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(Slate)   The true story of Saint Patrick, the man who drove the most terrifying creatures known to man out of Ireland   (slate.com) divider line 77
    More: Hero, Saint Patrick, Ireland, David Plotz, Irish immigrants, Trinity, Christianization, evangelical protestant, Irish people  
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10246 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2013 at 3:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-17 05:10:21 AM

thisispete: And even after the fall of Rome, it wasn't very long until they tried to get things going again under Charlemagne.


By which I mean 3 centuries, but the ideal of Rome persisted until then.
 
2013-03-17 05:10:54 AM

AbbeySomeone: the801: Snarfangel: [ladygeekgirl.files.wordpress.com image 813x606]

i don't know why, but i just had a small orgasm. i think it was the wrong kind. again.

Annie Hall


Manhattan.
 
2013-03-17 05:15:27 AM

Duck_of_Doom: Last night, Fox Family Channel aired its made-for-TV movie St. Patrick. Fox's Patrick is mostly drawn from the historical record, but the producers added one new storyline. The English parent church demands that Patrick collect its church taxes in Ireland. Patrick rebels and risks excommunication by the British bishop. The fearless colonist leads a tax revolt against the villainous English.

Oh for cryin' out loud.


Area Man morans Passionate Defender Of What They Imagine St. Patrick's Day To Be
 
2013-03-17 05:18:16 AM

Duck_of_Doom: Last night, Fox Family Channel aired its made-for-TV movie St. Patrick. Fox's Patrick is mostly drawn from the historical record, but the producers added one new storyline. The English parent church demands that Patrick collect its church taxes in Ireland. Patrick rebels and risks excommunication by the British bishop. The fearless colonist leads a tax revolt against the villainous English.

Oh for cryin' out loud.


Well, it could have happened!  We don't know much about Pat's life, officially.  ;-)
 
2013-03-17 05:19:59 AM

Shadowtag: ArkAngel: Lsherm: Ireland's Protestant minority, by contrast, denies that Patrick was a bishop or that he was sent by Rome. They depict him as anti-Roman Catholic and credit him with inventing a distinctly Celtic church, with its own homegrown symbols and practices. He is an Irish hero, not a Catholic one.

Outside Ireland, too, Patrick has been freely reinterpreted. Evangelical Protestants claim him as one of their own. After all, he read his Bible, and his faith came to him in visions.

Protestants can be delusional.

You Catholics support a child molesting church and you call us delusional?

I talk to trees and I'm calling you both delusional.


Then you might find this interesting
 
2013-03-17 05:22:10 AM
i49.tinypic.com
 
2013-03-17 05:47:19 AM

odinsposse: sendtodave: <i>Cahill's book, which could just as well be titledHow St. Patrick Saved Civilization, contends that Patrick's conversion of Ireland allowed Western learning to survive the Dark Ages. Ireland pacified and churchified as the rest of Europe crumbled. </i>

I was told that the Church caused the Dark Ages.

Nope. The Roman Empire fell for a lot of reasons but the Church isn't really one of them. The Byzantines held together really well and, at the time, were more resolutely Christian than the Western part of Europe. The Church really was the only organizing influence that spanned Europe at the time. They preserved more and advanced more knowledge than any secular source in the continent. Without the Church there wouldn't have even been the tradition of literacy that allowed them to study the works that Arab scholars preserved.


Having read the book, its argument is that the irish were bent on copying not just church works (like most monks), but all sorts of secular philosophy. Rome wasn't particularly fond of that, but those irish monks were the ones who reintegrated those works into europe as the founded and spread monasteries on the mainland (basically, when one got too large, they sent senior monks out to start their own- which created a pretty decent distribution network). Arab scholars were indeed preserving the works, but they weren't exactly integrating them back into european society. Without the Irish monks, Plato would just be some archaic text buried somewhere, probably lost, not the founding canon of western civilization.
 
