until after the pictures surfaced.


That was my point. There isn't a whole lot of evidence to show how drunk she was. We only know that she was unconscious.

She was also bullied extensively online for even filing a complaint. Many party-goers thought she earned the rape and tweeted it. How many party goers are going to give an honest account of how much alcohol she ingested? How many parties have you been to in which you've tracked other peoples' consumption? I'd say eye witness testimony about how drunk the victim was is fairly unreliable.

We have no actual chemical evidence of what she had ingested and whether or not it was willful.
 
2013-03-17 07:00:35 PM
Trixie212: /don't care if you agree or understand

Then why are you bothering to post at all?
 
2013-03-17 07:03:46 PM

ZeroCorpse: People don't just lose consciousness after one drink.

People don't become completely limp, like a dead person, after one drink.

People don't forget everything after one drink.

It's pretty clear she was drugged.

Some reports say they found trace amounts of some "date rape drug" in her blood, but it was too long after the night in question (she had no memory of what happened, and then the police didn't want to pursue this matter) and the levels were not enough to stand up in court. There were also significant forces in that town covering things up.

What they did have was the evidence that she was unconscious before she even got to the first destination, and that she was sexually assaulted multiple times AFTER she was unconscious.

EVEN IF SHE WASN'T DRUGGED-- and there are witness accounts that she was-- it was undoubtedly wrong to rape her multiple times, drag her from place to place to be raped by several people, and then piss on her as she lay unconscious. It was undoubtedly wrong to tweet about her being "a dead girl" and "so raped" and "deserving to be peed on". It was undoubtedly wrong to dump her in her yard and leave her there after the deeds were done.

BUT... EVEN IF SHE WERE DRUNK, none of the actions of these guys was defensible.


I don't understand the point of this argument. What does it matter if she was drugged or pass-out drunk? There's a picture of her being held up by her wrists and ankles, clearly unconscious, around the time she was being carried around, penetrated, and jizzed on by the two scumbags. Yeah, drinking until she passed out sure put her in a vulnerable position, but that does nothing to excuse the rapists.
 
2013-03-17 07:04:31 PM

ciberido: Trixie212: /don't care if you agree or understand

Then why are you bothering to post at all?


Just because I've had such a wonderful afternoon. It's been so entertaining. Can't wait to do it again.
 
2013-03-17 07:04:41 PM

ciberido: Trixie212: /don't care if you agree or understand

Then why are you bothering to post at all?


In all seriousness Trix, this is why you should post more, lurk less. Getting kicked around for some things is THE BEST way to learn. Seriously. I learned more about critical thinking from participating in a gaming forum for years than from anywhere else. You gotta put on your big girl panties though, toughen up a wee bit...while not going to the dark side of the troll or meanies. It's a tough but fun road and in the end you'll be a better thinker for it. Too many of us have environments where we're not called out enough on our bullshiat. Good luck with that on a good forum.
 
2013-03-17 07:10:25 PM

Bontesla: Initial reports were that a few other girls also awoke the next morning to find themselves partially disrobed with no memory.


Most of these events-- the other girls who came out later-- were from previous victims that weren't there for that particular event, but did have a similar encounter with these guys in the "rape crew"-- One drink, unconsciousness, and then waking much later partially disrobed.

What the media doesn't talk about, but KnightSec and Anonymous does, is that these "rape crew" guys bragged about drugging and raping girls, and though circumstantial at best, these accounts from their peers have been swept under the rug and only appeared online when the story first surfaced before being buried.

The people in that town and that school know what's going on, and the powers-that-be in that town (and school) have been doing their damnedest to quiet students and adults who can support the stories of the "rape crew" being essentially ALLOWED (by coaches and police) to drug and rape girls as part of their twisted "support" of the football culture in that town.

You can say I lack citations all you want. I know what I read when the story broke, and I know what I saw on video and in print from the members of the "rape crew" themselves. These guys are not just taking advantage of drunk girls. They have had a system in place for victimizing girls and getting away with it for a while now, and if you ask me, they deserve to have their balls cut off.
 
2013-03-17 07:10:45 PM

Lady Indica: ciberido: Trixie212: /don't care if you agree or understand

Then why are you bothering to post at all?

In all seriousness Trix, this is why you should post more, lurk less. Getting kicked around for some things is THE BEST way to learn. Seriously. I learned more about critical thinking from participating in a gaming forum for years than from anywhere else. You gotta put on your big girl panties though, toughen up a wee bit...while not going to the dark side of the troll or meanies. It's a tough but fun road and in the end you'll be a better thinker for it. Too many of us have environments where we're not called out enough on our bullshiat. Good luck with that on a good forum.


Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.
 
2013-03-17 07:14:42 PM

Phil Moskowitz: Rape really highlights the human garbage on Fark. It's like spring cleaning for my ignore list. Time to toss a bunch of the human offal on the pile.


I can't believe this argument is still going on. Between contrarians who will argue any point no matter how absurd, morally "superior" busybodies who want to make themselves feel smarter than those suffering their darkest hours, and undersex men using rape victims to get back at all the women who dare not touch them, the rape threads bring out a pretty good cross-section of our lovely site.

Fortunately, society--real society--has determined rape to be so uncalled for and so savage that not one iota of blame or "responsibility" falls on the victim. What you're fighting now are the last remnants of our Puritanical past in its death throes combined with internet anonymity.
 
2013-03-17 07:16:59 PM

poot_rootbeer: I see that this is one of those threads where I have to set up an Automator script for "click 'ignore' button, enter 'blames the rape victim' as comment, click submit".

Jesus Christ, some of you people.


It's easier in threads like this to just favorite everyone who's NOT a rape apologist as "anti-rape."  Fewer clicks that way.
 
2013-03-17 07:18:30 PM

ZeroCorpse: People don't just lose consciousness after one drink.



Why do you think she only had one drink?
 
2013-03-17 07:19:10 PM
Society is not getting more humane or more intelligent. This thread makes that depressingly clear.
 
2013-03-17 07:19:53 PM
I love it.  A girl gets drunk and because she has a hoorah and tits she is now complicit in her own rape.

By that same emote, if Johnny the school jock gets wrecked some Friday nite jus becuz, he is now complicit in his own shiat kicking cuz he had muscles and deserved it as much as she did.

Man, where were this kid's friends that didn't have her back or her front.
 
2013-03-17 07:21:23 PM
Again, don't just take my word for it. Here's the word of the rapists themselves:

http://jezebel.com/5972553/anonymous-leaks-horrifying-video-of-steub en ville-high-schoolers-joking-about-raping-a-teenager-deader-than-trayvo n-martin

From TFA at Jezebel: Other choice quotes include: "It isn't really rape because you don't know if she wanted to or not" and "what if she was pregnant and gave birth to a dead baby?"

And how about this:   "She is so raped right now," said Nodianos to the camera. "There won't be any foreplay for a dead girl. It ain't wet now, to be honest. Trust me, I'm a doctor."

Here's a RawStory link, too:   http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/03/hackers-produce-disturbing-vide o -evidence-in-ohio-gang-rape-case/

And this article gives more details on the Anonymous involvement in this case, including the information they dug up that the MSM didn't bother to mention:  http://www.sott.net/article/255751-Date-rape-in-Ohio-Tale-of-rampant- c orruption-cronyism-and-cover-up


Here's a key piece of information:

Cody Saltsman sent many messages to people stating that "nobody breaks up with Cody Saltsman, Ill ruin that biatch". This was a month before the rape. A few weeks later, Saltsman's best friend - Trent Mays started texting the victim asking her for a date and pretending to like her and telling her over and over that everyone likes her and not to worry about Cody. He finally convinced her to let him meet her at her friends house and she remembers nothing past that point. A close personal friend of the victim received pics from her at 9:30 pm, and she was smiling and happy and with her group of girlfriends. An hour later she was unconscious and being viciously gang raped.

While the charges regarding the attack were dropped against Saltsman, he has provided ample evidence that he was present during this vicious gang rape - incriminating himself with multiple photos that he took of the victim during the various parties she was transported to. Examine these two photo's, one posted by Saltsman to his Instagram account and the other posted to Twitter by another member of the "Rape Crew" closely. These images are of another unknown victim of the "Rape Crew" published by Saltsman in 2011.



Defend that, rape apologists. Go ahead.
 
2013-03-17 07:21:31 PM

Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.


This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?
 
2013-03-17 07:24:57 PM

Trixie212: One last time, it's possible to believe the victim shares in some personal responsibility without being a "rape apologist".


No, no it really isn't.


Trixie212/they both agree with me on this subject
//not that you care


Well, you got me there.
 
2013-03-17 07:25:41 PM

ciberido: Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.

This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?


Dude, just put me on ignore with the others. That way, you won't have to continue tearing apart anything I say. Because at this point, you don't care to hear anything I say. You are just looking for another reason to argue.
 
2013-03-17 07:25:47 PM

ZeroCorpse: Examine these two photo's, one posted by Saltsman to his Instagram account and the other posted to Twitter by another member of the "Rape Crew" closely. These images are of another unknown victim of the "Rape Crew" published by Saltsman in 2011.


