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(Lowell Sun)   If a cop going 75 in a 30 zone with a BAC of 0.14% dies in a wreck, how many motions for reconsideration must the prosecutor file before the judge lets police blame the civilian driver with a BAC of 0.13%?   (lowellsun.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, BAC, motions, bus drivers, prosecutors, stop signs  
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10753 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2013 at 3:46 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



132 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-03-16 12:13:34 PM  
Trick question!

The cops would have covered up their fellow officer's drunkenness and blamed the civilian from the beginning.
 
2013-03-16 12:37:39 PM  
Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian doing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.
 
2013-03-16 12:53:36 PM  
I you're going to get on a motorcycle drunk, you are trying to activate your organ donor card. They should have charged the civilian under whatever assisted suicide laws they have.
 
2013-03-16 12:54:14 PM  
If...

/dammit
 
2013-03-16 01:11:41 PM  
Roderick estimated Johnson [the cop] was going 75 mph as he sped through the intersection, while Chan [the non-cop], who says he stopped at the stop sign before going through the intersection, was traveling 22 mph.

While both men were allegedly legally drunk at the time of the crash, the Middlesex district attorney's office charged Chan with motor-vehicle homicide under the contributory-negligence law.

 

Yeah.  And the cop-suckers here wonder why people want nothing to do with cops, and call on them only out of desperation.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-16 01:37:42 PM  
Hopefully none.  If the guy ran a stop sigh then it was his fault.  It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

I guess it's a good way to troll the gang bangers and kiddies though.
 
2013-03-16 01:50:49 PM  

vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.


75 in a 30 had nothing to do with it
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-03-16 02:04:16 PM  

unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

75 in a 30 had nothing to do with it


No.  It isn't a matter of who was going faster or who was drunker, it's a matter of who caused the accident.
The case was all about whether the guy in the Honda ran the stop sign or not.  The speed of the guy on the motorcycle has nothing to do with that.
 
2013-03-16 02:35:19 PM  
FTA: Prosecutors allege that Chan, 28, of Lowell, was legally drunk during the early-morning hours of Sept. 11, 2010 when he drove through a stop sign on Foster Street in Lowell.

Well, if he was legally drunk, what's the problem? I don't have a problem with people following the law.

cmunic8r99: I you're going to get on a motorcycle drunk, you are trying to activate your organ donor card. They should have charged the civilian under whatever assisted suicide laws they have.


Why don't you tell that cute story about your mom, the nurse and that cute name they invented for motorcycles?
 
2013-03-16 02:54:41 PM  
Chan was drunk.  He shouldn't have been driving.  Perhaps they're over zealous in going after him, but he was drinking and driving.  My sympathy is little for either of them.
 
2013-03-16 02:55:24 PM  
Obviously the cop was at fault. Anyone with a lick of common sense should see that.

I have no possible idea why the local DA is going for this.
 
2013-03-16 03:03:35 PM  
Man, a drunk-driving thread mixed with a cop-hate thread. This should be fun.
 
2013-03-16 03:04:10 PM  
And motorcycles!
 
2013-03-16 03:43:51 PM  
Can't we agree they're both guilty?
 
2013-03-16 03:50:46 PM  
Kill whichever drunk survived. Case closed
 
2013-03-16 03:55:25 PM  
The accident may be Chan's fault, but suppose the cop was following the speed limit? He probably wouldn't have died. So it seems unfair to charge Chan with vehicular manslaughter. He should be charged with causing injury, not death.
 
2013-03-16 03:56:22 PM  

unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

75 in a 30 had nothing to do with it


15 in a 30 would have avoided it.
 
2013-03-16 03:57:03 PM  
If you really want some outrage, Google the case of Bismarck Dinius in Clear Lake California. Or for convenience, here's a link --  http://justicefordinius.home.comcast.net/~justicefordinius/dinius/The _ Strange_Case_of_Bismarck_Dinius.html
 
2013-03-16 04:00:08 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: The cops would have covered up their fellow officer's drunkenness and blamed the civilian from the beginning.


Decent chance they tried that and farked it up because the coroner ran toxicology tests on the dead cop. Come on, do people really believe that cops don't spike blood samples?
 
2013-03-16 04:00:52 PM  
Why do I think that if the cop had run the stop sign and been hit by the speeding civilian, it would still be the cop's fault, according to the FARK legal experts.
 
2013-03-16 04:01:13 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Chan was drunk.  He shouldn't have been driving.  Perhaps they're over zealous in going after him, but he was drinking and driving.  My sympathy is little for either of them.


DUI is a lesser crime than the vehicular homicide.  There's a lot of information missing here.  Was it a 4 way stop?  How far from the stop sign was the impact?  Did they take into account the fact that an accelerating car is going to have a different set of properties in an accident as compared to a car holding steady at 22mph?  They're awfully quick to say 'We don't know all the facts and have no reliable witnesses.' but then follow up with 'We know they ran the stop sign because of the coefficient of friction.'  The fact that there's a stop sign says the speed limit probably isn't much higher than 45mph on that road anyway...someone going 75mph in a 45mph zone might very well be missed by someone that legally stopped and looked both ways.

I have little sympathy for drunk drivers, but we're going to read all about the just and moral cop who made a bad decision and the horrible murderer that set out to kill him.
 
2013-03-16 04:01:18 PM  
Cops are like the Pope, infallible
 
2013-03-16 04:01:19 PM  
Both definitely guilty, but circumstances should give some leniency to the defendant given that the other guy was also very drunk AND driving like a maniac. Either way the guy's life is probably ruined. Don't drive drunk, people. An expensive cab ride is way more preferable than the chance of a DUI or killing someone.
 
2013-03-16 04:03:22 PM  

bdub77: Both definitely guilty, but circumstances should give some leniency to the defendant given that the other guy was also very drunk AND driving like a maniac. Either way the guy's life is probably ruined. Don't drive drunk, people. An expensive cab ride is way more preferable than the chance of a DUI or killing someone.


We need a law mandating a sufficiently stocked bar within walking distance of all residential buildings
 
2013-03-16 04:04:38 PM  
2004 case in Austin... 100+ off-duty cops on a motorcycle poker run across the county, stopping at five bars along the way.  Two cops (husband and wife) killed in crash, waaaaay over the limit.

Of course they tried to pin it on the last bar who served them.

And I'm pretty sure the other 98 cops were sober.
 
