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(Slate)   "I'm sorry my autistic child is acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it"   (slate.com) divider line 429
    More: Interesting, acting out, sensitivity training  
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18030 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2013 at 4:03 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



429 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-03-16 12:40:47 PM  
This was very good, subby, and you are going to be rewarded in the thread. And you avoided what would have been overkill in selecting the Hero tag, a common rookie mistake. My one suggestion would have been to redirect the apologetic element in the first half of the headline, which diminishes some of the overall punch. Instead of apologizing on behalf of the child, I would have had the woman apologizing for the person being bothered by the child, e.g., "I'm sorry that you are bothered by my autistic child acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it." A minor tweak, to be sure, but it would have upped the rage at least a notch or two.
 
2013-03-16 12:44:09 PM  
You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.
 
2013-03-16 12:44:54 PM  
To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."
 
2013-03-16 12:54:09 PM  
Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.
 
2013-03-16 12:54:58 PM  

kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.


This!
 
2013-03-16 01:03:13 PM  

Pocket Ninja: This was very good, subby, and you are going to be rewarded in the thread. And you avoided what would have been overkill in selecting the Hero tag, a common rookie mistake. My one suggestion would have been to redirect the apologetic element in the first half of the headline, which diminishes some of the overall punch. Instead of apologizing on behalf of the child, I would have had the woman apologizing for the person being bothered by the child, e.g., "I'm sorry that you are bothered by my autistic child acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it." A minor tweak, to be sure, but it would have upped the rage at least a notch or two.


I disagree. The genius of subby's headline is that it starts out with a parent of an autistic child behaving reasonably for once. You get this false sense of hope, only to have it taken away.
 
Pud
2013-03-16 01:05:09 PM  
Giving the subby a +1 just to negate the negative vote. Listen to Pocket Ninja subby, he knows what he's talking about.

I was going to post something here from Guns and Roses about patience. But it would be foolish at this point.
 
2013-03-16 01:05:14 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it
 
Pud
2013-03-16 01:16:40 PM  

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


With me it was my mother. She had the odasity to get polio when she was 9. Selfish biatch (yea, that was sarcasm in case you missed it). I often got in "trouble" over the way I tended to deal with the comments (or looks).
Sometimes you are NOT the center of the world, and it isn't all that big a thing to just let another pass by.

/But that's just my opinion.
 
2013-03-16 01:33:22 PM  

Pud: I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it

With me it was my mother. She had the odasity to get polio when she was 9. Selfish biatch (yea, that was sarcasm in case you missed it). I often got in "trouble" over the way I tended to deal with the comments (or looks).
Sometimes you are NOT the center of the world, and it isn't all that big a thing to just let another pass by.

/But that's just my opinion.


"Audacity."
 
2013-03-16 01:39:17 PM  
Oh good, this thread again.

I still get a kick not my not autistic but still developmentally disabled 3 year old daughter behaves 1000x better than "normal" kids twice her age when we're out in public.

/she saves her meltdowns for home
 
2013-03-16 01:43:14 PM  
With most things in life, I think there is a middle ground. It is important to remember that neither side is not the center of the universe, not just your side. Don't get offended if your disabled child is being noisy, being messy in eating (in action and/or sound) or the like and someone perhaps really just wanting to have a quieter dinner moves to another area of the restaurant. At the same time, one should generally be able to expect that the general public not act like total assholes toward a disabled person.

Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie?  No.
 
2013-03-16 01:49:45 PM  

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.


So true.

/have the 5 and 7 yo niece and nephew this weekend
//took them out to eat and they marveled me with their appropriate behavior
///I'll have to give the brother in law and his wife some credit when we transfer them tomorrow
////I hope they had a good break
///reaffirmed that I did not belong having kids though
//although a night of watching Adventure Time was fun
 
Pud
2013-03-16 01:51:45 PM  

FloydA: Pud: I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it

With me it was my mother. She had the odasity to get polio when she was 9. Selfish biatch (yea, that was sarcasm in case you missed it). I often got in "trouble" over the way I tended to deal with the comments (or looks).
Sometimes you are NOT the center of the world, and it isn't all that big a thing to just let another pass by.

/But that's just my opinion.

"Audacity."


I stand corrected. *shrugs*
 
2013-03-16 02:30:30 PM  

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


There's a window washer lift outside. He can literally pull himself up.

/Bootstraps and all that
 
2013-03-16 02:56:32 PM  
Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?
 
2013-03-16 02:57:00 PM  
The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.
 
2013-03-16 03:02:42 PM  
even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night

Thursday is only a hair better than Friday, and 6pm is the exact time when everybody is there to eat.

Tuesday at 5 would be much better.
 
2013-03-16 03:08:25 PM  

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


My parents had to take me for a walk outside a f*cking Papa Ginos (NE pizza chain) because I would not stop crying when I realized we were here for pizza and the pizza wasn't here yet.

It was an awkward 25th birthday party.
 
2013-03-16 03:30:21 PM  

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


I got one warning, then I got hauled to the bathroom and got a firm spanking. One memorable time, the restaurant applauded as I and a friend were hauled away to our fates (it struck home...i never misbehaved in public again). 

I'm pretty sure any parents who did that today would have CPS called on them. I'm not advocating one way or the other, just noting that times, and perspectives, change.
 
2013-03-16 03:34:02 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


Why don't you go be special somewhere else.
 
2013-03-16 03:37:46 PM  

I_C_Weener: I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


i46.tinypic.com
 
2013-03-16 03:38:04 PM  

whistleridge: This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?

I got one warning, then I got hauled to the bathroom and got a firm spanking. One memorable time, the restaurant applauded as I and a friend were hauled away to our fates (it struck home...i never misbehaved in public again). 

I'm pretty sure any parents who did that today would have CPS called on them. I'm not advocating one way or the other, just noting that times, and perspectives, change.


Yeah, I think expectations on kids to learn to behave in a civilized manner was much higher back then.
 
2013-03-16 04:06:38 PM  
Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.
 
2013-03-16 04:08:15 PM  
Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces while handicapped people make handicapped faces...
 
2013-03-16 04:08:50 PM  

L.D. Ablo: The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.


Translated. "I have no idea how psychology works and get outraged when people try to correct me. Also I'm just as big of an asshole as think others are."
 
2013-03-16 04:09:50 PM  

The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!


Seconded.
 
2013-03-16 04:10:15 PM  
We have a place for these kinds of people: the engineering department.
 
2013-03-16 04:10:27 PM  
kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?
 
2013-03-16 04:10:51 PM  

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


Actually my dad did that once with my Autistic brother when he started to act up before we realized that he was Autistic. Even after he did threaten to take us outside and we wouldn't get to eat.
 
2013-03-16 04:12:30 PM  
BTW, can you test for autism before the kid is born?
 
2013-03-16 04:12:53 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


This
 
2013-03-16 04:13:20 PM  
I stopped at the picture of the kid.
Why did they use a pic of a kid with Down's syndrome?

Oh that's right, because Autistic kids look "normal".

//usually
 
2013-03-16 04:13:36 PM  
I, too, am retarded and therefore have the right to do whatever the fark I want in public. Better hide them titties biatches.
 
2013-03-16 04:14:33 PM  

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


Perhaps he should use the stairs.
 
2013-03-16 04:14:45 PM  
#1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.
 
2013-03-16 04:15:09 PM  

lucksi: BTW, can you test for autism before the kid is born?


Nope. It's a developmental disorder. While there is genetic inheritance and it does run in family there is no Autistic Gene.
/A recent therory states that the problem is that the kid is too hypersensitive and is unable to block out sensory data at a young age and this causes their problems as they are dealing with sensory overload when they should be developing normally.
 
2013-03-16 04:15:11 PM  
We need to attend to the needs of everyone afflicted and affected by this made up disease.
 
2013-03-16 04:16:18 PM  

L.D. Ablo: The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.


I like the cut of your jib.
 
2013-03-16 04:16:58 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.


To who?
 
2013-03-16 04:17:05 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


A wild guess. You're collecting SS and Medicare, and you're infuriated about soshulizm?
 
2013-03-16 04:17:47 PM  

jaylectricity: even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night

Thursday is only a hair better than Friday, and 6pm is the exact time when everybody is there to eat.

Tuesday at 5 would be much better.


Yep. 6-8 pm is prime time seating in many restaurants. Go there early or go there late on Wed - Sun if you have a kid that you know can't control themselves. I shouldn't have to put up with your kids issues. You're the one who decided to have a kid and you lost the crap shoot on making a good one, them's the risks that you undertook and you have to pay the price when you lose. Not me.
 
2013-03-16 04:18:42 PM  

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


Cancer causes autism and social disorders now?
 
2013-03-16 04:18:42 PM  

WorldCitizen: Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie? No.


Two solutions: 1) drive-in. 2) find a free family movie festival. They're full of kids, and kind of noisy, which is expected. And it's much easier to be tolerant of off behavior when it's a free second-run movie than a movie that you paid for and only just recently found time to go see.
 
2013-03-16 04:18:48 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?


To physically handicapped. It takes us back to the dark ages when polio patients,mentally retarded,and the like were locked away in the mental hospital which is 3rd complete different thing.
 
2013-03-16 04:19:56 PM  
He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.



Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?
 
2013-03-16 04:20:14 PM  
These here so-called autistics, they collect nice fat government checks and then sit on their behinds, and what does the working man get? More taxes. Let's take back our country!

/yes that's sarcasm
 
2013-03-16 04:20:17 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Are you familiar with the concept of a straw man fallacy?
 
2013-03-16 04:20:24 PM  

great_tigers: We need to attend to the needs of everyone afflicted and affected by this made up disease.


8/10, no, 9/10.  The last three words should be the equivalent of throwing fresh chum in the water.
 
2013-03-16 04:21:35 PM  

The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!


As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.
 
2013-03-16 04:21:46 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Hey now, we put them in basements, chained to the oil tank where it's a little warmer. Plus you can't hear them shuffling around like you can in an attic.

Also, participating isn't disrupting. I got squats calling in 26 minutes.
 
2013-03-16 04:22:30 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?


Come on, that's really wrong and offensive.

It's "To whom?"
 
2013-03-16 04:23:16 PM  

miniflea: Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.
 
2013-03-16 04:23:34 PM  

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


I don't think those with physical disabilities are the problem. (very sorry about your son, by the way)

It just seems like these days, almost every family has a kid with some kind of mental or behavioral issue. Right or wrong, sometimes others just get sick of hearing about it. While I'm sure most of these kids really have some issues, I think some of these "conditions of the day" get over diagnosed and so the ones who genuinely have them get lumped in with the ones who really just need some competent parenting.
 
2013-03-16 04:24:28 PM  
So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?
 
2013-03-16 04:25:07 PM  

Deece: miniflea: Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?

Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.


She was repeating herself. I would be like Ok get out of my face. Especially because 2 adults with 8 kids is ASININE.
 
2013-03-16 04:25:27 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.
 
2013-03-16 04:25:40 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


THIS.

If they can't handle being out in most public places, don't subject others to their actions.

My brother is autistic, and at age 28, he is more obnoxious to deal with than almost any run of the mill 6 year old child in public. What makes it worse is that he refuses to exercise control over the volume of his voice, and constantly makes very disturbing, violent, and sexual comments and actions (although I can assure you he has never gotten laid, at least by a human). Whenever I go to visit my mother, my wife and I pretty much refuse to go out in public with him because of his behavior. What makes it worse is that my mother figured out a long time ago that his disability can be exploited for sympathy from others and government money, so she has done next to nothing to deal with his condition. Due to the circumstances, my wife and I jointly made the decision that our now 8-month old daughter will never be left unsupervised by at least one of us around my mother's house, unless he is institutionalized and away from the home. So, it sucks that she will not get to have the week away with Grandma, but I would not risk my daughter being molested or killed.

Sorry, but "He's autistic, deal with it" will not fly with me.
 
2013-03-16 04:25:59 PM  

Deece: Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.


How much do you want to bet that her description of the events are a bit tilted in her favor? Perhaps even missing information or possibly understating her kids actions and\or overstating the other patrons actions.
 
2013-03-16 04:26:11 PM  
Fark: where regular kids irritate the hell out of us, but ones with developmental disorders don't.

I wonder how people will rect if autistic adults smoked in bars while tipping only at 10%.
 
2013-03-16 04:26:26 PM  

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-16 04:27:29 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To whom?


/FTFY
 
2013-03-16 04:27:36 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.

I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.


No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.
 
2013-03-16 04:27:36 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?


Nice. Beat me to this one.
 
2013-03-16 04:27:40 PM  
Let me get this straight. He hushed her kid, she told him it wouldn't work because the kid is autistic, he said sorry, she kept talking, he told her he understood her, she got angry.

How is he in the wrong at all here?

If I'm supposed to be understanding to autistic folks, she can try to be understanding of older folks. If she thought that was bad, my blind, decrepit grandfather could have her crying. Toughen up lady - he was short with you, not mean.
 
2013-03-16 04:28:02 PM  
We all have to deal with a-holes, just because someone is autistic doesn't mean they are free from this blight.  The woman said it herself, the vast majority of people understand an accept what it means to raise an autistic child.  "But I think we can do better"  Yes, that can be said for everything
 
2013-03-16 04:28:13 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: autistic, and at age 28, he is more obnoxious to deal with than almost any run of the mill 6 year old child in public. What makes it worse is that he refuses to exercise control over the volume of his voice, and constantly makes very disturbing, violent, and sexual comments and actions


What's his Fark handle?
 
2013-03-16 04:28:41 PM  
I'm sorry your daughter couldn't tolerate my disabled son smiling at her with both of his hands down his pants. I wish she wasn't a Nazi.
 
2013-03-16 04:29:21 PM  

namegoeshere: So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?


I will tolerate you dealing with it appropriately when it happens. If that means a few stern words at the table, taking the kid outside or even leaving the restaurant with the food to go and beating the little tyke within an inch of their life when you get home. Just don't do nothing and laughingly say that little kyle is being cute when he is actually being a disruptive little monster.

Is that too much to ask?
 
2013-03-16 04:29:51 PM  

namegoeshere: So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?


Absolutely!
 
2013-03-16 04:31:07 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.

I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.

No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.


Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.
 
2013-03-16 04:31:54 PM  

super_grass: What's his Fark handle?


Drew.
 
2013-03-16 04:32:12 PM  

Radioactive Ass: namegoeshere: So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?

I will tolerate you dealing with it appropriately when it happens. If that means a few stern words at the table, taking the kid outside or even leaving the restaurant with the food to go and beating the little tyke within an inch of their life when you get home. Just don't do nothing and laughingly say that little kyle is being cute when he is actually being a disruptive little monster.

Is that too much to ask?


The same do nothing that most parents of autism kids do?
 
2013-03-16 04:32:17 PM  
He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?
 
2013-03-16 04:32:27 PM  

great_tigers: namegoeshere: So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?

Absolutely!


Of the toddler yes, of the parents no.
 
2013-03-16 04:33:33 PM  
My daughter is very deep in the autistic range.. she doesn't speak and public outings are very limited.

We manage to go to restaurants twice this year and things actually went very well.  We explained to the restaurant that we needed to be seated close to the washroom and out of people's way so that she may not try to reach and grab someone IF she is "triggered" by something.

Never had an issue.

If someone was to give me stupid attitude, I'd simply reply that "she's handicapped, what's your excuse".
 
2013-03-16 04:33:48 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?

To physically handicapped. It takes us back to the dark ages when polio patients,mentally retarded,and the like were locked away in the mental hospital which is 3rd complete different thing.


Yup. Exactly this. I am hearing impaired and have been since my teens. I get a lot of bullshiat from people and lots of weird looks and since i am not 'typical' deaf as in nonverbal and sign language people are very confused and generally treat me like I have a mental disability.
 
2013-03-16 04:34:38 PM  
Over a few years, when our kids were younger, my wife and I tried to take our boys out to eat about 3 or 4 times but then just gave up. We'd take turns walking them around in front of the restaurant while he settled down, only to come back to cold food and the other one starting to go off about something only to switch places and eat alone anyway. Now they're 3 and 5 and actually get compliments from strangers about just how awesome and well behaved they are. I think people have much lower social standards these days. They're good kids, but they're not that good.
 
2013-03-16 04:34:46 PM  
I didn't take my kids to restaurants 1) until they were old enough to know how to behave and 2) unless they were well rested. I didn't impose on the global village to help socialize my child in a place where people go to relax and unwind.

The thought of actors screwing with patrons to prove some point is the height of DB'ery.  Let's all cheer for ourselves, we're all so special.
 
2013-03-16 04:35:03 PM  
Here's a question to ponder. You're out in public, and some autistic crotchfruit smacks you hard from behind, and the mother tells you to deal with it because her child is just 'acting out.' What would you do about it?
 
2013-03-16 04:35:22 PM  

Deece: Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.


I'm pretty sure "old guy" was embarrassed too. If you somehow missed the fact a kid was confined to a wheelchair (perhaps because he's seated at a table and his wheelchair is obscured from your vantage point) and asked them to stand up, and the mother pipes up to say "um, my son is a paraplegic", you'd be instantly redfaced and probably wouldn't be terribly amused to hear her follow up with  "...which means he has no use of legs, etc" in front of everyone. You'd feel like such a goddamn ass after the first gutpunch you don't want to hear anything else.

Not so much condoning it as thinking his reaction is somewhat normal.
 
2013-03-16 04:35:26 PM  

Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?


Sadly yes because their child is the most important thing int heir universe and you mean nothing in comparison. It sucks but I tend to rely on both sunglasses and earphones everywhere because of those issues. We have a way to attempting to cope though and the child is still learning to do so. A bit of grace for the kids and none for the parents that aren't helping.

Try headphones.
 
2013-03-16 04:35:59 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.


So you would be just fine with a mentally retarded person being insulted by being called "disabled" because it included people like you?
 
2013-03-16 04:36:18 PM  

great_tigers: The same do nothing that most parents of autism kids do?


With Autistic kids also jerking their leash is acceptable.

As long as it has a choke collar...
 
2013-03-16 04:36:29 PM  

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


So first I pictured a yellow star, and then Andy DIck. I'm pretty sure every part of my thought was offensive. I must have the autiz.
 
2013-03-16 04:37:06 PM  

imfallen_angel: My daughter is very deep in the autistic range.. she doesn't speak and public outings are very limited.

We manage to go to restaurants twice this year and things actually went very well.  We explained to the restaurant that we needed to be seated close to the washroom and out of people's way so that she may not try to reach and grab someone IF she is "triggered" by something.

Never had an issue.

If someone was to give me stupid attitude, I'd simply reply that "she's handicapped, what's your excuse".


Thanks for being a good parent. Farkied.
 
2013-03-16 04:37:07 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.


Let me start by saying that I'm not a cripple and, no matter what my brother calls me, not mentally retarded. So this is based on people I've known.

But there is a difference in the two. Someone who needs a cane or a wheelchair and can take care of themselves is flat out different than an adult who needs a caretaker. They aren't worth more as people, but it is different. And when you start saying everyone with some sort of disability is the same, you're implicitly telling some people (who work hard to stay independent) that they need to be taken care of, which is a reasonable reason to be insulted.
 
2013-03-16 04:38:52 PM  
If the world is for everyone and we need to share, then this mother needs to learn to share with arseholes
 
2013-03-16 04:39:18 PM  

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


It's not just you.
 
2013-03-16 04:39:43 PM  

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


"Freedom to" trumps "freedom from" because baby Jesus. Now STFU, hater!
 
2013-03-16 04:39:48 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


The faux outrage over your friend/son/mother's condition is petulant at best.  You are asking me to adjust my behavior and expectations because of your situation.  For the most part I am prepared to do that.  But what irks me is when there is no give or take on your side.  You (this is the generic "you") act like the entire world should kiss your ass because of your companion's disability.  The writer of the article lambasted the old man who told her he heard her the first time.  Was he to sit there and listen to her preach and whine and prattle, or could he not just tell her to STFU because he got the message she sent?  She wanted the stage in the restaurant, and he denied her.  That's what really ticked her off.  If you need to pack a wheelchair on the bus, just do it as efficiently and quietly as possible.  We all see you.  If your kid is autistic, we may not be able to differentiate between autism and the rest of the undisciplined, obnoxious crotchfruit that populate the planet.  Make a small effort to tone the kid down, rather the acting like he can do what he wants because of his "disability".

My nephew is is wheelchair bound paraplegic.  I enjoy taking him to hockey games.  We arrive early and leave a bit later to avoid the crowds.  I understand that it inconveniences some, but most also understand he needs a bit of space to maneuver.

Everyone needs to lighten up and remember that give and take goes both ways.  The writer of the article appears to be a taker.
 
2013-03-16 04:39:51 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.

I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.

No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.

Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.


Except... MS screws with your brain too. My mother has MS and she has severe brain lesions to the point where her memory is horrible and stuff like that.
 
2013-03-16 04:41:02 PM  

I May Be Crazy But...: Let me get this straight. He hushed her kid, she told him it wouldn't work because the kid is autistic, he said sorry, she kept talking, he told her he understood her, she got angry.

How is he in the wrong at all here?

If I'm supposed to be understanding to autistic folks, she can try to be understanding of older folks. If she thought that was bad, my blind, decrepit grandfather could have her crying. Toughen up lady - he was short with you, not mean.


Perhaps her son's lack of social skills isn't solely caused by his autism.
 
2013-03-16 04:41:25 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.



I really get annoyed at people with a "Visible Disability" think they are more deserving of help and basic compassion then someone with a non-visible disability

if i say i cant do something because this is a my leg/knee is hurting a lot that day, i get "O you have a bad limp sorry"

if i say i cant doing something because my anxiety is currently at 11 and it is taken every fiber of my being to not shut down, i get told "Suck it up"
 
2013-03-16 04:41:38 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: Oh good, this thread again.

I still get a kick not my not autistic but still developmentally disabled 3 year old daughter behaves 1000x better than "normal" kids twice her age when we're out in public.

/she saves her meltdowns for home


Heh, our 2.5 year old has her daycare person convinced she is perfect.  She wonders why we sometimes ask, "how did she behave today?"  It's because she saves it all up for home!  Finally, she acted out at daycare, and she said, "I think I understand why you ask the things you do, now."

In the end, it is because they know their parents and it is "safe" to let it loose.
 
2013-03-16 04:41:48 PM  
This autism spectrum gets wider and wider every day.
 
2013-03-16 04:42:07 PM  

Matthew Keene: Here's a question to ponder. You're out in public, and some autistic crotchfruit smacks you hard from behind, and the mother tells you to deal with it because her child is just 'acting out.' What would you do about it?


Well, I'm a psychopath. So I would probably "act out".

We cool?
 
2013-03-16 04:42:12 PM  

I_C_Weener: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

I'm sorry my cancer stricken son's wheel chair is taking up most of the elevator, perhaps you should deal with it


Maybe the lazy little brat can just walk.
 
2013-03-16 04:43:05 PM  
What is the big deal if he never gets to eat out at a restaurant or go to a movie? Have a nice family dinner at home and watch Netflix. It's not so terrible.
 
2013-03-16 04:43:25 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: Deece: miniflea: Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?

Yeah, angrily cutting off an embarrassed and apologetic mother mid-sentence is a perfectly reasonable response to having been in the same room as a developmentally challenged child who, in the course of having a good time, was a little louder than you would have preferred.

She was repeating herself. I would be like Ok get out of my face. Especially because 2 adults with 8 kids is ASININE.


That's what I was thinking.  I've seen my in-laws struggle with their four when it's both of them together.  I can't imagine handling 8 kids with 2 adults, especially when one of them is prone to loud outbursts.  That's just dumb.
 
2013-03-16 04:43:49 PM  
My friend's brother-in-law seems to be a high-functioning sociopath- he's very smart (he's an engineer, and he works with my husband at the lab); but he's also extremely moronic when it comes to interacting with people.  He's a leper at work, and while you feel sorry for him, when you meet him, it's VERY hard to like him.  He makes inappropriate comments to my friend (he went into the private room where she was nursing her son and started talking about her breasts the other day), and he charged a lot of porn to the company card and turned in on his statement.  He's a grown man, and has no friends and can't get a girlfriend.  It really is sad...but no one can stand to be around him.  However, his mother still babies him and begs everyone to spend time with him.

It's a sad reality, but people who don't function well in our society are going to be outcasts...and society won't change for them.  It's hard to be friends with someone who doesn't understand boundaries.  As a mother, I completely understand wanting people to like your child and being heartbroken when they don't...but as a member of society, it's impossible to welcome everyone in when they are so difficult to deal with.  It's a very thin line, and there's not a lot of help for people who have to walk it.
 
2013-03-16 04:43:56 PM  

Dragonflew: Cup_O_Jo: No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.

So you would be just fine with a mentally retarded person being insulted by being called "disabled" because it included people like you?


No, no, no, They are SUPERabled! Completely different. Don't you see how superior their disa-er alternative ability is? The tards have no cause to feel insulted when it is CLEAR for all to see that their disabilities are on the bottom.


How dare you suggest otherwise?
 
