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(Yahoo)   Justice delivered: two members of the high school football team that is the pride of Steubenville were found guilty of raping a drunken 16-year-old girl   ( news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: News, Ohio, found guilty, football team  
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12573 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2013 at 11:24 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-17 11:26:16 AM  
No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."
 
2013-03-17 11:26:47 AM  
Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.
 
2013-03-17 11:27:00 AM  
Is it Justice or Just Ass?
 
2013-03-17 11:27:50 AM  
THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

media.comicvine.com
 
2013-03-17 11:28:26 AM  

tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.


They're going to juvie, which while not good, is far from what they deserved.
 
2013-03-17 11:28:29 AM  

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.
 
2013-03-17 11:29:44 AM  
Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.
 
2013-03-17 11:30:05 AM  
How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.
 
2013-03-17 11:30:34 AM  
This comment blocked by the administrator.
 
2013-03-17 11:30:45 AM  

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


How dare people be properly tried under the law as juveniles!
 
2013-03-17 11:30:48 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:


BTW didnt she start out underage, illegally?

/preemptive chris hansen.jpg
 
2013-03-17 11:30:52 AM  
Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.
 
2013-03-17 11:31:18 AM  
HURRRRRRR I'm Submitter and I have OPINIONS!111one!1
 
2013-03-17 11:31:20 AM  
so where will they be playing their college ball?

/my money's on "the U" or notre dame...
 
2013-03-17 11:32:03 AM  

ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.


The judge did.
 
2013-03-17 11:32:13 AM  

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


At least one year of juvenile prison, though both can be held till they're 21.  Trent Mays gets an additional 1 year for use of a minor in nudity material, which is to be served right after his rape sentence.

Such BS
 
2013-03-17 11:32:19 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:


I thought it was a drunken Italian crooner.
 
2013-03-17 11:32:26 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-17 11:32:49 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.
 
2013-03-17 11:32:49 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


The judge did.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:03 AM  

ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.


They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.  And it's not 'date' rape asshat. It's rape. They even CALLED it such on the video they made. And the adults who were involved in the cover up following the rape will be very fortunate if they don't face federal prosecution.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:30 AM  
It's not real "justice" justice. The legal system has a way of shutting that thing down when they turn 21.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:33 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-17 11:33:36 AM  

jso2897: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

The judge did.


Caffeine deprivation posting fail. Reply to wrong post.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:48 AM  
Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:54 AM  

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


I hope they can look forward to a lifetime of "Sex offender" registration.
 
2013-03-17 11:34:33 AM  
I wouldn't have even heard of it, had Anonymous not gotten involved.
 
2013-03-17 11:34:35 AM  
I think we should all keep this in perspective and remember how much this will damage their chances of getting to the state finals next season.
 
2013-03-17 11:35:47 AM  

Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.


These outcomes suggests that it at least partially insulates you from them.
 
2013-03-17 11:36:02 AM  

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


Unfortunately, they were tried as juveniles, so that's probably what they'll get.
 
2013-03-17 11:36:25 AM  
Oh goody. Another Fark rape apologist thread.
 
2013-03-17 11:36:52 AM  
I thought football was the other occupation that gave you a pass on any vile behaviour whatsoever?
 
2013-03-17 11:37:03 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


Trolling a thread pertaining to the brutal rape of a child? Stay classy, POS.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:17 AM  

Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.


 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:49 AM  
Never would have happened in Florida or Texas.

/The conviction, that is.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:52 AM  

sgtbarthel: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Trolling a thread pertaining to the brutal rape of a child? Stay classy, POS.


I'd suggest you do some research.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:58 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-17 11:38:07 AM  
It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.
 
2013-03-17 11:38:16 AM  
Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?

This makes me wonder how those guys on "to catch a predator" can get multiple years worth of hard prison time, along with a lifetime sex offender status for simply showing up to a house containing NO UNDERAGE GIRLS.

I fully realize in both example - the guys are scum, but getting a slap on the wrist for doing the crime, and then getting your life taken away for thinking about doing the crime... wow.

How long till we see these guys in the news again for raping someone after they are out of juvenile? I'd love to see some hard data on the probability of a sexual offender doing a repeat offense X number of years after caught.

Why not just make a rule that says "if you are convicted of rape, you will have your junk cut off, and be put in a hard labor camp for 20 years -- or we hang out, your choice"  Sure it sounds harsh... but anyone who would actually rape someone isn't someone that should be allowed to take up space in what otherwise might be a good society.
 
2013-03-17 11:38:20 AM  
Steubenville is a shiathole.
 
2013-03-17 11:39:04 AM  

Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.


i28.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-17 11:39:21 AM  

Hoarseman: Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.

These outcomes suggests that it at least partially insulates you from them.


I don't know about that.  If there wasn't the football player aspect, would anonymous have even noticed?  Tell me you don't think that this was the only rape to occur last year, please.  I still,sadly, think far too many rapes go unreported, and very much plea bargained away.
 
2013-03-17 11:39:22 AM  

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


I associate Steubenville with fundamentalist Catholics and their university there.  Which would explain alot about the morality question and handling of a rape case involving a defendant in a position of power.
 
2013-03-17 11:39:27 AM  
Ohio's AG is respnding to the verdicts right now... http://www.newsnet5.com/subindex/news/news_livestream1
 
2013-03-17 11:39:34 AM  

Lady Indica: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.  And it's not 'date' rape asshat. It's rape. They even CALLED it such on the video they made. And the adults who were involved in the cover up following the rape will be very fortunate if they don't face federal prosecution.


That's the real key. This conviction paves the way for pretty much the entire school administration to do decades in prison.
 
2013-03-17 11:39:34 AM  
Weren't the internet white knight brigades worked up that some kids were giggling on camera and were not being charged as well?  As far as I can tell the two kids were being charged and facing justice since the beginning.

Though I found it hilarious when that photo surfaced of some random kid sitting down and they circled on the picture  a .22 rifle that was on the ground behind his chair, as this was proof he needed to go to jail or something
 
2013-03-17 11:39:56 AM  

Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.


You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...
 
2013-03-17 11:40:00 AM  

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


I'm sure they consider themselves an upright Christian god-fearing community.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:03 AM  
Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:38 AM  

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


Wow man, you were really upright back then. It's good you've loosened up.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:41 AM  

Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual


Oxymoron, dumbass.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:54 AM  
Almost to the end of the page and nobody is crying about how they were already tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion?  Good.

/society SHOULD look down on rapist scum
 
2013-03-17 11:41:09 AM  
Good.
 
2013-03-17 11:41:29 AM  
Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...
 
2013-03-17 11:41:54 AM  

Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.


Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.
 
2013-03-17 11:41:56 AM  

accelerus: Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?


Only if you are a minor. And they will be doing at least a year, possibly 4 or 5.
 
2013-03-17 11:41:59 AM  
mikaloyd:

They should make him wear his sweater best in prison. He would be the belle of the ball.
 
2013-03-17 11:42:02 AM  

sgtbarthel: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Trolling a thread pertaining to the brutal rape of a child? Stay classy, POS.


Brutal rape? She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal. This chick didn't deserve for these guys to touch her in any way but what she went through was hardly brutal.
 
2013-03-17 11:42:28 AM  

ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.


Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:03 AM  

Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.


Tell me of your homeworld.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:03 AM  
"...have been sentenced to at least one year in juvenile jail."

Justice was not served. 1 year in juvie is a slap on the wrist. These monsters need to be in prison, gen pop. You can make sangria in a turlet. Of course it's shanked or be shanked.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:06 AM  
By the way, the posting of Tracy earlier is sadly appropriate.  Last night she said she was raped by a 14 year old Steubenvillian when she was 10.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:27 AM  

monty666: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

Wow man, you were really upright back then. It's good you've loosened up.


HA!
 
2013-03-17 11:43:49 AM  

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?


It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:50 AM  

ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.


Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:53 AM  
Hooray! Rape celebration!

Fark is awesome!
 
2013-03-17 11:44:12 AM  

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Given the whole recording thing, the guys were clearly much less impaired, so this case doesn't work that way.  When you're doing a bit of amateur video work on the side, you have a hard time credibly arguing you couldn't provide consent.
 
2013-03-17 11:44:35 AM  

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.
 
2013-03-17 11:44:38 AM  
Could you have chosen a more pissweak light-on-facts news story if you tried? The comments section alludes to so much more. Very frustrating.
 
2013-03-17 11:45:07 AM  

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Let's put that argument in context. You get shiatfaced in a bar, walk out the back door into tha alley by mistake, where a large hoodlum, who is also shiatfaced, smashes your head in and relieves you of your watch, wallet, and anal virginity. Would you hold him to be your victim, as well?
 
2013-03-17 11:45:16 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


Well, shiat...we all know how unreliable eye witnesses are.  Unless there's DNA and videotape evidence, we can't be sure of guilt.  So let's let out all the prisoners with less than that as evidence out.  Your rapey jock buddies can go free along with most of the other guys!
 
2013-03-17 11:45:30 AM  

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


You did notice that one of them is not white, right?
 
2013-03-17 11:45:51 AM  

Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.


Anyone know for certain how the law views this?  I was under the impression that it was if you were passed out drunk.  If you were inebriated that was a different matter.
 
