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(Lowell Sun)   If a cop going 75 in a 30 zone with a BAC of 0.14% dies in a wreck, how many motions for reconsideration must the prosecutor file before the judge lets police blame the civilian driver with a BAC of 0.13%?   (lowellsun.com) divider line 132
    More: Asinine, BAC, motions, bus drivers, prosecutors, stop signs  
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10722 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2013 at 3:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-16 04:36:02 PM
As someone who has been arrested and convicted of this particular sin twice and is not even a little bit proud of having done so, I can safely say that regardless of who was more at fault, driving under the influence of alcohol is always bad. Bold declaration, isn't it? The only good things to come out of it are my continued sobriety and the incredibly good fortune that I didn't kill or injure anybody. Not everybody is so lucky.

They both bear some responsibility for this. One has already paid the ultimate price, the other will have to live with what he has done for the rest of his life. You may say that he didn't really do anything wrong, but surely it wasn't his first time driving drunk (as it almost never is) and this time the dice roll came up craps, and he has to answer for that.
 
2013-03-16 04:36:38 PM

This Face Left Blank: The real controversy here is how that cop got to be on the force with judgement like that.


hahahaha not really
seems that bad judgment is a requirement for being a cop
they certainly dont do anything to remove the bad cops who slip through the process
 
2013-03-16 04:37:56 PM
One?

...Oh well, it needed two motions to be filed. That's an improvement, isn't it.
 
2013-03-16 04:38:30 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: As someone who has been arrested and convicted of this particular sin twice and is not even a little bit proud of having done so, I can safely say that regardless of who was more at fault, driving under the influence of alcohol is always bad. Bold declaration, isn't it? The only good things to come out of it are my continued sobriety and the incredibly good fortune that I didn't kill or injure anybody. Not everybody is so lucky.

They both bear some responsibility for this. One has already paid the ultimate price, the other will have to live with what he has done for the rest of his life. You may say that he didn't really do anything wrong, but surely it wasn't his first time driving drunk (as it almost never is) and this time the dice roll came up craps, and he has to answer for that.


DUI arrest ONCE back in 85 ... learned my lesson, never even come close to driving and drinking since then. not worth the cost, the risk, the hassle and most importantly, the risk to life
 
GBB
2013-03-16 04:45:01 PM
Followup question: Is it possible for 2 independent parties to be 100% at fault for the same incident?
 
2013-03-16 04:45:44 PM
I don't see what the civilian going through the stop sign has anything to do with this. First, I don't see how its IMPOSSIBLEEE to get to 22 mph after stopping at a stop sign. If it was a normal intersection, that's not hard at all. I'm guessing he didn't do a FULL 3 second stop, probably did a California stop, making it even easier to get to 22mph. Either way, the main idiot and person who clearly caused this crash is the dumbass cop. Even if the civilian didn't stop at all, he probably would have made it through the intersection without causing any harm if the cop wasn't going 75mph, if you look at the map the intersection is real small, the car probably would have made it across to the other side if the cop wasn't going a ridiculous speed.
 
2013-03-16 04:46:14 PM
Couple folks in this thread with their GEDs in law need to brush up on contributory negligence.
 
2013-03-16 04:47:42 PM

GBB: Followup question: Is it possible for 2 independent parties to be 100% at fault for the same incident?


depends on how the lawyers define the word FAULT.
outside of court, of course not. blame would be split as some fraction of 100% total.
both were drunk
one was speeding at INSANE speeds. what is the punishment for 75 in a 30? loss of license?
while drunk? a lot drunk driving are a year in jail.
one MIGHT have not stopped. might have been a rolling stop.

so yah, I figure 60% cop 40% poor other guy
 
2013-03-16 04:47:57 PM
Who is a bigger danger:

A impaired civilian slow making his way home without getting popped.

A drunk off his ass cop too arrogant to care blazing through a 30 zones at 75.
 
2013-03-16 04:48:07 PM

GBB: Followup question: Is it possible for 2 independent parties to be 100% at fault for the same incident?


Yeah, it's called pregnancy.
 
2013-03-16 04:50:56 PM

PunGent: Couple folks in this thread with their GEDs in law need to brush up on contributory negligence.


doesn not equal 100% fault
 
2013-03-16 05:02:54 PM

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


The cop driving 75 mph was at the very least partially responsible for the accident.  The evidence that the civilian ran the stop sign is based entirely on another cops opinion of how fast he was going at the time of the accident and his guess about whether the guy could get from stopped to 22mph in that distance.  It's possible that he ran the stop sign, and it's possible that he stopped, then took off, then got slammed by the motorcycle which was clearly speeding.
 
