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(Psych Central)   Parents: "Our child can't focus." Doctors: "We'll artificially alter their brain chemistry, even though their brain isn't even fully developed yet." Parents: "BRILLIANT." Neurologists: "About that"   (psychcentral.com) divider line 41
    More: Fail, neurochemistry, physicians, American Academy of Neurology, Yale  
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6861 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Mar 2013 at 10:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-17 11:52:51 AM
4 votes:
Farking report is 20 farking years too farking late.  We spent well into 2 farking decades of pushing these zombifying drugs into kids because their douchebag parents didn't want to deal with them and be actual farking parents.

I loathed the way Ritalin made me feel, and how I'm still dealing with issues that didn't start until after I was taking it at the maximum farking dose and it still wasn't 'producing satisfactory results'.

No wonder we have a generation of functionally/developmentally retarded adults, we drugged away their goddamn childhood and postponed it to early adulthood, and now they lack skillsets we should have as adults, because they were supposed to develop in childhood.  But no, we chose to doom them to failure, and jeopardize ourselves by creating the first steps towards Idiocracy,all for the peace of mind on a generation or two of parents who were willingly duped by doctors paid to shill out these bullshiat drugs that farked up these kids' developing brains.
2013-03-17 11:14:27 AM
4 votes:
"Hi, I'm a young kid who sits in a chair in a classroom all day, and then when I get home, I sit in front of the television or the computer as lots of flashy images fly by.  I have trouble paying attention."

That's not a disorder.  That's the obvious outcome of a lifestyle that - both at school and at home - is unnatural and unhealthy.

Kids need lots of recess and time running around discovering things like what a rolly-polly tastes like.
2013-03-17 08:45:41 AM
4 votes:
Why, again, are we letting family doctors, nurse practitioners and pediatricians without ANY formal psychiatric training prescribe ADHD and neuroaffective medications, again? Especially to children who do not have any other functional life issues other than having too much energy?

Too much energy does not equal ADHD.

/went through three child psychiatrists and an inpatient program before I got that diagnosis.
//Vyvance helps. Went from Ds to a 3.9 GPA.
2013-03-17 02:11:11 PM
3 votes:

studebaker hoch: For people that actually have ADHD, it's a crippling condition.  If you don't have it, you can't know.

If you're lucky, the meds help you.


I dont doubt that, but what we that grew up free range before the era of rampant child brain medication are still stuck not understanding is how you can go from ADHD being a 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10,000 in 1980, but a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 5 by 2000.

Are you all just that much damaged, or perhaps just maybe they over-prescribed ?

It makes zero sense to people who didn't grow up on brain meds to consider that up to maybe what, 20%, 30% of the young adults now are on them, or were on them as kids.
2013-03-17 11:03:07 AM
3 votes:
Why are we changing people to fit society, shouldn't we build things around how people actually are???
2013-03-17 08:59:34 PM
2 votes:
legion_of_doo

Drugs are not a replacement for parenting.

I agree.

Good parents will recognize that l'il Timmah isn't firing on all eight, and use the medical system to find out why.  If an ADHD diagnosis comes back and a drug is indicated, good parents will get the kid his medicine, then monitor his performance both at school and at life in general.  Good parents use peer review of their parenting choices to make sure that they are using the best practices to raise a successful child.  They can proactively assist by following along with his studies, and shadowing his next school.  At the same time, they avoid "helicoper parent" syndrome by knowing when to step back and let the kid flap his wings and jump.  Learning involves getting things wrong, and wise parents let it happen, to be sure the lessons of these trials are explained so the kid can learn and then choose differently the next time the same situation is encountered.  These parents make raising their children a full-time job, using all available resources.

Bad parents will punish the kid for poor test scores and a fear of going outside (because the kid is totally unprepared / ill-equipped to deal with aggressive peers).  Bad parent's will think "drugs are bad, m'kay" and instead simply order the kid to do his homework and to study harder, with predictable results.  Bad parents will continue to deny there is anything wrong with them, their parenting style, their life outlook, or their child.  More bad grades, more punishment, until eventually the kid either drops out of school, or if he does finish, splits home at 18.  Once free of the the toxic family environment, the kid is then on his own, for better or worse, to raise and teach himself, to sink or swim in the real world.
2013-03-17 05:24:40 PM
2 votes:
I'll just throw this out...

Up until I was 3 I was considered "hyperactive," which was the name for it back then. I was extremely bright and well ahead of what was normal for my age, but was more or less uncontrollable.

Then *boom* I stopped acting out, found focus, and actually became a rather creepy introvert.

