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(KHOU Houston)   All hell breaks loose when an overprotective helicopter mom spots a cleaning crew employee in the parking lot of her children's school and automatically assumes he's an armed lunatic hellbent on snuffing the life out of every student   (khou.com) divider line 290
    More: Silly, Harris County Sheriff's Office, lockdowns  
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14365 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2013 at 10:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-16 12:28:48 PM

IronTom: Remove everybody's arms and legs.


img24.imageshack.us

Still a potential threat for biting.
 
2013-03-16 12:29:22 PM

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Well, we've already criminalized the Demon Weed, so there's no pot in the country. The folks who are willing to break the law don't seem to, well, obey the law. All your suggestion would do is disarm the law abiding people, who are not the problem.

Prohibition has never worked.


The only reason you need a concealed weapon is to surprise someone.  Yes, your right, prohibition has never worked.  That's why everyone militia in the country has tanks, nukes, howitzers, etc.
 
2013-03-16 12:29:33 PM
Did he come to vipe zee vindows?
 
2013-03-16 12:31:05 PM

Giltric: Has there ever been a case in the US where a student got ahold of an arrmed security officers firearm?


I don't know.  Do you?  But the armed guard's primary job is being a guard.  An armed teacher's primary job is teaching.
 
2013-03-16 12:31:37 PM

Zelron: Secret Master of All Flatulence: I'm pretty sure that most teachers are able to distinguish between a uniformed first responder and some scumbag that walks into a classroom and starts shooting kids.

I'm sure they can.  But can a teacher distinguish between a shooter (who scumbag or not could be wearing a suit and tie) and a parent who's trying to help, and can the uniformed officers distinguish between a teacher, a parent, and a shooter who are all shooting at each other, with most of the bullets going wild and hitting bystanders (children) who are trying to get away?


Once again:  If a parent walks into a classroom and starts shooting kids, I'd think they'd be "fair game".

It's really not that hard to recognize that if somebody is shooting unarmed children, they're the problem, not somebody trying to help.
 
2013-03-16 12:31:57 PM

ReapTheChaos: So it never occurred to anyone to walk out and ask the guy what he was doing there?


This.
 
2013-03-16 12:32:36 PM

Giltric: So you're saying that no new laws would prevent another Sandy Hook?

Good to know.


WTF?  Never said that.  NEVER.
 
2013-03-16 12:33:02 PM
Wait, so she pulled up in her vehicle, saw this suspicious looking character, got scared, yet still took her kids inside? Did she not have the school's phone number? If he had been a real shooter, she would have walked her family right into it! Stupid biatch.
 
2013-03-16 12:33:09 PM

Secret Master of All Flatulence: BTW:  I'm not suggesting issuing every teacher a gun.  But if a teacher is willing to get the appropriate training, say, the same training and annual certification as local law enforcement, it would make the school safer, not more dangerous to allow them to be armed.  Besides, DHS recently released a video suggesting that if there's an active shooter, teachers should attack the active shooter with a pair of scissors.  I'm not kidding.  After my wife was locked down in a school while there was an active shooter in a school a short distance away, they told her that if she wanted to resist the shooter, it was permissable to throw textbooks at him.  Textbooks.


i believe anyone who wants to own a gun should have far more training than local law enforcement.  I, for instance, am trained not to shoot a newspaper delivery truck up 40 times and still not hit one of two people inside. LAPD is not.
 
2013-03-16 12:33:41 PM

Zelron: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Well, we've already criminalized the Demon Weed, so there's no pot in the country. The folks who are willing to break the law don't seem to, well, obey the law. All your suggestion would do is disarm the law abiding people, who are not the problem.

Prohibition has never worked.

The only reason you need a concealed weapon is to surprise someone.  Yes, your right, prohibition has never worked.  That's why everyone militia in the country has tanks, nukes, howitzers, etc.


Ahh so you're one of those......
 
2013-03-16 12:34:29 PM

superlawyergirl: but what if her suspicions were correct?


See my previous comment. Stupid hysterical biatch is stupid.
 
2013-03-16 12:35:17 PM

Zelron: can the uniformed officers distinguish between a teacher, a parent, and a shooter who are all shooting at each other, with most of the bullets going wild and hitting bystanders (children) who are trying to get away?