2013-03-17 11:46:21 AM  
Good lord this thread got off to a wonderful start.

I've got to say, trolling a teenage rape thread on a sunday morning is a new one on Fark, I've got to believe.
 
2013-03-17 11:46:25 AM  

monty666: mikaloyd:

They should make him wear his sweater best in prison. He would be the belle of the ball.


In most States you would be correct. In Ohio they respect sweater vests no matter hat.
 
2013-03-17 11:46:42 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Well, shiat...we all know how unreliable eye witnesses are.  Unless there's DNA and videotape evidence, we can't be sure of guilt.  So let's let out all the prisoners with less than that as evidence out.  Your rapey jock buddies can go free along with most of the other guys!


They never proved Charlie Manson killed anybody - let's cut him loose!
 
2013-03-17 11:46:44 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole


Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.
 
2013-03-17 11:48:06 AM  

adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.


Again, the prosecutor did not file at such a level as to push them into "tried as an adult territory".  What the crime was is irrelevant at this stage, the judge can only sentence based on what the prosecutors got convictions on.  The prosecutors went after them as juveniles who committed the act at a party, not as adults who were sociopath scum.  They were sentenced as such.
 
2013-03-17 11:48:36 AM  
oukewldave: Rape is never OK

Unless you play football in college. Then it's expected, the college and the courts will do everything they can to cover it up, to suppress witnesses, and to intimidate the accusers into leaving the state.
 
2013-03-17 11:48:36 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?

It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.


She wasn't just drunk.  She was unconscious for a lot of it.  Hence them calling her "dead."  Sex with an unconscious person is rape, since they can't consent (not even drunkenly).
 
2013-03-17 11:48:53 AM  

jso2897: Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.


What are you on about? I'm not following you.
 
2013-03-17 11:48:55 AM  
Wow, they start training to be NFL players earlier every year.
 
2013-03-17 11:49:02 AM  

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


So, when they try to apply for college or pursue careers.  The juvenile justice system can't do more than put them away until they're 21.
 
2013-03-17 11:49:30 AM  

InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.


Why would we draw the line a rape? Why hold anyone criminally responsible for what they do to drunken people? If somebody is too drunk to stop me beating their ass and taking their wallet - don't blame me!
Lame.
 
2013-03-17 11:49:31 AM  
Hopefully they have to register as a sex offender for life after this.
 
2013-03-17 11:49:57 AM  
Trixie212:
You did notice that one of them is not white, right?

Silly Trixie... This is Ohio!  Obviously all perpetrators of rape are evil white males!

Law and Order told me so.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:31 AM  

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.



l.yimg.com

Yup. You're a moron.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:36 AM  

sobe: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

I'm sure they consider themselves an upright Christian god-fearing community.


nobody who truly fears god would do such a thing.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:36 AM  

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:41 AM  

ha-ha-guy: adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.

Again, the prosecutor did not file at such a level as to push them into "tried as an adult territory".  What the crime was is irrelevant at this stage, the judge can only sentence based on what the prosecutors got convictions on.  The prosecutors went after them as juveniles who committed the act at a party, not as adults who were sociopath scum.  They were sentenced as such.


Also the one thing is the minimum as some of the better articles on this case mention.  They could very well be in until their 21 depending on how future hearings go.  You want them in after 21 though?  Talk to the prosecutor about why he didn't charge as an adult.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:46 AM  

Madbassist1: jso2897: Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.

What are you on about? I'm not following you.


I'm not surprised.
 
2013-03-17 11:51:06 AM  

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.
 
2013-03-17 11:51:29 AM  

Kentucky Fried Children: Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

BTW didnt she start out underage, illegally?

/preemptive chris hansen.jpg


She was 16 in her first porno.  Only in the last one  was she of legal age.

Recently, she claimed that she and her mother were raped by Steubenville thugs.
 
2013-03-17 11:52:03 AM  

mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]


Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?
 
2013-03-17 11:52:16 AM  

ginandbacon: Oh goody. Another Fark rape apologist thread.


I dunno, up until this point I have been pleasantly surprised. Thanks for being sensible people, most of yez!
 
2013-03-17 11:52:24 AM  

Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.


Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too
 
2013-03-17 11:52:30 AM  
Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.
 
2013-03-17 11:52:39 AM  

ha-ha-guy: adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.

Again, the prosecutor did not file at such a level as to push them into "tried as an adult territory".  What the crime was is irrelevant at this stage, the judge can only sentence based on what the prosecutors got convictions on.  The prosecutors went after them as juveniles who committed the act at a party, not as adults who were sociopath scum.  They were sentenced as such.


While that is true, it doesn't make what they did or the outcome any better. If your wife was hit by a drunk by a drunk driver and he only got charged with involuntary manslaughter, does that make her less dead that if it was a murder charge?

The prosecutor, in my opinion, dropped the ball because they were afraid pushing for a harsher sentence would be tossed out due to the culture of the town and the ridiculous bias towards the kids and the football team. They deserve more, but they didn't get it. At least they got put away for a while.
 
2013-03-17 11:52:49 AM  

Quaker: So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.


I'm sure you have a great argument...but it is pointless in a thread where the victim was shown to be completely unconscious.
 
2013-03-17 11:52:58 AM  
jso2897:

Why would we draw the line a rape? Why hold anyone criminally responsible for what they do to drunken people? If somebody is too drunk to stop me beating their ass and taking their wallet - don't blame me!
Lame.



i1.ytimg.com

If you fail to conduct yourself properly around individuals who have the potential to do you harm then you have placed yourself at great risk.  Indeed alcohol and most other popular narcotics are looseners of social inhibitions.

Keep your head straight.

Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again...  But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?
 
2013-03-17 11:53:37 AM  

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


You might want to examine those pictures of the defendants a LITTLE more closely there, Sparky.
 
2013-03-17 11:53:54 AM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.


Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/
 
2013-03-17 11:55:28 AM  

jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too


I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".
 
2013-03-17 11:55:34 AM  

bulldg4life: Good lord this thread got off to a wonderful start.

I've got to say, trolling a teenage rape thread on a sunday morning is a new one on Fark, I've got to believe.


Did you catch the 'all black people are criminals' thread from last night?  The very people you expect to show up in that thread didn't even bother being indirect in their racism.
 
2013-03-17 11:55:35 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-17 11:56:26 AM  

jso2897: Madbassist1: jso2897: Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.

What are you on about? I'm not following you.

I'm not surprised.


Ha ha. way to (continue) to obfuscate. Let me explain it in small words for ya. What do logical consequences have to do with this...at all? Why bring it up? Is there any use to this supposed angle? Or are you just stringing words together hoping no one will notice you're an idiot?
 
2013-03-17 11:57:00 AM  

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Shes female...and everyone knows women cant be guilty of rape.
 
2013-03-17 11:57:10 AM  

Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college Steelers.

 
2013-03-17 11:58:05 AM  

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


these days it seems kids that do what they want based on whether they think they can get away with it, not on whether it is right or wrong.

they learned from bill clinton, and america's decision that he could be president, even if he abused women and used his power and position to take what he wants.
 
2013-03-17 11:58:35 AM  

accelerus: Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?

This makes me wonder how those guys on "to catch a predator" can get multiple years worth of hard prison time, along with a lifetime sex offender status for simply showing up to a house containing NO UNDERAGE GIRLS.

I fully realize in both example - the guys are scum, but getting a slap on the wrist for doing the crime, and then getting your life taken away for thinking about doing the crime... wow.

How long till we see these guys in the news again for raping someone after they are out of juvenile? I'd love to see some hard data on the probability of a sexual offender doing a repeat offense X number of years after caught.

Why not just make a rule that says "if you are convicted of rape, you will have your junk cut off, and be put in a hard labor camp for 20 years -- or we hang out, your choice"  Sure it sounds harsh... but anyone who would actually rape someone isn't someone that should be allowed to take up space in what otherwise might be a good society.



First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

Besides, the 'list' is a farce. Sex is a natural animal instinct practiced by every single living organism on earth. There are a few twisted individuals who overstep the bounds of accepted human decency but far too many are wrongly tattooed with the Scarlet Letter on their foreheads for life. 16 year old kids have hormones raging. All three of them got drunk and fell victim to natural human instinct.
 
2013-03-17 11:58:57 AM  

Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".


I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.
 
2013-03-17 11:59:45 AM  

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Unlikely. Even if that were true then they should be placed in a home for the criminally insane and not left to wander around amongst normal peple doing things "their way"
 
2013-03-17 11:59:53 AM  

Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.


She was sixteen! Drunk or not. Sixteen.
 
2013-03-17 12:00:12 PM  

Polyhazard: ginandbacon: Oh goody. Another Fark rape apologist thread.

I dunno, up until this point I have been pleasantly surprised. Thanks for being sensible people, most of yez!


Your ignore list must be more up-to-date than mine.
 
2013-03-17 12:00:16 PM  

ChuDogg: InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.


[l.yimg.com image 850x725]

Yup. You're a moron.


Williams?
 
2013-03-17 12:00:47 PM  
It's really high time to start doing this North Korea style.