What changed was that I learned how to read, and my family had a huge library. To a little kid for whom that opens up, yowza. THERE IS AN ENTIRE UNIVERSE IN THERE! I read it all and wanted more.

Of course, my adult alcoholism burned out whatever brilliance I might have ever had, but I can't help but think that having a library readily available and turning off the jump-cut flashing-lights immediate-gratification television might make a difference for kids that might fit my pattern. I watch television and think "Well, no WONDER kids are ADD."
2013-03-17 04:26:35 PM
2 votes:
Yes! It's about time someone stands up to Big pharma and STOP prescribing drugs that harm brain development for people under the age of 18.

There is an astounding amount of literature that shows amphetamines (Adderall) and other dopaminergic drugs actually <i>cause</i> ADHD pathology in young adults. Worse, there is plenty of literature that shows children given these drugs permanently develop ADHD pathology - whether they exhibited it before administration or not.

If your kid needs to get a 1600 on the SATs with Adderall so badly you feel fine setting them up a life long addiction to the drug, perhaps at the very least you should be forced to explain these side effects and let them determine whether the drug is worth taking. Be sure to tell them it gets them high. You know, for the grades!
2013-03-17 02:55:12 PM
2 votes:
You ever see those old-timey ads for heroin? Ones that recommend it for teething babies and stomach aces? The ones that make you say " Jesus Christ, can you believe they used to give HEROIN to children!! What the hell was wrong with them?" i have a feeling people will be saying the same thing about our use of prescription drugs 100 years from. now. "Jesus Christ, can you believe doctors were giving millions of children AMPHETAMINES(adderall)!! What the hell was wrong with them?"
2013-03-17 01:40:58 PM
2 votes:
We are so primitive when it comes to mental diagnosis and treatment.  We might as well be a big group of monkeys, smashing our heads with sticks.  Why?

We were cutting out pieces of people's brains and calling it a miracle of science only 60 years ago.

But 60 years ago is far far away, right?  Not really.  Lobotomies were eventually replaced with drugs, but we haven't really learned much since then.  There hasn't been a medical "breakthrough" in mental health since we started using drugs.  Sure, we improved on the drugs, but most of that has been done by trial and error, not by completely understanding why they work.  We still rely people describing the condition to indicate how they should be treated, instead of knowing how the chemicals in their brain are misfiring.  It introduces a massive bias problem with how people are treated.
2013-03-17 01:37:33 PM
2 votes:

sweatybronson: "Hi, I'm a young kid who sits in a chair in a classroom all day, and then when I get home, I sit in front of the television or the computer as lots of flashy images fly by.  I have trouble paying attention."

That's not a disorder.  That's the obvious outcome of a lifestyle that - both at school and at home - is unnatural and unhealthy.

Kids need lots of recess and time running around discovering things like what a rolly-polly tastes like.


www.thislosangeles.com
2013-03-17 11:17:49 AM
2 votes:
You guys read the article, right?  It's not about the dangers of prescribing meds to kids with ADHD, ADD, etc. It's about prescribing those and other drugs to students without those disorders as "study drugs".

/please adjust your rants accordingly
2013-03-17 09:48:12 AM
2 votes:
My brother's elementary school held my brother's education for ransom. Either my mother gave him medication (the teacher diagnosed him with ADD). My mother never had any issues with my brother and felt his behavior was quite normal. But she was a single parent, working as an aid at the nursing home for 2.25 an hour, taking care of her disabled father, raising three kids, and going to college. She had very little options.

So she went to the doctor and medicated him during the school year. She skipped it during summer. When he reached middle school - she skipped it entirely and no one was the wiser.

My brother didn't have ADD and as an adult he doesn't have ADHD. My brother was just defiant and wanted an explanation for things before he participated. He failed kindergarten for refusing to sit on the rug during story time m
2013-03-17 09:16:14 AM
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: Why, again, are we letting family doctors, nurse practitioners and pediatricians without ANY formal psychiatric training prescribe ADHD and neuroaffective medications, again? Especially to children who do not have any other functional life issues other than having too much energy?

Too much energy does not equal ADHD.

/went through three child psychiatrists and an inpatient program before I got that diagnosis.
//Vyvance helps. Went from Ds to a 3.9 GPA.