2013-03-16 04:04:43 PM  
Looks like this is bad news for Chan.

/DNRTFA
 
2013-03-16 04:04:54 PM  

que.guero: If you really want some outrage, Google the case of Bismarck Dinius in Clear Lake California. Or for convenience, here's a link --  http://justicefordinius.home.comcast.net/~justicefordinius/dinius/The _ Strange_Case_of_Bismarck_Dinius.html


Wow. What a clusterf*ck.
 
2013-03-16 04:06:20 PM  

GentDirkly: The accident may be Chan's fault, but suppose the cop was following the speed limit? He probably wouldn't have died. So it seems unfair to charge Chan with vehicular manslaughter. He should be charged with causing injury, not death.


There's some question as to whether or not he stopped at the stop sign.  The prosecution's entire basis for saying he didn't is that his vehicle was supposedly traveling at 22mph when the impact occurred.

Without knowing how far away the impact site is from the stop sign he supposedly ran and the condition of the vehicle it's all speculation, but I can say that even my little brother's busted-ass I4 Comanche can get up to 25 mph before it clears a residential intersection from a full stop, and that thing is old and pokey.

I guess it's up to the defense to demonstrate that his car could at this point.  If they do... yeah, he was drunk, but being drunk doesn't (or shouldn't) automatically make you at fault even if the other party was doing something phenomenally stupid and you were obeying traffic laws (save for the drunk part).  It's not like a DUI conviction is a slap on the wrist that desperately needs additional punishment heaped atop it.
 
2013-03-16 04:07:10 PM  
If Florida had a sane helmet law, the cop would be back on the force and the other driver would be in prison where he belongs.
 
2013-03-16 04:10:23 PM  
Drunk, Motorcycle, speeding ..... Darwin lets all move on now.
 
2013-03-16 04:14:22 PM  
They were both at fault since both were drunk.  If the guy in the car hadn't run the stop sign, the cop wouldn't have plowed into him.  If the cop weren't drunk, he would probably have been doing much less than 75.  Then he would have arrived at the intersection later and probably after the other guy was gone.  If the cop had survived the wreck, he would deserve to be fired and treated like any other person who did what he did.
 
2013-03-16 04:14:38 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Roderick estimated Johnson [the cop] was going 75 mph as he sped through the intersection, while Chan [the non-cop], who says he stopped at the stop sign before going through the intersection, was traveling 22 mph.

While both men were allegedly legally drunk at the time of the crash, the Middlesex district attorney's office charged Chan with motor-vehicle homicide under the contributory-negligence law.
 

Yeah.  And the cop-suckers here wonder why people want nothing to do with cops, and call on them only out of desperation.


^This. Hey at least we can all agree the cop got what he deserved.
 
2013-03-16 04:15:12 PM  

vpb: unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

75 in a 30 had nothing to do with it

No.  It isn't a matter of who was going faster or who was drunker, it's a matter of who caused the accident.
The case was all about whether the guy in the Honda ran the stop sign or not.  The speed of the guy on the motorcycle has nothing to do with that.


well the guy on the motorcycle T-BONED the car at 74 miles an hour
1) way over the legal limit
2) illegally entered an intersection while there was cross traffic
3) HIT vehicle in the intersection

yup cop was at fault and got the best punishment possible
/we need to start a movement to get more cops to ride motorcycles drunk
 
2013-03-16 04:15:39 PM  
They were both drunk, but doing 75 in a 30 is reckless driving/reckless endangerment.  That is more serious than running a stop sign.  There is a lot of information missing in this article though.  Probably got "misplaced" in the evidence room.  The guy is getting railroaded.
 
2013-03-16 04:17:30 PM  

doyner: Can't we agree they're both guilty?


No, because that would mean admitting the cop was guilty.  And that's the point.
If it was two non-cops in a crash, then that's what they'd go for.  But with the cops closing ranks around each other, this happens.

/seen it happen here too
//also one case of a local "author" (who, in my opinion, made shiatty slang-filled 'local idiot flavor' parodies, but that's just my opinion) who got so blitzed she went the wrong way on the highway and duly got into a head-on collision with some other poor sucker who totally wasn't expecting that kind of complete screwup.  News fell all over itself talking about how much of a tragedy it was that a 'local author killed in crash'...not 'local author got drunk as shiat and almost killed somebody else via spectacular intoxicated negligence, taking herself out in the process'
 
2013-03-16 04:21:01 PM  

PaLarkin: If the guy in the car hadn't run the stop sign,


except he didnt run the stop sign
he stopped
looked both ways
entered the intersection with plenty of time to clear intersection

and insane suicidal murderer, doing 75mph on motorcycle came out of no where and blindsided him

the only good thing to come out of this is that the suicidal maniac was successful at committing suicide.
/wait, people ride a bike at night, blind drunk and do 75 in a 30 zone through an intersection and are NOT suicidal?? HAHAHAH no ... I dont believe that.
 
2013-03-16 04:22:15 PM  

jaylectricity: And motorcycles!


And tentacle porn!  Well... Chan is an Asian name. And Japan is an Asian country. And tentacle porn comes from...... oh hell, I tried.
 
2013-03-16 04:22:32 PM  

andychrist420: The guy is getting railroaded.


but we HAVE to railroad the other guy!!!
otherwise it is all the drunk suicidal cop' fault
and everyone KNOWS that there are no bad cops
so it MUST have been the other drivers fault

HAHAHHA HAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAA
/we need a couple more "good" cops to repeat this trick
/just until we get rid of those last few bad apples
 
2013-03-16 04:22:50 PM  

namatad: vpb: unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

yup cop was at fault and got the best punishment possible
/we need to start a movement to get more cops to ride motorcycles drunk


If you actually feel that way, let's hope you are the next one to be hit by a cop driving drunk.
 
2013-03-16 04:23:27 PM  

thenateman: If Florida had a sane helmet law, the cop would be back on the force and the other driver would be in prison where he belongs.


ROFL!!@#~!@!@!@!#!#!
sorry but drunk cop at 75 tboning innocent citizen would probably have still killed the insane drunk cop
 
2013-03-16 04:25:16 PM  

PaLarkin: namatad: vpb: unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

yup cop was at fault and got the best punishment possible
/we need to start a movement to get more cops to ride motorcycles drunk

If you actually feel that way, let's hope you are the next one to be hit by a cop driving drunk.