2013-03-16 05:03:20 PM

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who the police claim ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


Oh, so 75 was the speed limit on a road connected to a stop sign? That's pretty weird.
 
2013-03-16 05:10:01 PM

JuggleGeek: WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.

The cop driving 75 mph was at the very least partially responsible for the accident.  The evidence that the civilian ran the stop sign is based entirely on another cops opinion of how fast he was going at the time of the accident and his guess about whether the guy could get from stopped to 22mph in that distance.  It's possible that he ran the stop sign, and it's possible that he stopped, then took off, then got slammed by the motorcycle which was clearly speeding.


can we add something else here?
we are constantly told how cops are SPECIAL
that they have a better understanding of the law and what not
that they have moreresponsibility because they carry a badge and gun and serve and protect.
except when they are at fault and then it is ALL the other guy's fault

why is that?
 
2013-03-16 05:13:22 PM
with great power comes great responsibility
why is it that we always see the reverse?
why arent the other cops admitting that this cop severely negligent?
why are they trying to place ALL of the blame on the victim?
 
2013-03-16 05:13:30 PM

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.
 
2013-03-16 05:17:07 PM

namatad: This Face Left Blank: The real controversy here is how that cop got to be on the force with judgement like that.

hahahaha not really
seems that bad judgment is a requirement for being a cop
they certainly dont do anything to remove the bad cops who slip through the process


Point taken.  Allow me to restate: The real controversy here should be how that cop got to be on the force with judgement like that.
 
2013-03-16 05:17:17 PM

doyner: Can't we agree they're both guilty?


Sure, but arresting a dead person is somewhat problematic.
 
2013-03-16 05:17:48 PM
i1.ytimg.com

Both of them got what they deserved.
 
2013-03-16 05:21:29 PM

SploogeTime: The cop died? It's a win-win!


Hardly. Dudes getting charged with vehicular homicide because a cop on a drunken tear with his bike t-boned him.
 
2013-03-16 05:21:39 PM

namatad: PaLarkin: namatad: vpb: unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

yup cop was at fault and got the best punishment possible
/we need to start a movement to get more cops to ride motorcycles drunk

If you actually feel that way, let's hope you are the next one to be hit by a cop driving drunk.

HAHAHAHHA
I live in chicago. I have already been hit by a drunk cop. I was lucky. It was snowing heavily and he was in a car. Without the heavy snow, I would probably be dead.

Strange, they whisked him away and refused to do a breath test. I have NO idea why he was allowed to leave the scene of an accident. Strange. Chicago Cops never cover anything up.


If Chicago cops never cover anything up, I have 40 acres of prime beachfront property  10 miles east of Yuma that I'd like to sell you.
 
2013-03-16 05:22:33 PM

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


The guy being charged caused the accident (if he ran the stop sign) and the cop made certain it was fatal by driving 75mph in a 30mph zone on a motorcycle. Basically it was a worst case scenario where nobody was in the right.
 
2013-03-16 05:29:02 PM

kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.


add to it ... that the driver who stopped, SAW the motorcycle in the far distance and had plenty of time to cross the road. ONLY because the motorcycle was speeding was this not true.

you could easily do the math to compute distances based on known speed of the motorcycle
but I am so lazy right now ....

DAMN IT
typical 2 lane intersection is ~ 20ft, add in 10ft for curbs and what not
30ft width

22 mph = 32 ft/sec
so double that for acceleration from a full stop
cross traffic was in the intersection for 1-2 seconds, depending on full stop, rolling stop, no stop

75mph = 110 ft/sec
at that speed the motorcycle covered 100ft ever second.

so you stop ... you look, you see the guy 100+ ft away, you proceed through the intersection.
instead of it taking him 3-5 seconds to get to the intersection and completely miss you, he t-bones you.

PLUS, every rational driver slows down while approaching an intersection. right?
give this basic physics, cop was 100% at fault.

the intersection would have been COMPLETELY clear if the cop had not been speeding.
/kill the cop ... wait he is dead already and they are trying to blame the innocent guy??? F'EM
 
2013-03-16 05:31:04 PM

gobstopping: The guy being charged caused the accident (if he ran the stop sign) and the cop made certain it was fatal by driving 75mph in a 30mph zone on a motorcycle. Basically it was a worst case scenario where nobody was in the right.


nope
speeding cop caused the accident by entering the intersection 2-10 seconds before a rational driver could expect him to given the speed limit. physics proved that the cop was at fault, lying cops who were not there are now trying to PROVE that it was the other safe drivers fault.

bet they even faked the blood test
;-)
 
2013-03-16 05:39:26 PM

jaylectricity: cmunic8r99: I you're going to get on a motorcycle drunk, you are trying to activate your organ donor card. They should have charged the civilian under whatever assisted suicide laws they have.

