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(Slate)   "I'm sorry my autistic child is acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it"   (slate.com) divider line 237
    More: Interesting, acting out, sensitivity training  
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18015 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2013 at 4:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-03-16 04:06:38 PM
28 votes:
Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.
2013-03-16 12:44:09 PM
23 votes:
You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.
2013-03-16 04:19:56 PM
16 votes:
He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.



Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?
2013-03-16 12:54:09 PM
16 votes:
Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.
2013-03-16 12:44:54 PM
16 votes:
To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."
2013-03-16 02:56:32 PM
15 votes:
Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?
2013-03-16 04:14:45 PM
14 votes:
#1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.
2013-03-16 04:39:48 PM
13 votes:

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


The faux outrage over your friend/son/mother's condition is petulant at best.  You are asking me to adjust my behavior and expectations because of your situation.  For the most part I am prepared to do that.  But what irks me is when there is no give or take on your side.  You (this is the generic "you") act like the entire world should kiss your ass because of your companion's disability.  The writer of the article lambasted the old man who told her he heard her the first time.  Was he to sit there and listen to her preach and whine and prattle, or could he not just tell her to STFU because he got the message she sent?  She wanted the stage in the restaurant, and he denied her.  That's what really ticked her off.  If you need to pack a wheelchair on the bus, just do it as efficiently and quietly as possible.  We all see you.  If your kid is autistic, we may not be able to differentiate between autism and the rest of the undisciplined, obnoxious crotchfruit that populate the planet.  Make a small effort to tone the kid down, rather the acting like he can do what he wants because of his "disability".

My nephew is is wheelchair bound paraplegic.  I enjoy taking him to hockey games.  We arrive early and leave a bit later to avoid the crowds.  I understand that it inconveniences some, but most also understand he needs a bit of space to maneuver.

Everyone needs to lighten up and remember that give and take goes both ways.  The writer of the article appears to be a taker.
2013-03-16 04:27:40 PM
12 votes:
Let me get this straight. He hushed her kid, she told him it wouldn't work because the kid is autistic, he said sorry, she kept talking, he told her he understood her, she got angry.

How is he in the wrong at all here?

If I'm supposed to be understanding to autistic folks, she can try to be understanding of older folks. If she thought that was bad, my blind, decrepit grandfather could have her crying. Toughen up lady - he was short with you, not mean.
2013-03-16 04:25:40 PM
12 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


THIS.

If they can't handle being out in most public places, don't subject others to their actions.

My brother is autistic, and at age 28, he is more obnoxious to deal with than almost any run of the mill 6 year old child in public. What makes it worse is that he refuses to exercise control over the volume of his voice, and constantly makes very disturbing, violent, and sexual comments and actions (although I can assure you he has never gotten laid, at least by a human). Whenever I go to visit my mother, my wife and I pretty much refuse to go out in public with him because of his behavior. What makes it worse is that my mother figured out a long time ago that his disability can be exploited for sympathy from others and government money, so she has done next to nothing to deal with his condition. Due to the circumstances, my wife and I jointly made the decision that our now 8-month old daughter will never be left unsupervised by at least one of us around my mother's house, unless he is institutionalized and away from the home. So, it sucks that she will not get to have the week away with Grandma, but I would not risk my daughter being molested or killed.

Sorry, but "He's autistic, deal with it" will not fly with me.
2013-03-16 12:40:47 PM
12 votes:
This was very good, subby, and you are going to be rewarded in the thread. And you avoided what would have been overkill in selecting the Hero tag, a common rookie mistake. My one suggestion would have been to redirect the apologetic element in the first half of the headline, which diminishes some of the overall punch. Instead of apologizing on behalf of the child, I would have had the woman apologizing for the person being bothered by the child, e.g., "I'm sorry that you are bothered by my autistic child acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it." A minor tweak, to be sure, but it would have upped the rage at least a notch or two.
2013-03-16 01:43:14 PM
10 votes:
With most things in life, I think there is a middle ground. It is important to remember that neither side is not the center of the universe, not just your side. Don't get offended if your disabled child is being noisy, being messy in eating (in action and/or sound) or the like and someone perhaps really just wanting to have a quieter dinner moves to another area of the restaurant. At the same time, one should generally be able to expect that the general public not act like total assholes toward a disabled person.

Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie?  No.
2013-03-16 04:29:21 PM
9 votes:

namegoeshere: So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?


I will tolerate you dealing with it appropriately when it happens. If that means a few stern words at the table, taking the kid outside or even leaving the restaurant with the food to go and beating the little tyke within an inch of their life when you get home. Just don't do nothing and laughingly say that little kyle is being cute when he is actually being a disruptive little monster.

Is that too much to ask?
2013-03-16 01:03:13 PM
9 votes:

Pocket Ninja: This was very good, subby, and you are going to be rewarded in the thread. And you avoided what would have been overkill in selecting the Hero tag, a common rookie mistake. My one suggestion would have been to redirect the apologetic element in the first half of the headline, which diminishes some of the overall punch. Instead of apologizing on behalf of the child, I would have had the woman apologizing for the person being bothered by the child, e.g., "I'm sorry that you are bothered by my autistic child acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it." A minor tweak, to be sure, but it would have upped the rage at least a notch or two.


I disagree. The genius of subby's headline is that it starts out with a parent of an autistic child behaving reasonably for once. You get this false sense of hope, only to have it taken away.
2013-03-16 04:47:32 PM
8 votes:
FTA-

Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

I'm gonna stop you right there and say that taking eight kids out to dinner is a disaster waiting to happen. A disaster for everyone else I mean. You are used to their behavior.


My 14-year-old son, Jonah, who has autism, was very excited about the imminent arrival of his hamburger and french fries,


I see what you did there. You could have just said "food" but describing the food makes it more childish and cute.


so he was acting as he does when he's happy: bouncing in his seat, clapping his hands, and vocalizing a mishmash of squawks and catchphrases from his favorite Sesame Street videos. He wasn't exceedingly loud,

Yes, he was. If it's loud enough to get the attention of others in the restaurant it's exceedingly loud.


but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.


No, it's because he was "exceedingly loud". Quietly bouncing in his seat wouldn't have attracted any attention.


"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.


Good for him! Someone needs to control your kid if you won't. You're inconsiderate of others.


Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah.


OMG! Someone did something politically incorrect in an attempt to get your kid to STFU since you weren't.


"I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.



Nobody cares why he's doing it or if he is "special" or any other reason. Have some consideration for other people and just get him to STFU.


My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.

You know what else is gratuitously nasty and drains the joy out of the evening for everyone who isn't you? That's right, your kid acting out in public.


I spent the rest of the dinner constantly shushing Jonah,


Give that guy a farking medal! He got you to control your child in public like every other considerate parent has had to do since forever. Hallelujah!


even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior.

The time and place are irrelevant. You should be teaching your other kids that being considerate of others is not reserved for only certain times or places. Whether there is one other person or a crowd is also irrelevant. If you think your children sitting quietly is an impossible standard of behavior you are an idiot. You should not take them out again until they are able to behave.

If I'm the only person there even in the middle of my meal I'm calling the waitress to box my food. Then the manager to tell them why I'm leaving.
2013-03-16 04:43:49 PM
8 votes:
My friend's brother-in-law seems to be a high-functioning sociopath- he's very smart (he's an engineer, and he works with my husband at the lab); but he's also extremely moronic when it comes to interacting with people.  He's a leper at work, and while you feel sorry for him, when you meet him, it's VERY hard to like him.  He makes inappropriate comments to my friend (he went into the private room where she was nursing her son and started talking about her breasts the other day), and he charged a lot of porn to the company card and turned in on his statement.  He's a grown man, and has no friends and can't get a girlfriend.  It really is sad...but no one can stand to be around him.  However, his mother still babies him and begs everyone to spend time with him.

It's a sad reality, but people who don't function well in our society are going to be outcasts...and society won't change for them.  It's hard to be friends with someone who doesn't understand boundaries.  As a mother, I completely understand wanting people to like your child and being heartbroken when they don't...but as a member of society, it's impossible to welcome everyone in when they are so difficult to deal with.  It's a very thin line, and there's not a lot of help for people who have to walk it.
2013-03-16 04:41:25 PM
8 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.



I really get annoyed at people with a "Visible Disability" think they are more deserving of help and basic compassion then someone with a non-visible disability

if i say i cant do something because this is a my leg/knee is hurting a lot that day, i get "O you have a bad limp sorry"

if i say i cant doing something because my anxiety is currently at 11 and it is taken every fiber of my being to not shut down, i get told "Suck it up"
2013-03-16 04:32:17 PM
8 votes:
He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?
2013-03-16 04:17:47 PM
8 votes:

jaylectricity: even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night

Thursday is only a hair better than Friday, and 6pm is the exact time when everybody is there to eat.

Tuesday at 5 would be much better.


Yep. 6-8 pm is prime time seating in many restaurants. Go there early or go there late on Wed - Sun if you have a kid that you know can't control themselves. I shouldn't have to put up with your kids issues. You're the one who decided to have a kid and you lost the crap shoot on making a good one, them's the risks that you undertook and you have to pay the price when you lose. Not me.
2013-03-16 04:37:07 PM
7 votes:

ReverendJynxed: Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.


Let me start by saying that I'm not a cripple and, no matter what my brother calls me, not mentally retarded. So this is based on people I've known.

But there is a difference in the two. Someone who needs a cane or a wheelchair and can take care of themselves is flat out different than an adult who needs a caretaker. They aren't worth more as people, but it is different. And when you start saying everyone with some sort of disability is the same, you're implicitly telling some people (who work hard to stay independent) that they need to be taken care of, which is a reasonable reason to be insulted.
2013-03-16 04:35:22 PM
7 votes:

Deece: Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.


I'm pretty sure "old guy" was embarrassed too. If you somehow missed the fact a kid was confined to a wheelchair (perhaps because he's seated at a table and his wheelchair is obscured from your vantage point) and asked them to stand up, and the mother pipes up to say "um, my son is a paraplegic", you'd be instantly redfaced and probably wouldn't be terribly amused to hear her follow up with  "...which means he has no use of legs, etc" in front of everyone. You'd feel like such a goddamn ass after the first gutpunch you don't want to hear anything else.

Not so much condoning it as thinking his reaction is somewhat normal.
2013-03-16 05:30:39 PM
6 votes:
People at restaurants who are more annoying, distracting, and difficult to eat around than autistic children:

-People with poor hygiene (noticeable dandruff, offensive body odor, flip flops and tank tops, bad acne)
-Obese people (i'd rather watch a dog taking a shiat than a fat person shove his face while I'm eating)
-Old people with no manners who think it's okay to be rude to anyone born after 1950 (like the guy referenced at the beginning)
-Women who dress in clothing that is WAY more revealing than it needs to be (boobs falling out, 9 inch skirts, usually older women past their prime)
-Drunk people (laugh way too loud, yell way too loud, curse inappropriately, try to socialize with strangers trying to eat)

Kids will be kids.  Those with special needs often don't know any better.  It's not like parents are encouraging disruptive behavior; usually they are doing their best to control it. Disruptive children are low on the totem pole of restaurant patrons who are difficult to be around.  I don't understand what people have against kids that they DON'T have against the loud drunk cursing at the television.  It's peculiar how people can laugh-off or excuse public drunkenness, poor hygiene in public, and obnoxiously rude behavior, but get upset when children make a bit of noise.
2013-03-16 05:13:14 PM
6 votes:

BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.


This.  And that.

"Special needs".  "Mainstreaming".  "Here's how you deal with it".

No, here's how YOU deal with it.  Your kid is retarded.  They should be riding the short bus.  You know, to the school with all the other retarded kids so the normal kids can at least attempt to learn something without your kid being a drag on their education.  Face it: you don't get to live a "normal" life, regardless of how much you shake your fist at the sky shouting "I deserve it!"  You, like your kid, must live a life defined by their needs, and it is unreasonable to force society to live by the same definition.  Being "edgy" or "avant garde" by thinking your kid deserves to experience public places (public be damned) makes you an asshole, not a champion.  If your kid can't/won't behave in public, you shouldn't take them out in public.  When they disrupt others, expect the looks/comments, because there's always some other asshole who'll make them.

If your first kid was retarded, why the fark did you keep popping them out?

Living in denial of your genetic disaster and expecting society to sympathize and accomodate your plight is yet another symptom of today's "me" generation.  Back in the day, little Johnny would stay home.  Society doesn't owe you anything, and CERTAINLY didn't do this to you.  Fark off.
2013-03-16 04:48:18 PM
6 votes:

basemetal: Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.

So true.

/have the 5 and 7 yo niece and nephew this weekend
//took them out to eat and they marveled me with their appropriate behavior
///I'll have to give the brother in law and his wife some credit when we transfer them tomorrow
////I hope they had a good break
///reaffirmed that I did not belong having kids though
//although a night of watching Adventure Time was fun


/
Finished the damn slashie pyramid for you...

I used to work with mentally challenged individuals and did so for 7 years.
They were either the most medically fragile or the people with the worst behavioral issues.
I see both sides of this issue in a very personal way. They do the the right to go in public. however with that right comes certain responsibilities.
They had to act appropriately.
Part of my job was to assist them with maintaining the correct social expectations when out to dinner or a movie.
If they couldn't act appropriately we would remove them from the situation.
They don't have the right to ruin every one else's evening.
Most of the time the evening out was pleasant and enjoyable for all.
With privileges and rights come responsibility. I don't know why this generation seems to have never learned this.
2013-03-16 04:43:05 PM
6 votes:
What is the big deal if he never gets to eat out at a restaurant or go to a movie? Have a nice family dinner at home and watch Netflix. It's not so terrible.
2013-03-16 04:34:46 PM
6 votes:
I didn't take my kids to restaurants 1) until they were old enough to know how to behave and 2) unless they were well rested. I didn't impose on the global village to help socialize my child in a place where people go to relax and unwind.

The thought of actors screwing with patrons to prove some point is the height of DB'ery.  Let's all cheer for ourselves, we're all so special.
2013-03-16 04:25:59 PM
6 votes:

Deece: Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.


How much do you want to bet that her description of the events are a bit tilted in her favor? Perhaps even missing information or possibly understating her kids actions and\or overstating the other patrons actions.
2013-03-16 04:25:07 PM
6 votes:

Deece: miniflea: Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?

Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.


She was repeating herself. I would be like Ok get out of my face. Especially because 2 adults with 8 kids is ASININE.
2013-03-16 04:10:27 PM
6 votes:
kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?
2013-03-16 03:30:21 PM
6 votes:

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


I got one warning, then I got hauled to the bathroom and got a firm spanking. One memorable time, the restaurant applauded as I and a friend were hauled away to our fates (it struck home...i never misbehaved in public again). 