Three main reasons:

1) Profit for all these new drugs by the drug companies

2) Asswit parents that won't lead their kids without medical help

3) Schools who have the right to either demand the kid be medicated or kicked out


Looking forward to the eventual crippling civil suits against the drug companies by the grown up kids who had ADHD medicine given them as kids, who now are grown up and can't function without it.
2013-03-18 07:14:20 AM
1 votes:
Here I am again, 'defending' accepted science.
ADHD is real. It's debilitating, and the medicine I take combats it fully enough for me to enjoy my life. Please stop contributing to the mass hysteria about a stimulant. Ritalin, Concerta, Aderahl, etc, are stimulants that affect the same part of your brain as caffeine  they don't turn you into a zombie, they don't create an alternate personality, it just allows me to concentrate when necessary, and to be a lot more pro-active in my day-to-day life than I ever am when I'm without medicinal assistance.

ADD is theoretically caused by the under-utilization of a certain area of the brain, and that line of medicines  help get it into line.

In short, ADHD and the medicines prescribed to treat it are not quackery.
2013-03-18 03:28:30 AM
1 votes:

studebaker hoch: Once free of the the toxic family environment, the kid is then on his own, for better or worse, to raise and teach himself, to sink or swim in the real world.


The neurotic and sterile approach to parenting you mentioned first is the kind of toxic family environment that breeds mentally ill people who can't cope with the real world. If you want your kids to be ready to deal with real people, be real with them. Don't treat them like some kind of lab experiment.
2013-03-17 10:00:52 PM
1 votes:

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: bifford: Disagree?  You are a failure as a human being and a parent.  Sucks to be you.

I kinda wish my parents had tried medication sooner.  As an adult, I'm trying every ADHD drug on the market and my parents insist they're all poison and that I'm killing myself.  My problem is not that they're poison, it's that nothing works.

Serious question: have you tried cannabis? Caffeine also can help.


That could help, but it could be he is in the wrong family of drugs.

A mood stabilzer might be enough for him/her to get a firm grip and keep it under control. invega did wonders during a very stressful divorce for me. after a few months, didnt need it anymore.
2013-03-17 07:42:34 PM
1 votes:
Drugs are not a replacement for parenting.
2013-03-17 04:54:44 PM
1 votes:

Bontesla: My brother's elementary school held my brother's education for ransom. Either my mother gave him medication (the teacher diagnosed him with ADD). My mother never had any issues with my brother and felt his behavior was quite normal. But she was a single parent, working as an aid at the nursing home for 2.25 an hour, taking care of her disabled father, raising three kids, and going to college. She had very little options.


No kidding, most schools would have given her an 'or else' option!
2013-03-17 04:26:20 PM
1 votes:

studebaker hoch: For people that actually have ADHD, it's a crippling condition.  If you don't have it, you can't know.

If you're lucky, the meds help you.


This.
I'm 40 yrs old and didn't realize I had ADHD until I changed careers from broadcasting to nursing. It makes complete sense now. Why I couldn't do a lot of homework at one time, never studied well, quit various activities when I got bored with ot(dance, basketball, etc). Not only that but emotional issues that I just chalked up to my Cuban temper and tender feelings.
I've been on Vyvanse for a year now and I can tell a huge difference. My emotions are in check, I concentrate better, more organized.
I wish I would have been diagnosed in college. I think my life would have been vastly different.
2013-03-17 03:20:17 PM
1 votes:

LograyX: ADHD symptoms do have their purposes, but very few of them apply to modern life.  We have the genes of the people who kept the rest of the tribe safe.  We were aware of every sound and twitch of movement.  When the shiat hit the fan, our attention was hyper-focused.  Our brains are just not made for sitting down and being quiet.

I was on Ritalin for a year in high school, then I stopped taking it for some reason or another.  I went back on it last year and the only regret I have is that if I'm not taking it, my focus is just gone.




Hey, I haven't used that argument in a long time.

Who that guys that pushes the "hunter gather" side of ADHD? NM here it is.
ecx.images-amazon.com

I like the work in AI that models based on ADHD skill-learning rewards.
2013-03-17 03:08:22 PM
1 votes:
ADHD symptoms do have their purposes, but very few of them apply to modern life.  We have the genes of the people who kept the rest of the tribe safe.  We were aware of every sound and twitch of movement.  When the shiat hit the fan, our attention was hyper-focused.  Our brains are just not made for sitting down and being quiet.

I was on Ritalin for a year in high school, then I stopped taking it for some reason or another.  I went back on it last year and the only regret I have is that if I'm not taking it, my focus is just gone.
2013-03-17 02:56:28 PM
1 votes:
But it's still ok for pregnant women to be on anti-depressants, while the brain of their child is forming.
2013-03-17 02:35:44 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Generation_D: studebaker hoch: For people that actually have ADHD, it's a crippling condition.  If you don't have it, you can't know.

