If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Justice delivered: two members of the high school football team that is the pride of Steubenville were found guilty of raping a drunken 16-year-old girl   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 772
    More: News, Ohio, found guilty, football team  
•       •       •

12536 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2013 at 11:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



772 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-03-17 11:26:16 AM
No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."
 
2013-03-17 11:26:47 AM
Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.
 
2013-03-17 11:27:00 AM
Is it Justice or Just Ass?
 
2013-03-17 11:27:50 AM
THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

media.comicvine.com
 
2013-03-17 11:28:26 AM

tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.


They're going to juvie, which while not good, is far from what they deserved.
 
2013-03-17 11:28:29 AM

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.
 
2013-03-17 11:29:44 AM
Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.
 
2013-03-17 11:30:05 AM
How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.
 
2013-03-17 11:30:34 AM
This comment blocked by the administrator.
 
2013-03-17 11:30:45 AM

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


How dare people be properly tried under the law as juveniles!
 
2013-03-17 11:30:48 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:


BTW didnt she start out underage, illegally?

/preemptive chris hansen.jpg
 
2013-03-17 11:30:52 AM
Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.
 
2013-03-17 11:31:18 AM
HURRRRRRR I'm Submitter and I have OPINIONS!111one!1
 
2013-03-17 11:31:20 AM
so where will they be playing their college ball?

/my money's on "the U" or notre dame...
 
2013-03-17 11:32:03 AM

ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.


The judge did.
 
2013-03-17 11:32:13 AM

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


At least one year of juvenile prison, though both can be held till they're 21.  Trent Mays gets an additional 1 year for use of a minor in nudity material, which is to be served right after his rape sentence.

Such BS
 
2013-03-17 11:32:19 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:


I thought it was a drunken Italian crooner.
 
2013-03-17 11:32:26 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-17 11:32:49 AM

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.
 
2013-03-17 11:32:49 AM

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


The judge did.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:03 AM

ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.


They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.  And it's not 'date' rape asshat. It's rape. They even CALLED it such on the video they made. And the adults who were involved in the cover up following the rape will be very fortunate if they don't face federal prosecution.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:30 AM
It's not real "justice" justice. The legal system has a way of shutting that thing down when they turn 21.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:33 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-17 11:33:36 AM

jso2897: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

The judge did.


Caffeine deprivation posting fail. Reply to wrong post.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:48 AM
Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.
 
2013-03-17 11:33:54 AM

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


I hope they can look forward to a lifetime of "Sex offender" registration.
 
2013-03-17 11:34:33 AM
I wouldn't have even heard of it, had Anonymous not gotten involved.
 
2013-03-17 11:34:35 AM
I think we should all keep this in perspective and remember how much this will damage their chances of getting to the state finals next season.
 
2013-03-17 11:35:47 AM

Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.


These outcomes suggests that it at least partially insulates you from them.
 
2013-03-17 11:36:02 AM

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


Unfortunately, they were tried as juveniles, so that's probably what they'll get.
 
2013-03-17 11:36:25 AM
Oh goody. Another Fark rape apologist thread.
 
2013-03-17 11:36:52 AM
I thought football was the other occupation that gave you a pass on any vile behaviour whatsoever?
 
2013-03-17 11:37:03 AM

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


Trolling a thread pertaining to the brutal rape of a child? Stay classy, POS.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:17 AM

Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.


 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:49 AM
Never would have happened in Florida or Texas.

/The conviction, that is.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:52 AM

sgtbarthel: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Trolling a thread pertaining to the brutal rape of a child? Stay classy, POS.


I'd suggest you do some research.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:58 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-17 11:38:07 AM
It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.
 
2013-03-17 11:38:16 AM
Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?

This makes me wonder how those guys on "to catch a predator" can get multiple years worth of hard prison time, along with a lifetime sex offender status for simply showing up to a house containing NO UNDERAGE GIRLS.

I fully realize in both example - the guys are scum, but getting a slap on the wrist for doing the crime, and then getting your life taken away for thinking about doing the crime... wow.

How long till we see these guys in the news again for raping someone after they are out of juvenile? I'd love to see some hard data on the probability of a sexual offender doing a repeat offense X number of years after caught.

Why not just make a rule that says "if you are convicted of rape, you will have your junk cut off, and be put in a hard labor camp for 20 years -- or we hang out, your choice"  Sure it sounds harsh... but anyone who would actually rape someone isn't someone that should be allowed to take up space in what otherwise might be a good society.
 
2013-03-17 11:38:20 AM
Steubenville is a shiathole.
 
2013-03-17 11:39:04 AM

Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.


i28.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-17 11:39:21 AM

Hoarseman: Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.

These outcomes suggests that it at least partially insulates you from them.


I don't know about that.  If there wasn't the football player aspect, would anonymous have even noticed?  Tell me you don't think that this was the only rape to occur last year, please.  I still,sadly, think far too many rapes go unreported, and very much plea bargained away.
 
2013-03-17 11:39:22 AM

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


I associate Steubenville with fundamentalist Catholics and their university there.  Which would explain alot about the morality question and handling of a rape case involving a defendant in a position of power.
 
2013-03-17 11:39:27 AM
Ohio's AG is respnding to the verdicts right now... http://www.newsnet5.com/subindex/news/news_livestream1
 
2013-03-17 11:39:34 AM

Lady Indica: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.  And it's not 'date' rape asshat. It's rape. They even CALLED it such on the video they made. And the adults who were involved in the cover up following the rape will be very fortunate if they don't face federal prosecution.


That's the real key. This conviction paves the way for pretty much the entire school administration to do decades in prison.
 
2013-03-17 11:39:34 AM
Weren't the internet white knight brigades worked up that some kids were giggling on camera and were not being charged as well?  As far as I can tell the two kids were being charged and facing justice since the beginning.

Though I found it hilarious when that photo surfaced of some random kid sitting down and they circled on the picture  a .22 rifle that was on the ground behind his chair, as this was proof he needed to go to jail or something
 
2013-03-17 11:39:56 AM

Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.


You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...
 
2013-03-17 11:40:00 AM

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


I'm sure they consider themselves an upright Christian god-fearing community.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:03 AM
Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:38 AM

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


Wow man, you were really upright back then. It's good you've loosened up.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:41 AM

Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual


Oxymoron, dumbass.
 
2013-03-17 11:40:54 AM
Almost to the end of the page and nobody is crying about how they were already tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion?  Good.

/society SHOULD look down on rapist scum
 
2013-03-17 11:41:09 AM
Good.
 
2013-03-17 11:41:29 AM
Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...
 
2013-03-17 11:41:54 AM

Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.


Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.
 
2013-03-17 11:41:56 AM

accelerus: Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?


Only if you are a minor. And they will be doing at least a year, possibly 4 or 5.
 
2013-03-17 11:41:59 AM

mikaloyd:


They should make him wear his sweater best in prison. He would be the belle of the ball.
 
2013-03-17 11:42:02 AM

sgtbarthel: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Trolling a thread pertaining to the brutal rape of a child? Stay classy, POS.


Brutal rape? She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal. This chick didn't deserve for these guys to touch her in any way but what she went through was hardly brutal.
 
2013-03-17 11:42:28 AM

ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.


Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:03 AM

Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.


Tell me of your homeworld.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:03 AM
"...have been sentenced to at least one year in juvenile jail."

Justice was not served. 1 year in juvie is a slap on the wrist. These monsters need to be in prison, gen pop. You can make sangria in a turlet. Of course it's shanked or be shanked.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:06 AM
By the way, the posting of Tracy earlier is sadly appropriate.  Last night she said she was raped by a 14 year old Steubenvillian when she was 10.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:27 AM

monty666: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

Wow man, you were really upright back then. It's good you've loosened up.


HA!
 
2013-03-17 11:43:49 AM

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?


It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:50 AM

ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.


Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.
 
2013-03-17 11:43:53 AM
Hooray! Rape celebration!

Fark is awesome!
 
2013-03-17 11:44:12 AM

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Given the whole recording thing, the guys were clearly much less impaired, so this case doesn't work that way.  When you're doing a bit of amateur video work on the side, you have a hard time credibly arguing you couldn't provide consent.
 
2013-03-17 11:44:35 AM

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.
 
2013-03-17 11:44:38 AM
Could you have chosen a more pissweak light-on-facts news story if you tried? The comments section alludes to so much more. Very frustrating.
 
2013-03-17 11:45:07 AM

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Let's put that argument in context. You get shiatfaced in a bar, walk out the back door into tha alley by mistake, where a large hoodlum, who is also shiatfaced, smashes your head in and relieves you of your watch, wallet, and anal virginity. Would you hold him to be your victim, as well?
 
2013-03-17 11:45:16 AM

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


Well, shiat...we all know how unreliable eye witnesses are.  Unless there's DNA and videotape evidence, we can't be sure of guilt.  So let's let out all the prisoners with less than that as evidence out.  Your rapey jock buddies can go free along with most of the other guys!
 
2013-03-17 11:45:30 AM

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


You did notice that one of them is not white, right?
 
2013-03-17 11:45:51 AM

Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.


Anyone know for certain how the law views this?  I was under the impression that it was if you were passed out drunk.  If you were inebriated that was a different matter.
 
2013-03-17 11:46:21 AM
Good lord this thread got off to a wonderful start.

I've got to say, trolling a teenage rape thread on a sunday morning is a new one on Fark, I've got to believe.
 
2013-03-17 11:46:25 AM

monty666: mikaloyd:

They should make him wear his sweater best in prison. He would be the belle of the ball.


In most States you would be correct. In Ohio they respect sweater vests no matter hat.
 
2013-03-17 11:46:42 AM

Lionel Mandrake: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

Well, shiat...we all know how unreliable eye witnesses are.  Unless there's DNA and videotape evidence, we can't be sure of guilt.  So let's let out all the prisoners with less than that as evidence out.  Your rapey jock buddies can go free along with most of the other guys!


They never proved Charlie Manson killed anybody - let's cut him loose!
 
2013-03-17 11:46:44 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole


Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.
 
2013-03-17 11:48:06 AM

adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.


Again, the prosecutor did not file at such a level as to push them into "tried as an adult territory".  What the crime was is irrelevant at this stage, the judge can only sentence based on what the prosecutors got convictions on.  The prosecutors went after them as juveniles who committed the act at a party, not as adults who were sociopath scum.  They were sentenced as such.
 
2013-03-17 11:48:36 AM
oukewldave: Rape is never OK

Unless you play football in college. Then it's expected, the college and the courts will do everything they can to cover it up, to suppress witnesses, and to intimidate the accusers into leaving the state.
 
2013-03-17 11:48:36 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?

It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.


She wasn't just drunk.  She was unconscious for a lot of it.  Hence them calling her "dead."  Sex with an unconscious person is rape, since they can't consent (not even drunkenly).
 
2013-03-17 11:48:53 AM

jso2897: Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.


What are you on about? I'm not following you.
 
2013-03-17 11:48:55 AM
Wow, they start training to be NFL players earlier every year.
 
2013-03-17 11:49:02 AM

VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."


So, when they try to apply for college or pursue careers.  The juvenile justice system can't do more than put them away until they're 21.
 
2013-03-17 11:49:30 AM

InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.


Why would we draw the line a rape? Why hold anyone criminally responsible for what they do to drunken people? If somebody is too drunk to stop me beating their ass and taking their wallet - don't blame me!
Lame.
 
2013-03-17 11:49:31 AM
Hopefully they have to register as a sex offender for life after this.
 
2013-03-17 11:49:57 AM
Trixie212:
You did notice that one of them is not white, right?

Silly Trixie... This is Ohio!  Obviously all perpetrators of rape are evil white males!

Law and Order told me so.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:31 AM

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.



l.yimg.com

Yup. You're a moron.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:36 AM

sobe: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

I'm sure they consider themselves an upright Christian god-fearing community.


nobody who truly fears god would do such a thing.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:36 AM

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:41 AM

ha-ha-guy: adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.

Again, the prosecutor did not file at such a level as to push them into "tried as an adult territory".  What the crime was is irrelevant at this stage, the judge can only sentence based on what the prosecutors got convictions on.  The prosecutors went after them as juveniles who committed the act at a party, not as adults who were sociopath scum.  They were sentenced as such.


Also the one thing is the minimum as some of the better articles on this case mention.  They could very well be in until their 21 depending on how future hearings go.  You want them in after 21 though?  Talk to the prosecutor about why he didn't charge as an adult.
 
2013-03-17 11:50:46 AM

Madbassist1: jso2897: Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.

What are you on about? I'm not following you.


I'm not surprised.
 
2013-03-17 11:51:06 AM

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.
 
2013-03-17 11:51:29 AM

Kentucky Fried Children: Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

BTW didnt she start out underage, illegally?

/preemptive chris hansen.jpg


She was 16 in her first porno.  Only in the last one  was she of legal age.

Recently, she claimed that she and her mother were raped by Steubenville thugs.
 
2013-03-17 11:52:03 AM

mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]


Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?
 
2013-03-17 11:52:16 AM

ginandbacon: Oh goody. Another Fark rape apologist thread.


I dunno, up until this point I have been pleasantly surprised. Thanks for being sensible people, most of yez!
 
2013-03-17 11:52:24 AM

Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.


Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too
 
2013-03-17 11:52:30 AM
Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.
 
2013-03-17 11:52:39 AM

ha-ha-guy: adamgreeney: ha-ha-guy: VenomousDuck: No, justice will be delivered if they receive a sentence that isn't "spend a few years in juvenile detention and don't ever do this again."

One of them is 16, the other is 17.  Like it or not, one date rape is not enough to get you into "tried as an adult" territory.

Yes, yes it is. And it wasn't "date rape." It was rape. And they bragged about it, took photos and took pride in what they did. That is absolutely the behavior of a sociopath.

Again, the prosecutor did not file at such a level as to push them into "tried as an adult territory".  What the crime was is irrelevant at this stage, the judge can only sentence based on what the prosecutors got convictions on.  The prosecutors went after them as juveniles who committed the act at a party, not as adults who were sociopath scum.  They were sentenced as such.


While that is true, it doesn't make what they did or the outcome any better. If your wife was hit by a drunk by a drunk driver and he only got charged with involuntary manslaughter, does that make her less dead that if it was a murder charge?

The prosecutor, in my opinion, dropped the ball because they were afraid pushing for a harsher sentence would be tossed out due to the culture of the town and the ridiculous bias towards the kids and the football team. They deserve more, but they didn't get it. At least they got put away for a while.
 
2013-03-17 11:52:49 AM

Quaker: So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.


I'm sure you have a great argument...but it is pointless in a thread where the victim was shown to be completely unconscious.
 
2013-03-17 11:52:58 AM
jso2897:

Why would we draw the line a rape? Why hold anyone criminally responsible for what they do to drunken people? If somebody is too drunk to stop me beating their ass and taking their wallet - don't blame me!
Lame.



i1.ytimg.com

If you fail to conduct yourself properly around individuals who have the potential to do you harm then you have placed yourself at great risk.  Indeed alcohol and most other popular narcotics are looseners of social inhibitions.

Keep your head straight.

Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again...  But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?
 
2013-03-17 11:53:37 AM

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


You might want to examine those pictures of the defendants a LITTLE more closely there, Sparky.
 
2013-03-17 11:53:54 AM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.


Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/
 
2013-03-17 11:55:28 AM

jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too


I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".
 
2013-03-17 11:55:34 AM

bulldg4life: Good lord this thread got off to a wonderful start.

I've got to say, trolling a teenage rape thread on a sunday morning is a new one on Fark, I've got to believe.


Did you catch the 'all black people are criminals' thread from last night?  The very people you expect to show up in that thread didn't even bother being indirect in their racism.
 
2013-03-17 11:55:35 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-17 11:56:26 AM

jso2897: Madbassist1: jso2897: Rape is a logical consequence of getting drunk? I could see saying that about a terrible hangover - but I'm not sure about that rape thing.

What are you on about? I'm not following you.

I'm not surprised.


Ha ha. way to (continue) to obfuscate. Let me explain it in small words for ya. What do logical consequences have to do with this...at all? Why bring it up? Is there any use to this supposed angle? Or are you just stringing words together hoping no one will notice you're an idiot?
 
2013-03-17 11:57:00 AM

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Shes female...and everyone knows women cant be guilty of rape.
 
2013-03-17 11:57:10 AM

Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college Steelers.

 
2013-03-17 11:58:05 AM

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


these days it seems kids that do what they want based on whether they think they can get away with it, not on whether it is right or wrong.

they learned from bill clinton, and america's decision that he could be president, even if he abused women and used his power and position to take what he wants.
 
2013-03-17 11:58:35 AM

accelerus: Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?

This makes me wonder how those guys on "to catch a predator" can get multiple years worth of hard prison time, along with a lifetime sex offender status for simply showing up to a house containing NO UNDERAGE GIRLS.

I fully realize in both example - the guys are scum, but getting a slap on the wrist for doing the crime, and then getting your life taken away for thinking about doing the crime... wow.

How long till we see these guys in the news again for raping someone after they are out of juvenile? I'd love to see some hard data on the probability of a sexual offender doing a repeat offense X number of years after caught.

Why not just make a rule that says "if you are convicted of rape, you will have your junk cut off, and be put in a hard labor camp for 20 years -- or we hang out, your choice"  Sure it sounds harsh... but anyone who would actually rape someone isn't someone that should be allowed to take up space in what otherwise might be a good society.



First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

Besides, the 'list' is a farce. Sex is a natural animal instinct practiced by every single living organism on earth. There are a few twisted individuals who overstep the bounds of accepted human decency but far too many are wrongly tattooed with the Scarlet Letter on their foreheads for life. 16 year old kids have hormones raging. All three of them got drunk and fell victim to natural human instinct.
 
2013-03-17 11:58:57 AM

Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".


I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.
 
2013-03-17 11:59:45 AM

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Unlikely. Even if that were true then they should be placed in a home for the criminally insane and not left to wander around amongst normal peple doing things "their way"
 
2013-03-17 11:59:53 AM

Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.


She was sixteen! Drunk or not. Sixteen.
 
2013-03-17 12:00:12 PM

Polyhazard: ginandbacon: Oh goody. Another Fark rape apologist thread.

I dunno, up until this point I have been pleasantly surprised. Thanks for being sensible people, most of yez!


Your ignore list must be more up-to-date than mine.
 
2013-03-17 12:00:16 PM

ChuDogg: InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.


[l.yimg.com image 850x725]

Yup. You're a moron.


Williams?
 
2013-03-17 12:00:47 PM
It's really high time to start doing this North Korea style.

Where would we have to start, and which parts of the Constitution need to be put through the shredder in order to make verdicts such as these more.......publicly violent?
 
2013-03-17 12:00:52 PM

Big Ramifications: Could you have chosen a more pissweak light-on-facts news story if you tried? The comments section alludes to so much more. Very frustrating.


Came to say pretty much this.  The NYT has a nice reprise of the trial.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:26 PM
So who provided the liquor to this young lady at the party anyway?
 
2013-03-17 12:01:27 PM

Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.


Ok nm. They're douchebags.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:28 PM

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


I sort of can't stand when people say "nobody here knows... what happened". Did you not pay attention to the trial? The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent? Lock the rapists up! And to think she thought of him as a trusted friend, but he continued to play her even afterward. What an asshole. Poor girl.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:31 PM
What about the dick on the video? Shouldn't he be tried? If for nothing less than his lame jokes. He just sat there and played to the video and did shiat. If ever there was was punchable, that prick is it.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:39 PM

GAT_00: Did you catch the 'all black people are criminals' thread from last night?


I had no idea there was a thread for the NBA basketball games last night.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:43 PM

skwerl: accelerus: Wow - so you can rape a minor and only have to do a year in jail?

This makes me wonder how those guys on "to catch a predator" can get multiple years worth of hard prison time, along with a lifetime sex offender status for simply showing up to a house containing NO UNDERAGE GIRLS.

I fully realize in both example - the guys are scum, but getting a slap on the wrist for doing the crime, and then getting your life taken away for thinking about doing the crime... wow.

How long till we see these guys in the news again for raping someone after they are out of juvenile? I'd love to see some hard data on the probability of a sexual offender doing a repeat offense X number of years after caught.

Why not just make a rule that says "if you are convicted of rape, you will have your junk cut off, and be put in a hard labor camp for 20 years -- or we hang out, your choice"  Sure it sounds harsh... but anyone who would actually rape someone isn't someone that should be allowed to take up space in what otherwise might be a good society.


First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

Besides, the 'list' is a farce. Sex is a natural animal instinct practiced by every single living organism on earth. There are a few twisted individuals who overstep the bounds of accepted human decency but far too many are wrongly tattooed with the Scarlet Letter on their foreheads for life. 16 year old kids have hormones raging. All three of them got drunk and fell victim to natural human instinct.


She was unconscious, and the boys bragged about raping her, using the word "rape" numerous times. Please tell me how she did anything to initiate or consent to the sex.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:03 PM

mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x725]


Awww, the rapist wants his mummy, poor fella.

I'm betting these guys will have their records automatically wiped when either they turn 18 or get out of juvi. Just a harmless childhood prank gone wrong, after all. Just like my cousin who had his record wiped at that age. He's now in on a 50 year sentence for running a B&E ring. His own parents have written the parole board asking he not be released as they don't want to be held responsible by the community. But yeah, just turn these mischievous little tykes loose on the world in a few years.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:09 PM

InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.  If they dealt drugs it would have been probation at worst.  They only ended up with the Juvi sentence because of the national spotlight put on the case.


Then its good there was a spotlight. This kind of shiaat went down when I was in HS a 20 years ago and so highly doubt this situation is some kind of anomaly. I hope this case sends a message to entitled assholes and their apologist parents and coaches.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:41 PM

bulldg4life: Quaker: So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.

I'm sure you have a great argument...but it is pointless in a thread where the victim was shown to be completely unconscious.


I haven't really been following this story, so in this context then you're right it's irrelevant. I was just responding to what seems to be an assertion that people aren't responsible for their drunken decisions.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:44 PM
Popular Opinion:

these days it seems kids that do what they want based on whether they think they can get away with it, not on whether it is right or wrong.

I know the rest of your post is a brilliant concern troll, but we need to face some facts here.  This isn't a 'kids these days' situation.  Everyone tries to get away with everything everywhere they can since the dawn of time.

Of course we should also look into the fact that this same 'get away with anything' included witness intimidation by Anonymous . .  .
 
2013-03-17 12:02:53 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

[media.comicvine.com image 300x456]


Don't forget Dean Martin.
*hic*
 
2013-03-17 12:03:15 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.


She was totally asking for it, right?
 
2013-03-17 12:03:40 PM
this is all about some nerd not allowing the football players the pussy they deserve
 
2013-03-17 12:03:44 PM
Lot of Republicans in this thread, I see.

Too bad CPAC is over, these boys would have been a big hit on stage, they are apparently conservative heroes.
 
2013-03-17 12:04:25 PM
Both Mays and the 16-year-old Richmond have been ordered to avoid contact with the victim until they're 21.

That's good. She should be over it by then.
 
2013-03-17 12:04:26 PM

SundaesChild: The My Little Pony Killer: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?

It honestly doesn't matter if the guys were drunk too. She was drunk, that's all you need for the act to no longer be consensual.

She wasn't just drunk.  She was unconscious for a lot of it.  Hence them calling her "dead."  Sex with an unconscious person is rape, since they can't consent (not even drunkenly).


Yeah. She was raped.

Then on January 1, KnightSec released an extremely disturbing video featuring members of the self-proclaimed "rape crew" from the night of the attack, making jokes about what had happened.

The star of the video, identified as former Steubenville High School baseball player Michael Nodianos, cracks himself up with lines like "She is so raped," and  "They raped her quicker than Mike Tyson!"
When someone else in the video interrupts and asks Nodianos, "What if that was your daughter?" he replies, "But it isn't."


http://www.policymic.com/articles/21878/big-red-football-anonymous-l ea ks-disturbing-video-in-steubenville-rape-case
 
2013-03-17 12:04:31 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.


If by "girlfriend" you mean your "right hand", then I would imgaine you are. Look, you're a farking half-wit internet troll. You get off on being an asshole and pissing off random strangers on the internet. I can't believe someone whose life is so empty that they derive their life's enjoyment through being coonts to random strangers is going to have much, if anything, positive going on in their life. You don't have a girlfriend. You don't have a car. You don't have a home outside of the 8x5 dungeon that your parents have resentfully allowed you to stake out in exchange for not having the most glaring example of their failure breathing heavily through his mouth at the breakfast table. Of course, you'll try to come up with something clever or contrived but will fail and make a deriviative insult that you've read by someone more clever than yourself. That is what's expected. You're a dumb animal and I understand what happens when you provoke a stupid animal, but I'm just glad that we can get this out there. I'm glad that even as you use those giant sausages to pound out another moronic ode to public education and inbred genetics intellect, you realize that there are a lot of people out there that see you for who you are and will not take a moment beyond a quiet chuckle when this cruel isolative existence leads up to the inevitable conclusior of you chewing down a barrel full of buckshot.
 