HAHAHAHHA
I live in chicago. I have already been hit by a drunk cop. I was lucky. It was snowing heavily and he was in a car. Without the heavy snow, I would probably be dead.

Strange, they whisked him away and refused to do a breath test. I have NO idea why he was allowed to leave the scene of an accident. Strange. Chicago Cops never cover anything up.
 
2013-03-16 04:25:18 PM  

thenateman: If Florida had a sane helmet law, the cop would be back on the force and the other driver would be in prison where he belongs.


What the fark has Floriduh got to do with it?  This incident happened in Massachusetts.  If a cop is fool enough to drive drunk, aren't we better off without him?
 
2013-03-16 04:28:29 PM  
I know this kind of stuff is frowned up here, but you can google up Princeton Blvd and Foster St in Lowell MA and actually see the scene of the accident. The motorcycle was heading down Princeton and the car was on Foster.  My opinion is that only a moron would drive 75 MPH on Princeton there.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&safe=off&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv. 43 828540,d.b2I&biw=1337&bih=779&q=princeton+blvd+and+foster+lowell+ma&um =1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89e3a4865761980f:0xb413256bc4762d99,Princeton+ Blvd+%26+Foster+St,+Lowell,+MA+01851&gl=us&sa=X&ei=mNREUamWHau62gXdwIC wBQ&ved=0CC0Q8gEwAA
 
2013-03-16 04:29:43 PM  

kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.


Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.
 
JVD
2013-03-16 04:30:12 PM  
The only winner in this incident is the gene pool.
 
2013-03-16 04:31:49 PM  
The fact is, a cop should have known better than to operate a motor vehicle while drunk. I'm sure at some point he had arrested someone for that very offense. He probably figured he was above it, like most do. A fellow officer would have taken him home if caught. Karma stepped into both their lives, both were guilty, both paid.
 
2013-03-16 04:32:20 PM  
75mph in a 30mph zone?  I've NEVER been so drunk that I would find that to be a good idea.  Never.  Getting on a motorcycle while well over the legal limit is another lapse in judgement.  75 in a 30 WHILE drunk on a motorcycle?  Holy shiat.  Both drivers are at fault: they were drunk and they ignored traffic laws.  The real controversy here is how that cop got to be on the force with judgement like that.
 
2013-03-16 04:33:16 PM  
So if a cop is killed in an accident he caused, is he still put on paid administrative leave?
 
2013-03-16 04:34:20 PM  

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


Do you think going 75 in a 30 zone contributed at all? Probably not, it was a cop, so that doesn't factor in.
 
2013-03-16 04:34:48 PM  

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


actually, looks like the law faults the one with the higher blood alcohol with causing the accident.
cop caused the accident while committing suicide ...
but go ahead and pretend that you know something
 
2013-03-16 04:36:02 PM  
As someone who has been arrested and convicted of this particular sin twice and is not even a little bit proud of having done so, I can safely say that regardless of who was more at fault, driving under the influence of alcohol is always bad. Bold declaration, isn't it? The only good things to come out of it are my continued sobriety and the incredibly good fortune that I didn't kill or injure anybody. Not everybody is so lucky.

They both bear some responsibility for this. One has already paid the ultimate price, the other will have to live with what he has done for the rest of his life. You may say that he didn't really do anything wrong, but surely it wasn't his first time driving drunk (as it almost never is) and this time the dice roll came up craps, and he has to answer for that.
 
2013-03-16 04:36:38 PM  

This Face Left Blank: The real controversy here is how that cop got to be on the force with judgement like that.


hahahaha not really
seems that bad judgment is a requirement for being a cop
they certainly dont do anything to remove the bad cops who slip through the process
 
2013-03-16 04:37:56 PM  
One?

...Oh well, it needed two motions to be filed. That's an improvement, isn't it.
 
2013-03-16 04:38:30 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: As someone who has been arrested and convicted of this particular sin twice and is not even a little bit proud of having done so, I can safely say that regardless of who was more at fault, driving under the influence of alcohol is always bad. Bold declaration, isn't it? The only good things to come out of it are my continued sobriety and the incredibly good fortune that I didn't kill or injure anybody. Not everybody is so lucky.

They both bear some responsibility for this. One has already paid the ultimate price, the other will have to live with what he has done for the rest of his life. You may say that he didn't really do anything wrong, but surely it wasn't his first time driving drunk (as it almost never is) and this time the dice roll came up craps, and he has to answer for that.


DUI arrest ONCE back in 85 ... learned my lesson, never even come close to driving and drinking since then. not worth the cost, the risk, the hassle and most importantly, the risk to life
 
GBB
2013-03-16 04:45:01 PM  
Followup question: Is it possible for 2 independent parties to be 100% at fault for the same incident?
 
2013-03-16 04:45:44 PM  
I don't see what the civilian going through the stop sign has anything to do with this. First, I don't see how its IMPOSSIBLEEE to get to 22 mph after stopping at a stop sign. If it was a normal intersection, that's not hard at all. I'm guessing he didn't do a FULL 3 second stop, probably did a California stop, making it even easier to get to 22mph. Either way, the main idiot and person who clearly caused this crash is the dumbass cop. Even if the civilian didn't stop at all, he probably would have made it through the intersection without causing any harm if the cop wasn't going 75mph, if you look at the map the intersection is real small, the car probably would have made it across to the other side if the cop wasn't going a ridiculous speed.
 
2013-03-16 04:46:14 PM  
Couple folks in this thread with their GEDs in law need to brush up on contributory negligence.
 
2013-03-16 04:47:42 PM  

GBB: Followup question: Is it possible for 2 independent parties to be 100% at fault for the same incident?


depends on how the lawyers define the word FAULT.
outside of court, of course not. blame would be split as some fraction of 100% total.
both were drunk
one was speeding at INSANE speeds. what is the punishment for 75 in a 30? loss of license?
while drunk? a lot drunk driving are a year in jail.
one MIGHT have not stopped. might have been a rolling stop.

so yah, I figure 60% cop 40% poor other guy
 
2013-03-16 04:47:57 PM  
Who is a bigger danger:

A impaired civilian slow making his way home without getting popped.

A drunk off his ass cop too arrogant to care blazing through a 30 zones at 75.
 
2013-03-16 04:48:07 PM  

GBB: Followup question: Is it possible for 2 independent parties to be 100% at fault for the same incident?