2013-03-17 06:05:20 AM

rynthetyn:

The Arabic world is what kept many of the ancient texts that allowed western learning to survive the dark ages. For someone who accuses others of having a reading comprehension problem, you have a hard time yourself. Not to mention a weak understanding of history. There was a lot of ancient knowledge that actually had to be retranslated from Arabic back into western languages because the only thing that survived the dark ages was the Arabic translations. Not to mention all of the ancient texts that the Arabs saved and hung on to, and the fact that Spain and all of the knowledge there was saved from falling into darkness by the Moorish occupation. Spain was the one light in a very dark Europe.

So, you share his problem, eh?  Try again, bunky.  Of the knowledge was kept in Europe, most of it was kept by the Irish.  It's not really that hard.

With slow learners, sometimes an example from another field helps comprehension...  Let's see:

Person 1: "Hey, look here.  It says that all of the Checker Marathons, which used to be the only car used by the Checker Taxi Company, were manufactured in Kalamazoo, MI, by Checker Motors Corporation."

Person 2: "That's bullshiat.  I was in a cab in NYC last month, and it was a Chevy."

Person 1: "Well, then, it wasn't a Checker Marathon, was it?"

Does that make more sense that way?  Hopefully so.  With that in mind,  well then, that information that came from Arabia wasn't saved in Europe, was it?

 
2013-03-17 06:23:33 AM

teto85: Snarfangel: [ladygeekgirl.files.wordpress.com image 813x606]


gallery1.anivide.com

okay...Does this help?

s22.postimage.org
 
2013-03-17 07:08:54 AM
Hey Paddy boyo, you missed a couple.

thumbs.anyclip.com
 
2013-03-17 07:08:54 AM
Of course, one hears a lot of apochryuphal tales, as a child. When I was a wee lad, in first grade, Sister Mary Rose explained it to me that St. Patrick had run all the snakes out of Ireland.
And then they swam across the Atlantic to New York, and Boston.
Where they joined the police force.
 
2013-03-17 07:20:01 AM
Lawyers?

/I kid.  I'm a lawyer.

odinsposse: sendtodave: <i>Cahill's book, which could just as well be titledHow St. Patrick Saved Civilization, contends that Patrick's conversion of Ireland allowed Western learning to survive the Dark Ages. Ireland pacified and churchified as the rest of Europe crumbled. </i>

I was told that the Church caused the Dark Ages.

Nope. The Roman Empire fell for a lot of reasons but the Church isn't really one of them. The Byzantines held together really well and, at the time, were more resolutely Christian than the Western part of Europe. The Church really was the only organizing influence that spanned Europe at the time. They preserved more and advanced more knowledge than any secular source in the continent. Without the Church there wouldn't have even been the tradition of literacy that allowed them to study the works that Arab scholars preserved.


QT.  Since Gibbon, the Church has unfairly got the blame but there were a lot of factors at work (e.g., the revolving-door leadership of the late Empire, the collapse of the economy and trade resulting from an unstable Roman government, climate change, etc.).  Some good recent reads on the subject are How Rome Fell and The Fall of Rome.
 
2013-03-17 08:43:06 AM
The scarcity of facts about St. Patrick's life has made him a dress-up doll: Anyone can create his own St. Patrick.

Oh look, Christian historians and apologists claim he "fixed" all of the world's problems caused entirely by the scourge of paganism, which just went disappeared passively and non-violently. *yawn*



/hey, what are all these Green Men doing in the eaves of Irish churches...?
 
2013-03-17 09:09:14 AM

Lsherm: Ireland's Protestant minority, by contrast, denies that Patrick was a bishop or that he was sent by Rome. They depict him as anti-Roman Catholic and credit him with inventing a distinctly Celtic church, with its own homegrown symbols and practices. He is an Irish hero, not a Catholic one.

Outside Ireland, too, Patrick has been freely reinterpreted. Evangelical Protestants claim him as one of their own. After all, he read his Bible, and his faith came to him in visions.

Protestants can be delusional.


As an evangelical Protestant, this is news to me.
 
2013-03-17 09:57:20 AM
chirho.me
 
2013-03-17 10:10:52 AM
Why do Priest hate Pagan hippie chicks? Is it because the Pagan hippie chicks  run around nude and are very, very, very, very friendly...if you know what I mean.