You have references to back this up or at least something anecdotal?

You almost sound like the paranoid mom in the article.
 
2013-03-16 12:35:32 PM

TheMaskedArmadillo: SurelyShirley: ReapTheChaos: So it never occurred to anyone to walk out and ask the guy what he was doing there?

No, no, no! You just know he's going to shoot you as soon as you approach.
Haven't you learned anything?
Do not approach strangers! They are out to kill kill kill!
Better to curl up, hide and be afraid.
You obviously need to watch more television, so you know what's going on in the real world.

Actually, I do a lot of social engineering for work (you would be amazed how many CEO's desk I have put my feet on) and we encourage  our clients to challenge anyone in their office that appears to not belong.  You don't need to be rude about, just ask them how you can help.  99.99% of the time (or more) the situation is harmless


I realize this is not so hard, and is the commsense thing to do, but I can't help being annoyed that I'm being asked to be  a security officer in addition to my real job.  Although I do get pretty hysterical when slobs won't clean up their dishes, which is a similar situation.

Plus, sometimes when I feel like a dick I yank the badged doors shut behind me, even though I know there are people headed for them to come through...
 
2013-03-16 12:35:43 PM
A "new" cleaning crew in that part of Houston (with a school name that sounds like a nice condo complex...wtf?) would likely be all brown and run by a white guy. The guy in the parking lot would also likely know little to no English, and if asked what he was doing there, his attitude would have been of panic, and fear. Moreover, if he resorted to using hand/body gestures to communicate...mopping would indicate stabbing children with a spear, vacuuming would be cleaning up the bloody mess after the massacre, and sweeping would indicate stirring the kids body parts in a vat of boiling water. And God help the poor Hispanic if he gestured like he was cleaning a window, while squeezing the air-trigger of a bottle of non-existent Windex.

Thus, the "bold" person who would have been sent out to ask him what he was doing there would have ended up calling 911 to say that they need SWAT asap, because he's making terrorist gestures.
 
2013-03-16 12:35:57 PM

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Once again: If a parent walks into a classroom and starts shooting kids, I'd think they'd be "fair game".

It's really not that hard to recognize that if somebody is shooting unarmed children, they're the problem, not somebody trying to help.


Well, I'm making an assumption based on guns in the home.  Having a gun in the home increases the likelihood that you'll get shot and killed, most likely in an accident or by someone in your home who's pissed at you.

So bring them into the school and kids in the school are more likely to be shot accidentally or by someone who's pissed at them.

I'm not going to change your mind.  You're not going to change my mind.  I'd rather have my kids in a gun free school and take the miniscule risk that someone will come in and shoot them than take the larger miniscule risk that they'd accidentally be shot by a weapon brought in for protection.
 
2013-03-16 12:36:27 PM

DigitalCoffee: grokca: Broktun: Remember back in late 2001 when anyone who looked middle-eastern was a terrorist?

Good times.

No, Good Times was black, not middle-eastern.

[img.imtwelve.com image 259x194]


Bah.  Good times was Goths!
 
2013-03-16 12:37:38 PM

Giltric: You have references to back this up or at least something anecdotal?


Nine people shot in broad daylight on a NYC street by cops shooting at an armed man.  The nine were bystanders.  Anecdote that.
 
2013-03-16 12:37:49 PM

Satanic_Hamster: lokis_mentor: IBelieveYouHaveMyStapler: Other than being someone she didn't know, I don't see what the guy did that was suspicious.  I can just imagine what that 911 call sounded like.  "Someone has to get here quick!  My God now he's getting keys out of his pocket!!  We're all going to be killed!!"

Given that part of Texas, and guy ended up being a new guy on the cleaning crew, he was probably just brown.  That neighborhood is pretty much golf course subdivisions and is one of the more monied sections of harris county

I live in Katy.

Five bucks the woman is white.  Twenty bucks says the guy was black or Hispanic.


In which case she shouldn't have been fearful at all. Blacks and Hispanics are never mass shooters. It's always white folk or the occasional Asian.
 