I'm pretty sure any parents who did that today would have CPS called on them. I'm not advocating one way or the other, just noting that times, and perspectives, change.
2013-03-16 04:51:40 PM
5 votes:
When the guy apologized she should have left it at that instead of trying to explain even more, just say thanks and go back to the table.  I like it that she is openly upset, hence the word-rage article, yet isn't smart enough to see her own shortcomings.  It's a clear demonstration of what a hypocritical coont she is.  She's no different than the guy who told her to stuff it, only less aggressive about it.  They both got upset when the other party didn't stop yaking.  She did make the first mistake, however, ergo coont status.

Having said that.  If the behavior can get sane people arrested for things like public indecency, public intoxication, public disturbance, etc, that same allotted behavior should not have general exceptions because people are mentally challenged.

Yeah, don't arrest them, fine the legal guardians.  The rules are there for a purpose, no one is exempt.  Do not do X in public.  This goes for everyone.  If you are a caretaker, you are legally responsible for your ward's activities.

Having a mental condition does not grant the poor soul extra privilege, nor does it grant extra privilege to the caretaker.  We shouldn't allow people to do as they will against public law because we pity them or their circumstances.

It's not that they don't deserve the chance of exposure, everyone deserves the chance at complete freedom.  It is when people learn that they cannot handle the responsibility that come with such things, that those freedoms are removed.  Hence prisons and mental hospitals.

Guns are a freedom as well, except to those that cannot handle the freedom responsibly.  These people are disallowed from owning and using such things, motor vehicles are the same way, when people prove themselves to be incapable.

I do pity people with such kids, kids that have proven to be similarly incapable at such a young age.  But face facts.  "We" are not under responsibility to be charitable, that is what taxes are.  We've given our share to take care of your tax break(our only obligation to your prized snowflake).  Everything else is directly on you.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, much as your offspring cannot, then you are in it deep, and maybe, just maybe, you should attempt to rectify or avoid situations where you are incapable of performing responsibly...
2013-03-16 04:50:55 PM
5 votes:
I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.
2013-03-16 04:48:40 PM
5 votes:
Cup of Joe

#1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.


So autistic people don't have any impairments? That's news to me.

And why is it degrading to be placed under the same umbrella as the mentally disabled? Both of you need certain accommodations and both are entitled to the same legal protections.

And furthermore, not all autistic people are mentally retarded.

I may be crazy but

Someone who needs a cane or a wheelchair and can take care of themselves is flat out different than an adult who needs a caretaker.

Some physically disabled people need caretakers. Some mentally disabled people don't need caretakers and work hard to stay independent.
2013-03-16 04:43:25 PM
5 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: Deece: miniflea: Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?

Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.

She was repeating herself. I would be like Ok get out of my face. Especially because 2 adults with 8 kids is ASININE.


That's what I was thinking.  I've seen my in-laws struggle with their four when it's both of them together.  I can't imagine handling 8 kids with 2 adults, especially when one of them is prone to loud outbursts.  That's just dumb.
2013-03-16 04:23:34 PM
5 votes:

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


I don't think those with physical disabilities are the problem. (very sorry about your son, by the way)

It just seems like these days, almost every family has a kid with some kind of mental or behavioral issue. Right or wrong, sometimes others just get sick of hearing about it. While I'm sure most of these kids really have some issues, I think some of these "conditions of the day" get over diagnosed and so the ones who genuinely have them get lumped in with the ones who really just need some competent parenting.
2013-03-16 04:21:35 PM
5 votes:

The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!


As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.
2013-03-16 04:16:58 PM
5 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.


To who?
2013-03-16 02:57:00 PM
5 votes:
The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.
2013-03-16 01:33:22 PM
5 votes:

Pud: I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it

With me it was my mother. She had the odasity to get polio when she was 9. Selfish biatch (yea, that was sarcasm in case you missed it). I often got in "trouble" over the way I tended to deal with the comments (or looks).
Sometimes you are NOT the center of the world, and it isn't all that big a thing to just let another pass by.

/But that's just my opinion.


"Audacity."
2013-03-16 01:05:14 PM
5 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it
2013-03-16 06:55:58 PM
4 votes:

bborchar: My friend's brother-in-law seems to be a high-functioning sociopath- he's very smart (he's an engineer, and he works with my husband at the lab); but he's also extremely moronic when it comes to interacting with people.  He's a leper at work, and while you feel sorry for him, when you meet him, it's VERY hard to like him.  He makes inappropriate comments to my friend (he went into the private room where she was nursing her son and started talking about her breasts the other day), and he charged a lot of porn to the company card and turned in on his statement.  He's a grown man, and has no friends and can't get a girlfriend.  It really is sad...but no one can stand to be around him.  However, his mother still babies him and begs everyone to spend time with him.

It's a sad reality, but people who don't function well in our society are going to be outcasts...and society won't change for them.  It's hard to be friends with someone who doesn't understand boundaries.  As a mother, I completely understand wanting people to like your child and being heartbroken when they don't...but as a member of society, it's impossible to welcome everyone in when they are so difficult to deal with.  It's a very thin line, and there's not a lot of help for people who have to walk it.


I might be wrong, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he isn't a sociopath.  Sociopaths can often have friends and be quite well liked because they are experts at hiding their true nature.  Equally they can often be successful with women.  And they don't usually make outrageous, socially inappropriate comments unless provoked because they are trying to blend in.  It's kind of like being very different and not feeling like you fit in at all but being hyper aware of this so that you are able to 'fake it' to seem normal.

I suspect that there is something wrong with him.  And I certainly agree that, as you say, sometimes people are not going to fit in, not because of their handicap but because of the way they are.  In my experience, the biggest factor is aggression   No matter the handicap, if a person isn't particularly aggressive then most people with show them a great deal of patience.  If the person is very aggressive then the tolerance from others drops rapidly.
2013-03-16 06:19:54 PM
4 votes:
Years ago I was at a fast food joint, enjoying my meal with my family when a bus pulled up from the state school (you know, that place where the mentally handicapped are basically locked away, and from the stories that I've heard, for everyone's own good).  I lost my appetite upon seeing them.  The one that caused me to instantly stop eating and leave was seeing a man who could not control his own drool and hand to constantly carry around a rag with him and leave his own tongue hanging out because of the constant drool.  Sickening to see any time, worse in a restaurant.  And, call me an asshole, but there are people who I honestly don't believe should be in public.

As for this mother, I learned in college that 10 adults sitting in a booth in a restaurant having dinner before hitting the bars is loud enough, is messy enough.  Making it two adults and eight children has to be hell on not just those around you, but also for the waitstaff.  Were the two mothers in TFA too good for McDonalds or Burger King?  You know, a place where kids aren't confined to a table and have a playground that they can go run around and play in?  Lady, you take your friend and combined eight kids to a place that has a waitstaff that brings you food, that already means that there are standards to which everyone obeys (tipping, not slapping the hot waitress on the ass as the delivers your drinks, please and thank you), and somehow you're taking these standards that are accepted by everyone, even children and calling them impossible standards.  How is keeping a low tone of voice an impossible standard?  Do you take your son to the library and then biatch at everyone around you when they ask you to be quiet?  If your son can't keep quiet in the movie theater, don't take him.  When I go to the movies I pay my money to see and listen to the movie, not to see the movie and hear a mixture of the movie and your son's noises.  But I'm sure you have your soap box ready to tell me how I need to understand that your son as every right to not just see that movie but also ruin the experience for everyone else by telling me that it's an impossible standard for any child to keep their pie hole shut.  Lady, if it really is impossible for you to do so, please, leave the brats at home.

Look, I have no children.  I'm 34 years old and married.  My wife and I can not have children (she has medical problems preventing it).  But incredibly, our lives are effected by children.  I live in the middle of a long row of apartment complexes.  I have to time my departure perfectly in the mornings because if I don't, I'm going to get caught behind school buses that must stop at each and every apartment building.  Even though the children don't cross the street, I'm not allowed to go around the school bus.  I've had multiple jobs where I had surprise over time because the job had to be done, but my coworker couldn't come in because of their kid (sick, injured, no sitter).  Worse was when I was a security guard.  On weekends there was only the need for one of use to be there at a time, but we couldn't leave until we had our relief.  My relief was a single mother who couldn't get her shiat together.  So I ended up working 20 hour shifts, and when things happened, who's ass was on the line?  Mine because I was the guy on duty and explaining that I worked a 20 hour shift, got four hours to go home, sleep, shower, shave, dress and return to work isn't an explanation, it's an excuse.  Being in public is just as bad.  When I was a kid I was told not to eavesdrop or listen to other conversations.  And in stores, I don't want to listen to your kids scream.  I know they want that toy and you told them no so now they're screaming and crying and making a scene.  Please deal with it.  Don't look at us like we're the bad guys.  We're not, we're victims of noise pollution that you created, and worse yet, we can't get away from it.  I can try going to the store while school's in session, but there's kids in the stores then.  At night, after 10 pm, amazingly, there are kids there as well.  How?  I don't farking know.  It makes me think little of you as a parent when I'm grocery shopping at 10pm on a Wednesday and you're there also with your school age kids.

ending rant...
2013-03-16 05:41:39 PM
4 votes:
The problem seems to be that some parents desperately want their developmentally-challenged kids to be "normal" in the worst possible way. So they attempt to "socialize" them at every opportunity.

The problem is that these social situations the kids are dragged to are extremely uncomfortable for them to deal with  - think of the most boring things you have had to deal with, but, of course you have the self-control NOT to let it be known. (E.g. a Catholic Wedding with the high mass included - you have to be polite to those who invited you, but, damn! it's BORING and goes on-and-on!)

However, some of these poor kids look at these social engagements as pure torture. They just want to be left in their own little world, in their own thoughts, repetitively playing with their simple toys, but they have to be made to sit still, be quiet and go along with everyone else.  And they will act out.

And forcing them into these situations to make mommy think they are normal won't teach them anything and is just plain cruel.
2013-03-16 05:05:14 PM
4 votes:

PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.


Our local theatre has started introducing special showings for the "differently abled."  They keep the house lights up a little more and the sound down a little bit, while also allowing kids to move around and make noise.  They've apparently gotten good feedback.

http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/14/2556527/warren-to-screen-movie-for- ki ds.html
2013-03-16 04:50:55 PM
4 votes:
Actually I've found that helicopter parents of autists are usually much more disruptive and annoying then their children. Well, not counting when the autist flies into a violent rage.
2013-03-16 04:18:42 PM
4 votes:

WorldCitizen: Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie? No.


Two solutions: 1) drive-in. 2) find a free family movie festival. They're full of kids, and kind of noisy, which is expected. And it's much easier to be tolerant of off behavior when it's a free second-run movie than a movie that you paid for and only just recently found time to go see.
2013-03-16 03:02:42 PM
4 votes:
even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night

Thursday is only a hair better than Friday, and 6pm is the exact time when everybody is there to eat.

Tuesday at 5 would be much better.
2013-03-17 11:12:33 AM
3 votes:
"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>
2013-03-17 04:01:48 AM
3 votes:

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


Is it too late to SIDS the little bastard?  Get a babysitter if you want to go eat, or eat out at dennys, you self righteous pool of defective chromosomes.
2013-03-17 03:50:54 AM
3 votes:

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


Sure, so why not punish the rest of society for your defective genes.
2013-03-16 07:24:36 PM
3 votes:
"My son is autistic ... "
"Oh, sorry," he said.


At this point you have made your point. The other diner has accepted the reason for the child being noisy

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

You followed up without noticing that your "opponent" had conceded

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

He's irritated with your follow up not your kid. Read the conversation better next time it was not about your child it was you.
2013-03-16 06:46:15 PM
3 votes:
True story- Our family with three kids was out a few years ago at restaurant, and across the aisle was another family, a mom with two kids. Those kids were all over the place, visiting other people's, crawling under them, screaming, squealing, shrieking, trying to trip the waitress, etc. Everyone knew those kids names because mom never bothered to get up and address the issues, she wanted to have grown up talk with her sister, so of course would stop every other sentence to repeat any or all of the kids names.

In the meantime, we picked our food. Dinner came and we ate our dinner. Made small talk, etc. Kids stayed in their seats, no screaming. You get the idea. This isn't to brag, I think it was just a lucky night for us. Anyhow we get the check and pay, and on the way out an old man, Marlon Brando Godfather looking literally grabs my arm from his table and pulls me toward him with an iron grip on my coat, surrounded by a few son looking types, temporarily worrying my husband. The old man whispered in my ear "Now you, YOU have nice behaved children". I thanked him and nodded to my husband all was okay.

What I didn't say was that two of my kids are high functioning autistics. Those other kids, though one could not be sure, were just under disciplined and their mom seemed to think she was entitled to her time. My kids have and occasionally still do act out with the right triggers, but as their mom, I don't expect the public to deal with it. One of us will take the kid outside, take a walk with them or a quick drive in the car. One can't predict all sudden panics, but we can at least know when situations are ripe to look for a better outlet. We do drive ins for movies and the occasional Mom's Movietime bit- where the lights are still on, volume is softer, babies are crying, and everyone is used to kids running about. We plan things out and talk about them with the kids, and our expectations of them so that there are no surprises as much as possible.

Not sure where I was going with this. Basically, that I can't just keep my kids at home all the time for the sake of other people being afraid they cannot have a good time. I also know that many kids who are 'neurotypical' are worse in public. Not all, just the ones where the parent or parents needs to socialize overtake the times where they need to be on the job teaching kids how to behave. It's less often that a parent of a special needs kid can honestly mentally clock out for a long period of time, whereas maybe the parents of non diagnosed with anything believe that their kids can raise themselves and learn manners on their own?

/kids are like little Star Trek Vulcans
//except the one who is not affected with Autism. That one wants to be Cinderella.
///All the bases covered?
2013-03-16 06:24:54 PM
3 votes:
A complete lack of corporal punishment for an entire generation has resulted in a society that can't say no to anybody.  Kid wants to act out?  Go ahead!  Want to talk in a movie?  Sure!  Cell phone in church?  Why not?

What's missing is that people who are parents now weren't beaten enough as kids, so they think it's normal to give a child whatever he/she wants the second it is demanded.  Notice how the woman in the article describes her son: "He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour. "

Translation:  He was making enough noise to wake up Bonnie Franklin.  What that woman considers "exceeding" is levels above what normal people consider exceeding.  But she's so wrapped up in herself she doesn't realize it.  She's looking at her son and saying "well, he's not biting people" and thinking he's behaving.  Everyone else is looking at her son and saying "that kid sounds like two elephants farking on top of a dying giraffe."
2013-03-16 05:28:03 PM
3 votes:

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.
2013-03-16 05:23:15 PM
3 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.