Where would we have to start, and which parts of the Constitution need to be put through the shredder in order to make verdicts such as these more.......publicly violent?
 
2013-03-17 12:00:52 PM  

Big Ramifications: Could you have chosen a more pissweak light-on-facts news story if you tried? The comments section alludes to so much more. Very frustrating.


Came to say pretty much this.  The NYT has a nice reprise of the trial.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:26 PM  
So who provided the liquor to this young lady at the party anyway?
 
2013-03-17 12:01:27 PM  

Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.


Ok nm. They're douchebags.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:28 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


I sort of can't stand when people say "nobody here knows... what happened". Did you not pay attention to the trial? The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent? Lock the rapists up! And to think she thought of him as a trusted friend, but he continued to play her even afterward. What an asshole. Poor girl.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:31 PM  
What about the dick on the video? Shouldn't he be tried? If for nothing less than his lame jokes. He just sat there and played to the video and did shiat. If ever there was was punchable, that prick is it.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:39 PM  

GAT_00: Did you catch the 'all black people are criminals' thread from last night?


I had no idea there was a thread for the NBA basketball games last night.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:43 PM  

skwerl: accelerus: Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?

This makes me wonder how those guys on "to catch a predator" can get multiple years worth of hard prison time, along with a lifetime sex offender status for simply showing up to a house containing NO UNDERAGE GIRLS.

I fully realize in both example - the guys are scum, but getting a slap on the wrist for doing the crime, and then getting your life taken away for thinking about doing the crime... wow.

How long till we see these guys in the news again for raping someone after they are out of juvenile? I'd love to see some hard data on the probability of a sexual offender doing a repeat offense X number of years after caught.

Why not just make a rule that says "if you are convicted of rape, you will have your junk cut off, and be put in a hard labor camp for 20 years -- or we hang out, your choice"  Sure it sounds harsh... but anyone who would actually rape someone isn't someone that should be allowed to take up space in what otherwise might be a good society.


First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

Besides, the 'list' is a farce. Sex is a natural animal instinct practiced by every single living organism on earth. There are a few twisted individuals who overstep the bounds of accepted human decency but far too many are wrongly tattooed with the Scarlet Letter on their foreheads for life. 16 year old kids have hormones raging. All three of them got drunk and fell victim to natural human instinct.


She was unconscious, and the boys bragged about raping her, using the word "rape" numerous times. Please tell me how she did anything to initiate or consent to the sex.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:03 PM  

mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x725]


Awww, the rapist wants his mummy, poor fella.

I'm betting these guys will have their records automatically wiped when either they turn 18 or get out of juvi. Just a harmless childhood prank gone wrong, after all. Just like my cousin who had his record wiped at that age. He's now in on a 50 year sentence for running a B&E ring. His own parents have written the parole board asking he not be released as they don't want to be held responsible by the community. But yeah, just turn these mischievous little tykes loose on the world in a few years.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:09 PM  

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


Then its good there was a spotlight. This kind of shiaat went down when I was in HS a 20 years ago and so highly doubt this situation is some kind of anomaly. I hope this case sends a message to entitled assholes and their apologist parents and coaches.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:41 PM  

bulldg4life: Quaker: So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.

I'm sure you have a great argument...but it is pointless in a thread where the victim was shown to be completely unconscious.


I haven't really been following this story, so in this context then you're right it's irrelevant. I was just responding to what seems to be an assertion that people aren't responsible for their drunken decisions.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:44 PM  
Popular Opinion:

these days it seems kids that do what they want based on whether they think they can get away with it, not on whether it is right or wrong.

I know the rest of your post is a brilliant concern troll, but we need to face some facts here.  This isn't a 'kids these days' situation.  Everyone tries to get away with everything everywhere they can since the dawn of time.

Of course we should also look into the fact that this same 'get away with anything' included witness intimidation by Anonymous . .  .
 
2013-03-17 12:02:53 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

[media.comicvine.com image 300x456]


Don't forget Dean Martin.
*hic*
 
2013-03-17 12:03:15 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.


She was totally asking for it, right?
 
2013-03-17 12:03:40 PM  
this is all about some nerd not allowing the football players the pussy they deserve
 
2013-03-17 12:03:44 PM  
Lot of Republicans in this thread, I see.

Too bad CPAC is over, these boys would have been a big hit on stage, they are apparently conservative heroes.
 
2013-03-17 12:04:25 PM  
Both Mays and the 16-year-old Richmond have been ordered to avoid contact with the victim until they're 21.

That's good. She should be over it by then.
 
2013-03-17 12:04:26 PM  

SundaesChild: The My Little Pony Killer: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?

It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.

She wasn't just drunk.  She was unconscious for a lot of it.  Hence them calling her "dead."  Sex with an unconscious person is rape, since they can't consent (not even drunkenly).


Yeah. She was raped.

Then on January 1, KnightSec released an extremely disturbing video featuring members of the self-proclaimed "rape crew" from the night of the attack, making jokes about what had happened.

The star of the video, identified as former Steubenville High School baseball player Michael Nodianos, cracks himself up with lines like "She is so raped," and  "They raped her quicker than Mike Tyson!"
When someone else in the video interrupts and asks Nodianos, "What if that was your daughter?" he replies, "But it isn't."


http://www.policymic.com/articles/21878/big-red-football-anonymous-l ea ks-disturbing-video-in-steubenville-rape-case
 
2013-03-17 12:04:31 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.


If by "girlfriend" you mean your "right hand", then I would imgaine you are. Look, you're a farking half-wit internet troll. You get off on being an asshole and pissing off random strangers on the internet. I can't believe someone whose life is so empty that they derive their life's enjoyment through being coonts to random strangers is going to have much, if anything, positive going on in their life. You don't have a girlfriend. You don't have a car. You don't have a home outside of the 8x5 dungeon that your parents have resentfully allowed you to stake out in exchange for not having the most glaring example of their failure breathing heavily through his mouth at the breakfast table. Of course, you'll try to come up with something clever or contrived but will fail and make a deriviative insult that you've read by someone more clever than yourself. That is what's expected. You're a dumb animal and I understand what happens when you provoke a stupid animal, but I'm just glad that we can get this out there. I'm glad that even as you use those giant sausages to pound out another moronic ode to public education and inbred genetics intellect, you realize that there are a lot of people out there that see you for who you are and will not take a moment beyond a quiet chuckle when this cruel isolative existence leads up to the inevitable conclusior of you chewing down a barrel full of buckshot.
 
2013-03-17 12:05:34 PM  

Mistymtnhop: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

She was sixteen! Drunk or not. Sixteen.


And they were 16 and 17.

Your point?
 
2013-03-17 12:06:11 PM  

Quaker: I haven't really been following this story, so in this context then you're right it's irrelevant. I was just responding to what seems to be an assertion that people aren't responsible for their drunken decisions.


Well, obviously. As you mentioned, we have laws that hold people accountable for their actions while drunk. However, we also have a clearly defined limit, too.

But, as I said, you probably don't want to start making that argument in this thread lest people believe you are discussing this case.
 
2013-03-17 12:06:51 PM  

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Nobody likes double standards, but arguing in any way that those boys didn't rape that girl is absurd. Amusingly, I expect they will be passed around a bit without consenting as well. I bet they will consider such activity to be rape after that.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:09 PM  
Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:28 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.


^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone
 
2013-03-17 12:07:46 PM  

jaytkay: Lot of Republicans in this thread, I see.

Too bad CPAC is over, these boys would have been a big hit on stage, they are apparently conservative heroes.


Only if they were white and there was a rape baby conceived.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:49 PM  

Quaker: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.


Did you follow the story? It doesn't sound like it.

I don't make the laws. In Ohio (where I live), wasted and unconscious  16 year old girls are off limits. Is it a double standard? Ask the lawmakers, not me.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:57 PM  

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


USA USA USA!
 
2013-03-17 12:08:06 PM  
That shiat hole town is so divided on this, I don't see how that girl and her family can keep living there. And when those creeps get out of "Juvie," it won't be hard to avoid each other.
 
2013-03-17 12:08:26 PM  

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


What??
 
2013-03-17 12:09:00 PM  

adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.


I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.
 
2013-03-17 12:09:03 PM  

skwerl: First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her.


It's not that simple.  Read up on the case, it's flat out disgusting what they did to her.
 
2013-03-17 12:09:22 PM  

Altitude5280: That shiat hole town is so divided on this, I don't see how that girl and her family can keep living there. And when those creeps get out of "Juvie," it won't be hard to avoid each other.


She lives across the river in West Virginia.
 
2013-03-17 12:09:31 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

[media.comicvine.com image 300x456]


I beg  to differ with you.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-17 12:09:36 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: If you fail to conduct yourself properly around individuals who have the potential to do you harm then you have placed yourself at great risk. Indeed alcohol and most other popular narcotics are looseners of social inhibitions.

Keep your head straight.

Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again... But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?


Assigning partial responsibility is done in civil litigation and on Fark.  Criminal trials don't work that way.
 
2013-03-17 12:10:11 PM  
Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone



Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.
 
2013-03-17 12:10:33 PM  

ChuDogg: InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.


