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(Guardian)   Aston Villa take on QPR in a relegation critical match whilst MUFC will win at a canter against Reading and Everton seek to regain momentum against Man City - it's your weekend EPL thread   (guardian.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Egyptian Premier League, Man Utd, Man City, QPR, Premier League, Harry Redknapp, missions, David Moyes  
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336 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 Mar 2013 at 5:30 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-16 10:15:05 PM  

ADubs86: I woke up today wanting Liverpool, Seattle Sounders, and Louisville to win. I'll take two of those three.


Looks like I'm going 0 for 3 today. Great day.
/I laugh to keep myself from crying
 
2013-03-16 10:58:26 PM  

ADubs86: ADubs86: I woke up today wanting Liverpool, Seattle Sounders, and Louisville to win. I'll take two of those three.

Looks like I'm going 0 for 3 today. Great day.
/I laugh to keep myself from crying


Well, 1 of three ain't bad. Technically I went 1-1-1.
/Big East Champs!
 
2013-03-17 12:04:07 AM  
I am starting to love Wallace as an attacker...so much better than as a defender.
 
2013-03-17 05:28:33 AM  

tom servo bit me: midpoint: tom servo bit me: midpoint: FFPL scores up.

This game sucks.  Fark you, Liverpool

I sense it has been an emotional roller-coaster for you Tom?

Just a one-step-forward, two-steps-back experience for me with the predos.  I gotta get off the damn second page.


It is quite an exclusive club these days.
 
2013-03-17 05:36:11 AM  
Every FFPL Spurs supporter* lost points yesterday. All Toon supporters scored 0**. All MUFC supporters scored 0 or more. All Oxford Utd players scored +75. Best Liverpool score was 0.

* Discounting HawaiiE, who opted out two months ago it seems.
** Obamartins 0 included a broken banker. Such a shame [sincere face].
 
2013-03-17 08:26:36 AM  

ADubs86: EJ!
I'm hoping that EJ + Oba = Goals a plenty.


I love that my namesake is now in the mls. So excited to finally get to see him play live when he comes to Philly in may.
 
2013-03-17 08:28:17 AM  

midpoint: Every FFPL Spurs supporter* lost points yesterday. All Toon supporters scored 0**. All MUFC supporters scored 0 or more. All Oxford Utd players scored +75. Best Liverpool score was 0.

* Discounting HawaiiE, who opted out two months ago it seems.
** Obamartins 0 included a broken banker. Such a shame [sincere face].


Damn Liverpool. But that's what I get for refusing to put my banker on a X2 game.
 
2013-03-17 09:17:34 AM  
I thought the UK daylight savings time kicked in today. Shouldn't we have a game in progress? My fantasy site says otherwise
 
2013-03-17 09:19:19 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: I thought the UK daylight savings time kicked in today. Shouldn't we have a game in progress? My fantasy site says otherwise


I'm off by 2 weeks I see. Carry on
 
2013-03-17 09:40:33 AM  
Serious question because I know this thread is full of people who are knowledgeable about soccer: is the league of MLS better than the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, or any of the other European leagues? BEFORE YOU ANSWER: I know the level of play is better in the EPL, and EPL teams would beat MLS teams, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if the league is better administered, in terms of maintaining competitive balance, resistance to corruption, prevalence of diving, etc. I ask because whenever I read an ESPN or SI piece about European soccer, they're always talking about the exact same clubs winning, or about match fixing, or controversial reds. I was wondering if that was just US bias or if soccer is really all kinds of messed up in other countries.
 
2013-03-17 09:57:27 AM  
Wow, get drunk, forget to make Saturday picks, end up @ +5 with a higher score than half the league. I'll take it. Oh, and COYW!
 
2013-03-17 09:59:09 AM  

Palmer Eldritch: Serious question because I know this thread is full of people who are knowledgeable about soccer: is the league of MLS better than the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, or any of the other European leagues? BEFORE YOU ANSWER: I know the level of play is better in the EPL, and EPL teams would beat MLS teams, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if the league is better administered, in terms of maintaining competitive balance, resistance to corruption, prevalence of diving, etc. I ask because whenever I read an ESPN or SI piece about European soccer, they're always talking about the exact same clubs winning, or about match fixing, or controversial reds. I was wondering if that was just US bias or if soccer is really all kinds of messed up in other countries.