/Only skimmed a few paragraphs
/There is a lot of speculation in History
 
2013-03-17 10:36:33 AM
Democrats?
 
2013-03-17 11:32:39 AM
The native people who didn't follow the exact same religion as St. Pattycakes?
 
2013-03-17 11:38:19 AM
Gigantic spiders?
 
2013-03-17 01:11:39 PM

cmunic8r99: Republicans and clowns?


Intolerant, ignorant, self-important dipshiats like cmunic8r99 who drag politics into everything with blanketing prejudice?
 
2013-03-17 01:17:20 PM

Mael99: cmunic8r99: Republicans and clowns?

Intolerant, ignorant, self-important dipshiats like cmunic8r99 who drag politics into everything with blanketing prejudice?


Nope.
 
2013-03-17 01:54:39 PM

MikeSass: Patrick was no more British than Columbus was Italian.  Yes, Wales is now part of England, but when Patrick was born it was actually part of Scotland.  He was therefore a Scot.  Same deal with Columbus.  He was born in Genoa, which is now part of Italy.  But at the time it was not.  It was independent, so much so that they had their own language.  Columbus didn't even speak Italian.




Wales isn't part of England. It's a separate country within the United Kingdom. If you come from Wales you're Welsh, not Scottish or English or anything else, no matter at what time you were born. Wales, Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Ireland are all part of the British Isles. If you are Scottish you are also British. If you are English you are also British. If you are Welsh you are also British at the same time. You see how this works?
 
2013-03-17 03:46:57 PM
Spiral Monkey
Wales, Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Ireland are all part of the British Isles.

You don't refer to Irish people as British unless you want your ass kicked.
 
2013-03-17 06:03:55 PM
but.... but...... but don;t they still have ex-wives??? Are they Really all gone???
 
2013-03-17 06:05:40 PM

GAT_00: rynthetyn: GAT_00: According to Thomas Cahill, author of How the Irish Saved Civilization, Paddy's influence extended far beyond his adopted land. Cahill's book, which could just as well be titled How St. Patrick Saved Civilization, contends that Patrick's conversion of Ireland allowed Western learning to survive the Dark Ages. Ireland pacified and churchified as the rest of Europe crumbled

This is ignoring the incredibly important role played by Arabic civilizations who were instrumental in returning educational texts back to Europe once the Dark Ages ended.

But those dang muslins just ran around killing everybody, don't you know? It was the monks who invented Algebra and introduced the concept of zero to europe, not those heathen savages who took over the holy land.

I suppose I can understand, but I still think it's hilarious that the concept of zero scared the fark out of people and all knowledge of it was suppressed for years.



Or naught.
 
2013-03-18 10:42:31 AM

Spiralmonkey: MikeSass: Patrick was no more British than Columbus was Italian.  Yes, Wales is now part of England, but when Patrick was born it was actually part of Scotland.  He was therefore a Scot.  Same deal with Columbus.  He was born in Genoa, which is now part of Italy.  But at the time it was not.  It was independent, so much so that they had their own language.  Columbus didn't even speak Italian.

Wales isn't part of England. It's a separate country within the United Kingdom. If you come from Wales you're Welsh, not Scottish or English or anything else, no matter at what time you were born. Wales, Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Ireland are all part of the British Isles. If you are Scottish you are also British. If you are English you are also British. If you are Welsh you are also British at the same time. You see how this works?


When you're talking historically, it's much more about tribal migration than any sort of geographical distinction. The first people on the Isles were the Celts and the Picts. Then the Romans invaded, but had pulled their government out right around the time Patrick was alive. After them came the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, then Vikings, and finally, Normans.

So if you want to call Patrick anything, call him a Briton. He was born in Wales and probably had a combination of Celtic and Roman blood. But you can't call him Welsh, because there wasn't a Wales back then - not until Uffa's Dyke was erected by the Mercian king, around 8th century or so.
 
2013-03-18 01:38:56 PM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
St. Patrick (Tribett)
 
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