2013-03-16 12:38:38 PM

Zelron: The only reason you need a concealed weapon is to surprise someone.  Yes, your right, prohibition has never worked.  That's why everyone militia in the country has tanks, nukes, howitzers, etc.


No, the whole idea behind concealed carry is so that the bad guy doesn't know which of his intended victims MIGHT be armed. Well, that, and to give the good guy an effective tool to deal with the situation, without freaking people like the idiot in the story.

Oh, and BTW:  in many states, it's legal to own tanks, howitzers, belt-fed machineguns, "silencers", grenades, "sawed off shotguns", et cetera.  You just have to be able to afford it, pay either a $5 or $200 tax, and pass a background check.  Hell, I know a guy who owns a real, live WWII era bomber.  Oddly enough, they are almost never used to commit crimes.
 
2013-03-16 12:38:43 PM

Giltric: You almost sound like the paranoid mom in the article.


I'm not so paranoid that I have to carry around a 9mm penis enhancer.
 
2013-03-16 12:38:56 PM

Zelron: Having a gun in the home increases the likelihood that you'll get shot and killed, most likely in an accident or by someone in your home who's pissed at you.


Yeah, and if you have a knife in the home you are more likely to cut yourself than if you have no knives in the home.
 
2013-03-16 12:38:58 PM

gonegirl: Christ.  She is going to be raising some hyper-fearful little nightmare factories, there.  Bet those kids need medication before they're in double-digits.


Do you mean double-digits as in chronological age? Or in IQ?
 
2013-03-16 12:39:37 PM

Secret Master of All Flatulence: BTW:  I'm not suggesting issuing every teacher a gun.  But if a teacher is willing to get the appropriate training, say, the same training and annual certification as local law enforcement, it would make the school safer, not more dangerous to allow them to be armed.  Besides, DHS recently released a video suggesting that if there's an active shooter, teachers should attack the active shooter with a pair of scissors.  I'm not kidding.  After my wife was locked down in a school while there was an active shooter in a school a short distance away, they told her that if she wanted to resist the shooter, it was permissable to throw textbooks at him.  Textbooks.




What trained and certified might look like.
patdollard.com
 
2013-03-16 12:40:48 PM

Mock26: Zelron: Having a gun in the home increases the likelihood that you'll get shot and killed, most likely in an accident or by someone in your home who's pissed at you.

Yeah, and if you have a knife in the home you are more likely to cut yourself than if you have no knives in the home.


WTF?  When's the last time you heard of someone blowing their buddy's head off with a knife?
 
2013-03-16 12:41:15 PM

Zelron: Secret Master of All Flatulence: BTW:  I'm not suggesting issuing every teacher a gun.  But if a teacher is willing to get the appropriate training, say, the same training and annual certification as local law enforcement, it would make the school safer, not more dangerous to allow them to be armed.  Besides, DHS recently released a video suggesting that if there's an active shooter, teachers should attack the active shooter with a pair of scissors.  I'm not kidding.  After my wife was locked down in a school while there was an active shooter in a school a short distance away, they told her that if she wanted to resist the shooter, it was permissable to throw textbooks at him.  Textbooks.

Bring guns into schools and kids will get a hold of the guns, whether they mean to be malicious or not.  It removes the step where the shooter needs to bring a gun to school, because there will already be guns there.

They do not belong there except in the hands of a professional armed guard or police officer.


We accept bloody attrition on our nation's highways, for the good of society. Why is this different?
 
2013-03-16 12:44:08 PM

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Well, that, and to give the good guy an effective tool to deal with the situation, without freaking people like the idiot in the story.


Simply holding a gun, whether you have taken it to the range to shoot it or not, does not actually prepare a person for a RL situation like this. They would most likely still be pissing their pants when push comes to shove.
 
2013-03-16 12:44:54 PM

Zelron: Giltric: You have references to back this up or at least something anecdotal?

Nine people shot in broad daylight on a NYC street by cops shooting at an armed man.  The nine were bystanders.  Anecdote that.


Civil servants...go figure....I'd wager that some of them were not required to have a high score on their exam in order to join the ranks of the NYPD and that some people with higher scores were passed up in the name of diversity and fairness.