[l.yimg.com image 850x725]

Yup. You're a moron.


And the white kid got a longer sentence.

Reverse racism!!1!
 
2013-03-17 12:10:53 PM  

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone


There are a lot of them in here today. Apparently, getting raped while unconscious isn't brutal and she needs to get over it. And it's just nature/evolution that made them all have sex so we can't blame them for giving in to their natural urges.

/excuse me while i vomit in disgust.
 
2013-03-17 12:11:00 PM  

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Doubtful.


At that third party, the girl could not walk on her own and vomited several times before toppling onto her side, several witnesses testified. Mays then tried to coerce the girl into giving him oral sex, but the girl was unresponsive, according to the player who videotaped Mays and the girl.

Richmond was behind her, with his hands between her legs, penetrating her with his fingers, a witness said.


"I tried to tell Trent to stop it," another athlete, who was Mays's best friend, testified. "You know, I told him, 'Just wait - wait till she wakes up if you're going to do any of this stuff. Don't do anything you're going to regret.' "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-c as e-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html?pagewanted=all&_r= 0
 
2013-03-17 12:11:19 PM  

yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?


Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.
 
2013-03-17 12:11:36 PM  
Finally, the messages showed Mr. Mays pleading with the girl not to press charges because it would damage his football career

Holy shiat, this guy isn't even 18 and he's already a huge sociopath. Lock him up and throw away the key, he'll only get worse as he gets older.
 
2013-03-17 12:11:59 PM  

SundaesChild: Altitude5280: That shiat hole town is so divided on this, I don't see how that girl and her family can keep living there. And when those creeps get out of "Juvie," it won't be hard to avoid each other.

She lives across the river in West Virginia.


In a van?
 
2013-03-17 12:12:27 PM  

Madbassist1: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.

Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/


Said snippets:
The teenage girl testified Saturday that she could not recall what happened the night of the attack but remembered waking up naked in a strange house after drinking at a party. The girl said she recalled drinking, leaving the party holding hands with Mays and throwing up later. When she woke up, she said she discovered her phone, earrings, shoes, and underwear were missing, she testified.

"It was really scary," she said. "I honestly did not know what to think because I could not remember anything."

The girl said she believed she was assaulted when she later read text messages among friends and saw a photo of herself taken that night, along with a video that made fun of her and the alleged attack. She said she suspected she had been drugged because she couldn't explain being as intoxicated as defense witnesses have said she was.

...  The two girls testified they were angry at the accuser because she was drinking heavily at the party and rolling around on the floor. They said they tried unsuccessfully to get her to stop drinking.


Yeah, clearly your quotes around "victim" are warranted, and you're not a pro-rape sociopath.

/oh, wait... yes, you are.
 
2013-03-17 12:12:30 PM  

bulldg4life: Quaker: I haven't really been following this story, so in this context then you're right it's irrelevant. I was just responding to what seems to be an assertion that people aren't responsible for their drunken decisions.

Well, obviously. As you mentioned, we have laws that hold people accountable for their actions while drunk. However, we also have a clearly defined limit, too.

But, as I said, you probably don't want to start making that argument in this thread lest people believe you are discussing this case.


There's a clearly defined limit of intoxication beyond which we don't hold people accountable for their actions?

And people won't get the wrong idea about what I said if they bother to read the quote to which it was in response. If they don't then it's their error, so I'm ok with that.
 
2013-03-17 12:12:33 PM  

Trixie212: My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys.


Go read some details about the case.  Seriously.
 
2013-03-17 12:12:49 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Popular Opinion:

these days it seems kids that do what they want based on whether they think they can get away with it, not on whether it is right or wrong.

I know the rest of your post is a brilliant concern troll, but we need to face some facts here.  This isn't a 'kids these days' situation.  Everyone tries to get away with everything everywhere they can since the dawn of time.

Of course we should also look into the fact that this same 'get away with anything' included witness intimidation by Anonymous . .  .


i can't speak for everyone, but i wasn't raised like that.
i either thought santa claus or some higher power would know everything i did, and that i would be punished for all sins eventually.
 
2013-03-17 12:13:11 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


You can never, ever, ever blame the victim.  What kind of person are you to suggest that an individual should rely on their own self awareness and not repeatedly put themselves into situations where they are likely to suffer harm over a period of days/weeks?
 
2013-03-17 12:13:22 PM  
skwerl:
First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

That much is clear. You could have just stopped here. But you didn't...

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

The girl was unconscious. They took videos of her, dragging her around
by her toneless arms and legs and even calling her a "dead body" throughout. Why in the hell should she get put on a sexual predators' list for life? What the fark is your problem? Oh yeah, you have no knowledge of this case. Your opinion which is "based on generalities" is pretty moronic and scary, nonetheless.
 
2013-03-17 12:13:41 PM  
We're gonna need a table of putting-what-into-who's-where is and is not rape.
 
2013-03-17 12:14:14 PM  

Bender The Offender: Popcorn Johnny: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.

If by "girlfriend" you mean your "right hand", then I would imgaine you are. Look, you're a farking half-wit internet troll. You get off on being an asshole and pissing off random strangers on the internet. I can't believe someone whose life is so empty that they derive their life's enjoyment through being coonts to random strangers is going to have much, if anything, positive going on in their life. You don't have a girlfriend. You don't have a car. You don't have a home outside of the 8x5 dungeon that your parents have resentfully allowed you to stake out in exchange for not having the most glaring example of their failure breathing heavily through his mouth at the breakfast table. Of course, you'll try to come up with something clever or contrived but will fail and make a deriviative insult that you've read by someone more clever than yourself. That is what's expected. You're a dumb animal and I understand what happens when you provoke a stupid animal, but I'm just glad that we can get this out there. I'm glad that even as you use those giant sausages to pound out another moronic ode to public education and inbred genetics intellect, you realize that there are a lot of people out there that see you for who you are and will not take a moment beyond a quiet chuckle when this cruel isolative existence leads up to the inevitable conclusior of you chewing down a barrel full of buckshot.


What the fark did you just farking say about me, you little biatch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fark out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my farking words. You think you can get away with saying that shiat to me over the Internet? Think again, farker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're farking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shiat. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your farking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shiat fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're farking dead, kiddo.
 
2013-03-17 12:14:14 PM  

arbitterm: It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.


Even though they're minors, their names and faces have been plastered all over the news. This will follow them for a loooong time.
 
2013-03-17 12:14:44 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?
 
2013-03-17 12:14:49 PM  
Popular Opinion:

i can't speak for everyone, but i wasn't raised like that.
i either thought santa claus or some higher power would know everything i did, and that i would be punished for all sins eventually.


Weirdo.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:10 PM  

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.


I don't say this lightly, but you in no way should be a parent or be allowed to have any say in the ethical upbringing of children. Jesus christ, you're the reason women are afraid to come forward about being raped and are afraid to say no.

In no way is she responsible for what they forcibly did to her. She didn't consent, she didn't ask for it, she just got drunk. People get drunk all the time. By your reasoning, any woman out drinking should expect and accept that they might get raped, and it's their fault if it happens for making bad choices.

Even if the girl was a "train wreck," that doesn't justify anything. Many girls are seen as "sluts" and "train wrecks," but that doesn't mean they have a welcome mat over their vagina when they are passed out. I'm honestly disgusted that you find any fault with her at all.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:11 PM  

yelmrog: Trixie212: My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys.

Go read some details about the case.  Seriously.


I've been reading the details for several days. I never said the boys weren't guilty. They are, without a doubt.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:17 PM  

adamgreeney: The prosecutor, in my opinion, dropped the ball because they were afraid pushing for a harsher sentence would be tossed out due to the culture of the town and the ridiculous bias towards the kids and the football team. They deserve more, but they didn't get it. At least they got put away for a while.


I'm not a lawyer, but the legal analysts were saying that to get juveniles convicted as an adult with any kind of success rate you either need to show them as career criminals (repeat offenders) or really cold blooded farkers.  The entire assault was 6 hours, but not really something you could break into multiple occurrences so repeat offender was out.  For the cold blooded thing, the kids were drunk and being cheered on by the crowd.  While that doesn't excuse the rape, it makes it hard to paint them as cold blooded scum.  The defense will just come back with young, dumb, and drunk morons whose handle should be handled by a juvenile court (and you only have to convince part of a jury to hang it).

I was thinking about it as a juror and trying them as an adult would be a bit of an uphill battle.  The prosecutors were bringing in other witnesses who performed acts but were given immunity and all that.  So it would be a bit of a hard sell to say "Well these guys get to walk, these guys in the video we're not even going after, but these two, we want to try them as adults."  If you're going to cherry pick out two people from the entire group of juvenile scum and argue these two alone deserve to go up the river as adults, you better have something good on them.  Supposedly the prosecutors were having trouble getting people to testify, so I can see why they might want to play it a bit safe.

/really justice would be making the kids pay massive restitution to cover the girl's therapy bills
 
2013-03-17 12:15:44 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.


No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:46 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.


Good point. Why aren't we talking about the REAL victims in this story, some hypothetical male victims?

