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(Yahoo)   Justice delivered: two members of the high school football team that is the pride of Steubenville were found guilty of raping a drunken 16-year-old girl   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 772
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12535 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2013 at 11:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-17 01:18:10 PM
No, justice would have been to have them put down. This is a slap on the wrist that won't even show up on their records as adults.

Oh well, no room in prison anyway. Gotta save that for locking up potheads who are too lazy to rape people.
 
2013-03-17 01:19:07 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.


Amazing how far you've departed from the facts in this case just to justify your "rape victims deserve everything <strike>I do to them</strike> they get" philosophy.
 
2013-03-17 01:20:10 PM

Trixie212: SHARED.


Even in all caps, this is wrong.
 
2013-03-17 01:20:22 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???


of course they shouldn't have to be.
but wake up for fark's sake.
you have to be.
apparently.
sadly.
true.
 
2013-03-17 01:20:49 PM

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Amazing how far you've departed from the facts in this case just to justify your "rape victims deserve everything <strike>I do to them</strike> they get" philosophy.



The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.

Tell us of your inability to follow this case.
 
2013-03-17 01:20:53 PM
So many strawmen in here, this place is a real fire hazard.
 
2013-03-17 01:21:05 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???


I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.
 
2013-03-17 01:21:22 PM

elysive: captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.

I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.

Well, all you people are doing is shaming victims. I'm sure that rape victims dont suffer enough. They totally need more finger wagging from all the security experts on Fark. And it doesnt come off at all as if you are telling people it was their fault they got raped...even though their attackers made the important decision to do the crime.

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.


You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.
 
2013-03-17 01:21:40 PM

InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

Remember guys: fingering a drunk girl earns you an execution.



No, but it earns you a rape conviction in Ohio.
 
2013-03-17 01:21:55 PM

99.998er: What about the dick on the video? Shouldn't he be tried? If for nothing less than his lame jokes. He just sat there and played to the video and did shiat. If ever there was was punchable, that prick is it.


He got immunity in exchange for his testimony, probably a good idea for the state and the victim, since apparently his testimony went a long way towards ensuring the conviction in the face of dozens of people who were declining to say anything to police. Now they need to go after the adults who tried to keep this quiet, imo.
 
2013-03-17 01:22:38 PM
Bontesla:

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.


Brilliant!  Now show me a way to tell in a party with dozens/hundreds of people how you determine the 'worthwhile' factor of any and all members of the party before you begin to drink.
 
2013-03-17 01:22:39 PM

InitialCommentGuy: These days children are taught from an early age of stranger danger.  Don't eat, drink, etc. anything given to you by a stranger.  Apparently they just mystically lose this understanding at 14-18.  I'm sorry, but taking drinks in that atmosphere is a huge no-no per everything we teach, but apparently it is alright to forget basic lessons as long as booze are involved?


Again, you're imparting perfect wisdom and judgement on a sixteen year old girl. Its the same underlying reason her attackers were tried in juvenile court and not the big leagues.
 
2013-03-17 01:23:04 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: Truly we should accept any and all drinks from anyone who gives them to us.

I mean, strangers don't exist where there's booze right?

If only all sixteen year olds were as wise and above it all as you.

These days children are taught from an early age of stranger danger.  Don't eat, drink, etc. anything given to you by a stranger.  Apparently they just mystically lose this understanding at 14-18.  I'm sorry, but taking drinks in that atmosphere is a huge no-no per everything we teach, but apparently it is alright to forget basic lessons as long as booze are involved?


captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???


So what would make you guys happy? Let these jerks go free to make an example of this girl's unsafe behavior? Wth do you hope to accomplish with your comments? Yes, there are stupid, drunk teens out there. Both the boys and the girl in this story probably qualify, only the boys were criminally bad.
 
2013-03-17 01:23:21 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Amazing how far you've departed from the facts in this case just to justify your "rape victims deserve everything <strike>I do to them</strike> they get" philosophy.

The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.

Tell us of your inability to follow this case.


Tell us why you think that her classmates were "strangers".
 
2013-03-17 01:23:43 PM

ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...