2013-03-17 12:05:34 PM

Mistymtnhop: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

She was sixteen! Drunk or not. Sixteen.


And they were 16 and 17.

Your point?
 
2013-03-17 12:06:11 PM

Quaker: I haven't really been following this story, so in this context then you're right it's irrelevant. I was just responding to what seems to be an assertion that people aren't responsible for their drunken decisions.


Well, obviously. As you mentioned, we have laws that hold people accountable for their actions while drunk. However, we also have a clearly defined limit, too.

But, as I said, you probably don't want to start making that argument in this thread lest people believe you are discussing this case.
 
2013-03-17 12:06:51 PM

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


Nobody likes double standards, but arguing in any way that those boys didn't rape that girl is absurd. Amusingly, I expect they will be passed around a bit without consenting as well. I bet they will consider such activity to be rape after that.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:09 PM
Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:28 PM

InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.


^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone
 
2013-03-17 12:07:46 PM

jaytkay: Lot of Republicans in this thread, I see.

Too bad CPAC is over, these boys would have been a big hit on stage, they are apparently conservative heroes.


Only if they were white and there was a rape baby conceived.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:49 PM

Quaker: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.


Did you follow the story? It doesn't sound like it.

I don't make the laws. In Ohio (where I live), wasted and unconscious  16 year old girls are off limits. Is it a double standard? Ask the lawmakers, not me.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:57 PM

Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.


USA USA USA!
 
2013-03-17 12:08:06 PM
That shiat hole town is so divided on this, I don't see how that girl and her family can keep living there. And when those creeps get out of "Juvie," it won't be hard to avoid each other.
 
2013-03-17 12:08:26 PM

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


What??
 
2013-03-17 12:09:00 PM

adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.


I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.
 
2013-03-17 12:09:03 PM

skwerl: First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her.


It's not that simple.  Read up on the case, it's flat out disgusting what they did to her.
 
2013-03-17 12:09:22 PM

Altitude5280: That shiat hole town is so divided on this, I don't see how that girl and her family can keep living there. And when those creeps get out of "Juvie," it won't be hard to avoid each other.


She lives across the river in West Virginia.
 
2013-03-17 12:09:31 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: THIS is the pride of Steubenville:

[media.comicvine.com image 300x456]


I beg  to differ with you.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-17 12:09:36 PM

InitialCommentGuy: If you fail to conduct yourself properly around individuals who have the potential to do you harm then you have placed yourself at great risk. Indeed alcohol and most other popular narcotics are looseners of social inhibitions.

Keep your head straight.

Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again... But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?


Assigning partial responsibility is done in civil litigation and on Fark.  Criminal trials don't work that way.
 
2013-03-17 12:10:11 PM
Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone



Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.
 
2013-03-17 12:10:33 PM

ChuDogg: InfrasonicTom: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Let's be serious, they are suburban whites.


[l.yimg.com image 850x725]

Yup. You're a moron.


And the white kid got a longer sentence.

Reverse racism!!1!
 
2013-03-17 12:10:53 PM

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone


There are a lot of them in here today. Apparently, getting raped while unconscious isn't brutal and she needs to get over it. And it's just nature/evolution that made them all have sex so we can't blame them for giving in to their natural urges.

/excuse me while i vomit in disgust.
 
2013-03-17 12:11:00 PM

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Doubtful.


At that third party, the girl could not walk on her own and vomited several times before toppling onto her side, several witnesses testified. Mays then tried to coerce the girl into giving him oral sex, but the girl was unresponsive, according to the player who videotaped Mays and the girl.

Richmond was behind her, with his hands between her legs, penetrating her with his fingers, a witness said.


"I tried to tell Trent to stop it," another athlete, who was Mays's best friend, testified. "You know, I told him, 'Just wait - wait till she wakes up if you're going to do any of this stuff. Don't do anything you're going to regret.' "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-c as e-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html?pagewanted=all&_r= 0
 
2013-03-17 12:11:19 PM

yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?


Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.
 
2013-03-17 12:11:36 PM
Finally, the messages showed Mr. Mays pleading with the girl not to press charges because it would damage his football career

Holy shiat, this guy isn't even 18 and he's already a huge sociopath. Lock him up and throw away the key, he'll only get worse as he gets older.
 
2013-03-17 12:11:59 PM

SundaesChild: Altitude5280: That shiat hole town is so divided on this, I don't see how that girl and her family can keep living there. And when those creeps get out of "Juvie," it won't be hard to avoid each other.

She lives across the river in West Virginia.


In a van?
 
2013-03-17 12:12:27 PM

Madbassist1: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.

Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/


Said snippets:
The teenage girl testified Saturday that she could not recall what happened the night of the attack but remembered waking up naked in a strange house after drinking at a party. The girl said she recalled drinking, leaving the party holding hands with Mays and throwing up later. When she woke up, she said she discovered her phone, earrings, shoes, and underwear were missing, she testified.

"It was really scary," she said. "I honestly did not know what to think because I could not remember anything."

The girl said she believed she was assaulted when she later read text messages among friends and saw a photo of herself taken that night, along with a video that made fun of her and the alleged attack. She said she suspected she had been drugged because she couldn't explain being as intoxicated as defense witnesses have said she was.

...  The two girls testified they were angry at the accuser because she was drinking heavily at the party and rolling around on the floor. They said they tried unsuccessfully to get her to stop drinking.


Yeah, clearly your quotes around "victim" are warranted, and you're not a pro-rape sociopath.

/oh, wait... yes, you are.
 
2013-03-17 12:12:30 PM

bulldg4life: Quaker: I haven't really been following this story, so in this context then you're right it's irrelevant. I was just responding to what seems to be an assertion that people aren't responsible for their drunken decisions.

Well, obviously. As you mentioned, we have laws that hold people accountable for their actions while drunk. However, we also have a clearly defined limit, too.

But, as I said, you probably don't want to start making that argument in this thread lest people believe you are discussing this case.


There's a clearly defined limit of intoxication beyond which we don't hold people accountable for their actions?

And people won't get the wrong idea about what I said if they bother to read the quote to which it was in response. If they don't then it's their error, so I'm ok with that.
 
2013-03-17 12:12:33 PM

Trixie212: My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys.


Go read some details about the case.  Seriously.
 
2013-03-17 12:12:49 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Popular Opinion:

these days it seems kids that do what they want based on whether they think they can get away with it, not on whether it is right or wrong.

I know the rest of your post is a brilliant concern troll, but we need to face some facts here.  This isn't a 'kids these days' situation.  Everyone tries to get away with everything everywhere they can since the dawn of time.

Of course we should also look into the fact that this same 'get away with anything' included witness intimidation by Anonymous . .  .


i can't speak for everyone, but i wasn't raised like that.
i either thought santa claus or some higher power would know everything i did, and that i would be punished for all sins eventually.
 
2013-03-17 12:13:11 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


You can never, ever, ever blame the victim.  What kind of person are you to suggest that an individual should rely on their own self awareness and not repeatedly put themselves into situations where they are likely to suffer harm over a period of days/weeks?
 
2013-03-17 12:13:22 PM
skwerl:
First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

That much is clear. You could have just stopped here. But you didn't...

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

The girl was unconscious. They took videos of her, dragging her around
by her toneless arms and legs and even calling her a "dead body" throughout. Why in the hell should she get put on a sexual predators' list for life? What the fark is your problem? Oh yeah, you have no knowledge of this case. Your opinion which is "based on generalities" is pretty moronic and scary, nonetheless.
 
2013-03-17 12:13:41 PM
We're gonna need a table of putting-what-into-who's-where is and is not rape.
 
2013-03-17 12:14:14 PM

Bender The Offender: Popcorn Johnny: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.

If by "girlfriend" you mean your "right hand", then I would imgaine you are. Look, you're a farking half-wit internet troll. You get off on being an asshole and pissing off random strangers on the internet. I can't believe someone whose life is so empty that they derive their life's enjoyment through being coonts to random strangers is going to have much, if anything, positive going on in their life. You don't have a girlfriend. You don't have a car. You don't have a home outside of the 8x5 dungeon that your parents have resentfully allowed you to stake out in exchange for not having the most glaring example of their failure breathing heavily through his mouth at the breakfast table. Of course, you'll try to come up with something clever or contrived but will fail and make a deriviative insult that you've read by someone more clever than yourself. That is what's expected. You're a dumb animal and I understand what happens when you provoke a stupid animal, but I'm just glad that we can get this out there. I'm glad that even as you use those giant sausages to pound out another moronic ode to public education and inbred genetics intellect, you realize that there are a lot of people out there that see you for who you are and will not take a moment beyond a quiet chuckle when this cruel isolative existence leads up to the inevitable conclusior of you chewing down a barrel full of buckshot.


What the fark did you just farking say about me, you little biatch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fark out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my farking words. You think you can get away with saying that shiat to me over the Internet? Think again, farker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're farking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shiat. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your farking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shiat fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're farking dead, kiddo.
 
2013-03-17 12:14:14 PM

arbitterm: It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.


Even though they're minors, their names and faces have been plastered all over the news. This will follow them for a loooong time.
 
2013-03-17 12:14:44 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?
 
2013-03-17 12:14:49 PM
Popular Opinion:

i can't speak for everyone, but i wasn't raised like that.
i either thought santa claus or some higher power would know everything i did, and that i would be punished for all sins eventually.


Weirdo.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:10 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.


I don't say this lightly, but you in no way should be a parent or be allowed to have any say in the ethical upbringing of children. Jesus christ, you're the reason women are afraid to come forward about being raped and are afraid to say no.

In no way is she responsible for what they forcibly did to her. She didn't consent, she didn't ask for it, she just got drunk. People get drunk all the time. By your reasoning, any woman out drinking should expect and accept that they might get raped, and it's their fault if it happens for making bad choices.

Even if the girl was a "train wreck," that doesn't justify anything. Many girls are seen as "sluts" and "train wrecks," but that doesn't mean they have a welcome mat over their vagina when they are passed out. I'm honestly disgusted that you find any fault with her at all.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:11 PM

yelmrog: Trixie212: My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys.

Go read some details about the case.  Seriously.


I've been reading the details for several days. I never said the boys weren't guilty. They are, without a doubt.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:17 PM

adamgreeney: The prosecutor, in my opinion, dropped the ball because they were afraid pushing for a harsher sentence would be tossed out due to the culture of the town and the ridiculous bias towards the kids and the football team. They deserve more, but they didn't get it. At least they got put away for a while.


I'm not a lawyer, but the legal analysts were saying that to get juveniles convicted as an adult with any kind of success rate you either need to show them as career criminals (repeat offenders) or really cold blooded farkers.  The entire assault was 6 hours, but not really something you could break into multiple occurrences so repeat offender was out.  For the cold blooded thing, the kids were drunk and being cheered on by the crowd.  While that doesn't excuse the rape, it makes it hard to paint them as cold blooded scum.  The defense will just come back with young, dumb, and drunk morons whose handle should be handled by a juvenile court (and you only have to convince part of a jury to hang it).

I was thinking about it as a juror and trying them as an adult would be a bit of an uphill battle.  The prosecutors were bringing in other witnesses who performed acts but were given immunity and all that.  So it would be a bit of a hard sell to say "Well these guys get to walk, these guys in the video we're not even going after, but these two, we want to try them as adults."  If you're going to cherry pick out two people from the entire group of juvenile scum and argue these two alone deserve to go up the river as adults, you better have something good on them.  Supposedly the prosecutors were having trouble getting people to testify, so I can see why they might want to play it a bit safe.

/really justice would be making the kids pay massive restitution to cover the girl's therapy bills
 
2013-03-17 12:15:44 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.


No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:46 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.


Good point. Why aren't we talking about the REAL victims in this story, some hypothetical male victims?

Any attention given to this real, actual, female victim does a grave injustice to those hypothetical boys. I am glad you are here to set our priorities straight.
 
2013-03-17 12:15:59 PM
Putting your fingers inside the school whore who is drunk is considered rape now?

an insult to true victims out there.
 
2013-03-17 12:16:09 PM

farkplug: The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent?


If bragging about getting sex from a drunk chick was a crime, most of the men in America would be locked up.
 
2013-03-17 12:16:30 PM

Quaker: There's a clearly defined limit of intoxication beyond which we don't hold people accountable for their actions?


Well, yes. That's why drunk girls can have sex, but unconscious blacked out girls can be raped. See, there's a limit to where "being drunk" isn't enough of an excuse. We just discussed this two posts ago.

Quaker: And people won't get the wrong idea about what I said if they bother to read the quote to which it was in response. If they don't then it's their error, so I'm ok with that.


Hey, boss, just trying to help.
 
2013-03-17 12:16:46 PM

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.


Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?
 
2013-03-17 12:16:56 PM

Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.


So are people responsible for their actions when they're drunk, or are they not?
 
2013-03-17 12:17:50 PM

Mistymtnhop: She was sixteen! Drunk or not. Sixteen.


This is going to come as a shock to you, but the age of consent in a majority of states, including Ohio, is 16.
 
2013-03-17 12:18:25 PM

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


What are you, Indian?
 
2013-03-17 12:18:31 PM

Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?


Nope, men just biologically can't help themselves. Their dicks are magnetically attracted to drunk, unconscious girls. They can't be blamed! It's HER fault! Sheesh.

I love how every example the actor is the drunk making choices that affect them, except for the rape one which is simply slut shaming. Awesome.
 
2013-03-17 12:19:07 PM

WhippingBoy: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

So are people responsible for their actions when they're drunk, or are they not?


Depends on genitalia.

If you're an innie?  No.

Outie?  You're responsible for your own behavior and the behavior of any and all drunk innies you come into contact with.  They don't know any better, so you must protect them.
 
2013-03-17 12:19:30 PM

adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I don't say this lightly, but you in no way should be a parent or be allowed to have any say in the ethical upbringing of children. Jesus christ, you're the reason women are afraid to come forward about being raped and are afraid to say no.

In no way is she responsible for what they forcibly did to her. She didn't consent, she didn't ask for it, she just got drunk. People get drunk all the time. By your reasoning, any woman out drinking should expect and accept that they might get raped, and it's their fault if it happens for making bad choices.

Even if the girl was a "train wreck," that doesn't justify anything. Many girls are seen as "sluts" and "train wrecks," but that doesn't mean they have a welcome mat over their vagina when they are passed out. I'm honestly disgusted that you find any fault with her at all.


You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand
 
2013-03-17 12:20:14 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?


Keep digging. The more you talk, the more people see you for what you are.
 
2013-03-17 12:20:21 PM

adamgreeney: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.

Hypnotiq is not a mind control drug.  It is a shiatty liquor.

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

There are a lot of them in here today. Apparently, getting raped while unconscious isn't brutal and she needs to get over it. And it's just nature/evolution that made them all have sex so we can't blame them for giving in to their natural urges.

/excuse me while i vomit in disgust.


There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.

However - given eye witness testimony, the subsequent memory loss, and being unconscious - it's certainly plausible that she was drugged. Medical experts said that her behavior, loss of control, and unresponsiveness was consistent with many popular date rape drugs and the memory loss was very telling - but there's no chemical evidence collected to suggest that it happened.

It also appears that this girl isn't the only one with memory loss. There were some anonymous accounts in which a few other girls awoke to find themselves partially disrobed - with no memory. The victim and her family started to receive death threats and were bullied online. No one else came forward to say they were victims despite there being pictures of other girls passed out partially disrobed. Either the other girls wanted to lie about potentially being raped and then thought better of it or they were actually potentially raped and decided not to come forward.

This is all very . . . tragic.
 
2013-03-17 12:20:45 PM

adamgreeney: I love how every example the actor is the drunk making choices that affect them, except for the rape one which is simply slut shaming. Awesome.


Hey, at least she didn't ask to use free condoms!
 
2013-03-17 12:20:46 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.
 
2013-03-17 12:20:48 PM

Quaker: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.


Drunk is bad.  But unconscious is unacceptable.  I prefer my women awake when we start.  Maybe in a near coma, drooling, babbling incoherently and having lost all motor control when we finish.  The first prime requisite for consensual sex should always be that she KNOWS she's having sex.  Not just suspects it the next day.
 
2013-03-17 12:21:00 PM

Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?


You're way off base here.

What the fark is an affirmative actor?  In no way did I denounce the guilty for giving in to their temptation.

I just believe that people are foolish and naive in mindset to believe that it's society's obligation to take care of them when they put themselves into bad situations.  The world is not a nice and gentle place.  There are predators out there and if you choose to intoxicate yourself because you believe otherwise you shouldn't be surprised when you get attacked.
 
2013-03-17 12:21:31 PM

Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand


Because when you are the one being penetrated you are never to blame
 
2013-03-17 12:21:38 PM

arbitterm: It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.


I see you're not alone here with your misbelief, but sex offenders registries were never created to be punative measures.
 
2013-03-17 12:21:47 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?


No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.
 
2013-03-17 12:22:39 PM

oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...


She was passed out. Passed out people can't rape.
 
2013-03-17 12:22:46 PM

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?

Keep digging. The more you talk, the more people see you for what you are.


How could I survive losing face to the kind of people follow you?
 
2013-03-17 12:22:58 PM
Awkward High School Reunion Is the name of the band that should play at this class's 5 year high school reunion.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:24 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.


she got drunk and passed out. True this was irresponsible. But I hardly think being ganged raped is a natural consequence of passing out. She was irresponsible for getting that drunk, but she hardly deserved for this to happen to her.

I really feel sorry for any daughters being raised by a rapist apologist.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:29 PM
There is no justice until there is a bullet in each of their heads.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:38 PM

Dheiner: Hoarseman: Mors: Idiots.

Football doesn't exempt you from rape laws till college.

These outcomes suggests that it at least partially insulates you from them.

I don't know about that.  If there wasn't the football player aspect, would anonymous have even noticed?  Tell me you don't think that this was the only rape to occur last year, please.  I still,sadly, think far too many rapes go unreported, and very much plea bargained away.


Well, Anonymous is not the law so they aren't really relevant. Lots of rapes are ignored, but the point remains that the punishment does not fit the crime. Could there be other reasons? Sure, but given the area and the history of the football program in the region, especially given the way the rapists defenders sought to protect them, strongly suggests that football played an important role.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:42 PM
At least they've been outed on the Internet, so no suppression of juvenile records is going to keep future schools/employers/girlfriends from knowing exactly who they are dealing with.  That may be a bigger punishment than the year or so in juvie.
 
2013-03-17 12:23:52 PM

yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.


The only choice made in any of the above examples was the choice to get blitzed.  Everything that happens after the fact is proprietary.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:10 PM

Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.


Not to mention the moniker of "rape crew" that these guys were known by prior to the event.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:28 PM
adamgreeney:

No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.

No, I am pointing out the fact that you should not walk in a room of dangerous individuals without protecting yourself.  But again, please go on about how in your limited white knight mind the concept of nullification of responsibility exists for women who decide to drink to excess in a dangerous location.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:29 PM

Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.


Having sex with a drunk woman is not necessarily rape. Being intoxicated doesn't make you incapable of giving consent unless you're actually passed out or incoherent, as seems to be the case here.

Why is it that if a man and woman, both equally drunk, agree to have sex, you believe only the man is guilty of rape? I've never understood how people can claim to be feminists/egalitarians and yet not see how obviously degrading this double standard is for women. To say that intoxicated women are unable to give consent but intoxicated men are just perpetuates the stereotype that women are weak, need protection, and lack autonomy.

I used to work in law enforcement and I can tell you that we frequently had to explain to women that being pestered into having sex or having sex when you're drunk and regretting it the next day is NOT rape. The only time someone is too inebriated to give consent is when they're literally too inebriated to give consent, as in unable to express consent verbally or otherwise. A woman can be blackout drunk, stumbling and falling over, and still consent to sex as long as she's coherent enough to express that consent. I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand.

I remember once where we actually apprehended a group of marines for supposedly "raping" some dependent spouse while her service-member was deployed. One of them had a cell phone video depicting her engaged in obviously consensual sex with this group of marines. I won't go into too much detail, but suffice to say it's hard to scream "Give it to me devil dogs!" with a mouthful of cock. Showing her the video, explaining to her that she was a lying whore, and charging her for the false report were deeply satisfying.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:43 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Of course, when these same sorts of assholes terrorize and assault other boys in high school, we tell the other boys to "man up," because assault isn't a crime unless it's against a girl.


No, it *IS* assault regardless of the gender. These kind of assholes should be held responsible for their actions no matter WHO they terrorize.

I hope the parents of these kids are shamed daily by the people around them for letting their kids turn out this way. "Precious Snowflake" my ass.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:49 PM

Musikslayer: Quaker: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

So are you saying that drunk people aren't responsible for their own drunken decisions? Because I don't see how you could apply that logic to sex but not to other decisions like driving drunk or drunkenly assaulting someone.

Did you follow the story? It doesn't sound like it.

I don't make the laws. In Ohio (where I live), wasted and unconscious  16 year old girls are off limits. Is it a double standard? Ask the lawmakers, not me.


I haven't been following this case but I wasn't saying it's relevant here. I just read your post that called drunken consent an oxymoron. So for the purposes of this discussion, what the law says is irrelevant. You're capable of forming an opinion about whether or not something is a double standard and whether or not that double standard is justifiable, so tell me what you think. The lawmakers (theoretically) work for you, so what you think is more important anyway.
 
2013-03-17 12:25:54 PM
Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand


Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.
 
2013-03-17 12:26:24 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Because when you are the one being penetrated you are never to blame


I'm not sure that helps much.
 
2013-03-17 12:27:12 PM

yelmrog: Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.


The problem with alcohol is that is significantly affects your decision making abilities.

Again, do we hold people responsible for their actions when under the influence of an intoxicating substance, or do we not?
 
2013-03-17 12:27:20 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone

Oh no! Not Theaetetus!  I mean, I could have accepted such ridiculous barbs from anyone else but not such a pillar of our community.

No, you're a sociopath. You don't care what I call you, by definition. The point is to identify you so that others aren't misled into believing you.

Yes, please do prattle on about your brilliant identification.  Anyone who does not fit within your ideology must be a sociopath right?

Keep digging. The more you talk, the more people see you for what you are.

How could I survive losing face to the kind of people

who follow you?

I don't follow Theaetetus at all. I think he/she is a monumental dick. I also believe he/she is right on the money when charactirizing you as a sociopathic rapist apologist.
 
2013-03-17 12:28:42 PM

yelmrog: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped. Her mother then collected all of the evidence she could find (on the internet) and they went to the police. By that time - so much time had elapsed that there was no physical evidence of penetration and there were no chemical evidence of what the victim had ingested.

Not to mention the moniker of "rape crew" that these guys were known by prior to the event.


This.
 
2013-03-17 12:28:50 PM

Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.


There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."
 
2013-03-17 12:28:56 PM
The chick was drunk and had a history of getting drunk. Her friend tried to stop her from leaving with the guys and she got mean and took a swing at her friend. The morning after, she was only upset about not being able to find her cell phone. She only went balls out claiming rape after the picture and video started making the rounds on the internet.

The dudes were assholes, but that doesn't make them rapists.
 
2013-03-17 12:29:52 PM

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.

No, I am pointing out the fact that you should not walk in a room of dangerous individuals without protecting yourself.  But again, please go on about how in your limited white knight mind the concept of nullification of responsibility exists for women who decide to drink to excess in a dangerous location.


No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?
 
2013-03-17 12:30:21 PM

95BV5: arbitterm: It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.

I see you're not alone here with your misbelief, but sex offenders registries were never created to be punative measures.


And transvaginal ultrasounds were never intended to discourage abortions.
 
2013-03-17 12:30:28 PM

adamgreeney: Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?


because... football?
 
2013-03-17 12:30:57 PM

Popcorn Johnny: farkplug:

The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent?

If bragging about getting sex from a drunk chick was a crime, most of the men in America would be locked up.

Sexually assaulting a "chick" so drunk that she's completely passed out with a bunch of your buds and bragging about it by text with a bunch of your buds is what passes for "getting sex", these days? Oh, most-of-the-men-in-America, you sexy Lotharios, you!
 
2013-03-17 12:31:08 PM

WhippingBoy: yelmrog: Only in the latter two instances, the person you describe actually has the ability to make decisions.  You can choose not to get behind the wheel.  You can choose not to talk shiat to the roid-head.  This girl didn't have those choices.