Yeah, it's called pregnancy.
 
2013-03-16 04:50:56 PM  

PunGent: Couple folks in this thread with their GEDs in law need to brush up on contributory negligence.


doesn not equal 100% fault
 
2013-03-16 05:02:54 PM  

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


The cop driving 75 mph was at the very least partially responsible for the accident.  The evidence that the civilian ran the stop sign is based entirely on another cops opinion of how fast he was going at the time of the accident and his guess about whether the guy could get from stopped to 22mph in that distance.  It's possible that he ran the stop sign, and it's possible that he stopped, then took off, then got slammed by the motorcycle which was clearly speeding.
 
2013-03-16 05:03:20 PM  

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who the police claim ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


Oh, so 75 was the speed limit on a road connected to a stop sign? That's pretty weird.
 
2013-03-16 05:10:01 PM  

JuggleGeek: WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.

The cop driving 75 mph was at the very least partially responsible for the accident.  The evidence that the civilian ran the stop sign is based entirely on another cops opinion of how fast he was going at the time of the accident and his guess about whether the guy could get from stopped to 22mph in that distance.  It's possible that he ran the stop sign, and it's possible that he stopped, then took off, then got slammed by the motorcycle which was clearly speeding.


can we add something else here?
we are constantly told how cops are SPECIAL
that they have a better understanding of the law and what not
that they have moreresponsibility because they carry a badge and gun and serve and protect.
except when they are at fault and then it is ALL the other guy's fault

why is that?
 
2013-03-16 05:13:22 PM  
with great power comes great responsibility
why is it that we always see the reverse?
why arent the other cops admitting that this cop severely negligent?
why are they trying to place ALL of the blame on the victim?
 
2013-03-16 05:13:30 PM  

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.
 
2013-03-16 05:17:07 PM  

namatad: This Face Left Blank: The real controversy here is how that cop got to be on the force with judgement like that.

hahahaha not really
seems that bad judgment is a requirement for being a cop
they certainly dont do anything to remove the bad cops who slip through the process


Point taken.  Allow me to restate: The real controversy here should be how that cop got to be on the force with judgement like that.
 
2013-03-16 05:17:17 PM  

doyner: Can't we agree they're both guilty?


Sure, but arresting a dead person is somewhat problematic.
 
2013-03-16 05:17:48 PM  
i1.ytimg.com

Both of them got what they deserved.
 
2013-03-16 05:21:29 PM  

SploogeTime: The cop died? It's a win-win!


Hardly. Dudes getting charged with vehicular homicide because a cop on a drunken tear with his bike t-boned him.
 
2013-03-16 05:21:39 PM  

namatad: PaLarkin: namatad: vpb: unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

yup cop was at fault and got the best punishment possible
/we need to start a movement to get more cops to ride motorcycles drunk

If you actually feel that way, let's hope you are the next one to be hit by a cop driving drunk.

HAHAHAHHA
I live in chicago. I have already been hit by a drunk cop. I was lucky. It was snowing heavily and he was in a car. Without the heavy snow, I would probably be dead.

Strange, they whisked him away and refused to do a breath test. I have NO idea why he was allowed to leave the scene of an accident. Strange. Chicago Cops never cover anything up.


If Chicago cops never cover anything up, I have 40 acres of prime beachfront property  10 miles east of Yuma that I'd like to sell you.
 
2013-03-16 05:22:33 PM  

WinoRhino: kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian who ran a stop signdoing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.

Cop lost his life. This guy caused the accident. But because it's a cop, and all farkers hate cops, we should blame the cops. Not the guy who was also driving drunk and ran a stop sign causing the accident. Did I mention he caused the accident? Because he caused the accident.


The guy being charged caused the accident (if he ran the stop sign) and the cop made certain it was fatal by driving 75mph in a 30mph zone on a motorcycle. Basically it was a worst case scenario where nobody was in the right.
 
2013-03-16 05:29:02 PM  

kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.


add to it ... that the driver who stopped, SAW the motorcycle in the far distance and had plenty of time to cross the road. ONLY because the motorcycle was speeding was this not true.

you could easily do the math to compute distances based on known speed of the motorcycle
but I am so lazy right now ....

DAMN IT
typical 2 lane intersection is ~ 20ft, add in 10ft for curbs and what not
30ft width

22 mph = 32 ft/sec
so double that for acceleration from a full stop
cross traffic was in the intersection for 1-2 seconds, depending on full stop, rolling stop, no stop

75mph = 110 ft/sec
at that speed the motorcycle covered 100ft ever second.

so you stop ... you look, you see the guy 100+ ft away, you proceed through the intersection.
instead of it taking him 3-5 seconds to get to the intersection and completely miss you, he t-bones you.

PLUS, every rational driver slows down while approaching an intersection. right?
give this basic physics, cop was 100% at fault.

the intersection would have been COMPLETELY clear if the cop had not been speeding.
/kill the cop ... wait he is dead already and they are trying to blame the innocent guy??? F'EM
 
2013-03-16 05:31:04 PM  

gobstopping: The guy being charged caused the accident (if he ran the stop sign) and the cop made certain it was fatal by driving 75mph in a 30mph zone on a motorcycle. Basically it was a worst case scenario where nobody was in the right.


nope
speeding cop caused the accident by entering the intersection 2-10 seconds before a rational driver could expect him to given the speed limit. physics proved that the cop was at fault, lying cops who were not there are now trying to PROVE that it was the other safe drivers fault.

bet they even faked the blood test
;-)
 
2013-03-16 05:39:26 PM  

jaylectricity: cmunic8r99: I you're going to get on a motorcycle drunk, you are trying to activate your organ donor card. They should have charged the civilian under whatever assisted suicide laws they have.

Why don't you tell that cute story about your mom, the nurse and that cute name they invented for motorcycles?


Sure. They called it a, "What the hell are you talking about?"
 
2013-03-16 05:40:12 PM  
Chan definitely deserve some sort of punishment for driving drunk and MAYBE not stopping completely at a stop sign, but give me a farking break, the cop was 99.99% at fault here. It seems like the department is more concerned about sheltering itself. Not surprising.

FTA: impossible acceleration

Sorry, I've seen cop math before, I wouldn't buy this load if you payed me to take it.
 
2013-03-16 05:40:46 PM  
It's too bad the drunk car driver didn't get killed as well.  That would have been perfect.
 