Why don't you tell that cute story about your mom, the nurse and that cute name they invented for motorcycles?


Sure. They called it a, "What the hell are you talking about?"
 
2013-03-16 05:40:12 PM
Chan definitely deserve some sort of punishment for driving drunk and MAYBE not stopping completely at a stop sign, but give me a farking break, the cop was 99.99% at fault here. It seems like the department is more concerned about sheltering itself. Not surprising.

FTA: impossible acceleration

Sorry, I've seen cop math before, I wouldn't buy this load if you payed me to take it.
 
2013-03-16 05:40:46 PM
It's too bad the drunk car driver didn't get killed as well.  That would have been perfect.
 
2013-03-16 05:47:30 PM

kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.


It's harder to judge the speed of a vehicle that has just one headlight, as opposed to a vehicle with two headlights.

/just sayin'
 
2013-03-16 05:49:05 PM

StatelyGreekAutomaton: So if a cop is killed in an accident he caused, is he still put on paid administrative leave?


Something-something owe me a keyboard.
 
2013-03-16 05:50:41 PM

kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.


That happened to a friend of mine, motorcycle was doing 50 in a 25 zone, and my friend pulled out in front of him.  In general most simply fail to notice other vehicles that are out of the typical threat range.  It's worse at night.

So yeah I'd discount anything the police say.
 
2013-03-16 06:07:40 PM
the speeding guy caused it
 
2013-03-16 06:13:26 PM
do you know what's REALLY being left out here? too drunk civilians had a car crash.
WHY is that one of them was an officer even part of the discussion? period?
WHY are other cops making a federal case out of "proving" that the speeding drunk driver was LESS at fault than the drunk by driving slowly driver?

ooooooooooooooooooo cops are special

/until they get treated like civilians, expect us to keep hating them for being treated like nuevo royalty
 
2013-03-16 06:15:15 PM
geeze. both were drunk.  no charges should have been filed as the officer is just as to blame for his death as the other driver..

if the cop had no drank and drive he would not have been in the accident that claimed his life.

at worst the guy driving the car should lose his license and pay a fine as the cop should be expected to use good judgement even whennot onthe joband the officer clearly did not.

My condolences to the officer's family.
 
2013-03-16 06:15:17 PM

vicejay: kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.

It's harder to judge the speed of a vehicle that has just one headlight, as opposed to a vehicle with two headlights.

/just sayin'


That defends chan even more.
 
2013-03-16 06:20:40 PM

vicejay: kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.

It's harder to judge the speed of a vehicle that has just one headlight, as opposed to a vehicle with two headlights.

/just sayin'


go a step further
I am pretty CERTAIN, that the person entering an intersection MUST yield to a car already in the intersection. period.

motorcycle T-BONE the car ....
cop was at fault for entering the intersection

here is yet another interesting missing fact
HOW much of a skid mark was there from the motorcycle attempting to break? none? lots? we scrubbed the road so there is no evidence anymore??
 
2013-03-16 06:24:28 PM
"Chan's blood-alcohol content was .13, nearly twice the legal limit of .08"

Cop/Prosecutor math?? How is 13 nearly double of 8?  Apparently, 62.5% = 100% when someone wants to place the blame on a civilian for causing the cop to drink and speed.
 
2013-03-16 06:24:45 PM
Dunno if it has been mentioned, but even if 22MPH is an excessive speed after a full stop, if you saw a motorcycle blazing towards you, don't you think you'd speed up?
 
2013-03-16 06:26:55 PM

Musikslayer: "Chan's blood-alcohol content was .13, nearly twice the legal limit of .08"

Cop/Prosecutor math?? How is 13 nearly double of 8?  Apparently, 62.5% = 100% when someone wants to place the blame on a civilian for causing the cop to drink and speed.


Hah. I bet the cop was at just barely halfway over the legal limit as well.
 
2013-03-16 06:33:06 PM

namatad: kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.

add to it ... that the driver who stopped, SAW the motorcycle in the far distance and had plenty of time to cross the road. ONLY because the motorcycle was speeding was this not true.

you could easily do the math to compute distances based on known speed of the motorcycle
but I am so lazy right now ....

