Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Sun)   R.I.P. and sleep tight Lance Corporal James Ashworth, for you are now in the canyon of heroes   (thesun.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Hero, Lance Corporal James Ashworth, Victoria Cross, Battalion Grenadier Guards, R.I.P., Kettering, Northants, Grenadier Guards, Brit Awards  
•       •       •

13196 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2013 at 12:23 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



70 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2013-03-16 04:43:17 PM  
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
 
2013-03-16 05:18:57 PM  

omeganuepsilon: deadsanta: It's all absurd, but I don't think it has any bearing on whether an individual soldier should receive a medal of valor, since that's just predicated on individual acts of bravery, not foreign policy considerations.

That's a great way to put it.  Individual valor is just that, a judgement of the individuals actions in that situation.

Modern politics that caused the situation to occur are irrelevant mostly.  Sure, if you fought for the south and the right to keep slaves, there's an argument to be made there, but the modern soldier is pretty much kept out of the loop, so to speak.  They sign up to serve and protect, and leave the thinking and decision making up to others.

Maybe that makes them brainless jarheads, a tool in both senses of the word, but without soldiers backing government the world would be a very different and tyranical place where the strong are all powerful.

Thankfully we are social creatures for the most part and do sense a need to more or less get along, and to stop confrontation when possible, or when needed to defend ourselves and weaker members of our species from aggressors.

Now, that returns us to the people we've elected making decisions on behalf of us all, and all the dirty and shady reasons that go with that.  The soldier is not to blame, the leader is.

If people were more active in a political nature, some of that dirtiness would go away.  The reason those shady people manage to gain power is because the people let them.  In a sense, griping about a soldier in a war a person doesn't agree with, is projecting his own personal fault.

That is the root of the problem.  Sure, the leaders are to blame, but what allowed them to become leaders?  We did.  The theory behind our western society is that our leaders are supposed to represent the populace, AND to be regulated by the populace.

The populace has lost sight of much of that.  We're too busy with Fark, WoW, Angry birds to do anything about it.  sure, we may make an angry comment in the two minutes of the day that we use to think about such things, but other than that, we really don't care.

When democracy(as such, the term is used loosely) fails, it is only the fault of the people.  Sure, the political leader may be a bad guy, but we expressly allow it when we ignore what he does.

When people project that fault such as the troll(poe's law of course) is doing in this thread, they do so on the wrong party(twice removed even) and only worsen the situation.  It's akin to spreading misinformation, intent or no, that's the result.

It's the result of religious like thinking.  Faith that our leadership is omniscient, so they stay out of it.  These trolls/zealots take that to an extreme.  Misplaced faith in a patron like system that does not exist.  Our government does not exist to protect us, it exists to serve us.  if we are not vocal in our needs and desires, the system fails. We, as a populace, are to blame.


Very. very well said.
 
2013-03-16 05:38:26 PM  

ghare: tonguedepressor: ghare: Suede head: When you're lying half-dead on Afghanistan's plains
and the women come out to cut up what remains
just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
and go to your God like a soldier
soldier of the Queen

Ahh, Kipling. Feels like coming home.

You like Kipling?

How can you not?


He does make exceedingly good cakes.
 
2013-03-16 05:55:38 PM  

DrPainMD: People who participate in wars of aggression are not heroes. If you travel half-way around the world to fight people who are standing in their own front yards trying to defend their homes and their families, you're just a Nazi in a different uniform. Rot in hell, Ashworth.

 
2013-03-16 07:11:13 PM  
and...

Soldiers are paid to die in wars. (all wars are pointless so don't throw that argument this way)

They are volunteers, and get paid for a job whose downside is "they might die". We wouldn't pay them to sit on their asses and do nothing now would we.

I still have no idea why parents etc come forward going "the government killed my boy", no mother dear your boy joined up on his own free will to be a meat shield for his country and boy did he succeed. Go mourn without making a song and dance.

Well done to the heroes, but lets face it... if they call you a "hero" then you're pretty much dead (inside or period).
 
2013-03-16 07:12:53 PM  

randomjsa: DrPainMD: People who participate in wars of aggression are not heroes. If you travel half-way around the world to fight people who are standing in their own front yards trying to defend their homes and their families, you're just a Nazi in a different uniform. Rot in hell, Ashworth.

Your shoulders and back would probably hurt a lot less if you pulled your head out of your arse.

deadsanta: They aided and hid those people based on thousand years-old traditions of guest-rights and hospitality, which if we'd taken half a minute to understand, we could have circumvented through diplomacy, bribery and our own outreach. But we didn't, we just told the innkeeper he and his family were evil and we'd be killing them all now.