Radioactive Ass: jaylectricity: even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night

Thursday is only a hair better than Friday, and 6pm is the exact time when everybody is there to eat.

Tuesday at 5 would be much better.

Yep. 6-8 pm is prime time seating in many restaurants. Go there early or go there late on Wed - Sun if you have a kid that you know can't control themselves. I shouldn't have to put up with your kids issues. You're the one who decided to have a kid and you lost the crap shoot on making a good one, them's the risks that you undertook and you have to pay the price when you lose. Not me.


All of these. It isn't up to the rest of the restaurant staff/customers to shut up and listen to your kid screaming because your lazy ass uses his autism as an excuse to not be a competent parent. If he CAN'T be silenced enough to go to a restaurant, then that sucks for you. I can't imagine having the balls to be in a business like that and ruin the experience for everyone else around me.
2013-03-16 05:18:40 PM
3 votes:
Unfortunately, this family sounds like my neighbors who think their kids are just fine with their 'cute' ways.  Cute, like obsession with fire, small animal irritation, loud, repetitive vocalizations, etc.  Ten years from now, the mom in the article will be asking herself and neighbors, "Why is everyone telling the police these terrible things about Johnny?  He's a nice boy that just got carried away with that hatchet.  Why didn't they ever come to me, instead of calling the cops?"
2013-03-16 05:11:31 PM
3 votes:
While you may get some accommodations and leeway for having such disorders, yeah, you don't get a free pass.  The article actually highlighted to me that the parents of the child/teen with autism need to do a little work because they no longer recognize what is acceptable behavior in social settings.  Instead, they should have already had a plan on what to do if their child gets a little loud, just because THEY are used to it doesn't mean its socially acceptable.
2013-03-16 04:54:25 PM
3 votes:

thatboyoverthere: lucksi: BTW, can you test for autism before the kid is born?

Nope. It's a developmental disorder. While there is genetic inheritance and it does run in family there is no Autistic Gene.
/A recent therory states that the problem is that the kid is too hypersensitive and is unable to block out sensory data at a young age and this causes their problems as they are dealing with sensory overload when they should be developing normally.


The general consensus is that autism is innate - autistics are born that way though no one knows what causes their brain to develop abnormally or when it starts. Given that there is presently hardly any way to tell which newborns will go on to display autistic symptoms, prenatal tests are completely unavailable.

Maybe with a better understanding of autism (there is some evidence it involves having too many neurons) then techniques involving brain scanning might develop. Of course it would be best to test if whatever causes autism might be present but that is unknown now.
2013-03-16 04:51:59 PM
3 votes:

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Your friends inability to walk is in no way similar to an autistic child's inability to function in a social setting.
2013-03-16 04:49:22 PM
3 votes:

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Way to miss the point.  No one is complaining that they had to move so that a wheelchair could fit around a table, or had to be strapped down before the bus moves.  As a disabled person (wheelchair- 15 years and counting) I try my best not to inconvenience other people, like any normal member of a civilized society.  The reality is, being disabled, there are certain things you aren't ABLE to do.  It sucks balls, but you adapt, and find alternatives.  I've lived my life fine for 15+ years never climbing a step.  Ramps and elevators help, but if they aren't available, I go somewhere else.  If someone can't behave in an appropriate manner, go somewhere else.  Life isn't fair, deal with it.  I do.

/Your friend is not relevant to this situation
//I'm sure she appreciates you talking about her though
///how long till these little farkers are taking my parking space?
2013-03-16 04:47:54 PM
3 votes:

I May Be Crazy But...: ReverendJynxed: Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.

Let me start by saying that I'm not a cripple and, no matter what my brother calls me, not mentally retarded. So this is based on people I've known.

But there is a difference in the two. Someone who needs a cane or a wheelchair and can take care of themselves is flat out different than an adult who needs a caretaker. They aren't worth more as people, but it is different. And when you start saying everyone with some sort of disability is the same, you're implicitly telling some people (who work hard to stay independent) that they need to be taken care of, which is a reasonable reason to be insulted.


And you miss the point.

I'm not saying the disabilities aren't different. I'm merely calling the assholes on their belief they are somehow superior to these other individuals. Yes the problems are handled differently.

It is insulting to all when someone tries to claim superiority of another based on their level of disability. I never claimed they all needed to be taken care of the same way either, just treated the same with the same level of dignity and respect any one of these super-abled asshats demand. See the difference?
2013-03-16 04:41:48 PM
3 votes:
This autism spectrum gets wider and wider every day.
2013-03-16 04:41:38 PM
3 votes:

ThatGuyGreg: Oh good, this thread again.

I still get a kick not my not autistic but still developmentally disabled 3 year old daughter behaves 1000x better than "normal" kids twice her age when we're out in public.

/she saves her meltdowns for home


Heh, our 2.5 year old has her daycare person convinced she is perfect.  She wonders why we sometimes ask, "how did she behave today?"  It's because she saves it all up for home!  Finally, she acted out at daycare, and she said, "I think I understand why you ask the things you do, now."

In the end, it is because they know their parents and it is "safe" to let it loose.
2013-03-16 04:41:02 PM
3 votes:

I May Be Crazy But...: Let me get this straight. He hushed her kid, she told him it wouldn't work because the kid is autistic, he said sorry, she kept talking, he told her he understood her, she got angry.

How is he in the wrong at all here?

If I'm supposed to be understanding to autistic folks, she can try to be understanding of older folks. If she thought that was bad, my blind, decrepit grandfather could have her crying. Toughen up lady - he was short with you, not mean.


Perhaps her son's lack of social skills isn't solely caused by his autism.
2013-03-16 04:39:18 PM
3 votes:

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


It's not just you.
2013-03-16 04:22:30 PM
3 votes:

tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?


Come on, that's really wrong and offensive.

It's "To whom?"
2013-03-16 04:13:20 PM
3 votes:
I stopped at the picture of the kid.
Why did they use a pic of a kid with Down's syndrome?

Oh that's right, because Autistic kids look "normal".

//usually
2013-03-16 04:08:50 PM
3 votes:

L.D. Ablo: The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.


Translated. "I have no idea how psychology works and get outraged when people try to correct me. Also I'm just as big of an asshole as think others are."
2013-03-16 12:54:58 PM
3 votes:

kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.


This!
2013-03-17 11:28:38 AM
2 votes:

WTFdoesitmatter: chrylis: Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads. There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.

The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.


Do you have any sort of evidence to support this conspiracy theory of yours?
2013-03-17 08:27:37 AM
2 votes:

orbister: dready zim: I don`t want kids running around shouting and playing videos loudly when I pay for a relaxing meal

Well, they don't want to behave as if they're in church when they go out for a lively sociable meal just because you want the silence of the crypt while eating. So explain, will you, why your demands trump theirs? Your answer should include the phrase "my monstrous sense of entitlement".


It all comes down to established codes of conduct at the place you go to.  If it was chuck-e-cheeze's, the guy's an asshat for criticizing childish behavior.  If it was a nice quiet restaurant, TFA is the asshat for bringing in a 14 year old human noisemaker.  There's a lot of gray area between, and TFA only describes it as a "casual restaurant", which is somewhat nebulous.  There's plenty of places that I would describe as "casual", but still expect some goddamned peace and quiet during my dinner.

The fact that TFA sided with the Whole Foods leash lady is what dashes her credibility in my mind though.  Your kid gets caught stealing (and it's your fault for not keeping an eye on him), and you'd rather make yourself the victim?  Yeah, that's silly.  TFA has established herself as someone who agrees with that mentality, so I can't rule out the possibility of her adhering to it here.
2013-03-17 07:36:00 AM
2 votes:

vice_magnet: I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him


I absolutely love the cognitive dissonance of someone who will knowingly and willingly ruin an entire theater full of people's evenings, then call them entitled for getting upset about it.
All because "you deal with it 24/7"?  If your kid is such a burden, put him in a home or something instead of just trying to include other people in that burden.
2013-03-17 07:17:48 AM
2 votes:
My older brother is mentally disabled, can't talk, physically he's okay except for the side effects from the bucket of drugs he's taken every day since he was 3(he's 35 now). He screams and hits himself sometimes when he's uncomfortable or distressed and has OCD when it comes to small things and doors.

Every week I take him to his local pub and we have dinner. He's acted up ONCE in four years(started hitting himself and yelling) and when that happened I took him outside, put him in my car, went back to explain to the staff what happened, apologised and then left. The staff at the pub know us so it wasn't a problem. In four years he's been a problem one time. I put it down to three things:
One, we drug him to the gills so he's less aggressive, people who don't drug their children but say they're mentally disabled and problematic in public are farking idiots. Finding the right balance is difficult I admit and over time the dosages need to rise which is risky, but if they aren't likely to ever have a kid of their own then drug them up.
Two, because I'm family, unlike some of his other carers, I can get a lot more aggressive with him when he does act out, shouting and yelling etc(not in the pub itself on that one time but on the drive home). When he has struck me(I'd say hit but I'd be filtered) a few times I've screamed back at him loud enough for him to really consider never doing that again. He hit me while I was driving once so I pulled over and just screamed at him for three minutes. He's crazy good behaved when I and/or my dad are around(I'm pretty sure my dad belted him something fierce one night or at least screamed at him a hell of a lot when he was around 17 after he beat the crap out of our younger brother (then 12)) and has made being behaved part of his being in public routine as a result. This has made it easier for his other carers as well.
Three, I always seat him between the wall and myself, there is nowhere for him to go and nothing for him to latch onto, the staff there give us the same booth every week without fail. If he looks likely to act up I'm ready to go, I don't care about the meal, the people still there or anything, I'm out the door and he knows it.

The mentally disabled can be a handful, but if you are really really firm and stubborn with them you can usually make them change enough to behave in public. They might not understand why they need to behave but they'll behave.
I've met some other mentally disabled people and their ability to behave in public is usually related to the quality of their care, parents who tried to let them have whatever they wanted have terrible difficulty controlling their kids and as they get older it only gets worse.
Some people might read this and think I'm a bad brother, but I've been looking after him for five years, in that time I've had to yell at him maybe three-four times and been headbutted once, kicked four times and he tried to bite me several times. I love my brother, but I'm not treading on eggshells around him.
2013-03-17 06:04:53 AM
2 votes:
"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.
Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "
"Oh, sorry," he said.
"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "
"I heard you the first time," he snapped, "you`ve pulled the disability card so I just have to listen to flippy there ruin my evening and shut up or have you write an article about me on the internet and how terrible I am"
2013-03-17 01:34:24 AM
2 votes:

Hallows_Eve: True story- Our family with three kids was out a few years ago at restaurant, and across the aisle was another family, a mom with two kids. Those kids were all over the place, visiting other people's, crawling under them, screaming, squealing, shrieking, trying to trip the waitress, etc. Everyone knew those kids names because mom never bothered to get up and address the issues, she wanted to have grown up talk with her sister, so of course would stop every other sentence to repeat any or all of the kids names.

In the meantime, we picked our food. Dinner came and we ate our dinner. Made small talk, etc. Kids stayed in their seats, no screaming. You get the idea. This isn't to brag, I think it was just a lucky night for us. Anyhow we get the check and pay, and on the way out an old man, Marlon Brando Godfather looking literally grabs my arm from his table and pulls me toward him with an iron grip on my coat, surrounded by a few son looking types, temporarily worrying my husband. The old man whispered in my ear "Now you, YOU have nice behaved children". I thanked him and nodded to my husband all was okay.

What I didn't say was that two of my kids are high functioning autistics. Those other kids, though one could not be sure, were just under disciplined and their mom seemed to think she was entitled to her time. My kids have and occasionally still do act out with the right triggers, but as their mom, I don't expect the public to deal with it. One of us will take the kid outside, take a walk with them or a quick drive in the car. One can't predict all sudden panics, but we can at least know when situations are ripe to look for a better outlet. We do drive ins for movies and the occasional Mom's Movietime bit- where the lights are still on, volume is softer, babies are crying, and everyone is used to kids running about. We plan things out and talk about them with the kids, and our expectations of them so that there are no surprises as much as possible.

Not sure where I ...


This.

Autistic kids are not that hard to train. Neither are Down's kids, and neither are neurotypical 'normal' ones. But you do have to train them, just like you'd train a dog, and for much the same reasons. If I let a dog run over God's creation, peeing on everything and barking, growling and snapping at people, sooner or later somebody would shoot the dog or lock it up on Death Row at the shelter. In many states, we do the same with humans who were not trained to live in society. The primary difference is that the dogs in the shelter rape each other less.

If you have a kid and you love them, train them how to behave in society. If you do not know how, buy a book on dog training and skip the leash and collar-related bits. Really. That works on kids. It doesn't have to be fancy, eighth-level Miss Manners stuff, just 'inside voices' and 'stay close to your parent' covers 80% of it.
2013-03-16 11:38:11 PM
2 votes:

WanPhat: Kids makes noise.
Guy says "shhh"
Dad says he's autistic.
Shhh guy says he's sorry.

Story over, we're all cool, right?

How does this result in full-length story and a 7 page thread?


Well first, it was a mom, not a dad, but second, we end up with a seven page thread because the mom is apparently also autistic and couldn't just accept the old man's apology and return to her dinner.  She was winding up a lecture and the old man cut her off, ruining her evening because she didn't get to give the old man an earful of how important and special her child is.

The entire article boils down to the author being a grade-a biatch because she wasn't allowed to lecture a man who had already apologized.  Also, reading between the lines, her child was misbehaving badly enough to affect other diners, but since it wasn't, in her opinion, excessive, she didn't think it was an issue.  It's possible she was correct, but considering the old man apologized readily once learning the child was autistic, I'm going to make the educated guess that the kid was being a complete ass and the mom was not at all dealing with it, and now is writing an article simply to make herself feel better.

Again, not sure the autism apple fell far from the tree there.
2013-03-16 11:34:00 PM
2 votes:
I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.
2013-03-16 11:12:23 PM
2 votes:
BRB- going to kiss my birth control pills that allow me to not have children.
2013-03-16 09:53:31 PM
2 votes:

Radioactive Ass: Yep. 6-8 pm is prime time seating in many restaurants. Go there early or go there late on Wed - Sun if you have a kid that you know can't control themselves. I shouldn't have to put up with your kids issues. You're the one who decided to have a kid and you lost the crap shoot on making a good one, them's the risks that you undertook and you have to pay the price when you lose. Not me.


Are you implying that autism = not a good one?

My son has mild autism (yup, real autism, not self-diagnosed Asperger's).  When he was disruptive in restaurants, his mom or I would remove him and the other would get the to-go boxes and the check.  If he was disruptive in a movie theater, one of us took him outside.  He doesn't do that any more.  We parented, he made the connection between behavior and undesirable consequences, presto.