Any attention given to this real, actual, female victim does a grave injustice to those hypothetical boys. I am glad you are here to set our priorities straight.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:59 PM  
Putting your fingers inside the school whore who is drunk is considered rape now?

an insult to true victims out there.
 
2013-03-17 12:16:09 PM  

farkplug: The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent?


If bragging about getting sex from a drunk chick was a crime, most of the men in America would be locked up.
 
2013-03-17 12:16:30 PM  

Quaker: There's a clearly defined limit of intoxication beyond which we don't hold people accountable for their actions?


Well, yes. That's why drunk girls can have sex, but unconscious blacked out girls can be raped. See, there's a limit to where "being drunk" isn't enough of an excuse. We just discussed this two posts ago.

Quaker: And people won't get the wrong idea about what I said if they bother to read the quote to which it was in response. If they don't then it's their error, so I'm ok with that.


Hey, boss, just trying to help.
 
2013-03-17 12:16:46 PM  

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.


Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?
 
2013-03-17 12:16:56 PM  

Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.


So are people responsible for their actions when they're drunk, or are they not?
 
2013-03-17 12:17:50 PM  

Mistymtnhop: She was sixteen! Drunk or not. Sixteen.


This is going to come as a shock to you, but the age of consent in a majority of states, including Ohio, is 16.
 
2013-03-17 12:18:25 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


What are you, Indian?
 
2013-03-17 12:18:31 PM  

Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?


Nope, men just biologically can't help themselves. Their dicks are magnetically attracted to drunk, unconscious girls. They can't be blamed! It's HER fault! Sheesh.

I love how every example the actor is the drunk making choices that affect them, except for the rape one which is simply slut shaming. Awesome.
 
2013-03-17 12:19:07 PM  

WhippingBoy: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

So are people responsible for their actions when they're drunk, or are they not?


Depends on genitalia.

If you're an innie?  No.

Outie?  You're responsible for your own behavior and the behavior of any and all drunk innies you come into contact with.  They don't know any better, so you must protect them.
 
2013-03-17 12:19:30 PM  

adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I don't say this lightly, but you in no way should be a parent or be allowed to have any say in the ethical upbringing of children. Jesus christ, you're the reason women are afraid to come forward about being raped and are afraid to say no.

In no way is she responsible for what they forcibly did to her. She didn't consent, she didn't ask for it, she just got drunk. People get drunk all the time. By your reasoning, any woman out drinking should expect and accept that they might get raped, and it's their fault if it happens for making bad choices.

Even if the girl was a "train wreck," that doesn't justify anything. Many girls are seen as "sluts" and "train wrecks," but that doesn't mean they have a welcome mat over their vagina when they are passed out. I'm honestly disgusted that you find any fault with her at all.


You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand
 
2013-03-17 12:20:14 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?


Keep digging. The more you talk, the more people see you for what you are.
 
2013-03-17 12:20:21 PM  

adamgreeney: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

There are a lot of them in here today. Apparently, getting raped while unconscious isn't brutal and she needs to get over it. And it's just nature/evolution that made them all have sex so we can't blame them for giving in to their natural urges.

/excuse me while i vomit in disgust.


There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.

However - given eye witness testimony, the subsequent memory loss, and being unconscious - it's certainly plausible that she was drugged. Medical experts said that her behavior, loss of control, and unresponsiveness was consistent with many popular date rape drugs and the memory loss was very telling - but there's no chemical evidence collected to suggest that it happened.

It also appears that this girl isn't the only one with memory loss. There were some anonymous accounts in which a few other girls awoke to find themselves partially disrobed - with no memory. The victim and her family started to receive death threats and were bullied online. No one else came forward to say they were victims despite there being pictures of other girls passed out partially disrobed. Either the other girls wanted to lie about potentially being raped and then thought better of it or they were actually potentially raped and decided not to come forward.

This is all very . . . tragic.
 
2013-03-17 12:20:45 PM  

adamgreeney: I love how every example the actor is the drunk making choices that affect them, except for the rape one which is simply slut shaming. Awesome.


Hey, at least she didn't ask to use free condoms!
 
2013-03-17 12:20:46 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.
 
2013-03-17 12:20:48 PM  

Quaker: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.


Drunk is bad.  But unconscious is unacceptable.  I prefer my women awake when we start.  Maybe in a near coma, drooling, babbling incoherently and having lost all motor control when we finish.  The first prime requisite for consensual sex should always be that she KNOWS she's having sex.  Not just suspects it the next day.
 
2013-03-17 12:21:00 PM  

Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?


You're way off base here.

What the fark is an affirmative actor?  In no way did I denounce the guilty for giving in to their temptation.

I just believe that people are foolish and naive in mindset to believe that it's society's obligation to take care of them when they put themselves into bad situations.  The world is not a nice and gentle place.  There are predators out there and if you choose to intoxicate yourself because you believe otherwise you shouldn't be surprised when you get attacked.
 
2013-03-17 12:21:31 PM  

Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand


Because when you are the one being penetrated you are never to blame
 
2013-03-17 12:21:38 PM  

arbitterm: It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.


I see you're not alone here with your misbelief, but sex offenders registries were never created to be punative measures.
 
2013-03-17 12:21:47 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?


No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.
 
2013-03-17 12:22:39 PM  

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


She was passed out. Passed out people can't rape.
 
2013-03-17 12:22:46 PM  

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?

Keep digging. The more you talk, the more people see you for what you are.


How could I survive losing face to the kind of people follow you?
 
2013-03-17 12:22:58 PM  
Awkward High School Reunion Is the name of the band that should play at this class's 5 year high school reunion.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:24 PM  

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.


she got drunk and passed out. True this was irresponsible. But I hardly think being ganged raped is a natural consequence of passing out. She was irresponsible for getting that drunk, but she hardly deserved for this to happen to her.

I really feel sorry for any daughters being raised by a rapist apologist.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:29 PM  
There is no justice until there is a bullet in each of their heads.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:38 PM  

Dheiner: Hoarseman: Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.

These outcomes suggests that it at least partially insulates you from them.

I don't know about that.  If there wasn't the football player aspect, would anonymous have even noticed?  Tell me you don't think that this was the only rape to occur last year, please.  I still,sadly, think far too many rapes go unreported, and very much plea bargained away.


Well, Anonymous is not the law so they aren't really relevant. Lots of rapes are ignored, but the point remains that the punishment does not fit the crime. Could there be other reasons? Sure, but given the area and the history of the football program in the region, especially given the way the rapists defenders sought to protect them, strongly suggests that football played an important role.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:42 PM  
At least they've been outed on the Internet, so no suppression of juvenile records is going to keep future schools/employers/girlfriends from knowing exactly who they are dealing with.  That may be a bigger punishment than the year or so in juvie.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:52 PM  

yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.


The only choice made in any of the above examples was the choice to get blitzed.  Everything that happens after the fact is proprietary.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:10 PM  

Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.


Not to mention the moniker of "rape crew" that these guys were known by prior to the event.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:28 PM  
adamgreeney:

No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.

No, I am pointing out the fact that you should not walk in a room of dangerous individuals without protecting yourself.  But again, please go on about how in your limited white knight mind the concept of nullification of responsibility exists for women who decide to drink to excess in a dangerous location.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:29 PM  

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


Having sex with a drunk woman is not necessarily rape. Being intoxicated doesn't make you incapable of giving consent unless you're actually passed out or incoherent, as seems to be the case here.

Why is it that if a man and woman, both equally drunk, agree to have sex, you believe only the man is guilty of rape? I've never understood how people can claim to be feminists/egalitarians and yet not see how obviously degrading this double standard is for women. To say that intoxicated women are unable to give consent but intoxicated men are just perpetuates the stereotype that women are weak, need protection, and lack autonomy.

I used to work in law enforcement and I can tell you that we frequently had to explain to women that being pestered into having sex or having sex when you're drunk and regretting it the next day is NOT rape. The only time someone is too inebriated to give consent is when they're literally too inebriated to give consent, as in unable to express consent verbally or otherwise. A woman can be blackout drunk, stumbling and falling over, and still consent to sex as long as she's coherent enough to express that consent. I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand.

I remember once where we actually apprehended a group of marines for supposedly "raping" some dependent spouse while her service-member was deployed. One of them had a cell phone video depicting her engaged in obviously consensual sex with this group of marines. I won't go into too much detail, but suffice to say it's hard to scream "Give it to me devil dogs!" with a mouthful of cock. Showing her the video, explaining to her that she was a lying whore, and charging her for the false report were deeply satisfying.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:43 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.


No, it *IS* assault regardless of the gender. These kind of assholes should be held responsible for their actions no matter WHO they terrorize.

I hope the parents of these kids are shamed daily by the people around them for letting their kids turn out this way. "Precious Snowflake" my ass.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:49 PM  

Musikslayer: Quaker: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.

Did you follow the story? It doesn't sound like it.

I don't make the laws. In Ohio (where I live), wasted and unconscious  16 year old girls are off limits. Is it a double standard? Ask the lawmakers, not me.


I haven't been following this case but I wasn't saying it's relevant here. I just read your post that called drunken consent an oxymoron. So for the purposes of this discussion, what the law says is irrelevant. You're capable of forming an opinion about whether or not something is a double standard and whether or not that double standard is justifiable, so tell me what you think. The lawmakers (theoretically) work for you, so what you think is more important anyway.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:54 PM  
Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand


Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.
 