2013-03-16 05:47:30 PM  

kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.


It's harder to judge the speed of a vehicle that has just one headlight, as opposed to a vehicle with two headlights.

/just sayin'
 
2013-03-16 05:49:05 PM  

StatelyGreekAutomaton: So if a cop is killed in an accident he caused, is he still put on paid administrative leave?


Something-something owe me a keyboard.
 
2013-03-16 05:50:41 PM  

kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.


That happened to a friend of mine, motorcycle was doing 50 in a 25 zone, and my friend pulled out in front of him.  In general most simply fail to notice other vehicles that are out of the typical threat range.  It's worse at night.

So yeah I'd discount anything the police say.
 
2013-03-16 06:07:40 PM  
the speeding guy caused it
 
2013-03-16 06:13:26 PM  
do you know what's REALLY being left out here? too drunk civilians had a car crash.
WHY is that one of them was an officer even part of the discussion? period?
WHY are other cops making a federal case out of "proving" that the speeding drunk driver was LESS at fault than the drunk by driving slowly driver?

ooooooooooooooooooo cops are special

/until they get treated like civilians, expect us to keep hating them for being treated like nuevo royalty
 
2013-03-16 06:15:15 PM  
geeze. both were drunk.  no charges should have been filed as the officer is just as to blame for his death as the other driver..

if the cop had no drank and drive he would not have been in the accident that claimed his life.

at worst the guy driving the car should lose his license and pay a fine as the cop should be expected to use good judgement even whennot onthe joband the officer clearly did not.

My condolences to the officer's family.
 
2013-03-16 06:15:17 PM  

vicejay: kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.

It's harder to judge the speed of a vehicle that has just one headlight, as opposed to a vehicle with two headlights.

/just sayin'


That defends chan even more.
 
2013-03-16 06:20:40 PM  

vicejay: kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.

It's harder to judge the speed of a vehicle that has just one headlight, as opposed to a vehicle with two headlights.

/just sayin'


go a step further
I am pretty CERTAIN, that the person entering an intersection MUST yield to a car already in the intersection. period.

motorcycle T-BONE the car ....
cop was at fault for entering the intersection

here is yet another interesting missing fact
HOW much of a skid mark was there from the motorcycle attempting to break? none? lots? we scrubbed the road so there is no evidence anymore??
 
2013-03-16 06:24:28 PM  
"Chan's blood-alcohol content was .13, nearly twice the legal limit of .08"

Cop/Prosecutor math?? How is 13 nearly double of 8?  Apparently, 62.5% = 100% when someone wants to place the blame on a civilian for causing the cop to drink and speed.
 
2013-03-16 06:24:45 PM  
Dunno if it has been mentioned, but even if 22MPH is an excessive speed after a full stop, if you saw a motorcycle blazing towards you, don't you think you'd speed up?
 
2013-03-16 06:26:55 PM  

Musikslayer: "Chan's blood-alcohol content was .13, nearly twice the legal limit of .08"

Cop/Prosecutor math?? How is 13 nearly double of 8?  Apparently, 62.5% = 100% when someone wants to place the blame on a civilian for causing the cop to drink and speed.


Hah. I bet the cop was at just barely halfway over the legal limit as well.
 
2013-03-16 06:33:06 PM  

namatad: kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.

add to it ... that the driver who stopped, SAW the motorcycle in the far distance and had plenty of time to cross the road. ONLY because the motorcycle was speeding was this not true.

you could easily do the math to compute distances based on known speed of the motorcycle
but I am so lazy right now ....

DAMN IT
typical 2 lane intersection is ~ 20ft, add in 10ft for curbs and what not
30ft width

22 mph = 32 ft/sec
so double that for acceleration from a full stop
cross traffic was in the intersection for 1-2 seconds, depending on full stop, rolling stop, no stop

75mph = 110 ft/sec
at that speed the motorcycle covered 100ft ever second.

so you stop ... you look, you see the guy 100+ ft away, you proceed through the intersection.
instead of it taking him 3-5 seconds to get to the intersection and completely miss you, he t-bones you.

PLUS, every rational driver slows down while approaching an intersection. right?
give this basic physics, cop was 100% at fault.

the intersection would have been COMPLETELY clear if the cop had not been speeding.
/kill the cop ... wait he is dead already and they are trying to blame the innocent guy??? F'EM


We assume it was a Hardly-Ableson, so the arcane question of "stopping" does not factor in the same way (linky blinky, so DNRTFA).

Those obsolete agricultural implements are overweight, poorly suspended behemoths with feeble brakes. If the cop had been on an R-1 with steel brake lines and racing tires, well, he might still have stopped or maybe still dead from the precipitous halt - but he would have died with more panache...
 
2013-03-16 06:38:13 PM  

thenateman: If Florida had a sane helmet law, the cop would be back on the force and the other driver would be in prison where he belongs.


A helmet probably isn't going to help a lot if you're going 75 MPH on a motorcycle and hit something relatively stationary.
 
2013-03-16 06:45:38 PM  
I call for NFL rules on this, since no other people were involved in the accident and both drivers were drunk and shouldn't even been on road, I say both fouls cancel each other out.  Charge each for with DWI and move one.  Take the fines out of the dead cop's estate.  Neither will be held accountable for the other.

/I move on now
 
2013-03-16 06:52:07 PM  
Google some of the older articles about this crash, they'll all have this description:

"An off-duty Lowell police officer was struck and killed by an alleged drunk driver early yesterday morning, officials said. Sergeant Patrick Johnson, 31, of Lowell, a six-year veteran of the department, was riding his motorcycle at Princeton Boulevard and Foster Street in Lowell around 12:30 a.m. when he was struck by another vehicle. "

The initial reports always describe the car hitting the motorcycle and not the other way around.

The earlier articles also state that the officer's wife was driving behind him in a car and witnessed the accident.
 
2013-03-16 06:52:09 PM  

Dictatorial_Flair: thenateman: If Florida had a sane helmet law, the cop would be back on the force and the other driver would be in prison where he belongs.

A helmet probably isn't going to help a lot if you're going 75 MPH on a motorcycle and hit something relatively stationary.


Anyone who has ever taken a motorcycle saftey class knows that any collision over 35, with or without a helmet, and you are more then likely dead.
 
2013-03-16 06:53:57 PM  

Chagrin: The earlier articles also state that the officer's wife was driving behind him in a car and witnessed the accident.