DAMN IT
typical 2 lane intersection is ~ 20ft, add in 10ft for curbs and what not
30ft width

22 mph = 32 ft/sec
so double that for acceleration from a full stop
cross traffic was in the intersection for 1-2 seconds, depending on full stop, rolling stop, no stop

75mph = 110 ft/sec
at that speed the motorcycle covered 100ft ever second.

so you stop ... you look, you see the guy 100+ ft away, you proceed through the intersection.
instead of it taking him 3-5 seconds to get to the intersection and completely miss you, he t-bones you.

PLUS, every rational driver slows down while approaching an intersection. right?
give this basic physics, cop was 100% at fault.

the intersection would have been COMPLETELY clear if the cop had not been speeding.
/kill the cop ... wait he is dead already and they are trying to blame the innocent guy??? F'EM


We assume it was a Hardly-Ableson, so the arcane question of "stopping" does not factor in the same way (linky blinky, so DNRTFA).

Those obsolete agricultural implements are overweight, poorly suspended behemoths with feeble brakes. If the cop had been on an R-1 with steel brake lines and racing tires, well, he might still have stopped or maybe still dead from the precipitous halt - but he would have died with more panache...
 
2013-03-16 06:38:13 PM

thenateman: If Florida had a sane helmet law, the cop would be back on the force and the other driver would be in prison where he belongs.


A helmet probably isn't going to help a lot if you're going 75 MPH on a motorcycle and hit something relatively stationary.
 
2013-03-16 06:45:38 PM
I call for NFL rules on this, since no other people were involved in the accident and both drivers were drunk and shouldn't even been on road, I say both fouls cancel each other out.  Charge each for with DWI and move one.  Take the fines out of the dead cop's estate.  Neither will be held accountable for the other.

/I move on now
 
2013-03-16 06:52:07 PM
Google some of the older articles about this crash, they'll all have this description:

"An off-duty Lowell police officer was struck and killed by an alleged drunk driver early yesterday morning, officials said. Sergeant Patrick Johnson, 31, of Lowell, a six-year veteran of the department, was riding his motorcycle at Princeton Boulevard and Foster Street in Lowell around 12:30 a.m. when he was struck by another vehicle. "

The initial reports always describe the car hitting the motorcycle and not the other way around.

The earlier articles also state that the officer's wife was driving behind him in a car and witnessed the accident.
 
2013-03-16 06:52:09 PM

Dictatorial_Flair: thenateman: If Florida had a sane helmet law, the cop would be back on the force and the other driver would be in prison where he belongs.

A helmet probably isn't going to help a lot if you're going 75 MPH on a motorcycle and hit something relatively stationary.


Anyone who has ever taken a motorcycle saftey class knows that any collision over 35, with or without a helmet, and you are more then likely dead.
 
2013-03-16 06:53:57 PM

Chagrin: The earlier articles also state that the officer's wife was driving behind him in a car and witnessed the accident.


I assume the dept. is hot on the task of charging her for also driving 75 in a 30?
 
2013-03-16 07:01:42 PM

Chagrin: The earlier articles also state that the officer's wife was driving behind him in a car and witnessed the accident.


That kinda makes it sound like the cop and his wife were having a drunken tiff that they took on the road.
 
2013-03-16 07:05:26 PM

que.guero: If you really want some outrage, Google the case of Bismarck Dinius in Clear Lake California. Or for convenience, here's a link --  http://justicefordinius.home.comcast.net/~justicefordinius/dinius/The _ Strange_Case_of_Bismarck_Dinius.html


I'm sorry, I'm still a nautical novice, but does't a sailboat always have right of way over any power boat?
 
2013-03-16 07:21:31 PM
FTFA:While both men were allegedly legally drunk at the time of the crash, the Middlesex district attorney's office charged Chan with motor-vehicle homicide under the contributory-negligence law.

Contributory-negligence suggests his failure to stop contributed to the accident, which is true if he didn't stop, though the facts on that still seem unable to be determined, and if they cannot be made fact, ("All the facts and circumstances of this collision are not known. ..." ) then I'm not sure how a jury could properly find a guilty verdict.

However, nothing is saying the idiot cop on the bike wasn't at fault, the case being discussed in the article is just saying there wasn't a 100% at fault party.  The smaller a vehicle is, the further away it will usually appear than it is, already lessening the actual time to intersection than the average person would expect... now, have that vehicle going 75 instead of 30 (or even 40 if someone's doing the standard 10 over) and whatever your perception was, is only a fraction of the actual time.
 
2013-03-16 07:28:02 PM

SploogeTime: The cop died? It's a win-win!


That comment, when coupled with your user name...
 
2013-03-16 07:39:25 PM
It's not like they can charge a dead guy.
 
2013-03-16 07:43:18 PM

Ambivalence: It's not like they can would charge a dead guy cop.

 
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