2013-03-16 04:47:31 PM  
I really think we need to take a lesson from ancient Sparta. Their compassion for retards was the stuff of legend.
 
2013-03-16 04:47:32 PM  
FTA-

Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

I'm gonna stop you right there and say that taking eight kids out to dinner is a disaster waiting to happen. A disaster for everyone else I mean. You are used to their behavior.


My 14-year-old son, Jonah, who has autism, was very excited about the imminent arrival of his hamburger and french fries,


I see what you did there. You could have just said "food" but describing the food makes it more childish and cute.


so he was acting as he does when he's happy: bouncing in his seat, clapping his hands, and vocalizing a mishmash of squawks and catchphrases from his favorite Sesame Street videos. He wasn't exceedingly loud,

Yes, he was. If it's loud enough to get the attention of others in the restaurant it's exceedingly loud.


but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.


No, it's because he was "exceedingly loud". Quietly bouncing in his seat wouldn't have attracted any attention.


"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.


Good for him! Someone needs to control your kid if you won't. You're inconsiderate of others.


Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah.


OMG! Someone did something politically incorrect in an attempt to get your kid to STFU since you weren't.


"I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.



Nobody cares why he's doing it or if he is "special" or any other reason. Have some consideration for other people and just get him to STFU.


My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.

You know what else is gratuitously nasty and drains the joy out of the evening for everyone who isn't you? That's right, your kid acting out in public.


I spent the rest of the dinner constantly shushing Jonah,


Give that guy a farking medal! He got you to control your child in public like every other considerate parent has had to do since forever. Hallelujah!


even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior.

The time and place are irrelevant. You should be teaching your other kids that being considerate of others is not reserved for only certain times or places. Whether there is one other person or a crowd is also irrelevant. If you think your children sitting quietly is an impossible standard of behavior you are an idiot. You should not take them out again until they are able to behave.

If I'm the only person there even in the middle of my meal I'm calling the waitress to box my food. Then the manager to tell them why I'm leaving.
 
2013-03-16 04:47:54 PM  

I May Be Crazy But...: ReverendJynxed: Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.

Let me start by saying that I'm not a cripple and, no matter what my brother calls me, not mentally retarded. So this is based on people I've known.

But there is a difference in the two. Someone who needs a cane or a wheelchair and can take care of themselves is flat out different than an adult who needs a caretaker. They aren't worth more as people, but it is different. And when you start saying everyone with some sort of disability is the same, you're implicitly telling some people (who work hard to stay independent) that they need to be taken care of, which is a reasonable reason to be insulted.


And you miss the point.

I'm not saying the disabilities aren't different. I'm merely calling the assholes on their belief they are somehow superior to these other individuals. Yes the problems are handled differently.

It is insulting to all when someone tries to claim superiority of another based on their level of disability. I never claimed they all needed to be taken care of the same way either, just treated the same with the same level of dignity and respect any one of these super-abled asshats demand. See the difference?
 
2013-03-16 04:48:18 PM  

basemetal: Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.

So true.

/have the 5 and 7 yo niece and nephew this weekend
//took them out to eat and they marveled me with their appropriate behavior
///I'll have to give the brother in law and his wife some credit when we transfer them tomorrow
////I hope they had a good break
///reaffirmed that I did not belong having kids though
//although a night of watching Adventure Time was fun


/
Finished the damn slashie pyramid for you...

I used to work with mentally challenged individuals and did so for 7 years.
They were either the most medically fragile or the people with the worst behavioral issues.
I see both sides of this issue in a very personal way. They do the the right to go in public. however with that right comes certain responsibilities.
They had to act appropriately.
Part of my job was to assist them with maintaining the correct social expectations when out to dinner or a movie.
If they couldn't act appropriately we would remove them from the situation.
They don't have the right to ruin every one else's evening.
Most of the time the evening out was pleasant and enjoyable for all.
With privileges and rights come responsibility. I don't know why this generation seems to have never learned this.
 
2013-03-16 04:48:40 PM  
Cup of Joe

#1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.


So autistic people don't have any impairments? That's news to me.

And why is it degrading to be placed under the same umbrella as the mentally disabled? Both of you need certain accommodations and both are entitled to the same legal protections.

And furthermore, not all autistic people are mentally retarded.

I may be crazy but

Someone who needs a cane or a wheelchair and can take care of themselves is flat out different than an adult who needs a caretaker.

Some physically disabled people need caretakers. Some mentally disabled people don't need caretakers and work hard to stay independent.
 
2013-03-16 04:48:43 PM  

ruetheday69: ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: ReverendJynxed: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.

I agree, it is demeaning. After all, their bodies work!

What, you have a "better" disability? Is your disability superior? I hope a helpful tard pushes your chair into traffic.

No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.

Funny thing is not everything is "working" according to the powers that be 9physical AND mental.) I'm just not going to say I'm better than someone else with disabilities because mine aren't as severe or limiting.

I'm not THAT much of an asshole even if you are.

Except... MS screws with your brain too. My mother has MS and she has severe brain lesions to the point where her memory is horrible and stuff like that.


Then I guess MS isn't superior is it?

Now you can go fark yourself for proving my point.
 
2013-03-16 04:48:46 PM  
If you can't control your crotchfruit, don't burden the rest of society with them.  Leave them at home.
 
2013-03-16 04:49:22 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Way to miss the point.  No one is complaining that they had to move so that a wheelchair could fit around a table, or had to be strapped down before the bus moves.  As a disabled person (wheelchair- 15 years and counting) I try my best not to inconvenience other people, like any normal member of a civilized society.  The reality is, being disabled, there are certain things you aren't ABLE to do.  It sucks balls, but you adapt, and find alternatives.  I've lived my life fine for 15+ years never climbing a step.  Ramps and elevators help, but if they aren't available, I go somewhere else.  If someone can't behave in an appropriate manner, go somewhere else.  Life isn't fair, deal with it.  I do.

/Your friend is not relevant to this situation
//I'm sure she appreciates you talking about her though
///how long till these little farkers are taking my parking space?
 
2013-03-16 04:50:55 PM  
Actually I've found that helicopter parents of autists are usually much more disruptive and annoying then their children. Well, not counting when the autist flies into a violent rage.
 
2013-03-16 04:50:55 PM  
I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.
 
2013-03-16 04:51:40 PM  
When the guy apologized she should have left it at that instead of trying to explain even more, just say thanks and go back to the table.  I like it that she is openly upset, hence the word-rage article, yet isn't smart enough to see her own shortcomings.  It's a clear demonstration of what a hypocritical coont she is.  She's no different than the guy who told her to stuff it, only less aggressive about it.  They both got upset when the other party didn't stop yaking.  She did make the first mistake, however, ergo coont status.

Having said that.  If the behavior can get sane people arrested for things like public indecency, public intoxication, public disturbance, etc, that same allotted behavior should not have general exceptions because people are mentally challenged.

Yeah, don't arrest them, fine the legal guardians.  The rules are there for a purpose, no one is exempt.  Do not do X in public.  This goes for everyone.  If you are a caretaker, you are legally responsible for your ward's activities.

Having a mental condition does not grant the poor soul extra privilege, nor does it grant extra privilege to the caretaker.  We shouldn't allow people to do as they will against public law because we pity them or their circumstances.

It's not that they don't deserve the chance of exposure, everyone deserves the chance at complete freedom.  It is when people learn that they cannot handle the responsibility that come with such things, that those freedoms are removed.  Hence prisons and mental hospitals.

Guns are a freedom as well, except to those that cannot handle the freedom responsibly.  These people are disallowed from owning and using such things, motor vehicles are the same way, when people prove themselves to be incapable.

I do pity people with such kids, kids that have proven to be similarly incapable at such a young age.  But face facts.  "We" are not under responsibility to be charitable, that is what taxes are.  We've given our share to take care of your tax break(our only obligation to your prized snowflake).  Everything else is directly on you.

If you cannot handle the responsibility, much as your offspring cannot, then you are in it deep, and maybe, just maybe, you should attempt to rectify or avoid situations where you are incapable of performing responsibly...
 
2013-03-16 04:51:59 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Your friends inability to walk is in no way similar to an autistic child's inability to function in a social setting.
 
2013-03-16 04:52:09 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


This
 
2013-03-16 04:52:43 PM  
Matthew Keene: Here's a question to ponder. You're out in public, and some autistic crotchfruit smacks you hard from behind, and the mother tells you to deal with it because her child is just 'acting out.' What would you do about it?

I'd be happy it wasn't the entirely healthy 18 year old who ran me over with her car last year (and ran); I'd look at the mother and await what would likely be a red-faced apology (with acceptance) and reflect on the luck of having a healthy, grown child of my own

why? am i supposed to bend down with bared teeth and growl or something?

I've been "smacked hard from behind" in public by grown men who seemed to think i'd appreciate it......
 
2013-03-16 04:53:03 PM  

Ennuipoet:  perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.


An "asshat"?

/like
 
2013-03-16 04:53:12 PM  

Valiente: So first I pictured a yellow star, and then Andy DIck. I'm pretty sure every part of my thought was offensive. I must have the autiz.


No, no, you saw what I did there.  I just wanted to transfer the bad part to the assholes rather than the disabled.
 
2013-03-16 04:53:44 PM  

PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.


I bet he'd be a real hit at the Alamo Drafthouse.
 
2013-03-16 04:54:25 PM  

thatboyoverthere: lucksi: BTW, can you test for autism before the kid is born?

Nope. It's a developmental disorder. While there is genetic inheritance and it does run in family there is no Autistic Gene.
/A recent therory states that the problem is that the kid is too hypersensitive and is unable to block out sensory data at a young age and this causes their problems as they are dealing with sensory overload when they should be developing normally.


The general consensus is that autism is innate - autistics are born that way though no one knows what causes their brain to develop abnormally or when it starts. Given that there is presently hardly any way to tell which newborns will go on to display autistic symptoms, prenatal tests are completely unavailable.

Maybe with a better understanding of autism (there is some evidence it involves having too many neurons) then techniques involving brain scanning might develop. Of course it would be best to test if whatever causes autism might be present but that is unknown now.
 
2013-03-16 04:55:01 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Why should society keep wasting resources on them?
 
2013-03-16 04:56:33 PM  

HairBolus: there is presently hardly any way to tell which newborns will go on to display autistic symptoms


i.qkme.me
 
2013-03-16 04:59:29 PM  

Killer Cars: PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.

I bet he'd be a real hit at the Alamo Drafthouse.


It's the Magnited States of America!
 
2013-03-16 05:00:22 PM  

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


This made me smile with fond memories of taking my younger daughter outside many restaurants to "chill" when she was a child. It actually provided some really cool bonding time. She's a responsible grown adult now and I'm very proud to call her my daughter.
 
2013-03-16 05:01:57 PM  

BokChoy: This autism spectrum gets wider and wider every day.


The wider the spectrum, the more money to be made by the medical and pharmaceutical industry.
 
2013-03-16 05:02:47 PM  
But there is a difference in the two. Someone who needs a cane or a wheelchair and can take care of themselves is flat out different than an adult who needs a caretaker. They aren't worth more as people, but it is different. And when you start saying everyone with some sort of disability is the same, you're implicitly telling some people (who work hard to stay independent) that they need to be taken care of, which is a reasonable reason to be insulted.

Disability to an entitled mind is basically "you do not function optimally enough for my complete enjoyment of my surroundings". Is there a delay because it took time to load your wheelchair? Was your autistic kid speaking above a whisper? Were delicate aesthetics offended by your amputated hands? Did your "blind person cane" make an annoying clicky sound as they meditated in the subway?

When everything that inconveniences them is a disability, the type of disability is meaningless.
 
2013-03-16 05:03:26 PM  
s23.postimage.org

Ding dong Ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong ding dong....

/Ding dong...
 
2013-03-16 05:04:31 PM  
AndyChrist420

I'm glad that people are reasonable where you are, but where I am, people biatch and complain about the accommodations she needs. Her parents, for starters, who actually mock her disability. Her stupid coont of a college  roommate who wouldn't even move the vacuum where she could reach it and use it and gave her shiat for having her side of the room being messy despite the fact that its difficult for her to clean it. As well as the college maintenance crews who shovel the snow sidewalks and the stairs outside her dorm but NOT THE DAMN WHEELCHAIR RAMP  because apparently they just can't be bothered despite her e-mailing them about it. And no, she isn't pushy in asking for accommodations, she's extremely polite.

So yes, maybe I overreacted a bit, but kxs401's snide remark about how "everything is for everyone" is ruining humanity kind of hit a nerve.
 
2013-03-16 05:05:14 PM  

PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.


Our local theatre has started introducing special showings for the "differently abled."  They keep the house lights up a little more and the sound down a little bit, while also allowing kids to move around and make noise.  They've apparently gotten good feedback.

http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/14/2556527/warren-to-screen-movie-for- ki ds.html
 
2013-03-16 05:05:31 PM  
These threads always bring out the best in us.

www.reactiongifs.com
 
2013-03-16 05:06:00 PM  
rugman11: That's what I was thinking.  I've seen my in-laws struggle with their four when it's both of them together.  I can't imagine handling 8 kids with 2 adults, especially when one of them is prone to loud outbursts.  That's just dumb.

The point where she talks about getting to relax and not constantly remind the 7 others to use their "indoor voices" at a restaurant and let the whole 8 pack act like the other one really makes me think they would just be a blast to be seated by.

Take that pack of hellspawn to Chuck E Cheese lady, they'll fit right in
 
2013-03-16 05:07:24 PM  

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


He might have been shushing her.

Based on the first few sentences in the article it appears she talks way too much.
 
2013-03-16 05:09:49 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: What makes it worse is that he refuses to exercise control over the volume of his voice


Most of the rest of what you've described is simply social skills that he should have been taught and learned, but this one is a lot more difficult: It can be very hard for an autistic person to tell how loud his voice is.  Extensive practice can go a long way, but it's generally not fair to classify speaking too loudly (or too softly) as intentional.
 
2013-03-16 05:10:19 PM  

thenumber5: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


I really get annoyed at people with a "Visible Disability" think they are more deserving of help and basic compassion then someone with a non-visible disability

if i say i cant do something because this is a my leg/knee is hurting a lot that day, i get "O you have a bad limp sorry"

if i say i cant doing something because my anxiety is currently at 11 and it is taken every fiber of my being to not shut down, i get told "Suck it up"


Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lump them all in together. See today I gave you a leg up. I gave you an illness instead of a disability. TADAH.

BTW I am also responding to Mr. Angry=ReverendJynx get the fark over yourself man. You are reading way to much in to shiat.
 
2013-03-16 05:10:51 PM  

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


No, it's not just you. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way.

I do not. I think it was extremely rude.
 
2013-03-16 05:11:31 PM  
While you may get some accommodations and leeway for having such disorders, yeah, you don't get a free pass.  The article actually highlighted to me that the parents of the child/teen with autism need to do a little work because they no longer recognize what is acceptable behavior in social settings.  Instead, they should have already had a plan on what to do if their child gets a little loud, just because THEY are used to it doesn't mean its socially acceptable.
 
2013-03-16 05:13:14 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.


This.  And that.

"Special needs".  "Mainstreaming".  "Here's how you deal with it".

No, here's how YOU deal with it.  Your kid is retarded.  They should be riding the short bus.  You know, to the school with all the other retarded kids so the normal kids can at least attempt to learn something without your kid being a drag on their education.  Face it: you don't get to live a "normal" life, regardless of how much you shake your fist at the sky shouting "I deserve it!"  You, like your kid, must live a life defined by their needs, and it is unreasonable to force society to live by the same definition.  Being "edgy" or "avant garde" by thinking your kid deserves to experience public places (public be damned) makes you an asshole, not a champion.  If your kid can't/won't behave in public, you shouldn't take them out in public.  When they disrupt others, expect the looks/comments, because there's always some other asshole who'll make them.

If your first kid was retarded, why the fark did you keep popping them out?

Living in denial of your genetic disaster and expecting society to sympathize and accomodate your plight is yet another symptom of today's "me" generation.  Back in the day, little Johnny would stay home.  Society doesn't owe you anything, and CERTAINLY didn't do this to you.  Fark off.
 
2013-03-16 05:14:00 PM  
Short version:  Butthurt parents are boring.
 
2013-03-16 05:14:23 PM  

Dragonflew: Cup_O_Jo: No mentally disabled is way different than physically disabled. But hey you want to lump us all in together you go ahead. I hope you live life with all your limbs and brain working.

So you would be just fine with a mentally retarded person being insulted by being called "disabled" because it included people like you?


I saw a documentary a while ago of paraplegics sports and one of the guys was saying he hated when people called it the Special Olympics because, according to him, "he's not a farking retard" he just couldn't use his legs.
 
2013-03-16 05:14:54 PM  

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?


Not just you.  The "oh, sorry" was supposed to be the end of it.  Beyond that he doesn't care about details.
 
2013-03-16 05:15:09 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: BokChoy: This autism spectrum gets wider and wider every day.

The wider the spectrum, the more money to be made by the medical and pharmaceutical industry.


Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads.  There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.
 
2013-03-16 05:15:26 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: thenumber5: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


I really get annoyed at people with a "Visible Disability" think they are more deserving of help and basic compassion then someone with a non-visible disability

if i say i cant do something because this is a my leg/knee is hurting a lot that day, i get "O you have a bad limp sorry"

if i say i cant doing something because my anxiety is currently at 11 and it is taken every fiber of my being to not shut down, i get told "Suck it up"

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lum ...


you can cure an illness, you can only treat an disability
 
2013-03-16 05:15:27 PM  

rugman11: PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.

Our local theatre has started introducing special showings for the "differently abled."  They keep the house lights up a little more and the sound down a little bit, while also allowing kids to move around and make noise.  They've apparently gotten good feedback.

http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/14/2556527/warren-to-screen-movie-for- ki ds.html


Yeah, one near us had  Mommy Matinees when mine were little. Same idea. Mostly it was great, once they got an actual mom to pick which movies were appropriate for such a showing. Monster? Really?
 
2013-03-16 05:17:52 PM  
When the kid takes to fiddlin'
He just takes his Ritalin
 
2013-03-16 05:18:40 PM  
Unfortunately, this family sounds like my neighbors who think their kids are just fine with their 'cute' ways.  Cute, like obsession with fire, small animal irritation, loud, repetitive vocalizations, etc.  Ten years from now, the mom in the article will be asking herself and neighbors, "Why is everyone telling the police these terrible things about Johnny?  He's a nice boy that just got carried away with that hatchet.  Why didn't they ever come to me, instead of calling the cops?"
 
2013-03-16 05:19:10 PM  

ReverendJynxed: And you miss the point.

I'm not saying the disabilities aren't different. I'm merely calling the assholes on their belief they are somehow superior to these other individuals. Yes the problems are handled differently.

It is insulting to all when someone tries to claim superiority of another based on their level of disability. I never claimed they all needed to be taken care of the same way either, just treated the same with the same level of dignity and respect any one of these super-abled asshats demand. See the difference?


Yep, apparently I did miss your point. And it's a good one, now that I understand you.
 
2013-03-16 05:20:26 PM  

Matthew Keene: Here's a question to ponder. You're out in public, and some autistic crotchfruit smacks you hard from behind, and the mother tells you to deal with it because her child is just 'acting out.' What would you do about it?


Maybe you should be allowed to smack the caretaker instead.
 
2013-03-16 05:22:31 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

THIS.

If they can't handle being out in most public places, don't subject others to their actions.

Sorry, but "He's autistic, deal with it" will not fly with me.


from the article, the mother makes conscious decision to NOT go to MOST public spaces. she usually goes to SPECIFIC public spaces where rowdy behavior is ok. She doesn't go to opening night of a new Batman movie, she goes to some crappy kids movie at 10am.

your personal situation is your own deal; can't you agree that THIS mother is fair and reasonable?
 
2013-03-16 05:23:15 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.


Radioactive Ass: jaylectricity: even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night

Thursday is only a hair better than Friday, and 6pm is the exact time when everybody is there to eat.

Tuesday at 5 would be much better.

Yep. 6-8 pm is prime time seating in many restaurants. Go there early or go there late on Wed - Sun if you have a kid that you know can't control themselves. I shouldn't have to put up with your kids issues. You're the one who decided to have a kid and you lost the crap shoot on making a good one, them's the risks that you undertook and you have to pay the price when you lose. Not me.


All of these. It isn't up to the rest of the restaurant staff/customers to shut up and listen to your kid screaming because your lazy ass uses his autism as an excuse to not be a competent parent. If he CAN'T be silenced enough to go to a restaurant, then that sucks for you. I can't imagine having the balls to be in a business like that and ruin the experience for everyone else around me.
 
2013-03-16 05:26:09 PM  
So basically they are special when it benefits them, but at all other times must be treated as normal?
 
2013-03-16 05:26:10 PM  
I stopped reading at "impossible standards of behavior ". Those standards weren't impossible when I was a kid. They aren't impossible now.
 
2013-03-16 05:28:03 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.
 
2013-03-16 05:30:07 PM  

BubbaJones: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.


if your going out to somewhere where people take there children for your Anniversary, i feel sorry for your partner
 
2013-03-16 05:30:39 PM  
People at restaurants who are more annoying, distracting, and difficult to eat around than autistic children:

-People with poor hygiene (noticeable dandruff, offensive body odor, flip flops and tank tops, bad acne)
-Obese people (i'd rather watch a dog taking a shiat than a fat person shove his face while I'm eating)
-Old people with no manners who think it's okay to be rude to anyone born after 1950 (like the guy referenced at the beginning)
-Women who dress in clothing that is WAY more revealing than it needs to be (boobs falling out, 9 inch skirts, usually older women past their prime)
-Drunk people (laugh way too loud, yell way too loud, curse inappropriately, try to socialize with strangers trying to eat)

Kids will be kids.  Those with special needs often don't know any better.  It's not like parents are encouraging disruptive behavior; usually they are doing their best to control it. Disruptive children are low on the totem pole of restaurant patrons who are difficult to be around.  I don't understand what people have against kids that they DON'T have against the loud drunk cursing at the television.  It's peculiar how people can laugh-off or excuse public drunkenness, poor hygiene in public, and obnoxiously rude behavior, but get upset when children make a bit of noise.
 
2013-03-16 05:30:47 PM  

manimal2878: So basically they are special when it benefits them, but at all other times must be treated as normal?


Iplaybass: I stopped reading at "impossible standards of behavior ". Those standards weren't impossible when I was a kid. They aren't impossible now.


BubbaJones: IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.


All of these. Had I acted out like that in public, my parents would have made me wish I hadn't.
 
2013-03-16 05:31:26 PM  

thenumber5: BubbaJones: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.

if your going out to somewhere where people take there children for your Anniversary, i feel sorry for your partner


Except that entitled mothers like the one in TFA are starting to bring their kids to places where they don't belong.
 
2013-03-16 05:32:41 PM  

Zippercole: People at restaurants who are more annoying, distracting, and difficult to eat around than autistic children:

-People with poor hygiene (noticeable dandruff, offensive body odor, flip flops and tank tops, bad acne)
-Obese people (i'd rather watch a dog taking a shiat than a fat person shove his face while I'm eating)
-Old people with no manners who think it's okay to be rude to anyone born after 1950 (like the guy referenced at the beginning)
-Women who dress in clothing that is WAY more revealing than it needs to be (boobs falling out, 9 inch skirts, usually older women past their prime)
-Drunk people (laugh way too loud, yell way too loud, curse inappropriately, try to socialize with strangers trying to eat)

Kids will be kids.  Those with special needs often don't know any better.  It's not like parents are encouraging disruptive behavior; usually they are doing their best to control it. Disruptive children are low on the totem pole of restaurant patrons who are difficult to be around.  I don't understand what people have against kids that they DON'T have against the loud drunk cursing at the television.  It's peculiar how people can laugh-off or excuse public drunkenness, poor hygiene in public, and obnoxiously rude behavior, but get upset when children make a bit of noise.


Could we just say that aberrant behavior affecting others nearby is unacceptable? Drunk, autistic, or otherwise?
 
2013-03-16 05:34:56 PM  
 Jonah, who has autism, was very excited about the imminent arrival of his hamburger and french fries, so he was acting as he does when he's happy: bouncing in his seat, clapping his hands, and vocalizing a mishmash of squawks and catchphrases from his favoriteSesame Street videos.

Your son does not have autism. He's a 'tard.
 
2013-03-16 05:35:16 PM  

PsiChick: The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!

As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.


www.elvex.com

Everywhere I go I am ready and you better believe I don't give a crap how people look at me
 
2013-03-16 05:35:21 PM  
The parents named the kid "Jonah". I think that explains it all.

These are like people who can't control their barking dog late at night and ask for "understanding".

/DNRTF-comments---has anyone said what I just did yet?
 
2013-03-16 05:36:40 PM  

rosemary's baby daddy: PsiChick: The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!

As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.

[www.elvex.com image 350x326]

Everywhere I go I am ready and you better believe I don't give a crap how people look at me


Threads like this have me considering an investment in some good noise-canceling phones.
 