Sorry... The photos won't be posted here. They're borderline NSFW and in poor taste. You can follow the link for them if you need to see them.
 
2013-03-17 07:25:52 PM

Phil Moskowitz: Society is not getting more humane or more intelligent. This thread makes that depressingly clear.


Life would really suck if I judged the entirety of society it based on threads on the internet. I'm glad I don't do that.
 
2013-03-17 07:27:07 PM

ciberido: Trixie212: One last time, it's possible to believe the victim shares in some personal responsibility without being a "rape apologist".

No, no it really isn't.


Trixie212:  /they both agree with me on this subject
//not that you care

Well, you got me there.


So I'll ask you what you asked me earlier. Why are you commenting if you don't care?
 
2013-03-17 07:29:26 PM

ciberido: Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.

This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?


I do love people like you who get all angry over someone suggesting that someone might be even slightly responsible for what happens to them and yet stuff like "Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags." (in the second post in this very thread) just goes on unchallenged. I guess you can't tell people on tumblr about how much of a "Feminist" you are if you say something about that though.
 
2013-03-17 07:30:00 PM
It's the inevitable outcome when football is your Christ.

skreened.com

There are hundreds of sad towns across America where this is the ruin of lives.
 
2013-03-17 07:32:59 PM

Madbassist1: Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior


How the hell do you read that and have any doubt that she did not consent? Or is being passed out "like a dead body" implied consent?

/wtf is wrong with people
 
2013-03-17 07:33:02 PM

Dear Modmins:

In order to give Farkers a warning, please have the below picture as the Boobies in this thread:

i78.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-17 07:33:15 PM

ZeroCorpse: Defend that, rape apologists. Go ahead.


You do realize that the kid in the video isn't one of the two that were on trial today, right?
 
2013-03-17 07:35:56 PM
No mention of either community service or restitution to the victim.  Perhaps some of that will be decided in the civil suit that follows.
 
2013-03-17 07:35:58 PM

ZeroCorpse: EVEN IF SHE WASN'T DRUGGED-- and there are witness accounts that she was-- it was undoubtedly wrong to rape her multiple times, drag her from place to place to be raped by several people, and then piss on her as she lay unconscious. It was undoubtedly wrong to tweet about her being "a dead girl" and "so raped" and "deserving to be peed on". It was undoubtedly wrong to dump her in her yard and leave her there after the deeds were done.

BUT... EVEN IF SHE WERE DRUNK, none of the actions of these guys was defensible.



One farking year. This nation needs to get its farking head out of its ass and rethink its priorities and personal values.
 
2013-03-17 07:38:58 PM

ZeroCorpse: Again, don't just take my word for it. Here's the word of the rapists themselves:
...


Hearsay.

Look, I suspect that most of the things these kids said happened actually did occur.  But no prosecutor in North America would try to make a rape case out of this kind of evidence.
 
2013-03-17 07:40:11 PM

Madbassist1: OgreMagi: Their defense was "she didn't say no".  Didn't anyone explain to these assholes that when a girl is that drunk, that she can't give consent?  Even if she had drunkenly said, "yes", she still can not give consent.  Also, she was 16, so probably can't give consent even if sober (not sure of that state's laws on that).

This simple thing should be part of sex education.  IF SHE IS DRUNK SHE CAN NOT GIVE CONSENT.  How farking hard is this to understand?

I bet that town is going to make that poor girl's life miserable now.  Assholes.

Exactly! Men have to take responsibility! Women don't!! You tell em!


At the risk of responding to a troll or a moron (but I repeat myself), getting drunk does not constitute an invite for molestation.  Nor does wearing a revealing outfit.  In past discussions of this sort, I've made it clear that women who have second thoughts the next day and cry "rape" belong in jail, but a girl so drunk she's basically passed out is not "fair game", and when your posse is called "the rape squad" or some variation, you are asking to be tossed in jail.
 
2013-03-17 07:41:03 PM
When I go overseas, I dress like a yahoo, explain (loudly and slowly so the dumbasses overseas can understand) how great America is, and otherwise act like an Ugly American.

Statistics show that I can generally get away with that, and people will attack Americans randomly for no good reason.

/the only ones apologizing for rapists or blaming the rape victim are the strawmen that the ridiculous "I do what I want whatevah!" wingnuts are putting up for their dumb shouting points
 
2013-03-17 07:43:31 PM

offmymeds: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

I'm just going to go ahead and assume that at least half of them are trolls. They've  got nothing better to do than yank on your chain just to watch you get pissed. F*ck 'em.