The problem with alcohol is that is significantly affects your decision making abilities.

Again, do we hold people responsible for their actions when under the influence of an intoxicating substance, or do we not?


The point I'm making is that I believe there are no victims when alcohol and drugs involved.  There can still be guilty parties, but there are no victims.
 
2013-03-17 12:31:20 PM

adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.


Again... She became too intoxicated to be in control of herself.  I feel no sympathy for someone who is going to put themselves in harms way and then suffers a likely consequence of their actions.
 
2013-03-17 12:32:10 PM

adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.


I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.
 
2013-03-17 12:32:42 PM

InitialCommentGuy: jso2897:

Why would we draw the line a rape? Why hold anyone criminally responsible for what they do to drunken people? If somebody is too drunk to stop me beating their ass and taking their wallet - don't blame me!
Lame.


[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

If you fail to conduct yourself properly around individuals who have the potential to do you harm then you have placed yourself at great risk.  Indeed alcohol and most other popular narcotics are looseners of social inhibitions.

Keep your head straight.

Of course this also occurred without incident or report over multiple parties where she repeated the behavior again, and again and again...  But that is inconvenient to the narrative right?


Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.
 
2013-03-17 12:32:49 PM
adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.
 
2013-03-17 12:33:59 PM

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

Again... She became too intoxicated to be in control of herself.  I feel no sympathy for someone who is going to put themselves in harms way and then suffers a likely consequence of their actions.


So rape is ok if they are passed out? They are fair game for anyone who walks by? I think this says a lot about how you get laid.

She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape. Rape is never, at any point, acceptable behavior. Sorry, but it isnt.
 
2013-03-17 12:34:03 PM

tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.


They're minors. Too bad they can't be sentenced to a real prison though, where "No" means nothing.
 
2013-03-17 12:34:56 PM

cawingcrow: At least they've been outed on the Internet, so no suppression of juvenile records is going to keep future schools/employers/girlfriends from knowing exactly who they are dealing with.  That may be a bigger punishment than the year or so in juvie.


Yep.  These two convicts are permanently shiatlisted.  So is everyone whose names came out.

If only there was a way to change one's legal name.
 
2013-03-17 12:34:58 PM
jso2897:

Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.

I enjoy seeing the hackles get raised whenever someone is held accountable for their actions.  Of course it is usually just the same two or three who come out but it provides for some fun interactions on the most drunken day of the year.

Personally I'm going to go out and rape a leprechaun today.  It feels right.
 
2013-03-17 12:35:53 PM

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.



You, sir, are a monster.

People are inherently good at heart and this is a helpful and caring world.  We instinctively look out for each other, that's what we do - we're humans.  It's not our responsibility to lookout for ourselves.  We're evolved beyond that.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:10 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: The only choice made in any of the above examples was the choice to get blitzed.  Everything that happens after the fact is proprietary.


Oh wow.  I'm just going to back away from this one.  You're absolutely nuts, friendo.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:14 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.


How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.


They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:23 PM
Wow there is a good flame war here. I didn't keep up with this one so I haven't a clue whether there was rape or whether it was "girl pissed that there was pics and changed her mind about being consentual after the fact"
 
2013-03-17 12:36:23 PM
adamgreeney:

So rape is ok if they are passed out? They are fair game for anyone who walks by? I think this says a lot about how you get laid.

She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape. Rape is never, at any point, acceptable behavior. Sorry, but it isnt.


In a perfect world?  Yes.

As we live in an imperfect world with people who rape?  No.

But please, attempt the classic ad hominems.  It is quite fun to feel your impotent rage seething through your posts.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:37 PM
captainmaxthedestroyer:

The point I'm making is that I believe there are no victims when alcohol and drugs involved.  There can still be guilty parties, but there are no victims.

Thanks, I'll make sure to pass on your point to my uncle the next time I see him, which isn't that often these days, because he's been in a funk ever since his only child (my cousin) got hit by a drunk driver. DON'T YOU DARE CALL HIM A VICTIM, THOUGH! He was merely a "participant", if you will, in the unfolding of an evening of a guilty alcoholic's trip behind the wheel one night last summer.

Right, riiiiiight.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:52 PM

Mistymtnhop: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

She was sixteen! Drunk or not. Sixteen.


16 isn't actually that young; I remember being 16. Seems a lot of people forget.

I'm not defending what these shiatheads did in any way (obviously; it was deplorable), but we have to get out of this mindset that people under 18 (or whatever arbitrary age) are innocent, clueless children.
 
2013-03-17 12:37:12 PM
Another negro gets put in a cage where he belongs.  What a shocker.
 
2013-03-17 12:38:23 PM
You'll get over it.
 
2013-03-17 12:38:30 PM

yelmrog: Not to mention the moniker of "rape crew" that these guys were known by prior to the event.


Seriously?   That's as dumb as writing a bank robbery demand on the back of your pre-printed deposit slip!
 
2013-03-17 12:38:55 PM
You have got to love the cult of sports.  We dangle a carrot in front of our children's faces of million dollar celebrity status jobs, and select based purely on physical abilities.  Save for few examples, most sports involve little to no intellectual abilities.  Thats not to say some sports aren't less intellectual than others - looking at you football.  Many football players take pride in being called "meatheads" in the U.S.,  they actually celebrate being dumb, and they are the ones for some reason being pruned for careers as multi-millionaires, or at the very least ushered through an easy path to a (squandered) college education.  And we have been doing this for generations.

As for the legal end of things I don't see why we don't look at rape in a similar light as how we look at murder.  I think theres pretty universal acceptance from people of all walks of life that murder warrants harsh punishment, it should not be tolerated in society what-so-ever.  Is rape that far off from murder?  I don't think so.  This is an act that has the potential to permanently alter the emotional health of someone.  But from the perspective of punishing individuals, in the case of both rape and murder alike, great caution should be taken to avoid instances where an innocent person is punished.  If we let our prejudices get in the way, even if they are sort of valid - many football players are total asshole people - we run the risk of taking one act of injustice and replacing it with another.
 
2013-03-17 12:39:07 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


If you're sober in a bar and disagree with a drunk, something bad is likely going to happen to you, too.

That's because alcohol and violence go hand-in-hand. Getting your feelings hurt is not justification for assault.
 
2013-03-17 12:39:50 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.

There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."


It's like you only read a portion of my post...

No. The evidence is the timeline of events pieced together by eye witness testimony. Yes - she ingested alcohol. She likely ingested a significant portion of it. However - eye witness testimony does one helluva job suggesting that maybe she ingested a little more than alcohol. It's certainly plausible - and something that the police never ruled out in the case. They simply had insufficient evidence to establish it.

But given that there were a handful of other accounts in which girls woke up partially disrobed with memory loss is certainly interesting. There's one particular instance in which someone was posting anonymous comments online speculating that she could have been a victim. She said that she doesn't like the taste of beer so she only had one - one that she didn't finish. And that's all she could remember. She woke up almost entirely naked the next day. That's the ultimate light weight.

She also never came forward and gave her testimony to the police - but is that really surprising?

Who the hell knows what happened? Certainly not you or I. But let's not attribute the entire evening to alcohol - especially given the amount of questions surrounding the night's events.
 
2013-03-17 12:39:59 PM

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

So rape is ok if they are passed out? They are fair game for anyone who walks by? I think this says a lot about how you get laid.

She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape. Rape is never, at any point, acceptable behavior. Sorry, but it isnt.

In a perfect world?  Yes.

As we live in an imperfect world with people who rape?  No.

But please, attempt the classic ad hominems.  It is quite fun to feel your impotent rage seething through your posts.


You're right, it is not a perfect world. No one is saying it is. But that doesn't make those that are raped, murdered, robbed, etc at fault for the behavior of others. The kids should know, as most people do, that rape is not acceptable. I'm assuming you agree with that right? The girl couldn't know that these guys thought gang rape was their idea of a fun night out, so how did she share any responsibility? Should all women just assume men are going to rape them at any given moment? Because i think that's a little bit of projection on your part, since I can't think of a single male I know personally that would behave like this.
 
2013-03-17 12:40:12 PM

Uncle Tractor: mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x529]

Is it possible that those guys really did not know that they were doing something wrong?


Yes.

We live in a very messed up culture. I present the fact a good portion of comments in this thread don't think these guys did anything wrong as evidence of how messed up our society is in raising young men.
 
2013-03-17 12:40:16 PM

InitialCommentGuy: digital manipulation while intoxicated.


It looks like you misspelled "rape".
 
2013-03-17 12:40:17 PM

InitialCommentGuy: jso2897:

Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.
---------------
I enjoy seeing the hackles get raised whenever someone is held accountable for their actions.  Of course it is usually just the same two or three who come out but it provides for some fun interactions on the most drunken day of the year.

Personally I'm going to go out and rape a leprechaun today.  It feels right.


Careful, you might get raped by a drunken reveller. Or get run over and killed by one. They won't be responsible, because they're drunk. Have fun!
 
2013-03-17 12:40:23 PM

adamgreeney: She should be able to get drunk and not fear rape.


Why are you being so helpful to rapists?
 
2013-03-17 12:40:34 PM

InitialCommentGuy: jso2897:

Having no particular "narrative" here, I wouldn't know that. I actually don't care what happens to any of these people - it' s just academic conjecture to me. I lack the passion to really hold my own in these shout-fests, and usually drop out of them pretty quickly.

I enjoy seeing the hackles get raised whenever someone is held accountable for their actions.  Of course it is usually just the same two or three who come out but it provides for some fun interactions on the most drunken day of the year.

Personally I'm going to go out and rape a leprechaun today.  It feels right.


You don't ever want to rape a leprechaun - it's bad luck, like raping a midget, or spraying graffiti on a mime.
 
2013-03-17 12:40:35 PM

adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.


Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.
 
2013-03-17 12:40:36 PM

farkplug: captainmaxthedestroyer:

The point I'm making is that I believe there are no victims when alcohol and drugs involved.  There can still be guilty parties, but there are no victims.

Thanks, I'll make sure to pass on your point to my uncle the next time I see him, which isn't that often these days, because he's been in a funk ever since his only child (my cousin) got hit by a drunk driver. DON'T YOU DARE CALL HIM A VICTIM, THOUGH! He was merely a "participant", if you will, in the unfolding of an evening of a guilty alcoholic's trip behind the wheel one night last summer.

Right, riiiiiight.


You are missing context.  If both drivers were drinking, there would be no victim (unless there was a sober passenger) but they would still both be guilty.  What happened to your cousin was indeed a tragedy and they were indeed a victim.

You're supporting my point, thank you.
 
2013-03-17 12:41:26 PM
captainmaxthedestroyer:

You, sir, are a monster.

People are inherently good at heart and this is a helpful and caring world.  We instinctively look out for each other, that's what we do - we're humans.  It's not our responsibility to lookout for ourselves.  We're evolved beyond that.


Sadly this is what a lot of people believe.  The world is not some bright, sunny drum circle... It has its points of light and darkness.  We must be aware and protect ourselves as we go through life.  I used to do work with refugees from (country I won't name because it would date me) in (again, won't).  They understood this idea clearly having come from a terrible place, and acted accordingly.  But again this is America, where we must indulge every impulse immediately, and expect others to keep us safe from harm if we decide to overindulge because we are all a great big brotherhood.

Of course one of the defendants would have been strung up in Steubenville 50 years ago if he happened to glance at the victim, but that is neither here nor there.
 
2013-03-17 12:42:08 PM

adamgreeney: InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No, but anyone defending rapists and justifying their actions is a sociopath. We don't hear anyone defend Jeffery Dahmer because of his different "ideology," we just accept he's a sociopath, and anyone that thinks what he did is ok is probably one too. You're defending the brutal violation of a teenage girl that videotaped and distributed for bragging rights. That isn't ideology, it's you showing us that you're a sociopath.

No, I am pointing out the fact that you should not walk in a room of dangerous individuals without protecting yourself.  But again, please go on about how in your limited white knight mind the concept of nullification of responsibility exists for women who decide to drink to excess in a dangerous location.

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?


"morality" is not genetically passed on, it is learned. imho
the super-ego (that which keeps the ID's primal urges in check to fit into society's rules and expectations), much be nurtured and cultivated.

nice shows like leave it to beaver used to reinforce this in children sitting in front of TVs all day.

now kids are molded by bill clinton, bart simpson and other delinquents. is it any surprise how they turn out?
 
2013-03-17 12:42:47 PM

Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.

There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."

It's like you only read a portion of my post...

No. The evidence is the timeline of events pieced together by eye witness testimony. Yes - she ingested alcohol. She likely ingested a significant portion of it. However - eye witness testimony does one helluva job suggesting that maybe she ingested a little more than alcohol. It's certainly plausible - and something that the police never ruled out in the case. They simply had insufficient evidence to establish it.

But given that there were a handful of other accounts in which girls woke up partially disrobed with memory loss is certainly interesting. There's one particular instance in which someone was posting anonymous comments online speculating that she could have been a victim. She said that she doesn't like the taste of beer so she only had one - one that she didn't finish. And that's all she could remember. She woke up almost entirely naked the next day. That's the ultimate light weight.

She also never came forward and gave her testimony to the police - but is that really surprising?

Who the hell knows what happened? Certainly not you or I. But let's not attribute the entire evening to alcohol - especially given the amount of questions surrounding the night's events.


Which is why *I* am not engaging in unfounded speculation.
 
2013-03-17 12:42:58 PM

tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.


People like you are why I think people should choose judges over juries. Seriously "enjoy getting raped?"... you think raping 16 year olds is ok, but only the ones who did bad things? Torture, violence, and rape are why we get such a high recidivism rate... morons like you get giddy with the thought of prison being a hellscape that grooms better criminals, then wonder why the prisoners are so vindictive towards society at large when they get out... more often than hot though, asshats like you don't wonder that, you just hyper-simplify complex problems with statements like "if you didn't wanna get raped and stabbed, you shouldn't have broken the law" without ever thinking just how much of a Saudi Arabian tool that makes you sound like.

The reality is you sick farks support Sharia law and you don't even know it.
 
2013-03-17 12:43:07 PM
I started college young, so when I was her age I was starting my freshman year.  And drinking hard for the first time.  I didn't really know what my limits were.  So that first week, I went to a party, drank a lot of beer, and started flirting with a guy (an athlete).  I even told him where I lived.  And then on the way back to my dorm later, by myself, I decided it would be a good idea to take a nap on the steps of a building.  Along came that same guy -- pretty drunk himself -- woke me up, got me back on my feet, and walked me all the way to my room where he could hand me off safely to my roommate.

Just remember -- people always have options.  Any one of us can always help someone who needs help.

 It's not "understandable" they did this, it's not "her bad judgment," that's at fault -- it's their shiatty upbringings.  And apparently those of everyone at that party.
 
2013-03-17 12:43:24 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

Why the passive voice? "Something bad is going to happen to you"? With drunk driving, there's a chance you could fall asleep and veer off the road and hit a tree, sure. There's no other actor involved, but what about the other two? Why try to hide the fact that there's an affirmative actor, a rapist, behind this vague "something bad is going to happen" as if it's a force of nature or a statistical likelihood, rather than a criminal?  Isn't your very language attempting to remove blame from the rapist?

You're way off base here.

What the fark is an affirmative actor?


Hi, welcome to English 101. Today, we'll talk about the difference between passive voice, in which an actor is implied, and active voice, in which an actor is explicitly present and acts. For example...
Passive voice: "I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you."
Active voice: "I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that a rapist will rape you."

Notice the difference? In one, there's a rapist who rapes, and in the other, something "happens" to the subject.

Now, why is this important? Because with passive voice, the sentence only includes the subject or victim... meaning that you imply that only the victim has any control over the rape "happening". With active voice, we recognize instead that there's another person, the rapist, who really is the one with control over whether rape occurs or not.

More importantly, it destroys the logic of the sentence - if there's a rapist who wants to rape you, it's irrelevant whether you're shiat-faced and passed out. Those only matter for whether some jackasses think you deserved it or not.

That was our class for today. I hope you took notes, because there will be a test tomorrow.

In no way did I denounce the guilty for giving in to their temptation.

No, you explicitly didn't mention the existence of the guilty party.
Plus, "giving in to their temptation" attempts to relieve them of blame. It wasn't their fault, they just have weak will! Nice.
 
2013-03-17 12:43:27 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


You're assuming that if she had been able to say no, they would have stopped. Do you know that if she said no or not? And if she had, would that have made her not responsible? Could she have fought off the group of guys if she had tried to leave?

You're finding any reason to blame her even though you have no idea how or if she could have stopped it from happening. Unless your contention is that all girls should stay at home unless accompanied by an adult male chaperon. . .
 
2013-03-17 12:44:47 PM

95BV5: arbitterm: It would only be justice if they were forced to register as sex offenders. Goodbye good college or career.

I see you're not alone here with your misbelief, but sex offenders registries were never created to be punative measures.


With their history, a quick Google will reveal their crimes to any future potential employers, dates, etc.   That is a good thing.  I do wish that the prosecution had fought to have them tried as adults before a jury.  I still cannot believe that nobody at any of these parties didn't try to stop the abuse.  One witness was on record as telling them it was wrong and they should stop, but nobody physically tried to stop them.
 
2013-03-17 12:44:47 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


Yeah. Those darned rape victims are always to blame for not knowing that they're drinking with rapists.

It's almost as if these rape victims feel like they have a right to not be raped.
 
2013-03-17 12:44:53 PM

WhippingBoy: The problem with alcohol is that is significantly affects your decision making abilities.

Again, do we hold people responsible for their actions when under the influence of an intoxicating substance, or do we not?


The law usually does, yes.  And it's probably a good thing, because otherwise the "I was drunk, your honor" defense would come up everywhere.
 
2013-03-17 12:45:30 PM

InitialCommentGuy: I used to do work with refugees from (country I won't name because it would date me)


Upper Peru?  I bet it was Upper Peru.  You ARE old!
 
2013-03-17 12:45:32 PM

Guess_Who: Putting your fingers inside the school whore who is drunk is considered rape now?

an insult to true victims out there.


Yes, when someone is so drunk that they cant even stand up, and you penetrate them either digitally or with your genitals, it is rape, regardless of who that person is or how much you deride them as being a whore.

Glad we could clear that up.
 
2013-03-17 12:45:38 PM

Oldiron_79: Wow there is a good flame war here. I didn't keep up with this one so I haven't a clue whether there was rape or whether it was "girl pissed that there was pics and changed her mind about being consentual after the fact"


It was interesting to watch it evolve.  It started out anger over the sentencing, which was understandable isn't really worth having a flamewar over since you can only convict based on what charges were filed.  Now we've moved into this odd area where a 16 year old girl who got drunk at teenage party is being held chided by some for not knowing how to hold her liquor and there are some odd side comments about college girls at frat parties and all that which seems like apples to oranges.
 
2013-03-17 12:45:45 PM

bulldg4life: Quaker: There's a clearly defined limit of intoxication beyond which we don't hold people accountable for their actions?

Well, yes. That's why drunk girls can have sex, but unconscious blacked out girls can be raped. See, there's a limit to where "being drunk" isn't enough of an excuse. We just discussed this two posts ago.


If someone is unconscious then they're not physically capable of giving consent, so there is no action for which to hold them accountable in the first place. I'm talking about the original reference to "drunken consent".
 
2013-03-17 12:46:06 PM

firefly212: tarheel07: Enjoy getting raped in prison, scumbags.

People like you are why I think people should choose judges over juries. Seriously "enjoy getting raped?"... you think raping 16 year olds is ok, but only the ones who did bad things? Torture, violence, and rape are why we get such a high recidivism rate... morons like you get giddy with the thought of prison being a hellscape that grooms better criminals, then wonder why the prisoners are so vindictive towards society at large when they get out... more often than hot though, asshats like you don't wonder that, you just hyper-simplify complex problems with statements like "if you didn't wanna get raped and stabbed, you shouldn't have broken the law" without ever thinking just how much of a Saudi Arabian tool that makes you sound like.

The reality is you sick farks support Sharia law and you don't even know it.


It's more of a fantasy than a reality anyway. Life in the joint is far more mundane than the middle class male imagines it to be - actually, the boredom is the worst part by a huge margin.
 
2013-03-17 12:46:12 PM
Was the team the SteubenvilleStuds?

//obscure
 
2013-03-17 12:46:36 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: There's some (very limited) evidence that suggests she was drugged. She had no memory of the nights before and wasn't even aware of what happened until she started hearing about how she was raped.

There was no evidence at all, only her own speculative testimony.

The question of whether a person can be sober enough to consent and drunk enough to later forget consenting was explored at trial.  The upshot is, "Yes, but we can't tell if that's the case because individual tolerances for alcohol vary so much."

It's like you only read a portion of my post...

No. The evidence is the timeline of events pieced together by eye witness testimony. Yes - she ingested alcohol. She likely ingested a significant portion of it. However - eye witness testimony does one helluva job suggesting that maybe she ingested a little more than alcohol. It's certainly plausible - and something that the police never ruled out in the case. They simply had insufficient evidence to establish it.

But given that there were a handful of other accounts in which girls woke up partially disrobed with memory loss is certainly interesting. There's one particular instance in which someone was posting anonymous comments online speculating that she could have been a victim. She said that she doesn't like the taste of beer so she only had one - one that she didn't finish. And that's all she could remember. She woke up almost entirely naked the next day. That's the ultimate light weight.

She also never came forward and gave her testimony to the police - but is that really surprising?

Who the hell knows what happened? Certainly not you or I. But let's not attribute the entire evening to alcohol - especially given the amount of questions surrounding the night's events.

Which is why *I* am not engaging in unfounded speculation.


Except that anyone completely attributing this night to alcohol is engaging in unfounded speculation.

I'm not saying drugs were involved - but certainly police that the possibility existed. It just could not be proven.
 
2013-03-17 12:46:53 PM

adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: You're allowed to be disgusted. Why do you ignore the fact that I've said they had no right to touch her and are guilty. That doesn't negate the fact that she shares some responsibility.

/don't care if you agree or understand

Saying they had no right to touch her, but she's somehow responsible are TOTALLY conflicting statements. If they had no right, then there isn't any blame to place on her. If she was "asking for it," then that absolves them of some guilt, they just did what she was asking for. There isn't anything to understand here. You're slut shaming and blaming the victim because she got drunk, and possibly drugged.

I said she SHARED responsibility, not that she was totally responsible. If you want to call that slut shaming, so be it.

How does she share in anything? She was passed out! She couldn't have done anything if she tried to. Where exactly is her responsibility.

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

No matter what the situation, no one should think that raping an unconscious person is acceptable. It isn't. We should all be evolved enough and have the smallest shred of morality so that when we see an unconscious person, we don't jump to raping them. No one has the right to violate anyone else, regardless of the circumstances. There aren't shades of gray here. She didn't do anything wrong, and was possibly drugged, which renders your point moot. Why so staunchly try to find her at fault here?

And yet I cannot be the controller of every individual.  While the kids committed a crime she provided opportunity for said crime to occur through her actions.

They could have raped her if she was stone cold sober too, or any other girl they ran across while horny. She simply existed, which I don't think most people feel is offering opportunity for a crime.

Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.

You're assuming that if she had been able to say no, they would have stopped. Do you know that if she said no or not? And if she had, would that have made her not responsible? Could she have fought off the group of guys if she had tried to leave?

You're finding any reason to blame her even though you have no idea how or if she could have stopped it from happening. Unless your contention is that all girls should stay at home unless accompanied by an adult male chaperon. . .


No, I don't know that and you don't know what all she said either.

Sometimes, people just have to agree to disagree. I feel one way. You feel another. The world is going to keep turning.
 
2013-03-17 12:47:08 PM
I think women and victims in general carry a lot of responsibility not to put themselves in harm's way, but it is responsibility to themselves...not legal responsibility. No female rape victim ever forced a man's penis into her and no mugging victim ever forced a perp's knife to his or her throat. If I leave my car unlocked, do you really want the law to side with the car thief because that's how it sounds? there's criminal responsibility and moral responsibility. Victim shaming is abhorrent. These people have to live with their traumas for the rest of their lives and I'm sure they are fully aware of how their decisions placed them in harm's way.

But if you rape forgiving dumb shiats want to be all about personal responsibility, accept that rapists (and car thieves and muggers) made their decisions and now they have to accept the consequences. In this case, the girl was unconscious, there were witnesses, and there was photographic evidence...so the facts and the source of criminal responsibility should not really be in question.

For those of you upset that women can dress slutty and then turn you down, well, I'm sure a nice cat lady will come along some day.
 