2013-03-16 05:37:57 PM  

MeanJean: AndyChrist420

I'm glad that people are reasonable where you are, but where I am, people biatch and complain about the accommodations she needs. Her parents, for starters, who actually mock her disability. Her stupid coont of a college  roommate who wouldn't even move the vacuum where she could reach it and use it and gave her shiat for having her side of the room being messy despite the fact that its difficult for her to clean it. As well as the college maintenance crews who shovel the snow sidewalks and the stairs outside her dorm but NOT THE DAMN WHEELCHAIR RAMP  because apparently they just can't be bothered despite her e-mailing them about it. And no, she isn't pushy in asking for accommodations, she's extremely polite.

So yes, maybe I overreacted a bit, but kxs401's snide remark about how "everything is for everyone" is ruining humanity kind of hit a nerve.


I can see where you're coming from, but comparing your friends legitimate need for assistance from others is miles away from expecting others to tolerate behavior not generally accepted in polite society.

/went to college in San Diego, never had a problem with snow.
//many colleges have wheelchair accessible, single dorm rooms
///make your choices wisely
 
2013-03-16 05:38:23 PM  
"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.



He let you off the hook the first time, lady. Not everybody wants to hear your Lifetime Network story of woe and overcoming adversity in this cruel cold world.
 
2013-03-16 05:40:13 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


THIS
 
2013-03-16 05:41:02 PM  
Cup_O_Jo:

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lum ...

 I don't think it is fair to classify mental and physical disabilities as the same thing. But, I think the reason why people lump them together is to remind themselves that if something happens that they may deem inconvenient it is a result of something beyond the person's control. It doesn't always come from a disrespectful place. It comes from the desire to accommodate situations that we might not encounter by ourselves, and to adjust to diverse needs when possible.

I also wanted to state that visible physical disability gives people clearer direction in terms of what they can expect. You see a wheelchair, you know this person has mobility issues, and thus, if you are not a jerk, you don't roll your eyes when they have to be loaded on the train. In the case of some physical disabilities and mental issues, one cannot tell; which leads to more sticky situations.
 
2013-03-16 05:41:39 PM  
The problem seems to be that some parents desperately want their developmentally-challenged kids to be "normal" in the worst possible way. So they attempt to "socialize" them at every opportunity.

The problem is that these social situations the kids are dragged to are extremely uncomfortable for them to deal with  - think of the most boring things you have had to deal with, but, of course you have the self-control NOT to let it be known. (E.g. a Catholic Wedding with the high mass included - you have to be polite to those who invited you, but, damn! it's BORING and goes on-and-on!)

However, some of these poor kids look at these social engagements as pure torture. They just want to be left in their own little world, in their own thoughts, repetitively playing with their simple toys, but they have to be made to sit still, be quiet and go along with everyone else.  And they will act out.

And forcing them into these situations to make mommy think they are normal won't teach them anything and is just plain cruel.
 
2013-03-16 05:44:04 PM  

thenumber5: BubbaJones: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.

if your going out to somewhere where people take there children for your Anniversary, i feel sorry for your partner


My husband and I traditionally go to Cheeseburger in Paradise (a place we both love) every year for our anniversary, and it's a place where *gasp* people bring kids. We don't feel sorry for each other at all.
 
2013-03-16 05:47:13 PM  
See, this problem can be solved by a little application of common sense.

Autistic children acting out is a problem that can be solved by what I like to call a deep cycle marine battery.
 
2013-03-16 05:50:58 PM  

WorldCitizen: With most things in life, I think there is a middle ground. It is important to remember that neither side is not the center of the universe, not just your side. Don't get offended if your disabled child is being noisy, being messy in eating (in action and/or sound) or the like and someone perhaps really just wanting to have a quieter dinner moves to another area of the restaurant. At the same time, one should generally be able to expect that the general public not act like total assholes toward a disabled person.

Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie?  No.


Movies are too expensive. I would feel guilty if my son's vocalizing and all ruined the movie for others. He even annoyed the other ASD patrons at the sensory friendly films with his vocalizing.

We do go to football games, outdoor concerts and other events that tend to be noisy.
 
2013-03-16 05:51:15 PM  
My cousin is severely autistic,and my  brother and his wife are taking my teething 5 month old niece on a plane today, so I'm getting a kick...

....I will say special needs can cause very difficult situations. However, I have worked with special needs kids and they can be disciplined and taught some types of appropriate behaviour. I don't believe special needs is free reign to be uncontrollably disruptive in public. Unfortunately, if someone is going be be excessively disruptive, then there are just some places they should not  be at for a lengthy amount of time.
 
2013-03-16 05:53:06 PM  

mafiageek1980: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

THIS


This straw man has already been debunked.  Read the comments.
 
2013-03-16 05:54:30 PM  

namegoeshere: So if my toddler is acting out at a restaraunt, does everyone have to be tolerant?


Umm yeah. why not?
 
2013-03-16 05:55:09 PM  

chrylis: Most of the rest of what you've described is simply social skills that he should have been taught and learned, but this one is a lot more difficult: It can be very hard for an autistic person to tell how loud his voice is. Extensive practice can go a long way, but it's generally not fair to classify speaking too loudly (or too softly) as intentional.


When my father was still alive and actually would take control of the situation, it wasn't a problem to this extent. Although he is technically an adult, his childish behavior is practically egged on by the main adult in his life. But yeah, the volume isn't the main issue, it's the content behind the volume. Nobody wants to be in a public space and have to listen to some weirdo loudly talking about furry porn, or be at a Thanksgiving dinner and have someone jump up, throw plates and wave knives around at them.

chrylis: Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads. There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.


The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.
 
2013-03-16 05:55:36 PM  
I get that the headline says "special needs," but the thrust of the article (I didn't read it all, but scanned) was primarily about autistic people, right? So why use a pic of a kid with Downs?
 
2013-03-16 05:56:07 PM  
As a person with Aspergers, I really don't know how to deal with autistic people being around in public. Sure, you could say they are entitled to the same rights as a normal person, but the problem is, they really aren't. I know this first hand. Can't handle being around people, so I keep myself away from public places when I can. If you have an autistic child, taking them anywhere is probably a bad idea from a logical standpoint. Either find a specialized babysitter or a family member who can deal with the child.
As for autistic adults, you probably shouldn't be out in public or in situations you can't escape from. Your stress will build up, and you will enter your "safe mode" once it hits the breaking point, which may cause distress to normal people nearby. That's just a fact of life for those with Aspergers or autism. It's better to stay more isolated, since with the advent of the Internet, you can control when and how you socialize if you need to.
Of course, these are from pure logical standpoints, and may not apply to one or more people with autism. I am not a professional.
 
2013-03-16 05:56:23 PM  
It's too bad I have Changnesia and will forget the great advice the author gave.
 
2013-03-16 05:56:35 PM  

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


You're in luck -- this already exists.  Look for the codeword "Tapout."  You can also look for a Bluetooth device lodged in the subject's ear in inappropriate situations.
 
2013-03-16 05:57:32 PM  

aesirx: WTFdoesitmatter: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

THIS.

If they can't handle being out in most public places, don't subject others to their actions.

Sorry, but "He's autistic, deal with it" will not fly with me.

from the article, the mother makes conscious decision to NOT go to MOST public spaces. she usually goes to SPECIFIC public spaces where rowdy behavior is ok. She doesn't go to opening night of a new Batman movie, she goes to some crappy kids movie at 10am.

your personal situation is your own deal; can't you agree that THIS mother is fair and reasonable?


No kidding.  Because we've seen how people with developmental disabilities act on opening night of new Batman movies.
 
2013-03-16 05:58:53 PM  
Hit other people's kids. Those that can't be taught can still be trained.
 
2013-03-16 05:58:58 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.


On one hand, we have thousands of Physicians encompassing everything from Neonatology, Endocrinology, Neurology, Child Psychiatry; scientists of numerous disciplines with hard evidence, and decades of epidemiological and public health research which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before, and improved education at the Family Provider level at identification and intervention.

On the other hand, we have random internet guy who says it's a conspiracy.

randomdrake.com

I do applaud you for steering clear of the "Vaccines cause autism" derp, though.
 
2013-03-16 06:01:19 PM  
If it is a truly public place, like a park or city street, then people should tolerate it, or embrace being a jerk and complain to the parent, or go somewhere else.  But, If it is a restaurant or movie theater, then complain to the manager.  If the manager won't set and enforce standards you find acceptable, then ask for your money back and don't support their business in the future.  Simple.
 
2013-03-16 06:03:46 PM  

hardinparamedic: On one hand, we have thousands of Physicians encompassing everything from Neonatology, Endocrinology, Neurology, Child Psychiatry; scientists of numerous disciplines with hard evidence, and decades of epidemiological and public health research which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before, and improved education at the Family Provider level at identification and intervention.

On the other hand, we have random internet guy who says it's a conspiracy.

I do applaud you for steering clear of the "Vaccines cause autism" derp, though.


Hell no, I don't believe that vaccines cause autism. Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.
 
2013-03-16 06:08:36 PM  

MeanJean: The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


very few, especially at college, would mind a short delay. this woman's noisy obnoxious kid in a public restaurant is another matter. casual eatery or not junior going off is annoying.
 
2013-03-16 06:09:06 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.


You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.

The problem is that too many parents find it far easier to let their precious, neurodiverse little snowflake make an ass out of himself without setting down boundaries and enforcing rules. Autistic kids who grow up like that will have a hard time adjusting to displaying and dealing with emotions as an adult. My ex-brother in law is a great example of this. 300 pound autistic with the mind of a five year old, who all through his life had his parents give him everything he wanted when he acted out. Only now he's no longer the little boy, he's a 6'3, 300 pound juggernaut.

As a counter to your previous post, yes, there was a lot of autism in your Dad's day as well. Only they were labeled as 'tards or "eccentric", or they were thrown in jail as delinquents and trouble makers.
 
2013-03-16 06:09:49 PM  
Popcorn Johnny

You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

So long as we continue to villify people who respond appropriately to being disturbed, the vast majority of Americans will believe that "the right thing to do" is to do nothing at all. 

And the cycle perpetuates.
 
2013-03-16 06:11:44 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


So what's your excuse?
 
2013-03-16 06:12:11 PM  
Where it gets tricky is in the middle. What are reasonable expectations of behavior in public places? Like many autistic individuals, Jonah is virtually incapable of doing anything quietly. He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person. But what I keep coming back to is that community, by definition, is inclusive. Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone

No, you don't "get it".

If you "got it", you would realize that your inability to control your child is directly impacting everyone around you, and you are basically telling everyone there, "too bad for you"  because your child cannot stop yelling, bouncing, and clapping, and you lack the empathy for those around you to remove that child from the situation.

FFS, your wants do not trump everyone else's.
 
2013-03-16 06:12:45 PM  
I realize that people have the right to eat in peace at a restaurant, but the thing that I find sad is that the old guy would be bothered enough to "Shhhhh" someone. When I'm dining out, it's usually a happy occasion because the family or friends are together and we're enjoying each other's company. And we also understand that other people are there to enjoy themselves as well. And sometimes that fun, festive atmosphere involves alcohol, loud jokes and laughs. It may interfere a bit with the conversations going on in my group, but so what? I'm happy and when others people in the room are happy too, even if it's noisy, it makes for a pleasant dining experience because it's nice to see others enjoying themselves.

Of course, if the noise is due to arguing or whatnot, I'd probably ask to be seated elsewhere, or I'd do whatever I could to leave as quickly as possible, but that certainly wasn't the case.
 
2013-03-16 06:12:59 PM  
hmmmm.  i'm going WAAAY out on a limb here, subby.  I agreed with you at first glance, but after reading the entire article, I felt she was being rather fair and balanced.  She acknowledged all sides, for which she gets kudos.  From your headline, I was expecting something far more selfish from the mother.
 
2013-03-16 06:13:45 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


This
 
2013-03-16 06:15:29 PM  

hardinparamedic: which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before


To the extent of increased diagnoses, sure.  I'm not at all convinced that we're seeing a massive rise in the actual incidence of autistic characteristics.  As one particular example, American society has become dramatically less structured in the last 40 years or so, meaning that individuals who would have had no particular difficulty in a more clearly-defined social environment are having more trouble today.  It's similar to the lower diagnosed rate of dyslexia in countries that speak Romance languages even though the rates found in wide-scale random testing are about equal.
 
2013-03-16 06:15:33 PM  

PsiChick: The_Sponge: kxs401: Ideally, our public spaces should accommodate everyone.

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

This!

As a child--and mind you, I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome, so I didn't even  know what was wrong with me socially--I was expected to behave in public. My mother taught me that, and taught me how to behave when I didn't understand some unspoken rule.

If I had been sitting and quietly talking to myself as a child, and someone had gone 'SHHHH!' across a resturaunt, my mother would personally have told the shusher exactly where to shove it,  because the point of public spaces is that they're public, and because  you don't get special treatment because you're 'normal'.

/tl;dr: If you're such a farking snowflake you can't handle the disabled being slightly weird in public, stay at home.


This, this, this, and THIS.

So many precious snowflakes in this thread, we might as well go skiing.
 
2013-03-16 06:17:14 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.

This


The only problem ends up being that autistic people can't tell what is appropriate or not.
The logical solution would be to keep them from ever being in those situations in the first place.
 
2013-03-16 06:18:05 PM  
If you are the parent of ANY child, you should know that your kid acts like a farking chimpanzee.

Sorry, but your "public" privileges are going to net you some input from your fellow humans.
 
2013-03-16 06:19:04 PM  

WTFdoesitmatter: chrylis: Most of the rest of what you've described is simply social skills that he should have been taught and learned, but this one is a lot more difficult: It can be very hard for an autistic person to tell how loud his voice is. Extensive practice can go a long way, but it's generally not fair to classify speaking too loudly (or too softly) as intentional.

When my father was still alive and actually would take control of the situation, it wasn't a problem to this extent. Although he is technically an adult, his childish behavior is practically egged on by the main adult in his life. But yeah, the volume isn't the main issue, it's the content behind the volume. Nobody wants to be in a public space and have to listen to some weirdo loudly talking about furry porn, or be at a Thanksgiving dinner and have someone jump up, throw plates and wave knives around at them.

chrylis: Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads. There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.

The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.


Fark no longer quotes only the highlighted text. Anyway...
We only see more autistic kids in public now because their parents aren't ashamed of them. We only have more diagnoses of autism because doctors stopped just labeling the kid retarded. As for ADD, we used to treat it as a behavior problem. It didn't help. Again, we see more kids with ADD because they aren't getting locked up.
 
2013-03-16 06:19:54 PM  
Years ago I was at a fast food joint, enjoying my meal with my family when a bus pulled up from the state school (you know, that place where the mentally handicapped are basically locked away, and from the stories that I've heard, for everyone's own good).  I lost my appetite upon seeing them.  The one that caused me to instantly stop eating and leave was seeing a man who could not control his own drool and hand to constantly carry around a rag with him and leave his own tongue hanging out because of the constant drool.  Sickening to see any time, worse in a restaurant.  And, call me an asshole, but there are people who I honestly don't believe should be in public.

As for this mother, I learned in college that 10 adults sitting in a booth in a restaurant having dinner before hitting the bars is loud enough, is messy enough.  Making it two adults and eight children has to be hell on not just those around you, but also for the waitstaff.  Were the two mothers in TFA too good for McDonalds or Burger King?  You know, a place where kids aren't confined to a table and have a playground that they can go run around and play in?  Lady, you take your friend and combined eight kids to a place that has a waitstaff that brings you food, that already means that there are standards to which everyone obeys (tipping, not slapping the hot waitress on the ass as the delivers your drinks, please and thank you), and somehow you're taking these standards that are accepted by everyone, even children and calling them impossible standards.  How is keeping a low tone of voice an impossible standard?  Do you take your son to the library and then biatch at everyone around you when they ask you to be quiet?  If your son can't keep quiet in the movie theater, don't take him.  When I go to the movies I pay my money to see and listen to the movie, not to see the movie and hear a mixture of the movie and your son's noises.  But I'm sure you have your soap box ready to tell me how I need to understand that your son as every right to not just see that movie but also ruin the experience for everyone else by telling me that it's an impossible standard for any child to keep their pie hole shut.  Lady, if it really is impossible for you to do so, please, leave the brats at home.

Look, I have no children.  I'm 34 years old and married.  My wife and I can not have children (she has medical problems preventing it).  But incredibly, our lives are effected by children.  I live in the middle of a long row of apartment complexes.  I have to time my departure perfectly in the mornings because if I don't, I'm going to get caught behind school buses that must stop at each and every apartment building.  Even though the children don't cross the street, I'm not allowed to go around the school bus.  I've had multiple jobs where I had surprise over time because the job had to be done, but my coworker couldn't come in because of their kid (sick, injured, no sitter).  Worse was when I was a security guard.  On weekends there was only the need for one of use to be there at a time, but we couldn't leave until we had our relief.  My relief was a single mother who couldn't get her shiat together.  So I ended up working 20 hour shifts, and when things happened, who's ass was on the line?  Mine because I was the guy on duty and explaining that I worked a 20 hour shift, got four hours to go home, sleep, shower, shave, dress and return to work isn't an explanation, it's an excuse.  Being in public is just as bad.  When I was a kid I was told not to eavesdrop or listen to other conversations.  And in stores, I don't want to listen to your kids scream.  I know they want that toy and you told them no so now they're screaming and crying and making a scene.  Please deal with it.  Don't look at us like we're the bad guys.  We're not, we're victims of noise pollution that you created, and worse yet, we can't get away from it.  I can try going to the store while school's in session, but there's kids in the stores then.  At night, after 10 pm, amazingly, there are kids there as well.  How?  I don't farking know.  It makes me think little of you as a parent when I'm grocery shopping at 10pm on a Wednesday and you're there also with your school age kids.

ending rant...
 
2013-03-16 06:20:49 PM  

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


I want that for my birthday.
 
2013-03-16 06:22:20 PM  

hardinparamedic: WTFdoesitmatter: Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.

You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.

The problem is that too many parents find it far easier to let their precious, neurodiverse little snowflake make an ass out of himself without setting down boundaries and enforcing rules. Autistic kids who grow up like that will have a hard time adjusting to displaying and dealing with emotions as an adult. My ex-brother in law is a great example of this. 300 pound autistic with the mind of a five year old, who all through his life had his parents give him everything he wanted when he acted out. Only now he's no longer the little boy, he's a 6'3, 300 pound juggernaut.

As a counter to your previous post, yes, there was a lot of autism in your Dad's day as well. Only they were labeled as 'tards or "eccentric", or they were thrown in jail as delinquents and trouble makers.


I'm totally agreeing with you about the parenting aspect of autistic children. Obviously, in many severe cases of autism the affected patient will never be able to function normally as a member of society. However, as the spectrum continues to widen, what were once considered mild behavioral or social issues and were dealt with as such, are now dealt with by many parents as a crippling disability/universal excuse for everything their precious snowflake ever does wrong in their life.

I realize that having taken one semester of educational psychology in college doesn't count for much in the long run, but from my personal experiences, one thing stood out from the course and still does to this day - The best way to keep someone handicapped is to allow them to act handicapped.
 
2013-03-16 06:24:41 PM  

hardinparamedic: As a counter to your previous post, yes, there was a lot of autism in your Dad's day as well. Only they were labeled as 'tards or "eccentric", or they were thrown in jail as delinquents and trouble makers.


Ahh the good ol days!

Mostly kidding, but your line is pretty funny if you think they aren't still labeled as tards
 
2013-03-16 06:24:54 PM  
A complete lack of corporal punishment for an entire generation has resulted in a society that can't say no to anybody.  Kid wants to act out?  Go ahead!  Want to talk in a movie?  Sure!  Cell phone in church?  Why not?

What's missing is that people who are parents now weren't beaten enough as kids, so they think it's normal to give a child whatever he/she wants the second it is demanded.  Notice how the woman in the article describes her son: "He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour. "

Translation:  He was making enough noise to wake up Bonnie Franklin.  What that woman considers "exceeding" is levels above what normal people consider exceeding.  But she's so wrapped up in herself she doesn't realize it.  She's looking at her son and saying "well, he's not biting people" and thinking he's behaving.  Everyone else is looking at her son and saying "that kid sounds like two elephants farking on top of a dying giraffe."
 
2013-03-16 06:27:22 PM  

Lsherm: "that kid sounds like two elephants farking on top of a dying giraffe."


anongallery.org
 
2013-03-16 06:27:52 PM  

This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?


My mom would take me outside and lock me in the car so she could finish shopping.
 
2013-03-16 06:29:21 PM  
This is why we should keep abortion legal. Post natal. Up to 50 years. Start with the parents.
 
2013-03-16 06:31:28 PM  

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


Conversely, the parents of the special needs kids should wear a t-shirt that says, "I should apologize for ruining your meal, but since I am a dick I really didn't give it any thought."
 
2013-03-16 06:34:35 PM  

JRoo: This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?

My mom would take me outside and lock me in the car so she could finish shopping.


Yep, mine too. Unfortunately, someone would call CPS now, because, um, kids shouldn't be alone...or something.

/THINK OF THE CHILDREN
 
2013-03-16 06:35:13 PM  

L.D. Ablo: The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.


THIS.  Folks can marry their houseplant but bog forbid if I want to find my wife's ring in the grass with a metal detector.  A pet peeve of mine is all of the local idiots that bought some regentrified WW2 shoebox and park their car on the street.  Ya have that whole driveway and can't save all of the other users of the road the hassle of avoiding your car because you can't take an extra 15 seconds to back out of your driveway.  As my dad used to say, "the fleas come with the dog". I also appreciate the general 'tude of if I want to enjoy the one day I have off with the woman I love and buy her food and I am irked by someone's behavior, that I am some sort of caveperson.  Just get em a tshirt.  If their own behavior doesn't bother them at all, then why would a tshirt that explains their condition to the public?  We all want to know how special lil Suzy pink panties is also, so as not to offend thee.  Any dog under 25 pounds is not a service dog.  Just get a furby and feed them with your smartphone.  Also get the ADA tattooed on your forehead so we don't have to listen to the "You are NOT ALLOWED to ask me that question!" horseshiat in every airport, eatery, busline, sitcom, fruitbats, orangutans, and sitch.
 
2013-03-16 06:37:10 PM  

kimmygibblershomework: L.D. Ablo: The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.

THIS.  Folks can marry their houseplant but bog forbid if I want to find my wife's ring in the grass with a metal detector.  A pet peeve of mine is all of the local idiots that bought some regentrified WW2 shoebox and park their car on the street.  Ya have that whole driveway and can't save all of the other users of the road the hassle of avoiding your car because you can't take an extra 15 seconds to back out of your driveway.  As my dad used to say, "the fleas come with the dog". I also appreciate the general 'tude of if I want to enjoy the one day I have off with the woman I love and buy her food and I am irked by someone's behavior, that I am some sort of caveperson.  Just get em a tshirt.  If their own behavior doesn't bother them at all, then why would a tshirt that explains their condition to the public?  We all want to know how special lil Suzy pink panties is also, so as not to offend thee.  Any dog under 25 pounds is not a service dog.  Just get a furby and feed them with your smartphone.  Also get the ADA tattooed on your forehead so we don't have to listen to the "You are NOT ALLOWED to ask me that question!" horseshiat in every airport, eatery, busline, sitcom, fruitbats, orangutans, and sitch.


Uh...okay.
 
2013-03-16 06:39:10 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: /she saves her meltdowns for home


What is that, like a type of hot sandwich or maybe a brown with ice cream on it or something?
 
2013-03-16 06:41:21 PM  
So an individual can get a free pass to act however they want due to some misplaced genes?   Well hot damn.

There are certain social norms -- and when I'm paying $100 dollars for a meal, I expect it to be quiet or at a normal dinner level of noise. I'm pretty sure the parents of these "special kids" would get pissed if i showed up outside their house at 3am and started making all sorts of retarded noises.

parents that parade their sex trophies around and expect everyone to fall to their knees and love the kid is bad enough... doing the same thing with a mentally retarded child is even worse. yes, I said mentally retarded, you know one of the original words before some feel good wussy society made the term politically incorrect because it hurt their dumb feelings.

What's next? we aren't going to call cancer cancer anymore?   "oh mr johnson you don't have cancer you just have a 1lb mass of free thinking cells going rogue in your body"
 
2013-03-16 06:44:31 PM  

BubbaJones: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

That is not the problem here. This is:

"even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior. "


IMPOSSIBLE?? I expect him to not kill any one either! There are standards of behavior and if they are impossible, then he needs to be put away somewhere and cared for.

Welcome to Society. That is how it works.

So if I decide to go out to dinner on a Thursday at 6 because that is my Anniversary, I have to allow your child to screech and holler about his burger because you think you have the right to not correct him.


Some of these movements/vocaliza

Persnickety Paladin: Cup_O_Jo:

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lum ...

 I don't think it is fair to classify mental and physical disabilities as the same thing. But, I think the reason why people lump them together is to remind themselves that if something happens that they may deem inconvenient it is a result of something beyond the person's control. It doesn't always come from a disrespectful place. It comes from the desire to accommodate situations that we might not encounter by ourselves, and to adjust to diverse needs when possible.