He's 18 now, and is doing well despite a few social blind spots and problems with executive function.  He's working hard on those.  He's a kind and decent human being.

/tl;dr version:  Fark you, I won the crap shoot on making a good kid.
2013-03-16 09:22:01 PM
2 votes:

Frederick: Although not all the information is in the article, a hamburger and fries are mentioned and I'll infer from that a fast food place. Also early morning is mentioned along with very few patrons.


You didn't read the article at all, did you?
2013-03-16 08:43:50 PM
2 votes:

Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: except in the restaurant i can tell you to shut the hell up because your kid is obnoxious.

LOL hell, you can do that on a sidewalk! Disturbing the Peace happens everywhere!


I think the difference is that a restaurant is somewhere that other people have paid for dinner, and have a reasonable expectation of civility. A parent whose child is yelling and generally causing a distraction has a social obligation to remove that child from the restaurant.

This is different from the sidewalk, where other people can just walk away from the situation, without losing any money for their meal/time/babysitter, etc.
2013-03-16 08:41:22 PM
2 votes:
I got a kick out of this thread because my autistic kid is generally well behaved in restaurants and we try to avoid sitting near large boisterous tables of adults because they annoy me.
2013-03-16 08:31:25 PM
2 votes:
My son is autistic. With very intensive therapy, he's come a very long way. Even then, he has his moments. If it's something 'optional' like eating out, or an event of some sort, or something I can do later, we just leave.

Sometimes, though, I can't just do it later. My husband is only home for two weeks every two months, so I can't send someone else to do things most of the time. I make every effort I can to keep him from bothering others, which is usually inconvenient for me, but kids aren't supposed to be convenient so that just goes with the territory. Sometimes there is absolutely nothing I can do in that moment to stop the meltdown, though, and leaving isn't an option, like when we're at the clinic because my youngest has another ear infection.

It's in those moments when understanding is most appreciated. Fortunately, we have often been on the receiving end of incredible kindness. There have been many little moments of generosity that make it clear that the assholes are the minority, like the pharmacist who knows us and will let us wait in the consult room if it's crowded, or the many kind people who have let us ahead in line at busy stores when making essential purchases that can't wait for a good day.

Hallows_Eve: /kids are like little Star Trek Vulcans


I often say the same thing about my son. Logical to a fault, that one.


2013-03-16 08:28:18 PM
2 votes:
There's a hell of a spectrum here.

On one end is a patient I saw at my clinic last week. Autistic, essentially nonverbal. During the exam, he was crawling around on the floor, spitting and slapping his caregiver, and hooting like a loon. Those level of autistic people will never live anything you or I would consider a normal life.

On the other end, Asperger's and the like. They're normal, to any standard you can name, save one. They can get overwhelmed easily in unfamiliar scenarios- to the point of panic attacks. Socially, normally, they're fine. The most you might say is that they can be a bit distant. They live normal lives, and most won't even know anything was abnormal.

The child in this article sounds in the middle. Autistic, but normally at least approaching normal functioning. They tend to need more structure, not less- it's the only way they learn to function in a normal society. The current vogue is to go less structure, as it keeps them happy, but it's a disservice. Happy now, but they can't function in society later.

I find it interesting. Here in town was once the State Asylum. TB, mental illness, retardation, they all were there. However, they had something right- people lived with those of their ability, and were given structure and responsibility. It worked for a very long time until it closed in the 70s- now, the group homes are going back to the same ideas.

The older gent was right. He needs structure and discipline. You can't hold him to the same standards as others, but at least hold to A standard.
2013-03-16 07:42:41 PM
2 votes:
This article is a load of bullshiat.  I have autism.  This author is using autism as an excuse to avoid discipline and self-control.  If your kids can't behave in a socially-acceptable manner, YOU DON'T TAKE THEM OUT to places where it matters until they learn better.  And, yes, a lot of places matter.
2013-03-16 07:14:22 PM
2 votes:

serial_crusher: Pocket Ninja: This was very good, subby, and you are going to be rewarded in the thread. And you avoided what would have been overkill in selecting the Hero tag, a common rookie mistake. My one suggestion would have been to redirect the apologetic element in the first half of the headline, which diminishes some of the overall punch. Instead of apologizing on behalf of the child, I would have had the woman apologizing for the person being bothered by the child, e.g., "I'm sorry that you are bothered by my autistic child acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it." A minor tweak, to be sure, but it would have upped the rage at least a notch or two.

I disagree. The genius of subby's headline is that it starts out with a parent of an autistic child behaving reasonably for once. You get this false sense of hope, only to have it taken away.


This. The headline is farking brilliant as it is. One of the best I have ever read.
2013-03-16 07:11:22 PM
2 votes:
Is this the thread where people self-diagnose as having Aspergers? Apparently so ...
2013-03-16 06:50:39 PM
2 votes:
Don't eat at family restaurants if you don't want to be around families. Someone making noise at a movie and won't stop? I'm complaining to management and getting a refund whether they are retarded or not.
2013-03-16 06:49:42 PM
2 votes:

SploogeTime: Hey guys! Get sterilized!


Or perhaps:

2.bp.blogspot.com

/your move
2013-03-16 06:19:04 PM
2 votes:

WTFdoesitmatter: chrylis: Most of the rest of what you've described is simply social skills that he should have been taught and learned, but this one is a lot more difficult: It can be very hard for an autistic person to tell how loud his voice is. Extensive practice can go a long way, but it's generally not fair to classify speaking too loudly (or too softly) as intentional.

When my father was still alive and actually would take control of the situation, it wasn't a problem to this extent. Although he is technically an adult, his childish behavior is practically egged on by the main adult in his life. But yeah, the volume isn't the main issue, it's the content behind the volume. Nobody wants to be in a public space and have to listen to some weirdo loudly talking about furry porn, or be at a Thanksgiving dinner and have someone jump up, throw plates and wave knives around at them.

chrylis: Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads. There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.

The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.


Fark no longer quotes only the highlighted text. Anyway...
We only see more autistic kids in public now because their parents aren't ashamed of them. We only have more diagnoses of autism because doctors stopped just labeling the kid retarded. As for ADD, we used to treat it as a behavior problem. It didn't help. Again, we see more kids with ADD because they aren't getting locked up.
2013-03-16 06:18:05 PM
2 votes:
If you are the parent of ANY child, you should know that your kid acts like a farking chimpanzee.

Sorry, but your "public" privileges are going to net you some input from your fellow humans.
2013-03-16 06:15:29 PM
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before


To the extent of increased diagnoses, sure.  I'm not at all convinced that we're seeing a massive rise in the actual incidence of autistic characteristics.  As one particular example, American society has become dramatically less structured in the last 40 years or so, meaning that individuals who would have had no particular difficulty in a more clearly-defined social environment are having more trouble today.  It's similar to the lower diagnosed rate of dyslexia in countries that speak Romance languages even though the rates found in wide-scale random testing are about equal.
2013-03-16 06:12:11 PM
2 votes:
Where it gets tricky is in the middle. What are reasonable expectations of behavior in public places? Like many autistic individuals, Jonah is virtually incapable of doing anything quietly. He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person. But what I keep coming back to is that community, by definition, is inclusive. Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone

No, you don't "get it".

If you "got it", you would realize that your inability to control your child is directly impacting everyone around you, and you are basically telling everyone there, "too bad for you"  because your child cannot stop yelling, bouncing, and clapping, and you lack the empathy for those around you to remove that child from the situation.

FFS, your wants do not trump everyone else's.
2013-03-16 06:09:06 PM
2 votes:

WTFdoesitmatter: Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.


You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.

The problem is that too many parents find it far easier to let their precious, neurodiverse little snowflake make an ass out of himself without setting down boundaries and enforcing rules. Autistic kids who grow up like that will have a hard time adjusting to displaying and dealing with emotions as an adult. My ex-brother in law is a great example of this. 300 pound autistic with the mind of a five year old, who all through his life had his parents give him everything he wanted when he acted out. Only now he's no longer the little boy, he's a 6'3, 300 pound juggernaut.

As a counter to your previous post, yes, there was a lot of autism in your Dad's day as well. Only they were labeled as 'tards or "eccentric", or they were thrown in jail as delinquents and trouble makers.
2013-03-16 05:58:58 PM
2 votes:

WTFdoesitmatter: The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.


On one hand, we have thousands of Physicians encompassing everything from Neonatology, Endocrinology, Neurology, Child Psychiatry; scientists of numerous disciplines with hard evidence, and decades of epidemiological and public health research which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before, and improved education at the Family Provider level at identification and intervention.

On the other hand, we have random internet guy who says it's a conspiracy.

randomdrake.com

I do applaud you for steering clear of the "Vaccines cause autism" derp, though.
2013-03-16 05:50:58 PM
2 votes:

WorldCitizen: With most things in life, I think there is a middle ground. It is important to remember that neither side is not the center of the universe, not just your side. Don't get offended if your disabled child is being noisy, being messy in eating (in action and/or sound) or the like and someone perhaps really just wanting to have a quieter dinner moves to another area of the restaurant. At the same time, one should generally be able to expect that the general public not act like total assholes toward a disabled person.

Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie?  No.


Movies are too expensive. I would feel guilty if my son's vocalizing and all ruined the movie for others. He even annoyed the other ASD patrons at the sensory friendly films with his vocalizing.

We do go to football games, outdoor concerts and other events that tend to be noisy.
2013-03-16 05:38:23 PM
2 votes:
"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.



He let you off the hook the first time, lady. Not everybody wants to hear your Lifetime Network story of woe and overcoming adversity in this cruel cold world.
2013-03-16 05:34:56 PM
2 votes:
 Jonah, who has autism, was very excited about the imminent arrival of his hamburger and french fries, so he was acting as he does when he's happy: bouncing in his seat, clapping his hands, and vocalizing a mishmash of squawks and catchphrases from his favoriteSesame Street videos.

Your son does not have autism. He's a 'tard.
2013-03-16 05:26:09 PM
2 votes:
So basically they are special when it benefits them, but at all other times must be treated as normal?
2013-03-16 05:15:26 PM
2 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: thenumber5: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


I really get annoyed at people with a "Visible Disability" think they are more deserving of help and basic compassion then someone with a non-visible disability

if i say i cant do something because this is a my leg/knee is hurting a lot that day, i get "O you have a bad limp sorry"

if i say i cant doing something because my anxiety is currently at 11 and it is taken every fiber of my being to not shut down, i get told "Suck it up"

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lum ...


you can cure an illness, you can only treat an disability
2013-03-16 05:15:09 PM
2 votes:

WTFdoesitmatter: BokChoy: This autism spectrum gets wider and wider every day.

The wider the spectrum, the more money to be made by the medical and pharmaceutical industry.


Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads.  There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.
2013-03-16 05:07:24 PM
2 votes:

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


He might have been shushing her.

Based on the first few sentences in the article it appears she talks way too much.
2013-03-16 05:06:00 PM
2 votes:
rugman11: That's what I was thinking.  I've seen my in-laws struggle with their four when it's both of them together.  I can't imagine handling 8 kids with 2 adults, especially when one of them is prone to loud outbursts.  That's just dumb.

The point where she talks about getting to relax and not constantly remind the 7 others to use their "indoor voices" at a restaurant and let the whole 8 pack act like the other one really makes me think they would just be a blast to be seated by.

Take that pack of hellspawn to Chuck E Cheese lady, they'll fit right in
2013-03-16 05:02:47 PM
2 votes:
But there is a difference in the two. Someone who needs a cane or a wheelchair and can take care of themselves is flat out different than an adult who needs a caretaker. They aren't worth more as people, but it is different. And when you start saying everyone with some sort of disability is the same, you're implicitly telling some people (who work hard to stay independent) that they need to be taken care of, which is a reasonable reason to be insulted.

Disability to an entitled mind is basically "you do not function optimally enough for my complete enjoyment of my surroundings". Is there a delay because it took time to load your wheelchair? Was your autistic kid speaking above a whisper? Were delicate aesthetics offended by your amputated hands? Did your "blind person cane" make an annoying clicky sound as they meditated in the subway?

When everything that inconveniences them is a disability, the type of disability is meaningless.
2013-03-16 05:01:57 PM
2 votes:

BokChoy: This autism spectrum gets wider and wider every day.


The wider the spectrum, the more money to be made by the medical and pharmaceutical industry.
2013-03-16 05:00:22 PM
2 votes:

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


This made me smile with fond memories of taking my younger daughter outside many restaurants to "chill" when she was a child. It actually provided some really cool bonding time. She's a responsible grown adult now and I'm very proud to call her my daughter.
2013-03-16 04:38:52 PM
2 votes:
If the world is for everyone and we need to share, then this mother needs to learn to share with arseholes
2013-03-16 04:35:03 PM
2 votes:
Here's a question to ponder. You're out in public, and some autistic crotchfruit smacks you hard from behind, and the mother tells you to deal with it because her child is just 'acting out.' What would you do about it?
2013-03-16 04:34:38 PM
2 votes:
Over a few years, when our kids were younger, my wife and I tried to take our boys out to eat about 3 or 4 times but then just gave up. We'd take turns walking them around in front of the restaurant while he settled down, only to come back to cold food and the other one starting to go off about something only to switch places and eat alone anyway. Now they're 3 and 5 and actually get compliments from strangers about just how awesome and well behaved they are. I think people have much lower social standards these days. They're good kids, but they're not that good.
2013-03-16 04:32:27 PM
2 votes:

great_tigers: namegoeshere: So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?

Absolutely!


Of the toddler yes, of the parents no.
2013-03-16 04:31:07 PM
2 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.

I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.

No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.


Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.
2013-03-16 04:28:41 PM
2 votes:
I'm sorry your daughter couldn't tolerate my disabled son smiling at her with both of his hands down his pants. I wish she wasn't a Nazi.
2013-03-16 04:25:27 PM
2 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.
2013-03-16 04:20:17 PM
2 votes:

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Are you familiar with the concept of a straw man fallacy?
2013-03-16 04:18:42 PM
2 votes:

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


Cancer causes autism and social disorders now?
2013-03-16 04:17:05 PM
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


A wild guess. You're collecting SS and Medicare, and you're infuriated about soshulizm?
2013-03-16 04:15:11 PM
2 votes:
We need to attend to the needs of everyone afflicted and affected by this made up disease.
2013-03-16 04:10:15 PM
2 votes:
We have a place for these kinds of people: the engineering department.
2013-03-16 01:49:45 PM
2 votes:

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.


So true.

/have the 5 and 7 yo niece and nephew this weekend
//took them out to eat and they marveled me with their appropriate behavior
///I'll have to give the brother in law and his wife some credit when we transfer them tomorrow
////I hope they had a good break
///reaffirmed that I did not belong having kids though
//although a night of watching Adventure Time was fun
2013-03-16 01:39:17 PM
2 votes:
Oh good, this thread again.