2013-03-17 12:48:19 PM
adamgreeney:

You're right, it is not a perfect world. No one is saying it is. But that doesn't make those that are raped, murdered, robbed, etc at fault for the behavior of others. The kids should know, as most people do, that rape is not acceptable. I'm assuming you agree with that right? The girl couldn't know that these guys thought gang rape was their idea of a fun night out, so how did she share any responsibility? Should all women just assume men are going to rape them at any given moment? Because i think that's a little bit of projection on your part, since I can't think of a single male I know personally that would behave like this.

And you deal with a very specific class of male.  I know several guys I wouldn't trust in a room with a drunken woman and so I don't invite them to parties.  I deal with them as I must due to work or social activities, but wouldn't let them into a location where a vulnerable individual is located.  I also know plenty of guys who would hold them in check by any means necessary, and those are the people I associate with, let into my home, drink beers with while watching a match or just hanging out at the bar.

Anyone has the ability to perform horrible acts.  You believe we have evolved, I know by personal experience that we are a few days without power or food away from savagery.  I get that your life is comfortable in comparison to 99% of the world's population... You have a computer to argue with me on. But if you went to some of the places I have gone, or dealt with the groups I have?  You would have a bit better understanding of the human condition beyond puppies, rainbows, and social justice.

There's good and evil in every man, woman, and child.  Events both inexplicable and completely normal will affect them in ways that you or I cannot judge.  And so I treat any person with the kind of knowledge of danger that I would treat a wild animal, a found firearm, or any other potentially dangerous instrument.
 
2013-03-17 12:48:45 PM

monty666: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

Wow man, you were really upright back then. It's good you've loosened up.


So he's uptight because he didn't think raping an unconscious girl was a fun thing to do on Saturday night.

What the fark is wrong with you?
 
2013-03-17 12:48:51 PM

office_despot: I started college young, so when I was her age I was starting my freshman year.  And drinking hard for the first time.  I didn't really know what my limits were.  So that first week, I went to a party, drank a lot of beer, and started flirting with a guy (an athlete).  I even told him where I lived.  And then on the way back to my dorm later, by myself, I decided it would be a good idea to take a nap on the steps of a building.  Along came that same guy -- pretty drunk himself -- woke me up, got me back on my feet, and walked me all the way to my room where he could hand me off safely to my roommate.

Just remember -- people always have options.  Any one of us can always help someone who needs help.

 It's not "understandable" they did this, it's not "her bad judgment," that's at fault -- it's their shiatty upbringings.  And apparently those of everyone at that party.


And a lot of the people in Steubenville, it seems.  For generations, if we believe Traci Lords.
 
2013-03-17 12:49:28 PM
I see that this is one of those threads where I have to set up an Automator script for "click 'ignore' button, enter 'blames the rape victim' as comment, click submit".

Jesus Christ, some of you people.
 
2013-03-17 12:49:50 PM

BarkingUnicorn: InitialCommentGuy: I used to do work with refugees from (country I won't name because it would date me)

Upper Peru?  I bet it was Upper Peru.  You ARE old!


Damn you unicorn...

When I'm done with the leprechaun...
 
2013-03-17 12:50:15 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.




I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link
 
2013-03-17 12:51:23 PM
Good.
 
2013-03-17 12:51:51 PM
casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.
 
2013-03-17 12:52:06 PM

Bontesla: Except that anyone completely attributing this night to alcohol is engaging in unfounded speculation.

I'm not saying drugs were involved - but certainly police that the possibility existed. It just could not be proven.


Which is exactly what I said.  "We can't tell" and "we don't prove it" put us on the same side of the fence.

The question of drugs didn't matter in the end. It's irrelevant to this case.
 
2013-03-17 12:52:28 PM

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

You're right, it is not a perfect world. No one is saying it is. But that doesn't make those that are raped, murdered, robbed, etc at fault for the behavior of others. The kids should know, as most people do, that rape is not acceptable. I'm assuming you agree with that right? The girl couldn't know that these guys thought gang rape was their idea of a fun night out, so how did she share any responsibility? Should all women just assume men are going to rape them at any given moment? Because i think that's a little bit of projection on your part, since I can't think of a single male I know personally that would behave like this.

And you deal with a very specific class of male.  I know several guys I wouldn't trust in a room with a drunken woman and so I don't invite them to parties.  I deal with them as I must due to work or social activities, but wouldn't let them into a location where a vulnerable individual is located.  I also know plenty of guys who would hold them in check by any means necessary, and those are the people I associate with, let into my home, drink beers with while watching a match or just hanging out at the bar.

Anyone has the ability to perform horrible acts.  You believe we have evolved, I know by personal experience that we are a few days without power or food away from savagery.  I get that your life is comfortable in comparison to 99% of the world's population... You have a computer to argue with me on. But if you went to some of the places I have gone, or dealt with the groups I have?  You would have a bit better understanding of the human condition beyond puppies, rainbows, and social justice.

There's good and evil in every man, woman, and child.  Events both inexplicable and completely normal will affect them in ways that you or I cannot judge.  And so I treat any person with the kind of knowledge of danger that I would treat a wild animal, a found firearm, or any other potentially dangerous instrument.


Ah I see you've been to Detroit as well.

The rest of your post is very Cormac McCarthy-esque.  Well done.
 
2013-03-17 12:52:50 PM

InitialCommentGuy: adamgreeney:

You're right, it is not a perfect world. No one is saying it is. But that doesn't make those that are raped, murdered, robbed, etc at fault for the behavior of others. The kids should know, as most people do, that rape is not acceptable. I'm assuming you agree with that right? The girl couldn't know that these guys thought gang rape was their idea of a fun night out, so how did she share any responsibility? Should all women just assume men are going to rape them at any given moment? Because i think that's a little bit of projection on your part, since I can't think of a single male I know personally that would behave like this.

And you deal with a very specific class of male.  I know several guys I wouldn't trust in a room with a drunken woman and so I don't invite them to parties.  I deal with them as I must due to work or social activities, but wouldn't let them into a location where a vulnerable individual is located.  I also know plenty of guys who would hold them in check by any means necessary, and those are the people I associate with, let into my home, drink beers with while watching a match or just hanging out at the bar.

Anyone has the ability to perform horrible acts.  You believe we have evolved, I know by personal experience that we are a few days without power or food away from savagery.  I get that your life is comfortable in comparison to 99% of the world's population... You have a computer to argue with me on. But if you went to some of the places I have gone, or dealt with the groups I have?  You would have a bit better understanding of the human condition beyond puppies, rainbows, and social justice.

There's good and evil in every man, woman, and child.  Events both inexplicable and completely normal will affect them in ways that you or I cannot judge.  And so I treat any person with the kind of knowledge of danger that I would treat a wild animal, a found firearm, or any other potentially dangerous instrument.


I actually agree with a lot of what you said. However, you're still blaming the victim. Even if we saw eye to eye here, how do you know this girl was taught skills to protect herself like you're suggesting? We aren't born knowing how to handle the various situations you're laid out, someone teaches us. So, at best, her parents and school are at fault for not teaching her the skills to prevent this. She isn't at fault at all.
Unless you can prove that she knew these guys were rapists, knew what they intended, and had all the skills and knowledge necessary to protect herself and evaluate the situation, you're still wrong for defending the rapists and blaming her. Sorry, but she isn't at fault in any way.
 
2013-03-17 12:54:17 PM

casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.


The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?
 
2013-03-17 12:54:17 PM

Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.


We have a thing called a justice system with 12 people and a judge and everything.  It's really cool.  Lawyers do this thing where they present evidence and then reasonable people decide after that.  I mean, it's not fool-proof but it's a indicator or something.  Really neat how it all works.  Sometimes you can go to a courthouse and watch or read or even turn on the tv to see how it all works.
 
2013-03-17 12:54:46 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.


"Drink Responsibly" = "Trip Realistically" = "Use Cocaine Calmly."
 
2013-03-17 12:54:57 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Anyone has the ability to perform horrible acts.  You believe we have evolved, I know by personal experience that we are a few days without power or food away from savagery


Depends on where you live.  In America, yes.

In Japan, no.

Think about it.
 
2013-03-17 12:55:55 PM

casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.



I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

One last time, it's possible to believe the victim shares in some personal responsibility without being a "rape apologist". The whole situation is just sad.

/they both agree with me on this subject
//not that you care
 
2013-03-17 12:56:28 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: Ah I see you've been to Detroit as well.

The rest of your post is very Cormac McCarthy-esque.  Well done.


Thank you.  And yeah, I spent a hitch in Detroit during the nadir where there wasn't a market for miles and you had to worry about walking around even in decent neighborhoods.  I remember delivering around 40k in computer equipment on one of my first runs being forced off a main strip by a blockade of burnt out vehicles.  The offshoot took me into an even better area.

Detroit is bad.  But there are areas in Appalachia, along the Gulf Coast, and even in the West that can be very, very rough.
 
2013-03-17 12:56:51 PM

yelmrog: InitialCommentGuy: Anyone has the ability to perform horrible acts.  You believe we have evolved, I know by personal experience that we are a few days without power or food away from savagery

Depends on where you live.  In America, yes.

In Japan, no.

Think about it.


In Japan, they'd all kill themselves.
 
2013-03-17 12:57:10 PM

BarkingUnicorn: office_despot: I started college young, so when I was her age I was starting my freshman year.  And drinking hard for the first time.  I didn't really know what my limits were.  So that first week, I went to a party, drank a lot of beer, and started flirting with a guy (an athlete).  I even told him where I lived.  And then on the way back to my dorm later, by myself, I decided it would be a good idea to take a nap on the steps of a building.  Along came that same guy -- pretty drunk himself -- woke me up, got me back on my feet, and walked me all the way to my room where he could hand me off safely to my roommate.

Just remember -- people always have options.  Any one of us can always help someone who needs help.

 It's not "understandable" they did this, it's not "her bad judgment," that's at fault -- it's their shiatty upbringings.  And apparently those of everyone at that party.

And a lot of the people in Steubenville, it seems.  For generations, if we believe Traci Lords.


I attended college not too far away from Steubenville. I was friends with one guy who said sexual violence isn't particularly rare at parties. He said it was just the culture. It wasn't a big deal. There were a lot of churches. Many thought rape was just . . . almost like a punishment for women for being somewhere they shouldn't be or doing something they shouldn't be doing.

He was so unnervingly non-nonchalant about it. He said he was disgusted by it and got the hell outta there as soon as he could . . .  but I found it to be much more disturbing than he thought it was. This was back in 2003ish.

When this victim came forward - many people accused her of being an outsider trying to take things out of context. It reminded me of the conversations I had with that classmate.
 
2013-03-17 12:57:31 PM

Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?


It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.
 
2013-03-17 12:58:26 PM

Trixie212: Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


At 16 years old, I didn't really know my limits of alcohol consumption, either. Kids do dumb things because they're not yet adults, and drinking yourself to the point of blacking out and waking up with a DEFCON 1 hangover the next morning is orders of magnitude less an example of a moral or practical failing of personal and social responsibility than sexual assault.

Basically, I have no idea why you even bring her "lack of responsibility" up in the first place. It's completely irrelevant. I can dig deep enough and find examples of poor or incorrect choices by a victim in any crime, but I don't do so because it's cold and unsympathetic.
 
2013-03-17 12:58:29 PM

Tak the Hideous New Girl: monty666: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

Wow man, you were really upright back then. It's good you've loosened up.

So he's uptight because he didn't think raping an unconscious girl was a fun thing to do on Saturday night.

What the fark is wrong with you?


Are you really that dense?
 
2013-03-17 12:58:52 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: yelmrog: InitialCommentGuy: Anyone has the ability to perform horrible acts.  You believe we have evolved, I know by personal experience that we are a few days without power or food away from savagery

Depends on where you live.  In America, yes.

In Japan, no.

Think about it.

In Japan, they'd all kill themselves.


lol
 
2013-03-17 12:58:56 PM

adamgreeney: I actually agree with a lot of what you said. However, you're still blaming the victim. Even if we saw eye to eye here, how do you know this girl was taught skills to protect herself like you're suggesting? We aren't born knowing how to handle the various situations you're laid out, someone teaches us. So, at best, her parents and school are at fault for not teaching her the skills to prevent this. She isn't at fault at all.


Parents?  Yes, she needed to be taught not to drink or to not accept drinks from strangers and master her drinking. Schools?  Yes, let us pass morality onto educators...

Unless you can prove that she knew these guys were rapists, knew what they intended, and had all the skills and knowledge necessary to protect herself and evaluate the situation, you're still wrong for defending the rapists and blaming her. Sorry, but she isn't at fault in any way.

And again, you don't seem to get what we're talking about at all.  And you are just showing how little you know about the world outside your nice comfy spot.
 
2013-03-17 12:59:32 PM

InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.


One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.
 
2013-03-17 12:59:44 PM
These threads are great for updating farky. it is nice to know who the rape apologists are.
 
2013-03-17 12:59:57 PM

adamgreeney: It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.


Let me guess: You're another one who thinks the "War on Women" is waged by men.
 
2013-03-17 01:00:12 PM

InitialCommentGuy: The My Little Pony Killer: InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.

fark off and die.  Violently.  In a fire.

/asshole

Sorry kid.  Your actions have little to nothing to do with how the case was resolved.  This is textbook for the guilty verdict as digital penetration (the absolute only thing that was covered for at least one of them) was the only thing captured and confirmed.

Remember: It is always rape.  Always.  Even if you decide to drink, loosen up and screw around with guys over the span of several parties.
.


May I suggest that you go over the local rape statutes before you go sticking your finger in anyone else in Ohio in the near future?

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.02

"No person shall engage in sexual conduct with another who is not the spouse of the offender or who is the spouse of the offender but is living separate and apart from the offender, when any of the following applies:

a) For the purpose of preventing resistance, the offender substantially impairs the other person's judgment or control by administering any drug, intoxicant, or controlled substance to the other person surreptitiously or by force, threat of force, or deception."

 As used in sections 2907.01 [ff.] of the Revised Code:
(A) "Sexual conduct" means vaginal intercourse between a male and female; anal intercourse, fellatio, and cunnilingus between persons regardless of sex; and, without privilege to do so, the insertion, however slight, of any part of the body or any instrument, apparatus, or other object into the vaginal or anal opening of another. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete vaginal or anal intercourse.

The boy who penetrated that girl's vagina was delinquent of rape according to Ohio law.  If you don't like it, complain to the Ohio legislature.
 
2013-03-17 01:00:14 PM

adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.


One more time, moron. I said she SHARED responsibility. SHARED. They get the blame for taking advantage of her but she SHARES responsibility.

/fark you
 
2013-03-17 01:00:31 PM

Popcorn Johnny: The chick was drunk and had a history of getting drunk. Her friend tried to stop her from leaving with the guys and she got mean and took a swing at her friend. The morning after, she was only upset about not being able to find her cell phone. She only went balls out claiming rape after the picture and video started making the rounds on the internet.

The dudes were assholes, but that doesn't make them rapists.


Her parents quite possibly should be punished/parental rights somehow abrogated for being stupid at parenting, but that doesn't excuse the football players for being rapists.
 
2013-03-17 01:00:34 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Except that anyone completely attributing this night to alcohol is engaging in unfounded speculation.

I'm not saying drugs were involved - but certainly police that the possibility existed. It just could not be proven.

Which is exactly what I said.  "We can't tell" and "we don't prove it" put us on the same side of the fence.

The question of drugs didn't matter in the end. It's irrelevant to this case.


Meh. We will just disagree on this.

I think we both agree that rape is rape. But - the use of drugs and the potential for there being multiple victims from that night is something I find particularly striking. Also boys assigning themselves the name "Rape Crew" it being known before the night of the rape is also disturbing.

It's something that brings this . . . truly terrible act into possibly many truly terrible acts that have happened before and likely after this particular case.
 
2013-03-17 01:01:29 PM

Trixie212: Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

/they both agree with me on this subject


InitialCommentGuy: I remember delivering around 40k in computer equipment on one of my first runs being forced off a main strip by a blockade of burnt out vehicles.


Sure you remember that. Everything you write is plausible. We totally believe you.
 
2013-03-17 01:02:15 PM

Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

One last time, it's possible to believe the victim shares in some personal responsibility without being a "rape apologist". The whole situation is just sad.

/they both agree with me on this subje ...


Agreement doesn't make you right.

Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.
 
2013-03-17 01:02:30 PM
jaytkay:

InitialCommentGuy: I remember delivering around 40k in computer equipment on one of my first runs being forced off a main strip by a blockade of burnt out vehicles.

Sure you remember that. Everything you write is plausible. We totally believe you.


It's alright bud.  Truly you know what's going on.
 
2013-03-17 01:03:17 PM
Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.
 
2013-03-17 01:04:00 PM

iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.


Remember guys: fingering a drunk girl earns you an execution.
 
2013-03-17 01:04:08 PM
I love all the football hate with this story. Like that has anything whatsoever to do with it. This sort of shiat happens in every town in America, every year.
 
2013-03-17 01:04:15 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I said she SHARED respo ...


Things it is reasonable to expect will happen to you if you get black out drunk at 16: You get arrested for underage consumption, you have a really bad hangover, you end up in the ER with alcohol poisoning.

Things you shouldn't expect to happen if you get black out drunk: You get raped or sexual assaulted.
 
2013-03-17 01:04:17 PM
Was Fark always a place for rape apologists and /b/-level trolls or am I just getting old and tired of this site?
 
2013-03-17 01:04:57 PM

elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.


I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.
 
2013-03-17 01:05:20 PM

InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

Remember guys: fingering raping a drunk girl an unconscious girl earns you an execution.


I fixed it for you.
 
2013-03-17 01:06:26 PM
Carth:

Things it is reasonable to expect will happen to you if you get black out drunk at 16: You get arrested for underage consumption, you have a really bad hangover, you end up in the ER with alcohol poisoning.

Things you shouldn't expect to happen if you get black out drunk: You get raped or sexual assaulted.


And yet there are always these stories of blacking out and being raped.  It is as if you refuse to accept the possibilities and protect yourself, and thus expect others to protect you from yourself.
 
2013-03-17 01:06:28 PM

Popcorn Johnny: farkplug: The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent?

If bragging about getting sex from a drunk chick was a crime, most of the men in America would be locked up.


Don't assume most guys are like you.
 
2013-03-17 01:06:39 PM
scrapetv.com
 
2013-03-17 01:07:00 PM

InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

Remember guys: fingering a drunk girl earns you an execution.


The girl was unconscious. PLEASE tell me you would finger an unconscious 16 year old. Fark needs to hear this.
 
2013-03-17 01:07:04 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.

I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.


This...sigh.
 
2013-03-17 01:07:41 PM
ITT: Rape victims should share blame because they don't know how to act like an adult and hold their liquor at the age of 16.
 
2013-03-17 01:07:50 PM

Bontesla: InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

Remember guys: fingering raping a drunk girl an unconscious girl earns you an execution.

I fixed it for you.


See... I actually gave the facts of the case... But please, go on about how murder is the solution to rape.
 
2013-03-17 01:08:06 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: adamgreeney: It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

Let me guess: You're another one who thinks the "War on Women" is waged by men.


Let me guess, you're another one who thinks men are being oppressed?  Yep, those poor, poor men...
 
2013-03-17 01:08:49 PM

InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.


Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?


Those would be the words of Trixie212.
 
2013-03-17 01:08:59 PM
ITT: We also know for certain that the vicim knew exactly what she was drinking.
 
2013-03-17 01:09:21 PM
the coach comment    --    "youve made me mad, either your going to get hurt or someone close to you...:    helped light the fuse in the beginning
 
2013-03-17 01:10:00 PM

Bontesla: Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

Both of my daughters are wonderful, responsible, self-reliant women and I'm very proud of both of them. One served in our military and is now in nursing school and the other is raising a wonderful family.

One last time, it's possible to believe the victim shares in some personal responsibility without being a "rape apologist". The whole situation is just sad.

/they both agree with me on this subje ...

Agreement doesn't make you right.

Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.


Not just "she has some responsibility, mind you. But EQUAL responsibility to that of the rapists.

This parent claims that if a girl is drunk and raped, she is exactly the moral equivalent of the person who decides to violate her bodily integrity. It's not even "people are responsible for their safety," it's something far worse.

So, parent... We heard what you'd tell your daughters. If your son rapes a girl after she has been drinking, will you be sure to explain to how it's just as much her fault as is? Will you make sure your sons know that women share 50% of the blame for being raped after they have a few beers?
 
2013-03-17 01:10:13 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: ITT: We also know for certain that the vicim knew exactly what she was drinking.


Truly we should accept any and all drinks from anyone who gives them to us.

I mean, strangers don't exist where there's booze right?
 
2013-03-17 01:10:25 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Carth:

Things it is reasonable to expect will happen to you if you get black out drunk at 16: You get arrested for underage consumption, you have a really bad hangover, you end up in the ER with alcohol poisoning.

Things you shouldn't expect to happen if you get black out drunk: You get raped or sexual assaulted.

And yet there are always these stories of blacking out and being raped.  It is as if you refuse to accept the possibilities and protect yourself, and thus expect others to protect you from yourself.


It's almost as if rape victims has this insane expectation that they shouldn't be raped. Weird, right?

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.
 
2013-03-17 01:10:29 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Carth:

Things it is reasonable to expect will happen to you if you get black out drunk at 16: You get arrested for underage consumption, you have a really bad hangover, you end up in the ER with alcohol poisoning.

Things you shouldn't expect to happen if you get black out drunk: You get raped or sexual assaulted.

And yet there are always these stories of blacking out and being raped.  It is as if you refuse to accept the possibilities and protect yourself, and thus expect others to protect you from yourself.


There are all these stories about people being murdered in their house yet I don't feel the need to buy a gun. There are stories about people being framed by police yet I have no problem letting cops search my car if they ask. Why? because victims aren't responsible for other people's illegal actions and I'm not going to live my life in fear of what other people might do to me.
 
2013-03-17 01:10:44 PM

Trixie212: Her responsibility was to not get so farking drunk that she was no longer in control of her actions.


Regardless of how drunk she was... christ, screw trying to reason with you.  I honestly don't believe that you are female.
 
2013-03-17 01:10:49 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Popcorn Johnny: farkplug: The texts the wonderful young Mr. Mays sent?

If bragging about getting sex from a drunk chick was a crime, most of the men in America would be locked up.

Don't assume most guys are like you.


Bingo, I walked away from a lot of drunk girls in my time.  It isn't hard to do, you don't do it, because you don't want to, and you are stupid.
 
2013-03-17 01:10:54 PM

The Great EZE: Was Fark always a place for rape apologists and /b/-level trolls or am I just getting old and tired of this site?


Yes.
 
2013-03-17 01:11:02 PM

iaazathot: Lenny_da_Hog: adamgreeney: It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

Let me guess: You're another one who thinks the "War on Women" is waged by men.

Let me guess, you're another one who thinks men are being oppressed?  Yep, those poor, poor men...


That whooshing sound is the point flying over your head.

Authoritarian women are just as responsible for the oppression of women as authoritarian men are. Judgmental morality against women, from women, shouldn't surprise anyone. Go to a Wednesday night Bible study meeting in a small church basement sometime to see how authoritarian women think.
 
2013-03-17 01:11:26 PM

InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

Remember guys: fingering raping a drunk girl earns you an execution.


Not that I agree with the punishment, but I'm not going to let you attempt to diminish rape, sociopath.
 
2013-03-17 01:11:28 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Truly we should accept any and all drinks from anyone who gives them to us.

I mean, strangers don't exist where there's booze right?


If only all sixteen year olds were as wise and above it all as you.
 
2013-03-17 01:11:30 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla: InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

Remember guys: fingering raping a drunk girl an unconscious girl earns you an execution.

I fixed it for you.

See... I actually gave the facts of the case... But please, go on about how murder is the solution to rape.


You didn't give any facts. I corrected your statement with facts.
 
2013-03-17 01:11:41 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: ITT: Rape victims should share blame because they don't know how to act like an adult and hold their liquor at the age of 16.


This.

Boohoo I couldn't control myself with alcohol cause I'm an idiot, and two drunk horny guys took advantage of me.

/let me shed a giant emo tear for you
 
2013-03-17 01:12:36 PM
Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.


Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.
 
2013-03-17 01:13:06 PM

gameshowhost: The Great EZE: Was Fark always a place for rape apologists and /b/-level trolls or am I just getting old and tired of this site?

Yes.


Yeah, I realized how poorly I phrased that question after I posted it. It should be is this something new or am I just getting tired of the same old thing?

...fark it. I'm going to get all my news and commentary from Facebook now.
 