I also wanted to state that visible physical disability gives people clearer direction in terms of what they can expect. You see a wheelchair, you know this person has mobility issues, and thus, if you are not a jerk, you don't roll your eyes when they have to be loaded on the train. In the case of some physical disabilities and mental issues, one cannot tell; which leads to more sticky situations.


They are also lumped together because the same laws protect their rights.

FYI Those with ASD sometimes get a handicapped parking placard due to the risk of elopement.
 
2013-03-16 06:44:46 PM  

hardinparamedic: WTFdoesitmatter: Kids not having to think for themselves anymore, and being placed in front of a TV/game console/computer as a substitute for parental interaction is doing the real damage.

You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.


There are two sides to that coin that you're conveniently neglecting.  Problematic Behavior =/= Problematic Brain

Many frigid and neglectful parents do indeed end up with kids that are, on the surface, indistinguishable from the mentally handicapped. Their symptoms can be mild to downright farked up.  Having been capable of learning, but having no adequate teacher can yield a person that's troubled for their entire life.

Add to that, many doctors diagnose based on symptomatic behavior alone, not on catscans/MRI or other means of testing structure and function.

Your "debunking" is hardly what you make it seem.  Yes, it does not cause actual autism.  It can cause some severe developmental problems that are decidedly similar that can be mistaken as.(and what the guy you were replying to was talking about).

It's humorous because you're attempting to pretend you're superior, but are evidently inferior.

JWideman: Fark no longer quotes only the highlighted text. Anyway...


It does sometimes, it did just now for me in quoting you.  The new default post thing is only sporadically reliable.  They need to add an option to use the html by default.  I'm not exactly sure why it got changed.  People using noscript maybe?  Whatever, it's now an unreliable pain in the ass.
 
2013-03-16 06:46:15 PM  
True story- Our family with three kids was out a few years ago at restaurant, and across the aisle was another family, a mom with two kids. Those kids were all over the place, visiting other people's, crawling under them, screaming, squealing, shrieking, trying to trip the waitress, etc. Everyone knew those kids names because mom never bothered to get up and address the issues, she wanted to have grown up talk with her sister, so of course would stop every other sentence to repeat any or all of the kids names.

In the meantime, we picked our food. Dinner came and we ate our dinner. Made small talk, etc. Kids stayed in their seats, no screaming. You get the idea. This isn't to brag, I think it was just a lucky night for us. Anyhow we get the check and pay, and on the way out an old man, Marlon Brando Godfather looking literally grabs my arm from his table and pulls me toward him with an iron grip on my coat, surrounded by a few son looking types, temporarily worrying my husband. The old man whispered in my ear "Now you, YOU have nice behaved children". I thanked him and nodded to my husband all was okay.

What I didn't say was that two of my kids are high functioning autistics. Those other kids, though one could not be sure, were just under disciplined and their mom seemed to think she was entitled to her time. My kids have and occasionally still do act out with the right triggers, but as their mom, I don't expect the public to deal with it. One of us will take the kid outside, take a walk with them or a quick drive in the car. One can't predict all sudden panics, but we can at least know when situations are ripe to look for a better outlet. We do drive ins for movies and the occasional Mom's Movietime bit- where the lights are still on, volume is softer, babies are crying, and everyone is used to kids running about. We plan things out and talk about them with the kids, and our expectations of them so that there are no surprises as much as possible.

Not sure where I was going with this. Basically, that I can't just keep my kids at home all the time for the sake of other people being afraid they cannot have a good time. I also know that many kids who are 'neurotypical' are worse in public. Not all, just the ones where the parent or parents needs to socialize overtake the times where they need to be on the job teaching kids how to behave. It's less often that a parent of a special needs kid can honestly mentally clock out for a long period of time, whereas maybe the parents of non diagnosed with anything believe that their kids can raise themselves and learn manners on their own?

/kids are like little Star Trek Vulcans
//except the one who is not affected with Autism. That one wants to be Cinderella.
///All the bases covered?
 
2013-03-16 06:49:42 PM  

SploogeTime: Hey guys! Get sterilized!


Or perhaps:

2.bp.blogspot.com

/your move
 
2013-03-16 06:50:39 PM  
Don't eat at family restaurants if you don't want to be around families. Someone making noise at a movie and won't stop? I'm complaining to management and getting a refund whether they are retarded or not.
 
2013-03-16 06:51:03 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: The problem seems to be that some parents desperately want their developmentally-challenged kids to be "normal" in the worst possible way. So they attempt to "socialize" them at every opportunity.

The problem is that these social situations the kids are dragged to are extremely uncomfortable for them to deal with  - think of the most boring things you have had to deal with, but, of course you have the self-control NOT to let it be known. (E.g. a Catholic Wedding with the high mass included - you have to be polite to those who invited you, but, damn! it's BORING and goes on-and-on!)

However, some of these poor kids look at these social engagements as pure torture. They just want to be left in their own little world, in their own thoughts, repetitively playing with their simple toys, but they have to be made to sit still, be quiet and go along with everyone else.  And they will act out.

And forcing them into these situations to make mommy think they are normal won't teach them anything and is just plain cruel.


Children with ASD can be conditioned at a young age to function in certain situations. You introduce the experience slowly and they gradually learn to tolerate and behave appropriately.  The boy in the restaurant was misbehaving by the way. He was experiencing joy and excitement. The most a mother can teach him is "shh" and hope that he does it.  She could also try to distract him with something.

It is important that all children have a variety of life experiences. My son does get bored at home and LOVES to go on "field trips." He flaps, runs and vocalizes with excitement and sometimes tantrums because he doesn't want the experience to end.
 
2013-03-16 06:52:05 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


Huh. Well, I guess it's not a free pass considering what that person has to deal with on a daily basis.
 
2013-03-16 06:53:57 PM  
WOOHOO! ROTTEN CROTCH FRUIT FOOD FIGHT THREAD

/hey don't blame me, i didn't tell you to have kids
//let alone waterheads
///amirite
 
2013-03-16 06:55:58 PM  

bborchar: My friend's brother-in-law seems to be a high-functioning sociopath- he's very smart (he's an engineer, and he works with my husband at the lab); but he's also extremely moronic when it comes to interacting with people.  He's a leper at work, and while you feel sorry for him, when you meet him, it's VERY hard to like him.  He makes inappropriate comments to my friend (he went into the private room where she was nursing her son and started talking about her breasts the other day), and he charged a lot of porn to the company card and turned in on his statement.  He's a grown man, and has no friends and can't get a girlfriend.  It really is sad...but no one can stand to be around him.  However, his mother still babies him and begs everyone to spend time with him.

It's a sad reality, but people who don't function well in our society are going to be outcasts...and society won't change for them.  It's hard to be friends with someone who doesn't understand boundaries.  As a mother, I completely understand wanting people to like your child and being heartbroken when they don't...but as a member of society, it's impossible to welcome everyone in when they are so difficult to deal with.  It's a very thin line, and there's not a lot of help for people who have to walk it.


I might be wrong, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he isn't a sociopath.  Sociopaths can often have friends and be quite well liked because they are experts at hiding their true nature.  Equally they can often be successful with women.  And they don't usually make outrageous, socially inappropriate comments unless provoked because they are trying to blend in.  It's kind of like being very different and not feeling like you fit in at all but being hyper aware of this so that you are able to 'fake it' to seem normal.

I suspect that there is something wrong with him.  And I certainly agree that, as you say, sometimes people are not going to fit in, not because of their handicap but because of the way they are.  In my experience, the biggest factor is aggression   No matter the handicap, if a person isn't particularly aggressive then most people with show them a great deal of patience.  If the person is very aggressive then the tolerance from others drops rapidly.
 
2013-03-16 07:01:53 PM  
Why do people with disabled placards on their cars drive like they're mentally disabled as well?
 
2013-03-16 07:08:41 PM  

Hallows_Eve: Basically, that I can't just keep my kids at home all the time for the sake of other people being afraid they cannot have a good time.


No one expects you to, until it comes down to a damn good chance that your kids will be a problem for others.  Sure, if they do have an occasional fit but are generally well behaved, that's fine, shiat happens to everyone, "normal" kids or not, as your example shows.

The sentiment is towards all parents(all that recognize their kids are often problematic in public at any rate).  That chick with underdisciplined kids?  She's just as much at fault for taking uncontrollable kids into public.

It's not a normal people vs challenged people thing.  It's polite vs impolite.  It has nothing to do with why the kids are misbhaved, only that they are misbehaved.

For what it's worth, the people with kids that are not well disciplined, they are worse.  You can tell that it's a historical pattern, the kids know mom doesn't give a shiat and it shows.  That's not only impolite, but reprehensible because it's arguable that it's child abuse that allows the kids to act that way in the first place. "Spoil" and "rotten", as such, are used for a reason, that kind of up-bringing can have life-long adverse effects.

At least you care, and if you do have a problem in public, something tells me you may be embarrassed and apologize.  That woman with the little devil children, she never will be embarrassed, if she does apologize, it will be a token effort with no real meaning, symbolic of her whole apathetic situation.

It's all about consideration.  People that show none towards others, don't deserve the light of day, but often do deserve much of the negative attention they do get(though maybe an explanation as well).  But the odds of those fark-up/off parents actually reading or understanding what is being said is about nil anyhow.  In reality, they're the village idiot's.
 
2013-03-16 07:09:13 PM  

whistleridge: This About That: Anybody remember back in the day, when the kid got loud, one of his parents would pick him up and carry him outside until he settled down? How is it that some kid's parents' rights instilled the obligation upon the rest of us to put up with his crap? What happened to our rights?

I got one warning, then I got hauled to the bathroom and got a firm spanking. One memorable time, the restaurant applauded as I and a friend were hauled away to our fates (it struck home...i never misbehaved in public again). 

I'm pretty sure any parents who did that today would have CPS called on them. I'm not advocating one way or the other, just noting that times, and perspectives, change.


May have been the whole room applauding your punishment that helped.
These days though guaranteed to have some ignorant helicopter parent supporting their childs behaviour and causing a bigger disturbance than controlling their crotchfruit.
 
2013-03-16 07:10:20 PM  

kimmygibblershomework: L.D. Ablo: The problem is that every asshole behavior is being turned into some medical condition.  So then you have to "understand" the person while being treated like shiat.

I have a simple strategy for obnoxious children in restaurants.  I go up to the parents with a smile and tell them that the conditions of my parole say that I shouldn't be this close to children.

THIS.  Folks can marry their houseplant but bog forbid if I want to find my wife's ring in the grass with a metal detector.  A pet peeve of mine is all of the local idiots that bought some regentrified WW2 shoebox and park their car on the street.  Ya have that whole driveway and can't save all of the other users of the road the hassle of avoiding your car because you can't take an extra 15 seconds to back out of your driveway.  As my dad used to say, "the fleas come with the dog". I also appreciate the general 'tude of if I want to enjoy the one day I have off with the woman I love and buy her food and I am irked by someone's behavior, that I am some sort of caveperson.  Just get em a tshirt.  If their own behavior doesn't bother them at all, then why would a tshirt that explains their condition to the public?  We all want to know how special lil Suzy pink panties is also, so as not to offend thee.  Any dog under 25 pounds is not a service dog.  Just get a furby and feed them with your smartphone.  Also get the ADA tattooed on your forehead so we don't have to listen to the "You are NOT ALLOWED to ask me that question!" horseshiat in every airport, eatery, busline, sitcom, fruitbats, orangutans, and sitch.


oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg

I loled.
 
2013-03-16 07:11:22 PM  
Is this the thread where people self-diagnose as having Aspergers? Apparently so ...
 
2013-03-16 07:14:22 PM  

serial_crusher: Pocket Ninja: This was very good, subby, and you are going to be rewarded in the thread. And you avoided what would have been overkill in selecting the Hero tag, a common rookie mistake. My one suggestion would have been to redirect the apologetic element in the first half of the headline, which diminishes some of the overall punch. Instead of apologizing on behalf of the child, I would have had the woman apologizing for the person being bothered by the child, e.g., "I'm sorry that you are bothered by my autistic child acting out. Let me tell you how you need to deal with it." A minor tweak, to be sure, but it would have upped the rage at least a notch or two.

I disagree. The genius of subby's headline is that it starts out with a parent of an autistic child behaving reasonably for once. You get this false sense of hope, only to have it taken away.


This. The headline is farking brilliant as it is. One of the best I have ever read.
 
2013-03-16 07:14:42 PM  
A waitress sat me in a dining room full of screaming kids this week. I got up and walked over to the bar and ate my meal there instead. Apparently that makes me an awful person according to this woman.

The one thing parents need to remember is that the infinite patience they have for their own children does not extend to other people. No one is telling you not to love your kid. We're just telling you that we don't.
 
2013-03-16 07:15:44 PM  

omeganuepsilon: something tells me you may be embarrassed and apologize.


Or otherwise show that you are considerate of the other people around you.  Didn't mean to imply anything there.  Embarrassment itself is nothing to be shameful about, or used to deride people(shouldn't be at any rate).  It's a display of one who's typically agreeable and considerate, but that a mistake was made and recognized.  People that don't get embarrassed are typically the one's you have to watch out for, be they sociopaths or psychopaths or otherwise disturbed.

Vsauce did a youtube video about embarrassment recently, kinda a neat concept or two in there.
 
2013-03-16 07:19:03 PM  

omeganuepsilon: The new default post thing is only sporadically reliable. They need to add an option to use the html by default. I'm not exactly sure why it got changed. People using noscript maybe? Whatever, it's now an unreliable pain in the ass.


THIS THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS...

Old buttons, plz. I am not getting over it.
 
2013-03-16 07:21:05 PM  

The sound of one hand clapping: bborchar: My friend's brother-in-law seems to be a high-functioning sociopath- he's very smart (he's an engineer, and he works with my husband at the lab); but he's also extremely moronic when it comes to interacting with people.  He's a leper at work, and while you feel sorry for him, when you meet him, it's VERY hard to like him.  He makes inappropriate comments to my friend (he went into the private room where she was nursing her son and started talking about her breasts the other day), and he charged a lot of porn to the company card and turned in on his statement.  He's a grown man, and has no friends and can't get a girlfriend.  It really is sad...but no one can stand to be around him.  However, his mother still babies him and begs everyone to spend time with him.

It's a sad reality, but people who don't function well in our society are going to be outcasts...and society won't change for them.  It's hard to be friends with someone who doesn't understand boundaries.  As a mother, I completely understand wanting people to like your child and being heartbroken when they don't...but as a member of society, it's impossible to welcome everyone in when they are so difficult to deal with.  It's a very thin line, and there's not a lot of help for people who have to walk it.

I might be wrong, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he isn't a sociopath.  Sociopaths can often have friends and be quite well liked because they are experts at hiding their true nature.  Equally they can often be successful with women.  And they don't usually make outrageous, socially inappropriate comments unless provoked because they are trying to blend in.  It's kind of like being very different and not feeling like you fit in at all but being hyper aware of this so that you are able to 'fake it' to seem normal.

I suspect that there is something wrong with him.  And I certainly agree that, as you say, sometimes people are not going to fit in, not because of their handicap but because of the ...


LOL no, he isnt a sociopath. I think you're being trolled. He's no sociopath, he is...

wdca.images.worldnow.com
 
2013-03-16 07:22:07 PM  

PsiChick:  I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome


How do you know this, if it hasn't been diagnosed?
 
2013-03-16 07:22:46 PM  

december: Is this the thread where people self-diagnose as having Aspergers? Apparently so ...


It seems as though people who are socially awkward, but think of themselves as intellectually superior will often claim they have Aspergers. Back in my day, we just used to call them "dorks" or "geeks".
 
2013-03-16 07:24:36 PM  
"My son is autistic ... "
"Oh, sorry," he said.


At this point you have made your point. The other diner has accepted the reason for the child being noisy

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

You followed up without noticing that your "opponent" had conceded

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

He's irritated with your follow up not your kid. Read the conversation better next time it was not about your child it was you.
 
2013-03-16 07:26:45 PM  
And yet they still want special treatment when it comes to parking and ramps and $60,000 a year aides in public schools.
 
2013-03-16 07:27:25 PM  

namegoeshere: omeganuepsilon: The new default post thing is only sporadically reliable. They need to add an option to use the html by default. I'm not exactly sure why it got changed. People using noscript maybe? Whatever, it's now an unreliable pain in the ass.

THIS THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS...

Old buttons, plz. I am not getting over it.


^THIS
 
2013-03-16 07:34:45 PM  

hundreddollarman: namegoeshere: omeganuepsilon: The new default post thing is only sporadically reliable. They need to add an option to use the html by default. I'm not exactly sure why it got changed. People using noscript maybe? Whatever, it's now an unreliable pain in the ass.

THIS THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS  THIS...

Old buttons, plz. I am not getting over it.

^THIS


Bears repeating.
/maybe the squeeky wheel gets the grease
 
2013-03-16 07:36:49 PM  

Neums: I get that the headline says "special needs," but the thrust of the article (I didn't read it all, but scanned) was primarily about autistic people, right? So why use a pic of a kid with Downs?


How many different stock photos do you expect a journalist to keep in their /tard folder?

Being on Fark mine is quite well stocked of course, but let's face it, most of those don't work well in serious conversations (though GW Bush falling off a Segway would have still been a good choice for the pic)
 
2013-03-16 07:37:01 PM  
For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).
 
2013-03-16 07:37:18 PM  

december: A waitress sat me in a dining room full of screaming kids this week. I got up and walked over to the bar and ate my meal there instead. Apparently that makes me an awful person according to this woman.

The one thing parents need to remember is that the infinite patience they have for their own children does not extend to other people. No one is telling you not to love your kid. We're just telling you that we don't.


Point taken and noted.

hundreddollarman: Why do people with disabled placards on their cars drive like they're mentally disabled as well?


You noticed that too?  I thought they only gave those out to mentally handicapped people, until my fil got his.  His driving went to crap, and now I think the placard has mental disabling powers.  It starts with the self entitlement over their disability and then changes their hindsight from 20/20 to severe nearsightedness when discussing what they had done wrong.  My fil still insist the time he rear ended a woman that stopped for a r/r crossing was all her fault.
 
2013-03-16 07:42:30 PM  

NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).


It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.
 
2013-03-16 07:42:41 PM  
This article is a load of bullshiat.  I have autism.  This author is using autism as an excuse to avoid discipline and self-control.  If your kids can't behave in a socially-acceptable manner, YOU DON'T TAKE THEM OUT to places where it matters until they learn better.  And, yes, a lot of places matter.
 
2013-03-16 07:46:30 PM  

omeganuepsilon: No one expects you to, until it comes down to a damn good chance that your kids will be a problem for others.  Sure, if they do have an occasional fit but are generally well behaved, that's fine, shiat happens to everyone, "normal" kids or not, as your example shows.

The sentiment is towards all parents(all that recognize their kids are often problematic in public at any rate).  That chick with underdisciplined kids?  She's just as much at fault for taking uncontrollable kids into public.

It's not a normal people vs challenged people thing.  It's polite vs impolite.  It has nothing to do with why the kids are misbhaved, only that they are misbehaved.

For what it's worth, the people with kids that are not well disciplined, they are worse.  You can tell that it's a historical pattern, the kids know mom doesn't give a shiat and it shows.  That's not only impolite, but reprehensible because it's arguable that it's child abuse that allows the kids to act that way in the first place. "Spoil" and "rotten", as such, are used for a reason, that kind of up-bringing can have life-long adverse effects.

At least you care, and if you do have a problem in public, something tells me you may be embarrassed and apologize.  That woman with the little devil children, she never will be embarrassed, if she does apologize, it will be a token effort with no real meaning, symbolic of her whole apathetic situation.

It's all about consideration.  People that show none towards others, don't deserve the light of day, but often do deserve much of the negative attention they do get(though maybe an explanation as well).  But the odds of those fark-up/off parents actually reading or understanding what is being said is about nil anyhow.  In reality, they're the village idiot's.


I should have mentioned that I don't volunteer to the general public (er, FARK not included?) that my kids run against the brain grain. Heck, I didn't even tell the kids their own 'official' diagnosis (which changes according to government and insurance stuff) until long after I was sure it wasn't going to be used as an excuse. I don't accept that my job is to raise snowflakes- so "Kid can't do this because of diagnosis x" stuff never get off the ground. I grew up with a couple of relatives who embodied the phrase 'self fulfilling prophecy' and was certain unless we nipped that early on the same would happen to this generation, learning to live realistically with both life's beauty and brutality.

You're right, though. I do worry that I come off as a t-shirt stating diagnosis braggart. And I have apologized for the occasional sudden frequency blasting freak out, as I have calmly removed the affected child away from the situation, but usually with a "Sorry, folks." on the way out, rather than a "Please forgive that my child has a fluid diagnosis on paper, but is otherwise supersensitive to hearing someone's piggy ringtone frequency at full blast."

That said, looking through the situation via TFA mom's eyes, I did find it rude of the mom to continue to explain to the old man about her son's diagnosis, as much as I did for the old man to snap back at her in response. So there its a matter of oversensitive mom vs grumpy old man likely of the men-don't-hug generation.
 
2013-03-16 07:47:05 PM  
There are more people than I realized who think "autistic" means "some selfish asshole who doesn't realize that my enjoyment of my Chili's burger in total silence is more important than everything else combined."

I had my vacation last week disrupted twice by autistic kids. But being an adult not suffering from inflated delusions of my own importance, I took it in stride.
 
2013-03-16 07:48:11 PM  

Dr. Goldshnoz: NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).

It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.


LOL know how I know you don't know the legal definition of "Public place"

/I know
 
2013-03-16 07:50:08 PM  

Kibbler: There are more people than I realized who think "autistic" means "some selfish asshole who doesn't realize that my enjoyment of my Chili's burger in total silence is more important than everything else combined."

I had my vacation last week disrupted twice by autistic kids. But being an adult not suffering from inflated delusions of my own importance, I took it in stride.


I'm sorry you aren't that important.

/i keed
 
2013-03-16 07:56:22 PM  

Kibbler: There are more people than I realized who think "autistic" means "some selfish asshole who doesn't realize that my enjoyment of my Chili's burger in total silence is more important than everything else combined."

I had my vacation last week disrupted twice by autistic kids. But being an adult not suffering from inflated delusions of my own importance, I took it in stride.


Word, and if you get at least two strides in that's usually enough to put them through a window, works great.
 
2013-03-16 07:58:07 PM  

Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).

It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.

LOL know how I know you don't know the legal definition of "Public place"

/I know


It seems you are conflating the idea of a public restaurant, which is actually a private business on a private property, with a true public space, such as the sidewalk and street outside said restaurant.
 
2013-03-16 08:03:38 PM  

Dr. Goldshnoz: Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).

It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.

LOL know how I know you don't know the legal definition of "Public place"

/I know

It seems you are conflating the idea of a public restaurant, which is actually a private business on a private property, with a true public space, such as the sidewalk and street outside said restaurant.


A private business on private property that is open to the public is a public place, both legally and figuratively. Trust me dude, you're losing this one.
 
2013-03-16 08:06:02 PM  

Hallows_Eve: That said,


Snipped only to save space.

You come off as an admirable person.  You don't belong on Fark, GTFO.

Seriously though, you're great.
 
2013-03-16 08:20:59 PM  

Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?


You should carry a gun.
 
2013-03-16 08:25:43 PM  
My mom knew exactly what to do in these situations. She could settle down any rambunctious kid anywhere. Autistic or otherwise. She always carried around balloons in her purse. If she saw a kid getting jacked up, she'd whip out a balloon, blow it up and hand it to the kid. Saw it done many times and it never failed. Kids are mesmerized by a balloon that shows up out of nowhere. The frazzled moms always thanked my mom too.
 
2013-03-16 08:27:05 PM  

Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).

It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.

LOL know how I know you don't know the legal definition of "Public place"

/I know

It seems you are conflating the idea of a public restaurant, which is actually a private business on a private property, with a true public space, such as the sidewalk and street outside said restaurant.

A private business on private property that is open to the public is a public place, both legally and figuratively. Trust me dude, you're losing this one.


except in the restaurant i can tell you to shut the hell up because your kid is obnoxious.
 
2013-03-16 08:28:18 PM  
There's a hell of a spectrum here.

On one end is a patient I saw at my clinic last week. Autistic, essentially nonverbal. During the exam, he was crawling around on the floor, spitting and slapping his caregiver, and hooting like a loon. Those level of autistic people will never live anything you or I would consider a normal life.

On the other end, Asperger's and the like. They're normal, to any standard you can name, save one. They can get overwhelmed easily in unfamiliar scenarios- to the point of panic attacks. Socially, normally, they're fine. The most you might say is that they can be a bit distant. They live normal lives, and most won't even know anything was abnormal.

The child in this article sounds in the middle. Autistic, but normally at least approaching normal functioning. They tend to need more structure, not less- it's the only way they learn to function in a normal society. The current vogue is to go less structure, as it keeps them happy, but it's a disservice. Happy now, but they can't function in society later.