I still get a kick not my not autistic but still developmentally disabled 3 year old daughter behaves 1000x better than "normal" kids twice her age when we're out in public.

/she saves her meltdowns for home
Pud [TotalFark]
2013-03-16 01:16:40 PM
2 votes:

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


With me it was my mother. She had the odasity to get polio when she was 9. Selfish biatch (yea, that was sarcasm in case you missed it). I often got in "trouble" over the way I tended to deal with the comments (or looks).
Sometimes you are NOT the center of the world, and it isn't all that big a thing to just let another pass by.

/But that's just my opinion.
2013-03-18 08:36:42 PM
1 votes:

HairBolus: This thread is amazing. Right now there are 429 comments and over half (234) have been voted as smartest.

Truly Fark  is a land of high intellects.


and mine is the smartest!  I am so smart, S-M-R-T!
2013-03-18 07:12:37 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: Vector R: BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.

I was a little on the fence until I saw that part. Can you imagine that crowd at the movies? C'mon now, they cant possibly wait until Saw 5000 has a "special kid showing," or HEAVEN FORBID they wait until it comes out on DVD?

Why is ANYONE taking their kids to some of the movies out lately ffs? The number of small children I saw recently when we went to "Django Unchained" was appalling. Very small children, like, under ten. Do your kids really have to see that many buckets of blood before they reach their teens?


Pretty much. Get ready for some ACTION if you dare to ask them why they have little kids attended a hard R movie. "I DO WHUT I WANTS!!!! FREE COUNTRY!!!!!!"

I just don't to the movies much anymore, and chiefly because of loud, obnoxious patrons.
2013-03-18 06:38:52 AM
1 votes:

HairBolus: In addition, "real" autism (wherever along the spectrum) is often comorbid with other developmental disorders including sight, hearing, and other forms of mental disorders.


I'm skeptical of this; specifically, I believe it more likely than not that the sensory issues are an inherent part of the autistic package (e.g., you wouldn't call nausea and vertigo comorbid with intoxication).  I'm not aware of any other specific problems that are particularly associated with autism that aren't predictable from the cluster of characteristics; do you have any particular examples?

HairBolus: However since there is money to help care for autistic children, everybody with a child who "isn't right" wants a diagnosis of autism. As I recall Jenny McCarthy's kid ("vaccines gave my baby autism") really doesn't qualify as autistic.


I'm sure this happens to some extent; it'll be interesting to see whether the new research in neurotransmitter chemistry and fMRI studies will be able to lead to reliable lab tests and to what extent those correlate with existing diagnostic practice.  On the high-intelligence end, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that ASDs are still significantly underdiagnosed.

I hadn't heard that particular tidbit about McCarthy, and it didn't show up on Wiki.  Do you have a link about it?
2013-03-17 09:10:17 PM
1 votes:
There is no such right not to be disturbed by others in public places not 'typical' because of what fate delt them.  Civility is a two way street, someone is rude when they can help their bad behavior and should be called on it.  Someone is equally rude when they are intolerant of others for being/acting disturbing when they can't help it.

Saying that, the article writer is too sensitive, the old man is obviously just a grump.  He acknowledged he shouldn't shush an autistic child and apologized.  After that point it sounded like he was just annoyed at the mother for continuing a conversation that was closed.
2013-03-17 03:41:59 PM
1 votes:

orbister: december: I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that?

Just enough to make the mother feel a bit special. See also: mild dyslexia, mild dyspraxia, mild ADHD and all the other imagined ills of the middle classes.


As a special education teacher..I can tell you that there are indeed various severities of Apergers.
2013-03-17 01:31:12 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.

Is there some reason why you're doing this alone without help, or are you too special to ask for assistance with your child's behavior issues?


I read the original post by vice_magnet and exactly three words come to mind: Respite.  Care.  NAO.  (Yes, I know respite care services are not available everywhere.  If they are available where she is, though, she should take advantage of it now and again just for purposes of preservation of sanity.)
2013-03-17 12:56:35 PM
1 votes:

kimmygibblershomework: Folks can marry their houseplant but bog forbid if I want to find my wife's ring in the grass with a metal detector.  A pet peeve of mine is all of the local idiots that bought some regentrified WW2 shoebox and park their car on the street.  Ya have that whole driveway and can't save all of the other users of the road the hassle of avoiding your car because you can't take an extra 15 seconds to back out of your driveway.  As my dad used to say, "the fleas come with the dog". I also appreciate the general 'tude of if I want to enjoy the one day I have off with the woman I love and buy her food and I am irked by someone's behavior, that I am some sort of caveperson.  Just get em a tshirt.  If their own behavior doesn't bother them at all, then why would a tshirt that explains their condition to the public?  We all want to know how special lil Suzy pink panties is also, so as not to offend thee.  Any dog under 25 pounds is not a service dog.  Just get a furby and feed them with your smartphone.  Also get the ADA tattooed on your forehead so we don't have to listen to the "You are NOT ALLOWED to ask me that question!" horseshiat in every airport, eatery, busline, sitcom, fruitbats, orangutans, and sitch.


Are you.... are you having a stroke?  Do you need me to call emergency services?
2013-03-17 12:09:54 PM
1 votes:

december: chrylis: No, "mild autism" is like "mild hearing impairment", or "mild cerebral palsy".  It comes in degrees, completely debilitating at the extremely severe end but neutral or even beneficial at the mild end.

what do all degrees of autism along the spectrum have in common?

another way to put the point: why think that "mild" autism and "severe" autism are two forms of the same condition, as opposed to two very different conditions?


Autistic characteristics reliably come in a cluster called the "autistic triad", which consists of difficulties in person-to-person communication (e.g., reading body language), social understanding (figuring out what behaviors are appropriate when), and various executive tasks.  Virtually all people with these characteristics also has particular sensory sensitivity corresponding in degree to the others, and stress can "turn them up" so that in tough situations, someone who's on the mild-to-unnoticeable end of the spectrum can look very similar to how someone with a more severe version does normally.  Additionally, these characteristics usually come with a fairly standardized package of specific quirks (such as literal interpretation of speech and a very marked preference for small-scale routines) that are noticeable in individuals across the spectrum.
2013-03-17 09:40:15 AM
1 votes:

chrylis: No, "mild autism" is like "mild hearing impairment", or "mild cerebral palsy".  It comes in degrees, completely debilitating at the extremely severe end but neutral or even beneficial at the mild end.


what do all degrees of autism along the spectrum have in common?

another way to put the point: why think that "mild" autism and "severe" autism are two forms of the same condition, as opposed to two very different conditions?
2013-03-17 09:16:47 AM
1 votes:

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


While I'm sure he isn't trying to be a distraction, I'm pretty sure he's quite good at it nonetheless.  I sympathize with you having to care for him 24/7 and hope that someday you will be lucky enough to carve out enough time for yourself to go out and at least enjoy a quiet relaxing meal, perhaps with a friend.  And let's just hope some self-righteous prick with defective crotchfruit doesn't ruin that meal for you and everyone else in the restaurant.
2013-03-17 08:48:11 AM
1 votes:

serial_crusher: orbister: dready zim: I don`t want kids running around shouting and playing videos loudly when I pay for a relaxing meal

Well, they don't want to behave as if they're in church when they go out for a lively sociable meal just because you want the silence of the crypt while eating. So explain, will you, why your demands trump theirs? Your answer should include the phrase "my monstrous sense of entitlement".

It all comes down to established codes of conduct at the place you go to.  If it was chuck-e-cheeze's, the guy's an asshat for criticizing childish behavior.  If it was a nice quiet restaurant, TFA is the asshat for bringing in a 14 year old human noisemaker.  There's a lot of gray area between, and TFA only describes it as a "casual restaurant", which is somewhat nebulous.  There's plenty of places that I would describe as "casual", but still expect some goddamned peace and quiet during my dinner.


A "nice" restaurant that serves a kid's hamburger and fries?  Methinks we aren't talking about L'Espalier here.

People need to get over it already.  Autistic kids are generally no worse than other "normal" kids.  As a parent, use good discretion and don't be a jerk to people who object to your presence.  Not every situation needs to be a teachable moment.  And don't expect to take your snowflake to a fancy location or one requiring quiet unless you have made prior arrangements.  Many movie theatres have special showings for kids with special needs.

On the other side, going out to a public place doesn't entitle you to the perfect moment.  You can, and will, be disturbed by all kinds of people and if you can't reconcile yourself to that fact, then stay home and order takeout.
2013-03-17 08:23:13 AM
1 votes:

PunGent: But really?  I can't enjoy a movie because YOUR kid has problems?

Seems selfish of you.


No more selfish than the idea that she shouldn't enjoy a movie because your kids has problems.

A couple of times I have been on a train when a clearly disabled child has been making a lot of noise, surrounding passengers have been glaring and the parents have been looking increasing harassed. In those cases I make a point of walking over and saying, with a smile, "Please don't worry on my behalf about the noise your son is making. It doesn't bother me in the slightest."
2013-03-17 08:05:58 AM
1 votes:

AbbeySomeone: I am appalled at all the people that simply accept these diagnosis without questioning the origen and seeking a cure. It's ridiculous. Some of these people actually seem proud that they deal with this.


Unlike the rest of science, much of medicine - and particularly mental health medicine - is still stuck at the Victorian stage of "examine it, measure it, name it, we're done".
2013-03-17 07:32:03 AM
1 votes:

UnspokenVoice: hundreddollarman: UnspokenVoice: hundreddollarman: UnspokenVoice: Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?

You should carry a gun an AR-15.

FTFY

An AR-15 is a good idea BUT it means losing the surprise aspect. Perhaps a pair of Mk IIIs is a suitable compromise and one can always carry extra magazines.

Good point. A handgun is more concealable, but if I'm going to carry a pistol, it wouldn't be a .22. I'd go with a 9mm, something like a Glock 26.

Ah, see I opted for .22 for a reason. Think about how many rounds they can carry AND shoot into a person while they're still standing. They can gleefully dump an entire magazine into a person and still have a dozen magazines in their front pocket or scattered about their body. A 9mm is going to do the job in just a single round or two. S'not nearly as much fun I don't imagine.


Every time someone questions the stopping power of a .22, I ask if I can shoot them in the chest with one.

No takers yet, oddly.
2013-03-17 06:27:47 AM
1 votes:

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


Is there some reason why you're doing this alone without help, or are you too special to ask for assistance with your child's behavior issues?
2013-03-17 06:14:05 AM
1 votes:
There's no question that separation makes things easier for everyone. After another older patron at the same establishment complained on a different night about Jonah watching his touch-screen device while waiting for his dinner, we permanently moved our group into a party room apart from the main dining room. I'm finally able to relax-we don't have to make Jonah stay in his seat or constantly remind the seven other kids to use their "indoor voices." Philosophically, however, it bothers me: What are my children, and my friend's children, learning about the place of the disabled in the community? Will they grow up thinking it's perfectly natural for people like Jonah to literally be shunted into a back room?

Yes. That is where children of all ages should be if they won`t be quiet. I don`t want kids running around shouting and playing videos loudly when I pay for a relaxing meal, it doesn`t matter if they are autistic or not. This is the equality she desires, to be excluded from polite society like all the other kids who won`t shut up including my sisters and my sister in laws who are all feral and should not be taken anywhere.

If I wouldn`t want a child acting like that around me whether they are autistic or not then it is not prejudice against the disabled, in fact, it`s exactly the opposite. They are being treated EXACTLY the same as non-disabled kids and their parents don`t like it!
2013-03-17 04:56:27 AM
1 votes:

orbister: Used to, maybe. Nowadays we say "autistic spectrum disorder" with autism at one end.


Until DSM-V, anyway. ;-)  Even if you're making the technical distinction, however, it's worth noting that a firm diagnosis of "autism" encompasses both completely noncommunicative individuals and Temple Grandin.

orbister: In particular I have sympathy for them over the large number of people who excuse bad behaviour in their children with "oh, he's got undiagnosed ASD", thus trivialising the whole thing.


This.  Getting a diagnosis isn't hard, and a good parent would want to get her child whatever sort of training will be useful.
2013-03-17 04:52:50 AM
1 votes:
Nothing like an autism thread to bring out the trolls...

Soupysales: Sure, so why not punish the rest of society for your defective genes.


Yogimus: Is it too late to SIDS the little bastard? Get a babysitter if you want to go eat, or eat out at dennys, you self righteous pool of defective chromosomes.


and the orcs.  I'm having trouble figuring this out; do people like this think they're being funny, or are they really the sort of people who need to be a bit more fatal-accident-prone?
2013-03-17 04:46:43 AM
1 votes:
Nothing changes one's perspective than becoming a parent, or step-parent in my case of a kid with ADHD and him having an autistic mom.  No idea if he has Aspergers or not, he's 13 and currently doesn't want to go to therapy although he could use it, since he's not really off the chain we're not forcing him.  Yes, he can get up to being an asshole at times, but he's punished appropriately and is generally well behaved when we're out in public.  If I ever thought he was out of hand, though, I wouldn't hesitate to haul his arse out to the parking lot for a "chat" although he's as tall as I am.  He knows better and while he respects and fears his dad, he knows that the wicked stepmother will handily put him in his place.  And yet, he still loves me, bless his sweet lil heart.  I can't imagine a full on autistic child, that is a challenge I haven't ever had to face (only autistic adults, which are another ballgame) but even with his mental problems, I won't let him screw up a good evening of family fun for either the family or for total strangers.  Not on my watch.
2013-03-17 04:46:12 AM
1 votes:

orbister: "Mild autism" is like "slight pregnancy".


No, "mild autism" is like "mild hearing impairment", or "mild cerebral palsy".  It comes in degrees, completely debilitating at the extremely severe end but neutral or even beneficial at the mild end.
2013-03-17 04:42:55 AM
1 votes:

Dr. Whoof: Because based on the article, she sounds like she may have undiagnosed mild autism herself.


"Mild autism" is like "slight pregnancy".
2013-03-17 04:04:29 AM
1 votes:

ruetheday69: Cup_O_Jo: tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?

To physically handicapped. It takes us back to the dark ages when polio patients,mentally retarded,and the like were locked away in the mental hospital which is 3rd complete different thing.

Yup. Exactly this. I am hearing impaired and have been since my teens. I get a lot of bullshiat from people and lots of weird looks and since i am not 'typical' deaf as in nonverbal and sign language people are very confused and generally treat me like I have a mental disability.


Me too actually, since elementary school people have assumed that hearing aids meant I was retarded (their words). it always sucked.
2013-03-17 02:53:34 AM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: SpiderQueenDemon: But you do have to train them, just like you'd train a dog, and for much the same reasons.