2013-03-17 01:13:36 PM
Could have been worse.
Could have happened in Sandusky.
 
2013-03-17 01:13:48 PM

casey17: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

Those would be the words of Trixie212.


Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?
 
2013-03-17 01:14:05 PM

Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.


while i agree with your intended meaning, this is simply not true.

if you fly to rapeville, the capitol of rapistonia, and jump into a pit full of rapists on rape day, you might be partially responsible for being raped.

and of course, people (including me) laugh at the fact that convicted rapists will be butt-raped and/or mouth-raped in prison, because "it is their fault" for being rapists.
 
2013-03-17 01:14:06 PM
One last one:

ITT: We were all wise and responsible sixteen year olds who never did anything stupid and shrugged off any and all peer pressure we faced.
 
2013-03-17 01:14:06 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.

I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.


Well, all you people are doing is shaming victims. I'm sure that rape victims dont suffer enough. They totally need more finger wagging from all the security experts on Fark. And it doesnt come off at all as if you are telling people it was their fault they got raped...even though their attackers made the important decision to do the crime.

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.
 
2013-03-17 01:14:31 PM

ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.


Do they have to register as sex offenders  being juvies?
 
2013-03-17 01:14:36 PM

Trixie212: One more time, moron. I said she SHARED responsibility. SHARED. They get the blame for taking advantage of her but she SHARES responsibility.


Saying she "shares" responsibility with the people who sexually assaulted her implies that her drinking to the point of a blackout is in of itself a crime or moral failing almost on par with the act of sexual assault on its own.

Her decision to consume as much as alcohol as she did was a bad choice, but she doesn't "share" anything with them. I might make a bad choice to leave a bar by myself through a back alley because it's a shortcut to my car instead of through the front door, and run into a mugger. I don't see why I would have to "share" responsibility with someone who committed robbery against me, when his act was an actual crime and mine was simply a "bad decision".
 
2013-03-17 01:14:39 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: ITT: We also know for certain that the vicim knew exactly what she was drinking.

Truly we should accept any and all drinks from anyone who gives them to us.

I mean, strangers don't exist where there's booze right?


Why are you so sure that these guys were strangers to this girl?
 
2013-03-17 01:14:55 PM

iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.


I'm just going to go ahead and assume that at least half of them are trolls. They've  got nothing better to do than yank on your chain just to watch you get pissed. F*ck 'em.
 
2013-03-17 01:15:11 PM

Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Except that anyone completely attributing this night to alcohol is engaging in unfounded speculation.

I'm not saying drugs were involved - but certainly police that the possibility existed. It just could not be proven.

Which is exactly what I said.  "We can't tell" and "we don't prove it" put us on the same side of the fence.

The question of drugs didn't matter in the end. It's irrelevant to this case.

Meh. We will just disagree on this.

I think we both agree that rape is rape. But - the use of drugs and the potential for there being multiple victims from that night is something I find particularly striking. Also boys assigning themselves the name "Rape Crew" it being known before the night of the rape is also disturbing.

It's something that brings this . . . truly terrible act into possibly many truly terrible acts that have happened before and likely after this particular case.


It certainly is under criminal law.  Apportionment of responsibility occurs in civil litigation and in the court of public opinion.  Standards of evidence and proof are also lower, and tend to vanish when they become inconvenient.
 
2013-03-17 01:15:39 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.


You're actually assuming facts that the police never established. . . . but please continue to make assumptions in order to justify rape.
 
2013-03-17 01:16:04 PM
The cool thing is that you can now bring up "rape culture" in a conversation and instantly get into a feminist's pants.
 
2013-03-17 01:16:07 PM
The Great EZE: Was Fark always a place for rape apologists and /b/-level trolls or am I just getting old and tired of this site?

You must be new here.
 
2013-03-17 01:16:09 PM

hasty ambush: ELKAY: Wow, a slap on the wrist. And if they'd been dealing drugs they'd have been charged as adults and gotten 20 years. Pathetic. These monsters are actually being given a chance to rejoin society after only one year.

Do they have to register as sex offenders  being juvies?


According to the news reports yes. They'll be on the sex offender registry for life.
 
2013-03-17 01:16:15 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: Truly we should accept any and all drinks from anyone who gives them to us.

I mean, strangers don't exist where there's booze right?

If only all sixteen year olds were as wise and above it all as you.


These days children are taught from an early age of stranger danger.  Don't eat, drink, etc. anything given to you by a stranger.  Apparently they just mystically lose this understanding at 14-18.  I'm sorry, but taking drinks in that atmosphere is a huge no-no per everything we teach, but apparently it is alright to forget basic lessons as long as booze are involved?
 
2013-03-17 01:16:27 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.


Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???
 
2013-03-17 01:16:59 PM

Theaetetus: ^This is what a pro-rape sociopath looks like.

/update your farkies, everyone


I have somewhere under a dozen farkies.

I'll probably double that number thanks to this thread.

/seriously, are you f--king kidding me
//getting the f--k out of here for now because if I see victim written with quotes around it one more f--king time, I'm going to punch out the computer screen
 
2013-03-17 01:17:35 PM
I don't have a lot to add except thank you to the guys here who have piped to say that men can make decisions not to have sex or make a judgement call that there is a certain point where a person is too drunk to have consensual sex.
 
2013-03-17 01:17:43 PM
"She didn't really respond to it," he said.

You have the right to complain only when you are old enough that YOU don't respond to it.
 
2013-03-17 01:18:04 PM

Trixie212: casey17: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

Those would be the words of Trixie212.

Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?


Did you raise your sons to believe that a drunk woman has "just as much responsibility" for her rape as the rapist, or just your daughters?
 
2013-03-17 01:18:10 PM
No, justice would have been to have them put down. This is a slap on the wrist that won't even show up on their records as adults.

Oh well, no room in prison anyway. Gotta save that for locking up potheads who are too lazy to rape people.
 
2013-03-17 01:19:07 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.


Amazing how far you've departed from the facts in this case just to justify your "rape victims deserve everything <strike>I do to them</strike> they get" philosophy.
 
2013-03-17 01:20:10 PM

Trixie212: SHARED.


Even in all caps, this is wrong.
 
2013-03-17 01:20:22 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???


of course they shouldn't have to be.
but wake up for fark's sake.
you have to be.
apparently.
sadly.
true.
 
2013-03-17 01:20:49 PM

Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Amazing how far you've departed from the facts in this case just to justify your "rape victims deserve everything <strike>I do to them</strike> they get" philosophy.



The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.

Tell us of your inability to follow this case.
 
2013-03-17 01:20:53 PM
So many strawmen in here, this place is a real fire hazard.
 
2013-03-17 01:21:05 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???


I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.
 
2013-03-17 01:21:22 PM

elysive: captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.

I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.

Well, all you people are doing is shaming victims. I'm sure that rape victims dont suffer enough. They totally need more finger wagging from all the security experts on Fark. And it doesnt come off at all as if you are telling people it was their fault they got raped...even though their attackers made the important decision to do the crime.

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.


You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.
 
2013-03-17 01:21:40 PM

InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Ah, I see all the rape apologists are present, good, good.

These kids should be shot.  There I said it.

Remember guys: fingering a drunk girl earns you an execution.



No, but it earns you a rape conviction in Ohio.
 
2013-03-17 01:21:55 PM

99.998er: What about the dick on the video? Shouldn't he be tried? If for nothing less than his lame jokes. He just sat there and played to the video and did shiat. If ever there was was punchable, that prick is it.


He got immunity in exchange for his testimony, probably a good idea for the state and the victim, since apparently his testimony went a long way towards ensuring the conviction in the face of dozens of people who were declining to say anything to police. Now they need to go after the adults who tried to keep this quiet, imo.
 
2013-03-17 01:22:38 PM
Bontesla:

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.


Brilliant!  Now show me a way to tell in a party with dozens/hundreds of people how you determine the 'worthwhile' factor of any and all members of the party before you begin to drink.
 
2013-03-17 01:22:39 PM

InitialCommentGuy: These days children are taught from an early age of stranger danger.  Don't eat, drink, etc. anything given to you by a stranger.  Apparently they just mystically lose this understanding at 14-18.  I'm sorry, but taking drinks in that atmosphere is a huge no-no per everything we teach, but apparently it is alright to forget basic lessons as long as booze are involved?


Again, you're imparting perfect wisdom and judgement on a sixteen year old girl. Its the same underlying reason her attackers were tried in juvenile court and not the big leagues.
 
2013-03-17 01:23:04 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: Truly we should accept any and all drinks from anyone who gives them to us.

I mean, strangers don't exist where there's booze right?

If only all sixteen year olds were as wise and above it all as you.

These days children are taught from an early age of stranger danger.  Don't eat, drink, etc. anything given to you by a stranger.  Apparently they just mystically lose this understanding at 14-18.  I'm sorry, but taking drinks in that atmosphere is a huge no-no per everything we teach, but apparently it is alright to forget basic lessons as long as booze are involved?


captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???


So what would make you guys happy? Let these jerks go free to make an example of this girl's unsafe behavior? Wth do you hope to accomplish with your comments? Yes, there are stupid, drunk teens out there. Both the boys and the girl in this story probably qualify, only the boys were criminally bad.
 
2013-03-17 01:23:21 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Amazing how far you've departed from the facts in this case just to justify your "rape victims deserve everything <strike>I do to them</strike> they get" philosophy.

The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.

Tell us of your inability to follow this case.


Tell us why you think that her classmates were "strangers".
 
2013-03-17 01:23:43 PM

ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...


If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.
 
2013-03-17 01:23:48 PM
Trixie12: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

How can you raise your sons to respect women when you obviously don't. You do think that it's okay to rape someone in certain circumstances, i.e., if they're drunk.

Lil' hint: rape victims (female and male) have plenty of guilt and shame and second guessing that they put on themselves. They really don't need you to add to it.

Ask me how I know.
 
2013-03-17 01:24:24 PM
Jim_Tressel's_O-Face:

Again, you're imparting perfect wisdom and judgement on a sixteen year old girl. Its the same underlying reason her attackers were tried in juvenile court and not the big leagues.

I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.
 
2013-03-17 01:24:32 PM

Polyhazard: Trixie212: casey17: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

Those would be the words of Trixie212.

Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

Did you raise your sons to believe that a drunk woman has "just as much responsibility" for her rape as the rapist, or just your daughters?


Not that any of you are even trying to hear everything I've said since its only convenient to pick out what you want to make an issue with, let me say this one more time. The boys are to blame for touching her in any damned way and yes, I raised my sons to know that have any sexual contact with a drunk female was reprehensible. I also raised my daughters to understand that all boys were not raised to respect females so it was their responsibility to remain in control.
 
2013-03-17 01:25:05 PM

Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I said she SHARED respo ...


I have a question for you. If the girl had not been drinking at all and had just been out ("with her friends" as she thought she was) and this happened, would she still have "shared" responsibility for what happened to her?

Once again for the slow crowd, SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS WITH FRIENDS!  I'm willing to bet most of you have gone out & gotten blotto with your buddies - did it EVER cross your mind that they'd end up raping you & putting the video on display? She KNEW & TRUSTED these people - they weren't random people she'd just met at a local bar.

Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.
 
2013-03-17 01:25:12 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:


I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link


Anyone who assumes you shouldn't drink to comatose must be a sociopath/rapist/child abuser.

Yep, standard tactics out in force today.

One probably should not drink themselves into a coma in public (or drink at all IMHO), but if you are trying to say she deserved it then you're a giant douche. If you want to suggest some other labels for yourself, go for it.

I don't think I've read a single poster state that she deserved it.  The general sentiment seems to be that (A) people are NOT inherently good and that (B) drinking yourself into a coma leaves you vulnerable to the actions of such people.

But for some reason, this is difficult for a lot to understand here.  And apparently agreeing with the above makes you a rape apologist.

Well, all you people are doing is shaming victims. I'm sure that rape victims dont suffer enough. They totally need more finger wagging from all the security experts on Fark. And it doesnt come off at all as if you are telling people it was their fault they got raped...even though their attackers made the important decision to do the crime.

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.


You must really hate men. Contrary to your apparent belief, we're not all rapists. In fact, the best studies peg it as being around 6-10% of the population, coincidentally similar to the rate of sociopathy.
 
2013-03-17 01:25:14 PM

skwerl: First of all, I have no knowledge of the case other than what was presented in this one article so my opinion is based on generalities and not this particular case.

I'm bothered that a couple 16 year old boys get drunk and have sex, then get convicted of rape and go to jail for it. The 16 year old girl they had sex with is the 'victim' and has society fawning over her. If all you people up on your high and mighty horses want the two boys on the sexual predator's list for life, then the girl also needs to be put on the list for life.

Besides, the 'list' is a farce. Sex is a natural animal instinct practiced by every single living organism on earth. There are a few twisted individuals who overstep the bounds of accepted human decency but far too many are wrongly tattooed with the Scarlet Letter on their foreheads for life. 16 year old kids have hormones raging. All three of them got drunk and fell victim to natural human instinct.


So you're saying that teenage boys were just actling like teenage boys? I was a teenage boy and I never once dragged an underaged, unconscious girl out to my car, took her to a friend's house, and in front of a bunch of drunken kids proceeded to undress her and stick my fingers inside her while my buddies took photos and videotaped the incident, then published it on the internet. But hey, that was 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. What fun shenanigans boys get into today!

Sure, you can blame the victim and say that if she didn't want that, she shouldn't have gone to such a party and become inebriated. On the other hand, I'm guessing that you've gotten drunk before, but never once did you expect to wake up to find photos of yourself with some strange dude's fingers up your ass all over the internet. And should such a thing happen to you, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say to yourself, "Well, I guess I learned a valuable lesson about getting drunk. That guy was just doing what any normal guy would do by sticking his fingers up my ass." No, I'm fairly certain you'd be pretty farking upset about it.

So no, this was not just a couple of horny teenagers drinking too much. It was two farking entitled pieces of shiat, who have spent a good part of their lives with people telling them how awesome they are and often being excused from consequences that most other kids would have endured along the way, who figured this would improve their street cred among their buddies.

Then there's the question of whether they even realized what they had done was wrong, which is even more troubling. If not, this is a way of telling them in no uncertain terms that we, as a society, do not condone this type of behavior. And if they did know it was wrong, then WTF? Seriously, WTF? That's ever so much worse.

So no, I don't think this was just nature taking its course and boys being boys. If it was, then every 16-year-old kid would be raping unconscious girls.

But they don't. The ones that do get convicted and go to jail.
 
2013-03-17 01:25:17 PM

Popular Opinion: captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???

of course they shouldn't have to be.
but wake up for fark's sake.
you have to be.
apparently.
sadly.
true.


My post was heavily tongue-in-cheek.  Tis a sad and brutal world we live in.
 
2013-03-17 01:26:30 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: iaazathot: Lenny_da_Hog: adamgreeney: It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

Let me guess: You're another one who thinks the "War on Women" is waged by men.

Let me guess, you're another one who thinks men are being oppressed?  Yep, those poor, poor men...

That whooshing sound is the point flying over your head.

Authoritarian women are just as responsible for the oppression of women as authoritarian men are. Judgmental morality against women, from women, shouldn't surprise anyone. Go to a Wednesday night Bible study meeting in a small church basement sometime to see how authoritarian women think.


Ah, gotcha.  Yes, women are co-opted into patriarchy and help maintain it.  However, very few of them sit in the upper echelons.  For the most part it is men at the top.  Some women do jump on the opportunity to twist it to their advantage.  The research I did for my master's suggested that women who have a more masculine gender identity rise farther and get paid more than women who had more feminine gender identities.  It is estimated that something like what happened in Nazi Germany only requires a third of the population go along with it, given the right conditions.  Snitches, sellouts, and sympathizers exist in any oppressive system.
 
2013-03-17 01:26:39 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.

Brilliant!  Now show me a way to tell in a party with dozens/hundreds of people how you determine the 'worthwhile' factor of any and all members of the party before you begin to drink.


As a general rule of thumb - a worthwhile person doesn't rape others.

You're an idiot if you think that you can protect yourself against rape. There are things you can do - carry a whistle, carry coasters to test your drink for drugs, travel in groups, etc. to make you safer. But not doing these things does not make you responsible for your own rape nor does doing them it fully protect you from rape. Do you know why? Because NOTHING a victim does makes her/him responsible for rape.
 
2013-03-17 01:26:44 PM

InitialCommentGuy: The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.


You've no way of proving either way that they were strangers since the girl doesn't remember a damn thing.

Unless they found everyone who gave her a drink last night and had them testify under oath that they'd never met the girl before, you have no idea.

Of course, her taking drinks from strangers fits your narrative of her irresponsibility much better, so there we are.
 
2013-03-17 01:26:45 PM

casey17: Once again for the slow crowd, SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS WITH FRIENDS!  I'm willing to bet most of you have gone out & gotten blotto with your buddies - did it EVER cross your mind that they'd end up raping you & putting the video on display? She KNEW & TRUSTED these people - they weren't random people she'd just met at a local bar.

Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.


I do so enjoy that you believe that men are never told to not rape...
 
2013-03-17 01:27:04 PM

Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?


It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.
 
2013-03-17 01:27:12 PM

Bontesla: captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.


Why?

And how do you know who is "worthwhile" and who is not?  Especially when using drugs/alcohol.
 
2013-03-17 01:27:54 PM

Flying Lasagna Monster: Another negro gets put in a cage where he belongs.  What a shocker.


And another asshole gets sent to the Land of Nore.

*plonk*
 
2013-03-17 01:27:58 PM

casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I said she SHARED respo ...

I have a question for you. If the girl had not been drinking at all and had just been out ("with her friends" as she thought she was) and this happened, would she still have "shared" responsibility for what happened to her?

Once again for the slow crowd, SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS WITH FRIENDS!  I'm willing to bet most of you have gone out & gotten blotto with your buddies - did it EVER cross your mind that they'd end up raping you & putting the video on display? She KNEW & TRUSTED these people - they weren't random people she'd just met at a local bar.

Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.


No.
 
2013-03-17 01:28:24 PM

Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.


Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.
 
2013-03-17 01:29:12 PM

yelmrog: InitialCommentGuy: The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.

You've no way of proving either way that they were strangers since the girl doesn't remember a damn thing.

Unless they found everyone who gave her a drink last night and had them testify under oath that they'd never met the girl before, you have no idea.

Of course, her taking drinks from strangers fits your narrative of her irresponsibility much better, so there we are.


Even one drink from a stranger is enough to be drugged.  But again she did drink over six drinks if I recall the testimony... but no teenaged girl would pass out from six heavy drinks.
 
2013-03-17 01:29:12 PM

casey17: Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not.


Not this again.

Say no to drugs. If stopping people from committing crimes were as simple as telling people not to do it we wouldn't have any crime.
 
2013-03-17 01:30:18 PM

jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.


Because that totally agrees with what I said.
 
2013-03-17 01:31:08 PM
casey17:Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not. The fact that so many of you here seem to think it's a man's right to stick his dick where ever/when ever he pleases is sickening.

Doesn't help, for an obvious reason: the vast majority of men are not rapists. The ones who are are sociopaths like InitialCommentGuy, and telling them not to rape will not be successful, by definition. All we can do is publicly identify them and warn people so that they don't have an opportunity to rape, and simultaneously let them know that we're watching them and they won't find any sympathy or escape from prosecution with their "but she was drunk" or "but she was wearing a short skirt" or "but she's had sex before so she's a slut".
 
2013-03-17 01:31:16 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.


WOMEN ARE NEVER TO BLAME!  They are strong, powerful, goddesses who should rely heavily on the social contract to protect themselves.

Of course a court-enforced OOP is barely worth the paper it is printed on to protect a domestic abuse victim, but please let us sit and believe a vague "we're cool? no rape?" nudge prevents any and all from performing any heinous acts.
 
2013-03-17 01:31:41 PM

InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.


So you never were a teenager, you were formed onto this sinful Earth fully-formed with all-seeing wisdom and judgement over others. How nice.
 
2013-03-17 01:33:10 PM

InitialCommentGuy: yelmrog: InitialCommentGuy: The facts of the case, per witness testimony have her drinking several drinks and a vodka slushy during the party proffered from strangers.

You've no way of proving either way that they were strangers since the girl doesn't remember a damn thing.

Unless they found everyone who gave her a drink last night and had them testify under oath that they'd never met the girl before, you have no idea.

Of course, her taking drinks from strangers fits your narrative of her irresponsibility much better, so there we are.

Even one drink from a stranger is enough to be drugged.


I think three people have now pointed out that these weren't strangers, and you keep pushing this narrative. Why? Do you really think that we're not paying attention to what you're trying to do?
 
2013-03-17 01:33:14 PM
Theaetetus:

Doesn't help, for an obvious reason: the vast majority of men are not rapists. The ones who are are sociopaths like InitialCommentGuy, and telling them not to rape will not be successful, by definition. All we can do is publicly identify them and warn people so that they don't have an opportunity to rape, and simultaneously let them know that we're watching them and they won't find any sympathy or escape from prosecution with their "but she was drunk" or "but she was wearing a short skirt" or "but she's had sex before so she's a slut".

Yes, again.  Anyone who says something you disagree with must be a rapist.

BitingBeaver is that you?
 
2013-03-17 01:33:30 PM

InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.


On that note, you would be all for trying the perps as adults then, right? Obviously they should've known better, so why coddle them as juveniles?
 
2013-03-17 01:34:15 PM
According to the usage and conventions which are at last being questions but have by no means been overcome, the social presence of a woman is different in kind from that of a man. A man's presence is dependent upon the promise of power which he embodies. If the promise is large and credible is presence is striking. If it is small or incredible, he is found to have little presence. The promised power may be moral, physical, temperamental, economic, social, sexual - but its object is always exterior to a man. A man's presence suggests what he is capable of doing to you or for you. His presence may be fabricated, in the sense that he pretends to be capable of hat he is not. But the presence is always towards a power which he exercises on others.

By contrast, a woman's presence expresses her own attitude to herself, and defines what can and cannot be done to her. Her presence is manifested in her gestures, voice, opinions, expressions, clothes, chosen surroundings, taste - indeed there is nothing she can do which does not contribute to her presence. Presence for a woman is so intrinsic to her person that men tend to think of it as an almost physical emanation, a kind of heat or smell or aura.

One might simplify this by saying: men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves. The surveyor of women in herself is male: the surveyed female. Thus she turns herself into an object - and most particularly an object of vision: a sight.
  - John Berger

IMO they obviously raped her, and even though she did make a stupid choice of getting drunk. I know they are all teenagers, but they are obviously going to make stupid choices, but with the girl, she just made a choice that would only embarrassed herself if nothing else happened. These young boys decided to prey upon the girl who is obviously to drunk to notice anything. Just because she made a stupid mistake that as far as I know wasn't hurting anyone but herself; doesn't mean she deserved to get raped. She didn't deserve it, and her actions did not allow her to get it. We need to stop treating women to be careful how they act or look, because those might cause bad things to happen to her. Instead we need to start teaching men on not to hurt someone like a woman regardless of how they present themselves.
 
2013-03-17 01:34:20 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: Bontesla: captainmaxthedestroyer: InitialCommentGuy: Bontesla:

Also - specifically what qualifies as behaviors in which rape is likely? Unlocking your car door after work? Wearing a sweater? Wearing a skirt? Drinking in public? Being friends with men? Wearing red lipstick? Showing ankles?

No. Rape is never the victim's fault.

Drinking to excess while surrounded by people we don't know and then relying on said unknown quantity of strangers to protect us from any and all harm feels like a pretty farking good start.

Again, people are not required to look out for themselves.  That's not how the world works.  They shouldn't have to be worried about getting raped if they drink themselves stupid. Don't you get it???

I have this weird expectation that worthwhile human beings will not rape someone even if that other person is passed out.

I also have this understanding that rapists will rape. They could rape someone for any number of reasons that they've thought of. However, I have no obligation or desire to give credence to their reasons. Rape is rape. Rapists are responsible for rape. They have any number of reasons - none of which I recognize as valid or justified.

Why?

And how do you know who is "worthwhile" and who is not?  Especially when using drugs/alcohol.


My point - you've missed it. I'll restate it.

My point: not taking preventative measures does not guarantee you're safe from rape. Why? Because rapists do not obtain permission from their victims. It's rape.

Rapists will rape. The victims have no say in this. Even if they hide their ankles and travel in groups.

Trying to shift the blame off of the rapist and onto the victim is absurd. Obviously the victim had no say in his/her rape and trying to pretend that the rape could have been avoided if only . . . makes you a shi*tty person.
 
2013-03-17 01:34:30 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.

So you never were a teenager, you were formed onto this sinful Earth fully-formed with all-seeing wisdom and judgement over others. How nice.


