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(Slate)   "I'm sorry my autistic child is acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it"   (slate.com) divider line 429
    More: Interesting, acting out, sensitivity training  
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18015 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2013 at 4:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-16 05:26:10 PM
I stopped reading at "impossible standards of behavior ". Those standards weren't impossible when I was a kid. They aren't impossible now.
 
2013-03-16 05:28:03 PM

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.
 
2013-03-16 05:30:07 PM

BubbaJones: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.


if your going out to somewhere where people take there children for your Anniversary, i feel sorry for your partner
 
2013-03-16 05:30:39 PM
People at restaurants who are more annoying, distracting, and difficult to eat around than autistic children:

-People with poor hygiene (noticeable dandruff, offensive body odor, flip flops and tank tops, bad acne)
-Obese people (i'd rather watch a dog taking a shiat than a fat person shove his face while I'm eating)
-Old people with no manners who think it's okay to be rude to anyone born after 1950 (like the guy referenced at the beginning)
-Women who dress in clothing that is WAY more revealing than it needs to be (boobs falling out, 9 inch skirts, usually older women past their prime)
-Drunk people (laugh way too loud, yell way too loud, curse inappropriately, try to socialize with strangers trying to eat)

Kids will be kids.  Those with special needs often don't know any better.  It's not like parents are encouraging disruptive behavior; usually they are doing their best to control it. Disruptive children are low on the totem pole of restaurant patrons who are difficult to be around.  I don't understand what people have against kids that they DON'T have against the loud drunk cursing at the television.  It's peculiar how people can laugh-off or excuse public drunkenness, poor hygiene in public, and obnoxiously rude behavior, but get upset when children make a bit of noise.
 
2013-03-16 05:30:47 PM

manimal2878: So basically they are special when it benefits them, but at all other times must be treated as normal?


Iplaybass: I stopped reading at "impossible standards of behavior ". Those standards weren't impossible when I was a kid. They aren't impossible now.


BubbaJones: IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.


All of these. Had I acted out like that in public, my parents would have made me wish I hadn't.
 
2013-03-16 05:31:26 PM

thenumber5: BubbaJones: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.

if your going out to somewhere where people take there children for your Anniversary, i feel sorry for your partner


Except that entitled mothers like the one in TFA are starting to bring their kids to places where they don't belong.
 
2013-03-16 05:32:41 PM

Zippercole: People at restaurants who are more annoying, distracting, and difficult to eat around than autistic children:

-People with poor hygiene (noticeable dandruff, offensive body odor, flip flops and tank tops, bad acne)
-Obese people (i'd rather watch a dog taking a shiat than a fat person shove his face while I'm eating)
-Old people with no manners who think it's okay to be rude to anyone born after 1950 (like the guy referenced at the beginning)
-Women who dress in clothing that is WAY more revealing than it needs to be (boobs falling out, 9 inch skirts, usually older women past their prime)
-Drunk people (laugh way too loud, yell way too loud, curse inappropriately, try to socialize with strangers trying to eat)

Kids will be kids.  Those with special needs often don't know any better.  It's not like parents are encouraging disruptive behavior; usually they are doing their best to control it. Disruptive children are low on the totem pole of restaurant patrons who are difficult to be around.  I don't understand what people have against kids that they DON'T have against the loud drunk cursing at the television.  It's peculiar how people can laugh-off or excuse public drunkenness, poor hygiene in public, and obnoxiously rude behavior, but get upset when children make a bit of noise.


Could we just say that aberrant behavior affecting others nearby is unacceptable? Drunk, autistic, or otherwise?
 
2013-03-16 05:34:56 PM
 Jonah, who has autism, was very excited about the imminent arrival of his hamburger and french fries, so he was acting as he does when he's happy: bouncing in his seat, clapping his hands, and vocalizing a mishmash of squawks and catchphrases from his favoriteSesame Street videos.

Your son does not have autism. He's a 'tard.
 
2013-03-16 05:35:16 PM

PsiChick: The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!

As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.


www.elvex.com

Everywhere I go I am ready and you better believe I don't give a crap how people look at me
 
2013-03-16 05:35:21 PM
The parents named the kid "Jonah". I think that explains it all.