If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.
 
2013-03-17 01:23:48 PM
Trixie12: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

How can you raise your sons to respect women when you obviously don't. You do think that it's okay to rape someone in certain circumstances, i.e., if they're drunk.

Lil' hint: rape victims (female and male) have plenty of guilt and shame and second guessing that they put on themselves. They really don't need you to add to it.

Ask me how I know.
 
2013-03-17 01:24:24 PM
Jim_Tressel's_O-Face:

Again, you're imparting perfect wisdom and judgement on a sixteen year old girl. Its the same underlying reason her attackers were tried in juvenile court and not the big leagues.

I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.
 
2013-03-17 01:24:32 PM

Polyhazard: Trixie212: casey17: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

Those would be the words of Trixie212.

Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

Did you raise your sons to believe that a drunk woman has "just as much responsibility" for her rape as the rapist, or just your daughters?


Not that any of you are even trying to hear everything I've said since its only convenient to pick out what you want to make an issue with, let me say this one more time. The boys are to blame for touching her in any damned way and yes, I raised my sons to know that have any sexual contact with a drunk female was reprehensible. I also raised my daughters to understand that all boys were not raised to respect females so it was their responsibility to remain in control.
 
2013-03-17 01:25:05 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I said she SHARED respo ...


I have a question for you. If the girl had not been drinking at all and had just been out ("with her friends" as she thought she was) and this happened, would she still have "shared" responsibility for what happened to her?

Once again for the slow crowd, SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS WITH FRIENDS!  I'm willing to bet most of you have gone out & gotten blotto with your buddies - did it EVER cross your mind that they'd end up raping you & putting the video on display? She KNEW & TRUSTED these people - they weren't random people she'd just met at a local bar.

Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.
 
2013-03-17 01:25:12 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.

I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.

Well, all you people are doing is shaming victims. I'm sure that rape victims dont suffer enough. They totally need more finger wagging from all the security experts on Fark. And it doesnt come off at all as if you are telling people it was their fault they got raped...even though their attackers made the important decision to do the crime.

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.


You must really hate men. Contrary to your apparent belief, we're not all rapists. In fact, the best studies peg it as being around 6-10% of the population, coincidentally similar to the rate of sociopathy.
 
2013-03-17 01:25:14 PM

skwerl: First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

Besides, the 'list' is a farce. Sex is a natural animal instinct practiced by every single living organism on earth. There are a few twisted individuals who overstep the bounds of accepted human decency but far too many are wrongly tattooed with the Scarlet Letter on their foreheads for life. 16 year old kids have hormones raging. All three of them got drunk and fell victim to natural human instinct.


So you're saying that teenage boys were just actling like teenage boys? I was a teenage boy and I never once dragged an underaged, unconscious girl out to my car, took her to a friend's house, and in front of a bunch of drunken kids proceeded to undress her and stick my fingers inside her while my buddies took photos and videotaped the incident, then published it on the internet. But hey, that was 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. What fun shenanigans boys get into today!

Sure, you can blame the victim and say that if she didn't want that, she shouldn't have gone to such a party and become inebriated. On the other hand, I'm guessing that you've gotten drunk before, but never once did you expect to wake up to find photos of yourself with some strange dude's fingers up your ass all over the internet. And should such a thing happen to you, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say to yourself, "Well, I guess I learned a valuable lesson about getting drunk. That guy was just doing what any normal guy would do by sticking his fingers up my ass." No, I'm fairly certain you'd be pretty farking upset about it.

So no, this was not just a couple of horny teenagers drinking too much. It was two farking entitled pieces of shiat, who have spent a good part of their lives with people telling them how awesome they are and often being excused from consequences that most other kids would have endured along the way, who figured this would improve their street cred among their buddies.

Then there's the question of whether they even realized what they had done was wrong, which is even more troubling. If not, this is a way of telling them in no uncertain terms that we, as a society, do not condone this type of behavior. And if they did know it was wrong, then WTF? Seriously, WTF? That's ever so much worse.

So no, I don't think this was just nature taking its course and boys being boys. If it was, then every 16-year-old kid would be raping unconscious girls.