Thats the $10,000 question.

I can't say anything about MLS as i haven't watched any teams from it.

EPL vs Serie A. Serie A teams tend to be better at the technical skills and tactically but are very risk averse so tend to be very defensive and walk the tightrope of fouls. EPL teams tend to be much more fluid and attacking but may lack a little tactically. As for off the field it is the most corrupt of the big leagues in Europe with notable match fixing and bribing scandals and the worst crowd issues with the "Ultras". Stabbings are common (but mostly aimed at hurting and not killing). Financially both are as stable as each other.

EPL vs La Liga: The two big teams in La Liga are just a little bit better than the top of the EPL, mostly due to being able to outspend them. La Liga tends to be less competitive than the EPL after the top two with more "rabbit" teams who are beaten by everyone. Financially EPL teams are not very solvent by its much worse in La Liga. The Spanish tax man is owed somewhere in the region of €200,000 per team.
 
2013-03-17 10:01:05 AM  
Damn, Bunn sent off with a red. Canaries down to 10.
 
2013-03-17 10:03:43 AM  
The short answer is that Football is no more messed up than Baseball, Bascketball, American Football or say Ice Hockey but its messed up in different ways.

For example Football doesn't have the issues with labour disputes so no strikes or lockouts; nor does it have the big issues with off the field player problems with crimes or PEDs.

But it does have its own set of issues with finances, match fixing and crowd troubles.
 
2013-03-17 10:04:29 AM  
Why do i get the feeling that if that was the home keeper it wouldn't of been a red.

Come one you Yellows!
 
2013-03-17 10:05:31 AM  

Palmer Eldritch: Serious question because I know this thread is full of people who are knowledgeable about soccer: is the league of MLS better than the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, or any of the other European leagues? BEFORE YOU ANSWER: I know the level of play is better in the EPL, and EPL teams would beat MLS teams, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if the league is better administered, in terms of maintaining competitive balance, resistance to corruption, prevalence of diving, etc. I ask because whenever I read an ESPN or SI piece about European soccer, they're always talking about the exact same clubs winning, or about match fixing, or controversial reds. I was wondering if that was just US bias or if soccer is really all kinds of messed up in other countries.



Well,
MLS certainly has a more collectivist framework in place wrt revenue sharing and new young talent. My instinctive response is that it would be one of the most corruption free leagues in the world because of the relative lack of money and the strong legal frameworks of the US underneath.
Ironically, the more collectively inclined Euro cultures run their leagues along pretty cut-throat/free-market principles. Stealing of young players from smaller teams, ruthlessness wrt revenue etc
MLS teams are franchises with (at the minute) little to no cultural or social or political significance. In other countries the opposite is the case - Tottenham and Jews, Celtic and the Irish, Roma and fascists, Real Madrid and Franco, the number of East European teams with connections to  Soviet regimes etc. Their roots run deeeeeep.
Italian football has had a lot of issues with match fixing. Spanish football has a lot of local govt interference.
In respect of referee decisions - most of the complaints come from TV pundits required to shout and fill time. Many of them have a poor grasp of the rules, as do a remarkable number of fans. I'm a fan of referees - generally decent men doing the best they can.
You have to remember, the bigger clubs in each Euro league are the biggest sports-brands in the world, and every step they take causes tremors in society, business and of course the media.
MLS teams will get better. I'm not sure that quality improvement can be hot housed, rather it must come from organic growth.
 
2013-03-17 10:06:13 AM  

Palmer Eldritch: Serious question because I know this thread is full of people who are knowledgeable about soccer: is the league of MLS better than the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, or any of the other European leagues? BEFORE YOU ANSWER: I know the level of play is better in the EPL, and EPL teams would beat MLS teams, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if the league is better administered, in terms of maintaining competitive balance, resistance to corruption, prevalence of diving, etc. I ask because whenever I read an ESPN or SI piece about European soccer, they're always talking about the exact same clubs winning, or about match fixing, or controversial reds. I was wondering if that was just US bias or if soccer is really all kinds of messed up in other countries.