I find it interesting. Here in town was once the State Asylum. TB, mental illness, retardation, they all were there. However, they had something right- people lived with those of their ability, and were given structure and responsibility. It worked for a very long time until it closed in the 70s- now, the group homes are going back to the same ideas.

The older gent was right. He needs structure and discipline. You can't hold him to the same standards as others, but at least hold to A standard.
 
2013-03-16 08:31:07 PM  

Dr. Goldshnoz: except in the restaurant i can tell you to shut the hell up because your kid is obnoxious.


LOL hell, you can do that on a sidewalk! Disturbing the Peace happens everywhere!
 
2013-03-16 08:31:25 PM  
My son is autistic. With very intensive therapy, he's come a very long way. Even then, he has his moments. If it's something 'optional' like eating out, or an event of some sort, or something I can do later, we just leave.

Sometimes, though, I can't just do it later. My husband is only home for two weeks every two months, so I can't send someone else to do things most of the time. I make every effort I can to keep him from bothering others, which is usually inconvenient for me, but kids aren't supposed to be convenient so that just goes with the territory. Sometimes there is absolutely nothing I can do in that moment to stop the meltdown, though, and leaving isn't an option, like when we're at the clinic because my youngest has another ear infection.

It's in those moments when understanding is most appreciated. Fortunately, we have often been on the receiving end of incredible kindness. There have been many little moments of generosity that make it clear that the assholes are the minority, like the pharmacist who knows us and will let us wait in the consult room if it's crowded, or the many kind people who have let us ahead in line at busy stores when making essential purchases that can't wait for a good day.

Hallows_Eve: /kids are like little Star Trek Vulcans


I often say the same thing about my son. Logical to a fault, that one.


 
2013-03-16 08:32:21 PM  

UnspokenVoice: Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?

You should carry a gun an AR-15.


FTFY
 
2013-03-16 08:39:47 PM  

Dr. Goldshnoz: Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).

It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.

LOL know how I know you don't know the legal definition of "Public place"

/I know

It seems you are conflating the idea of a public restaurant, which is actually a private business on a private property, with a true public space, such as the sidewalk and street outside said restaurant.

A private business on private property that is open to the public is a public place, both legally and figuratively. Trust me dude, you're losing this one.

except in the restaurant i can tell you to shut the hell up because your kid is obnoxious.


You have a point in that distinction between types of "public".  A business owner can refuse service for any or no reason in most places, and simply ask those people to leave, and is therefore not true to what a real public place is.

A business that is open to the public is not quite the same as a public place.  These businesses can often participate, or have guests that participate in, things that are not legal "in public".

Alcohol consumption/drunken behavior, nudity, loudness tolerated, or quietness required, cover charges, dress code, etc.
 
2013-03-16 08:41:22 PM  
I got a kick out of this thread because my autistic kid is generally well behaved in restaurants and we try to avoid sitting near large boisterous tables of adults because they annoy me.
 
2013-03-16 08:42:52 PM  

namegoeshere: WorldCitizen: Taking someone you KNOW will not be at all quiet to a movie, even in the off times, is a bit difficult. Even if there are only 3 other people in the theater, you are still going to likely ruin the movie experience for those 3 other people. Should the disabled kid who can't be quiet be expected to go through life never seeing a movie in a theater? No. Do the people who pay to see a movie deserve to have their movie watching experience disrupted throughout the movie? No.

Two solutions: 1) drive-in. 2) find a free family movie festival. They're full of kids, and kind of noisy, which is expected. And it's much easier to be tolerant of off behavior when it's a free second-run movie than a movie that you paid for and only just recently found time to go see.


3) There are a number of movie chains (Rave Cinemas being one I'm personally aware of who does this) who have special movie showings for people with sensory integration issues (including people with autism)--which means that one isn't necessarily restricted to second-run motion pictures and there are options where "free family movie festivals" and drive-ins are rare or flat-out nonexistant.
 
2013-03-16 08:43:50 PM  

Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: except in the restaurant i can tell you to shut the hell up because your kid is obnoxious.

LOL hell, you can do that on a sidewalk! Disturbing the Peace happens everywhere!


I think the difference is that a restaurant is somewhere that other people have paid for dinner, and have a reasonable expectation of civility. A parent whose child is yelling and generally causing a distraction has a social obligation to remove that child from the restaurant.

This is different from the sidewalk, where other people can just walk away from the situation, without losing any money for their meal/time/babysitter, etc.
 
2013-03-16 08:54:42 PM  
I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.
 
2013-03-16 08:59:22 PM  
Same rules apply as for small children. It's that simple.
 
2013-03-16 08:59:25 PM  

Mikey1969: I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.


Which is good, because thinking people hate you.
 
2013-03-16 09:00:36 PM  

omeganuepsilon: There are two sides to that coin that you're conveniently neglecting.  Problematic Behavior =/= Problematic Brain

Many frigid and neglectful parents do indeed end up with kids that are, on the surface, indistinguishable from the mentally handicapped. Their symptoms can be mild to downright farked up.  Having been capable of learning, but having no adequate teacher can yield a person that's troubled for their entire life.

Add to that, many doctors diagnose based on symptomatic behavior alone, not on catscans/MRI or other means of testing structure and function.

Your "debunking" is hardly what you make it seem.  Yes, it does not cause actual autism.  It can cause some severe developmental problems that are decidedly similar that can be mistaken as.(and what the guy you were replying to was talking about).

It's humorous because you're attempting to pretend you're superior, but are evidently inferior.


media.comicvine.com
 
2013-03-16 09:03:08 PM  
I'm disabled. Most of you don't have me despairing. SOme o the rest of you have me laughing.

But a few of you are just genuine selfish jerks.

/At this stage, nothing of value to add beyond that.
 
2013-03-16 09:05:53 PM  

Madbassist1: The headline is farking brilliant as it is. One of the best I have ever read.


I'm not sure I'd call the headline  itself "brilliant"; what is brilliant is that the article is entirely & accurately summarized in two short sentences.
 
2013-03-16 09:09:23 PM  

feanorn: Madbassist1: The headline is farking brilliant as it is. One of the best I have ever read.

I'm not sure I'd call the headline  itself "brilliant"; what is brilliant is that the article is entirely & accurately summarized in two short sentences.


I think what's brilliant is that subby refused to go for the low hanging fruit that could have been had here.

I mean, think of all the problems that could be solved if we just made the autistic wear shock collars.
 
2013-03-16 09:12:49 PM  

cptjeff: Mikey1969: I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.

Which is good, because thinking people hate you.


Jesus. That's the best you can come up with? You need to go back to rebuttal 101, you suck at this.
 
2013-03-16 09:13:28 PM  

Mikey1969: Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.


So, if I go out to dinner with someone, I should just cope with a repeatedly yelling, bouncing child at the next table? And the parent does nothing about it? Fark that.

The problem in this instance isn't the child, he can't help it.
 
2013-03-16 09:13:55 PM  
I'm going to side with the mother in this instance.  Although not all the information is in the article, a hamburger and fries are mentioned and I'll infer from that a fast food place.  Also early morning is mentioned along with very few patrons.  I will again infer the mom has done her diligence in minimizing the impact of her kid on the community.

This typifies the fine line between the need for tolerance and consideration.  It's a judgment call.  I'd like to think an elder gentleman would be the type to seek the high ground in that circumstance.  If the mother and kid were crossing the line into inconsideration, I'd like to think she would recognize it and take appropriate steps.
 
2013-03-16 09:14:45 PM  
My issue with the article is she takes exception to "I heard you the first time." He could have reacted way worse and there is no way the author knows what was going on in the gentlemen's life. Maybe he was having a shiatty day.

You told him your child was autistic..he verbally accepted that without arguement or complaint. Could he have been nicer? Probably. But to take exception with "I heard you the first time." Is rediculous. Take an internal memo of "what a jerk" and move on like everybody else.
 
2013-03-16 09:17:10 PM  

Mikey1969: cptjeff: Mikey1969: I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.

Which is good, because thinking people hate you.

Jesus. That's the best you can come up with? You need to go back to rebuttal 101, you suck at this.


The problem is that I'm tired and haven't eaten yet, and there was too much stupid packed into your post for me to bother with any sort of real response.
 
2013-03-16 09:22:01 PM  

Frederick: Although not all the information is in the article, a hamburger and fries are mentioned and I'll infer from that a fast food place. Also early morning is mentioned along with very few patrons.


You didn't read the article at all, did you?
 
2013-03-16 09:23:13 PM  

Dr. Goldshnoz: except in the restaurant i can tell you to shut the hell up because your kid is obnoxious


You don't see your own behaviour as obnoxious ?

Here let me help you...

ob·nox·ious adjective
1.highly objectionable or offensive; odious:obno xious behavior.
2.annoying or objectionable due to being a showoff or attracting undue attention to oneself:
an obnoxious little brat.
3.Archaic .exposed or liable to harm, evil, or anythingobjectionable.
4.Obsolete. liable to punishment or censure; reprehensible.

//ITG - if you tell my kid to shut the hell up, Ill shut you the fark up
/ get over yourself you self entitled biatch
 
2013-03-16 09:23:58 PM  

cptjeff: The problem is that I'm tired and haven't eaten yet


Probably because there was an autistic child at the next table.
 
2013-03-16 09:31:03 PM  

Madbassist1: Dr. Goldshnoz: NaziKamikaze: For a group of people that are seemingly antisocial and never leave the basement, there sure are a lot of sensitive biatches on Fark.

Kid's autistic, he might get a little annoying., but at least he's got an excuse.  You don't.  Deal with it, don't whine and cry about how your serenity is being destroyed in public (which is idiotic to expect anyway).

It's BECAUSE we never leave the basement we REALLY cherish those nights out. Also, a restaurant is not public, as in say, a park, or a street corner.

LOL know how I know you don't know the legal definition of "Public place"

/I know


Simple litmus test. If you can't masturbate without being arrested, it's public.
 
2013-03-16 09:31:36 PM  

phishrace: My mom knew exactly what to do in these situations. She could settle down any rambunctious kid anywhere. Autistic or otherwise. She always carried around balloons in her purse. If she saw a kid getting jacked up, she'd whip out a balloon, blow it up and hand it to the kid. Saw it done many times and it never failed. Kids are mesmerized by a balloon that shows up out of nowhere. The frazzled moms always thanked my mom too.


Your mom sounds cool.
Give her a hug

//and a balloon
 
2013-03-16 09:33:28 PM  

MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?


Because clearly there are only two alternatives: Either let autistic kids run amok in public and everyone else just has to smile and suffer; or lock them away never to be seen again. And there is no point in trying to find a comfortable middle ground.

Maybe, just maybe, both sides are wrong. It's entirely possible that parents should be expected to control their children--autistic, wheelchair-bound, or supposedly normal--when in public; and that others should acknowledge that children will be children and may need more than one correction before they sit in total silence in a restaurant or movie theater.

If you are such an asshole parent that you think Jimmie should be able to do anything he wants in public because he's autistic, then you should know you're not doing him any favors: He's going to have to exist in public all his life, and he needs to learn some modicum of acceptable social behavior WHILE YOU'RE THERE so that someday he can do it when you're not. That's the idea, I hope, and your eventual goal. And if you are such an asshole human that you can't accept that there are children and disabled people in the world who don't behave precisely like YOU think they should, then you need to move to a remote island so they won't be around to bother you, because there are more of them than you.

But both sides need to accept they're not the center of the universe and they're equally being assholes by insisting the world conform to them.
 
2013-03-16 09:34:18 PM  
I'm sorry I was born with a small penis. Doesn't give me the right to wave it around in the fruit aisle at the supermarket.
/Or does it?
 
2013-03-16 09:36:10 PM  
Tonight, on a very, very special Fark thread...
 
2013-03-16 09:37:55 PM  

Gyrfalcon: But both sides need to accept they're not the center of the universe and they're equally being assholes by insisting the world conform to them


^^^

this
 
2013-03-16 09:38:41 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: I'm sorry I was born with a small penis


TMI
 
2013-03-16 09:47:21 PM  
Autism? Don't they have a vaccine for that?
 
2013-03-16 09:48:09 PM  

oh_please: Frederick: Although not all the information is in the article, a hamburger and fries are mentioned and I'll infer from that a fast food place. Also early morning is mentioned along with very few patrons.

You didn't read the article at all, did you?


I read page one of two, not realizing it was two pages.  What did I miss?
 
2013-03-16 09:49:08 PM  

hardinparamedic: Yes, it does not cause actual autism.  It can cause some severe developmental problems that are decidedly similar that can be mistaken as.(and what the guy you were replying to was talking about).

It's humorous because you're attempting to pretend you're superior, but are evidently inferior.


Ah, you're one of those people that simply writes off those that disagree with you as a troll.  You win the internet.

Well, if we're judging on hypocrisy and/or delusion at any rate.
 
2013-03-16 09:52:34 PM  

omeganuepsilon: hardinparamedic: Yes, it does not cause actual autism.  It can cause some severe developmental problems that are decidedly similar that can be mistaken as.(and what the guy you were replying to was talking about).

It's humorous because you're attempting to pretend you're superior, but are evidently inferior.

Ah, you're one of those people that simply writes off those that disagree with you as a troll.  You win the internet.

Well, if we're judging on hypocrisy and/or delusion at any rate.


I spent the rest of the dinner constantly shushing Jonah, even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night in a casual eatery so we wouldn't have to hold any of the kids to impossible standards of behavior.

Dinner, 6 on a thursday night...

While "casual eatery" might be fast food, the fact that they're sitting and waiting on food to arrive seems to imply the opposite of fast food.
 
2013-03-16 09:53:31 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Yep. 6-8 pm is prime time seating in many restaurants. Go there early or go there late on Wed - Sun if you have a kid that you know can't control themselves. I shouldn't have to put up with your kids issues. You're the one who decided to have a kid and you lost the crap shoot on making a good one, them's the risks that you undertook and you have to pay the price when you lose. Not me.


Are you implying that autism = not a good one?

My son has mild autism (yup, real autism, not self-diagnosed Asperger's).  When he was disruptive in restaurants, his mom or I would remove him and the other would get the to-go boxes and the check.  If he was disruptive in a movie theater, one of us took him outside.  He doesn't do that any more.  We parented, he made the connection between behavior and undesirable consequences, presto.

He's 18 now, and is doing well despite a few social blind spots and problems with executive function.  He's working hard on those.  He's a kind and decent human being.

/tl;dr version:  Fark you, I won the crap shoot on making a good kid.
 
2013-03-16 10:01:59 PM  

Matthew Keene: Here's a question to ponder. You're out in public, and some autistic crotchfruit smacks you hard from behind, and the mother tells you to deal with it because her child is just 'acting out.' What would you do about it?


certainly wouldn't take it out on the child. if the mother actually used the phrase "deal with it" shed get a piece of my mind
 
2013-03-16 10:02:40 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces while handicapped people make handicapped faces...


Sometimes I wreck the fark outta car doors with my cane when ineligible jackasses park in handicapped spaces knowing damn well they don't need it and aren't qualified for it.

/No, not ITG - I most certainlly have done.  Cause the level of pain I get to experience when I have to walk that much further needs to be shared with them that inflict it.
//No, I don't just assume - I know not all disabilities glow in the dark.  I'm talking about people I stop, inquire with when they disable no plates/placards, that proceed to tell me to fark off cause they're in a hurry or whatever, no sane reason given, and screw handicapped parking.  (I've nodded and walked away with frantic mothers running in to buy meds for sick kids, etc. - I'm not a total loon.)
///Yeah, really - 4 times thusfar have people been that messed up in the head.  Course I suppose I have no room to discuss possible mental abberation considering the retaliation I've engaged in, but it doesn't make them any less of a bunch of screaming arseholes.
 
2013-03-16 10:05:15 PM  
Wow...the first mom, I don't see that she did anything wrong. The curmudgeonly old dude tried to shush
someone who was not being all that loud and was not at his table. The mom apologized, told the guy that
her kid was autistic and not intentionally trying to be disruptive.

The one where the security guard told the sister not to bring her brother back unless he was on a leash,
the guard was out of line with his comments but the sister knew her brother tended to be grabby with
the hot food trays. She should have kept an eye on him.

The dude that refused to serve the table that moved away from the family with the Downs Syndrome kid?
Kudos.

My oldest son is the one who had the volatile behavior issues. My youngest, not so much. The only issues
we ever really had was once at Sweet Tomatoes when he got freaked out by our server who had a
mustache. We were a party of 12 or so and my son started crying (he was an infant). I was in the process
of calming him down and almost had him calm when the manager asked me and my son to leave. I said
sure, no problem. I'll bring him back in when he is calm. She said, "No - we've had a number of complaints.
You can't bring him back in.". Keep in mind, the time between my son getting scared and him calming down
to barely a whimper was less than a few minutes.

So I got to walk the gauntlet with my kid and go hang outside for an hour. The "number" of complaints? One
crotchety dried up old prune sitting behind us.
 
2013-03-16 10:06:22 PM  

sendbillmoney: Radioactive Ass: 
/tl;dr version:  Fark you, I won the crap shoot on making a good kid.


Wow, that's positive thinking gone aggressively wrong.

"Good" is subjective, and in this subject, a valid word for a kid without issues.  No one is saying you had a "bad" kid, only that he's not "normal".  Thousands of parents fail to have "good" kids.

That's what I find funny in any liberal topic, people who are so quick to take offense, it's almost as if that's what they show up for.  There are at least ten intentionally offensive posts in this thread, maybe even one or two directed at you, not some anon stranger, that you could have validly pulled out the "fark you" on.  You chose one that really wansn't out of line.  A defect is a defect, making that handi-capable argument may be good for your kid's confidence, but really doesn't fit in a conversation that's about kids, in general, that might be similar.

That's what 18 years of false positivity (Ie lying to yourself because you can't cope with the honest truth) can do to a person.
 
2013-03-16 10:06:59 PM  

sendbillmoney: When he was disruptive in restaurants, his mom or I would remove him and the other would get the to-go boxes and the check. If he was disruptive in a movie theater, one of us took him outside. He doesn't do that any more. We parented, he made the connection between behavior and undesirable consequences, presto.


You are the parent that the author of TFA is not. Hats off to you.
 
2013-03-16 10:08:34 PM  

digitalrain: The mom apologized, told the guy that
her kid was autistic and [you skipped the part where the guy apologized and she continued to press the issue] not intentionally trying to be disruptive.


Just sayin.
 
2013-03-16 10:09:17 PM  

omeganuepsilon: digitalrain: The mom apologized, told the guy that
her kid was autistic and [you skipped the part where the guy apologized and she continued to press the issue] not intentionally trying to be disruptive.

Just sayin.


You're right. I did. My mistake.
 
2013-03-16 10:21:55 PM  

sendbillmoney: He doesn't do that any more.  We parented, he made the connection between behavior and undesirable consequences, presto.


That's fantastic, and what I don't get in most of these cases: OK, your kid has issues that make him/her different than others, I get that.  But unless they are so low-functioning as to be nearly catatonic, they're capable of learning the idea that actions have consequences.  It might take longer, but the lessons are going to stick eventually.
 
2013-03-16 10:22:38 PM  

JWideman: Fark no longer quotes only the highlighted text


Try again.
 
2013-03-16 10:23:06 PM  

bborchar: My friend's brother-in-law seems to be a high-functioning sociopath- he's very smart (he's an engineer, and he works with my husband at the lab); but he's also extremely moronic when it comes to interacting with people.  He's a leper at work, and while you feel sorry for him, when you meet him, it's VERY hard to like him.  He makes inappropriate comments to my friend (he went into the private room where she was nursing her son and started talking about her breasts the other day), and he charged a lot of porn to the company card and turned in on his statement.  He's a grown man, and has no friends and can't get a girlfriend.  It really is sad...but no one can stand to be around him.  However, his mother still babies him and begs everyone to spend time with him.

It's a sad reality, but people who don't function well in our society are going to be outcasts...and society won't change for them.  It's hard to be friends with someone who doesn't understand boundaries.  As a mother, I completely understand wanting people to like your child and being heartbroken when they don't...but as a member of society, it's impossible to welcome everyone in when they are so difficult to deal with.  It's a very thin line, and there's not a lot of help for people who have to walk it.


Your friends brother sounds a lot like my dad,my dad can be quite inappropriate, fortunately  not as far to follow a nursing woman and discuss her breasts. He does occasionally bring up he and my mother's intimate relationship details up to me(his daughter) and occasionally will make comments about my breasts,hips or butt(not in the last few years though). When I am over with my brother and his wife, my father will dominate the conversation. As would occasionally be expected,  my brother and his wife can contribute to it. I, however, will often be shut down with a "stop interrupting, I'm talking", which is offensive and frustrating as I don't  get to participate much.He doesn't much interact with people now as he is quite ill and essentially housebound. Occasionally, I have to help him to the doctor, and it is a dreaded event largely because of his obnoxious behavior.
 
2013-03-16 10:48:56 PM  

sendbillmoney: Are you implying that autism = not a good one?

My son has mild autism (yup, real autism, not self-diagnosed Asperger's). When he was disruptive in restaurants, his mom or I would remove him and the other would get the to-go boxes and the check. If he was disruptive in a movie theater, one of us took him outside. He doesn't do that any more. We parented, he made the connection between behavior and undesirable consequences, presto.

He's 18 now, and is doing well despite a few social blind spots and problems with executive function. He's working hard on those. He's a kind and decent human being.

/tl;dr version: Fark you, I won the crap shoot on making a good kid.


Congrats. You just bit on a troll comment. No Autism is not a "Bad one" but it is a difficult one that needs more from the parent that a "Normal" one does. Those are the facts of life that a responsible person understands when deciding to have a child. A kid is a long haul situation that will have many unexpected twists and turns.

My point was that every kid is different and it's the parents job to deal with those differences. Not mine in a situation that a responsible parent should be avoiding when they know the likely issues. I raised my kid to be polite and well mannered in public, I used the same methods as my parents used. Attention, love and discipline in the required amounts to make a good person. It's the "Required amounts" that helicopter parents are lacking judgements in. You sound like you don't fit in that category.

I'm quite happy that you personally have found that balance and I can only wish the best for you and yours and hope that your kid can keep it up. I honestly mean that.
 
2013-03-16 10:49:45 PM  

sendbillmoney: He's 18 now, and is doing well despite a few social blind spots and problems with executive function. He's working hard on those. He's a kind and decent human being.


Yeah... I'd still keep him away from guns.
 
2013-03-16 10:56:19 PM  

octopied: I, however, will often be shut down with a "stop interrupting, I'm talking", which is offensive and frustrating as I don't  get to participate much.


I was going to comment on the relevant part of the article.  A lot of people are that way. They find weak or ineffectual(as they percieve them, not saying you are weak) people disturbing or annoying, not worth their time.

I find that many times, these people are actually instigating and appreciate when people push past that barrier and speak anyhow.

I can't fault the perspective, as it's somewhat natural not necessarily an matter of choice, rather a common personality archtype.  It can bring out the best in meek people, by challenging them to grow a pair, as it were.

The psychology is that the weak are not worth the time, so they need to be tested before their given due respect, IE listened to seriously.  Goes back to tribal man, I would think, where group survival depended on confidence and strength/ability.  It's also a sign of intelligence, though on a less conscious level.  Unfortunately it led to the also natural evolution of bluster or lying through your teeth.

From the simple stories relayed though, I can't tell.  Whether the guy in the article or your dad, sure, maybe they are more simple sadists, but in my travels, I see that's sort of a rare thing, true sadism. ( I think that's a mutation of the drive to test others)

One only likes to watch you squirm, and the other wants you to get mad so that you stand up for yourself(but can also find enjoyment in the process).

Not sure if the guy in the article is really that much of an asshole.  It's very evident of the effect it had on the mom, it actually made her feel bad, as she did try to keep the child quiet after that.  She sounds like she resents the reality check.

In addition, a lot of people don't like people who make excuses or sycophanticly try to make nice, boils down to the same lack of respect for the weak and those who make mistakes.
 
2013-03-16 11:12:23 PM  
BRB- going to kiss my birth control pills that allow me to not have children.
 
2013-03-16 11:16:42 PM  
CONGRATULATIONS!

YOU WIN THE PRIZE!!
 
2013-03-16 11:17:56 PM  

octopied:
Your friends brother sounds a lot like my dad,my dad can be quite inappropriate, fortunately  not as far to follow a nursing woman and discuss her breasts. He does occasionally bring up he and my mother's intimate relationship details up to me(his daughter) and occasionally will make comments about my breasts,hips or butt...


*immediately clicks profile*
"Damn, no picture!"
*closes window*
 
2013-03-16 11:25:12 PM  

oh_please: Mikey1969: Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

So, if I go out to dinner with someone, I should just cope with a repeatedly yelling, bouncing child at the next table? And the parent does nothing about it? Fark that.

The problem in this instance isn't the child, he can't help it.


No, the problem is with someone who can't move on past shiat. I go to restaurants and deal with loud people out for some major drinking, or watching sports on TV. I don't feel so entitled that I feel the need to make these people leave.

You, on the other hand, seem exactly that way. The kids aren't that loud, and it's easy enough to ignore if you stop shouting "Me! Me! Me!" at the top of your lungs.
 