These are like people who can't control their barking dog late at night and ask for "understanding".

/DNRTF-comments---has anyone said what I just did yet?
 
2013-03-16 05:36:40 PM

rosemary's baby daddy: PsiChick: The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!

As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.

[www.elvex.com image 350x326]

Everywhere I go I am ready and you better believe I don't give a crap how people look at me


Threads like this have me considering an investment in some good noise-canceling phones.
 
2013-03-16 05:37:57 PM

MeanJean: AndyChrist420

I'm glad that people are reasonable where you are, but where I am, people biatch and complain about the accommodations she needs. Her parents, for starters, who actually mock her disability. Her stupid coont of a college  roommate who wouldn't even move the vacuum where she could reach it and use it and gave her shiat for having her side of the room being messy despite the fact that its difficult for her to clean it. As well as the college maintenance crews who shovel the snow sidewalks and the stairs outside her dorm but NOT THE DAMN WHEELCHAIR RAMP  because apparently they just can't be bothered despite her e-mailing them about it. And no, she isn't pushy in asking for accommodations, she's extremely polite.

So yes, maybe I overreacted a bit, but kxs401's snide remark about how "everything is for everyone" is ruining humanity kind of hit a nerve.


I can see where you're coming from, but comparing your friends legitimate need for assistance from others is miles away from expecting others to tolerate behavior not generally accepted in polite society.

/went to college in San Diego, never had a problem with snow.
//many colleges have wheelchair accessible, single dorm rooms
///make your choices wisely
 
2013-03-16 05:38:23 PM
"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.



He let you off the hook the first time, lady. Not everybody wants to hear your Lifetime Network story of woe and overcoming adversity in this cruel cold world.
 
2013-03-16 05:40:13 PM

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


THIS
 
2013-03-16 05:41:02 PM
Cup_O_Jo:

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lum ...

 I don't think it is fair to classify mental and physical disabilities as the same thing. But, I think the reason why people lump them together is to remind themselves that if something happens that they may deem inconvenient it is a result of something beyond the person's control. It doesn't always come from a disrespectful place. It comes from the desire to accommodate situations that we might not encounter by ourselves, and to adjust to diverse needs when possible.

I also wanted to state that visible physical disability gives people clearer direction in terms of what they can expect. You see a wheelchair, you know this person has mobility issues, and thus, if you are not a jerk, you don't roll your eyes when they have to be loaded on the train. In the case of some physical disabilities and mental issues, one cannot tell; which leads to more sticky situations.
 
2013-03-16 05:41:39 PM
The problem seems to be that some parents desperately want their developmentally-challenged kids to be "normal" in the worst possible way. So they attempt to "socialize" them at every opportunity.

The problem is that these social situations the kids are dragged to are extremely uncomfortable for them to deal with  - think of the most boring things you have had to deal with, but, of course you have the self-control NOT to let it be known. (E.g. a Catholic Wedding with the high mass included - you have to be polite to those who invited you, but, damn! it's BORING and goes on-and-on!)

However, some of these poor kids look at these social engagements as pure torture. They just want to be left in their own little world, in their own thoughts, repetitively playing with their simple toys, but they have to be made to sit still, be quiet and go along with everyone else.  And they will act out.

And forcing them into these situations to make mommy think they are normal won't teach them anything and is just plain cruel.
 
2013-03-16 05:44:04 PM

thenumber5: BubbaJones: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.

if your going out to somewhere where people take there children for your Anniversary, i feel sorry for your partner


My husband and I traditionally go to Cheeseburger in Paradise (a place we both love) every year for our anniversary, and it's a place where *gasp* people bring kids. We don't feel sorry for each other at all.
 
2013-03-16 05:47:13 PM
See, this problem can be solved by a little application of common sense.

Autistic children acting out is a problem that can be solved by what I like to call a deep cycle marine battery.
 
2013-03-16 05:50:58 PM

WorldCitizen: With most things in life, I think there is a middle ground. It is important to remember that neither side is not the center of the universe, not just your side. Don't get offended if your disabled child is being noisy, being messy in eating (in action and/or sound) or the like and someone perhaps really just wanting to have a quieter dinner moves to another area of the restaurant. At the same time, one should generally be able to expect that the general public not act like total assholes toward a disabled person.

Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie?  No.


Movies are too expensive. I would feel guilty if my son's vocalizing and all ruined the movie for others. He even annoyed the other ASD patrons at the sensory friendly films with his vocalizing.

We do go to football games, outdoor concerts and other events that tend to be noisy.
 
2013-03-16 05:51:15 PM
My cousin is severely autistic,and my  brother and his wife are taking my teething 5 month old niece on a plane today, so I'm getting a kick...

....I will say special needs can cause very difficult situations. However, I have worked with special needs kids and they can be disciplined and taught some types of appropriate behaviour. I don't believe special needs is free reign to be uncontrollably disruptive in public. Unfortunately, if someone is going be be excessively disruptive, then there are just some places they should not  be at for a lengthy amount of time.
 
2013-03-16 05:53:06 PM

mafiageek1980: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

THIS


This straw man has already been debunked.  Read the comments.
 
2013-03-16 05:54:30 PM

namegoeshere: So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?


Umm yeah. why not?
 
2013-03-16 05:55:09 PM

chrylis: Most of the rest of what you've described is simply social skills that he should have been taught and learned, but this one is a lot more difficult: It can be very hard for an autistic person to tell how loud his voice is. Extensive practice can go a long way, but it's generally not fair to classify speaking too loudly (or too softly) as intentional.


When my father was still alive and actually would take control of the situation, it wasn't a problem to this extent. Although he is technically an adult, his childish behavior is practically egged on by the main adult in his life. But yeah, the volume isn't the main issue, it's the content behind the volume. Nobody wants to be in a public space and have to listen to some weirdo loudly talking about furry porn, or be at a Thanksgiving dinner and have someone jump up, throw plates and wave knives around at them.

chrylis: Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads. There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.


The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.
 
2013-03-16 05:55:36 PM
I get that the headline says "special needs," but the thrust of the article (I didn't read it all, but scanned) was primarily about autistic people, right? So why use a pic of a kid with Downs?
 
2013-03-16 05:56:07 PM
As a person with Aspergers, I really don't know how to deal with autistic people being around in public. Sure, you could say they are entitled to the same rights as a normal person, but the problem is, they really aren't. I know this first hand. Can't handle being around people, so I keep myself away from public places when I can. If you have an autistic child, taking them anywhere is probably a bad idea from a logical standpoint. Either find a specialized babysitter or a family member who can deal with the child.
As for autistic adults, you probably shouldn't be out in public or in situations you can't escape from. Your stress will build up, and you will enter your "safe mode" once it hits the breaking point, which may cause distress to normal people nearby. That's just a fact of life for those with Aspergers or autism. It's better to stay more isolated, since with the advent of the Internet, you can control when and how you socialize if you need to.
Of course, these are from pure logical standpoints, and may not apply to one or more people with autism. I am not a professional.
 
2013-03-16 05:56:23 PM
It's too bad I have Changnesia and will forget the great advice the author gave.
 
2013-03-16 05:56:35 PM

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


You're in luck -- this already exists.  Look for the codeword "Tapout."  You can also look for a Bluetooth device lodged in the subject's ear in inappropriate situations.
 
2013-03-16 05:57:32 PM

aesirx: WTFdoesitmatter: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

THIS.

If they can't handle being out in most public places, don't subject others to their actions.

Sorry, but "He's autistic, deal with it" will not fly with me.

from the article, the mother makes conscious decision to NOT go to MOST public spaces. she usually goes to SPECIFIC public spaces where rowdy behavior is ok. She doesn't go to opening night of a new Batman movie, she goes to some crappy kids movie at 10am.

your personal situation is your own deal; can't you agree that THIS mother is fair and reasonable?


No kidding.  Because we've seen how people with developmental disabilities act on opening night of new Batman movies.
 
2013-03-16 05:58:53 PM
Hit other people's kids. Those that can't be taught can still be trained.
 
2013-03-16 05:58:58 PM

WTFdoesitmatter: The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.