Separating your question into two parts, the first league administration:
MLS is set up and administered to try and create parity.  This starts with the salary structure but also with the rules on foreign players.  Having said that there are teams that seem to get some preferential treatment, NY and LA, for the better of the league.  Europe doesn't do this.  I believe that what Real Madrid pays in salary for its starting 11, would be enough to pay for about half the the other teams salaries in LA Liga, if not more.

MLS does have less corruption than other leagues around the globe.

League office takes actions to grow the sport as a whole, not just promote one team.

Field Play:
Diving - you get that in every league.  MLS is no different.
MLS is a far more physical league than many others.
Play level is one to two notches below top European leagues, though improving.  It is becoming a feeder league with some players doing quite well when joining top leagues in Europe.
MLS refs - Are freaking horrible.

So if you are asking if MLS is better run, I think yes.

If you are asking if MLS is a better league, I think no.   The level of play is getting better, but until it is a top league, the MLS is a just well run feeder league.
 
2013-03-17 10:08:20 AM  

Palmer Eldritch: Serious question because I know this thread is full of people who are knowledgeable about soccer: is the league of MLS better than the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, or any of the other European leagues? BEFORE YOU ANSWER: I know the level of play is better in the EPL, and EPL teams would beat MLS teams, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if the league is better administered, in terms of maintaining competitive balance, resistance to corruption, prevalence of diving, etc. I ask because whenever I read an ESPN or SI piece about European soccer, they're always talking about the exact same clubs winning, or about match fixing, or controversial reds. I was wondering if that was just US bias or if soccer is really all kinds of messed up in other countries.


Administration wise, yes, because the MLS is looking for countrywide stability. Unlike European leagues of today which have been around for a century or more, the MLS is just a little under 20 years old. It HAS to be stable because there is no room for error. Footy teams here (Pacific northwest excluded) don't have that kind of local pride established with them that comes with having a top-level team to support for generations, not to mention the complete lack of funding and promotion of lower level sides.
 
2013-03-17 10:08:55 AM  
Stan Collymore just staid the game was being  played at St James Park. I'd fear for his life, if I wouldn't mind him getting a sadistic beating or two.

Sounds like a quiet, dull game with no incident so far, ahem.
 
2013-03-17 10:09:39 AM  
Holy shiat! Norwich is taking it in the ass from the refs today. Yet one more reason to hate Sunderland, not that anyone needed one.
 
2013-03-17 10:09:49 AM  
Pretty good responses there Norfolking and midpoint.
 
2013-03-17 10:10:52 AM  

Norfolking Chance: Palmer Eldritch: Serious question because I know this thread is full of people who are knowledgeable about soccer: is the league of MLS better than the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, or any of the other European leagues? BEFORE YOU ANSWER: I know the level of play is better in the EPL, and EPL teams would beat MLS teams, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if the league is better administered, in terms of maintaining competitive balance, resistance to corruption, prevalence of diving, etc. I ask because whenever I read an ESPN or SI piece about European soccer, they're always talking about the exact same clubs winning, or about match fixing, or controversial reds. I was wondering if that was just US bias or if soccer is really all kinds of messed up in other countries.


Thats the $10,000 question.

I can't say anything about MLS as i haven't watched any teams from it.

EPL vs Serie A. Serie A teams tend to be better at the technical skills and tactically but are very risk averse so tend to be very defensive and walk the tightrope of fouls. EPL teams tend to be much more fluid and attacking but may lack a little tactically. As for off the field it is the most corrupt of the big leagues in Europe with notable match fixing and bribing scandals and the worst crowd issues with the "Ultras". Stabbings are common (but mostly aimed at hurting and not killing). Financially both are as stable as each other.

EPL vs La Liga: The two big teams in La Liga are just a little bit better than the top of the EPL, mostly due to being able to outspend them. La Liga tends to be less competitive than the EPL after the top two with more "rabbit" teams who are beaten by everyone. Financially EPL teams are not very solvent by its much worse in La Liga. The Spanish tax man is owed somewhere in the region of €200,000 per team.