2013-03-17 12:26:24 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Because when you are the one being penetrated you are never to blame


I'm not sure that helps much.
 
2013-03-17 12:27:12 PM  

yelmrog: Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.


The problem with alcohol is that is significantly affects your decision making abilities.

Again, do we hold people responsible for their actions when under the influence of an intoxicating substance, or do we not?
 
2013-03-17 12:27:20 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?

Keep digging. The more you talk, the more people see you for what you are.

How could I survive losing face to the kind of people

who follow you?

I don't follow Theaetetus at all. I think he/she is a monumental dick. I also believe he/she is right on the money when charactirizing you as a sociopathic rapist apologist.
 
2013-03-17 12:28:42 PM  

yelmrog: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.

Not to mention the moniker of "rape crew" that these guys were known by prior to the event.


This.
 
2013-03-17 12:28:50 PM  

Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.


There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."
 
2013-03-17 12:28:56 PM  
The chick was drunk and had a history of getting drunk. Her friend tried to stop her from leaving with the guys and she got mean and took a swing at her friend. The morning after, she was only upset about not being able to find her cell phone. She only went balls out claiming rape after the picture and video started making the rounds on the internet.

The dudes were assholes, but that doesn't make them rapists.
 
2013-03-17 12:29:52 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.

No, I am pointing out the fact that you should not walk in a room of dangerous individuals without protecting yourself.  But again, please go on about how in your limited white knight mind the concept of nullification of responsibility exists for women who decide to drink to excess in a dangerous location.


No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?
 
2013-03-17 12:30:21 PM  

95BV5: arbitterm: It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.

I see you're not alone here with your misbelief, but sex offenders registries were never created to be punative measures.


And transvaginal ultrasounds were never intended to discourage abortions.
 
2013-03-17 12:30:28 PM  

adamgreeney: Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?


because... football?
 
2013-03-17 12:30:57 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: farkplug:

The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent?

If bragging about getting sex from a drunk chick was a crime, most of the men in America would be locked up.

Sexually assaulting a "chick" so drunk that she's completely passed out with a bunch of your buds and bragging about it by text with a bunch of your buds is what passes for "getting sex", these days? Oh, most-of-the-men-in-America, you sexy Lotharios, you!
 
2013-03-17 12:31:08 PM  

WhippingBoy: yelmrog: Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.

The problem with alcohol is that is significantly affects your decision making abilities.

Again, do we hold people responsible for their actions when under the influence of an intoxicating substance, or do we not?


The point I'm making is that I believe there are no victims when alcohol and drugs involved.  There can still be guilty parties, but there are no victims.
 
2013-03-17 12:31:20 PM  

adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.


Again... She became too intoxicated to be in control of herself.  I feel no sympathy for someone who is going to put themselves in harms way and then suffers a likely consequence of their actions.
 
2013-03-17 12:32:10 PM  

adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.


I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.
 
2013-03-17 12:32:42 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: jso2897:

Why would we draw the line a rape? Why hold anyone criminally responsible for what they do to drunken people? If somebody is too drunk to stop me beating their ass and taking their wallet - don't blame me!
Lame.


[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

If you fail to conduct yourself properly around individuals who have the potential to do you harm then you have placed yourself at great risk.  Indeed alcohol and most other popular narcotics are looseners of social inhibitions.

Keep your head straight.

Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again...  But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?


Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.
 
2013-03-17 12:32:49 PM  
adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.
 
2013-03-17 12:33:59 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

Again... She became too intoxicated to be in control of herself.  I feel no sympathy for someone who is going to put themselves in harms way and then suffers a likely consequence of their actions.


So rape is ok if they are passed out? They are fair game for anyone who walks by? I think this says a lot about how you get laid.

She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape. Rape is never, at any point, acceptable behavior. Sorry, but it isnt.
 
2013-03-17 12:34:03 PM  

tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.


They're minors. Too bad they can't be sentenced to a real prison though, where "No" means nothing.
 
2013-03-17 12:34:56 PM  

cawingcrow: At least they've been outed on the Internet, so no suppression of juvenile records is going to keep future schools/employers/girlfriends from knowing exactly who they are dealing with.  That may be a bigger punishment than the year or so in juvie.


Yep.  These two convicts are permanently shiatlisted.  So is everyone whose names came out.

If only there was a way to change one's legal name.
 
2013-03-17 12:34:58 PM  
jso2897:

Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.

I enjoy seeing the hackles get raised whenever someone is held accountable for their actions.  Of course it is usually just the same two or three who come out but it provides for some fun interactions on the most drunken day of the year.

Personally I'm going to go out and rape a leprechaun today.  It feels right.
 
2013-03-17 12:35:53 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.



You, sir, are a monster.

People are inherently good at heart and this is a helpful and caring world.  We instinctively look out for each other, that's what we do - we're humans.  It's not our responsibility to lookout for ourselves.  We're evolved beyond that.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:10 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: The only choice made in any of the above examples was the choice to get blitzed.  Everything that happens after the fact is proprietary.


Oh wow.  I'm just going to back away from this one.  You're absolutely nuts, friendo.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:14 PM  

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.


How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.


They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:23 PM  
Wow there is a good flame war here. I didn't keep up with this one so I haven't a clue whether there was rape or whether it was "girl pissed that there was pics and changed her mind about being consentual after the fact"
 
2013-03-17 12:36:23 PM  
adamgreeney:

So rape is ok if they are passed out? They are fair game for anyone who walks by? I think this says a lot about how you get laid.

She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape. Rape is never, at any point, acceptable behavior. Sorry, but it isnt.


In a perfect world?  Yes.

As we live in an imperfect world with people who rape?  No.

But please, attempt the classic ad hominems.  It is quite fun to feel your impotent rage seething through your posts.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:37 PM  
captainmaxthedestroyer:

The point I'm making is that I believe there are no victims when alcohol and drugs involved.  There can still be guilty parties, but there are no victims.

Thanks, I'll make sure to pass on your point to my uncle the next time I see him, which isn't that often these days, because he's been in a funk ever since his only child (my cousin) got hit by a drunk driver. DON'T YOU DARE CALL HIM A VICTIM, THOUGH! He was merely a "participant", if you will, in the unfolding of an evening of a guilty alcoholic's trip behind the wheel one night last summer.

Right, riiiiiight.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:52 PM  

Mistymtnhop: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

She was sixteen! Drunk or not. Sixteen.


16 isn't actually that young; I remember being 16. Seems a lot of people forget.

I'm not defending what these shiatheads did in any way (obviously; it was deplorable), but we have to get out of this mindset that people under 18 (or whatever arbitrary age) are innocent, clueless children.
 
2013-03-17 12:37:12 PM  
Another negro gets put in a cage where he belongs.  What a shocker.
 
2013-03-17 12:38:23 PM  
You'll get over it.
 
2013-03-17 12:38:30 PM  

yelmrog: Not to mention the moniker of "rape crew" that these guys were known by prior to the event.


Seriously?   That's as dumb as writing a bank robbery demand on the back of your pre-printed deposit slip!
 
2013-03-17 12:38:55 PM  
You have got to love the cult of sports.  We dangle a carrot in front of our children's faces of million dollar celebrity status jobs, and select based purely on physical abilities.  Save for few examples, most sports involve little to no intellectual abilities.  Thats not to say some sports aren't less intellectual than others - looking at you football.  Many football players take pride in being called "meatheads" in the U.S.,  they actually celebrate being dumb, and they are the ones for some reason being pruned for careers as multi-millionaires, or at the very least ushered through an easy path to a (squandered) college education.  And we have been doing this for generations.

As for the legal end of things I don't see why we don't look at rape in a similar light as how we look at murder.  I think theres pretty universal acceptance from people of all walks of life that murder warrants harsh punishment, it should not be tolerated in society what-so-ever.  Is rape that far off from murder?  I don't think so.  This is an act that has the potential to permanently alter the emotional health of someone.  But from the perspective of punishing individuals, in the case of both rape and murder alike, great caution should be taken to avoid instances where an innocent person is punished.  If we let our prejudices get in the way, even if they are sort of valid - many football players are total asshole people - we run the risk of taking one act of injustice and replacing it with another.
 
2013-03-17 12:39:07 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


If you're sober in a bar and disagree with a drunk, something bad is likely going to happen to you, too.

That's because alcohol and violence go hand-in-hand. Getting your feelings hurt is not justification for assault.
 
2013-03-17 12:39:50 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.

There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."


It's like you only read a portion of my post...

No. The evidence is the timeline of events pieced together by eye witness testimony. Yes - she ingested alcohol. She likely ingested a significant portion of it. However - eye witness testimony does one helluva job suggesting that maybe she ingested a little more than alcohol. It's certainly plausible - and something that the police never ruled out in the case. They simply had insufficient evidence to establish it.