2013-03-16 11:26:21 PM  
did i miss something? the old guy shushed him the author walked over to explain the old guy apologized and instead of going back to her happy little dinner she started giving more explanation than necessary old guy didnt need or care to hear a 10 min explanation and told her so. sounds to me he understood or at least would have left it alone after that but she let herself ruin her night because it was a bigger issue to her than to him
 
2013-03-16 11:26:56 PM  

cptjeff: Mikey1969: cptjeff: Mikey1969: I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.

Which is good, because thinking people hate you.

Jesus. That's the best you can come up with? You need to go back to rebuttal 101, you suck at this.

The problem is that I'm tired and haven't eaten yet, and there was too much stupid packed into your post for me to bother with any sort of real response.


Well, that's marginally better, but it has the ring of group participation to it, as if you got a whole room of morons to help you craft it.
 
2013-03-16 11:30:00 PM  
Kids makes noise.
Guy says "shhh"
Dad says he's autistic.
Shhh guy says he's sorry.

Story over, we're all cool, right?

How does this result in full-length story and a 7 page thread?
 
2013-03-16 11:33:34 PM  

Cup_O_Jo: thenumber5: Cup_O_Jo: #1. Autism from what I have learned in the last years is not a DISABILITY. I am disabled. I have MS.
Please don't compare me to the Mentally "disabled". I would appreciate it. Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.
#2. I don't get a free pass to do whatever I want. If I forget my cane and fall onto someone's wedding cake---"oh sorry" is not going to work. Instead I go places prepared to handle my condition whatever it is that day.
#3. All people mentioned had a caretaker. Maybe the Mom should have been sitting closer to her son-paying more attention to him. Maybe the sister should have her brother on a leash. And maybe the writer should understand I don't want your teenage sons grubby hands all in my freaking salad bar.
This article to me is one of those "it takes a village to raise a child and my child (ect) is autisitic so you should learn how to deal with it. WHEN in fact people should be learning how to handle it themselves, Society is nerfed enough. Yes, we understand your child has special needs however, you need to understand YOU are going to have to do extra work to have them in society.


I really get annoyed at people with a "Visible Disability" think they are more deserving of help and basic compassion then someone with a non-visible disability

if i say i cant do something because this is a my leg/knee is hurting a lot that day, i get "O you have a bad limp sorry"

if i say i cant doing something because my anxiety is currently at 11 and it is taken every fiber of my being to not shut down, i get told "Suck it up"

Actually MS is invisible. If I don't have my cane. I don't look disabled. So what is your point? I think it is funny that people  took my comment to mean that physically disabled are better than mentally disabled.. BTW you are not mentally disabled you are mentally ill. AGAIN a third different thing. I am not saying one disability is better than another. What I am saying is do not lump them all in together. See today I gave you a leg up. I gave you an illness instead of a disability. TADAH.

BTW I am also responding to Mr. Angry=ReverendJynx get the fark over yourself man. You are reading way to much in to shiat.


With all do respect I disagree with you. All illnesses are from a physical origin. Mental illness usually has a brain chemical imbalance. Brain chemical imbalance and structural reformatted can cause learning disabilities. Physical disabilities are caused by structural problems and/or chemical problems. So again all are physical in origin. When someone is mentally I'll they see a doctor and go to therapy to fix it or learn how to lie with it. Same concept applies to the physically disabled. Those with physical disabilities go to specialty doctors who cure them or help them learn how to live with their illness. I see no major difference between mental illness, physical illness, and developmental illnesses. Also all three have varying levels of severity. I hope this makes sense.
 
2013-03-16 11:34:00 PM  
I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.
 
2013-03-16 11:34:31 PM  

Mercury: BRB- going to kiss my birth control pills that allow me to not have children.


Im guessing it isnt the pills that allows this
 
2013-03-16 11:35:54 PM  

Smarshmallow: PsiChick:  I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome

How do you know this, if it hasn't been diagnosed?


I farted a lot today. I have undiagnosed colon cancer. Give me money.
 
2013-03-16 11:38:11 PM  

WanPhat: Kids makes noise.
Guy says "shhh"
Dad says he's autistic.
Shhh guy says he's sorry.

Story over, we're all cool, right?

How does this result in full-length story and a 7 page thread?


Well first, it was a mom, not a dad, but second, we end up with a seven page thread because the mom is apparently also autistic and couldn't just accept the old man's apology and return to her dinner.  She was winding up a lecture and the old man cut her off, ruining her evening because she didn't get to give the old man an earful of how important and special her child is.

The entire article boils down to the author being a grade-a biatch because she wasn't allowed to lecture a man who had already apologized.  Also, reading between the lines, her child was misbehaving badly enough to affect other diners, but since it wasn't, in her opinion, excessive, she didn't think it was an issue.  It's possible she was correct, but considering the old man apologized readily once learning the child was autistic, I'm going to make the educated guess that the kid was being a complete ass and the mom was not at all dealing with it, and now is writing an article simply to make herself feel better.

Again, not sure the autism apple fell far from the tree there.
 
2013-03-16 11:39:53 PM  

Dr. Whoof: WanPhat: Kids makes noise.
Guy says "shhh"
Dad says he's autistic.
Shhh guy says he's sorry.

Story over, we're all cool, right?

How does this result in full-length story and a 7 page thread?

Well first, it was a mom, not a dad, but second, we end up with a seven page thread because the mom is apparently also autistic and couldn't just accept the old man's apology and return to her dinner.  She was winding up a lecture and the old man cut her off, ruining her evening because she didn't get to give the old man an earful of how important and special her child is.

The entire article boils down to the author being a grade-a biatch because she wasn't allowed to lecture a man who had already apologized.  Also, reading between the lines, her child was misbehaving badly enough to affect other diners, but since it wasn't, in her opinion, excessive, she didn't think it was an issue.  It's possible she was correct, but considering the old man apologized readily once learning the child was autistic, I'm going to make the educated guess that the kid was being a complete ass and the mom was not at all dealing with it, and now is writing an article simply to make herself feel better.

Again, not sure the autism apple fell far from the tree there.


While I agree with most of what you say, I feel your post is slightly insulting to people who have autism.

The mother wasn't autistic; she was just a self-centred, narcissistic biatch.
 
2013-03-16 11:40:35 PM  

WhippingBoy: I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.


Wait, what? Your kids are probably going to grow up normal and fit right in with the rest of society. What kind of monster parents are you???
 
2013-03-16 11:47:47 PM  
Austism is just a made up disease used to cover for the parent's inability or unwillingness to disciple their little crotchfruits.
 
2013-03-16 11:48:40 PM  

WhippingBoy: Smarshmallow: PsiChick:  I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome

How do you know this, if it hasn't been diagnosed?

I farted a lot today. I have undiagnosed colon cancer. Give me money.


But you can't help it, so it's OK! You should sit in a restaurant next to the folks in this thread who believe that people have a licence to do what they want, where they want, simply because they can't help it. I'm sure they wouldn't mind in the slightest. If they turn their nose up at the stench while they are trying to enjoy their meal, make sure you remind them how heartless they are.
 
2013-03-16 11:49:16 PM  

WhippingBoy: While I agree with most of what you say, I feel your post is slightly insulting to people who have autism.

The mother wasn't autistic; she was just a self-centred, narcissistic biatch.


Can you be sure of that?  Because based on the article, she sounds like she may have undiagnosed mild autism herself.  She can't seem to understand what's acceptable public behavior and what isn't.  She clearly couldn't tell her son was being disruptive.  And autism, or the risk for autism, is inheritable.

So, no, basically I'm insulting this author and suggesting they get themselves checked out, as I would forgive them completely for their ignorance and need to drive home a point with a person who had already apologized if they were themselves autistic...but if not, then yest, they are a self-centered, narcissistic biatch who will likely raise an autistic child at a far lower functional level than the child deserves.
 
2013-03-16 11:54:22 PM  

Smarshmallow: PsiChick:  I had undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome

How do you know this, if it hasn't been diagnosed?


The word 'had' is past tense. It was diagnosed around eighteen or so. I have Asperger's, but I don't usually display symptoms anymore, and I wasn't displaying a lot at diagnosis, because my mother taught me a lot of what I was missing. I only had to work for a few months to bump up past 'Asperger's' to just 'weirdo' territory.
 
2013-03-16 11:56:20 PM  
Jeez, lady. He said he was sorry. And then you couldn't let it drop. You had to go on, so he got snitty. And here you are not letting drop and going on again.
 
2013-03-16 11:56:27 PM  

SpaceBison: Austism is just a made up disease used to cover for the parent's inability or unwillingness to disciple their little crotchfruits.


Tell us more, Dr. SpaceBIson. Want to explain how schizophrenics really just have a different view of the world, and depressives just need more vitamins and exercise?
 
2013-03-16 11:56:48 PM  

Dr. Whoof: WhippingBoy: While I agree with most of what you say, I feel your post is slightly insulting to people who have autism.

The mother wasn't autistic; she was just a self-centred, narcissistic biatch.

Can you be sure of that?  Because based on the article, she sounds like she may have undiagnosed mild autism herself.  She can't seem to understand what's acceptable public behavior and what isn't.  She clearly couldn't tell her son was being disruptive.  And autism, or the risk for autism, is inheritable.

So, no, basically I'm insulting this author and suggesting they get themselves checked out, as I would forgive them completely for their ignorance and need to drive home a point with a person who had already apologized if they were themselves autistic...but if not, then yest, they are a self-centered, narcissistic biatch who will likely raise an autistic child at a far lower functional level than the child deserves.


The thing is, I'm starting to realize how much of my life I've wasted being "open minded". I don't care what her issue is. It's HER problem. Not mine.
 
2013-03-17 12:07:34 AM  

WhippingBoy: The thing is, I'm starting to realize how much of my life I've wasted being "open minded". I don't care what her issue is. It's HER problem. Not mine.


Indeed it is.  And if we were in the restaurant with her and not on a discussion board, I think we both would have told her to stick her lecture up her ass.

My primary issue with her is that she knows NOTHING about the man in the restaurant.  She told him that the kid was autistic and he apologized...to try to explain more is being patronizing.  She deserved the shaming and maybe should accept that people are bright enough to know what "autistic" means.  Quite honestly, she's lucky he didn't tell her to shut her cock holster and go sit down, considering at that point both her and her son were ruining his dinner.
 
2013-03-17 12:10:40 AM  

Gyrfalcon: WhippingBoy: I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.

Wait, what? Your kids are probably going to grow up normal and fit right in with the rest of society. What kind of monster parents are you???


I hope they do grow up normal. And I'm optimistic that they will, because, as their father, I have to be.

However, if by some chance they *don't*, then they don't get some of the nice things that "typical" members of society get.

Whoever said that "everyone is equal" needs a level-5 cock-punch.
 
2013-03-17 12:12:37 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.



This ^^^^^
 
2013-03-17 12:19:54 AM  

BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.


I was a little on the fence until I saw that part. Can you imagine that crowd at the movies? C'mon now, they cant possibly wait until Saw 5000 has a "special kid showing," or HEAVEN FORBID they wait until it comes out on DVD?
 
2013-03-17 12:20:24 AM  
I'm late to the party on this one, but here it goes...

In a public situation where you (or your dependent) disturb someone and get scolded for it, there are actually two assholes involved:
1. You
2. Them
 
2013-03-17 12:27:29 AM  

Frederick: I'm going to side with the mother in this instance.  Although not all the information is in the article, a hamburger and fries are mentioned and I'll infer from that a fast food place.  Also early morning is mentioned along with very few patrons.  I will again infer the mom has done her diligence in minimizing the impact of her kid on the community.

This typifies the fine line between the need for tolerance and consideration.  It's a judgment call.  I'd like to think an elder gentleman would be the type to seek the high ground in that circumstance.  If the mother and kid were crossing the line into inconsideration, I'd like to think she would recognize it and take appropriate steps.


wanna know how I know you didn't read the article?
 
2013-03-17 12:29:05 AM  
Came here for scantily clad pics of Jenny McCarthy.

/Leaving disappointed.
 
2013-03-17 12:35:42 AM  

andychrist420: Frederick: I'm going to side with the mother in this instance.  Although not all the information is in the article, a hamburger and fries are mentioned and I'll infer from that a fast food place.  Also early morning is mentioned along with very few patrons.  I will again infer the mom has done her diligence in minimizing the impact of her kid on the community.

This typifies the fine line between the need for tolerance and consideration.  It's a judgment call.  I'd like to think an elder gentleman would be the type to seek the high ground in that circumstance.  If the mother and kid were crossing the line into inconsideration, I'd like to think she would recognize it and take appropriate steps.

wanna know how I know you didn't read the article?


yes, I would
 
2013-03-17 12:36:37 AM  

Mikey1969: cptjeff: Mikey1969: cptjeff: Mikey1969: I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.

Which is good, because thinking people hate you.

Jesus. That's the best you can come up with? You need to go back to rebuttal 101, you suck at this.

The problem is that I'm tired and haven't eaten yet, and there was too much stupid packed into your post for me to bother with any sort of real response.

Well, that's marginally better, but it has the ring of group participation to it, as if you got a whole room of morons to help you craft it.


Look, as much as you may want to get into a flame war, I make it a policy to not fight against unarmed opponents. Grow a brain first, then get back to me.
 
2013-03-17 12:36:39 AM  

rugman11: PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.

Our local theatre has started introducing special showings for the "differently abled."  They keep the house lights up a little more and the sound down a little bit, while also allowing kids to move around and make noise.  They've apparently gotten good feedback.

http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/14/2556527/warren-to-screen-movie-for- ki ds.html


Now that's an excellent idea. Have "differently abled" nights at movies, family-friendly restaurants, etc. Everybody wins!
 
2013-03-17 12:37:39 AM  

4seasons85!: With all do respect I disagree with you. All illnesses are from a physical origin.


I will take issue with that, but it comes down to how you define illness and origin.

You can take young person who's 100% healthy, and by words alone(or rather, external stimuli), raise them in such a manner as they will have some severe psychological issues.  Many would deem that an illness, and a nonphysical origin, Ie no malformations of the brain or biological systems were involved with the creation of the illness.

Sure, the brain is based on a physical body and stores memories via chemicals and such, but the origin is not, as you seem to imply, from some malformation or abnormality in the brain, only the external input.

You can create a virtual retard or psychopath, based on how you raise a child.

That's the root of the nature vs nurture debate, which in general, either, or both, can be a heavy influence.

The problem is determining the actual cause of such states as retardation or psychopathy.  There is only so much we can actually examine physically, and even less of the past interaction that we can actually know.

We do know external stimuli can overload the brain and cause severe problems, both in the short term and the long term.  We also know that concrete physical differences can be irrevocable, even if a very mild divergence from the norm is had.

/don't anyone get riled that I say "retard", it's a vague word meant with no malice
//unless you are a retard and the shoe happens to fit, in which case, sorry about your luck
 
2013-03-17 12:41:32 AM  

Frederick: oh_please: Frederick: Although not all the information is in the article, a hamburger and fries are mentioned and I'll infer from that a fast food place. Also early morning is mentioned along with very few patrons.

You didn't read the article at all, did you?

I read page one of two, not realizing it was two pages.  What did I miss?


Well, right on the first page it says that they went to a casual restaurant, where one sits down and has food delivered to their table and, it was Thursday at 6pm.  They do serve burgers and fries at a variety of establishments.
 
2013-03-17 12:45:50 AM  

Gyrfalcon: SpaceBison: Austism is just a made up disease used to cover for the parent's inability or unwillingness to disciple their little crotchfruits.

Tell us more, Dr. SpaceBIson. Want to explain how schizophrenics really just have a different view of the world, and depressives just need more vitamins and exercise?


What do schizos and depressed people have to do with being a spoiled brat?
 
2013-03-17 12:51:53 AM  

SpaceBison: Gyrfalcon: SpaceBison: Austism is just a made up disease used to cover for the parent's inability or unwillingness to disciple their little crotchfruits.

Tell us more, Dr. SpaceBIson. Want to explain how schizophrenics really just have a different view of the world, and depressives just need more vitamins and exercise?

What do schizos and depressed people have to do with being a spoiled brat?


I have no idea, but why did you feel the need to make this discussion about you?
 
2013-03-17 12:53:20 AM  

chrylis: SpaceBison: Gyrfalcon: SpaceBison: Austism is just a made up disease used to cover for the parent's inability or unwillingness to disciple their little crotchfruits.

Tell us more, Dr. SpaceBIson. Want to explain how schizophrenics really just have a different view of the world, and depressives just need more vitamins and exercise?

What do schizos and depressed people have to do with being a spoiled brat?

I have no idea, but why did you feel the need to make this discussion about you?


"funniest"
 
2013-03-17 12:57:15 AM  

WhippingBoy: I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.


This is a great way of giving special needs kids proper interaction/enjoyable activites(and also, enjoyable time for the family) while respecting the rights of others to enjoy their meals/activities.

Unfortunately, people with special needs kids are dealt a difficult hand, but planning ahead improves the situation for all.an d hopefully occasionally you guys can get a babysitter9much more difficult for special needs) and have a night to yourselves
 
2013-03-17 12:57:35 AM  

Cup_O_Jo: tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?

To physically handicapped. It takes us back to the dark ages when polio patients,mentally retarded,and the like were locked away in the mental hospital which is 3rd complete different thing.


still happens
 
2013-03-17 12:58:03 AM  

Vector R: BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.

I was a little on the fence until I saw that part. Can you imagine that crowd at the movies? C'mon now, they cant possibly wait until Saw 5000 has a "special kid showing," or HEAVEN FORBID they wait until it comes out on DVD?


Why is ANYONE taking their kids to some of the movies out lately ffs? The number of small children I saw recently when we went to "Django Unchained" was appalling. Very small children, like, under ten. Do your kids really have to see that many buckets of blood before they reach their teens?
 
2013-03-17 01:02:39 AM  

octopied: WhippingBoy: I don't get it.

We have two "special needs" children. The algorithm for dealing with them is fairly simple:

1. We only eat out at "family" or kid-friendly restaurants (if we want to go some place fancy, we get a babysitter)
2. If our kids start acting up (which they sometimes do), we attempt to calm them down and control the situation
3. If we can't get control in a very short time interval (less than 5 minutes), either myself or my wife will remove the child from the restaurant (outside or to the car)
4. If the child calms down, we return to the restaurant
5. If the child does not calm down, we spend some time in the car, and then eat our (doggie-bagged) meals when we get home

Our kids are "different"; we can't live our lives like a "typical" family. That's just the way it is. I don't see any problem with that.

Whoever said that "this 'everything for everyone' attitude is ruining humanity" hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.

This is a great way of giving special needs kids proper interaction/enjoyable activites(and also, enjoyable time for the family) while respecting the rights of others to enjoy their meals/activities.

Unfortunately, people with special needs kids are dealt a difficult hand, but planning ahead improves the situation for all.an d hopefully occasionally you guys can get a babysitter9much more difficult for special needs) and have a night to yourselves


Even if we don't get a babysitter, it's no big deal. Take out food and the 50" widescreen with surround sound is not exactly claim to being "hard done by".
 
2013-03-17 01:10:11 AM  

hundreddollarman: UnspokenVoice: Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?

You should carry a gun an AR-15.

FTFY


An AR-15 is a good idea BUT it means losing the surprise aspect. Perhaps a pair of Mk IIIs is a suitable compromise and one can always carry extra magazines.
 
2013-03-17 01:22:55 AM  

Ennuipoet: To be fair, it's getting might difficult to distinguish between the developmentally disabled and the genuine assholes.    Numerically speaking, there are many more genuine assholes, so perhaps we could the assholes wear a special hat or something.  Or a t-shirt reading "I possess all my mental faculties, I am just a dick."


they already wear a special hat. It's  the bavkwards ones.
 
2013-03-17 01:27:11 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Congrats. You just bit on a troll comment.

(rest deleted to save space)

My apologies for doing so.  Thanks for your full response.
 
2013-03-17 01:34:24 AM  

Hallows_Eve: True story- Our family with three kids was out a few years ago at restaurant, and across the aisle was another family, a mom with two kids. Those kids were all over the place, visiting other people's, crawling under them, screaming, squealing, shrieking, trying to trip the waitress, etc. Everyone knew those kids names because mom never bothered to get up and address the issues, she wanted to have grown up talk with her sister, so of course would stop every other sentence to repeat any or all of the kids names.

In the meantime, we picked our food. Dinner came and we ate our dinner. Made small talk, etc. Kids stayed in their seats, no screaming. You get the idea. This isn't to brag, I think it was just a lucky night for us. Anyhow we get the check and pay, and on the way out an old man, Marlon Brando Godfather looking literally grabs my arm from his table and pulls me toward him with an iron grip on my coat, surrounded by a few son looking types, temporarily worrying my husband. The old man whispered in my ear "Now you, YOU have nice behaved children". I thanked him and nodded to my husband all was okay.

What I didn't say was that two of my kids are high functioning autistics. Those other kids, though one could not be sure, were just under disciplined and their mom seemed to think she was entitled to her time. My kids have and occasionally still do act out with the right triggers, but as their mom, I don't expect the public to deal with it. One of us will take the kid outside, take a walk with them or a quick drive in the car. One can't predict all sudden panics, but we can at least know when situations are ripe to look for a better outlet. We do drive ins for movies and the occasional Mom's Movietime bit- where the lights are still on, volume is softer, babies are crying, and everyone is used to kids running about. We plan things out and talk about them with the kids, and our expectations of them so that there are no surprises as much as possible.

Not sure where I ...


This.

Autistic kids are not that hard to train. Neither are Down's kids, and neither are neurotypical 'normal' ones. But you do have to train them, just like you'd train a dog, and for much the same reasons. If I let a dog run over God's creation, peeing on everything and barking, growling and snapping at people, sooner or later somebody would shoot the dog or lock it up on Death Row at the shelter. In many states, we do the same with humans who were not trained to live in society. The primary difference is that the dogs in the shelter rape each other less.

If you have a kid and you love them, train them how to behave in society. If you do not know how, buy a book on dog training and skip the leash and collar-related bits. Really. That works on kids. It doesn't have to be fancy, eighth-level Miss Manners stuff, just 'inside voices' and 'stay close to your parent' covers 80% of it.
 
2013-03-17 01:53:17 AM  

UnspokenVoice: hundreddollarman: UnspokenVoice: Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?

You should carry a gun an AR-15.

FTFY

An AR-15 is a good idea BUT it means losing the surprise aspect. Perhaps a pair of Mk IIIs is a suitable compromise and one can always carry extra magazines.


Good point. A handgun is more concealable, but if I'm going to carry a pistol, it wouldn't be a .22. I'd go with a 9mm, something like a Glock 26.
 
2013-03-17 02:10:16 AM  

SpiderQueenDemon: But you do have to train them, just like you'd train a dog, and for much the same reasons.


People will deny that and actively disbelieve it for the same excuses they deny evolution.  "We did not come from monkey's, god made us and we're special! Those tactics are for raising animals[said with as much disdain as possible]"

Fact is, we are animals.  We can, and have, learned a LOT from studying how other creatures develop, namely those animals that are born and mature and die at a much more rapid pace than we do, yet posses similar social groupings(ie mammals, specifically dogs and primates but many others).

Oddly enough, some of these things we've learned are because we can be a certain amount of "inhumane" to these other animals. Take pavlov's dogs for a prime example.  He an another were stopped from experimenting on human babies, but not before a direct similarity was noted in association.(Ie drooling at a dinner bell)

Funny, in a way.  We can't hardly study humans, because they age at the same rate we do, and it's inhumane.  We find an alternative, and people like PETA try to stop even that.  We have zealots that think we're above animals, and zealots who think other animals are just as deserving.  What are we to do, sit here with our thumb up our butts?
 
2013-03-17 02:43:50 AM  

Radioactive Ass: jaylectricity: even though we had specifically decided to eat out at 6 on a Thursday night

Thursday is only a hair better than Friday, and 6pm is the exact time when everybody is there to eat.

Tuesday at 5 would be much better.

Yep. 6-8 pm is prime time seating in many restaurants. Go there early or go there late on Wed - Sun if you have a kid that you know can't control themselves. I shouldn't have to put up with your kids issues. You're the one who decided to have a kid and you lost the crap shoot on making a good one, them's the risks that you undertook and you have to pay the price when you lose. Not me.


My autistic son and I would go out to eat whenever we felt like it, secure in the knowledge that one or more of your children would be screaming/crying/throwing food and no one would notice my little wierdo.
 
2013-03-17 02:53:34 AM  

omeganuepsilon: SpiderQueenDemon: But you do have to train them, just like you'd train a dog, and for much the same reasons.

People will deny that and actively disbelieve it for the same excuses they deny evolution. "We did not come from monkey's, god made us and we're special! Those tactics are for raising animals[said with as much disdain as possible]"


Oddly enough, my experience has been that the fundamentalist type tends to discipline children effectively, while the more smug type of liberal tends to have entitled snowflakes.
 
2013-03-17 03:37:45 AM  
I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.
 
