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(Huffington Post)   Driving the wrong way on a one way road? That's 28 bullets in the body and 40 years in prison   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 86
    More: Scary, Occupy Chicago, Chicago, forensic sciences, Burlington Northern Santa Fe, CPD, martin case, double jeopardy, Chicago Sun-Times  
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2013-03-17 10:22:16 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: omnimancer28: Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.

I dunno.  I have gone through about 15 articles now and I cannot find a single one that mentions evidence that he shot at anyone.  There is no ballistic evidence.  They did not check him for powder residue.  They cannot produce the "hit" bullet-proof vests.  The only witness that came forward claimed that the defendant never discharged his firearm.

I am not claiming he is innocent or that there is any racism involved here.  But that is one ginormous clusterfark when it comes to collecting and maintaining evidence.

It's almost, as if, there was no incentive to do their jobs. Maybe we need to pay these heroes more?


Or it could almost be like his family is lying about a bunch of this and huffpo and a few other blogs are running with it.
 
2013-03-17 10:22:17 AM  

Benjamin Orr: omnimancer28: Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.

I dunno.  I have gone through about 15 articles now and I cannot find a single one that mentions evidence that he shot at anyone.  There is no ballistic evidence.  They did not check him for powder residue.  They cannot produce the "hit" bullet-proof vests.  The only witness that came forward claimed that the defendant never discharged his firearm.

I am not claiming he is innocent or that there is any racism involved here.  But that is one ginormous clusterfark when it comes to collecting and maintaining evidence.

You must be reading different links than me then. They don't mention ballistic tests but they do mention the other cops being shot and taken to the hospital to get the bullets taken out.

ffs even the wiki page says that


I see where the officers claimed to be shot.  I see not mention on the wiki page or any article where they were taken to the hospital for surgery.  Hell, Morgan's defense attorney claimed he never discharged his weapon and his first trial came back with not-guilty verdicts in respect to discharging a firearm and battery.  How the hell did that happen if the cops had his bullets "taken out of them".  That would be pretty foolproof evidence that he shot them.
 
2013-03-17 10:22:47 AM  

Benjamin Orr: You must be reading different links than me then. They don't mention ballistic tests but they do mention the other cops being shot and taken to the hospital to get the bullets taken out.


Given the general accuracy of police in shootings like this, they probably shot each other.
 
2013-03-17 10:23:51 AM  
This story is all lies. I was told in the woman falsely put on death row thread that this kind of thing only happens in areas that are primarily conservative. These cops were obviously just upholding the ideals of the local constituency.

They all deserve medals.
 
2013-03-17 10:27:16 AM  

omnimancer28: Benjamin Orr: omnimancer28: Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.

I dunno.  I have gone through about 15 articles now and I cannot find a single one that mentions evidence that he shot at anyone.  There is no ballistic evidence.  They did not check him for powder residue.  They cannot produce the "hit" bullet-proof vests.  The only witness that came forward claimed that the defendant never discharged his firearm.

I am not claiming he is innocent or that there is any racism involved here.  But that is one ginormous clusterfark when it comes to collecting and maintaining evidence.

You must be reading different links than me then. They don't mention ballistic tests but they do mention the other cops being shot and taken to the hospital to get the bullets taken out.

ffs even the wiki page says that

I see where the officers claimed to be shot.  I see not mention on the wiki page or any article where they were taken to the hospital for surgery.  Hell, Morgan's defense attorney claimed he never discharged his weapon and his first trial came back with not-guilty verdicts in respect to discharging a firearm and battery.  How the hell did that happen if the cops had his bullets "taken out of them".  That would be pretty foolproof evidence that he shot them.


This just in... People are stupid.

Believe whatever you want to believe I guess. If you want to imagine that they made up being shot have fun with that.
 
2013-03-17 10:28:12 AM  
I think I remember this story from Fark.

The way I remember it - after Morgan was shot - the police left the scene. They didn't call for an ambulance or a coroner. They didn't call to report that their weapons had to be discharged. They literally shot the officer 28 times and then left.
 
2013-03-17 10:29:02 AM  
As I said, I have no clue what happened.  All I stated was that making no effort whatsoever to preserve the physical evidence of a shooting is ridiculous.
 
2013-03-17 10:30:26 AM  

Benjamin Orr: StoPPeRmobile: omnimancer28: Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.

I dunno.  I have gone through about 15 articles now and I cannot find a single one that mentions evidence that he shot at anyone.  There is no ballistic evidence.  They did not check him for powder residue.  They cannot produce the "hit" bullet-proof vests.  The only witness that came forward claimed that the defendant never discharged his firearm.