But they don't. The ones that do get convicted and go to jail.
 
2013-03-17 01:25:17 PM

Popular Opinion: captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???

of course they shouldn't have to be.
but wake up for fark's sake.
you have to be.
apparently.
sadly.
true.


My post was heavily tongue-in-cheek.  Tis a sad and brutal world we live in.
 
2013-03-17 01:26:30 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: iaazathot: Lenny_da_Hog: adamgreeney: It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

Let me guess: You're another one who thinks the "War on Women" is waged by men.

Let me guess, you're another one who thinks men are being oppressed?  Yep, those poor, poor men...

That whooshing sound is the point flying over your head.

Authoritarian women are just as responsible for the oppression of women as authoritarian men are. Judgmental morality against women, from women, shouldn't surprise anyone. Go to a Wednesday night Bible study meeting in a small church basement sometime to see how authoritarian women think.


Ah, gotcha.  Yes, women are co-opted into patriarchy and help maintain it.  However, very few of them sit in the upper echelons.  For the most part it is men at the top.  Some women do jump on the opportunity to twist it to their advantage.  The research I did for my master's suggested that women who have a more masculine gender identity rise farther and get paid more than women who had more feminine gender identities.  It is estimated that something like what happened in Nazi Germany only requires a third of the population go along with it, given the right conditions.  Snitches, sellouts, and sympathizers exist in any oppressive system.
 
2013-03-17 01:26:39 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.

Brilliant!  Now show me a way to tell in a party with dozens/hundreds of people how you determine the 'worthwhile' factor of any and all members of the party before you begin to drink.


As a general rule of thumb - a worthwhile person doesn't rape others.

You're an idiot if you think that you can protect yourself against rape. There are things you can do - carry a whistle, carry coasters to test your drink for drugs, travel in groups, etc. to make you safer. But not doing these things does not make you responsible for your own rape nor does doing them it fully protect you from rape. Do you know why? Because NOTHING a victim does makes her/him responsible for rape.
 
2013-03-17 01:26:44 PM

InitialCommentGuy: The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.


You've no way of proving either way that they were strangers since the girl doesn't remember a damn thing.

Unless they found everyone who gave her a drink last night and had them testify under oath that they'd never met the girl before, you have no idea.

Of course, her taking drinks from strangers fits your narrative of her irresponsibility much better, so there we are.
 
2013-03-17 01:26:45 PM

casey17: Once again for the slow crowd, SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS WITH FRIENDS!  I'm willing to bet most of you have gone out & gotten blotto with your buddies - did it EVER cross your mind that they'd end up raping you & putting the video on display? She KNEW & TRUSTED these people - they weren't random people she'd just met at a local bar.

Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.


I do so enjoy that you believe that men are never told to not rape...
 
2013-03-17 01:27:04 PM

Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?


It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.
 
2013-03-17 01:27:12 PM

Bontesla: captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.


Why?

And how do you know who is "worthwhile" and who is not?  Especially when using drugs/alcohol.
 
2013-03-17 01:27:54 PM

Flying Lasagna Monster: Another negro gets put in a cage where he belongs.  What a shocker.


And another asshole gets sent to the Land of Nore.

*plonk*
 
2013-03-17 01:27:58 PM

casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I said she SHARED respo ...

I have a question for you. If the girl had not been drinking at all and had just been out ("with her friends" as she thought she was) and this happened, would she still have "shared" responsibility for what happened to her?

Once again for the slow crowd, SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS WITH FRIENDS!  I'm willing to bet most of you have gone out & gotten blotto with your buddies - did it EVER cross your mind that they'd end up raping you & putting the video on display? She KNEW & TRUSTED these people - they weren't random people she'd just met at a local bar.

Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.


No.
 
2013-03-17 01:28:24 PM

Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.


Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.
 
2013-03-17 01:29:12 PM

yelmrog: InitialCommentGuy: The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.

You've no way of proving either way that they were strangers since the girl doesn't remember a damn thing.