On one hand, we have thousands of Physicians encompassing everything from Neonatology, Endocrinology, Neurology, Child Psychiatry; scientists of numerous disciplines with hard evidence, and decades of epidemiological and public health research which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before, and improved education at the Family Provider level at identification and intervention.

On the other hand, we have random internet guy who says it's a conspiracy.

randomdrake.com

I do applaud you for steering clear of the "Vaccines cause autism" derp, though.
 
2013-03-16 06:01:19 PM
If it is a truly public place, like a park or city street, then people should tolerate it, or embrace being a jerk and complain to the parent, or go somewhere else.  But, If it is a restaurant or movie theater, then complain to the manager.  If the manager won't set and enforce standards you find acceptable, then ask for your money back and don't support their business in the future.  Simple.
 
2013-03-16 06:03:46 PM

hardinparamedic: On one hand, we have thousands of Physicians encompassing everything from Neonatology, Endocrinology, Neurology, Child Psychiatry; scientists of numerous disciplines with hard evidence, and decades of epidemiological and public health research which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before, and improved education at the Family Provider level at identification and intervention.

On the other hand, we have random internet guy who says it's a conspiracy.

I do applaud you for steering clear of the "Vaccines cause autism" derp, though.


Hell no, I don't believe that vaccines cause autism. Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.
 
2013-03-16 06:08:36 PM

MeanJean: The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


very few, especially at college, would mind a short delay. this woman's noisy obnoxious kid in a public restaurant is another matter. casual eatery or not junior going off is annoying.
 
2013-03-16 06:09:06 PM

WTFdoesitmatter: Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.


You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.

The problem is that too many parents find it far easier to let their precious, neurodiverse little snowflake make an ass out of himself without setting down boundaries and enforcing rules. Autistic kids who grow up like that will have a hard time adjusting to displaying and dealing with emotions as an adult. My ex-brother in law is a great example of this. 300 pound autistic with the mind of a five year old, who all through his life had his parents give him everything he wanted when he acted out. Only now he's no longer the little boy, he's a 6'3, 300 pound juggernaut.

As a counter to your previous post, yes, there was a lot of autism in your Dad's day as well. Only they were labeled as 'tards or "eccentric", or they were thrown in jail as delinquents and trouble makers.
 
2013-03-16 06:09:49 PM
Popcorn Johnny

You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

So long as we continue to villify people who respond appropriately to being disturbed, the vast majority of Americans will believe that "the right thing to do" is to do nothing at all. 

And the cycle perpetuates.
 
2013-03-16 06:11:44 PM

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


So what's your excuse?
 
2013-03-16 06:12:11 PM
Where it gets tricky is in the middle. What are reasonable expectations of behavior in public places? Like many autistic individuals, Jonah is virtually incapable of doing anything quietly. He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person. But what I keep coming back to is that community, by definition, is inclusive. Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone

No, you don't "get it".

If you "got it", you would realize that your inability to control your child is directly impacting everyone around you, and you are basically telling everyone there, "too bad for you"  because your child cannot stop yelling, bouncing, and clapping, and you lack the empathy for those around you to remove that child from the situation.

FFS, your wants do not trump everyone else's.
 
2013-03-16 06:12:45 PM
I realize that people have the right to eat in peace at a restaurant, but the thing that I find sad is that the old guy would be bothered enough to "Shhhhh" someone. When I'm dining out, it's usually a happy occasion because the family or friends are together and we're enjoying each other's company. And we also understand that other people are there to enjoy themselves as well. And sometimes that fun, festive atmosphere involves alcohol, loud jokes and laughs. It may interfere a bit with the conversations going on in my group, but so what? I'm happy and when others people in the room are happy too, even if it's noisy, it makes for a pleasant dining experience because it's nice to see others enjoying themselves.

Of course, if the noise is due to arguing or whatnot, I'd probably ask to be seated elsewhere, or I'd do whatever I could to leave as quickly as possible, but that certainly wasn't the case.
 
2013-03-16 06:12:59 PM
hmmmm.  i'm going WAAAY out on a limb here, subby.  I agreed with you at first glance, but after reading the entire article, I felt she was being rather fair and balanced.  She acknowledged all sides, for which she gets kudos.  From your headline, I was expecting something far more selfish from the mother.
 