Thats why I think we should disarm the police and arm citizens. Part of the reason is the response time, part of the reason is the SCOTUS has stated that it is not the responsibility of the police to protect you, part of the reason is that police are given as much time and as much ammo to be certified on their weapon as needed and rarely do they take the time to actually improve their firearm skills but civillians do.

A cops job is to generate revenue for the municipality, they don't have time or interest in being your personal security guard.
 
2013-03-16 12:45:39 PM

Zelron: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Right. Obviously, we can't trust teachers with a gun. In that case, if they're so untrustworthy, WHY ARE WE TRUSTING THEM WITH OUR CHILDREN in the first place???

It's not the trust in teachers that's the problem.  It's (a) bringing something into the school that's more likely to cause problems than solve them, (b) some students will find a way to get a hold of them, (c) you don't want random people joining a firefight because you'll more likely end up with friendly fire incidents.  Most teachers don't want them either because then they'll need training, certification, etc. and they already have to do that up the wazoo.


You are just scared because you don't want to fire an armed teacher.
 
2013-03-16 12:46:22 PM

Zelron: Giltric: You almost sound like the paranoid mom in the article.

I'm not so paranoid that I have to carry around a 9mm penis enhancer.


EIP? I got some pictures for you.

How do you want me to prove it is my wiener? Should I take a picture of it next to this thread?
 
2013-03-16 12:47:24 PM

Zelron: Well, I'm making an assumption based on guns in the home.  Having a gun in the home increases the likelihood that you'll get shot and killed, most likely in an accident or by someone in your home who's pissed at you.


Um, wrong.  If you die from a gun in the home, it's far more likely to be an actual suicide than either of the others.  You need to read the footnotes in the Kellerman study.  Oh, one other fun factoid:  Kellerman, despite being rabidly anti-gun, has publicly stated that if his wife was being attacked, he'd want her to meet the attacker "with a .38 in her hand."  Oh, crap, now you've got me going.  Another fun little tidbit:  If a person is attacked and decides to resist the attack without a weapon, they have roughly a 1:2 chance of being injured.  If they decide to resist the attack with any weapon other than a firearm, they've got roughly a 1:3 chance of being injured.  If they resist the attack with a firearm, they've got roughly a 1:5 chance of being injured.  Those figures are from DOJ's BJS during the Clinton administration.  Which odds would you prefer?
 
2013-03-16 12:47:50 PM

Zelron: Mock26: Zelron: Having a gun in the home increases the likelihood that you'll get shot and killed, most likely in an accident or by someone in your home who's pissed at you.

Yeah, and if you have a knife in the home you are more likely to cut yourself than if you have no knives in the home.

WTF?  When's the last time you heard of someone blowing their buddy's head off with a knife?


This morning......http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/03/accused_killer_ cut_ankle_brac e.html
 
2013-03-16 12:49:51 PM

offmymeds: FTA: He said 'we've been kind of busy pulling a body out of a lake.'

Sounds more interesting than a panicky parent.


"Wuhl, that person's already DEAD and MY CHILDREN are still ALIIIVE!"
 
2013-03-16 12:49:52 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Well, that, and to give the good guy an effective tool to deal with the situation, without freaking people like the idiot in the story.

Simply holding a gun, whether you have taken it to the range to shoot it or not, does not actually prepare a person for a RL situation like this. They would most likely still be pissing their pants when push comes to shove.


Same deal with cops.  Do we disarm them?
 
2013-03-16 12:50:14 PM

Zelron: Secret Master of All Flatulence: BTW:  I'm not suggesting issuing every teacher a gun.  But if a teacher is willing to get the appropriate training, say, the same training and annual certification as local law enforcement, it would make the school safer, not more dangerous to allow them to be armed.  Besides, DHS recently released a video suggesting that if there's an active shooter, teachers should attack the active shooter with a pair of scissors.  I'm not kidding.  After my wife was locked down in a school while there was an active shooter in a school a short distance away, they told her that if she wanted to resist the shooter, it was permissable to throw textbooks at him.  Textbooks.

Bring guns into schools and kids will get a hold of the guns, whether they mean to be malicious or not.  It removes the step where the shooter needs to bring a gun to school, because there will already be guns there.

xroads.virginia.edu

They do not belong there except in the hands of a professional armed guard or police officer.


