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(Yahoo)   A cardinal who helped get Pope Francis elected says that pedophilia is a "disorder", not a crime: "I don't think you can really take the position and say that person deserves to be punished"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 198
    More: Sick, Pope Francis, Durban, pope  
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2716 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Mar 2013 at 6:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-16 03:00:46 PM  
Excuses are like assholes:  everybody has one and nobody wants to hear it.
 
2013-03-16 03:04:13 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Excuses are like assholes:  everybody has one and nobody wants to hear it.


I don't know about you, but I wanna hear some assholes!
 
2013-03-16 03:08:04 PM  
a lot of people say alchaholism is a disorder too, does that mean a guy who kills 3 kids while drunk drivinh shouldn't be punished?
 
2013-03-16 03:16:05 PM  

monty666: BarkingUnicorn: Excuses are like assholes:  everybody has one and nobody wants to hear it.

I don't know about you, but I wanna hear some assholes!


Knock yerself out.
 
2013-03-16 03:44:31 PM  

ManateeGag: a lot of people say alchaholism is a disorder too, does that mean a guy who kills 3 kids while drunk drivinh shouldn't be punished?


Yes.  That's exactly what he means, if the offender is a priest.
 
2013-03-16 03:53:41 PM  
So I'm guessing that means he's done it himself.
 
2013-03-16 03:55:27 PM  

GAT_00: So I'm guessing that means he's done it himself.


Bingo
 
2013-03-16 04:03:34 PM  

GAT_00: So I'm guessing that means he's done it himself.


What was your first clue?
 
2013-03-16 04:30:43 PM  
.... Err, pedophilia is a disorder, not a crime. Child molestation, however, is a very serious crime. I have compassion for pedophiles but none for those who act on their desires. Presumably, no one actually chooses pedophilia.
 
2013-03-16 04:36:52 PM  
I think there's definitely an argument that pedophilia is a disorder and the demonization of it prevents people from getting help before they assault a child. Of course, then a bunch of different shiatty aspects of our culture will work to cover up and minimize that assault. So we can't help them before they assault a child because it's too terrible to admit to having, and then afterwards we can't help the child because we don't want to admit that one of us did that. It's the worst of both worlds. Also very important to point out in this sort of discussion that these two things are not mutually exclusive. We can recognize pedophilia as a disorder that needs treatment or some sort of help while still understanding that assaulting a child is still assaulting a child.

All of this doesn't really matter in the context of the article though. Because the church has made very explicitly clear that protecting children is not their first priority. Probably not even in the top ten.
 
2013-03-16 05:07:35 PM  
Die in a black smokey fire you freak.
 
2013-03-16 05:08:40 PM  
I think this headline is a bit unfair to the new Pope. The more I read about Francis, the more inclined I am to believe that he is the right man to clean up this mess.
 
2013-03-16 05:10:45 PM  

kxs401: .... Err, pedophilia is a disorder, not a crime. Child molestation, however, is a very serious crime. I have compassion for pedophiles but none for those who act on their desires. Presumably, no one actually chooses pedophilia.


It sounds a little bit like the Church's position on homosexuality: being gay in and of itself isn't a sin, it's acting on it that's the sin.

The problem, though, is that this seems to continue to argue that the Church itself should be allowed to continue to deal with pedophiles in its midst as an internal issue, not an issue that needs to be reported to authorities.
 
2013-03-16 05:12:40 PM  

jake_lex: kxs401: .... Err, pedophilia is a disorder, not a crime. Child molestation, however, is a very serious crime. I have compassion for pedophiles but none for those who act on their desires. Presumably, no one actually chooses pedophilia.

It sounds a little bit like the Church's position on homosexuality: being gay in and of itself isn't a sin, it's acting on it that's the sin.

The problem, though, is that this seems to continue to argue that the Church itself should be allowed to continue to deal with pedophiles in its midst as an internal issue, not an issue that needs to be reported to authorities.


Is the cover-up worse than the crime in this case (these cases)?
 
2013-03-16 05:16:34 PM  
"From my experience, pedophilia is actually an illness. It's not a criminal condition, it's an illness," he said.

It's both.

Whatever you want to call them, they belong in a cage.
 
2013-03-16 05:16:52 PM  
It's both.

Ignoring the psychiatric and medical aspects of prevention and just focusing on the punative aftermath only allows the continued victimization of children.
 
2013-03-16 05:17:40 PM  
Why can't it be both?
*insert Mexican girl picture here*
 
2013-03-16 05:18:08 PM  
An incurable disorder, which should be treated by life long incarceration.

/personally, I'd take em out back and cure em with a bullet
//like a farmer and a chicken eating dog
 
2013-03-16 05:20:27 PM  

hardinparamedic: It's both.

Ignoring the psychiatric and medical aspects of prevention and just focusing on the punative aftermath only allows the continued victimization of children.


And I'd definitely agree with that, but these comments, in the context of the Church's shameful insistence on sweeping this under the rug and not cooperating with civil authorities to prosecute these cases, make me doubt the sincerity of these statements.
 