People will deny that and actively disbelieve it for the same excuses they deny evolution. "We did not come from monkey's, god made us and we're special! Those tactics are for raising animals[said with as much disdain as possible]"


Oddly enough, my experience has been that the fundamentalist type tends to discipline children effectively, while the more smug type of liberal tends to have entitled snowflakes.
2013-03-17 02:10:16 AM
1 votes:

SpiderQueenDemon: But you do have to train them, just like you'd train a dog, and for much the same reasons.


People will deny that and actively disbelieve it for the same excuses they deny evolution.  "We did not come from monkey's, god made us and we're special! Those tactics are for raising animals[said with as much disdain as possible]"

Fact is, we are animals.  We can, and have, learned a LOT from studying how other creatures develop, namely those animals that are born and mature and die at a much more rapid pace than we do, yet posses similar social groupings(ie mammals, specifically dogs and primates but many others).

Oddly enough, some of these things we've learned are because we can be a certain amount of "inhumane" to these other animals. Take pavlov's dogs for a prime example.  He an another were stopped from experimenting on human babies, but not before a direct similarity was noted in association.(Ie drooling at a dinner bell)

Funny, in a way.  We can't hardly study humans, because they age at the same rate we do, and it's inhumane.  We find an alternative, and people like PETA try to stop even that.  We have zealots that think we're above animals, and zealots who think other animals are just as deserving.  What are we to do, sit here with our thumb up our butts?
2013-03-17 01:22:55 AM
1 votes:

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


they already wear a special hat. It's  the bavkwards ones.
2013-03-17 01:02:39 AM
1 votes:

octopied: WhippingBoy: I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.

This is a great way of giving special needs kids proper interaction/enjoyable activites(and also, enjoyable time for the family) while respecting the rights of others to enjoy their meals/activities.

Unfortunately, people with special needs kids are dealt a difficult hand, but planning ahead improves the situation for all.an d hopefully occasionally you guys can get a babysitter9much more difficult for special needs) and have a night to yourselves


Even if we don't get a babysitter, it's no big deal. Take out food and the 50" widescreen with surround sound is not exactly claim to being "hard done by".
2013-03-17 12:58:03 AM
1 votes:

Vector R: BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.

I was a little on the fence until I saw that part. Can you imagine that crowd at the movies? C'mon now, they cant possibly wait until Saw 5000 has a "special kid showing," or HEAVEN FORBID they wait until it comes out on DVD?


Why is ANYONE taking their kids to some of the movies out lately ffs? The number of small children I saw recently when we went to "Django Unchained" was appalling. Very small children, like, under ten. Do your kids really have to see that many buckets of blood before they reach their teens?
2013-03-17 12:57:35 AM
1 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?

To physically handicapped. It takes us back to the dark ages when polio patients,mentally retarded,and the like were locked away in the mental hospital which is 3rd complete different thing.


still happens
2013-03-17 12:57:15 AM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.


This is a great way of giving special needs kids proper interaction/enjoyable activites(and also, enjoyable time for the family) while respecting the rights of others to enjoy their meals/activities.

Unfortunately, people with special needs kids are dealt a difficult hand, but planning ahead improves the situation for all.an d hopefully occasionally you guys can get a babysitter9much more difficult for special needs) and have a night to yourselves
2013-03-17 12:37:39 AM
1 votes:

4seasons85!: With all do respect I disagree with you. All illnesses are from a physical origin.


I will take issue with that, but it comes down to how you define illness and origin.

You can take young person who's 100% healthy, and by words alone(or rather, external stimuli), raise them in such a manner as they will have some severe psychological issues.  Many would deem that an illness, and a nonphysical origin, Ie no malformations of the brain or biological systems were involved with the creation of the illness.

Sure, the brain is based on a physical body and stores memories via chemicals and such, but the origin is not, as you seem to imply, from some malformation or abnormality in the brain, only the external input.

You can create a virtual retard or psychopath, based on how you raise a child.

That's the root of the nature vs nurture debate, which in general, either, or both, can be a heavy influence.

The problem is determining the actual cause of such states as retardation or psychopathy.  There is only so much we can actually examine physically, and even less of the past interaction that we can actually know.

We do know external stimuli can overload the brain and cause severe problems, both in the short term and the long term.  We also know that concrete physical differences can be irrevocable, even if a very mild divergence from the norm is had.

/don't anyone get riled that I say "retard", it's a vague word meant with no malice
//unless you are a retard and the shoe happens to fit, in which case, sorry about your luck
2013-03-17 12:36:39 AM
1 votes:

rugman11: PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.

Our local theatre has started introducing special showings for the "differently abled."  They keep the house lights up a little more and the sound down a little bit, while also allowing kids to move around and make noise.  They've apparently gotten good feedback.

http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/14/2556527/warren-to-screen-movie-for- ki ds.html


Now that's an excellent idea. Have "differently abled" nights at movies, family-friendly restaurants, etc. Everybody wins!
2013-03-17 12:27:29 AM
1 votes:

Frederick: I'm going to side with the mother in this instance.  Although not all the information is in the article, a hamburger and fries are mentioned and I'll infer from that a fast food place.  Also early morning is mentioned along with very few patrons.  I will again infer the mom has done her diligence in minimizing the impact of her kid on the community.

This typifies the fine line between the need for tolerance and consideration.  It's a judgment call.  I'd like to think an elder gentleman would be the type to seek the high ground in that circumstance.  If the mother and kid were crossing the line into inconsideration, I'd like to think she would recognize it and take appropriate steps.


wanna know how I know you didn't read the article?
2013-03-17 12:10:40 AM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: WhippingBoy: I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.

Wait, what? Your kids are probably going to grow up normal and fit right in with the rest of society. What kind of monster parents are you???


I hope they do grow up normal. And I'm optimistic that they will, because, as their father, I have to be.

However, if by some chance they *don't*, then they don't get some of the nice things that "typical" members of society get.

Whoever said that "everyone is equal" needs a level-5 cock-punch.
2013-03-16 11:56:27 PM
1 votes:

SpaceBison: Austism is just a made up disease used to cover for the parent's inability or unwillingness to disciple their little crotchfruits.


Tell us more, Dr. SpaceBIson. Want to explain how schizophrenics really just have a different view of the world, and depressives just need more vitamins and exercise?
2013-03-16 11:54:22 PM
1 votes:

Smarshmallow: PsiChick:  I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome

How do you know this, if it hasn't been diagnosed?


The word 'had' is past tense. It was diagnosed around eighteen or so. I have Asperger's, but I don't usually display symptoms anymore, and I wasn't displaying a lot at diagnosis, because my mother taught me a lot of what I was missing. I only had to work for a few months to bump up past 'Asperger's' to just 'weirdo' territory.
2013-03-16 11:49:16 PM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: While I agree with most of what you say, I feel your post is slightly insulting to people who have autism.

The mother wasn't autistic; she was just a self-centred, narcissistic biatch.


Can you be sure of that?  Because based on the article, she sounds like she may have undiagnosed mild autism herself.  She can't seem to understand what's acceptable public behavior and what isn't.  She clearly couldn't tell her son was being disruptive.  And autism, or the risk for autism, is inheritable.

So, no, basically I'm insulting this author and suggesting they get themselves checked out, as I would forgive them completely for their ignorance and need to drive home a point with a person who had already apologized if they were themselves autistic...but if not, then yest, they are a self-centered, narcissistic biatch who will likely raise an autistic child at a far lower functional level than the child deserves.
2013-03-16 11:39:53 PM
1 votes:

Dr. Whoof: WanPhat: Kids makes noise.
Guy says "shhh"
Dad says he's autistic.
Shhh guy says he's sorry.

Story over, we're all cool, right?

How does this result in full-length story and a 7 page thread?

Well first, it was a mom, not a dad, but second, we end up with a seven page thread because the mom is apparently also autistic and couldn't just accept the old man's apology and return to her dinner.  She was winding up a lecture and the old man cut her off, ruining her evening because she didn't get to give the old man an earful of how important and special her child is.

The entire article boils down to the author being a grade-a biatch because she wasn't allowed to lecture a man who had already apologized.  Also, reading between the lines, her child was misbehaving badly enough to affect other diners, but since it wasn't, in her opinion, excessive, she didn't think it was an issue.  It's possible she was correct, but considering the old man apologized readily once learning the child was autistic, I'm going to make the educated guess that the kid was being a complete ass and the mom was not at all dealing with it, and now is writing an article simply to make herself feel better.

Again, not sure the autism apple fell far from the tree there.


While I agree with most of what you say, I feel your post is slightly insulting to people who have autism.

The mother wasn't autistic; she was just a self-centred, narcissistic biatch.
2013-03-16 11:33:34 PM
1 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: thenumber5: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


I really get annoyed at people with a "Visible Disability" think they are more deserving of help and basic compassion then someone with a non-visible disability

if i say i cant do something because this is a my leg/knee is hurting a lot that day, i get "O you have a bad limp sorry"

if i say i cant doing something because my anxiety is currently at 11 and it is taken every fiber of my being to not shut down, i get told "Suck it up"

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lump them all in together. See today I gave you a leg up. I gave you an illness instead of a disability. TADAH.

BTW I am also responding to Mr. Angry=ReverendJynx get the fark over yourself man. You are reading way to much in to shiat.


With all do respect I disagree with you. All illnesses are from a physical origin. Mental illness usually has a brain chemical imbalance. Brain chemical imbalance and structural reformatted can cause learning disabilities. Physical disabilities are caused by structural problems and/or chemical problems. So again all are physical in origin. When someone is mentally I'll they see a doctor and go to therapy to fix it or learn how to lie with it. Same concept applies to the physically disabled. Those with physical disabilities go to specialty doctors who cure them or help them learn how to live with their illness. I see no major difference between mental illness, physical illness, and developmental illnesses. Also all three have varying levels of severity. I hope this makes sense.
2013-03-16 11:30:00 PM
1 votes:
Kids makes noise.
Guy says "shhh"
Dad says he's autistic.
Shhh guy says he's sorry.

Story over, we're all cool, right?

How does this result in full-length story and a 7 page thread?
2013-03-16 11:26:21 PM
1 votes:
did i miss something? the old guy shushed him the author walked over to explain the old guy apologized and instead of going back to her happy little dinner she started giving more explanation than necessary old guy didnt need or care to hear a 10 min explanation and told her so. sounds to me he understood or at least would have left it alone after that but she let herself ruin her night because it was a bigger issue to her than to him
2013-03-16 10:23:06 PM
1 votes:

bborchar: My friend's brother-in-law seems to be a high-functioning sociopath- he's very smart (he's an engineer, and he works with my husband at the lab); but he's also extremely moronic when it comes to interacting with people.  He's a leper at work, and while you feel sorry for him, when you meet him, it's VERY hard to like him.  He makes inappropriate comments to my friend (he went into the private room where she was nursing her son and started talking about her breasts the other day), and he charged a lot of porn to the company card and turned in on his statement.  He's a grown man, and has no friends and can't get a girlfriend.  It really is sad...but no one can stand to be around him.  However, his mother still babies him and begs everyone to spend time with him.

It's a sad reality, but people who don't function well in our society are going to be outcasts...and society won't change for them.  It's hard to be friends with someone who doesn't understand boundaries.  As a mother, I completely understand wanting people to like your child and being heartbroken when they don't...but as a member of society, it's impossible to welcome everyone in when they are so difficult to deal with.  It's a very thin line, and there's not a lot of help for people who have to walk it.


Your friends brother sounds a lot like my dad,my dad can be quite inappropriate, fortunately  not as far to follow a nursing woman and discuss her breasts. He does occasionally bring up he and my mother's intimate relationship details up to me(his daughter) and occasionally will make comments about my breasts,hips or butt(not in the last few years though). When I am over with my brother and his wife, my father will dominate the conversation. As would occasionally be expected,  my brother and his wife can contribute to it. I, however, will often be shut down with a "stop interrupting, I'm talking", which is offensive and frustrating as I don't  get to participate much.He doesn't much interact with people now as he is quite ill and essentially housebound. Occasionally, I have to help him to the doctor, and it is a dreaded event largely because of his obnoxious behavior.
2013-03-16 10:06:22 PM
1 votes:

sendbillmoney: Radioactive Ass: 
/tl;dr version:  Fark you, I won the crap shoot on making a good kid.


Wow, that's positive thinking gone aggressively wrong.

"Good" is subjective, and in this subject, a valid word for a kid without issues.  No one is saying you had a "bad" kid, only that he's not "normal".  Thousands of parents fail to have "good" kids.

That's what I find funny in any liberal topic, people who are so quick to take offense, it's almost as if that's what they show up for.  There are at least ten intentionally offensive posts in this thread, maybe even one or two directed at you, not some anon stranger, that you could have validly pulled out the "fark you" on.  You chose one that really wansn't out of line.  A defect is a defect, making that handi-capable argument may be good for your kid's confidence, but really doesn't fit in a conversation that's about kids, in general, that might be similar.

That's what 18 years of false positivity (Ie lying to yourself because you can't cope with the honest truth) can do to a person.
2013-03-16 10:05:15 PM
1 votes:
Wow...the first mom, I don't see that she did anything wrong. The curmudgeonly old dude tried to shush
someone who was not being all that loud and was not at his table. The mom apologized, told the guy that
her kid was autistic and not intentionally trying to be disruptive.

The one where the security guard told the sister not to bring her brother back unless he was on a leash,
the guard was out of line with his comments but the sister knew her brother tended to be grabby with
the hot food trays. She should have kept an eye on him.

The dude that refused to serve the table that moved away from the family with the Downs Syndrome kid?
Kudos.

My oldest son is the one who had the volatile behavior issues. My youngest, not so much. The only issues
we ever really had was once at Sweet Tomatoes when he got freaked out by our server who had a
mustache. We were a party of 12 or so and my son started crying (he was an infant). I was in the process
of calming him down and almost had him calm when the manager asked me and my son to leave. I said
sure, no problem. I'll bring him back in when he is calm. She said, "No - we've had a number of complaints.
You can't bring him back in.". Keep in mind, the time between my son getting scared and him calming down
to barely a whimper was less than a few minutes.

So I got to walk the gauntlet with my kid and go hang outside for an hour. The "number" of complaints? One
crotchety dried up old prune sitting behind us.
2013-03-16 10:02:40 PM
1 votes:

ReverendJynxed: Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces while handicapped people make handicapped faces...


Sometimes I wreck the fark outta car doors with my cane when ineligible jackasses park in handicapped spaces knowing damn well they don't need it and aren't qualified for it.