But given that there were a handful of other accounts in which girls woke up partially disrobed with memory loss is certainly interesting. There's one particular instance in which someone was posting anonymous comments online speculating that she could have been a victim. She said that she doesn't like the taste of beer so she only had one - one that she didn't finish. And that's all she could remember. She woke up almost entirely naked the next day. That's the ultimate light weight.

She also never came forward and gave her testimony to the police - but is that really surprising?

Who the hell knows what happened? Certainly not you or I. But let's not attribute the entire evening to alcohol - especially given the amount of questions surrounding the night's events.
 
2013-03-17 12:39:59 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

So rape is ok if they are passed out? They are fair game for anyone who walks by? I think this says a lot about how you get laid.

She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape. Rape is never, at any point, acceptable behavior. Sorry, but it isnt.

In a perfect world?  Yes.

As we live in an imperfect world with people who rape?  No.

But please, attempt the classic ad hominems.  It is quite fun to feel your impotent rage seething through your posts.


You're right, it is not a perfect world. No one is saying it is. But that doesn't make those that are raped, murdered, robbed, etc at fault for the behavior of others. The kids should know, as most people do, that rape is not acceptable. I'm assuming you agree with that right? The girl couldn't know that these guys thought gang rape was their idea of a fun night out, so how did she share any responsibility? Should all women just assume men are going to rape them at any given moment? Because i think that's a little bit of projection on your part, since I can't think of a single male I know personally that would behave like this.
 
2013-03-17 12:40:12 PM  

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Yes.

We live in a very messed up culture. I present the fact a good portion of comments in this thread don't think these guys did anything wrong as evidence of how messed up our society is in raising young men.
 
2013-03-17 12:40:16 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: digital manipulation while intoxicated.


It looks like you misspelled "rape".
 
2013-03-17 12:40:17 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: jso2897:

Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.
---------------
I enjoy seeing the hackles get raised whenever someone is held accountable for their actions.  Of course it is usually just the same two or three who come out but it provides for some fun interactions on the most drunken day of the year.

Personally I'm going to go out and rape a leprechaun today.  It feels right.


Careful, you might get raped by a drunken reveller. Or get run over and killed by one. They won't be responsible, because they're drunk. Have fun!
 
2013-03-17 12:40:23 PM  

adamgreeney: She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape.


Why are you being so helpful to rapists?
 
2013-03-17 12:40:34 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: jso2897:

Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.

I enjoy seeing the hackles get raised whenever someone is held accountable for their actions.  Of course it is usually just the same two or three who come out but it provides for some fun interactions on the most drunken day of the year.

Personally I'm going to go out and rape a leprechaun today.  It feels right.


You don't ever want to rape a leprechaun - it's bad luck, like raping a midget, or spraying graffiti on a mime.
 
2013-03-17 12:40:35 PM  

adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.


Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.
 
2013-03-17 12:40:36 PM  

farkplug: captainmaxthedestroyer:

The point I'm making is that I believe there are no victims when alcohol and drugs involved.  There can still be guilty parties, but there are no victims.

Thanks, I'll make sure to pass on your point to my uncle the next time I see him, which isn't that often these days, because he's been in a funk ever since his only child (my cousin) got hit by a drunk driver. DON'T YOU DARE CALL HIM A VICTIM, THOUGH! He was merely a "participant", if you will, in the unfolding of an evening of a guilty alcoholic's trip behind the wheel one night last summer.

Right, riiiiiight.


You are missing context.  If both drivers were drinking, there would be no victim (unless there was a sober passenger) but they would still both be guilty.  What happened to your cousin was indeed a tragedy and they were indeed a victim.

You're supporting my point, thank you.
 
2013-03-17 12:41:26 PM  
captainmaxthedestroyer:

You, sir, are a monster.

People are inherently good at heart and this is a helpful and caring world.  We instinctively look out for each other, that's what we do - we're humans.  It's not our responsibility to lookout for ourselves.  We're evolved beyond that.


Sadly this is what a lot of people believe.  The world is not some bright, sunny drum circle... It has its points of light and darkness.  We must be aware and protect ourselves as we go through life.  I used to do work with refugees from (country I won't name because it would date me) in (again, won't).  They understood this idea clearly having come from a terrible place, and acted accordingly.  But again this is America, where we must indulge every impulse immediately, and expect others to keep us safe from harm if we decide to overindulge because we are all a great big brotherhood.

Of course one of the defendants would have been strung up in Steubenville 50 years ago if he happened to glance at the victim, but that is neither here nor there.
 
2013-03-17 12:42:08 PM  

adamgreeney: InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.

No, I am pointing out the fact that you should not walk in a room of dangerous individuals without protecting yourself.  But again, please go on about how in your limited white knight mind the concept of nullification of responsibility exists for women who decide to drink to excess in a dangerous location.

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?


"morality" is not genetically passed on, it is learned. imho
the super-ego (that which keeps the ID's primal urges in check to fit into society's rules and expectations), much be nurtured and cultivated.

nice shows like leave it to beaver used to reinforce this in children sitting in front of TVs all day.

now kids are molded by bill clinton, bart simpson and other delinquents. is it any surprise how they turn out?
 
2013-03-17 12:42:47 PM  

Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.

There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."

It's like you only read a portion of my post...

No. The evidence is the timeline of events pieced together by eye witness testimony. Yes - she ingested alcohol. She likely ingested a significant portion of it. However - eye witness testimony does one helluva job suggesting that maybe she ingested a little more than alcohol. It's certainly plausible - and something that the police never ruled out in the case. They simply had insufficient evidence to establish it.

But given that there were a handful of other accounts in which girls woke up partially disrobed with memory loss is certainly interesting. There's one particular instance in which someone was posting anonymous comments online speculating that she could have been a victim. She said that she doesn't like the taste of beer so she only had one - one that she didn't finish. And that's all she could remember. She woke up almost entirely naked the next day. That's the ultimate light weight.

She also never came forward and gave her testimony to the police - but is that really surprising?

Who the hell knows what happened? Certainly not you or I. But let's not attribute the entire evening to alcohol - especially given the amount of questions surrounding the night's events.


Which is why *I* am not engaging in unfounded speculation.
 
2013-03-17 12:42:58 PM  

tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.


People like you are why I think people should choose judges over juries. Seriously "enjoy getting raped?"... you think raping 16 year olds is ok, but only the ones who did bad things? Torture, violence, and rape are why we get such a high recidivism rate... morons like you get giddy with the thought of prison being a hellscape that grooms better criminals, then wonder why the prisoners are so vindictive towards society at large when they get out... more often than hot though, asshats like you don't wonder that, you just hyper-simplify complex problems with statements like "if you didn't wanna get raped and stabbed, you shouldn't have broken the law" without ever thinking just how much of a Saudi Arabian tool that makes you sound like.

The reality is you sick farks support Sharia law and you don't even know it.
 
2013-03-17 12:43:07 PM  
I started college young, so when I was her age I was starting my freshman year.  And drinking hard for the first time.  I didn't really know what my limits were.  So that first week, I went to a party, drank a lot of beer, and started flirting with a guy (an athlete).  I even told him where I lived.  And then on the way back to my dorm later, by myself, I decided it would be a good idea to take a nap on the steps of a building.  Along came that same guy -- pretty drunk himself -- woke me up, got me back on my feet, and walked me all the way to my room where he could hand me off safely to my roommate.

Just remember -- people always have options.  Any one of us can always help someone who needs help.

 It's not "understandable" they did this, it's not "her bad judgment," that's at fault -- it's their shiatty upbringings.  And apparently those of everyone at that party.
 
2013-03-17 12:43:24 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?

You're way off base here.

What the fark is an affirmative actor?


Hi, welcome to English 101. Today, we'll talk about the difference between passive voice, in which an actor is implied, and active voice, in which an actor is explicitly present and acts. For example...
Passive voice: "I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you."
Active voice: "I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that a rapist will rape you."

Notice the difference? In one, there's a rapist who rapes, and in the other, something "happens" to the subject.

Now, why is this important? Because with passive voice, the sentence only includes the subject or victim... meaning that you imply that only the victim has any control over the rape "happening". With active voice, we recognize instead that there's another person, the rapist, who really is the one with control over whether rape occurs or not.

More importantly, it destroys the logic of the sentence - if there's a rapist who wants to rape you, it's irrelevant whether you're shiat-faced and passed out. Those only matter for whether some jackasses think you deserved it or not.

That was our class for today. I hope you took notes, because there will be a test tomorrow.

In no way did I denounce the guilty for giving in to their temptation.

No, you explicitly didn't mention the existence of the guilty party.
Plus, "giving in to their temptation" attempts to relieve them of blame. It wasn't their fault, they just have weak will! Nice.
 
2013-03-17 12:43:27 PM  

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


You're assuming that if she had been able to say no, they would have stopped. Do you know that if she said no or not? And if she had, would that have made her not responsible? Could she have fought off the group of guys if she had tried to leave?

You're finding any reason to blame her even though you have no idea how or if she could have stopped it from happening. Unless your contention is that all girls should stay at home unless accompanied by an adult male chaperon. . .
 
2013-03-17 12:44:47 PM  

95BV5: arbitterm: It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.

I see you're not alone here with your misbelief, but sex offenders registries were never created to be punative measures.