I assume the dept. is hot on the task of charging her for also driving 75 in a 30?
 
2013-03-16 07:01:42 PM  

Chagrin: The earlier articles also state that the officer's wife was driving behind him in a car and witnessed the accident.


That kinda makes it sound like the cop and his wife were having a drunken tiff that they took on the road.
 
2013-03-16 07:05:26 PM  

que.guero: If you really want some outrage, Google the case of Bismarck Dinius in Clear Lake California. Or for convenience, here's a link --  http://justicefordinius.home.comcast.net/~justicefordinius/dinius/The _ Strange_Case_of_Bismarck_Dinius.html


I'm sorry, I'm still a nautical novice, but does't a sailboat always have right of way over any power boat?
 
2013-03-16 07:21:31 PM  
FTFA:While both men were allegedly legally drunk at the time of the crash, the Middlesex district attorney's office charged Chan with motor-vehicle homicide under the contributory-negligence law.

Contributory-negligence suggests his failure to stop contributed to the accident, which is true if he didn't stop, though the facts on that still seem unable to be determined, and if they cannot be made fact, ("All the facts and circumstances of this collision are not known. ..." ) then I'm not sure how a jury could properly find a guilty verdict.

However, nothing is saying the idiot cop on the bike wasn't at fault, the case being discussed in the article is just saying there wasn't a 100% at fault party.  The smaller a vehicle is, the further away it will usually appear than it is, already lessening the actual time to intersection than the average person would expect... now, have that vehicle going 75 instead of 30 (or even 40 if someone's doing the standard 10 over) and whatever your perception was, is only a fraction of the actual time.
 
2013-03-16 07:28:02 PM  

SploogeTime: The cop died? It's a win-win!


That comment, when coupled with your user name...
 
2013-03-16 07:39:25 PM  
It's not like they can charge a dead guy.
 
2013-03-16 07:43:18 PM  

Ambivalence: It's not like they can would charge a dead guy cop.

 
2013-03-16 07:49:46 PM  
Well, someone has to go to jail for this and it's not going to be a cop.  Particularly not a dead cop.  So, you do the maths.
 
2013-03-16 08:05:04 PM  
Cop's kids need to go to college. Guy's insurance co, needs to pay for that.  Can't you guys see that?  It's for the children.
 
2013-03-16 08:18:04 PM  
At least the cop died doing what he loved.
 
2013-03-16 08:24:26 PM  

Hrist: someone going 75mph in a 45mph zone might very well be missed by someone that legally stopped and looked both ways.


This

It'd be next to impossible to judge the speed of a motorcycle at midnight let alone one doing 75 mph.  The motorcycle could have been in a blind spot or a block over when the guy started through the intersection.  What does the intersection look like?  Could you even see 100 feet down the road when stopped behind the line at the intersection?

I don't think a driver should have to account for someone doing more than double the posted speed limit when moving through an intersection.
 
2013-03-16 08:32:23 PM  

vpb: unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

75 in a 30 had nothing to do with it

No.  It isn't a matter of who was going faster or who was drunker, it's a matter of who caused the accident.
The case was all about whether the guy in the Honda ran the stop sign or not.  The speed of the guy on the motorcycle has nothing to do with that.


By the logic of "the speed of the guy on the motorcyle has nothing to do with that", I present the following scenario: you are driving your car, totally sober, and come to a full stop at a stop sign, look and see that it appears clear to proceed because the nearest car is over two blocks away,  You enter the intersection and are T-boned by that car, driven by a drunk driver, driving over 100mph on a city street.  He dies.  You are guilty of manslaughter because of your failure to realize that his car was travelling so fast??

Yes, it was a matter of who caused the accident.  In this case, there is definitely shared blame.  Neither driver is 100% at fault.  If both had survived, I would expect both of them to be charged with impaired driving causing injury.
 
2013-03-16 08:50:01 PM  
0.173? That wouldn't even stop the withdrawal symptoms for me.
 
2013-03-16 08:52:18 PM  
It is important to realize there were no witnesses (Besides Chan).  The investigators only posit (based on contested and conflicting measures) that Chan didnt stop.  A necessary step in avoiding blame for the person traveling more than twice the speed limit (not contested).

If this had been two civilians the with the same set of circumstances, the person speeding would have been held responsible unquestionably.

With the deck stacked so overwhelmingly in favor of LEO's there should be no wonder why people are getting disgruntled with the obvious favorable judicial double standard.
 
2013-03-16 09:23:31 PM  
After thinking about it, I completely agree that the officers's death was no one's fault, but his own.  Had he been travelling 116 MPH instead of 75, this whole thing could have been avoided.
 
2013-03-16 09:27:38 PM  
Vehicular manslaughter is overkill.
Chan did appear to cause the accident, but the cop's speed is what killed him.
 
2013-03-16 09:36:14 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Roderick estimated Johnson [the cop] was going 75 mph as he sped through the intersection, while Chan [the non-cop], who says he stopped at the stop sign before going through the intersection, was traveling 22 mph.

While both men were allegedly legally drunk at the time of the crash, the Middlesex district attorney's office charged Chan with motor-vehicle homicide under the contributory-negligence law.
 

Yeah.  And the cop-suckers here wonder why people want nothing to do with cops, and call on them only out of desperation.


Actually I will only call them out of obligation.  Even I have family who were Law Enforcement, and I know a few officers and I will still call them because I am obligated to do so (report an accident, etc.)  I will do my best to not "require their assistance" otherwise though.
 
2013-03-16 10:11:20 PM  
The question should be who was drunk or drunker but who violated the established rules of right of way.

A little searching finds that it was at foster st & Princeton Boulevard in Lowell, MA. From google street view only Foster has stop signs. Visibility down Princeton from the stop line in either direction isn't good enough to pick up a motorcycle traveling at 75mph at night IMO. In the day nosing out to get a good look, yes.  Look for yourselves, it's just two residential streets with Princeton being the major street. 

They are trying to guess the speed of the accused's car. 22mph at the far side of the intersection is not unreasonable for healthy rate of acceleration, but where did this 22mph figure come from? It has to be some weird cop math because there isn't a way I am aware of to determine it. They could figure out the motorcycle's speed from skid marks, impact damage, and such, but the honda's speed leaves no evidence to determine it with any confidence level of value. Probably 22mph +/- 10mph or something like that. 