I was a teenager.  I also didn't accept a drink I didn't personally mix/pour myself or give out a drink that wasn't witnessed being mixed by the person I made it for.

You do realize teenager doesn't equal moron to everyone right champ?
 
2013-03-17 01:34:59 PM
captainmaxthedestroyer:

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.

Please do tell us how men function, because you seem to be saying that he mere sight of a naked women sends men into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust and rapine. If that's the case the average life drawing/painting class should be banned forthwith! Art museums should have armed guards in every room!

Seriously are you saying that given the opportunity, the average dude would rape a vulnerable woman because he just can't help it? You certainly seem to have a low opinion of men's capacity for rationality.
 
2013-03-17 01:35:58 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.

On that note, you would be all for trying the perps as adults then, right? Obviously they should've known better, so why coddle them as juveniles?


Yes.

Your point?
 
2013-03-17 01:36:00 PM

Theaetetus: captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: InitialCommentGuy: casey17:

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.

You must really hate men. Contrary to your apparent belief, we're not all rapists. In fact, the best studies peg it as being around 6-10% of the population, coincidentally similar to the rate of sociopathy.


I'm not a rapist, either.  And during my college days, I had many drunken sluts and idiots escorted back to their rooms to safety and made it clear they weren't invited back due to their behavior.

But I do know that 10% exists.  And had one of them been the escort for those same intoxicated idiots I certainly would not have been surprised nor would I have felt the slightest bit of sympathy for them had they got that ass tore up.
 
2013-03-17 01:36:32 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Even one drink from a stranger is enough to be drugged.  But again she did drink over six drinks if I recall the testimony... but no teenaged girl would pass out from six heavy drinks


Again, you're assuming she was accepting drinks from strangers without proof either way.  You're also making assumptions about the alcohol content in the drinks without proof either way.  In fact, you assume quite a bit about this case for some reason.
 
2013-03-17 01:36:48 PM

Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".


There's no such thing as a gentle rape.
 
2013-03-17 01:36:50 PM

InitialCommentGuy: I was a teenager.  I also didn't accept a drink I didn't personally mix/pour myself or give out a drink that wasn't witnessed being mixed by the person I made it for.


Yes, yes, we know, your wisdom and maturity came with you straight from the womb. You have been immaculate since, never having slipped up or made a mistake. We can take your word for it, since you're being so judgemental on the internet.
 
2013-03-17 01:36:57 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.


Other way around, actually. Telling women that they're partially responsible if they're drinking, wearing short skirts, in the wrong part of town, out at the wrong time of night, etc. is really telling rapists that these are the conditions for targets for whom we will not prosecute. That's what helps rapists.
 
2013-03-17 01:37:29 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Yes.

Your point?


Just checking.
 
2013-03-17 01:38:02 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Theaetetus:

Doesn't help, for an obvious reason: the vast majority of men are not rapists. The ones who are are sociopaths like InitialCommentGuy, and telling them not to rape will not be successful, by definition. All we can do is publicly identify them and warn people so that they don't have an opportunity to rape, and simultaneously let them know that we're watching them and they won't find any sympathy or escape from prosecution with their "but she was drunk" or "but she was wearing a short skirt" or "but she's had sex before so she's a slut".

Yes, again.  Anyone who says something you disagree with must be a rapist.


I didn't call you a rapist. I called you a sociopath. I have no specific knowledge of whether you have or have not raped anyone, regardless of how likely I think it is.
 
2013-03-17 01:38:17 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: I was a teenager.  I also didn't accept a drink I didn't personally mix/pour myself or give out a drink that wasn't witnessed being mixed by the person I made it for.

Yes, yes, we know, your wisdom and maturity came with you straight from the womb. You have been immaculate since, never having slipped up or made a mistake. We can take your word for it, since you're being so judgemental on the internet.


Or, again, you could realize that not all people were teenage idiots.  Indeed I find that teenage idiocy continues through adulthood, as demonstrated in your strangely savant-level of riding my dick.
 
2013-03-17 01:40:07 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.


Why do you think blaming rape victims is helpful to women or rape victims?

The only risk factor for being raped is being in the presence of a rapist. Most of the time - the victim isn't aware they're in the presence of a rapist until after the rape.

Wearing frumpy clothes doesn't prevent rape. Traveling in groups doesn't prevent rape. Drinking doesn't prevent rape.

Suggesting that if only this girl remained sober, she wouldn't have been raped is absurd and speculative.

Teaching people that you can avoid rape if you follow these things is incredibly cruel to the victims that have followed all of the rules and still ended up being raped.
 
2013-03-17 01:40:17 PM

Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I sa ...


So you're saying that rape is ok if the woman is drunk, not ok if she's sober?  Because that's what it sounds like by saying that she "doesn't share responsibility" for being raped if she's sober.
 
2013-03-17 01:40:58 PM
Ah Fark Rape threads. Once again proving that sociopathy isn't a rare quality around these parts.
 
2013-03-17 01:41:21 PM

Bender The Offender: Popcorn Johnny: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.

If by "girlfriend" you mean your "right hand"


Now, be fair.  He could be lefthanded.
 
2013-03-17 01:41:25 PM

Tak the Hideous New Girl: captainmaxthedestroyer:

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.

Please do tell us how men function, because you seem to be saying that he mere sight of a naked women sends men into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust and rapine. If that's the case the average life drawing/painting class should be banned forthwith! Art museums should have armed guards in every room!

Seriously are you saying that given the opportunity, the average dude would rape a vulnerable woman because he just can't help it? You certainly seem to have a low opinion of men's capacity for rationality.


I wish I could say that this sort of viewpoint is rare, but it isn't.  My wife and I taught self-defense on a college campus.  It was a co-ed class, because it was for credit.  Overall, it was a very successful class that actually allowed both men and women to protect themselves in real life situations.  One semester (out of four) we had a psychology master's student come and ask us if we could hold a workshop for the men in the class.  One thing it told me was that my ability to pick out douchebags is spot on.  Some of the beliefs and things that came out of these young mens' mouths was truly disturbing.

Luckily, people like the chucklehead you are sparring with are not the majority, but they are definitely out there in significant numbers and have built a self-verification system that allows them to believe all sorts of farked-up stuff.
 
2013-03-17 01:41:42 PM

adamgreeney: It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.


Given the percentage of men being wrongly accused of rape (Yes maybe a rape did occur but the wrong person is accused) I treat all rape allegations with a high degree of of skepticism.

"Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect."

The authors continued, "these percentages have remained constant for 7 years, and the National Institute of Justice's informal survey of private laboratories reveals a strikingly similar 26 percent exclusion rate"

Link

And then there is this:

Former California Football Standout, Cleared of Rape, Kidnapping Conviction


"Banks, who is 26 today, was just 17 when his classmate, Wanetta Gibson - who he'd known since middle school - told authorities he sexually assaulted her."

"After being charged with rape and kidnapping in 2002, Banks took a plea deal on the advice of his lawyer to avoid spending the rest of his life behind bars despite knowing he was innocent. His accuser, Wanetta Gibson, collected $1.5 million after suing the school over lack of safety on campus"

anks was sentenced to six years, ruining his football career and was forced to wear an ankle bracelet after being released on parole in 2008.

While the Bank's future seemed bleak - another potential star athlete ruining their life with one bad decision - the unbelievable happened February 28, 2011, when Gibson requested his friendship on Facebook.

"Why would you friend request me?" Banks asked Gibson over Facebook. "The reply was, 'I figured you and I could let bygones be bygones. I was immature then, but I'm much more mature now.'"

CBS reports Gibson then met with Banks in person and pledged to help him clear his name, but she was reluctant to reiterate her story to prosecutors because she didn't want to give back the $1.5 million civil judgment awarded to her.


Despite Gibson's hesitance, Banks was able to secretly record her admitting his innocence, which was enough for a Los Angeles County Superior Court judge to reverse the conviction."
 
2013-03-17 01:41:45 PM

Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.

Because that totally agrees with what I said.


What you SAID is that once a girl become intoxicated, she is just as responsible for being raped as the person who rapes her.

You say your children understand this as well. Your sons believe now that they are 100% responsible for raping a sober girl, but only 50% responsible if she had something to drink.

You are telling them that their own responsibility for rape can be mitigated by the victim's decision to drink.
 
2013-03-17 01:42:41 PM
Lock these bastards up and throw away the ley.
 
2013-03-17 01:43:07 PM

Tak the Hideous New Girl: captainmaxthedestroyer:

/i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.

Please do tell us how men function, because you seem to be saying that he mere sight of a naked women sends men into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust and rapine. If that's the case the average life drawing/painting class should be banned forthwith! Art museums should have armed guards in every room!

Seriously are you saying that given the opportunity, the average dude would rape a vulnerable woman because he just can't help it? You certainly seem to have a low opinion of men's capacity for rationality.


Ok.

Let's assume that I'm in my apartment and a hot naked woman walks down my street and into my view.  My first thought would be, "WTF" and then in almost a split instant I would have between one and ten thousand images of lust pass before my vision and one of those would likely ignite a surge in my nether region.  And then, because I'm a better man than I am male, I would let that thought slip away and I would return to drinking my coffee wondering why that stupid white girl was walking naked down my street.

But not all males are good men.  That's the issue here.
 
2013-03-17 01:44:16 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Or, again, you could realize that not all people were teenage idiots.  Indeed I find that teenage idiocy continues through adulthood, as demonstrated in your strangely savant-level of riding my dick.


Yes, because teengers who get in over their heads should obviously be judged like adults.

And its not my fault you're swinging it around to show off just how morally superior you are to all of us plebes.
 
2013-03-17 01:44:42 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Big Ramifications: Could you have chosen a more pissweak light-on-facts news story if you tried? The comments section alludes to so much more. Very frustrating.

Came to say pretty much this.  The NYT has a nice reprise of the trial.


legend, thx
 
2013-03-17 01:44:54 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: elysive: /i would never walk naked in a bad neighborhood but I really should be able to do so safely, because a naked woman does not force a man into violent copulation. That's the most retarded argument men ever tried to put over on women.

You are clearly farked in the head.  And clearly, you do not understand how the world and more specifically, males function.



Oh, so you want to warn women about how males function. You know, I'm quite familiar with how guys like you think. It was no small factor in learning self defense. I'm not one of those looney, drunk in public, risk taking females...but I defend those people's safety. It annoys me when people go out of their way blame them for crimes enacted by real predators.

Our society is structured such that men use all sorts of lame excuses for sex crime when in places like France, nudity is commonplace. Get over yourself and stop trying to justify your male fantasies. A penis does not make a person special. Men can control their urges just as well as women. When they dont, it's a product of culture, not biology..and I stick by my original statement that society should allow me to dress or undress however I want without fear of violence. We dont live in the Middle East.
 
2013-03-17 01:44:58 PM
I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

See Trixie, this is why people think you are a horrible person (for the record I think you are a horrible person too).

You have a crying, traumatized girl (your daughter!) who's worried that she got a disease or is pregnant, is terrified that there pictures of her shame are all over Twitter or Facebook (something I did not have to worry about back in the dinosaur age, thank goodness), and your reaction is to tell your daughter, "Too bad, so sad, you should have made better choices."
 
2013-03-17 01:45:06 PM
I heard about this when the victim went against a court order and posted the names of the 'juvenile offenders' to everyone who would listen. It was when she faced jail time for speaking out as a victim. that others got involved. A year? Pffffttttt. However, these boys names are shot. No hiding from the Internet.
 
2013-03-17 01:45:10 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: Let's assume that I'm in my apartment and a hot naked woman walks down my street and into my view.  My first thought would be, "WTF" and then in almost a split instant I would have between one and ten thousand images of lust pass before my vision and one of those would likely ignite a surge in my nether region.  And then, because I'm a better man than I am male, I would let that thought slip away and I would return to drinking my coffee wondering why that stupid white girl was walking naked down my street.

But not all males are good men.  That's the issue here.


But. But. But the social contract!
 
2013-03-17 01:45:17 PM

casey17: Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One more time, moron. I sa ...

So you're saying that rape is ok if the woman is drunk, not ok if she's sober?  Because that's what it sounds like by saying that she "doesn't share responsibility" for being raped if she's sober.


I think in this case, nothing would have happened to her had she remained sober. I don't think that excuses what they did to her. Still, I really believe her night would have gone in an entirely different direction had she passed on the booze. At this point, I'm just worn out with trying to help anyone understand what I'm saying. At no time have I said the boys should get a pass.
 
2013-03-17 01:45:58 PM
www.movie-poster-artwork-finder.com

You know...maybe it's just wishful thinking, but there's a part of me that wishes that a small team of "justice-bringers" would start keeping a list of people that got slaps on the wrist for things that completely destroyed another person's life, and then hunted them to extinction.

Or if they didn't kill them, then at least inflicted the same pain, humiliation, and shame on their victims...publicly.  Like sending around pics on the interwebs of these guys passed out drunk with brooms shoved up their poop-chutes so everyone can laugh at them, and call them broom-buddies.  You know...justice that inflicts the feelings of victimhood upon them that they so gleefully handed out to another.

Yeah...wishful thinking...I know.
 
2013-03-17 01:46:40 PM

InitialCommentGuy: I was a teenager.  I also didn't accept a drink I didn't personally mix/pour myself or give out a drink that wasn't witnessed being mixed by the person I made it for.


Okay that's a pretty good one.  I Lol'd.
 
2013-03-17 01:46:44 PM

hasty ambush: Given the percentage of men being wrongly accused of rape (Yes maybe a rape did occur but the wrong person is accused) I treat all rape allegations with a high degree of of skepticism.


You found a 25% failure rate and some ancedotes to back up your misogyny. Congratulations.
 
2013-03-17 01:46:56 PM

elysive: Oh, so you want to warn women about how males function. You know, I'm quite familiar with how guys like you think. It was no small factor in learning self defense. I'm not one of those looney, drunk in public, risk taking females...but I defend those people's safety. It annoys me when people go out of their way blame them for crimes enacted by real predators.


Words on websites don't defend against rape.  Slacktivist.
 
2013-03-17 01:47:15 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: yelmrog: captainmaxthedestroyer: Perhaps the underage retarded girl who got black-out drunk in an unsafe environment learned her lesson as well?

Probably not.

She was totally asking for it, right?

Not saying that.  And I'm not saying that rape isn't wrong or even that it wasn't rape in this case.  It appears it was.

I'm saying that if you get shiat-faced and pass out face down, ass up, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced and get behind the wheel, there's a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.

If you get shiat-faced at a bar and start talking shiat to somebody, there is a solid chance that something bad is going to happen to you.


clothdiapermalaysia.com
 
2013-03-17 01:47:22 PM

DrewCurtisJr: casey17: Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not.

Not this again.

Say no to drugs. If stopping people from committing crimes were as simple as telling people not to do it we wouldn't have any crime.


First off, doing drugs isn't the same as rape. But yes, I know what you're saying......I just don't understand *why* all these men/boys think it's perfectly all right to help themselves to another persons' body. WHY aren't their parents teaching them it's WRONG? WHERE are they getting the idea that it's acceptable behavior?
 
2013-03-17 01:47:27 PM

Polyhazard: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.

Because that totally agrees with what I said.

What you SAID is that once a girl become intoxicated, she is just as responsible for being raped as the person who rapes her.

You say your children understand this as well. Your sons believe now that they are 100% responsible for raping a sober girl, but only 50% responsible if she had something to drink.

You are telling them that their own responsibility for rape can be mitigated by the victim's decision to drink.


Spent a lot of time twisting that, didn't you?
 
2013-03-17 01:47:56 PM

SubBass49: [www.movie-poster-artwork-finder.com image 487x700]

You know...maybe it's just wishful thinking, but there's a part of me that wishes that a small team of "justice-bringers" would start keeping a list of people that got slaps on the wrist for things that completely destroyed another person's life, and then hunted them to extinction.

Or if they didn't kill them, then at least inflicted the same pain, humiliation, and shame on their victims...publicly.  Like sending around pics on the interwebs of these guys passed out drunk with brooms shoved up their poop-chutes so everyone can laugh at them, and call them broom-buddies.  You know...justice that inflicts the feelings of victimhood upon them that they so gleefully handed out to another.

Yeah...wishful thinking...I know.


Wishful thinking including rape and murder. Excellent.
 
2013-03-17 01:48:30 PM
One year in juvenile detention? That's it?

Our country is farked up.
 
2013-03-17 01:49:08 PM

natmar_76: Our country is farked up.


You should read the thread.
 
2013-03-17 01:49:23 PM

Popular Opinion: sobe: Whole Wheat: Never in my most drunken days of high school or college would I have imagined this to be alright. Maybe the parents of S-ville should focus less on sports and more on morality.

I'm sure they consider themselves an upright Christian god-fearing community.

nobody who truly fears god would do such a thing.


Well, that's true as far as it goes. All you have to do is create a god who is OK with whatever it is you want to do -- or modify your god's will if you change your mind -- and off you go. (And really, that's the whole point of creating a god, isn't it? To relieve yourself of the responsibility of having to honestly think about things?)

God-fearing, Christian slaveholders went to church, convinced that god had sent them the blacks to serve them.
 
2013-03-17 01:49:50 PM

aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.


Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the form of civil judgments against those involved. I wonder how much of it will be covered by various home owner insurance policies.

You can see in this very thread, despite the abundance of evidence in this case to rape, how many rape apologists there are. How many who say the victim is somehow responsible. Those are the type of people too stupid to get out of jury duty adjudicating these cases.
 
2013-03-17 01:50:15 PM

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: [www.movie-poster-artwork-finder.com image 487x700]

You know...maybe it's just wishful thinking, but there's a part of me that wishes that a small team of "justice-bringers" would start keeping a list of people that got slaps on the wrist for things that completely destroyed another person's life, and then hunted them to extinction.

Or if they didn't kill them, then at least inflicted the same pain, humiliation, and shame on their victims...publicly.  Like sending around pics on the interwebs of these guys passed out drunk with brooms shoved up their poop-chutes so everyone can laugh at them, and call them broom-buddies.  You know...justice that inflicts the feelings of victimhood upon them that they so gleefully handed out to another.

Yeah...wishful thinking...I know.

Wishful thinking including rape and murder. Excellent.


Only to be "gifted" to those that have done the same, and not been properly punished.  But yeah...
 
2013-03-17 01:50:35 PM

Trixie212: Polyhazard: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.

Because that totally agrees with what I said.

What you SAID is that once a girl become intoxicated, she is just as responsible for being raped as the person who rapes her.

You say your children understand this as well. Your sons believe now that they are 100% responsible for raping a sober girl, but only 50% responsible if she had something to drink.

You are telling them that their own responsibility for rape can be mitigated by the victim's decision to drink.

Spent a lot of time twisting that, didn't you?


Do you believe that blame is shared equally by the rapist and a drunken victim or not?
 
2013-03-17 01:50:39 PM

Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One mo ...


I've got your back.

...only with your permission though.  And if you're not drinking.
 
2013-03-17 01:51:15 PM

Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Tak the Hideous New Girl: casey17: Trixie212: adamgreeney: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: She got finger banged. What that poor girl in India went through on that bus was brutal.

Cuz if one thing is bad other things can't be bad, too

I didn't say that. In fact, the other part of my post said that she didn't deserve for them to touch her. I still don't believe it qualified as being "brutal".

I imagine it was quite brutal to her. Good god, it is probably the worst thing that will happen to her and will stay with her for life. Just because worse things happen doesn't mean she should have a stiff upper lip and move on.

I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

But at the end of the day, the consequences began with the choices she made. If this girls' former friends are to be believed, she was a bit of a train wreck. Ideally, she could be a train wreck and affect no one other than herself but we all know that's not the way society works.

The boys will pay the consequences for this all the rest of their days. Rightly so? Maybe. I just think she shares in the responsibility of what happened to her.

I feel so sorry for your daughter. I can see her ending up like this poor girl. Link

I don't even know who did the bolded bit but Holy fark. Really?

It's depressing enough to see all the men jumping to defend their rape fantasies, but when a MOTHER is saying the girl is to blame, and that what happened to her wasn't "brutal" and dismissing it as just "getting finger banged," it's even more sickening.

One mo ...


So the Rape Squad only rapes unconscious women? Got any citation for that?
 
2013-03-17 01:51:26 PM

SubBass49: Only to be "gifted" to those that have done the same, and not been properly punished.  But yeah...


Yep.  Eye for an eye justice is a great idea.  I'm guessing you lack depth perception.
 
2013-03-17 01:51:43 PM

knobmaker: Bender The Offender: Popcorn Johnny: Musikslayer: Popcorn Johnny:  drunken, consensual

Oxymoron, dumbass.

Drunk people never have consensual sex? I guess I'm guilty of raping my girlfriend about 237 times.

If by "girlfriend" you mean your "right hand"

Now, be fair.  He could be lefthanded.


Or he could have no hands and uses his feet instead.
 
2013-03-17 01:51:50 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: I am sorry that I assume a basic wisdom so simple it can be imparted to a five year old to have been included in a teenager's repertoire of 'how not to fark up my life'.

So you never were a teenager, you were formed onto this sinful Earth fully-formed with all-seeing wisdom and judgement over others. How nice.

I was a teenager.  I also didn't accept a drink I didn't personally mix/pour myself or give out a drink that wasn't witnessed being mixed by the person I made it for.

You do realize teenager doesn't equal moron to everyone right champ?


Unless you are intently staring at your drink for the duration of your evening, there is a chance someone can slip something into it after you mix/pour it yourself. Turn your head to talk to a friend and somebody can slip something into it. I had a chance to review some security footage at a bar I used to bartend at after a customer thought she got a mickey. Sure enough she turned her head for about 20 seconds, even had her hand still around the glass and some guy sidled up next to her and his hand went over her glass. Thank God nothing worse actually happened to her that night.
 
2013-03-17 01:52:17 PM

SubBass49: [www.movie-poster-artwork-finder.com image 487x700]

You know...maybe it's just wishful thinking, but there's a part of me that wishes that a small team of "justice-bringers" would start keeping a list of people that got slaps on the wrist for things that completely destroyed another person's life, and then hunted them to extinction.

Or if they didn't kill them, then at least inflicted the same pain, humiliation, and shame on their victims...publicly.  Like sending around pics on the interwebs of these guys passed out drunk with brooms shoved up their poop-chutes so everyone can laugh at them, and call them broom-buddies.  You know...justice that inflicts the feelings of victimhood upon them that they so gleefully handed out to another.

Yeah...wishful thinking...I know.


we had one, but we messed up and offed the wrong guy
www.catman.ca
 
2013-03-17 01:52:23 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: natmar_76: Our country is farked up.

You should read the thread.


This.
 
2013-03-17 01:52:29 PM

Tak the Hideous New Girl: I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

See Trixie, this is why people think you are a horrible person (for the record I think you are a horrible person too).

You have a crying, traumatized girl (your daughter!) who's worried that she got a disease or is pregnant, is terrified that there pictures of her shame are all over Twitter or Facebook (something I did not have to worry about back in the dinosaur age, thank goodness), and your reaction is to tell your daughter, "Too bad, so sad, you should have made better choices."


I already understood what people thought. You're entitled to feel the way you do. I've been on Fark for a number of years and have taken exception to a lot of things people have said but I've never told anyone they were a horrible person.
 
2013-03-17 01:53:04 PM

casey17: DrewCurtisJr: casey17: Why is it we have to tell girls/women not to drink, not to "dress provocatively" etc., but guys aren't told NOT TO RAPE? It should be a given, but apparently it's not.

Not this again.

Say no to drugs. If stopping people from committing crimes were as simple as telling people not to do it we wouldn't have any crime.

First off, doing drugs isn't the same as rape. But yes, I know what you're saying......I just don't understand *why* all these men/boys think it's perfectly all right to help themselves to another persons' body. WHY aren't their parents teaching them it's WRONG? WHERE are they getting the idea that it's acceptable behavior?


I think this question brings up a whole lot of issues that we as a society just don't want to deal with. Issues of women as commodities/decorations/fark holes as opposed to people (examples of which you can see on Fark about a thousand times a day) and male privilege. These are things that make the average person (not just men) run away screaming.
 
2013-03-17 01:53:17 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: InitialCommentGuy: Truly we should accept any and all drinks from anyone who gives them to us.

I mean, strangers don't exist where there's booze right?

If only all sixteen year olds were as wise and above it all as you.