2013-03-16 05:20:37 PM  

basemetal: An incurable disorder, which should be treated by life long incarceration.

/personally, I'd take em out back and cure em with a bullet
//like a farmer and a chicken eating dog


Why would you shoot a farmer?
 
2013-03-16 05:23:30 PM  

basemetal: An incurable disorder, which should be treated by life long incarceration.

/personally, I'd take em out back and cure em with a bullet
//like a farmer and a chicken eating dog


Why do you hate homosexual dogs so much?

There's nothing wrong with a pooch who just wants to gobble some cock, you know.
 
2013-03-16 05:24:07 PM  

jake_lex: hardinparamedic: It's both.

Ignoring the psychiatric and medical aspects of prevention and just focusing on the punative aftermath only allows the continued victimization of children.

And I'd definitely agree with that, but these comments, in the context of the Church's shameful insistence on sweeping this under the rug and not cooperating with civil authorities to prosecute these cases, make me doubt the sincerity of these statements.


Exactly, there's a need for our society to stop frothing at the mouth at the word paedophile and begin examining the root causes and how best to deal with them to stop them before they offend, rather than lock them up forever after they offend.... but I don't think a Cardinal in the Catholic church is really trying to get this ball rolling for an altruistic purpose. So we need someone else to start the ball rolling. Also investigate him for paedophilia.
 
2013-03-16 05:24:41 PM  

hardinparamedic: basemetal: An incurable disorder, which should be treated by life long incarceration.

/personally, I'd take em out back and cure em with a bullet
//like a farmer and a chicken eating dog

Why do you hate homosexual dogs so much?

There's nothing wrong with a pooch who just wants to gobble some cock, you know.


That was just baaaaaaaaa'd.
 
2013-03-16 05:27:15 PM  
I have a "disorder" that makes me want to punch this guy in the face.

So it should be legal for me to punch him in the face as much as I want.  If he doesn't like me punching him in the face, then he's intolerant and hateful and needs sensitivity training so he can understand people who want to punch him in the face.
 
2013-03-16 05:29:04 PM  
Time for me to get my ass kicked on Fark again

Le sigh

Pedophilia is a disorder. Child Sexual Abuse is a crime. Those two are not always mutually exclusive.
 
2013-03-16 05:32:36 PM  

monty666: BarkingUnicorn: Excuses are like assholes:  everybody has one and nobody wants to hear it.

I don't know about you, but I wanna hear some assholes!


Beans. We will need lots and lots of beans.
 
2013-03-16 05:43:26 PM  

swaniefrmreddeer: hardinparamedic: basemetal: An incurable disorder, which should be treated by life long incarceration.

/personally, I'd take em out back and cure em with a bullet
//like a farmer and a chicken eating dog

Why do you hate homosexual dogs so much?

There's nothing wrong with a pooch who just wants to gobble some cock, you know.

That was just baaaaaaaaa'd.


This thread is getting punny.
 
2013-03-16 05:46:14 PM  
Setting aside whether or not a cardinal is qualified to make legal decisions, shouldn't it be a far greater sin than homosexuality? Indeed, shouldn't it be a mortal sin (going by Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge):

1. Its subject must be a grave (or serious) matter.

2. It must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense (no one is considered ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are inborn as part of human knowledge, but these principles can be misunderstood in a particular context).

3. It must be committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin.

Unlike law, a cardinal should be qualified to make judgments on where it stands in the hierarchy of sins. If he is clearly unqualified to do so, then he should be sent back to the minors, or whatever it is Catholics do.
 
2013-03-16 05:46:52 PM  
If he was just saying that the attraction to children is itself a disorder and not a crime unless acted upon, that would be one thing, but asshole is saying that pedophiles who abuse children shouldn't be held criminally responsible:

 "Now don't tell me that those people are criminally responsible like somebody who chooses to do something like that. I don't think you can really take the position and say that person deserves to be punished. He was himself damaged."
 
2013-03-16 05:55:04 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-16 05:58:46 PM  

Snarfangel: Setting aside whether or not a cardinal is qualified to make legal decisions, shouldn't it be a far greater sin than homosexuality? Indeed, shouldn't it be a mortal sin (going by Wikipedia, the font of all knowledge):

1. Its subject must be a grave (or serious) matter.

2. It must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense (no one is considered ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are inborn as part of human knowledge, but these principles can be misunderstood in a particular context).

3. It must be committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin.

Unlike law, a cardinal should be qualified to make judgments on where it stands in the hierarchy of sins. If he is clearly unqualified to do so, then he should be sent back to the minors, or whatever it is Catholics do.


Based on his comments, I'd say he'd argue #3 doesn't apply because compulsion isn't necessarily deliberate and complete consent.
 
2013-03-16 06:10:01 PM  
www.neurope.eu
Was molesting all those children and then covering it up so that our priests could avoid criminal prosecution and the Church could avoid civil liability wrong? Should we not have done that continue to do that?
 