Oh, sweet, FSM, I sure HOPE most of them are trolls.
 
2013-03-17 07:44:30 PM

EnglishMan: ciberido: Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.

This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?

I do love people like you who get all angry over someone suggesting that someone might be even slightly responsible for what happens to them and yet stuff like "Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags." (in the second post in this very thread) just goes on unchallenged. I guess you can't tell people on tumblr about how much of a "Feminist" you are if you say something about that though.



And I do love people like you who enjoy blaming victims.  So hugs and kiss all around!
 
2013-03-17 07:46:24 PM

Theaetetus: Telling women that they're partially responsible if they're drinking, wearing short skirts, in the wrong part of town, out at the wrong time of night, etc. is really telling rapists that these are the conditions for targets for whom we will not prosecute


If a drunk guy falls asleep in a park and is beaten and robbed I have no sympathy for the criminals but for hi sown behavior he would not have been robbed.

I understand it's your m.o. to find one person in these threads and berate them but the truth is when you use drugs or alcohol to the point of unconsciousness bad things often happen.  I can't control the behavior of robbers trolling the parks but I can control my own behavior.

Also you're a boring, one-trick pony attention whore.
 
2013-03-17 07:54:33 PM

ciberido: EnglishMan: ciberido: Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.

This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?

I do love people like you who get all angry over someone suggesting that someone might be even slightly responsible for what happens to them and yet stuff like "Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags." (in the second post in this very thread) just goes on unchallenged. I guess you can't tell people on tumblr about how much of a "Feminist" you are if you say something about that though.


And I do love people like you who enjoy blaming victims.  So hugs and kiss all around!


Please point out where I blamed the "victims". Also, stop resorting to attacking strawmen, people can disagree with you without hating women, being pro-rape or voting republican.
 
2013-03-17 07:57:29 PM
chocolate covered poop  - didn't realize I had suddenly become an Oxycontin-sucking, Dominican Republic child butt farking right wing social conservative.

verbal_jizm, tirob, BarkingUnicorn, MagSeven <<< the rest of you assholes need to keep your slutty little sisters off Ecstasy...and off the streets.
 
2013-03-17 08:00:55 PM

EnglishMan: ciberido: EnglishMan: ciberido: Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.

This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?

I do love people like you who get all angry over someone suggesting that someone might be even slightly responsible for what happens to them and yet stuff like "Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags." (in the second post in this very thread) just goes on unchallenged. I guess you can't tell people on tumblr about how much of a "Feminist" you are if you say something about that though.


And I do love people like you who enjoy blaming victims.  So hugs and kiss all around!

Please point out where I blamed the "victims". Also, stop resorting to attacking strawmen, people can disagree with you without hating women, being pro-rape or voting republican.


You don't have to state that you are blaming the victim.  If you even remotely suggest that drinking yourself into a coma is a poor way to protect yourself from people who may have ill intent, you are a rape apologist.

Trust me brah, I've been going at this all day.
 
2013-03-17 08:08:44 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: EnglishMan: ciberido: EnglishMan: ciberido: Trixie212: Ya know, normally I'm just very laid back and non-confrontational. This is a hot topic for me though, hence why I said everyone has a backstory. That's the main reason I never ignore anyone, even though some people are just so hateful. Everybody has a reason for being the way they are. Just because I don't know their story doesn't mean it's not valid for them to react the way they do.

This is a hot topic for you?  You feel really strongly that it's important to tell rape victims it was their own damn fault?

I do love people like you who get all angry over someone suggesting that someone might be even slightly responsible for what happens to them and yet stuff like "Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags." (in the second post in this very thread) just goes on unchallenged. I guess you can't tell people on tumblr about how much of a "Feminist" you are if you say something about that though.


And I do love people like you who enjoy blaming victims.  So hugs and kiss all around!

Please point out where I blamed the "victims". Also, stop resorting to attacking strawmen, people can disagree with you without hating women, being pro-rape or voting republican.

You don't have to state that you are blaming the victim.  If you even remotely suggest that drinking yourself into a coma is a poor way to protect yourself from people who may have ill intent, you are a rape apologist.

Trust me brah, I've been going at this all day.


I think people just have trouble grasping that there's a difference between "responsibility" and "guilt." If I walk down a dark ally at night, you could say I was partially responsible for being mugged, but nobody but an idiot would say I was partially guilty for the mugging. Now, it's true that some cretins literally will say that a girl who puts herself in a position like this was "asking for it."
 
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