With their history, a quick Google will reveal their crimes to any future potential employers, dates, etc.   That is a good thing.  I do wish that the prosecution had fought to have them tried as adults before a jury.  I still cannot believe that nobody at any of these parties didn't try to stop the abuse.  One witness was on record as telling them it was wrong and they should stop, but nobody physically tried to stop them.
 
2013-03-17 12:44:47 PM  

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


Yeah. Those darned rape victims are always to blame for not knowing that they're drinking with rapists.

It's almost as if these rape victims feel like they have a right to not be raped.
 
2013-03-17 12:44:53 PM  

WhippingBoy: The problem with alcohol is that is significantly affects your decision making abilities.

Again, do we hold people responsible for their actions when under the influence of an intoxicating substance, or do we not?


The law usually does, yes.  And it's probably a good thing, because otherwise the "I was drunk, your honor" defense would come up everywhere.
 
2013-03-17 12:45:30 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: I used to do work with refugees from (country I won't name because it would date me)


Upper Peru?  I bet it was Upper Peru.  You ARE old!
 
2013-03-17 12:45:32 PM  

Guess_Who: Putting your fingers inside the school whore who is drunk is considered rape now?

an insult to true victims out there.


Yes, when someone is so drunk that they cant even stand up, and you penetrate them either digitally or with your genitals, it is rape, regardless of who that person is or how much you deride them as being a whore.

Glad we could clear that up.
 
2013-03-17 12:45:38 PM  

Oldiron_79: Wow there is a good flame war here. I didn't keep up with this one so I haven't a clue whether there was rape or whether it was "girl pissed that there was pics and changed her mind about being consentual after the fact"


It was interesting to watch it evolve.  It started out anger over the sentencing, which was understandable isn't really worth having a flamewar over since you can only convict based on what charges were filed.  Now we've moved into this odd area where a 16 year old girl who got drunk at teenage party is being held chided by some for not knowing how to hold her liquor and there are some odd side comments about college girls at frat parties and all that which seems like apples to oranges.
 
2013-03-17 12:45:45 PM  

bulldg4life: Quaker: There's a clearly defined limit of intoxication beyond which we don't hold people accountable for their actions?

Well, yes. That's why drunk girls can have sex, but unconscious blacked out girls can be raped. See, there's a limit to where "being drunk" isn't enough of an excuse. We just discussed this two posts ago.


If someone is unconscious then they're not physically capable of giving consent, so there is no action for which to hold them accountable in the first place. I'm talking about the original reference to "drunken consent".
 
2013-03-17 12:46:06 PM  

firefly212: tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.

People like you are why I think people should choose judges over juries. Seriously "enjoy getting raped?"... you think raping 16 year olds is ok, but only the ones who did bad things? Torture, violence, and rape are why we get such a high recidivism rate... morons like you get giddy with the thought of prison being a hellscape that grooms better criminals, then wonder why the prisoners are so vindictive towards society at large when they get out... more often than hot though, asshats like you don't wonder that, you just hyper-simplify complex problems with statements like "if you didn't wanna get raped and stabbed, you shouldn't have broken the law" without ever thinking just how much of a Saudi Arabian tool that makes you sound like.

The reality is you sick farks support Sharia law and you don't even know it.


It's more of a fantasy than a reality anyway. Life in the joint is far more mundane than the middle class male imagines it to be - actually, the boredom is the worst part by a huge margin.
 
2013-03-17 12:46:12 PM  
Was the team the SteubenvilleStuds?

//obscure
 
2013-03-17 12:46:36 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.

There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."

It's like you only read a portion of my post...

No. The evidence is the timeline of events pieced together by eye witness testimony. Yes - she ingested alcohol. She likely ingested a significant portion of it. However - eye witness testimony does one helluva job suggesting that maybe she ingested a little more than alcohol. It's certainly plausible - and something that the police never ruled out in the case. They simply had insufficient evidence to establish it.

But given that there were a handful of other accounts in which girls woke up partially disrobed with memory loss is certainly interesting. There's one particular instance in which someone was posting anonymous comments online speculating that she could have been a victim. She said that she doesn't like the taste of beer so she only had one - one that she didn't finish. And that's all she could remember. She woke up almost entirely naked the next day. That's the ultimate light weight.

She also never came forward and gave her testimony to the police - but is that really surprising?

Who the hell knows what happened? Certainly not you or I. But let's not attribute the entire evening to alcohol - especially given the amount of questions surrounding the night's events.

Which is why *I* am not engaging in unfounded speculation.


Except that anyone completely attributing this night to alcohol is engaging in unfounded speculation.

I'm not saying drugs were involved - but certainly police that the possibility existed. It just could not be proven.
 
2013-03-17 12:46:53 PM  

adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.

You're assuming that if she had been able to say no, they would have stopped. Do you know that if she said no or not? And if she had, would that have made her not responsible? Could she have fought off the group of guys if she had tried to leave?

You're finding any reason to blame her even though you have no idea how or if she could have stopped it from happening. Unless your contention is that all girls should stay at home unless accompanied by an adult male chaperon. . .


No, I don't know that and you don't know what all she said either.

Sometimes, people just have to agree to disagree. I feel one way. You feel another. The world is going to keep turning.
 
2013-03-17 12:47:08 PM  
I think women and victims in general carry a lot of responsibility not to put themselves in harm's way, but it is responsibility to themselves...not legal responsibility. No female rape victim ever forced a man's penis into her and no mugging victim ever forced a perp's knife to his or her throat. If I leave my car unlocked, do you really want the law to side with the car thief because that's how it sounds? there's criminal responsibility and moral responsibility. Victim shaming is abhorrent. These people have to live with their traumas for the rest of their lives and I'm sure they are fully aware of how their decisions placed them in harm's way.

But if you rape forgiving dumb shiats want to be all about personal responsibility, accept that rapists (and car thieves and muggers) made their decisions and now they have to accept the consequences. In this case, the girl was unconscious, there were witnesses, and there was photographic evidence...so the facts and the source of criminal responsibility should not really be in question.

For those of you upset that women can dress slutty and then turn you down, well, I'm sure a nice cat lady will come along some day.
 
2013-03-17 12:48:19 PM  
adamgreeney:

You're right, it is not a perfect world. No one is saying it is. But that doesn't make those that are raped, murdered, robbed, etc at fault for the behavior of others. The kids should know, as most people do, that rape is not acceptable. I'm assuming you agree with that right? The girl couldn't know that these guys thought gang rape was their idea of a fun night out, so how did she share any responsibility? Should all women just assume men are going to rape them at any given moment? Because i think that's a little bit of projection on your part, since I can't think of a single male I know personally that would behave like this.

And you deal with a very specific class of male.  I know several guys I wouldn't trust in a room with a drunken woman and so I don't invite them to parties.  I deal with them as I must due to work or social activities, but wouldn't let them into a location where a vulnerable individual is located.  I also know plenty of guys who would hold them in check by any means necessary, and those are the people I associate with, let into my home, drink beers with while watching a match or just hanging out at the bar.

Anyone has the ability to perform horrible acts.  You believe we have evolved, I know by personal experience that we are a few days without power or food away from savagery.  I get that your life is comfortable in comparison to 99% of the world's population... You have a computer to argue with me on. But if you went to some of the places I have gone, or dealt with the groups I have?  You would have a bit better understanding of the human condition beyond puppies, rainbows, and social justice.

There's good and evil in every man, woman, and child.  Events both inexplicable and completely normal will affect them in ways that you or I cannot judge.  And so I treat any person with the kind of knowledge of danger that I would treat a wild animal, a found firearm, or any other potentially dangerous instrument.
 
2013-03-17 12:48:45 PM  

monty666: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

Wow man, you were really upright back then. It's good you've loosened up.


So he's uptight because he didn't think raping an unconscious girl was a fun thing to do on Saturday night.

What the fark is wrong with you?
 
2013-03-17 12:48:51 PM  

office_despot: I started college young, so when I was her age I was starting my freshman year.  And drinking hard for the first time.  I didn't really know what my limits were.  So that first week, I went to a party, drank a lot of beer, and started flirting with a guy (an athlete).  I even told him where I lived.  And then on the way back to my dorm later, by myself, I decided it would be a good idea to take a nap on the steps of a building.  Along came that same guy -- pretty drunk himself -- woke me up, got me back on my feet, and walked me all the way to my room where he could hand me off safely to my roommate.

Just remember -- people always have options.  Any one of us can always help someone who needs help.

 It's not "understandable" they did this, it's not "her bad judgment," that's at fault -- it's their shiatty upbringings.  And apparently those of everyone at that party.


And a lot of the people in Steubenville, it seems.  For generations, if we believe Traci Lords.
 
2013-03-17 12:49:28 PM  
I see that this is one of those threads where I have to set up an Automator script for "click 'ignore' button, enter 'blames the rape victim' as comment, click submit".

Jesus Christ, some of you people.
 
2013-03-17 12:49:50 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: InitialCommentGuy: I used to do work with refugees from (country I won't name because it would date me)

Upper Peru?  I bet it was Upper Peru.  You ARE old!


Damn you unicorn...

When I'm done with the leprechaun...