If you're lucky, the meds help you.

I dont doubt that, but what we that grew up free range before the era of rampant child brain medication are still stuck not understanding is how you can go from ADHD being a 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10,000 in 1980, but a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 5 by 2000.

Are you all just that much damaged, or perhaps just maybe they over-prescribed ?

It makes zero sense to people who didn't grow up on brain meds to consider that up to maybe what, 20%, 30% of the young adults now are on them, or were on them as kids.

At the same time as TV dominating childhood, precious little snowflakes not playing outside in the dangerous suburbs, and the everybody-must-go-to-college era.

Um, my youth had dozens of hours of TV a week, we had the beginnings of computers and the internet and many computer games and arcade game hours.

Try harder, the fault wasnt the kids then, the fault was the parents and schools of the kids that started all being put on brain meds 10 yrs later for stuff that used to be considered normal, like talking out in class. Used to get you a time out or a smack on the hand. Now it gets you a lifetime sentence of ADHD meds.

Our parents still knew more or less you don't medicate a kid for years because they have a bad attitude for math class.


I'm not sure hich generation you associate yourself with (apt fro the name), but as a 90's kid, I can say there's a confluence of factors in how we were brought up, and psyh/ADHD meds were a big, big factor.
2013-03-17 02:32:33 PM
1 votes:

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Generation_D: studebaker hoch: For people that actually have ADHD, it's a crippling condition.  If you don't have it, you can't know.

If you're lucky, the meds help you.

I dont doubt that, but what we that grew up free range before the era of rampant child brain medication are still stuck not understanding is how you can go from ADHD being a 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10,000 in 1980, but a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 5 by 2000.

Are you all just that much damaged, or perhaps just maybe they over-prescribed ?

It makes zero sense to people who didn't grow up on brain meds to consider that up to maybe what, 20%, 30% of the young adults now are on them, or were on them as kids.

At the same time as TV dominating childhood, precious little snowflakes not playing outside in the dangerous suburbs, and the everybody-must-go-to-college era.


Um, my youth had dozens of hours of TV a week, we had the beginnings of computers and the internet and many computer games and arcade game hours.

Try harder, the fault wasnt the kids then, the fault was the parents and schools of the kids that started all being put on brain meds 10 yrs later for stuff that used to be considered normal, like talking out in class. Used to get you a time out or a smack on the hand. Now it gets you a lifetime sentence of ADHD meds.

Our parents still knew more or less you don't medicate a kid for years because they have a bad attitude for math class.
2013-03-17 02:13:42 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: studebaker hoch: For people that actually have ADHD, it's a crippling condition.  If you don't have it, you can't know.

If you're lucky, the meds help you.

I dont doubt that, but what we that grew up free range before the era of rampant child brain medication are still stuck not understanding is how you can go from ADHD being a 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10,000 in 1980, but a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 5 by 2000.

Are you all just that much damaged, or perhaps just maybe they over-prescribed ?

It makes zero sense to people who didn't grow up on brain meds to consider that up to maybe what, 20%, 30% of the young adults now are on them, or were on them as kids.


At the same time as TV dominating childhood, precious little snowflakes not playing outside in the dangerous suburbs, and the everybody-must-go-to-college era.
2013-03-17 02:00:59 PM
1 votes:
For people that actually have ADHD, it's a crippling condition.  If you don't have it, you can't know.

If you're lucky, the meds help you.
2013-03-17 01:43:13 PM
1 votes:

booksmrt: You guys read the article, right?  It's not about the dangers of prescribing meds to kids with ADHD, ADD, etc. It's about prescribing those and other drugs to students without those disorders as "study drugs".

/please adjust your rants accordingly


Do not attempt to adjust your rants.  We are now in control.  We control the herp, and the derp.
2013-03-17 01:25:31 PM
1 votes:

bifford: Disagree?  You are a failure as a human being and a parent.  Sucks to be you.

I kinda wish my parents had tried medication sooner.  As an adult, I'm trying every ADHD drug on the market and my parents insist they're all poison and that I'm killing myself.  My problem is not that they're poison, it's that nothing works.


Serious question: have you tried cannabis? Caffeine also can help.
2013-03-17 01:23:44 PM
1 votes:
Disagree?  You are a failure as a human being and a parent.  Sucks to be you.

I kinda wish my parents had tried medication sooner.  As an adult, I'm trying every ADHD drug on the market and my parents insist they're all poison and that I'm killing myself.  My problem is not that they're poison, it's that nothing works.
2013-03-17 12:24:22 PM
1 votes:

mrlewish: Aidan: ChubbyTiger: Any teacher who tries to diagnose a psychiatric condition should be fired. Administrators should be tarred and feathered for it.