2013-03-17 03:50:54 AM  

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


Sure, so why not punish the rest of society for your defective genes.
 
2013-03-17 04:01:48 AM  

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


Is it too late to SIDS the little bastard?  Get a babysitter if you want to go eat, or eat out at dennys, you self righteous pool of defective chromosomes.
 
2013-03-17 04:04:29 AM  

ruetheday69: Cup_O_Jo: tallguywithglasseson: Cup_O_Jo: Lumping mental retardation in with physical handicapped people is demeaning.

To who?

To physically handicapped. It takes us back to the dark ages when polio patients,mentally retarded,and the like were locked away in the mental hospital which is 3rd complete different thing.

Yup. Exactly this. I am hearing impaired and have been since my teens. I get a lot of bullshiat from people and lots of weird looks and since i am not 'typical' deaf as in nonverbal and sign language people are very confused and generally treat me like I have a mental disability.


Me too actually, since elementary school people have assumed that hearing aids meant I was retarded (their words). it always sucked.
 
2013-03-17 04:21:38 AM  

hardinparamedic: On one hand, we have thousands of Physicians encompassing everything from Neonatology, Endocrinology, Neurology, Child Psychiatry; scientists of numerous disciplines with hard evidence, and decades of epidemiological and public health research which set down quite clearly why we're having more cases of autism now than before


Oh yeah? Why, precisely?
 
2013-03-17 04:23:53 AM  

hardinparamedic: You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.


That may answer "what". It most certainly does not answer "why".
 
2013-03-17 04:42:55 AM  

Dr. Whoof: Because based on the article, she sounds like she may have undiagnosed mild autism herself.


"Mild autism" is like "slight pregnancy".
 
2013-03-17 04:44:33 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: You don't get a free pass to disturb others in public places just because you have a disability.


Actually, you do.
 
2013-03-17 04:46:12 AM  

orbister: "Mild autism" is like "slight pregnancy".


No, "mild autism" is like "mild hearing impairment", or "mild cerebral palsy".  It comes in degrees, completely debilitating at the extremely severe end but neutral or even beneficial at the mild end.
 
2013-03-17 04:46:43 AM  
Nothing changes one's perspective than becoming a parent, or step-parent in my case of a kid with ADHD and him having an autistic mom.  No idea if he has Aspergers or not, he's 13 and currently doesn't want to go to therapy although he could use it, since he's not really off the chain we're not forcing him.  Yes, he can get up to being an asshole at times, but he's punished appropriately and is generally well behaved when we're out in public.  If I ever thought he was out of hand, though, I wouldn't hesitate to haul his arse out to the parking lot for a "chat" although he's as tall as I am.  He knows better and while he respects and fears his dad, he knows that the wicked stepmother will handily put him in his place.  And yet, he still loves me, bless his sweet lil heart.  I can't imagine a full on autistic child, that is a challenge I haven't ever had to face (only autistic adults, which are another ballgame) but even with his mental problems, I won't let him screw up a good evening of family fun for either the family or for total strangers.  Not on my watch.
 
2013-03-17 04:47:25 AM  

SpiderQueenDemon: Autistic kids are not that hard to train. Neither are Down's kids, and neither are neurotypical 'normal' ones.


Call us back if you ever have a child. Or meet one.
 
2013-03-17 04:51:44 AM  

chrylis: No, "mild autism" is like "mild hearing impairment", or "mild cerebral palsy".  It comes in degrees, completely debilitating at the extremely severe end but neutral or even beneficial at the mild end.


Used to, maybe. Nowadays we say "autistic spectrum disorder" with autism at one end.

Incidentally, I have infinite sympathy for parents of autistic children and infinite patience for their kids. In particular I have sympathy for them over the large number of people who excuse bad behaviour in their children with "oh, he's got undiagnosed ASD", thus trivialising the whole thing.
 
2013-03-17 04:52:50 AM  
Nothing like an autism thread to bring out the trolls...

Soupysales: Sure, so why not punish the rest of society for your defective genes.


Yogimus: Is it too late to SIDS the little bastard? Get a babysitter if you want to go eat, or eat out at dennys, you self righteous pool of defective chromosomes.


and the orcs.  I'm having trouble figuring this out; do people like this think they're being funny, or are they really the sort of people who need to be a bit more fatal-accident-prone?
 
2013-03-17 04:56:27 AM  

orbister: Used to, maybe. Nowadays we say "autistic spectrum disorder" with autism at one end.


Until DSM-V, anyway. ;-)  Even if you're making the technical distinction, however, it's worth noting that a firm diagnosis of "autism" encompasses both completely noncommunicative individuals and Temple Grandin.

orbister: In particular I have sympathy for them over the large number of people who excuse bad behaviour in their children with "oh, he's got undiagnosed ASD", thus trivialising the whole thing.


This.  Getting a diagnosis isn't hard, and a good parent would want to get her child whatever sort of training will be useful.
 
2013-03-17 05:18:05 AM  

hundreddollarman: UnspokenVoice: hundreddollarman: UnspokenVoice: Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?

You should carry a gun an AR-15.

FTFY

An AR-15 is a good idea BUT it means losing the surprise aspect. Perhaps a pair of Mk IIIs is a suitable compromise and one can always carry extra magazines.

Good point. A handgun is more concealable, but if I'm going to carry a pistol, it wouldn't be a .22. I'd go with a 9mm, something like a Glock 26.


Ah, see I opted for .22 for a reason. Think about how many rounds they can carry AND shoot into a person while they're still standing. They can gleefully dump an entire magazine into a person and still have a dozen magazines in their front pocket or scattered about their body. A 9mm is going to do the job in just a single round or two. S'not nearly as much fun I don't imagine.
 
2013-03-17 05:19:05 AM  

Rodeodoc: MeanJean: kxs401

This "everything is for everyone" attitude is ruining humanity.

Yes, lets lock the disabled up in institutions where they get treated like shiat or hide them in the attic instead of accommodating them to spare YOUR delicate feefees.

Sorry that my disabled friend is delaying your journey because it takes a little time for her wheelchair to be strapped into the college transport van. I'll have her personally apologize to you for not being able to farking walk.

The nerve of the disabled, wanting to participate in society. How dare they want to contribute and live their lives?

The faux outrage over your friend/son/mother's condition is petulant at best.  You are asking me to adjust my behavior and expectations because of your situation.  For the most part I am prepared to do that.  But what irks me is when there is no give or take on your side.  You (this is the generic "you") act like the entire world should kiss your ass because of your companion's disability.  The writer of the article lambasted the old man who told her he heard her the first time.  Was he to sit there and listen to her preach and whine and prattle, or could he not just tell her to STFU because he got the message she sent?  She wanted the stage in the restaurant, and he denied her.  That's what really ticked her off.  If you need to pack a wheelchair on the bus, just do it as efficiently and quietly as possible.  We all see you.  If your kid is autistic, we may not be able to differentiate between autism and the rest of the undisciplined, obnoxious crotchfruit that populate the planet.  Make a small effort to tone the kid down, rather the acting like he can do what he wants because of his "disability".

My nephew is is wheelchair bound paraplegic.  I enjoy taking him to hockey games.  We arrive early and leave a bit later to avoid the crowds.  I understand that it inconveniences some, but most also understand he needs a bit of space to maneuver.

Everyone needs to lighten up and ...


All of this. The world doesn't need to kiss your ass or work around your issues.
 
2013-03-17 05:24:16 AM  

orbister: hardinparamedic: You do realize that the "frigid, neglectful parent" theory has been disproven since the 1970s, right? The "real damage" is the fact that their brains developed too much neuronal density in the frontal lobe.

That may answer "what". It most certainly does not answer "why".


I am appalled at all the people that simply accept these diagnosis without questioning the origen and seeking a cure. It's ridiculous. Some of these people actually seem proud that they deal with this.
 
2013-03-17 05:37:11 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Vector R: BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.

I was a little on the fence until I saw that part. Can you imagine that crowd at the movies? C'mon now, they cant possibly wait until Saw 5000 has a "special kid showing," or HEAVEN FORBID they wait until it comes out on DVD?

Why is ANYONE taking their kids to some of the movies out lately ffs? The number of small children I saw recently when we went to "Django Unchained" was appalling. Very small children, like, under ten. Do your kids really have to see that many buckets of blood before they reach their teens?


You live in the US right? I would expect that there. But God forbid you show those kids a tit.
 
2013-03-17 06:04:53 AM  
"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.
Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "
"Oh, sorry," he said.
"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "
"I heard you the first time," he snapped, "you`ve pulled the disability card so I just have to listen to flippy there ruin my evening and shut up or have you write an article about me on the internet and how terrible I am"
 
2013-03-17 06:14:05 AM  
There's no question that separation makes things easier for everyone. After another older patron at the same establishment complained on a different night about Jonah watching his touch-screen device while waiting for his dinner, we permanently moved our group into a party room apart from the main dining room. I'm finally able to relax-we don't have to make Jonah stay in his seat or constantly remind the seven other kids to use their "indoor voices." Philosophically, however, it bothers me: What are my children, and my friend's children, learning about the place of the disabled in the community? Will they grow up thinking it's perfectly natural for people like Jonah to literally be shunted into a back room?

Yes. That is where children of all ages should be if they won`t be quiet. I don`t want kids running around shouting and playing videos loudly when I pay for a relaxing meal, it doesn`t matter if they are autistic or not. This is the equality she desires, to be excluded from polite society like all the other kids who won`t shut up including my sisters and my sister in laws who are all feral and should not be taken anywhere.

If I wouldn`t want a child acting like that around me whether they are autistic or not then it is not prejudice against the disabled, in fact, it`s exactly the opposite. They are being treated EXACTLY the same as non-disabled kids and their parents don`t like it!
 
2013-03-17 06:27:47 AM  

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


Is there some reason why you're doing this alone without help, or are you too special to ask for assistance with your child's behavior issues?
 
2013-03-17 06:51:11 AM  

dready zim: There's no question that separation makes things easier for everyone. After another older patron at the same establishment complained on a different night about Jonah watching his touch-screen device while waiting for his dinner, we permanently moved our group into a party room apart from the main dining room. I'm finally able to relax-we don't have to make Jonah stay in his seat or constantly remind the seven other kids to use their "indoor voices." Philosophically, however, it bothers me: What are my children, and my friend's children, learning about the place of the disabled in the community? Will they grow up thinking it's perfectly natural for people like Jonah to literally be shunted into a back room?

Yes. That is where children of all ages should be if they won`t be quiet. I don`t want kids running around shouting and playing videos loudly when I pay for a relaxing meal, it doesn`t matter if they are autistic or not. This is the equality she desires, to be excluded from polite society like all the other kids who won`t shut up including my sisters and my sister in laws who are all feral and should not be taken anywhere.

If I wouldn`t want a child acting like that around me whether they are autistic or not then it is not prejudice against the disabled, in fact, it`s exactly the opposite. They are being treated EXACTLY the same as non-disabled kids and their parents don`t like it!



Disabled is not the same as a child that behaves poorly and is allowed to.
 
2013-03-17 06:52:52 AM  

vice_magnet: I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong.


Not bad, most people wouldn`t pick up on it but this is what gave you away as your post was from the angle of an entitled asshole who thinks they do nothing wrong. You are a hypocrite or a troll. Either way you got some bites.

5/10
 
2013-03-17 07:02:07 AM  

AbbeySomeone: Disabled is not the same as a child that behaves poorly and is allowed to.


No, but for a disabled person to be treated the same as a non-disabled person is simple equality. Access is a different matter, but that is not how you treat someone, a person should be able to move into and out of the same areas as everyone else and not be excluded because of a disability but the standards of behaviour are the same.

A child should not be allowed to behave poorly just because they are disabled.
 
2013-03-17 07:12:59 AM  

rugman11: PunGent: I was sympathetic until page 2, when she admitted taking an uncontrollably loud autistic into a movie theater.

That's different than a restaurant, you entitled cow.

Our local theatre has started introducing special showings for the "differently abled."  They keep the house lights up a little more and the sound down a little bit, while also allowing kids to move around and make noise.  They've apparently gotten good feedback.

http://www.kansas.com/2012/11/14/2556527/warren-to-screen-movie-for- ki ds.html


Good on them.
 
2013-03-17 07:17:48 AM  
My older brother is mentally disabled, can't talk, physically he's okay except for the side effects from the bucket of drugs he's taken every day since he was 3(he's 35 now). He screams and hits himself sometimes when he's uncomfortable or distressed and has OCD when it comes to small things and doors.

Every week I take him to his local pub and we have dinner. He's acted up ONCE in four years(started hitting himself and yelling) and when that happened I took him outside, put him in my car, went back to explain to the staff what happened, apologised and then left. The staff at the pub know us so it wasn't a problem. In four years he's been a problem one time. I put it down to three things:
One, we drug him to the gills so he's less aggressive, people who don't drug their children but say they're mentally disabled and problematic in public are farking idiots. Finding the right balance is difficult I admit and over time the dosages need to rise which is risky, but if they aren't likely to ever have a kid of their own then drug them up.
Two, because I'm family, unlike some of his other carers, I can get a lot more aggressive with him when he does act out, shouting and yelling etc(not in the pub itself on that one time but on the drive home). When he has struck me(I'd say hit but I'd be filtered) a few times I've screamed back at him loud enough for him to really consider never doing that again. He hit me while I was driving once so I pulled over and just screamed at him for three minutes. He's crazy good behaved when I and/or my dad are around(I'm pretty sure my dad belted him something fierce one night or at least screamed at him a hell of a lot when he was around 17 after he beat the crap out of our younger brother (then 12)) and has made being behaved part of his being in public routine as a result. This has made it easier for his other carers as well.
Three, I always seat him between the wall and myself, there is nowhere for him to go and nothing for him to latch onto, the staff there give us the same booth every week without fail. If he looks likely to act up I'm ready to go, I don't care about the meal, the people still there or anything, I'm out the door and he knows it.

The mentally disabled can be a handful, but if you are really really firm and stubborn with them you can usually make them change enough to behave in public. They might not understand why they need to behave but they'll behave.
I've met some other mentally disabled people and their ability to behave in public is usually related to the quality of their care, parents who tried to let them have whatever they wanted have terrible difficulty controlling their kids and as they get older it only gets worse.
Some people might read this and think I'm a bad brother, but I've been looking after him for five years, in that time I've had to yell at him maybe three-four times and been headbutted once, kicked four times and he tried to bite me several times. I love my brother, but I'm not treading on eggshells around him.
 
2013-03-17 07:22:32 AM  

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


I get it, really.  Having NORMAL kids is a ton of work...and I get tired just playing with my nieces and nephew, let alone caring for them 24/7.

But really?  I can't enjoy a movie because YOUR kid has problems?

Seems selfish of you.
 
2013-03-17 07:26:11 AM  

SpaceBison: Austism is just a made up disease used to cover for the parent's inability or unwillingness to disciple their little crotchfruits.


Over-diagnosed, sure.  But the real deal is farking scary...my late grandmother used to do social work, and she said those kids were the hardest for her...no treatment, back in the day, besides restraints and a padded room.
 
2013-03-17 07:30:30 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Vector R: BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.

I was a little on the fence until I saw that part. Can you imagine that crowd at the movies? C'mon now, they cant possibly wait until Saw 5000 has a "special kid showing," or HEAVEN FORBID they wait until it comes out on DVD?

Why is ANYONE taking their kids to some of the movies out lately ffs? The number of small children I saw recently when we went to "Django Unchained" was appalling. Very small children, like, under ten. Do your kids really have to see that many buckets of blood before they reach their teens?


I first noticed that back when Sin City came out...unattended YOUNG kids crawling around the seats.

At least they missed some of what was on the screen...Jebus.
 
2013-03-17 07:31:08 AM  

PunGent: vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.

I get it, really.  Having NORMAL kids is a ton of work...and I get tired just playing with my nieces and nephew, let alone caring for them 24/7.

But really?  I can't enjoy a movie because YOUR kid has problems?

Seems selfish of you.


Calling it selfish is polite and kind. If your child is disruptive in public and you know it you should keep them at home or fix the situation.
 
2013-03-17 07:32:03 AM  

UnspokenVoice: hundreddollarman: UnspokenVoice: hundreddollarman: UnspokenVoice: Chinchillazilla: He has been scowled at on airplanes, in movie theaters, in restaurants, and in bookstores. And I get it-I prefer a quiet airplane ride as much as the next person.

The thing is, you probably don't prefer quiet as much as I do. I have Asperger's, and part of that is that I have a really low tolerance for loud, high-pitched, and/or irregularly spaced noises. A loud crowd? I can deal. A single shrieking person? My ears will single that out for special attention. I am not capable of distracting myself from it. It can cause me to have a panic attack if I can't escape the source of the noise.

So what do I do in situations like this? Am I just screwed because my disability conflicts with the more severe disabilities of others?

You should carry a gun an AR-15.

FTFY

An AR-15 is a good idea BUT it means losing the surprise aspect. Perhaps a pair of Mk IIIs is a suitable compromise and one can always carry extra magazines.

Good point. A handgun is more concealable, but if I'm going to carry a pistol, it wouldn't be a .22. I'd go with a 9mm, something like a Glock 26.

Ah, see I opted for .22 for a reason. Think about how many rounds they can carry AND shoot into a person while they're still standing. They can gleefully dump an entire magazine into a person and still have a dozen magazines in their front pocket or scattered about their body. A 9mm is going to do the job in just a single round or two. S'not nearly as much fun I don't imagine.


Every time someone questions the stopping power of a .22, I ask if I can shoot them in the chest with one.

No takers yet, oddly.
 
2013-03-17 07:35:06 AM  
I'm a pretty tolerant guy and wouldn't have minded the kid too much myself having taken small kids out in public many a times, but the dumb wench of a mother doesn't even sound like she was trying to parent the kid at all til some guy did something.

When you take a kid out in public, you don't get to stop parenting, even if it's a kid with special needs. For a lot of people who go out in public to pay good money for that movie or restaurant dinner, it's a special occasion that they maybe don't even get more than once or twice a year. Who wants that spoiled by an entitled "parent" who pays their screaming kid about as much mind as people pay toilet seat color? Kid got special needs? Guess you'd better meet them. It's your duty parent, nobody else's.
 
2013-03-17 07:36:00 AM  

vice_magnet: I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him


I absolutely love the cognitive dissonance of someone who will knowingly and willingly ruin an entire theater full of people's evenings, then call them entitled for getting upset about it.
All because "you deal with it 24/7"?  If your kid is such a burden, put him in a home or something instead of just trying to include other people in that burden.
 
2013-03-17 08:04:40 AM  

AbbeySomeone: All of this. The world doesn't need to kiss your ass or work around your issues


Advice which, it seems, has not been fully accepted by the irritated people on planes, in restaurants and at cinemas. Don't like the sound of children? That's your problem, not theirs.
 
2013-03-17 08:05:58 AM  

AbbeySomeone: I am appalled at all the people that simply accept these diagnosis without questioning the origen and seeking a cure. It's ridiculous. Some of these people actually seem proud that they deal with this.


Unlike the rest of science, much of medicine - and particularly mental health medicine - is still stuck at the Victorian stage of "examine it, measure it, name it, we're done".
 
2013-03-17 08:10:28 AM  

dready zim: I don`t want kids running around shouting and playing videos loudly when I pay for a relaxing meal


Well, they don't want to behave as if they're in church when they go out for a lively sociable meal just because you want the silence of the crypt while eating. So explain, will you, why your demands trump theirs? Your answer should include the phrase "my monstrous sense of entitlement".
 
2013-03-17 08:18:40 AM  

dready zim: No, but for a disabled person to be treated the same as a non-disabled person is simple equality.


"Simple" being the operative word. We don't treat disabled and non-disabled people the same, because, although it may meet a particular simple-minded definition of equality, it doesn't meet any reasonable definition of equity. Why should blind people be allowed o take guide dogs into restaurants when seeing people can't? Because it's fair. Why should deaf people get hearing aids when hearing people don't? Because it's fair. Why should wheelchair users be allowed to park where not wheelchair users may not? Because it's fair.
 
2013-03-17 08:23:13 AM  

PunGent: But really?  I can't enjoy a movie because YOUR kid has problems?

Seems selfish of you.


No more selfish than the idea that she shouldn't enjoy a movie because your kids has problems.

A couple of times I have been on a train when a clearly disabled child has been making a lot of noise, surrounding passengers have been glaring and the parents have been looking increasing harassed. In those cases I make a point of walking over and saying, with a smile, "Please don't worry on my behalf about the noise your son is making. It doesn't bother me in the slightest."
 
2013-03-17 08:26:08 AM  

Terrible Old Man: For a lot of people who go out in public to pay good money for that movie or restaurant dinner, it's a special occasion that they maybe don't even get more than once or twice a year.


Indeed. So why should they have it spoiled by some grumpy old fool who doesn't like children. If you want a quiet dinner, get a takeaway and have it home.

This does not, by the way, excuse any avoidable poor behaviour on the part of children.
 
2013-03-17 08:27:37 AM  

orbister: dready zim: I don`t want kids running around shouting and playing videos loudly when I pay for a relaxing meal

Well, they don't want to behave as if they're in church when they go out for a lively sociable meal just because you want the silence of the crypt while eating. So explain, will you, why your demands trump theirs? Your answer should include the phrase "my monstrous sense of entitlement".


It all comes down to established codes of conduct at the place you go to.  If it was chuck-e-cheeze's, the guy's an asshat for criticizing childish behavior.  If it was a nice quiet restaurant, TFA is the asshat for bringing in a 14 year old human noisemaker.  There's a lot of gray area between, and TFA only describes it as a "casual restaurant", which is somewhat nebulous.  There's plenty of places that I would describe as "casual", but still expect some goddamned peace and quiet during my dinner.

The fact that TFA sided with the Whole Foods leash lady is what dashes her credibility in my mind though.  Your kid gets caught stealing (and it's your fault for not keeping an eye on him), and you'd rather make yourself the victim?  Yeah, that's silly.  TFA has established herself as someone who agrees with that mentality, so I can't rule out the possibility of her adhering to it here.
 
2013-03-17 08:48:11 AM  

serial_crusher: orbister: dready zim: I don`t want kids running around shouting and playing videos loudly when I pay for a relaxing meal

Well, they don't want to behave as if they're in church when they go out for a lively sociable meal just because you want the silence of the crypt while eating. So explain, will you, why your demands trump theirs? Your answer should include the phrase "my monstrous sense of entitlement".

It all comes down to established codes of conduct at the place you go to.  If it was chuck-e-cheeze's, the guy's an asshat for criticizing childish behavior.  If it was a nice quiet restaurant, TFA is the asshat for bringing in a 14 year old human noisemaker.  There's a lot of gray area between, and TFA only describes it as a "casual restaurant", which is somewhat nebulous.  There's plenty of places that I would describe as "casual", but still expect some goddamned peace and quiet during my dinner.


A "nice" restaurant that serves a kid's hamburger and fries?  Methinks we aren't talking about L'Espalier here.

People need to get over it already.  Autistic kids are generally no worse than other "normal" kids.  As a parent, use good discretion and don't be a jerk to people who object to your presence.  Not every situation needs to be a teachable moment.  And don't expect to take your snowflake to a fancy location or one requiring quiet unless you have made prior arrangements.  Many movie theatres have special showings for kids with special needs.

On the other side, going out to a public place doesn't entitle you to the perfect moment.  You can, and will, be disturbed by all kinds of people and if you can't reconcile yourself to that fact, then stay home and order takeout.
 
2013-03-17 09:16:47 AM  

vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.


While I'm sure he isn't trying to be a distraction, I'm pretty sure he's quite good at it nonetheless.  I sympathize with you having to care for him 24/7 and hope that someday you will be lucky enough to carve out enough time for yourself to go out and at least enjoy a quiet relaxing meal, perhaps with a friend.  And let's just hope some self-righteous prick with defective crotchfruit doesn't ruin that meal for you and everyone else in the restaurant.
 
2013-03-17 09:37:40 AM  
The article's author is a bad parent for not taking her child to Jenny McCarthy to be cured of Autism.
 
2013-03-17 09:40:15 AM  

chrylis: No, "mild autism" is like "mild hearing impairment", or "mild cerebral palsy".  It comes in degrees, completely debilitating at the extremely severe end but neutral or even beneficial at the mild end.


what do all degrees of autism along the spectrum have in common?

another way to put the point: why think that "mild" autism and "severe" autism are two forms of the same condition, as opposed to two very different conditions?
 
2013-03-17 10:02:34 AM  
SpiderQueenDemon:

I think one problem with parents is that people take "It not my fault" as synonymous with "It's not my responsibility". I will admit to being a health nut when I was carrying each of my kids. I don't drink alcohol at all, never did drugs, stayed away from all OTC stuff outside of tums, even cut the caffeine and most sugar out. However, the first two kids fell in the spectrum. By the time we sorted out the first child with this, the others were already born/in process. I don't blame shots, I had a gut feeling that something was off, being around babies and toddlers all my life, but doctors kept saying the kid will grow out of some of the quirks. They didn't, and we picked up on the second quicker because of it. The youngest is more of a melodramatic, and so training shifts into not expecting crap from people just because one can make good Puss in Boot eyes at them. I know darn well I can't be around all the time or forever, to warn outsiders or to ask them to give consideration to my preciousez.