I am not claiming he is innocent or that there is any racism involved here.  But that is one ginormous clusterfark when it comes to collecting and maintaining evidence.

It's almost, as if, there was no incentive to do their jobs. Maybe we need to pay these heroes more?

Or it could almost be like his family is lying about a bunch of this and huffpo and a few other blogs are running with it.


Or, monkeys might fly out of my butt.

So there is that.
 
2013-03-17 10:31:20 AM  
But prosecution testimony indicated that Morgan's gun had fired 17 rounds and tests showed he had traces of gunshot residue on his hands, indicating he had fired the gun, Groth said.


The officers testified that after pulling Morgan's van over he jumped out and began cursing at them. He became more unruly as officers tried to calm him down, Groth said. He ignored requests to put his hand on the van, Groth said.

Olsen was shot in the arm and White was shot in the leg, Groth said.

----------
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-05-13/news/0705120715_1_polic e -identification-service-handgun-police-officer
 
2013-03-17 10:34:55 AM  

Benjamin Orr: But prosecution testimony indicated that Morgan's gun had fired 17 rounds and tests showed he had traces of gunshot residue on his hands, indicating he had fired the gun, Groth said.


The officers testified that after pulling Morgan's van over he jumped out and began cursing at them. He became more unruly as officers tried to calm him down, Groth said. He ignored requests to put his hand on the van, Groth said.

Olsen was shot in the arm and White was shot in the leg, Groth said.

----------
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-05-13/news/0705120715_1_polic e -identification-service-handgun-police-officer


Stop bringing facts into the debate.  There's an Occupy/Nation of Islam fueled outrage going on here.
 
2013-03-17 10:36:56 AM  

Benjamin Orr: But prosecution testimony indicated that Morgan's gun had fired 17 rounds and tests showed he had traces of gunshot residue on his hands, indicating he had fired the gun, Groth said.


The officers testified that after pulling Morgan's van over he jumped out and began cursing at them. He became more unruly as officers tried to calm him down, Groth said. He ignored requests to put his hand on the van, Groth said.

Olsen was shot in the arm and White was shot in the leg, Groth said.

----------
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-05-13/news/0705120715_1_polic e -identification-service-handgun-police-officer


Checking google for "Howard Morgan gunshot residue / GSR"  just pulled up 4 pages of links stating that it was never taken.  Was that piece of evidence allowed into the 2007 trial and not the 2012 trial maybe?
 
2013-03-17 10:38:22 AM  
Oh well...i care about two groups of cops shooting each other up about as much as i care about two drug dealers shooting each other.

At least it wasnt a civilian the cops illegally shot this time.
 
2013-03-17 10:39:52 AM  

doosh: Wait, wait - hold up. This guy was shot 28 times or  shot at 28 times? If the former, how.in.the.holy.hell did he survive? Were they aiming at his pinky toes?!?


Bullets may not hit vital areas, and even if they do, they are not immediately fatal except for a small area of the face.

That's why every self-defense training I've ever heard of recommends that if you have to shoot, keep shooting until your magazine is empty.  You've already decided that deadly force is justified, now is not the time to stop after one and ask "You okay?"
 
2013-03-17 10:48:27 AM  

omnimancer28: As I said, I have no clue what happened.  All I stated was that making no effort whatsoever to preserve the physical evidence of a shooting is ridiculous.


www.informationliberation.com

would tend to agree
 
2013-03-17 10:48:30 AM  

omnimancer28: Benjamin Orr: But prosecution testimony indicated that Morgan's gun had fired 17 rounds and tests showed he had traces of gunshot residue on his hands, indicating he had fired the gun, Groth said.


The officers testified that after pulling Morgan's van over he jumped out and began cursing at them. He became more unruly as officers tried to calm him down, Groth said. He ignored requests to put his hand on the van, Groth said.

Olsen was shot in the arm and White was shot in the leg, Groth said.

----------
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-05-13/news/0705120715_1_polic e -identification-service-handgun-police-officer

Checking google for "Howard Morgan gunshot residue / GSR"  just pulled up 4 pages of links stating that it was never taken.  Was that piece of evidence allowed into the 2007 trial and not the 2012 trial maybe?


Strange... When i google "howard morgan gunshot residue" the very first result is the article I linked to.
 
2013-03-17 10:49:36 AM  

Mister Peejay: doosh: Wait, wait - hold up. This guy was shot 28 times or  shot at 28 times? If the former, how.in.the.holy.hell did he survive? Were they aiming at his pinky toes?!?

Bullets may not hit vital areas, and even if they do, they are not immediately fatal except for a small area of the face.