The Honda driver says he stopped. There is no evidence otherwise besides some bizarro math a cop came up with.

So let's say this was two sober non-cops. What happens? Even though the Honda driver should have yielded to traffic on Princeton, the dead motorcyclist going a provable 75mph is held at fault because it is considered to be unreasonable to pick up traffic going two and half times the posted speed limit on a residential street.  especially a motorcycle (small) at night (less visibility).

Except it wasn't two sober people it was a mundane with a BAC level greater than the arbitrary value of 0.08 and a cop with a BAC level greater than that same value. So people start changing reality to fit their belief system. Thus the Honda driver is going to prison.
 
2013-03-16 10:30:12 PM  

This Face Left Blank: 75mph in a 30mph zone?  I've NEVER been so drunk that I would find that to be a good idea.  Never.  Getting on a motorcycle while well over the legal limit is another lapse in judgement.  75 in a 30 WHILE drunk on a motorcycle?  Holy shiat.  Both drivers are at fault: they were drunk and they ignored traffic laws.  The real controversy here is how that cop got to be on the force with judgement like that.


It's judgement like that that made him such a great cop! Poor impulse control with no respect for the law? Are you kidding me? He was probably a captain!
 
2013-03-16 10:32:43 PM  

leadmetal: The question should be who was drunk or drunker but who violated the established rules of right of way.

A little searching finds that it was at foster st & Princeton Boulevard in Lowell, MA. From google street view only Foster has stop signs. Visibility down Princeton from the stop line in either direction isn't good enough to pick up a motorcycle traveling at 75mph at night IMO. In the day nosing out to get a good look, yes.  Look for yourselves, it's just two residential streets with Princeton being the major street. 

They are trying to guess the speed of the accused's car. 22mph at the far side of the intersection is not unreasonable for healthy rate of acceleration, but where did this 22mph figure come from? It has to be some weird cop math because there isn't a way I am aware of to determine it. They could figure out the motorcycle's speed from skid marks, impact damage, and such, but the honda's speed leaves no evidence to determine it with any confidence level of value. Probably 22mph +/- 10mph or something like that. 

The Honda driver says he stopped. There is no evidence otherwise besides some bizarro math a cop came up with.

So let's say this was two sober non-cops. What happens? Even though the Honda driver should have yielded to traffic on Princeton, the dead motorcyclist going a provable 75mph is held at fault because it is considered to be unreasonable to pick up traffic going two and half times the posted speed limit on a residential street.  especially a motorcycle (small) at night (less visibility).

Except it wasn't two sober people it was a mundane with a BAC level greater than the arbitrary value of 0.08 and a cop with a BAC level greater than that same value. So people start changing reality to fit their belief system. Thus the Honda driver is going to prison.


For some reason I read that in Sheldon Coopers voice....
 
2013-03-16 11:37:12 PM  
Also, have you considered the possibility that they're racist?

Looks like a collision between Officer Patrick Johnson and Mister Theary Chan.

The article has a photo of Mr. Chan.  Asian, all right, even caught in a goofy expression.

Anybody want to take bets on whether Officer Johnson was white, black, or otherwise?

For those of you who chose "White", step up and collect your winnings:  there's a photo of HIM on a memorial page dedicated to him.  Go ahead and Google the name and find it yourselves, no linky from me today.
 
2013-03-17 12:02:37 AM  
Chagrin: Google some of the older articles about this crash, they'll all have this description:
 
"An off-duty Lowell police officer was struck and killed by an alleged drunk driver early yesterday morning, officials said. Sergeant Patrick Johnson, 31, of Lowell, a six-year veteran of the department, was riding his motorcycle at Princeton Boulevard and Foster Street in Lowell around 12:30 a.m. when he was struck by another vehicle. "

The initial reports always describe the car hitting the motorcycle and not the other way around.

The earlier articles also state that the officer's wife was driving behind him in a car and witnessed the accident.


That is because the early articles would be based almost exclusively on the police report and the police report would favor the police officer.
 
2013-03-17 12:13:13 AM  

GoldDude: Yes, it was a matter of who caused the accident. In this case, there is definitely shared blame. Neither driver is 100% at fault. If both had survived, I would expect both of them to be charged with impaired driving causing injury.


I don't think it's shared at all. 75 mph in a 25 mph zone is reckless driving.  At that point it shouldn't matter what you hit, it's your fault. In particular if the cop had been going the speed limit he very likely would have walked away with minor injuries. So in this case, the cop put himself in mortal danger.
 
2013-03-17 12:37:17 AM  

cmunic8r99: jaylectricity: cmunic8r99: I you're going to get on a motorcycle drunk, you are trying to activate your organ donor card. They should have charged the civilian under whatever assisted suicide laws they have.

Why don't you tell that cute story about your mom, the nurse and that cute name they invented for motorcycles?

Sure. They called it a, "What the hell are you talking about?"


Haha, well, I'll tell you because you've been around awhile. Some time a few years ago somebody rambled on about a story of them being a nurse or something and they were in the ER and a victim of a motorcycle crash came in and it was a long and drawn out story only for the "punch line" to be, "In here, we call them donorcycles."

But at that time, the term donorcycles had been coined for many years and the person telling the story made us read paragraphs upon paragraphs to get to the punch line. And it did not go unnoticed. Somebody pointed out that they had not, in fact, invented the term donorcycle.

Or something like that. My joke was not at your expense.
 
2013-03-17 01:02:48 AM  

kingoomieiii: Drunk cop doing 75 on a motorcycle HITS drunk civilian doing 22 in a car. Civilian still tied up in court a year later.


Ding ding ding!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taman_Inquiry
 
2013-03-17 01:34:53 AM  
 
2013-03-17 02:48:20 AM  
He was drunk and he rolled the stop sign and sped up as soon as he did. Everyone rolls stops, but only asshats with a death wish slam the gas as soon as they do. And it's pretty likely a guy rocketing drunk down a small road at 2 am on a Harley is long for this world.

It's a great example of two people who should be dead, and it's impossible to feel sorry for either. Guess the other guy had a 1-UP in his pocket, too bad he's going to spend his entire extra life in jail.
 
2013-03-17 03:05:46 AM  

leadmetal: The Honda driver says he stopped. There is no evidence otherwise besides some bizarro math a cop came up with.