/No, not ITG - I most certainlly have done.  Cause the level of pain I get to experience when I have to walk that much further needs to be shared with them that inflict it.
//No, I don't just assume - I know not all disabilities glow in the dark.  I'm talking about people I stop, inquire with when they disable no plates/placards, that proceed to tell me to fark off cause they're in a hurry or whatever, no sane reason given, and screw handicapped parking.  (I've nodded and walked away with frantic mothers running in to buy meds for sick kids, etc. - I'm not a total loon.)
///Yeah, really - 4 times thusfar have people been that messed up in the head.  Course I suppose I have no room to discuss possible mental abberation considering the retaliation I've engaged in, but it doesn't make them any less of a bunch of screaming arseholes.
2013-03-16 09:52:34 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: hardinparamedic: Yes, it does not cause actual autism.  It can cause some severe developmental problems that are decidedly similar that can be mistaken as.(and what the guy you were replying to was talking about).

It's humorous because you're attempting to pretend you're superior, but are evidently inferior.

Ah, you're one of those people that simply writes off those that disagree with you as a troll.  You win the internet.

Well, if we're judging on hypocrisy and/or delusion at any rate.


I spent the rest of the dinner constantly shushing Jonah, even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior.

Dinner, 6 on a thursday night...

While "casual eatery" might be fast food, the fact that they're sitting and waiting on food to arrive seems to imply the opposite of fast food.
2013-03-16 09:33:28 PM
1 votes:

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Because clearly there are only two alternatives: Either let autistic kids run amok in public and everyone else just has to smile and suffer; or lock them away never to be seen again. And there is no point in trying to find a comfortable middle ground.

Maybe, just maybe, both sides are wrong. It's entirely possible that parents should be expected to control their children--autistic, wheelchair-bound, or supposedly normal--when in public; and that others should acknowledge that children will be children and may need more than one correction before they sit in total silence in a restaurant or movie theater.

If you are such an asshole parent that you think Jimmie should be able to do anything he wants in public because he's autistic, then you should know you're not doing him any favors: He's going to have to exist in public all his life, and he needs to learn some modicum of acceptable social behavior WHILE YOU'RE THERE so that someday he can do it when you're not. That's the idea, I hope, and your eventual goal. And if you are such an asshole human that you can't accept that there are children and disabled people in the world who don't behave precisely like YOU think they should, then you need to move to a remote island so they won't be around to bother you, because there are more of them than you.

But both sides need to accept they're not the center of the universe and they're equally being assholes by insisting the world conform to them.
2013-03-16 09:17:10 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: cptjeff: Mikey1969: I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.

Which is good, because thinking people hate you.

Jesus. That's the best you can come up with? You need to go back to rebuttal 101, you suck at this.


The problem is that I'm tired and haven't eaten yet, and there was too much stupid packed into your post for me to bother with any sort of real response.
2013-03-16 09:14:45 PM
1 votes:
My issue with the article is she takes exception to "I heard you the first time." He could have reacted way worse and there is no way the author knows what was going on in the gentlemen's life. Maybe he was having a shiatty day.

You told him your child was autistic..he verbally accepted that without arguement or complaint. Could he have been nicer? Probably. But to take exception with "I heard you the first time." Is rediculous. Take an internal memo of "what a jerk" and move on like everybody else.
2013-03-16 09:00:36 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: There are two sides to that coin that you're conveniently neglecting.  Problematic Behavior =/= Problematic Brain

Many frigid and neglectful parents do indeed end up with kids that are, on the surface, indistinguishable from the mentally handicapped. Their symptoms can be mild to downright farked up.  Having been capable of learning, but having no adequate teacher can yield a person that's troubled for their entire life.

Add to that, many doctors diagnose based on symptomatic behavior alone, not on catscans/MRI or other means of testing structure and function.

Your "debunking" is hardly what you make it seem.  Yes, it does not cause actual autism.  It can cause some severe developmental problems that are decidedly similar that can be mistaken as.(and what the guy you were replying to was talking about).

It's humorous because you're attempting to pretend you're superior, but are evidently inferior.


media.comicvine.com
2013-03-16 08:59:22 PM
1 votes:
Same rules apply as for small children. It's that simple.
2013-03-16 08:54:42 PM
1 votes:
I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.
2013-03-16 08:42:52 PM
1 votes:

namegoeshere: WorldCitizen: Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie? No.

Two solutions: 1) drive-in. 2) find a free family movie festival. They're full of kids, and kind of noisy, which is expected. And it's much easier to be tolerant of off behavior when it's a free second-run movie than a movie that you paid for and only just recently found time to go see.


3) There are a number of movie chains (Rave Cinemas being one I'm personally aware of who does this) who have special movie showings for people with sensory integration issues (including people with autism)--which means that one isn't necessarily restricted to second-run motion pictures and there are options where "free family movie festivals" and drive-ins are rare or flat-out nonexistant.
2013-03-16 07:58:07 PM
1 votes:

Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).

It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.

LOL know how I know you don't know the legal definition of "Public place"

/I know


It seems you are conflating the idea of a public restaurant, which is actually a private business on a private property, with a true public space, such as the sidewalk and street outside said restaurant.
2013-03-16 07:47:05 PM
1 votes:
There are more people than I realized who think "autistic" means "some selfish asshole who doesn't realize that my enjoyment of my Chili's burger in total silence is more important than everything else combined."

I had my vacation last week disrupted twice by autistic kids. But being an adult not suffering from inflated delusions of my own importance, I took it in stride.
2013-03-16 07:42:30 PM
1 votes:

NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).


It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.
2013-03-16 07:37:18 PM
1 votes:

december: A waitress sat me in a dining room full of screaming kids this week. I got up and walked over to the bar and ate my meal there instead. Apparently that makes me an awful person according to this woman.

The one thing parents need to remember is that the infinite patience they have for their own children does not extend to other people. No one is telling you not to love your kid. We're just telling you that we don't.


Point taken and noted.

hundreddollarman: Why do people with disabled placards on their cars drive like they're mentally disabled as well?


You noticed that too?  I thought they only gave those out to mentally handicapped people, until my fil got his.  His driving went to crap, and now I think the placard has mental disabling powers.  It starts with the self entitlement over their disability and then changes their hindsight from 20/20 to severe nearsightedness when discussing what they had done wrong.  My fil still insist the time he rear ended a woman that stopped for a r/r crossing was all her fault.
2013-03-16 07:37:01 PM
1 votes:
For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).
2013-03-16 07:36:49 PM
1 votes:

Neums: I get that the headline says "special needs," but the thrust of the article (I didn't read it all, but scanned) was primarily about autistic people, right? So why use a pic of a kid with Downs?


How many different stock photos do you expect a journalist to keep in their /tard folder?

Being on Fark mine is quite well stocked of course, but let's face it, most of those don't work well in serious conversations (though GW Bush falling off a Segway would have still been a good choice for the pic)
2013-03-16 07:22:07 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick:  I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome


How do you know this, if it hasn't been diagnosed?
2013-03-16 07:19:03 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: The new default post thing is only sporadically reliable. They need to add an option to use the html by default. I'm not exactly sure why it got changed. People using noscript maybe? Whatever, it's now an unreliable pain in the ass.


THIS THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS...

Old buttons, plz. I am not getting over it.
2013-03-16 07:15:44 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: something tells me you may be embarrassed and apologize.


Or otherwise show that you are considerate of the other people around you.  Didn't mean to imply anything there.  Embarrassment itself is nothing to be shameful about, or used to deride people(shouldn't be at any rate).  It's a display of one who's typically agreeable and considerate, but that a mistake was made and recognized.  People that don't get embarrassed are typically the one's you have to watch out for, be they sociopaths or psychopaths or otherwise disturbed.

Vsauce did a youtube video about embarrassment recently, kinda a neat concept or two in there.
2013-03-16 07:14:42 PM
1 votes:
A waitress sat me in a dining room full of screaming kids this week. I got up and walked over to the bar and ate my meal there instead. Apparently that makes me an awful person according to this woman.

The one thing parents need to remember is that the infinite patience they have for their own children does not extend to other people. No one is telling you not to love your kid. We're just telling you that we don't.
2013-03-16 07:01:53 PM
1 votes:
Why do people with disabled placards on their cars drive like they're mentally disabled as well?
2013-03-16 06:51:03 PM
1 votes:

Day_Old_Dutchie: The problem seems to be that some parents desperately want their developmentally-challenged kids to be "normal" in the worst possible way. So they attempt to "socialize" them at every opportunity.

The problem is that these social situations the kids are dragged to are extremely uncomfortable for them to deal with  - think of the most boring things you have had to deal with, but, of course you have the self-control NOT to let it be known. (E.g. a Catholic Wedding with the high mass included - you have to be polite to those who invited you, but, damn! it's BORING and goes on-and-on!)

However, some of these poor kids look at these social engagements as pure torture. They just want to be left in their own little world, in their own thoughts, repetitively playing with their simple toys, but they have to be made to sit still, be quiet and go along with everyone else.  And they will act out.

And forcing them into these situations to make mommy think they are normal won't teach them anything and is just plain cruel.


Children with ASD can be conditioned at a young age to function in certain situations. You introduce the experience slowly and they gradually learn to tolerate and behave appropriately.  The boy in the restaurant was misbehaving by the way. He was experiencing joy and excitement. The most a mother can teach him is "shh" and hope that he does it.  She could also try to distract him with something.

It is important that all children have a variety of life experiences. My son does get bored at home and LOVES to go on "field trips." He flaps, runs and vocalizes with excitement and sometimes tantrums because he doesn't want the experience to end.
2013-03-16 06:44:46 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: WTFdoesitmatter: Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.

You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.


There are two sides to that coin that you're conveniently neglecting.  Problematic Behavior =/= Problematic Brain

Many frigid and neglectful parents do indeed end up with kids that are, on the surface, indistinguishable from the mentally handicapped. Their symptoms can be mild to downright farked up.  Having been capable of learning, but having no adequate teacher can yield a person that's troubled for their entire life.

Add to that, many doctors diagnose based on symptomatic behavior alone, not on catscans/MRI or other means of testing structure and function.

Your "debunking" is hardly what you make it seem.  Yes, it does not cause actual autism.  It can cause some severe developmental problems that are decidedly similar that can be mistaken as.(and what the guy you were replying to was talking about).

It's humorous because you're attempting to pretend you're superior, but are evidently inferior.

JWideman: Fark no longer quotes only the highlighted text. Anyway...


It does sometimes, it did just now for me in quoting you.  The new default post thing is only sporadically reliable.  They need to add an option to use the html by default.  I'm not exactly sure why it got changed.  People using noscript maybe?  Whatever, it's now an unreliable pain in the ass.
2013-03-16 06:44:31 PM
1 votes:

BubbaJones: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.


Some of these movements/vocaliza

Persnickety Paladin: Cup_O_Jo:

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lum ...

 I don't think it is fair to classify mental and physical disabilities as the same thing. But, I think the reason why people lump them together is to remind themselves that if something happens that they may deem inconvenient it is a result of something beyond the person's control. It doesn't always come from a disrespectful place. It comes from the desire to accommodate situations that we might not encounter by ourselves, and to adjust to diverse needs when possible.

I also wanted to state that visible physical disability gives people clearer direction in terms of what they can expect. You see a wheelchair, you know this person has mobility issues, and thus, if you are not a jerk, you don't roll your eyes when they have to be loaded on the train. In the case of some physical disabilities and mental issues, one cannot tell; which leads to more sticky situations.


They are also lumped together because the same laws protect their rights.

FYI Those with ASD sometimes get a handicapped parking placard due to the risk of elopement.
2013-03-16 06:41:21 PM
1 votes:
So an individual can get a free pass to act however they want due to some misplaced genes?   Well hot damn.

There are certain social norms -- and when I'm paying $100 dollars for a meal, I expect it to be quiet or at a normal dinner level of noise. I'm pretty sure the parents of these "special kids" would get pissed if i showed up outside their house at 3am and started making all sorts of retarded noises.

parents that parade their sex trophies around and expect everyone to fall to their knees and love the kid is bad enough... doing the same thing with a mentally retarded child is even worse. yes, I said mentally retarded, you know one of the original words before some feel good wussy society made the term politically incorrect because it hurt their dumb feelings.

What's next? we aren't going to call cancer cancer anymore?   "oh mr johnson you don't have cancer you just have a 1lb mass of free thinking cells going rogue in your body"
2013-03-16 06:22:20 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: WTFdoesitmatter: Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.

You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.

The problem is that too many parents find it far easier to let their precious, neurodiverse little snowflake make an ass out of himself without setting down boundaries and enforcing rules. Autistic kids who grow up like that will have a hard time adjusting to displaying and dealing with emotions as an adult. My ex-brother in law is a great example of this. 300 pound autistic with the mind of a five year old, who all through his life had his parents give him everything he wanted when he acted out. Only now he's no longer the little boy, he's a 6'3, 300 pound juggernaut.

As a counter to your previous post, yes, there was a lot of autism in your Dad's day as well. Only they were labeled as 'tards or "eccentric", or they were thrown in jail as delinquents and trouble makers.


I'm totally agreeing with you about the parenting aspect of autistic children. Obviously, in many severe cases of autism the affected patient will never be able to function normally as a member of society. However, as the spectrum continues to widen, what were once considered mild behavioral or social issues and were dealt with as such, are now dealt with by many parents as a crippling disability/universal excuse for everything their precious snowflake ever does wrong in their life.

I realize that having taken one semester of educational psychology in college doesn't count for much in the long run, but from my personal experiences, one thing stood out from the course and still does to this day - The best way to keep someone handicapped is to allow them to act handicapped.
2013-03-16 06:17:14 PM
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

This


The only problem ends up being that autistic people can't tell what is appropriate or not.
The logical solution would be to keep them from ever being in those situations in the first place.
2013-03-16 06:15:33 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick: The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!

As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.


This, this, this, and THIS.

So many precious snowflakes in this thread, we might as well go skiing.
2013-03-16 06:12:59 PM
1 votes:
hmmmm.  i'm going WAAAY out on a limb here, subby.  I agreed with you at first glance, but after reading the entire article, I felt she was being rather fair and balanced.  She acknowledged all sides, for which she gets kudos.  From your headline, I was expecting something far more selfish from the mother.
2013-03-16 06:09:49 PM
1 votes:
Popcorn Johnny

You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

So long as we continue to villify people who respond appropriately to being disturbed, the vast majority of Americans will believe that "the right thing to do" is to do nothing at all. 

And the cycle perpetuates.
2013-03-16 06:08:36 PM
1 votes:

MeanJean: The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


very few, especially at college, would mind a short delay. this woman's noisy obnoxious kid in a public restaurant is another matter. casual eatery or not junior going off is annoying.
2013-03-16 06:01:19 PM
1 votes:
If it is a truly public place, like a park or city street, then people should tolerate it, or embrace being a jerk and complain to the parent, or go somewhere else.  But, If it is a restaurant or movie theater, then complain to the manager.  If the manager won't set and enforce standards you find acceptable, then ask for your money back and don't support their business in the future.  Simple.
2013-03-16 05:57:32 PM
1 votes:

aesirx: WTFdoesitmatter: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

THIS.