On the other hand, if our son's teachers had actually said the A-word, we would have gotten to his problems a lot faster. They just kept saying he was having difficulties in school and making terribly unhelpful faces at us. I think they were really terrified of what you just said.

You mean that you, the person that spends far more time with your child than the/a teacher does did not see that something was wrong with your child?

You as the parent are most responsible for determining the physical and mental health of your child.


Why would I have in-a-million-years suspected ADD? I assumed it was totally overdiagnosed, and that most kids who had it were probably just fed too much sugar and left in front of the TV. And my kid wasn't hyper. He just wouldn't listen to anyone and had speech problems. *shrug* Such is life.
2013-03-17 12:24:07 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Looking forward to the eventual crippling civil suits against the drug companies by the grown up kids who had ADHD medicine given them as kids, who now are grown up and can't function without it.


Those people NEED Focalin XR by Novartis, because it is vital to support and maintain healthy brain chemistry!

Why don't you just tell Type I diabetics to stop their insulin and eat healthier, Mr. "100% pharma-free and all-natural?"

Why don't you sue the entire telecom/internet industry, because now you're grown up and can't function in modern society without some form of electronic communication?

/trolling
2013-03-17 12:04:33 PM
1 votes:

Quantum Apostrophe: Why are we changing people to fit society, shouldn't we build things around how people actually are???


no. that's not the way things work and you know it.
2013-03-17 11:33:42 AM
1 votes:
That article seems to be saying something different than the headline-the article seemed to be asserting that perscribing ADHD drugs for non-ADHD people was a bad idea.

That said, I do think it IS both over (and under) diagnosed, and think most diagnosis should be at *least* as thorough as the one I got when I was a kid: Multi-week, double-blind test. I took a pill from a labeled bottle (A through Z, I think?), and rated how I did during the day, and how I felt felt during the day (mentally, etc), as did my teacher and parents. Some bottles contained varying doses of ritalin. Some bottles contained placebos.

'Course, I also know the diagnosis was right, because... whatever it is in our family, it's genetic. (Me, my brother, my mother, the ENTIRE SIDE of my mother's family...)
2013-03-17 11:33:23 AM
1 votes:

Bontesla: My brother's elementary school held my brother's education for ransom. Either my mother gave him medication (the teacher diagnosed him with ADD). My mother never had any issues with my brother and felt his behavior was quite normal. But she was a single parent, working as an aid at the nursing home for 2.25 an hour, taking care of her disabled father, raising three kids, and going to college. She had very little options.

So she went to the doctor and medicated him during the school year. She skipped it during summer. When he reached middle school - she skipped it entirely and no one was the wiser.

My brother didn't have ADD and as an adult he doesn't have ADHD. My brother was just defiant and wanted an explanation for things before he participated. He failed kindergarten for refusing to sit on the rug during story time m


Are you my brother?

Avoided the forced drugging.
2013-03-17 11:10:00 AM
1 votes:

ChubbyTiger: Any teacher who tries to diagnose a psychiatric condition should be fired. Administrators should be tarred and feathered for it.


I'd add to this that every diagnosis of A**D should be signed by two doctors and come with a legal affidavit stating that the doctors in question legally swear that they have no direct ties to any drug companies, nor are they under any form of influence to prescribe medications to children be it coercion from drug companies or recommendations for specific drugs or conditions from supervisors, and that they willingly agree to the suspension of their license to practise medicine of any kind if it is proven that any of the above statements are incorrect.

/Decertify the psychiatric profession!
//Okay, okay, okay, that's unfair. But there really does need to be a major shift in how medicine is prescribed and used in North America, if only to get the costs of medicine down to a sustainable level.
2013-03-17 11:07:05 AM
1 votes:
we'll give the kid methamphetamine
that'll CLEAR THINGS UP!
2013-03-17 11:05:19 AM
1 votes:

ChubbyTiger: Any teacher who tries to diagnose a psychiatric condition should be fired. Administrators should be tarred and feathered for it.


Any parent that sends a difficult child to a public school should receive the same treatment right?
2013-03-17 10:58:25 AM
1 votes:
Any teacher who tries to diagnose a psychiatric condition should be fired. Administrators should be tarred and feathered for it.
2013-03-17 08:39:58 AM
1 votes:
This could easily have had the OBVIOUS tag too.  But I can see where FAIL works....
2013-03-17 07:37:49 AM
1 votes:
i49.tinypic.com
 
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