I'm not horribly knowledgable about MLS, but:

Is the MLS better than other leagues WRT:

Competitive Balance:  Yes.  But MLS's structure defines this.  If the MLS became a huge money-maker, I doubt the current structure would survive and the league would have to deal with the same problems as every league.

Match Fixing: We really don't know.  But most likely "yes"., This would have to with the strength of the US legal institutions rather than the MLS.

Diving: No. MLS is not better vis-a-vis diving.  Maybe the Aussie league is the best in those terms.
 
2013-03-17 10:11:38 AM  
Sorry replied to wrong comment above.
 
2013-03-17 10:13:12 AM  
I had Sunderland Norwich as a draw, so this is working out for me so far.
 
2013-03-17 10:14:14 AM  
Those reffing descions remind more of the first few games at the begining of last season. Time and again i've seen that penalty call be waved aside as ball to hand.
 
2013-03-17 10:18:47 AM  

Norfolking Chance: Those reffing descions remind more of the first few games at the begining of last season. Time and again i've seen that penalty call be waved aside as ball to hand.


It is an impossible job. Lessons to be learned from rugby for sure. If I'm ever in charge, there will be pitch-side firing squads.
 
2013-03-17 10:25:21 AM  

midpoint: Norfolking Chance: Those reffing descions remind more of the first few games at the begining of last season. Time and again i've seen that penalty call be waved aside as ball to hand.

It is an impossible job. Lessons to be learned from rugby for sure. If I'm ever in charge, there will be pitch-side firing squads.


Its painful to see them but at the end of the day these poor descions tend to even out over the season. Very hard job made worse by the rampant "gamesmanship"
 
2013-03-17 10:33:03 AM  
To me,mother biggest single issue corruption wise is the people and culture of the macro-governing bodies. FIFA being considerable worse than UEFA, which isn't that good but is better. The recent award of the World Cup to Qatar may be the crisis that bring snecessary change.

Euro states may step in, those nations accounting for most of the cash and global interest.
 
2013-03-17 10:37:34 AM  

Norfolking Chance: midpoint: Norfolking Chance: Those reffing descions remind more of the first few games at the begining of last season. Time and again i've seen that penalty call be waved aside as ball to hand.

It is an impossible job. Lessons to be learned from rugby for sure. If I'm ever in charge, there will be pitch-side firing squads.

Its painful to see them but at the end of the day these poor descions tend to even out over the season. Very hard job made worse by the rampant "gamesmanship"


I tend to agree, but the Timbers have been hosed on non-pk calls.  Last weeks match a fine example.  Defend has arm up in the back of attackers head, makes contact with arm and rest of body, doesn't touch the ball at all.  Ref gives a corner.  Only league where I see refs give corners as concession for fouls (the ref deems not strong enough for a PK) is in rec leagues.  If you are going to call a foul at midfield, call it in the box.  Portland had an iffy no-call last night as well.  The defender did get the ball, but he went thru the attacker.  That happens at midfield and is called about 95% percent of the time.
 
2013-03-17 10:48:22 AM  
In respect of the same teams winning a lot there is something of a positive feedback loop in some leagues.

Winning a league increases your prominence, brings you new fans and then sponsorship/TV deals and merchandise sales means you have greater revenues to spend on facilities(bigger stadia) and players - more and better. All that means you find it incrementally easier to win the league/cup next iteration.

MUFC the perfect example of how that has been efficiently exploited - until the takeover a few years ago.

Celtic and Rangers in Glasgow stuck together to create or deny proposed changes to revenue sharing/TV deals etc. On SPL votes, a motion could ony pass if it had an 11-1 majority, meaning that the Old Firm could exert significant control by working together. An unintended consequence for Celtic of Rangers being cast out has been that they have no partner to
 
2013-03-17 10:49:58 AM  
...block changes which they don't want - e.g the way TV money is shared out.
 