2013-03-16 06:13:47 PM  

oldfarthenry: Why can't it be both?
*insert Mexican girl picture here*


Why don't you have a seat over there.

I'm not sure if everyone saying it's both realizes the difference between thought and action. As sick as it may be, simply being attracted to children or even fantasizing about them is not and should not be a crime.
 
2013-03-16 06:28:33 PM  

Happy Hours: oldfarthenry: Why can't it be both?
*insert Mexican girl picture here*

Why don't you have a seat over there.

I'm not sure if everyone saying it's both realizes the difference between thought and action. As sick as it may be, simply being attracted to children or even fantasizing about them is not and should not be a crime.


This asshole cardinal is specifically saying that the action should not be criminally culpable because the child molester can't help it.
 
2013-03-16 06:48:31 PM  
Consenting Gays  - no communion
Known Child Molesters = give communion

Zero credibility in all matters related to good morality.
 
2013-03-16 06:49:33 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Is the cover-up worse than the crime in this case (these cases)?


If the cover up and silence gets more children abused then I'd say yes.
 
2013-03-16 06:51:37 PM  

basemetal: An incurable disorder, which should be treated by life long incarceration.

/personally, I'd take em out back and cure em with a bullet
//like a farmer and a chicken eating dog


Are we talking about a large chicken eating a small dog? Or was this chicken eating a dead dog?
 
2013-03-16 06:52:34 PM  

cman: Time for me to get my ass kicked on Fark again

Le sigh

Pedophilia is a disorder. Child Sexual Abuse is a crime. Those two are not always mutually exclusive.


You're right. The cardinal is still being disingenuous, though. He is implying society locks people up for being pedophiles when we actually lock them up for acting on their pedophilic urges
 
2013-03-16 06:52:44 PM  
Pedophilia is like rabies and the cure's the same.
 
2013-03-16 06:54:16 PM  

Sock Ruh Tease: cman: Time for me to get my ass kicked on Fark again

Le sigh

Pedophilia is a disorder. Child Sexual Abuse is a crime. Those two are not always mutually exclusive.

You're right. The cardinal is still being disingenuous, though. He is implying society locks people up for being pedophiles when we actually lock them up for acting on their pedophilic urges


And not only that, he's actually saying that society shouldn't lock people up for acting on their urges because it's a disorder and they can't help it.
 
2013-03-16 06:54:19 PM  
It is a disorder. the act of raping a child is a crime.

No desire, no though, no wish, should EVER be a crime. because from there it's not too many steps before thoughtcrime is a reality.

ACTS are crimes. not thoughts.

/every time I point this out to people I get the "are you defending child molestors/rapists/etc/ect"?
 
2013-03-16 06:54:47 PM  

notto: Consenting Gays  - no communion
Known Child Molesters = give communion

Zero credibility in all matters related to good morality.


Since when has the RCC had any interest in morality?
 
2013-03-16 06:55:53 PM  

Snarfangel: monty666: BarkingUnicorn: Excuses are like assholes:  everybody has one and nobody wants to hear it.

I don't know about you, but I wanna hear some assholes!

Beans. We will need lots and lots of beans.


How about some more beans, Mr. Taggart?
lavatoryreader.typepad.com
 
2013-03-16 06:56:10 PM  

SuperT: ACTS are crimes. not thoughts.


Thoughtcrime!!
 
2013-03-16 06:59:37 PM  

SuperT: It is a disorder. the act of raping a child is a crime.

No desire, no though, no wish, should EVER be a crime. because from there it's not too many steps before thoughtcrime is a reality.

ACTS are crimes. not thoughts.


This

/every time I point this out to people I get the "are you defending child molestors/rapists/etc/ect"?

And, sadly, this.
 
2013-03-16 07:00:41 PM  

SuperT: not too many steps before thoughtcrime is a reality.


Thoughtcrime is already a reality. A white punches a white guy it's simple assault. A white punches a black guy it's a "hate crime".

1984 is the past, not the future.
 
2013-03-16 07:00:48 PM  
Liberals should love this guy!  No personal responsibility!  Get them a handicapped parking space and send them a check!
 
2013-03-16 07:05:11 PM  

ManateeGag: a lot of people say alchaholism is a disorder too, does that mean a guy who kills 3 kids while drunk drivinh shouldn't be punished?


What if the guy became an alcoholic because he was sexual abused as a child?
 
2013-03-16 07:08:50 PM  
From my experience, pedophilia is actually an illness. It's not a criminal condition, it's an illness,"

[jonstewartyourenothelping]

Wanting to diddle kids might be an illness but acting on those impulses is an actual crime.

Ya see this is kinda why I don't take moral advice from the RCC any more.
 
2013-03-16 07:09:25 PM  
Remember, these guys think pedophilia is just being very naughty, but if you wear a condom? WHAM! STRAIGHT INTO HELL!!!
 
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