That's why every self-defense training I've ever heard of recommends that if you have to shoot, keep shooting until your magazine is empty.  You've already decided that deadly force is justified, now is not the time to stop after one and ask "You okay?"




28/3 = ?

What guns have capacities where that is possible? Did one guy not follow this "rule?"
 
2013-03-17 10:50:01 AM  

Benjamin Orr: But prosecution testimony indicated that Morgan's gun had fired 17 rounds and tests showed he had traces of gunshot residue on his hands, indicating he had fired the gun, Groth said.


The officers testified that after pulling Morgan's van over he jumped out and began cursing at them. He became more unruly as officers tried to calm him down, Groth said. He ignored requests to put his hand on the van, Groth said.

Olsen was shot in the arm and White was shot in the leg, Groth said.

----------
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-05-13/news/0705120715_1_polic e -identification-service-handgun-police-officer


Way to leave out the parts of that article that are inconvenient to you, ace.

Morgan's lawyer, Sam Adam Jr., said his client said in testimony that after being pulled over he was yanked out of his car and pounced on by the officers after telling them he was a police officer. Adam said Morgan struggled to get free to show his police identification.

"He's in custody saying, 'I'm a cop,' 'I'm a cop,' I'm a cop,' " Adam said.

As the officers searched him, one of the officers found Morgan's gun in his waistband and yelled out, "Gun!" Adam said. He said Morgan felt the gun ripped out of his waistband as the shooting started.

Adam said the officers were shot by "friendly fire."


The thing that's inconsistent between these articles is whether or not the gunshot residue tests were actually produced or not.

Of course, you do end up with one of the whiniest cop statements I've ever seen:

"You shot me, Morgan," Wrigley yelled in court. "You came very close to taking my life."

Shot once in the leg = came close to ending his life.  Shot 28 times?  Eh...
 
2013-03-17 10:55:27 AM  

Benjamin Orr: Officer Eric White told the judge he drove his wounded partner, Officer Nicholas Olsen, to the hospital.

"By the grace of God, all of us, including Howard Morgan, survived that morning," he read from a victim-impact statement.

"The bullet fragment in my leg doesn't really bother me. The one I heard and felt whiz past my left ear that gives me nightmares, and watching as he shot John Wrigley in the chest will torment me forever," he read.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/11730457-418/40-years-in-prison-f o r-man-shot-28-times-by-chicago-cops.html


I wonder if any ballistic evidence was presented to show if the bullet fragment came from Morgan's gun, which the first jury says wasn't discharged, or friendly fire from one of the other three cops.... maybe a ricochet  off Morgan's van, which is why it had to be destroyed before forensic evidence could be gathered?
 
2013-03-17 10:57:05 AM  
Morgan had a black gun. Proof.
 
2013-03-17 10:57:32 AM  

Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.


If that were the case then the charge for discharging a firearm would have stuck.
 
2013-03-17 11:07:48 AM  

runescorpio: Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.

If that were the case then the charge for discharging a firearm would have stuck.


And OJ was innocent
 
2013-03-17 11:10:03 AM  

Benjamin Orr: runescorpio: Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.

If that were the case then the charge for discharging a firearm would have stuck.

And OJ was innocent


Wat?
 
2013-03-17 11:10:27 AM  

vermiis: Benjamin Orr: But prosecution testimony indicated that Morgan's gun had fired 17 rounds and tests showed he had traces of gunshot residue on his hands, indicating he had fired the gun, Groth said.


The officers testified that after pulling Morgan's van over he jumped out and began cursing at them. He became more unruly as officers tried to calm him down, Groth said. He ignored requests to put his hand on the van, Groth said.

Olsen was shot in the arm and White was shot in the leg, Groth said.

----------
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-05-13/news/0705120715_1_polic e -identification-service-handgun-police-officer

Way to leave out the parts of that article that are inconvenient to you, ace.

Morgan's lawyer, Sam Adam Jr., said his client said in testimony that after being pulled over he was yanked out of his car and pounced on by the officers after telling them he was a police officer. Adam said Morgan struggled to get free to show his police identification.

"He's in custody saying, 'I'm a cop,' 'I'm a cop,' I'm a cop,' " Adam said.

As the officers searched him, one of the officers found Morgan's gun in his waistband and yelled out, "Gun!" Adam said. He said Morgan felt the gun ripped out of his waistband as the shooting started.

Adam said the officers were shot by "friendly fire."

The thing that's inconsistent between these articles is whether or not the gunshot residue tests were actually produced or not.

Of course, you do end up with one of the whiniest cop statements I've ever seen:

"You shot me, Morgan," Wrigley yelled in court. "You came very close to taking my life."

Shot once in the leg = came close to ending his life.  Shot 28 times?  Eh...