If they can't handle being out in most public places, don't subject others to their actions.

Sorry, but "He's autistic, deal with it" will not fly with me.

from the article, the mother makes conscious decision to NOT go to MOST public spaces. she usually goes to SPECIFIC public spaces where rowdy behavior is ok. She doesn't go to opening night of a new Batman movie, she goes to some crappy kids movie at 10am.

your personal situation is your own deal; can't you agree that THIS mother is fair and reasonable?


No kidding.  Because we've seen how people with developmental disabilities act on opening night of new Batman movies.
2013-03-16 05:56:07 PM
1 votes:
As a person with Aspergers, I really don't know how to deal with autistic people being around in public. Sure, you could say they are entitled to the same rights as a normal person, but the problem is, they really aren't. I know this first hand. Can't handle being around people, so I keep myself away from public places when I can. If you have an autistic child, taking them anywhere is probably a bad idea from a logical standpoint. Either find a specialized babysitter or a family member who can deal with the child.
As for autistic adults, you probably shouldn't be out in public or in situations you can't escape from. Your stress will build up, and you will enter your "safe mode" once it hits the breaking point, which may cause distress to normal people nearby. That's just a fact of life for those with Aspergers or autism. It's better to stay more isolated, since with the advent of the Internet, you can control when and how you socialize if you need to.
Of course, these are from pure logical standpoints, and may not apply to one or more people with autism. I am not a professional.
2013-03-16 05:55:09 PM
1 votes:

chrylis: Most of the rest of what you've described is simply social skills that he should have been taught and learned, but this one is a lot more difficult: It can be very hard for an autistic person to tell how loud his voice is. Extensive practice can go a long way, but it's generally not fair to classify speaking too loudly (or too softly) as intentional.


When my father was still alive and actually would take control of the situation, it wasn't a problem to this extent. Although he is technically an adult, his childish behavior is practically egged on by the main adult in his life. But yeah, the volume isn't the main issue, it's the content behind the volume. Nobody wants to be in a public space and have to listen to some weirdo loudly talking about furry porn, or be at a Thanksgiving dinner and have someone jump up, throw plates and wave knives around at them.

chrylis: Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads. There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.


The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.
2013-03-16 05:41:02 PM
1 votes:
Cup_O_Jo:

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lum ...

 I don't think it is fair to classify mental and physical disabilities as the same thing. But, I think the reason why people lump them together is to remind themselves that if something happens that they may deem inconvenient it is a result of something beyond the person's control. It doesn't always come from a disrespectful place. It comes from the desire to accommodate situations that we might not encounter by ourselves, and to adjust to diverse needs when possible.

I also wanted to state that visible physical disability gives people clearer direction in terms of what they can expect. You see a wheelchair, you know this person has mobility issues, and thus, if you are not a jerk, you don't roll your eyes when they have to be loaded on the train. In the case of some physical disabilities and mental issues, one cannot tell; which leads to more sticky situations.
2013-03-16 05:37:57 PM
1 votes:

MeanJean: AndyChrist420

I'm glad that people are reasonable where you are, but where I am, people biatch and complain about the accommodations she needs. Her parents, for starters, who actually mock her disability. Her stupid coont of a college  roommate who wouldn't even move the vacuum where she could reach it and use it and gave her shiat for having her side of the room being messy despite the fact that its difficult for her to clean it. As well as the college maintenance crews who shovel the snow sidewalks and the stairs outside her dorm but NOT THE DAMN WHEELCHAIR RAMP  because apparently they just can't be bothered despite her e-mailing them about it. And no, she isn't pushy in asking for accommodations, she's extremely polite.

So yes, maybe I overreacted a bit, but kxs401's snide remark about how "everything is for everyone" is ruining humanity kind of hit a nerve.


I can see where you're coming from, but comparing your friends legitimate need for assistance from others is miles away from expecting others to tolerate behavior not generally accepted in polite society.

/went to college in San Diego, never had a problem with snow.
//many colleges have wheelchair accessible, single dorm rooms
///make your choices wisely
2013-03-16 05:35:21 PM
1 votes:
The parents named the kid "Jonah". I think that explains it all.

These are like people who can't control their barking dog late at night and ask for "understanding".

/DNRTF-comments---has anyone said what I just did yet?
2013-03-16 05:35:16 PM
1 votes:

PsiChick: The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!

As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.


www.elvex.com

Everywhere I go I am ready and you better believe I don't give a crap how people look at me
2013-03-16 05:32:41 PM
1 votes:

Zippercole: People at restaurants who are more annoying, distracting, and difficult to eat around than autistic children:

-People with poor hygiene (noticeable dandruff, offensive body odor, flip flops and tank tops, bad acne)
-Obese people (i'd rather watch a dog taking a shiat than a fat person shove his face while I'm eating)
-Old people with no manners who think it's okay to be rude to anyone born after 1950 (like the guy referenced at the beginning)
-Women who dress in clothing that is WAY more revealing than it needs to be (boobs falling out, 9 inch skirts, usually older women past their prime)
-Drunk people (laugh way too loud, yell way too loud, curse inappropriately, try to socialize with strangers trying to eat)

Kids will be kids.  Those with special needs often don't know any better.  It's not like parents are encouraging disruptive behavior; usually they are doing their best to control it. Disruptive children are low on the totem pole of restaurant patrons who are difficult to be around.  I don't understand what people have against kids that they DON'T have against the loud drunk cursing at the television.  It's peculiar how people can laugh-off or excuse public drunkenness, poor hygiene in public, and obnoxiously rude behavior, but get upset when children make a bit of noise.


Could we just say that aberrant behavior affecting others nearby is unacceptable? Drunk, autistic, or otherwise?
2013-03-16 05:30:47 PM
1 votes:

manimal2878: So basically they are special when it benefits them, but at all other times must be treated as normal?


Iplaybass: I stopped reading at "impossible standards of behavior ". Those standards weren't impossible when I was a kid. They aren't impossible now.


BubbaJones: IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.


All of these. Had I acted out like that in public, my parents would have made me wish I hadn't.
2013-03-16 05:26:10 PM
1 votes:
I stopped reading at "impossible standards of behavior ". Those standards weren't impossible when I was a kid. They aren't impossible now.
2013-03-16 05:15:27 PM
1 votes:

rugman11: PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.

Our local theatre has started introducing special showings for the "differently abled."  They keep the house lights up a little more and the sound down a little bit, while also allowing kids to move around and make noise.  They've apparently gotten good feedback.

http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/14/2556527/warren-to-screen-movie-for- ki ds.html


Yeah, one near us had  Mommy Matinees when mine were little. Same idea. Mostly it was great, once they got an actual mom to pick which movies were appropriate for such a showing. Monster? Really?
2013-03-16 05:14:54 PM
1 votes:

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


Not just you.  The "oh, sorry" was supposed to be the end of it.  Beyond that he doesn't care about details.
2013-03-16 05:14:23 PM
1 votes:

Dragonflew: Cup_O_Jo: No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.

So you would be just fine with a mentally retarded person being insulted by being called "disabled" because it included people like you?


I saw a documentary a while ago of paraplegics sports and one of the guys was saying he hated when people called it the Special Olympics because, according to him, "he's not a farking retard" he just couldn't use his legs.
2013-03-16 05:10:51 PM
1 votes:

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


No, it's not just you. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way.

I do not. I think it was extremely rude.
2013-03-16 05:10:19 PM
1 votes:

thenumber5: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


I really get annoyed at people with a "Visible Disability" think they are more deserving of help and basic compassion then someone with a non-visible disability

if i say i cant do something because this is a my leg/knee is hurting a lot that day, i get "O you have a bad limp sorry"

if i say i cant doing something because my anxiety is currently at 11 and it is taken every fiber of my being to not shut down, i get told "Suck it up"


Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lump them all in together. See today I gave you a leg up. I gave you an illness instead of a disability. TADAH.

BTW I am also responding to Mr. Angry=ReverendJynx get the fark over yourself man. You are reading way to much in to shiat.
2013-03-16 05:09:49 PM
1 votes:

WTFdoesitmatter: What makes it worse is that he refuses to exercise control over the volume of his voice


Most of the rest of what you've described is simply social skills that he should have been taught and learned, but this one is a lot more difficult: It can be very hard for an autistic person to tell how loud his voice is.  Extensive practice can go a long way, but it's generally not fair to classify speaking too loudly (or too softly) as intentional.
2013-03-16 04:52:43 PM
1 votes:
Matthew Keene: Here's a question to ponder. You're out in public, and some autistic crotchfruit smacks you hard from behind, and the mother tells you to deal with it because her child is just 'acting out.' What would you do about it?

I'd be happy it wasn't the entirely healthy 18 year old who ran me over with her car last year (and ran); I'd look at the mother and await what would likely be a red-faced apology (with acceptance) and reflect on the luck of having a healthy, grown child of my own

why? am i supposed to bend down with bared teeth and growl or something?

I've been "smacked hard from behind" in public by grown men who seemed to think i'd appreciate it......
2013-03-16 04:48:46 PM
1 votes:
If you can't control your crotchfruit, don't burden the rest of society with them.  Leave them at home.
2013-03-16 04:48:43 PM
1 votes:

ruetheday69: ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.

I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.

No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.

Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.

Except... MS screws with your brain too. My mother has MS and she has severe brain lesions to the point where her memory is horrible and stuff like that.


Then I guess MS isn't superior is it?

Now you can go fark yourself for proving my point.
2013-03-16 04:47:31 PM
1 votes:
I really think we need to take a lesson from ancient Sparta. Their compassion for retards was the stuff of legend.
2013-03-16 04:39:51 PM
1 votes:

ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.

I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.

No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.

Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.


Except... MS screws with your brain too. My mother has MS and she has severe brain lesions to the point where her memory is horrible and stuff like that.
2013-03-16 04:37:06 PM
1 votes:

imfallen_angel: My daughter is very deep in the autistic range.. she doesn't speak and public outings are very limited.

We manage to go to restaurants twice this year and things actually went very well.  We explained to the restaurant that we needed to be seated close to the washroom and out of people's way so that she may not try to reach and grab someone IF she is "triggered" by something.

Never had an issue.

If someone was to give me stupid attitude, I'd simply reply that "she's handicapped, what's your excuse".


Thanks for being a good parent. Farkied.
2013-03-16 04:35:59 PM
1 votes:

Cup_O_Jo: No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.


So you would be just fine with a mentally retarded person being insulted by being called "disabled" because it included people like you?
2013-03-16 04:35:26 PM
1 votes:

Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?


Sadly yes because their child is the most important thing int heir universe and you mean nothing in comparison. It sucks but I tend to rely on both sunglasses and earphones everywhere because of those issues. We have a way to attempting to cope though and the child is still learning to do so. A bit of grace for the kids and none for the parents that aren't helping.

Try headphones.
2013-03-16 04:33:33 PM
1 votes:
My daughter is very deep in the autistic range.. she doesn't speak and public outings are very limited.

We manage to go to restaurants twice this year and things actually went very well.  We explained to the restaurant that we needed to be seated close to the washroom and out of people's way so that she may not try to reach and grab someone IF she is "triggered" by something.

Never had an issue.

If someone was to give me stupid attitude, I'd simply reply that "she's handicapped, what's your excuse".
2013-03-16 04:28:13 PM
1 votes:

WTFdoesitmatter: autistic, and at age 28, he is more obnoxious to deal with than almost any run of the mill 6 year old child in public. What makes it worse is that he refuses to exercise control over the volume of his voice, and constantly makes very disturbing, violent, and sexual comments and actions


What's his Fark handle?
2013-03-16 04:28:02 PM
1 votes:
We all have to deal with a-holes, just because someone is autistic doesn't mean they are free from this blight.  The woman said it herself, the vast majority of people understand an accept what it means to raise an autistic child.  "But I think we can do better"  Yes, that can be said for everything
2013-03-16 04:27:36 PM
1 votes:

ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.

I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.


No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.
2013-03-16 04:26:26 PM
1 votes:

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


i.imgur.com
2013-03-16 04:26:11 PM
1 votes:
Fark: where regular kids irritate the hell out of us, but ones with developmental disorders don't.

I wonder how people will rect if autistic adults smoked in bars while tipping only at 10%.
2013-03-16 04:24:28 PM
1 votes:
So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?
2013-03-16 04:23:16 PM
1 votes:

miniflea: Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.
2013-03-16 04:20:14 PM
1 votes:
These here so-called autistics, they collect nice fat government checks and then sit on their behinds, and what does the working man get? More taxes. Let's take back our country!

/yes that's sarcasm
2013-03-16 04:18:48 PM
1 votes:

tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?


To physically handicapped. It takes us back to the dark ages when polio patients,mentally retarded,and the like were locked away in the mental hospital which is 3rd complete different thing.
2013-03-16 04:16:18 PM
1 votes:

L.D. Ablo: The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.


I like the cut of your jib.
2013-03-16 04:15:09 PM
1 votes:

lucksi: BTW, can you test for autism before the kid is born?


Nope. It's a developmental disorder. While there is genetic inheritance and it does run in family there is no Autistic Gene.
/A recent therory states that the problem is that the kid is too hypersensitive and is unable to block out sensory data at a young age and this causes their problems as they are dealing with sensory overload when they should be developing normally.
2013-03-16 04:13:36 PM
1 votes:
I, too, am retarded and therefore have the right to do whatever the fark I want in public. Better hide them titties biatches.
2013-03-16 04:12:53 PM
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


This
2013-03-16 04:10:51 PM
1 votes:

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


Actually my dad did that once with my Autistic brother when he started to act up before we realized that he was Autistic. Even after he did threaten to take us outside and we wouldn't get to eat.
2013-03-16 04:09:50 PM
1 votes:

The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!


Seconded.
2013-03-16 03:38:04 PM
1 votes:

whistleridge: This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?

I got one warning, then I got hauled to the bathroom and got a firm spanking. One memorable time, the restaurant applauded as I and a friend were hauled away to our fates (it struck home...i never misbehaved in public again). 

I'm pretty sure any parents who did that today would have CPS called on them. I'm not advocating one way or the other, just noting that times, and perspectives, change.


Yeah, I think expectations on kids to learn to behave in a civilized manner was much higher back then.
2013-03-16 03:08:25 PM
1 votes:

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


My parents had to take me for a walk outside a f*cking Papa Ginos (NE pizza chain) because I would not stop crying when I realized we were here for pizza and the pizza wasn't here yet.

It was an awkward 25th birthday party.
 
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