These days children are taught from an early age of stranger danger.  Don't eat, drink, etc. anything given to you by a stranger.  Apparently they just mystically lose this understanding at 14-18.  I'm sorry, but taking drinks in that atmosphere is a huge no-no per everything we teach, but apparently it is alright to forget basic lessons as long as booze are involved?


the problem isn't what we teach, its how we teach it.  I was raised in a very authoritarian home, in which the rules of life were dictated and expected to be followed on blind faith alone.  rather than appealing to reason as the method for teaching morality, my parents followed a set of rigid memes which have been passed on from generation to generation.  Many of these ideas are intrinsically good - based on a sense of empathy for others, but the problem is they are not taught at all, but enforced as canonical law.  This is almost the polar opposite of the curiosity, enjoyment of experiment, and general yearning to understand the world around us that has elevated humanity to incredible heights given the limitations and challenges we face from nature.  So the authoritative system we use to enforce morals which in principle are good, represses the curious nature that is embedded in our genes.  And surprise, surprise, you end up with the rebellious teenage years where the stirring of hormones opens up the need for experiment that has been bottled up for years.
 
2013-03-17 01:54:07 PM

MagSeven: Unless you are intently staring at your drink for the duration of your evening, there is a chance someone can slip something into it after you mix/pour it yourself. Turn your head to talk to a friend and somebody can slip something into it. I had a chance to review some security footage at a bar I used to bartend at after a customer thought she got a mickey. Sure enough she turned her head for about 20 seconds, even had her hand still around the glass and some guy sidled up next to her and his hand went over her glass. Thank God nothing worse actually happened to her that night.


Of course! All of those nights of roofie-riddled slumber caused when I didn't do proper attending to my drinks!  I should have thought about it!

Good of you to make up a nice lie there though.
 
2013-03-17 01:54:09 PM

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Only to be "gifted" to those that have done the same, and not been properly punished.  But yeah...

Yep.  Eye for an eye justice is a great idea.  I'm guessing you lack depth perception.


Eye-for-an-eye justice which would be completely unnecessary if the RAPIST SCUM got a sentence that was commensurate with the horrific crimes they committed.

If the justice system works, there is no need for my wish to come true.  This is a case that proves that it doesn't work.
 
2013-03-17 01:55:46 PM

Trixie212: Polyhazard: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.

Because that totally agrees with what I said.

What you SAID is that once a girl become intoxicated, she is just as responsible for being raped as the person who rapes her.

You say your children understand this as well. Your sons believe now that they are 100% responsible for raping a sober girl, but only 50% responsible if she had something to drink.

You are telling them that their own responsibility for rape can be mitigated by the victim's decision to drink.

Spent a lot of time twisting that, didn't you?


What part did Polyhazard twist? That falls in line with everything you've posted. You even said that if the girl had been sober she wouldn't have "shared responsibility" in what happened to her.
 
2013-03-17 01:55:58 PM

Theaetetus: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.

Other way around, actually. Telling women that they're partially responsible if they're drinking, wearing short skirts, in the wrong part of town, out at the wrong time of night, etc. is really telling rapists that these are the conditions for targets for whom we will not prosecute. That's what helps rapists.


It's kind of both.

Boys should be bludgeoned with the "it's never rape" dogma, and girls should be bludgeoned with the "don't be a moran" dogma.
 
2013-03-17 01:56:43 PM

SubBass49: InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Only to be "gifted" to those that have done the same, and not been properly punished.  But yeah...

Yep.  Eye for an eye justice is a great idea.  I'm guessing you lack depth perception.

Eye-for-an-eye justice which would be completely unnecessary if the RAPIST SCUM got a sentence that was commensurate with the horrific crimes they committed.

If the justice system works, there is no need for my wish to come true.  This is a case that proves that it doesn't work.


It works just as intended in this case.  I apologize that you think that they should serve life sentences or be raped for their crimes.

I also laugh at the people in the thread who believe these guys are facing shower rape due to their crimes.  Football players in juvie are going to be nigh untouchable, but that need for vengeance beyond thought seems popular in your type.
 
2013-03-17 01:56:48 PM

Lady Indica: aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.

Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the form of civil judgments against those involved. I wonder how much of it will be covered by various home owner insurance policies.

You can see in this very thread, despite the abundance of evidence in this case to rape, how many rape apologists there are. How many who say the victim is somehow responsible. Those are the type of people too stupid to get out of jury duty adjudicating these cases.


You're the only person I've got favorited. You're a generally awesome person, so I feel the need to step up here.

When someone gets behind the wheel of a car with alcohol in their system, and then gets involved in a traffic accident, no matter who was actually at fault, the drunk driver is recorded as being at fault. These are matters of life and death, and the person who chose to drink and do something dangerous is always at fault.

The guys who raped this girl are assholes, and I'd send them to the Wall, but I don't get how people can say that the girl is absolved of all responsibility, when the precedence is the drunk person is always responsible for what happens to themselves and others.
 
2013-03-17 01:57:10 PM

casey17: WHY aren't their parents teaching them it's WRONG? WHERE are they getting the idea that it's acceptable behavior?


Again it's not that simple. Some people know something is wrong, but they do it anyway.
 
2013-03-17 01:57:14 PM
Get really drunk = Somehow you deserve to be raped

Rape someone = Somehow you deserve to spend a year at summer camp

This is not justice.
 
2013-03-17 01:57:32 PM

casey17: Trixie212: Polyhazard: Trixie212: jaytkay: Trixie212: Yep. Shame on me. I raised my sons to treat women with respect and I raised my daughters to understand that all boys aren't raised the way their brothers were. I raised all of my kids to understand that if they CHOSE to engage in dangerous behavior, consequences would ensue. Should I have raised them to expect cotton candy and roses from everybody they came in contact with?

It's great that your boys can walk the Earth with confidence because Mom will look on with admiration and approval when they date rape some slut to teach her a lesson.

Because that totally agrees with what I said.

What you SAID is that once a girl become intoxicated, she is just as responsible for being raped as the person who rapes her.

You say your children understand this as well. Your sons believe now that they are 100% responsible for raping a sober girl, but only 50% responsible if she had something to drink.

You are telling them that their own responsibility for rape can be mitigated by the victim's decision to drink.

Spent a lot of time twisting that, didn't you?

What part did Polyhazard twist? That falls in line with everything you've posted. You even said that if the girl had been sober she wouldn't have "shared responsibility" in what happened to her.


Completely missed the part where I said I taught my sons that having any sexual contact with a drunk female is reprehensible.
 
2013-03-17 01:58:16 PM

InitialCommentGuy: elysive: Oh, so you want to warn women about how males function. You know, I'm quite familiar with how guys like you think. It was no small factor in learning self defense. I'm not one of those looney, drunk in public, risk taking females...but I defend those people's safety. It annoys me when people go out of their way blame them for crimes enacted by real predators.

Words on websites don't defend against rape.  Slacktivist.


Wow, this like the first time youve actually replied to me after ignoring my other replies to your posts...did I say something sexy?

My activism has nothing to do with this website. In fact, to be honest most of it was in college. Would you like to know any other vague facts about me?
 
2013-03-17 01:58:46 PM

Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.

Why do you think blaming rape victims is helpful to women or rape victims?

The only risk factor for being raped is being in the presence of a rapist. Most of the time - the victim isn't aware they're in the presence of a rapist until after the rape.

Wearing frumpy clothes doesn't prevent rape. Traveling in groups doesn't prevent rape. Drinking doesn't prevent rape.

Suggesting that if only this girl remained sober, she wouldn't have been raped is absurd and speculative.

Teaching people that you can avoid rape if you follow these things is incredibly cruel to the victims that have followed all of the rules and still ended up being raped.


I do understand what you are saying, right up until that last sentence.  Statistically speaking, you are less likely to be raped or sexually assaulted if drugs and/or alcohol are not involved.  Probabilities decrease, but never fall to zero.

As a self-defense instructor, it would be patently irresponsible for me to not discuss these facts with the people who come to me for advice and help.  The difference is leaving the judgement factor out of it.  I don't judge a victim, after the fact, for having been intoxicated.  It serves no purpose to do so, and would be cruel and uncaring.

Your statements about what does and doesn't prevent rape is a binary one, and doesn't reflect statistical reality.  More rapes happen in isolation than not. More rapes happen when drugs and alcohol are present (this can vary by culture and extreme circumstance (war for example) I am speaking about American culture right now).  The dressing thing is really complex and difficult to parse, so I will side with you on that.

Pointing out statistical facts to people increases their ability to make  choices for themselves that could keep them out of trouble.  Your last sentence says that I should refrain from that to protect the sensitivities of those who fall into another statistical spectrum (through no fault of there own).  That would be very irresponsible for me as a self-defense instructor.  How I go about that is, of course, very important, and that is where the judgement factor needs to be left out.

When you are talking about helping people, you have the leave the judgement of victims AND the righteous anger out of the equation, because it is not you who is making the choices.  It is them, and people can only make good choices if they have good information.

I am sorry for your pain.  Obviously, as with me, this is a personal issue for you.
 
2013-03-17 01:58:59 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Of course! All of those nights of roofie-riddled slumber caused when I didn't do proper attending to my drinks!  I should have thought about it!


All that time you spent watching your drink as a teenager could have been better spent doing other things.  I doubt you had much to worry about.
 
2013-03-17 01:59:22 PM

SubBass49: Get really drunk = Somehow you deserve to be raped

Rape someone = Somehow you deserve to spend a year at summer camp

This is not justice.


I get that logic is difficult if not impossible for you as you consider God Bless America a movie to be idolized.  Deserving to be raped has nothing to do with it.  The expectation of bad things happening when you decide to let Mr. Daniels take the wheel of your consciousness is different from Deserving To Be Raped.
 
2013-03-17 02:01:27 PM

natmar_76: One year in juvenile detention? That's it?

Our country is farked up.


I wonder what sentence the victim got, being "half responsible" and all.
 
2013-03-17 02:01:50 PM

InitialCommentGuy: MagSeven: Unless you are intently staring at your drink for the duration of your evening, there is a chance someone can slip something into it after you mix/pour it yourself. Turn your head to talk to a friend and somebody can slip something into it. I had a chance to review some security footage at a bar I used to bartend at after a customer thought she got a mickey. Sure enough she turned her head for about 20 seconds, even had her hand still around the glass and some guy sidled up next to her and his hand went over her glass. Thank God nothing worse actually happened to her that night.

Of course! All of those nights of roofie-riddled slumber caused when I didn't do proper attending to my drinks!  I should have thought about it!

Good of you to make up a nice lie there though.


Lie? Ok man.
/You got me. I fell for the troll bait.
 
2013-03-17 02:01:57 PM

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Only to be "gifted" to those that have done the same, and not been properly punished.  But yeah...

Yep.  Eye for an eye justice is a great idea.  I'm guessing you lack depth perception.

Eye-for-an-eye justice which would be completely unnecessary if the RAPIST SCUM got a sentence that was commensurate with the horrific crimes they committed.

If the justice system works, there is no need for my wish to come true.  This is a case that proves that it doesn't work.

It works just as intended in this case.   I apologize that you think that they should serve life sentences or be raped for their crimes.

I also laugh at the people in the thread who believe these guys are facing shower rape due to their crimes.  Football players in juvie are going to be nigh untouchable, but that need for vengeance beyond thought seems popular in your type.


Life sentences?  I never said that.  Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.  Something more appropriate would have been a middle ground though.  Serving until age 18 in a juvenile facility, followed by transfer to an adult facility for a term of 5 years additional, plus lifetime registration as sex offenders.  THAT sentence would seem just.  THAT sentence would have me completely satisfied.  ONE year is a farking joke, and you know it.  They know it too.
 
2013-03-17 02:02:01 PM

elysive: InitialCommentGuy: elysive: Oh, so you want to warn women about how males function. You know, I'm quite familiar with how guys like you think. It was no small factor in learning self defense. I'm not one of those looney, drunk in public, risk taking females...but I defend those people's safety. It annoys me when people go out of their way blame them for crimes enacted by real predators.

Words on websites don't defend against rape.  Slacktivist.

Wow, this like the first time youve actually replied to me after ignoring my other replies to your posts...did I say something sexy?

My activism has nothing to do with this website. In fact, to be honest most of it was in college. Would you like to know any other vague facts about me?


It's alright.  I mean, not all of us can actually do anything about the issues we decide to froth at the mouth at.  Impotent posting on a forum works for you!
 
2013-03-17 02:03:40 PM

SubBass49: Life sentences?  I never said that.  Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.  Something more appropriate would have been a middle ground though.  Serving until age 18 in a juvenile facility, followed by transfer to an adult facility for a term of 5 years additional, plus lifetime registration as sex offenders.  THAT sentence would seem just.  THAT sentence would have me completely satisfied.  ONE year is a farking joke, and you know it.  They know it too.



Welcome to sentencing guidelines.  Being fingered while intoxicated in Ohio gets a year.  Want a change?  Talk to your local legislature.
 
2013-03-17 02:05:35 PM

mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 850x725]


Well now... humming a tune... nodding the head and groovin before the verdict.... crying like a biatch after... too little too late for my taste. I hope it was good poontang bro...
 
2013-03-17 02:06:34 PM
Why would I want to read a fark thread about sex related issues?

I've read enough fark teacher-student threads.
 
2013-03-17 02:06:48 PM

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Get really drunk = Somehow you deserve to be raped

Rape someone = Somehow you deserve to spend a year at summer camp

This is not justice.

I get that logic is difficult if not impossible for you as you consider God Bless America a movie to be idolized.  Deserving to be raped has nothing to do with it.  The expectation of bad things happening when you decide to let Mr. Daniels take the wheel of your consciousness is different from Deserving To Be Raped.


I don't even idolize GBA.  While it had it's high points, it was also incredibly depressing, and there were no clear heroes.  Every character was flawed.  My desire isn't to see a squad of people going around killing those they disagree with.  My desire is to see ACTUAL justice done.

You know...the victim gets a lifetime of suffering and shame in this case.

The guys that thought it was hilarious get a year of hanging out, followed by getting to go back to what they were doing.  The chances that they ever come to understand how wrong their actions were are pretty slim, given the "punishment."
 
2013-03-17 02:06:49 PM

Theaetetus: Madbassist1: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Madbassist1: Glendale: Popcorn Johnny: How does subby know that justice was served, was he an eyewitness to the events? Fact is innocent people are found guilty and vice versa all the time. Nobody here knows if they're rapists or just kids who got some drunken, consensual pussy.

I don't think it matters because the drunkenness automatically makes it non-consensual by law, or something.

 Males are always responsible for their actions, dumbass. Only females get the free pass.

Tell me of your homeworld.

Thats the way it is, lady, just because you pretend it isn't, doesnt mean that its not true.

Oh and for more details about the case, including snippets of the 'victim's' behavior

http://www.daytondailynews.com/ap/ap/top-news/judge-to-issue-verdict -i n-ohio-school-rape-case/nWtbH/

Said snippets:
The teenage girl testified Saturday that she could not recall what happened the night of the attack but remembered waking up naked in a strange house after drinking at a party. The girl said she recalled drinking, leaving the party holding hands with Mays and throwing up later. When she woke up, she said she discovered her phone, earrings, shoes, and underwear were missing, she testified.

"It was really scary," she said. "I honestly did not know what to think because I could not remember anything."

The girl said she believed she was assaulted when she later read text messages among friends and saw a photo of herself taken that night, along with a video that made fun of her and the alleged attack. She said she suspected she had been drugged because she couldn't explain being as intoxicated as defense witnesses have said she was.

...  The two girls testified they were angry at the accuser because she was drinking heavily at the party and rolling around on the floor. They said they tried unsuccessfully to get her to stop drinking.

Yeah, clearly your quotes around "victim" are warranted, and you're not a pro-rape sociopath.

/oh, wa ...


LOL I see you left out the parts that didnt bolster your case. Like tha part where her friends were angry and disgusted with her drinking and acting like a whore, the parts where they begged her to stop and go home. The part where she was an active participant in texts the next day (until she found out there were pictures). Its convienient to say she doesnt remember. Too bad that wont help the boys.

And you close with a hyperbolic attack on my psychological health. Good for you, hippie. I'm sure one of the girls in this thread will sleep with ya.
 
2013-03-17 02:08:05 PM

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Life sentences?  I never said that.  Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.  Something more appropriate would have been a middle ground though.  Serving until age 18 in a juvenile facility, followed by transfer to an adult facility for a term of 5 years additional, plus lifetime registration as sex offenders.  THAT sentence would seem just.  THAT sentence would have me completely satisfied.  ONE year is a farking joke, and you know it.  They know it too.


Welcome to sentencing guidelines.  Being fingered while intoxicated in Ohio gets a year.  Want a change?  Talk to your local legislature.


How about transmission of child-porn via cell phones?

How about rape of a minor?
 
2013-03-17 02:08:53 PM

SubBass49: I don't even idolize GBA.  While it had it's high points, it was also incredibly depressing, and there were no clear heroes.  Every character was flawed.  My desire isn't to see a squad of people going around killing those they disagree with.  My desire is to see ACTUAL justice done.

You know...the victim gets a lifetime of suffering and shame in this case.

The guys that thought it was hilarious get a year of hanging out, followed by getting to go back to what they were doing.  The chances that they ever come to understand how wrong their actions were are pretty slim, given the "punishment."


Or she could just take the time to realize that she went through trauma and deal with it.
 
2013-03-17 02:09:38 PM

SubBass49: Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.


Rape is never appropriate, whether its happening to teenage girls or prisoners. "When is it morally permissible to rape someone" should be a question that is only ever answered with "never."
 
2013-03-17 02:09:42 PM

Quigs: Lady Indica: aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.

Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the form of civil judgments against those involved. I wonder how much of it will be covered by various home owner insurance policies.

You can see in this very thread, despite the abundance of evidence in this case to rape, how many rape apologists there are. How many who say the victim is somehow responsible. Those are the type of people too stupid to get out of jury duty adjudicating these cases.

You're the only person I've got favorited. You're a generally awesome person, so I feel the need to step up here.

When someone gets behind the wheel of a car with alcohol in their system, and then gets involved in a traffic accident, no matter who was actually at fault, the drunk driver is recorded as being at fault. These are matters of life and death, and the person who chose to drink and do something dangerous is always at fault.

The guys who raped this girl are assholes, and I'd send them to the Wall, but I don't get how people can say that the girl is absolved of all responsibility, when the precedence is the drunk person is always responsible for what happens to themselves and others.


Woah, bro you can't award me the gold medal for winning and then make a post like this.  I ain't trying to share my championship of common sense.
 
2013-03-17 02:09:49 PM
I wonder how the 'it doesn't count as rape if the victim was drunk' argument will change if and when those spiky Rapex condom thingies make it Stateside. If a girl wants to get her booze on without non-consensual mating, she can just pop one in and go out for a party. Any guys decide "ooh, fresh unconscious meat," they get lacerations and a trip to the ER.

Technically, a tampon with a small pouch of indelible dye would be equally effective. Any girl with no plans of farking would have a pretty darn good defense against a rapist at that point.

Screwing is like driving. Don't ever do it drunk or let drunk people do it to you.
 
2013-03-17 02:10:40 PM

SubBass49: InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Life sentences?  I never said that.  Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.  Something more appropriate would have been a middle ground though.  Serving until age 18 in a juvenile facility, followed by transfer to an adult facility for a term of 5 years additional, plus lifetime registration as sex offenders.  THAT sentence would seem just.  THAT sentence would have me completely satisfied.  ONE year is a farking joke, and you know it.  They know it too.


Welcome to sentencing guidelines.  Being fingered while intoxicated in Ohio gets a year.  Want a change?  Talk to your local legislature.

How about transmission of child-porn via cell phones?

How about rape of a minor?


So we're going to choose to go with rape of a minor by a minor now?

And yeah, we can set some precedence on child porn via cell phones.  Then we also need to start prosecuting any teenager found with nude selfies for the same offense.
 
2013-03-17 02:10:49 PM

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: I don't even idolize GBA.  While it had it's high points, it was also incredibly depressing, and there were no clear heroes.  Every character was flawed.  My desire isn't to see a squad of people going around killing those they disagree with.  My desire is to see ACTUAL justice done.

You know...the victim gets a lifetime of suffering and shame in this case.

The guys that thought it was hilarious get a year of hanging out, followed by getting to go back to what they were doing.  The chances that they ever come to understand how wrong their actions were are pretty slim, given the "punishment."

Or she could just take the time to realize that she went through trauma and deal with it.


Pretty sure she will be doing that no matter what.
 
2013-03-17 02:12:15 PM

SpiderQueenDemon: I wonder how the 'it doesn't count as rape if the victim was drunk' argument will change if and when those spiky Rapex condom thingies make it Stateside. If a girl wants to get her booze on without non-consensual mating, she can just pop one in and go out for a party. Any guys decide "ooh, fresh unconscious meat," they get lacerations and a trip to the ER.

Technically, a tampon with a small pouch of indelible dye would be equally effective. Any girl with no plans of farking would have a pretty darn good defense against a rapist at that point.

Screwing is like driving. Don't ever do it drunk or let drunk people do it to you.


THIS.  Too bad they don't already have them here.  THAT would have been great justice.
 
2013-03-17 02:12:48 PM

InitialCommentGuy: Of course.  Anonymous strikes and forces the hand on a case of digital manipulation while intoxicated.

Truly justice vengeance whining until things take their course then taking credit for great social justice has been served by the Internet community.


Well, actually, it was multiple petitions from various groups. No one was going to get charged until then. And Anonymous  did start the trend, even if they weren't the force behind the petitions created. Whether or not they're idiot tweens doesn't negate what they did--in our system, football stars are only charged with crimes when the rest of society shames the DA into doing it, and Anon started that. They damn well deserve credit.

/You really need to look at what the rest of the internet's doing more often, there was substantial evidence that the DA in Steubenville was trying to smooth the whole thing over. That's how our system works; we protect society's 'heroes' from consequences at all times. Especially from a 'moral lapse' like rape.
 
2013-03-17 02:13:09 PM

iaazathot: Pretty sure she will be doing that no matter what


Not necessarily.  The perpetuation of victimhood is a far more safe, fulfilling, and lucrative venture than going the difficult route of recovering from your trauma.  How is she going to go on the lecture circuit and rake in money from groups if she actually learns to cope with her pain?  We need tears and mental anguish to know that rape is wrong.
 
2013-03-17 02:14:27 PM

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Life sentences?  I never said that.  Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.  Something more appropriate would have been a middle ground though.  Serving until age 18 in a juvenile facility, followed by transfer to an adult facility for a term of 5 years additional, plus lifetime registration as sex offenders.  THAT sentence would seem just.  THAT sentence would have me completely satisfied.  ONE year is a farking joke, and you know it.  They know it too.


Welcome to sentencing guidelines.  Being fingered while intoxicated in Ohio gets a year.  Want a change?  Talk to your local legislature.

How about transmission of child-porn via cell phones?

How about rape of a minor?

1. So we're going to choose to go with rape of a minor by a minor now?

2. And yeah, we can set some precedence on child porn via cell phones.  Then we also need to start prosecuting any teenager found with nude selfies for the same offense.


1. Yes.

2. These weren't selfies.  These were pics of her passed out unconscious while two guys raped her and jizzed on her.  Quite different.  If you dont' see that, then I'm guessing you don't see much.
 
2013-03-17 02:14:32 PM

PsiChick: Well, actually, it was multiple petitions from various groups. No one was going to get charged until then. And Anonymous  did start the trend, even if they weren't the force behind the petitions created. Whether or not they're idiot tweens doesn't negate what they did--in our system, football stars are only charged with crimes when the rest of society shames the DA into doing it, and Anon started that. They damn well deserve credit.


Yep.  Guy Fawkes masks and rhythmic chanting did a lot for this case.
 
2013-03-17 02:15:06 PM

InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Pretty sure she will be doing that no matter what

Not necessarily.  The perpetuation of victimhood is a far more safe, fulfilling, and lucrative venture than going the difficult route of recovering from your trauma.  How is she going to go on the lecture circuit and rake in money from groups if she actually learns to cope with her pain?  We need tears and mental anguish to know that rape is wrong.


You're an idiot.
 
2013-03-17 02:15:40 PM

Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.


That $#@!& POS Richmond also was photographed lifting up the victim's top and exposing her breasts to others.  And some of the others involved (who so far have gotten away with their crimes) also urinated on her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256386/Steubenville-rape-ca se -Video-shows-group-high-school-students-laughing-girls-ordeal.html

What those assholes did to her WAS brutal, despite what some here think. It's too bad that they will probably only do a year in juvie. The victim is going to have to deal with the fallout from this for the rest of her life.
 
2013-03-17 02:15:50 PM

Quigs: Lady Indica: aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.

Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the form of civil judgments against those involved. I wonder how much of it will be covered by various home owner insurance policies.