Sigh. We were talking about whether there were gsr tests or not.

Of course there is going to be a he said she said aspect to a trial.
 
2013-03-17 11:12:18 AM  

Bontesla: Benjamin Orr: runescorpio: Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.

If that were the case then the charge for discharging a firearm would have stuck.

And OJ was innocent

Wat?


Wat?
 
2013-03-17 11:13:13 AM  

Benjamin Orr: Bontesla: Benjamin Orr: runescorpio: Benjamin Orr: onyxruby: This sounds horrible, in have to wonder if there is something being left out.

This is just a biased hit piece. Every other source that isn't huffpo actually mentions the fact that the cops were shot.

If that were the case then the charge for discharging a firearm would have stuck.

And OJ was innocent

Wat?

Wat?


Please elaborate.
 
2013-03-17 11:20:22 AM  
StoPPeRmobile:
28/3 = ?

What guns have capacities where that is possible? Did one guy not follow this "rule?"


Oh, yeah, the other reason why that's taught in self-defense courses.  You're probably going to miss a few, too.
 
2013-03-17 11:24:55 AM  
The wikipedia article:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Morgan_case

The most detailed news article I've found so far:  http://austinweeklynews.1upsoftware.com/print.asp?ArticleID=1223
 
2013-03-17 11:28:11 AM  

Mister Peejay: StoPPeRmobile:
28/3 = ?

What guns have capacities where that is possible? Did one guy not follow this "rule?"

Oh, yeah, the other reason why that's taught in self-defense courses.  You're probably going to miss a few, too.


Ah, I thought there was 28 shots fired.
 
2013-03-17 11:37:30 AM  
With the Dorner case still fairly fresh in our minds - do you remember how easy it was to find contradictory or inaccurate news articles? That's one of the benefits of having a trial - there's an official record of the evidence used to try the case.

I'm curious to see what the legal transcripts show and what evidence was actually submitted for both trials. Was there gun powder tests run on Morgan? Were the bullets found in the arresting officer a direct match to Morgan's gun? When the scene was recreated - what were the odds on who shot first?
 
2013-03-17 11:50:36 AM  
So...... officers are called to the scene because of reports of a gun being fired. They see a van going the wrong way down a one-way street. They pull over the van and with guns drawn remove the black suspect, who likely gives them attitude because he's a cop himself. While frisking him one of the officers shouts out, "Oh shiat, he's got a gun!". A nervous cop fires his weapon, causing all the other officers to fire their weapons. Given how close they were all to each other and the van the officers likely wounded each other with friendly fire and/or a  ricochet. Thinking they just killed a fellow officer they take his weapon and fire it into the air and maybe even into a bullet-proof jacket of one of the officers in order to justify things.

/Too far fetched?
 
2013-03-17 12:01:25 PM  
Cops  vs rent a cop. Ducebaggery overload.
 
2013-03-17 12:42:58 PM  

Bontesla: With the Dorner case still fairly fresh in our minds - do you remember how easy it was to find contradictory or inaccurate news articles? That's one of the benefits of having a trial - there's an official record of the evidence used to try the case.

I'm curious to see what the legal transcripts show and what evidence was actually submitted for both trials. Was there gun powder tests run on Morgan? Were the bullets found in the arresting officer a direct match to Morgan's gun? When the scene was recreated - what were the odds on who shot first?


So, let's get the documents we need! Here's the "Supplemental motion for acquittal, or in the alternative, motion for a new trial".

And the appellate decision.
 
2013-03-17 12:54:34 PM  
But I was assured that racism was over.
 
2013-03-17 12:57:16 PM  
Fox News is always admonished here for being a biased news shill for its own political agenda.
Yet an article from HufPo, a professional blog that serves only to the interests of its liberal/left founder, isn't questioned and is considered journalism.
 
2013-03-17 01:49:39 PM  

tricycleracer: But I was assured that racism was over.


I use racism every day. Just like Irish and polish immigrants.
 
m00
2013-03-17 01:53:22 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: The wikipedia article:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Morgan_case

The most detailed news article I've found so far:  http://austinweeklynews.1upsoftware.com/print.asp?ArticleID=1223


"By then there was lots of police and one looked up and saw us. He then came upstairs to see if anyone had witnessed the shooting. We all said no, my sister-in-law had just lost her sister, and we had a funeral to attend," stated Rush. However, two officers returned, and she did agree to tell what she had witnessed. Rush's statements were taken by assistant state's attorneys, and during Tuesday's court session, there were several contradictions regarding Rush's written statement. The defense determined that she did not write the statement. It was written for her by the assistant state's attorneys. "


Wow. That's scary. That's what you call circling the wagons.
 
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