2013-03-16 06:13:45 PM

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


This
 
2013-03-16 06:15:29 PM

hardinparamedic: which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before


To the extent of increased diagnoses, sure.  I'm not at all convinced that we're seeing a massive rise in the actual incidence of autistic characteristics.  As one particular example, American society has become dramatically less structured in the last 40 years or so, meaning that individuals who would have had no particular difficulty in a more clearly-defined social environment are having more trouble today.  It's similar to the lower diagnosed rate of dyslexia in countries that speak Romance languages even though the rates found in wide-scale random testing are about equal.
 
2013-03-16 06:15:33 PM

PsiChick: The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!

As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.


This, this, this, and THIS.

So many precious snowflakes in this thread, we might as well go skiing.
 
2013-03-16 06:17:14 PM

Warlordtrooper: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

This


The only problem ends up being that autistic people can't tell what is appropriate or not.
The logical solution would be to keep them from ever being in those situations in the first place.
 
2013-03-16 06:18:05 PM
If you are the parent of ANY child, you should know that your kid acts like a farking chimpanzee.

Sorry, but your "public" privileges are going to net you some input from your fellow humans.
 
2013-03-16 06:19:04 PM

WTFdoesitmatter: chrylis: Most of the rest of what you've described is simply social skills that he should have been taught and learned, but this one is a lot more difficult: It can be very hard for an autistic person to tell how loud his voice is. Extensive practice can go a long way, but it's generally not fair to classify speaking too loudly (or too softly) as intentional.

When my father was still alive and actually would take control of the situation, it wasn't a problem to this extent. Although he is technically an adult, his childish behavior is practically egged on by the main adult in his life. But yeah, the volume isn't the main issue, it's the content behind the volume. Nobody wants to be in a public space and have to listen to some weirdo loudly talking about furry porn, or be at a Thanksgiving dinner and have someone jump up, throw plates and wave knives around at them.

chrylis: Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads. There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.

The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.


Fark no longer quotes only the highlighted text. Anyway...
We only see more autistic kids in public now because their parents aren't ashamed of them. We only have more diagnoses of autism because doctors stopped just labeling the kid retarded. As for ADD, we used to treat it as a behavior problem. It didn't help. Again, we see more kids with ADD because they aren't getting locked up.
 
2013-03-16 06:19:54 PM
Years ago I was at a fast food joint, enjoying my meal with my family when a bus pulled up from the state school (you know, that place where the mentally handicapped are basically locked away, and from the stories that I've heard, for everyone's own good).  I lost my appetite upon seeing them.  The one that caused me to instantly stop eating and leave was seeing a man who could not control his own drool and hand to constantly carry around a rag with him and leave his own tongue hanging out because of the constant drool.  Sickening to see any time, worse in a restaurant.  And, call me an asshole, but there are people who I honestly don't believe should be in public.

As for this mother, I learned in college that 10 adults sitting in a booth in a restaurant having dinner before hitting the bars is loud enough, is messy enough.  Making it two adults and eight children has to be hell on not just those around you, but also for the waitstaff.  Were the two mothers in TFA too good for McDonalds or Burger King?  You know, a place where kids aren't confined to a table and have a playground that they can go run around and play in?  Lady, you take your friend and combined eight kids to a place that has a waitstaff that brings you food, that already means that there are standards to which everyone obeys (tipping, not slapping the hot waitress on the ass as the delivers your drinks, please and thank you), and somehow you're taking these standards that are accepted by everyone, even children and calling them impossible standards.  How is keeping a low tone of voice an impossible standard?  Do you take your son to the library and then biatch at everyone around you when they ask you to be quiet?  If your son can't keep quiet in the movie theater, don't take him.  When I go to the movies I pay my money to see and listen to the movie, not to see the movie and hear a mixture of the movie and your son's noises.  But I'm sure you have your soap box ready to tell me how I need to understand that your son as every right to not just see that movie but also ruin the experience for everyone else by telling me that it's an impossible standard for any child to keep their pie hole shut.  Lady, if it really is impossible for you to do so, please, leave the brats at home.