It'd be based on how far the vehicle traveled from the point of the crash, assuming the usual half-second reaction time and slammed brakes, since at that speed there probably wouldn't even be skid marks. (Funny thing about even heavy drinking is that it actually doesn't slow braking reaction time much, it just makes you more reckless.)
 
2013-03-17 06:18:04 AM  

vpb: unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

75 in a 30 had nothing to do with it

No.  It isn't a matter of who was going faster or who was drunker, it's a matter of who caused the accident.
The case was all about whether the guy in the Honda ran the stop sign or not.  The speed of the guy on the motorcycle has nothing to do with that.


Yes it does.  One reason that motorcycles going recklessly fast get in crashes is because due to their speed, cagers are less likely to see them in time to avoid them.

Even if the cager is sober and a bike is at a safe speed, it's all to common for a cager to pull out in front of a bike because "I didn't see you coming."
 
2013-03-17 07:42:28 AM  

GBB: Followup question: Is it possible for 2 independent parties to be 100% at fault for the same incident?


That's what we lawyers call a tragedy :)
 
2013-03-17 07:45:44 AM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: vpb: unlikely: vpb: It isn't automatically the fault of whoever has the highest BAC regardless of circumstances.

75 in a 30 had nothing to do with it

No.  It isn't a matter of who was going faster or who was drunker, it's a matter of who caused the accident.
The case was all about whether the guy in the Honda ran the stop sign or not.  The speed of the guy on the motorcycle has nothing to do with that.

Yes it does.  One reason that motorcycles going recklessly fast get in crashes is because due to their speed, cagers are less likely to see them in time to avoid them.

Even if the cager is sober and a bike is at a safe speed, it's all to common for a cager to pull out in front of a bike because "I didn't see you coming."


Yep.  Worked in an ER for awhile, and bikers would regularly get brought in, having had Mom in her minivan merge right on top them in broad daylight.
 
2013-03-17 07:49:53 AM  

Semantic Warrior: que.guero: If you really want some outrage, Google the case of Bismarck Dinius in Clear Lake California. Or for convenience, here's a link --  http://justicefordinius.home.comcast.net/~justicefordinius/dinius/The _ Strange_Case_of_Bismarck_Dinius.html

I'm sorry, I'm still a nautical novice, but does't a sailboat always have right of way over any power boat?


Usually, but not always...vessel under tow, fishing boat with deployed gear, and ferry on scheduled route come to mind.

Plus, there's the "highest tonnage wins all collisions" unwritten rule...
 
2013-03-17 09:48:06 AM  

que.guero: If you really want some outrage, Google the case of Bismarck Dinius in Clear Lake California. Or for convenience, here's a link --  http://justicefordinius.home.comcast.net/~justicefordinius/dinius/The _ Strange_Case_of_Bismarck_Dinius.html


*shrug* Dont drive a boat drunk... and next time blame the dead person.
 
2013-03-17 12:04:22 PM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Yes it does.  One reason that motorcycles going recklessly fast get in crashes is because due to their speed, cagers are less likely to see them in time to avoid them.

Even if the cager is sober and a bike is at a safe speed, it's all to common for a cager to pull out in front of a bike because "I didn't see you coming."


Sorry, but you lost any credibliity when you started using the term "cager".

Maybe if bikers didn't do stupid shiat like go 75 in a 30 or split lanes or weave in and out like maniacs they wouldn't die so often.
 
2013-03-17 01:14:22 PM  
Reading this on St. Patrick's Day couldn't be more appropriate.
 
2013-03-17 01:31:09 PM  

namatad: PunGent: Couple folks in this thread with their GEDs in law need to brush up on contributory negligence.

doesn not equal 100% fault


Nor does it equal ZERO percent fault, which is how some people are defending the cop here.

I'm not a knee-jerk cop-basher by any means...but riding your motorcycle at x2 the legal limit is dumb even if you're sober.
 
2013-03-17 01:43:23 PM  

SpeedyBB: namatad: kingoomieiii: One more response- the motorcycle who hit him at 75 MPH was going so fast that it is A COMPLETELY REASONABLE SCENARIO that the guy stopped at the sign and looked both ways, saw the motorcycle very far away, misjudged its speed due to perspective, and though it was safe to enter the road.

add to it ... that the driver who stopped, SAW the motorcycle in the far distance and had plenty of time to cross the road. ONLY because the motorcycle was speeding was this not true.

you could easily do the math to compute distances based on known speed of the motorcycle
but I am so lazy right now ....

DAMN IT
typical 2 lane intersection is ~ 20ft, add in 10ft for curbs and what not
30ft width

22 mph = 32 ft/sec
so double that for acceleration from a full stop
cross traffic was in the intersection for 1-2 seconds, depending on full stop, rolling stop, no stop

75mph = 110 ft/sec
at that speed the motorcycle covered 100ft ever second.

so you stop ... you look, you see the guy 100+ ft away, you proceed through the intersection.
instead of it taking him 3-5 seconds to get to the intersection and completely miss you, he t-bones you.

PLUS, every rational driver slows down while approaching an intersection. right?
give this basic physics, cop was 100% at fault.

the intersection would have been COMPLETELY clear if the cop had not been speeding.
/kill the cop ... wait he is dead already and they are trying to blame the innocent guy??? F'EM

We assume it was a Hardly-Ableson, so the arcane question of "stopping" does not factor in the same way (linky blinky, so DNRTFA).

Those obsolete agricultural implements are overweight, poorly suspended behemoths with feeble brakes. If the cop had been on an R-1 with steel brake lines and racing tires, well, he might still have stopped or maybe still dead from the precipitous halt - but he would have died with more panache...


Yeah, but he'd look like even more of a douche,
 
2013-03-17 05:06:41 PM  
Just gonna leave this here. Can you find the motorcycle?
 
2013-03-18 02:44:08 AM  

Happy Hours: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Yes it does.  One reason that motorcycles going recklessly fast get in crashes is because due to their speed, cagers are less likely to see them in time to avoid them.

Even if the cager is sober and a bike is at a safe speed, it's all to common for a cager to pull out in front of a bike because "I didn't see you coming."

Sorry, but you lost any credibliity when you started using the term "cager".

Maybe if bikers didn't do stupid shiat like go 75 in a 30 or split lanes or weave in and out like maniacs they wouldn't die so often.


riders who ride like that are a minority among motorcyclists and are looked down on because they make the rest of us look bad.
 
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