Unless they found everyone who gave her a drink last night and had them testify under oath that they'd never met the girl before, you have no idea.

Of course, her taking drinks from strangers fits your narrative of her irresponsibility much better, so there we are.


Even one drink from a stranger is enough to be drugged.  But again she did drink over six drinks if I recall the testimony... but no teenaged girl would pass out from six heavy drinks.
 
2013-03-17 01:29:12 PM

casey17: Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not.


Not this again.

Say no to drugs. If stopping people from committing crimes were as simple as telling people not to do it we wouldn't have any crime.
 
2013-03-17 01:30:18 PM

jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.


Because that totally agrees with what I said.
 
2013-03-17 01:31:08 PM
casey17:Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.

Doesn't help, for an obvious reason: the vast majority of men are not rapists. The ones who are are sociopaths like InitialCommentGuy, and telling them not to rape will not be successful, by definition. All we can do is publicly identify them and warn people so that they don't have an opportunity to rape, and simultaneously let them know that we're watching them and they won't find any sympathy or escape from prosecution with their "but she was drunk" or "but she was wearing a short skirt" or "but she's had sex before so she's a slut".
 
2013-03-17 01:31:16 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.


WOMEN ARE NEVER TO BLAME!  They are strong, powerful, goddesses who should rely heavily on the social contract to protect themselves.

Of course a court-enforced OOP is barely worth the paper it is printed on to protect a domestic abuse victim, but please let us sit and believe a vague "we're cool? no rape?" nudge prevents any and all from performing any heinous acts.
 
2013-03-17 01:31:41 PM

InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.


So you never were a teenager, you were formed onto this sinful Earth fully-formed with all-seeing wisdom and judgement over others. How nice.
 
2013-03-17 01:33:10 PM

InitialCommentGuy: yelmrog: InitialCommentGuy: The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.

You've no way of proving either way that they were strangers since the girl doesn't remember a damn thing.

Unless they found everyone who gave her a drink last night and had them testify under oath that they'd never met the girl before, you have no idea.

Of course, her taking drinks from strangers fits your narrative of her irresponsibility much better, so there we are.

Even one drink from a stranger is enough to be drugged.


I think three people have now pointed out that these weren't strangers, and you keep pushing this narrative. Why? Do you really think that we're not paying attention to what you're trying to do?
 
2013-03-17 01:33:14 PM
Theaetetus:

Doesn't help, for an obvious reason: the vast majority of men are not rapists. The ones who are are sociopaths like InitialCommentGuy, and telling them not to rape will not be successful, by definition. All we can do is publicly identify them and warn people so that they don't have an opportunity to rape, and simultaneously let them know that we're watching them and they won't find any sympathy or escape from prosecution with their "but she was drunk" or "but she was wearing a short skirt" or "but she's had sex before so she's a slut".

Yes, again.  Anyone who says something you disagree with must be a rapist.

BitingBeaver is that you?
 
2013-03-17 01:33:30 PM

InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.


On that note, you would be all for trying the perps as adults then, right? Obviously they should've known better, so why coddle them as juveniles?
 
2013-03-17 01:34:15 PM
According to the usage and conventions which are at last being questions but have by no means been overcome, the social presence of a woman is different in kind from that of a man. A man's presence is dependent upon the promise of power which he embodies. If the promise is large and credible is presence is striking. If it is small or incredible, he is found to have little presence. The promised power may be moral, physical, temperamental, economic, social, sexual - but its object is always exterior to a man. A man's presence suggests what he is capable of doing to you or for you. His presence may be fabricated, in the sense that he pretends to be capable of hat he is not. But the presence is always towards a power which he exercises on others.

By contrast, a woman's presence expresses her own attitude to herself, and defines what can and cannot be done to her. Her presence is manifested in her gestures, voice, opinions, expressions, clothes, chosen surroundings, taste - indeed there is nothing she can do which does not contribute to her presence. Presence for a woman is so intrinsic to her person that men tend to think of it as an almost physical emanation, a kind of heat or smell or aura.