The same goes for you. Your attempt to follow up and sound intellectual in another post is noted and by the way all those lovely websites that told you what you wanted to hear might just have had an agenda behind it so the idea that you're holding them up as some unassailable fortress of unbiased truth is really quite amusing. I'm guessing that all the contradictory information out there that flies in the fact of some the things you believe must all be wrong or some kind of grand conspiracy.

The primary base of operate for Al Queda was Afghanistan. Irregardless


I stopped reading right here.
 
2013-03-16 07:28:38 PM  

ukexpat: Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.


No. No it is not
 
2013-03-16 07:32:48 PM  

deplorable: They are volunteers, and get paid for a job whose downside is "they might die". We wouldn't pay them to sit on their asses and do nothing now would we.


Civilian like typing detected.

Volunteers that get paid poorly, at least in the first several years.

You make it sound like the only downside is the danger.  Typically, even in peace time, the military is hard working, that is where the pay is earned.

If they are not in a warzone, they're still in danger, but that's what it takes to get an additional stipend for it.

That is not the only sacrifice that's made either.  Your entire way of life falls under review to include grooming habits and health standards, how well your lawn is manicured(if you're in base housing) who you can and cannot have sex, or even just go out drinking with.  You don't have the freedom to travel nor even go to disreputable bars/clubs if the leadership deems them inappropriate.  You can't even quit your job like a normal civilian, in fact, odds are pretty good you don't even get to choose what work you will be doing.  You are, for all intents and purposes, a tool to be utilized.

In my book, even if a person doesn't serve in a war, but they've honorably served, they're a type of hero.

No different than any other sort of volunteer, be it firefighter or police force or soup kitchen worker.

deplorable: (all wars are pointless so don't throw that argument this way)


I'm sure freed slaves and such would agree with you.

War is but politics fought in a different manner.  Some war's have been arguably pointless, sure.  But ALL of them?
Talk about broadcasting your ignorance...
 
2013-03-16 07:41:33 PM  

DrPainMD: People who participate in wars of aggression are not heroes. If you travel half-way around the world to fight people who are standing in their own front yards trying to defend their homes and their families, you're just a Nazi in a different uniform. Rot in hell, Ashworth.


Too soon?
 
2013-03-16 08:09:37 PM  
And since some of us have gone Kipling . . .

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
 
2013-03-16 08:15:28 PM  
How is dying during combat considered bravery? The article didn't mention a single thing he did to earn that medal.
 
2013-03-16 10:02:22 PM  
I don't remember asking to be "guarded".
 
2013-03-16 11:24:39 PM  

spacelord321: I don't remember asking to be "guarded".


www.cia.gov

Your paradise awaits!
 
2013-03-16 11:35:48 PM  
Lance Corporal James Ashworth could have been a douche bag.  He could have cheated on his wife, set fire to Korans and pissed on the "Union Jack".  We will never know.  But what we do know is The Sun is full of infinite fail.  Why?  Go ask a Liverpool fan about the Sun.

While this may be a surprise to some..military members, active or non, can be ass holes.  No really, they can.  Heroes, well -- no one should want to be a hero.  The best Vets are the quiet ones.  The ones who pressed-on cause they did what they had to do.
 
2013-03-17 01:19:37 AM  

tonguedepressor: Here ya go  DrPainMd. maybe someone will jump on it for ya..

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 283x400]


I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. In fact, I wouldn't piss on his kids if they were burning to death before his eyes and he was begging for help.
 
2013-03-17 01:19:45 AM  
Try harder maxx.
 
2013-03-17 02:17:25 AM  
omeganuepsilon:  "Sure, if you fought for the south and the right to keep slaves"
The War of Northern Aggression was not fought over slavery.  It was fought to prevent the very type of abuse of power that the current regime is exercising.  Try reading up on what the South was actually upset about in the 1850's.
 
2013-03-17 07:38:14 AM  
Rot in hell yourself, DrPainMD.

I suppose you support North Korea's current game plan as well.
 
2013-03-17 07:51:04 AM  

Suede head: PC LOAD LETTER: I thought the Canyon of Heroes was the term used when people are given parades up Broadway from the Battery.

Is... is that a euphemism?


Hero
 
2013-03-17 12:35:00 PM  

ShivaHVishnu: omeganuepsilon:  "Sure, if you fought for the south and the right to keep slaves"
The War of Northern Aggression was not fought over slavery.  It was fought to prevent the very type of abuse of power that the current regime is exercising.  Try reading up on what the South was actually upset about in the 1850's.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaves_and_the_American_Civil_War
The American Civil War (1861-1865) started as a war to prevent the literal segregation of the North and South, but it soon became a fight of the eradication of the institution of slavery.

Also:
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.h tm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War

The very first sentence.  War tends to not be about one specific thing, but a variety.  Slavery was a leading social issue at the time, and was greatly impacted by the result of the war.

Of course, maybe you'd deny the holocaust as well and I'm posting to a brick wall.
 
Displayed 20 of 70 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report