Look, I have no children.  I'm 34 years old and married.  My wife and I can not have children (she has medical problems preventing it).  But incredibly, our lives are effected by children.  I live in the middle of a long row of apartment complexes.  I have to time my departure perfectly in the mornings because if I don't, I'm going to get caught behind school buses that must stop at each and every apartment building.  Even though the children don't cross the street, I'm not allowed to go around the school bus.  I've had multiple jobs where I had surprise over time because the job had to be done, but my coworker couldn't come in because of their kid (sick, injured, no sitter).  Worse was when I was a security guard.  On weekends there was only the need for one of use to be there at a time, but we couldn't leave until we had our relief.  My relief was a single mother who couldn't get her shiat together.  So I ended up working 20 hour shifts, and when things happened, who's ass was on the line?  Mine because I was the guy on duty and explaining that I worked a 20 hour shift, got four hours to go home, sleep, shower, shave, dress and return to work isn't an explanation, it's an excuse.  Being in public is just as bad.  When I was a kid I was told not to eavesdrop or listen to other conversations.  And in stores, I don't want to listen to your kids scream.  I know they want that toy and you told them no so now they're screaming and crying and making a scene.  Please deal with it.  Don't look at us like we're the bad guys.  We're not, we're victims of noise pollution that you created, and worse yet, we can't get away from it.  I can try going to the store while school's in session, but there's kids in the stores then.  At night, after 10 pm, amazingly, there are kids there as well.  How?  I don't farking know.  It makes me think little of you as a parent when I'm grocery shopping at 10pm on a Wednesday and you're there also with your school age kids.

ending rant...
 
2013-03-16 06:20:49 PM

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


I want that for my birthday.
 
2013-03-16 06:22:20 PM

hardinparamedic: WTFdoesitmatter: Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.

You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.

The problem is that too many parents find it far easier to let their precious, neurodiverse little snowflake make an ass out of himself without setting down boundaries and enforcing rules. Autistic kids who grow up like that will have a hard time adjusting to displaying and dealing with emotions as an adult. My ex-brother in law is a great example of this. 300 pound autistic with the mind of a five year old, who all through his life had his parents give him everything he wanted when he acted out. Only now he's no longer the little boy, he's a 6'3, 300 pound juggernaut.

As a counter to your previous post, yes, there was a lot of autism in your Dad's day as well. Only they were labeled as 'tards or "eccentric", or they were thrown in jail as delinquents and trouble makers.


I'm totally agreeing with you about the parenting aspect of autistic children. Obviously, in many severe cases of autism the affected patient will never be able to function normally as a member of society. However, as the spectrum continues to widen, what were once considered mild behavioral or social issues and were dealt with as such, are now dealt with by many parents as a crippling disability/universal excuse for everything their precious snowflake ever does wrong in their life.

I realize that having taken one semester of educational psychology in college doesn't count for much in the long run, but from my personal experiences, one thing stood out from the course and still does to this day - The best way to keep someone handicapped is to allow them to act handicapped.
 
2013-03-16 06:24:41 PM

hardinparamedic: As a counter to your previous post, yes, there was a lot of autism in your Dad's day as well. Only they were labeled as 'tards or "eccentric", or they were thrown in jail as delinquents and trouble makers.


Ahh the good ol days!

Mostly kidding, but your line is pretty funny if you think they aren't still labeled as tards
 
2013-03-16 06:24:54 PM
A complete lack of corporal punishment for an entire generation has resulted in a society that can't say no to anybody.  Kid wants to act out?  Go ahead!  Want to talk in a movie?  Sure!  Cell phone in church?  Why not?

What's missing is that people who are parents now weren't beaten enough as kids, so they think it's normal to give a child whatever he/she wants the second it is demanded.  Notice how the woman in the article describes her son: "He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour. "

Translation:  He was making enough noise to wake up Bonnie Franklin.  What that woman considers "exceeding" is levels above what normal people consider exceeding.  But she's so wrapped up in herself she doesn't realize it.  She's looking at her son and saying "well, he's not biting people" and thinking he's behaving.  Everyone else is looking at her son and saying "that kid sounds like two elephants farking on top of a dying giraffe."
 
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