One might simplify this by saying: men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves. The surveyor of women in herself is male: the surveyed female. Thus she turns herself into an object - and most particularly an object of vision: a sight.
  - John Berger

IMO they obviously raped her, and even though she did make a stupid choice of getting drunk. I know they are all teenagers, but they are obviously going to make stupid choices, but with the girl, she just made a choice that would only embarrassed herself if nothing else happened. These young boys decided to prey upon the girl who is obviously to drunk to notice anything. Just because she made a stupid mistake that as far as I know wasn't hurting anyone but herself; doesn't mean she deserved to get raped. She didn't deserve it, and her actions did not allow her to get it. We need to stop treating women to be careful how they act or look, because those might cause bad things to happen to her. Instead we need to start teaching men on not to hurt someone like a woman regardless of how they present themselves.
 
2013-03-17 01:34:20 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: Bontesla: captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.

Why?

And how do you know who is "worthwhile" and who is not?  Especially when using drugs/alcohol.


My point - you've missed it. I'll restate it.

My point: not taking preventative measures does not guarantee you're safe from rape. Why? Because rapists do not obtain permission from their victims. It's rape.

Rapists will rape. The victims have no say in this. Even if they hide their ankles and travel in groups.

Trying to shift the blame off of the rapist and onto the victim is absurd. Obviously the victim had no say in his/her rape and trying to pretend that the rape could have been avoided if only . . . makes you a shi*tty person.
 
2013-03-17 01:34:30 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.

So you never were a teenager, you were formed onto this sinful Earth fully-formed with all-seeing wisdom and judgement over others. How nice.


I was a teenager.  I also didn't accept a drink I didn't personally mix/pour myself or give out a drink that wasn't witnessed being mixed by the person I made it for.

You do realize teenager doesn't equal moron to everyone right champ?
 
2013-03-17 01:34:59 PM
captainmaxthedestroyer:

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.

Please do tell us how men function, because you seem to be saying that he mere sight of a naked women sends men into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust and rapine. If that's the case the average life drawing/painting class should be banned forthwith! Art museums should have armed guards in every room!

Seriously are you saying that given the opportunity, the average dude would rape a vulnerable woman because he just can't help it? You certainly seem to have a low opinion of men's capacity for rationality.
 
2013-03-17 01:35:58 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.

On that note, you would be all for trying the perps as adults then, right? Obviously they should've known better, so why coddle them as juveniles?


Yes.

Your point?
 
2013-03-17 01:36:00 PM

Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.

You must really hate men. Contrary to your apparent belief, we're not all rapists. In fact, the best studies peg it as being around 6-10% of the population, coincidentally similar to the rate of sociopathy.


I'm not a rapist, either.  And during my college days, I had many drunken sluts and idiots escorted back to their rooms to safety and made it clear they weren't invited back due to their behavior.

But I do know that 10% exists.  And had one of them been the escort for those same intoxicated idiots I certainly would not have been surprised nor would I have felt the slightest bit of sympathy for them had they got that ass tore up.
 
2013-03-17 01:36:32 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Even one drink from a stranger is enough to be drugged.  But again she did drink over six drinks if I recall the testimony... but no teenaged girl would pass out from six heavy drinks


Again, you're assuming she was accepting drinks from strangers without proof either way.  You're also making assumptions about the alcohol content in the drinks without proof either way.  In fact, you assume quite a bit about this case for some reason.
 
2013-03-17 01:36:48 PM

Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".


There's no such thing as a gentle rape.
 
2013-03-17 01:36:50 PM

InitialCommentGuy: I was a teenager.  I also didn't accept a drink I didn't personally mix/pour myself or give out a drink that wasn't witnessed being mixed by the person I made it for.


Yes, yes, we know, your wisdom and maturity came with you straight from the womb. You have been immaculate since, never having slipped up or made a mistake. We can take your word for it, since you're being so judgemental on the internet.
 
2013-03-17 01:36:57 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.


Other way around, actually. Telling women that they're partially responsible if they're drinking, wearing short skirts, in the wrong part of town, out at the wrong time of night, etc. is really telling rapists that these are the conditions for targets for whom we will not prosecute. That's what helps rapists.
 
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