2013-03-17 10:55:48 AM  
 
2013-03-17 10:59:55 AM  

midpoint: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/17/greek-football-lifetim e -ban-nazi-saluteGreek player banned after giving Nazi salute


Moron. Grow up, Europe
 
2013-03-17 11:04:03 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: midpoint: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/17/greek-football-lifetim e -ban-nazi-saluteGreek player banned after giving Nazi salute

Moron. Grow up, Europe


Gets better. The coach of that team is German.
 
2013-03-17 11:11:15 AM  
St Mirren Vs Hearts in the Scottish League Cup today. Don't all rush at once.
 
2013-03-17 11:14:12 AM  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21790728 BBC article on millionaire players who have gone bankrupt.

I'm struck by the high proportion of those that played for Newcastle.
 
2013-03-17 11:20:17 AM  

midpoint: HaywoodJablonski: midpoint: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/17/greek-football-lifetim e -ban-nazi-saluteGreek player banned after giving Nazi salute

Moron. Grow up, Europe

Gets better. The coach of that team is German.


FTA:
"The player's action to salute to spectators in a Nazi manner is a severe provocation, insults all the victims of Nazi bestiality and injures the deeply pacifist and human character of the game," EPO said in a statement.

I must have fallen asleep in class the day we talked about that.
 
2013-03-17 11:25:28 AM  

bjmichel: I must have fallen asleep in class the day we talked about that.


bestiality
1. brutish or beastly character or behavior; beastliness.
2. indulgence in beastlike appetites, instincts, impulses, etc.
3. an instance of bestial character or behavior.
4. sexual relations between a person and an animal; sodomy.
 
2013-03-17 11:32:50 AM  
Nice draw Norwich, gives me +20 to start the day.
 
2013-03-17 11:55:06 AM  
Snoozefest at White Hart Lane. Thankfully, Spurs are playing as awful as we are. Would love to see Emanuelson on for Duff at half, who has been wholly ineffective since signing his new contract.
 
2013-03-17 12:01:43 PM  

Cognitive Displaysia: Snoozefest at White Hart Lane. Thankfully, Spurs are playing as awful as we are. Would love to see Emanuelson on for Duff at half, who has been wholly ineffective since signing his new contract.


Whew, Milan game was eventful, time to relax.

What's been up with Urby? He was always right on the verge of being something at Milan, it seems he would be a regular for that squad, has he been hurt or something?
 
2013-03-17 12:07:25 PM  

martissimo: Cognitive Displaysia: Snoozefest at White Hart Lane. Thankfully, Spurs are playing as awful as we are. Would love to see Emanuelson on for Duff at half, who has been wholly ineffective since signing his new contract.

Whew, Milan game was eventful, time to relax.

What's been up with Urby? He was always right on the verge of being something at Milan, it seems he would be a regular for that squad, has he been hurt or something?


Don't really know. Only thing I can think is he has made it clear he's only here for 6 months, maybe the club is a little miffed and is loathe to give him a lot of playing time. Only hurting ourselves at the moment though, he has great pace and better skill than Duff at this point from what little we've seen of him.
 
2013-03-17 12:10:39 PM  
Berba!!!!!
 
2013-03-17 12:12:41 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org !
 
2013-03-17 12:29:10 PM  
FAT FRANK LAMPARD
Congrats on 200 goals.
 
2013-03-17 12:54:10 PM  
3 pts at White Hart Lane. Best -10 pts in the predictions league this year for me.
 
2013-03-17 12:56:02 PM  

Cognitive Displaysia: 3 pts at White Hart Lane. Best -10 pts in the predictions league this year for me.


I wouldn't be at all surprised to find we're worse at predicting our own teams results than others - excepting key rivals.
 
2013-03-17 12:56:46 PM  

Cognitive Displaysia: 3 pts at White Hart Lane. Best -10 pts in the predictions league this year for me.


Arsenal fans thank Fulham as well.
 
2013-03-17 12:57:08 PM  
Well done Tottenham. Thanks for the -10.
 
2013-03-17 01:03:47 PM  
So I guess we are at that part of the season when Tottenham starts their collapse.
 
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