You can see in this very thread, despite the abundance of evidence in this case to rape, how many rape apologists there are. How many who say the victim is somehow responsible. Those are the type of people too stupid to get out of jury duty adjudicating these cases.

You're the only person I've got favorited. You're a generally awesome person, so I feel the need to step up here.

When someone gets behind the wheel of a car with alcohol in their system, and then gets involved in a traffic accident, no matter who was actually at fault, the drunk driver is recorded as being at fault. These are matters of life and death, and the person who chose to drink and do something dangerous is always at fault.

The guys who raped this girl are assholes, and I'd send them to the Wall, but I don't get how people can say that the girl is absolved of all responsibility, when the precedence is the drunk person is always responsible for what happens to themselves and others.


Oof. I've not plonked Trixie, even though I think she's pretty horrible with the shiat she's saying, because I think she's at least being honest with her opinion/perspective and I understand the seed of it. Same here (though you are not being horrible) with yours. This thread actually has me worked up, but this deserves a response.

This is going to be very long. Feel free to pass on by others not interested.

It's a very normal, common, human reaction for us to look at dangerous and bad situations that have happened to others, and examine WHY it happened and HOW we can make sure it doesn't happen to us. This is wiring. Unfortunately because we also tend to retroactively think and explain such wiring, we come to shiatty conclusions. We look at a woman raped in an alley. She was dressed modest as a nun, walking down the street in broad daylight. No one (rational and sane) is gonna argue for the rapist. But, we will actively look for reasons it happened. Because if it's just lightning bolt out of the blue...it could happen to YOU, or your daughter/mother/sister/whatever. So we latch on to things that we believe we can control. Oh, she was in a bad neighborhood. One shouldn't walk in bad neighborhoods alone. This can easily start becoming, 'She shouldn't have walked in a bad neighborhood alone. One should know better' which places accountability on the victim. That's the bad cognitive leap, do you see what I'm saying?

Additionally this overactive radar doesn't work well. We *know* this (scientifically). But it's bad wiring that serves a ghastly purpose.

You're walking down the street. You see a group of young men coming towards you. They look like mormon missionaries. You're probably not too worried. (I wouldn't be either). Same thing, but they look like a group of street hoodlums. You're worried. Probably scared. You're probably thinking of escapes. Looking around for other people.

If your assumption about those young men is WRONG (and it usually will be in life), then taking certain actions (such as crossing the street, entering a shop, dialing 9-1 on your phone with the finger lightly on that last '1'...) have no adverse consequence. In fact, you may wrongly attribute these actions as having helped you in a situation where you were in no actual danger.

Ignoring these false warnings though, can have dire consequences. We're even taught as children to PAY ATTENTION to these warnings. 'Trust your gut instinct' is something everyone heard as a kid, in one form or another.

And then we overly trust these things to keep us safe. And in order to maintain that belief (not consciously, no one is twisting a mustache going mwhahaha, this is all unconsciously done) we examine victims in order to figure out things they didn't do that we WOULD or COULD do. This is the evolution of victim blame.

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE is arguing that it's a good idea to get publicly intoxicated. It's just not. But it is fun. And it is something most people do at one point in their lives. We have to take accountability for our own actions, and when we're teenagers and young adults we're experimenting with a lot of new situations. And we make a lot of bad decisions.

Yet, it's interesting isn't it that when we see a story about a drunk driver killing a bunch of people...that we don't blame the people they victimize in the same manner. We don't say 'well they should have known better than to be on the road at that hour, lol'. We don't hear a mother claiming that if her daughter were crippled in a wreck, that she'd be lecturing her on her personal responsibility.

That's where moralistic arrogance creeps in. Dressing 'slutty'. Drinking! Cavorting with males at parties! Going to a man's hotel room alone, what WAS she thinking?! So not only are we obsessively radaring WHY this won't happen to us, but ways in which they were at fault.

I'm a good person, and my children are good people whom I've taught these values to, therefore this can't and won't happen to US.

Again, an issue I'm not dispassionate about. This is an issue that's emotionally charged for most people.

The bottom line ultimately is this; why does it matter WHY she became unconscious. If she had a medical condition which was not previously known, that caused her to collapse on a couch...and then all this shiat happened doesn't make her any more, or any less a victim. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference.
 
2013-03-17 02:16:02 PM

InitialCommentGuy: iaazathot: Pretty sure she will be doing that no matter what

Not necessarily.  The perpetuation of victimhood is a far more safe, fulfilling, and lucrative venture than going the difficult route of recovering from your trauma.  How is she going to go on the lecture circuit and rake in money from groups if she actually learns to cope with her pain?  We need tears and mental anguish to know that rape is wrong.


Have you ever known a girl that was a victim of rape?  I have.  I knew several in high school, and I know a few now as adults.  It's pretty hard to form a trusting relationship after something like that, and they suffer flashbacks and mood swings.  But I forgot, you're totally the expert.
 
2013-03-17 02:17:56 PM
SubBass49:

1. Yes.

Oooh, this will be a fun can of worms.  Rather than actually treating it as a crime of equals we can tack additional punishment because of the shared status.  The precedent would set so many lawyer's billable hour sense a'tingle that we may have to swab out the Bar Association due to various bodily fluids.

2. These weren't selfies.  These were pics of her passed out unconscious while two guys raped her and jizzed on her.  Quite different.  If you dont' see that, then I'm guessing you don't see much.

Doesn't matter.  Our laws on child pornography are pretty clear cut.  Again, if you wish to change them, speak to your legislator... Criminalizing one form while ignoring another is going to cause plenty of headaches.  But again, you don't seem to be very able to do the whole logic thing.
 
2013-03-17 02:18:41 PM

Trixie212: Tak the Hideous New Girl: I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

See Trixie, this is why people think you are a horrible person (for the record I think you are a horrible person too).

You have a crying, traumatized girl (your daughter!) who's worried that she got a disease or is pregnant, is terrified that there pictures of her shame are all over Twitter or Facebook (something I did not have to worry about back in the dinosaur age, thank goodness), and your reaction is to tell your daughter, "Too bad, so sad, you should have made better choices."

I already understood what people thought. You're entitled to feel the way you do. I've been on Fark for a number of years and have taken exception to a lot of things people have said but I've never told anyone they were a horrible person.


I am being unfair to you. There are a whole lot of horrible people on this thread. You're being singled out because you'd heap shame on your own daughter.

Let's call out some other horrible people:

Popcorn Johnny - biatch probably wanted it.
hasy ambush - biatchez be lyin'
captainmaxthedestroyer - We can't help it! Men are slaves to their genitalia! If my dick wants it, biatchez better watch out!
Madbassist1 - Hey biatchez, take some responsibility when some guy(s) rapes your drunk, passed out ass and posts it all over the internet!
Initial Comment Guy - Rape, schmape, Anonymous convicted these guys and biatch probably wanted her unconscious fingerbang posted all over the internet anyway. biatchez are like that, amiright?
skwerl - I don't know nothin' but biatch probably ruined those two nice boys life over nothing.
 
2013-03-17 02:19:08 PM

Lady Indica: Quigs: Lady Indica: aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.

Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the form of civil judgments against those involved. I wonder how much of it will be covered by various home owner insurance policies.

You can see in this very thread, despite the abundance of evidence in this case to rape, how many rape apologists there are. How many who say the victim is somehow responsible. Those are the type of people too stupid to get out of jury duty adjudicating these cases.

You're the only person I've got favorited. You're a generally awesome person, so I feel the need to step up here.

When someone gets behind the wheel of a car with alcohol in their system, and then gets involved in a traffic accident, no matter who was actually at fault, the drunk driver is recorded as being at fault. These are matters of life and death, and the person who chose to drink and do something dangerous is always at fault.

The guys who raped this girl are assholes, and I'd send them to the Wall, but I don't get how people can say that the girl is absolved of all responsibility, when the precedence is the drunk person is always responsible for what happens to themselves and others.

Oof. I've not plonked Trixie, even though I think she's pretty horrible with the shiat she's saying, because I think she's at least being honest with her opinion/perspective and I understand the seed of it. Same here (though you are not being horrible) with yours. This thread actually h ...


Well said...
 
2013-03-17 02:19:52 PM
SubBass49:

Have you ever known a girl that was a victim of rape?  I have.  I knew several in high school, and I know a few now as adults.  It's pretty hard to form a trusting relationship after something like that, and they suffer flashbacks and mood swings.  But I forgot, you're totally the expert.

Hard to flashback to a blackout.  And what you're describing is unhandled psychological trauma... You know, what I was discussing.  Rape isn't unique in its expression of PTSD in that way, just a different configuration of challenges.
 
2013-03-17 02:19:57 PM
Perhaps folks would be less whimsical about all of this is she has died and they had kept going all schoolboy on her.

If your classmate is impaired, you protect them.

Period.
 
2013-03-17 02:19:59 PM

SubBass49: InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Life sentences?  I never said that.  Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.  Something more appropriate would have been a middle ground though.  Serving until age 18 in a juvenile facility, followed by transfer to an adult facility for a term of 5 years additional, plus lifetime registration as sex offenders.  THAT sentence would seem just.  THAT sentence would have me completely satisfied.  ONE year is a farking joke, and you know it.  They know it too.


Welcome to sentencing guidelines.  Being fingered while intoxicated in Ohio gets a year.  Want a change?  Talk to your local legislature.

How about transmission of child-porn via cell phones?



One of the boys got an additional year added onto his sentence for that.
 
2013-03-17 02:20:00 PM
You know, sometimes you have to convince a girl that she really wants to do it. She'll play like she doesn't, and after a few hours of drinking and 4play, she finally loosens up and enjoys herself. Then the next day after the alcohol has worn off, all of her sick and twisted repressive personality traits return in full force, and she starts screaming RAEP to make herself feel less guilty for having FINALLY stopped being a gold digging prick tease and put out for a cool, good looking guy. Given this common scenario, I have to wonder how many guys get unfairly blamed for some crazy chick's personal Daddy issues.

/just sayin, since I hate self-righteous idiots wielding pitchforks
 
2013-03-17 02:20:08 PM

iaazathot: Bontesla: BarkingUnicorn: Bontesla: Rape is NEVER partially the victim's fault.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder why its author is being so helpful to rapists.  Women who think they can do whatever they want guilt-free are easy pickings.

Why do you think blaming rape victims is helpful to women or rape victims?

The only risk factor for being raped is being in the presence of a rapist. Most of the time - the victim isn't aware they're in the presence of a rapist until after the rape.

Wearing frumpy clothes doesn't prevent rape. Traveling in groups doesn't prevent rape. Drinking doesn't prevent rape.

Suggesting that if only this girl remained sober, she wouldn't have been raped is absurd and speculative.

Teaching people that you can avoid rape if you follow these things is incredibly cruel to the victims that have followed all of the rules and still ended up being raped.

I do understand what you are saying, right up until that last sentence.  Statistically speaking, you are less likely to be raped or sexually assaulted if drugs and/or alcohol are not involved.  Probabilities decrease, but never fall to zero.

As a self-defense instructor, it would be patently irresponsible for me to not discuss these facts with the people who come to me for advice and help.  The difference is leaving the judgement factor out of it.  I don't judge a victim, after the fact, for having been intoxicated.  It serves no purpose to do so, and would be cruel and uncaring.

Your statements about what does and doesn't prevent rape is a binary one, and doesn't reflect statistical reality.  More rapes happen in isolation than not. More rapes happen when drugs and alcohol are present (this can vary by culture and extreme circumstance (war for example) I am speaking about American culture right now).  The dressing thing is really complex and difficult to parse, so I will side with you on that.

Pointing out statistical facts to people increases their ability to make  choices f ...


As I've said - there's a difference between engaging in cautionary behavior and assuming responsibility for not engaging in cautionary behavior.

Sure, drinking could lower risk of rape depending on the type of rapist you're unwittingly in the presence of. But unless you know what type of rapist you're in the presence of - you really have no idea which behaviors you're engaging in that increase your type of risk. What if his trigger is you reminding him of his mother? What if he stalks his prey first? No. Drinking has very little influence on whether or not you're going to be raped.

That's my point. Pretending that there's this formula that exists in which if you follow this exactly - you can prevent your own rape is cruel and unfair to victims who do follow the guidelines but still can't prevent their own rape.

There's nothing wrong with taking precautions. In fact - everyone should be taught what appropriate precautions are and how to utilize them. But let's not pretend that these precautions are guarantees and let's not insult victims by suggesting that they could have prevented their own rapes if only...

It's also ridiculous to assume these precautions are innate. They're taught. We teach people how to better defend themselves. Not having that knowledge doesn't mean the victims are responsible for what happens to them when they're unconscious.
 
2013-03-17 02:20:17 PM

Lorelle: Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.

That $#@!& POS Richmond also was photographed lifting up the victim's top and exposing her breasts to others.  And some of the others involved (who so far have gotten away with their crimes) also urinated on her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256386/Steubenville-rape-ca se -Video-shows-group-high-school-students-laughing-girls-ordeal.html

What those assholes did to her WAS brutal, despite what some here think. It's too bad that they will probably only do a year in juvie. The victim is going to have to deal with the fallout from this for the rest of her life.


Not that it matters considering what WAS done to her but I understood the news to say that no one urinated on her.
 
2013-03-17 02:20:31 PM

InitialCommentGuy: PsiChick: Well, actually, it was multiple petitions from various groups. No one was going to get charged until then. And Anonymous  did start the trend, even if they weren't the force behind the petitions created. Whether or not they're idiot tweens doesn't negate what they did--in our system, football stars are only charged with crimes when the rest of society shames the DA into doing it, and Anon started that. They damn well deserve credit.

Yep.  Guy Fawkes masks and rhythmic chanting did a lot for this case.


Going on the internet and raising a stink so various groups knew to form petitions did, actually...
 
2013-03-17 02:20:37 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: Quigs: Lady Indica: aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.

Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the form of civil judgments against those involved. I wonder how much of it will be covered by various home owner insurance policies.

You can see in this very thread, despite the abundance of evidence in this case to rape, how many rape apologists there are. How many who say the victim is somehow responsible. Those are the type of people too stupid to get out of jury duty adjudicating these cases.

You're the only person I've got favorited. You're a generally awesome person, so I feel the need to step up here.

When someone gets behind the wheel of a car with alcohol in their system, and then gets involved in a traffic accident, no matter who was actually at fault, the drunk driver is recorded as being at fault. These are matters of life and death, and the person who chose to drink and do something dangerous is always at fault.

The guys who raped this girl are assholes, and I'd send them to the Wall, but I don't get how people can say that the girl is absolved of all responsibility, when the precedence is the drunk person is always responsible for what happens to themselves and others.

Woah, bro you can't award me the gold medal for winning and then make a post like this.  I ain't trying to share my championship of common sense.


Hey, my personal beliefs are that each case should be taken on it's own merits regardless of booze in the system. I'm just saying the law/the society who agrees with the law are all saying the person who drinks is at fault, even if there's a death... except if it's rape, because we said so.
 
2013-03-17 02:21:52 PM

SubBass49: InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Get really drunk = Somehow you deserve to be raped

Rape someone = Somehow you deserve to spend a year at summer camp

This is not justice.

I get that logic is difficult if not impossible for you as you consider God Bless America a movie to be idolized.  Deserving to be raped has nothing to do with it.  The expectation of bad things happening when you decide to let Mr. Daniels take the wheel of your consciousness is different from Deserving To Be Raped.

I don't even idolize GBA.  While it had it's high points, it was also incredibly depressing, and there were no clear heroes.  Every character was flawed.  My desire isn't to see a squad of people going around killing those they disagree with.  My desire is to see ACTUAL justice done.

You know...the victim gets a lifetime of suffering and shame in this case.

The guys that thought it was hilarious get a year of hanging out, followed by getting to go back to what they were doing.  The chances that they ever come to understand how wrong their actions were are pretty slim, given the "punishment."


They've named themselves the Rape Squad.

What are the odds that this is the only rape victim?
 
2013-03-17 02:22:07 PM
Their defense was "she didn't say no".  Didn't anyone explain to these assholes that when a girl is that drunk, that she can't give consent?  Even if she had drunkenly said, "yes", she still can not give consent.  Also, she was 16, so probably can't give consent even if sober (not sure of that state's laws on that).

This simple thing should be part of sex education.  IF SHE IS DRUNK SHE CAN NOT GIVE CONSENT.  How farking hard is this to understand?

I bet that town is going to make that poor girl's life miserable now.  Assholes.
 
2013-03-17 02:23:06 PM

tirob: SubBass49: InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49: Life sentences?  I never said that.  Raped as punishment?  Sure, would be more appropriate punishment than a year in a lockdown version of summer camp.  Something more appropriate would have been a middle ground though.  Serving until age 18 in a juvenile facility, followed by transfer to an adult facility for a term of 5 years additional, plus lifetime registration as sex offenders.  THAT sentence would seem just.  THAT sentence would have me completely satisfied.  ONE year is a farking joke, and you know it.  They know it too.


Welcome to sentencing guidelines.  Being fingered while intoxicated in Ohio gets a year.  Want a change?  Talk to your local legislature.

How about transmission of child-porn via cell phones?


One of the boys got an additional year added onto his sentence for that.


As far as I understood initial reports, he wasn't the only one "enjoying" the pics though.  Sure, he's the only one being punished.
 
2013-03-17 02:23:10 PM

Trixie212: Lorelle: Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.

That $#@!& POS Richmond also was photographed lifting up the victim's top and exposing her breasts to others.  And some of the others involved (who so far have gotten away with their crimes) also urinated on her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256386/Steubenville-rape-ca se -Video-shows-group-high-school-students-laughing-girls-ordeal.html

What those assholes did to her WAS brutal, despite what some here think. It's too bad that they will probably only do a year in juvie. The victim is going to have to deal with the fallout from this for the rest of her life.

Not that it matters considering what WAS done to her but I understood the news to say that no one urinated on her.


Oh, no one peed on her? Well damn, i change my whole take on this. I guess she should just get over it.
 
2013-03-17 02:23:51 PM

Bontesla: They've named themselves the Rape Squad.

What are the odds that this is the only rape victim?


Rape Squad sounds a little first timey.

Usually you want something with a bit more pomp and circumstance when forming a group centered around sex crimes.  Like The Catholic Church.

Do Rape Squad members get special hats?
 
2013-03-17 02:24:44 PM

Tak the Hideous New Girl: Trixie212: Tak the Hideous New Girl: I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

See Trixie, this is why people think you are a horrible person (for the record I think you are a horrible person too).

You have a crying, traumatized girl (your daughter!) who's worried that she got a disease or is pregnant, is terrified that there pictures of her shame are all over Twitter or Facebook (something I did not have to worry about back in the dinosaur age, thank goodness), and your reaction is to tell your daughter, "Too bad, so sad, you should have made better choices."

I already understood what people thought. You're entitled to feel the way you do. I've been on Fark for a number of years and have taken exception to a lot of things people have said but I've never told anyone they were a horrible person.

I am being unfair to you. There are a whole lot of horrible people on this thread. You're being singled out because you'd heap shame on your own daughter.

Let's call out some other horrible people:

Popcorn Johnny - biatch probably wanted it.
hasy ambush - biatchez be lyin'
captainmaxthedestroyer - We can't help it! Men are slaves to their genitalia! If my dick wants it, biatchez better watch out!
Madbassist1 - Hey biatchez, take some responsibility when some guy(s) rapes your drunk, passed out ass and posts it all over the internet!
Initial Comment Guy - Rape, schmape, Anonymous convicted these guys and biatch probably wanted her unconscious fingerbang posted all over the internet anyway. biatchez are like that, amiright?
skwerl - I don't know nothin' but biat ...


This list makes me want to hit on you until I can propose consensual sex, which you will then reject.
 
2013-03-17 02:25:00 PM

Quigs: I'm just saying the law/the society who agrees with the law are all saying the person who drinks is at fault, even if there's a death... except if it's rape, because we said so.


If you drink and pass out you're guilty of being drunk in public (if you're in public).  If someone comes along and decides that it would be hilarious to put their fingers inside you, that's rape, even if they're drunk too.

Not sure what the confusion here is.
 
2013-03-17 02:25:27 PM
SubBass49:
As far as I understood initial reports, he wasn't the only one "enjoying" the pics though.  Sure, he's the only one being punished.

Because the punishment was for distribution.  If we start going into possession by teenagers we open up that can of worms we were discussing, especially considering the media allows for unsolicited procurement.

Logic, meet SubBass49.
 
2013-03-17 02:25:43 PM

Tak the Hideous New Girl: Trixie212: Tak the Hideous New Girl: I have sons and I gave daughters and I've tried to imagine how I would feel if it was any of my kids who were involved in this. My opinion is not going to be popular but I really don't care. Had that been my daughter, I would have held her just as responsible for what happened to her as I would have the guys. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have understood her being hurt and upset and I know she would have had to deal with the consequences for a long time.

See Trixie, this is why people think you are a horrible person (for the record I think you are a horrible person too).

You have a crying, traumatized girl (your daughter!) who's worried that she got a disease or is pregnant, is terrified that there pictures of her shame are all over Twitter or Facebook (something I did not have to worry about back in the dinosaur age, thank goodness), and your reaction is to tell your daughter, "Too bad, so sad, you should have made better choices."

I already understood what people thought. You're entitled to feel the way you do. I've been on Fark for a number of years and have taken exception to a lot of things people have said but I've never told anyone they were a horrible person.

I am being unfair to you. There are a whole lot of horrible people on this thread. You're being singled out because you'd heap shame on your own daughter.

Let's call out some other horrible people:

Popcorn Johnny - biatch probably wanted it.
hasy ambush - biatchez be lyin'
captainmaxthedestroyer - We can't help it! Men are slaves to their genitalia! If my dick wants it, biatchez better watch out!
Madbassist1 - Hey biatchez, take some responsibility when some guy(s) rapes your drunk, passed out ass and posts it all over the internet!
Initial Comment Guy - Rape, schmape, Anonymous convicted these guys and biatch probably wanted her unconscious fingerbang posted all over the internet anyway. biatchez are like that, amiright?
skwerl - I don't know nothin' but biatch probably ruined those two nice boys life over nothing.


I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt because I know that sometimes it's difficult to accurately portray the emotions behind the words. And because I know that everyone has a backstory that shapes their opinions. I disagree with a lot people but I don't believe any of you are horrible.
 
2013-03-17 02:26:36 PM

Lorelle: Bontesla: oukewldave: Rape is never OK, but do we know this was actually rape?  They say she was drunk, but where the guys drunk too?  If they were, I don't understand how they can be considered rapists, besides the fact they are male and that's how our society is.  Logically, if everyone was equally drunk, they could say she raped both of them...

Apparently everyone knew it was rape. Kids attending the various parties tweeted about how Rape Me by Nirvana was the song of the night.

At one point - the victim was so disoriented that she was carried in and out of the various parties. Reports were that the boys were showing her off - lifting up her skirt and touching her (some of this photographed) while she was unconscious.

That $#@!& POS Richmond also was photographed lifting up the victim's top and exposing her breasts to others.  And some of the others involved (who so far have gotten away with their crimes) also urinated on her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256386/Steubenville-rape-ca se -Video-shows-group-high-school-students-laughing-girls-ordeal.html

What those assholes did to her WAS brutal, despite what some here think. It's too bad that they will probably only do a year in juvie. The victim is going to have to deal with the fallout from this for the rest of her life.


And then to hear about the details from "friends", twitter, Instagram, and Facebook? That's such an exposed and horrific way to learn about it.

Then she was threatened by many, many bullies for coming forward and asking questions.

It's appalling.
 
2013-03-17 02:26:40 PM

InitialCommentGuy: SubBass49:
As far as I understood initial reports, he wasn't the only one "enjoying" the pics though.  Sure, he's the only one being punished.

Because the punishment was for distribution.  If we start going into possession by teenagers we open up that can of worms we were discussing, especially considering the media allows for unsolicited procurement.

Logic, meet SubBass49.


agileproductdesign.com

But you sure do use that word a lot. don't you?
 
2013-03-17 02:28:09 PM

Lady Indica: Quigs: Lady Indica: aedude01: ha-ha-guy: Lady Indica: They could have been charged with kidnapping (they moved the victim), criminal conspiracy, etc.

You can't convict on charges the prosecutors didn't file...

If the prosecutor didn't file these charges, in theory couldn't he file them now?  It wouldn't be double jeopardy since kidnapping is a completely different crime.

Yup, in theory. But it won't happen. You might see a criminal conspiracy case (based on the name 'rape crew' and the attempted intimidation and cover up that followed), but I doubt it. Any additional justice will probably come in the