 In any case, I brought them into the world, they are my responsibility to prepare them for it in realistic terms

I am not doing the martyr bit. Just to highlight that our response was to adjust our parenting to different training, rather than expecting society to treat us special or 'help' us raise our children...any of them. The way I figure, my kids are going to be out with the grow ups someday, and and all the childhood pity they got in the world won't help them if they don't know how to handle the fire alarm at their first job.
 
2013-03-17 10:39:54 AM  

miniflea: He wasn't exceedingly loud, but the oddness of his behavior had clearly caught the attention of an older gentleman at the one other table occupied at that early hour.

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.


Is it just me, or is that actually a pretty reasonable response from the old guy?



It certainly wasn't gratuitous nastiness.  If this is really the best example she could come up with of being treated "unfairly," then she's clearly not facing the oppression she thinks she is.
 
2013-03-17 11:12:33 AM  
"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>
 
2013-03-17 11:28:38 AM  

WTFdoesitmatter: chrylis: Oh, save this canard for the ADHD threads. There's legitimate debate about what "counts" as autistic, but there are no (non-quack) drug or surgical treatments, so this one at least isn't a conspiracy by Big Pharma.

The massive increases in autism and ADHD diagnoses in recent years are two sides of the same coin. Even if there is no official autism drug, doctors are still making a ton of money diagnosing and "treating" any kid they can get their hand on. All that is happening is that the imaginations and creativity of a large number of children are being suppressed by being drugged. Furthermore, these major behavioral issues were not nearly as prevalent until the age where children were constantly being bombarded by media and advertising.


Do you have any sort of evidence to support this conspiracy theory of yours?
 
2013-03-17 12:09:54 PM  

december: chrylis: No, "mild autism" is like "mild hearing impairment", or "mild cerebral palsy".  It comes in degrees, completely debilitating at the extremely severe end but neutral or even beneficial at the mild end.

what do all degrees of autism along the spectrum have in common?

another way to put the point: why think that "mild" autism and "severe" autism are two forms of the same condition, as opposed to two very different conditions?


Autistic characteristics reliably come in a cluster called the "autistic triad", which consists of difficulties in person-to-person communication (e.g., reading body language), social understanding (figuring out what behaviors are appropriate when), and various executive tasks.  Virtually all people with these characteristics also has particular sensory sensitivity corresponding in degree to the others, and stress can "turn them up" so that in tough situations, someone who's on the mild-to-unnoticeable end of the spectrum can look very similar to how someone with a more severe version does normally.  Additionally, these characteristics usually come with a fairly standardized package of specific quirks (such as literal interpretation of speech and a very marked preference for small-scale routines) that are noticeable in individuals across the spectrum.
 
2013-03-17 12:24:08 PM  

chrylis: omeganuepsilon: SpiderQueenDemon: But you do have to train them, just like you'd train a dog, and for much the same reasons.

People will deny that and actively disbelieve it for the same excuses they deny evolution. "We did not come from monkey's, god made us and we're special! Those tactics are for raising animals[said with as much disdain as possible]"

Oddly enough, my experience has been that the fundamentalist type tends to discipline children effectively, while the more smug type of liberal tends to have entitled snowflakes.


I'd say the rate is probably the samethe same.  Plenty of fundy kids are spoiled rotten.  Haven't you heard of Westboro Baptists?

But that's not what I was referring to, only that fundy types will deny the similarity to animals.  Of course a higher power telling them to will still cause discipline, but as is often the case, it's not really carried out well and intelligently.

And in liberal types, there is still plenty of discipline it's just as ineffective.  What's interesting is that it can be cyclical causing one kid to grow up to be liberal from being over disciplined, and his kid grows up and thinks he HAS to be listened to, etc.  The "I'm not going to do that to my kid, I know what it's like" phenomenon.

In short, bad parenting begets bad parenting, whatever the case or type of parenting(too much or too little).
 
2013-03-17 12:37:21 PM  

chrylis: december: chrylis: No, "mild autism" is like "mild hearing impairment", or "mild cerebral palsy".  It comes in degrees, completely debilitating at the extremely severe end but neutral or even beneficial at the mild end.

what do all degrees of autism along the spectrum have in common?

another way to put the point: why think that "mild" autism and "severe" autism are two forms of the same condition, as opposed to two very different conditions?

Autistic characteristics reliably come in a cluster called the "autistic triad", which consists of difficulties in person-to-person communication (e.g., reading body language), social understanding (figuring out what behaviors are appropriate when), and various executive tasks.  Virtually all people with these characteristics also has particular sensory sensitivity corresponding in degree to the others, and stress can "turn them up" so that in tough situations, someone who's on the mild-to-unnoticeable end of the spectrum can look very similar to how someone with a more severe version does normally.  Additionally, these characteristics usually come with a fairly standardized package of specific quirks (such as literal interpretation of speech and a very marked preference for small-scale routines) that are noticeable in individuals across the spectrum.


thanks for the helpful reply.

I agree with the sentiment that the people who have mild versions ruin it for the people with severe conditions. I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that? That's why i think it would benefit the ASD community if the severe versions had a different name and their own spectrum, and were not lumped in with the others.

So much of mental illness depends on its social dimension -- how it is perceived, how people react to those who have it, how the medical community treats it -- and autism is such a huge tent right now that it's hard to make statements that are true for all, so most statements come across as BS.
 
2013-03-17 12:56:35 PM  

kimmygibblershomework: Folks can marry their houseplant but bog forbid if I want to find my wife's ring in the grass with a metal detector.  A pet peeve of mine is all of the local idiots that bought some regentrified WW2 shoebox and park their car on the street.  Ya have that whole driveway and can't save all of the other users of the road the hassle of avoiding your car because you can't take an extra 15 seconds to back out of your driveway.  As my dad used to say, "the fleas come with the dog". I also appreciate the general 'tude of if I want to enjoy the one day I have off with the woman I love and buy her food and I am irked by someone's behavior, that I am some sort of caveperson.  Just get em a tshirt.  If their own behavior doesn't bother them at all, then why would a tshirt that explains their condition to the public?  We all want to know how special lil Suzy pink panties is also, so as not to offend thee.  Any dog under 25 pounds is not a service dog.  Just get a furby and feed them with your smartphone.  Also get the ADA tattooed on your forehead so we don't have to listen to the "You are NOT ALLOWED to ask me that question!" horseshiat in every airport, eatery, busline, sitcom, fruitbats, orangutans, and sitch.


Are you.... are you having a stroke?  Do you need me to call emergency services?
 
2013-03-17 01:04:27 PM  

cptjeff: Mikey1969: cptjeff: Mikey1969: cptjeff: Mikey1969: I've seen plenty of autistic and Down's Syndrome people out and about, and if you're so farking precious that you can't handle sitting in the same restaurant as them, you really aren't ready for big-people restaurants.

Seriously, if the kid isn't banging you on the head with tableware, you really SHOULD be able to cope. It's not that hard.

Whole Foods had a point about food contamination, but the security guard was completely out of line and deserved to lose his job. Way too many assholes out there who think tat everyone needs to conform to THEIR particular set of standards, and think that they get to dictate who comes into a restaurant or store merely because THEY are in attendance.

In other words, I hate people.

Which is good, because thinking people hate you.

Jesus. That's the best you can come up with? You need to go back to rebuttal 101, you suck at this.

The problem is that I'm tired and haven't eaten yet, and there was too much stupid packed into your post for me to bother with any sort of real response.

Well, that's marginally better, but it has the ring of group participation to it, as if you got a whole room of morons to help you craft it.

Look, as much as you may want to get into a flame war, I make it a policy to not fight against unarmed opponents. Grow a brain first, then get back to me.


Sigh... the phrase is 'I refuse to get into a battle of wits against an unarmed opponent', it changes the entire meaning of the phrase, if you can't use it correctly, you should try not embarrassing yourself.
 
2013-03-17 01:31:12 PM  

Gyrfalcon: vice_magnet: I will bite the trollbait this one time. I have a developmentally disabled child who is diagnosed with Asperger's. To childless, insensitive assholes FARK YOU. I deal with his behavior 24/7. Suck me dry. I don't get a vacation from this. I am going to eat out. I will kick your dinner into your face if you question my parenting abilities. I have absolutely had it with entitled assholes who think they do nothing wrong. I am going to movies with him. I love him. He isn't trying to be a distraction. He doesn't know all society's norms. I teach him as best I can. If you can't handle it, it's your problem.

Is there some reason why you're doing this alone without help, or are you too special to ask for assistance with your child's behavior issues?


I read the original post by vice_magnet and exactly three words come to mind: Respite.  Care.  NAO.  (Yes, I know respite care services are not available everywhere.  If they are available where she is, though, she should take advantage of it now and again just for purposes of preservation of sanity.)
 
2013-03-17 01:36:09 PM  

PunGent: Every time someone questions the stopping power of a .22, I ask if I can shoot them in the chest with one.

No takers yet, oddly.


I'm not doubting the lethality of a .22; a well-placed shot to the head is a killer, no matter the caliber.

But when you hear news stories about cops shooting an entire magazine of either 9mm or .40 S&W into some methed-out perp, hitting them only three or four times and that can't bring them down, then I don't think .22, even with a 100 percent hit rate is going to fare any better.

On the other hand, I don't get all the .45 ACP worship either. It's a big bullet, but the idea of a one-shot "man-stopper" seems like a silly myth.
 
2013-03-17 02:20:48 PM  

orbister: Call us back if you ever have a child. Or meet one.


I've got custody of two at the moment, actually, one with autism and one who is apparently normal, apart from a My Little Pony addiction.
 
2013-03-17 02:51:53 PM  

SpiderQueenDemon: orbister: Call us back if you ever have a child. Or meet one.

I've got custody of two at the moment, actually, one with autism and one who is apparently normal, apart from a My Little Pony addiction.


That is completely normal for a small female child. It's when they don't let go of it after they're eight or nine that it becomes abnormal.
 
2013-03-17 03:03:38 PM  

december: I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that?


Just enough to make the mother feel a bit special. See also: mild dyslexia, mild dyspraxia, mild ADHD and all the other imagined ills of the middle classes.
 
2013-03-17 03:05:23 PM  

SpiderQueenDemon: I've got custody of two at the moment, actually, one with autism and one who is apparently normal, apart from a My Little Pony addiction.


Do you let them in the house in cold weather or is the kennel fine all year round?
 
2013-03-17 03:41:59 PM  

orbister: december: I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that?

Just enough to make the mother feel a bit special. See also: mild dyslexia, mild dyspraxia, mild ADHD and all the other imagined ills of the middle classes.


As a special education teacher..I can tell you that there are indeed various severities of Apergers.
 
2013-03-17 04:08:03 PM  

orbister: december: I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that?

Just enough to make the mother feel a bit special. See also: mild dyslexia, mild dyspraxia, mild ADHD and all the other imagined ills of the middle classes.


This issue of degree? I don't get the controversy. You can a have little head cold, or a bastard of a head cold. You can have a sore throat/cough or you can hack up 10 cc's of green shiat every time you cough. You can have a slight ankle sprain, or one that swells your ankle up to a millemeter of being broken. Trust me, I'm not defending this woman who wrote TFA.
 
2013-03-17 04:24:16 PM  

John Buck 41: orbister: december: I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that?

Just enough to make the mother feel a bit special. See also: mild dyslexia, mild dyspraxia, mild ADHD and all the other imagined ills of the middle classes.

This issue of degree? I don't get the controversy. You can a have little head cold, or a bastard of a head cold. You can have a sore throat/cough or you can hack up 10 cc's of green shiat every time you cough. You can have a slight ankle sprain, or one that swells your ankle up to a millemeter of being broken. Trust me, I'm not defending this woman who wrote TFA.


The "cause" is very important, just not necessarily to the current patient so much.

The more we know about autism, or any other illness, be it mild or severe, the better.  Hence the need for classification.
This is how we find ways of dealing with different illnesses, or even preventing them altogether if at all possible.

For treatment alone, say a kid is mildly autistic.  Do you deal with him the same as someone who has behavioral issues because he was abused, or suffered trauma(mental or physical)?  No, you tailor treatment to the actual cause of the illness.

Just as you say, a cold is a cold.  Some people don't suffer much from the flu, but to others it can be very deadly if not treated.   This is why the specificity is needed.

That's what orbister(I think) doesn't quite get.
 
2013-03-17 05:08:56 PM  

december: I agree with the sentiment that the people who have mild versions ruin it for the people with severe conditions. I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that? That's why i think it would benefit the ASD community if the severe versions had a different name and their own spectrum, and were not lumped in with the others.


What in the world do you mean by "ruin it"?  And mild Asperger's is not only real but can be just as or even more frustrating than a case that's clear enough to be identified and worked with.  Imagine someone who was just barely red-green colorblind enough not to be able to distinguish traffic lights but not enough so that others around him had noticed the problem before he started driving.  Now everybody who rides with him or sees him on the road thinks he's a reckless maniac.

Finally, I don't think you understand what the term "spectrum" means.  The characteristics of everything from an Asperger's mild enough not to be obvious to debilitating autism occur in a reliable group and shade in severity smoothly into the quirky end of "normal".
 
2013-03-17 05:13:12 PM  

orbister: december: I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that?

Just enough to make the mother feel a bit special.


You were being somewhat sensible earlier, but go jump in a lake.  Part of what characterizes Asperger's is normal to high intelligence, and it's possible for individuals who genuinely, verifiably have difficulties to go through life compensating enough to get by but making obvious-enough-to-others errors that they inadvertently come across as jerks.  A little bit of skills coaching can go a long way in these circumstances, and they're not simply being obstinate.
 
2013-03-17 05:43:37 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: "HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"Shhhhhhh," he hissed from across the room.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

Everyone at the table instantly froze-except, of course, for Jonah. "I'm sorry," I explained, rising from my seat and taking a few steps toward him so I wouldn't have to holler. "My son is autistic ... "

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"Oh, sorry," he said.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"He's not trying to disturb you intentionally ... "

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

"I heard you the first time," he snapped.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>

My face burned as I returned to my seat, his gratuitous nastiness instantly draining the joy from my evening.

"HAMBURGER!  FRENCH FRIES!" <knife and fork banging on the table>


So you KNEW this was going to happen?   No one is upset at the kids here. It's the parents. The kid is a little ball of excitable retard, and that's fine. The parents on the other hand are selfish pricks, dragging little johny screamanshiat to restaurants. HIRE A BABYSITTER.  Come to grips with the fact that life dealt you a bad hand, and dinners out will be coming with a 20 dollar premium.
 
2013-03-17 06:28:18 PM  

chrylis: Finally, I don't think you understand what the term "spectrum" means.  The characteristics of everything from an Asperger's mild enough not to be obvious to debilitating autism occur in a reliable group and shade in severity smoothly into the quirky end of "normal".


your understanding of spectrum is very unhelpful because it merges two dimensions: 1) the spectrum of severity of the relevant characteristics, and 2) the spectrum of types of  autism.

When you switch between the two dimensions it's very hard to understand what you mean.
 
2013-03-17 06:33:10 PM  

omeganuepsilon: John Buck 41: orbister: december: I actually heard someone say that her child has a "mild form of Aspergers." What the hell is that?

Just enough to make the mother feel a bit special. See also: mild dyslexia, mild dyspraxia, mild ADHD and all the other imagined ills of the middle classes.

This issue of degree? I don't get the controversy. You can a have little head cold, or a bastard of a head cold. You can have a sore throat/cough or you can hack up 10 cc's of green shiat every time you cough. You can have a slight ankle sprain, or one that swells your ankle up to a millemeter of being broken. Trust me, I'm not defending this woman who wrote TFA.

The "cause" is very important, just not necessarily to the current patient so much.

The more we know about autism, or any other illness, be it mild or severe, the better.  Hence the need for classification.
This is how we find ways of dealing with different illnesses, or even preventing them altogether if at all possible.

For treatment alone, say a kid is mildly autistic.  Do you deal with him the same as someone who has behavioral issues because he was abused, or suffered trauma(mental or physical)?  No, you tailor treatment to the actual cause of the illness.

Just as you say, a cold is a cold.  Some people don't suffer much from the flu, but to others it can be very deadly if not treated.   This is why the specificity is needed.

That's what orbister(I think) doesn't quite get.


I agree with everything you said, as you did with me, but the writer of TFA is not someone I would want to encounter in R/L.
 
2013-03-17 06:56:50 PM  

december: your understanding of spectrum is very unhelpful because it merges two dimensions: 1) the spectrum of severity of the relevant characteristics, and 2) the spectrum of types of autism.

When you switch between the two dimensions it's very hard to understand what you mean.


There aren't two dimensions, just the one of how pronounced the characteristics are.  There aren't multiple "types" of autism; the formerly grouped diagnoses have either been merged (Asperger's, PDD-NOS) or recognized as a different sort of thing (Rett's), following more recent understanding.
 
2013-03-17 08:11:55 PM  

december: autism is such a huge tent right now that it's hard to make statements that are true for all


In addition, "real" autism (wherever along the spectrum) is often comorbid with other developmental disorders including sight, hearing, and other forms of mental disorders.

However since there is money to help care for autistic children, everybody with a child who "isn't right" wants a diagnosis of autism. As I recall Jenny McCarthy's kid ("vaccines gave my baby autism") really doesn't qualify as autistic.
 
2013-03-17 08:22:16 PM  

John Buck 41: but the writer of TFA is not someone I would want to encounter in R/L.


I might, even if only to explain that some people don't care, and should not be unloaded upon after they apologize.
 
2013-03-17 09:10:17 PM  
There is no such right not to be disturbed by others in public places not 'typical' because of what fate delt them.  Civility is a two way street, someone is rude when they can help their bad behavior and should be called on it.  Someone is equally rude when they are intolerant of others for being/acting disturbing when they can't help it.

Saying that, the article writer is too sensitive, the old man is obviously just a grump.  He acknowledged he shouldn't shush an autistic child and apologized.  After that point it sounded like he was just annoyed at the mother for continuing a conversation that was closed.
 
2013-03-18 02:34:50 AM  

PunGent: Every time someone questions the stopping power of a .22, I ask if I can shoot them in the chest with one.

No takers yet, oddly.


I'm a huge fan of the .22... The Mk II and Mk III are some of my favorites. I've been thinking about an AR-15 chambered in .22 just for shiats and giggles.
 
2013-03-18 03:05:17 AM  

UnspokenVoice: PunGent: Every time someone questions the stopping power of a .22, I ask if I can shoot them in the chest with one.

No takers yet, oddly.

I'm a huge fan of the .22... The Mk II and Mk III are some of my favorites. I've been thinking about an AR-15 chambered in .22 just for shiats and giggles.


I've been looking for an out of the box AR styled .22, but they tend to either be spendy, or pieces of crap, or both.
 Also worried about high sights(ie the typical carry handle on ar-15 / m16 + the raised front sight) unlike a contemporary hunting/country rifle's very low-profile sights.  I do a lot of plinking at various ranges, varmints and tin cans and the like.  I haven't fired an m-16 for years, but reasoning tells me that a high sight picture relative to the barrel can mess you up as much as a scope for variable ranges..
 
2013-03-18 03:29:35 AM  
May I suggest the smith & wesson M&P 15-22?   The sights are military style removable, and it has a full upper rail.   It's operation is IDENTICAL to an M-4, and costs about 500 dollars.  I own one for use in training, and am very satisfied with it.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_7500 01 _750051_757786_-1_757784_757784_image
 
2013-03-18 06:38:52 AM  

HairBolus: In addition, "real" autism (wherever along the spectrum) is often comorbid with other developmental disorders including sight, hearing, and other forms of mental disorders.


I'm skeptical of this; specifically, I believe it more likely than not that the sensory issues are an inherent part of the autistic package (e.g., you wouldn't call nausea and vertigo comorbid with intoxication).  I'm not aware of any other specific problems that are particularly associated with autism that aren't predictable from the cluster of characteristics; do you have any particular examples?

HairBolus: However since there is money to help care for autistic children, everybody with a child who "isn't right" wants a diagnosis of autism. As I recall Jenny McCarthy's kid ("vaccines gave my baby autism") really doesn't qualify as autistic.


I'm sure this happens to some extent; it'll be interesting to see whether the new research in neurotransmitter chemistry and fMRI studies will be able to lead to reliable lab tests and to what extent those correlate with existing diagnostic practice.  On the high-intelligence end, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that ASDs are still significantly underdiagnosed.

I hadn't heard that particular tidbit about McCarthy, and it didn't show up on Wiki.  Do you have a link about it?
 
2013-03-18 09:55:33 AM  

hundreddollarman: PunGent: Every time someone questions the stopping power of a .22, I ask if I can shoot them in the chest with one.

No takers yet, oddly.

I'm not doubting the lethality of a .22; a well-placed shot to the head is a killer, no matter the caliber.

But when you hear news stories about cops shooting an entire magazine of either 9mm or .40 S&W into some methed-out perp, hitting them only three or four times and that can't bring them down, then I don't think .22, even with a 100 percent hit rate is going to fare any better.

On the other hand, I don't get all the .45 ACP worship either. It's a big bullet, but the idea of a one-shot "man-stopper" seems like a silly myth.


Yep.  The best gun is one you have at hand, and are actually capable of hitting something with.
 
2013-03-18 10:00:07 AM  

UnspokenVoice: PunGent: Every time someone questions the stopping power of a .22, I ask if I can shoot them in the chest with one.

No takers yet, oddly.

I'm a huge fan of the .22... The Mk II and Mk III are some of my favorites. I've been thinking about an AR-15 chambered in .22 just for shiats and giggles.


Huh.

Seems like you're asking for the hassle of an "omfgASSAULTRIFLE" without the...oomph.

WOULD be fun for varmints, etc, of course.

/way overdue for some range time myself
 
2013-03-18 01:21:32 PM  

ciberido: kimmygibblershomework: Folks can marry their houseplant but bog forbid if I want to find my wife's ring in the grass with a metal detector.  A pet peeve of mine is all of the local idiots that bought some regentrified WW2 shoebox and park their car on the street.  Ya have that whole driveway and can't save all of the other users of the road the hassle of avoiding your car because you can't take an extra 15 seconds to back out of your driveway.  As my dad used to say, "the fleas come with the dog". I also appreciate the general 'tude of if I want to enjoy the one day I have off with the woman I love and buy her food and I am irked by someone's behavior, that I am some sort of caveperson.  Just get em a tshirt.  If their own behavior doesn't bother them at all, then why would a tshirt that explains their condition to the public?  We all want to know how special lil Suzy pink panties is also, so as not to offend thee.  Any dog under 25 pounds is not a service dog.  Just get a furby and feed them with your smartphone.  Also get the ADA tattooed on your forehead so we don't have to listen to the "You are NOT ALLOWED to ask me that question!" horseshiat in every airport, eatery, busline, sitcom, fruitbats, orangutans, and sitch.

Are you.... are you having a stroke?  Do you need me to call emergency services?


No. I have autism.  Leave my child alone!  Then re-watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail.  You will shiat yourself.
 
2013-03-18 07:12:37 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Vector R: BumpInTheNight: Earlier this year, I was out to dinner with a friend and our combined eight kids.

Two adults vs 8 eights and some of them with special needs.  Unless its chucky cheese, you are assholes.  No, no arguments, you are assholes.

I was a little on the fence until I saw that part. Can you imagine that crowd at the movies? C'mon now, they cant possibly wait until Saw 5000 has a "special kid showing," or HEAVEN FORBID they wait until it comes out on DVD?

Why is ANYONE taking their kids to some of the movies out lately ffs? The number of small children I saw recently when we went to "Django Unchained" was appalling. Very small children, like, under ten. Do your kids really have to see that many buckets of blood before they reach their teens?


Pretty much. Get ready for some ACTION if you dare to ask them why they have little kids attended a hard R movie. "I DO WHUT I WANTS!!!! FREE COUNTRY!!!!!!"

I just don't to the movies much anymore, and chiefly because of loud, obnoxious patrons.
 
2013-03-18 08:22:19 PM  
This thread is amazing. Right now there are 429 comments and over half (234) have been voted as smartest.

Truly Fark  is a land of high intellects.
 
2013-03-18 08:36:42 PM  

HairBolus: This thread is amazing. Right now there are 429 comments and over half (234) have been voted as smartest.

Truly Fark  is a land of high intellects.


and mine is the smartest!  I am so smart, S-M-R-T!
 
2013-03-18 10:43:49 PM  

HairBolus: This thread is amazing. Right now there are 429 comments and over half (234) have been voted as smartest.

Truly Fark  is a land of high intellects.


Or easily impressed imbeciles....
 
2013-03-19 06:38:31 AM  

HairBolus: This thread is amazing. Right now there are 429 comments and over half (234) have been voted as smartest.

Truly Fark  is a land of high intellects.


My buttons say "smart" and "funny," not "smartEST" or "funnIEST."
 
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