What a trained professional might look like.
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
I wonder if anyone has compaired the odds of being shot by a police officer vs. being mass murdered.
 
2013-03-16 12:51:25 PM

Zelron: Well, I'm making an assumption based on guns in the home. Having a gun in the home increases the likelihood that you'll get shot and killed, most likely in an accident or by someone in your home who's pissed at you.


Do not most suicides occur in the home?
 
2013-03-16 12:52:57 PM

red5ish: Sarah Atchison, mother of two, comes off as overwrought and high strung. This is where she really hits her stride:

"I said I've been on the phone with you for 13 minutes and you're just now getting here? He said ' we've been kind of busy pulling a body out of a lake.' I left. I couldn't handle it anymore."


Her xanax was at home and she was unable to post her terror on FB while waiting. You just don't understand do you?
 
2013-03-16 12:56:32 PM
Because a car isn't designed to kill.  And we make laws about owning them, keeping them safely maintained, requiring insurance (not all states I suppose).  They're constantly improving safety.  My kids rode in legally required car seats and booster seats.

If guns were made so they couldn't shoot people then I'd have less of a problem with them.  Their sole purpose is to kill.

Cars are used for their intended purpose every day.  It's more likely to be used for its intended purpose than to have a fatal accident.

A gun in the house is more likely to injure someone in the house than to be used to protect someone in the house.

My father-in-law accidentally discharged his handgun in his house twice.  Once was within an hour have having taken a refresher safety class.
My mother-in-law left hers in a changing room in a store (which fortunately she retrieved before it was found by someone else).
I had a friend who blew his head off on purpose.  Perhaps if he hadn't had access to a gun he wouldn't have killed himself.
My father almost took out his eye with a .22 rifle when he shot a rock and a chip came back at him. (Yes, he shouldn't have been shooting at a rock).
A friend of mine almost killed his brother (fortunately the friend was paying attention).  He was loading a double barreled shotgun when his brother walked in front of him.  So my friend turned before closing the breech and both barrels went off.  The pins were too far down.
I have other relatives who own guns (as did my father).  I have friends who own guns.
With all of this, NONE of them have ever been in a situation where having a gun would have protected them.  One perhaps would still be alive.  My father received a minor injury, and my father-in-law had two (that I know of) opportunities to wound/kill someone.
I was shooting skeet once and my friend's friend was a police officer who handed me a shotgun with the safety off.

So, I don't think I'm paranoid when I agree with studies that show that you're more likely to be injured by having a weapon in your home than you are likely to protect yourself.  I'm just playing the odds.  If I thought it would be the other way around, then I'd be the first in line to buy one.
 
2013-03-16 12:56:48 PM

AbbeySomeone: red5ish: Sarah Atchison, mother of two, comes off as overwrought and high strung. This is where she really hits her stride:

"I said I've been on the phone with you for 13 minutes and you're just now getting here? He said ' we've been kind of busy pulling a body out of a lake.' I left. I couldn't handle it anymore."

Her xanax was at home and she was unable to post her terror on FB while waiting. You just don't understand do you?




Xanax needs to be banned. I hate you xanax zombies. Get the fark off the road. Oh, and stay out of the schools.
 
2013-03-16 12:59:23 PM

StoPPeRmobile: You are just scared because you don't want to fire an armed teacher.


Nope, I'm not.  I'm actually suffer from depression and frankly wish someone would put me out of my misery every day.  I take medicine for it but it just takes the edge off.  I sometimes think about jumping in front of the train on my way to work, but that'd be inconsiderate to my family and to the driver and to the people trying to get to work.

So no, I'm not afraid of firing an armed teacher.
 
2013-03-16 12:59:49 PM
Was he one of these guys?

banzai.popapostle.com
 
2013-03-16 01:03:41 PM

buckler: Was he one of these guys?

[banzai.popapostle.com image 216x241]


His name was Carmenjelo.

I mean Steve.
 
2013-03-16 01:04:10 PM

Zelron: A gun in the house is more likely to injure someone in the house than to be used to protect someone in the house.


Suicide isn't the answer.
 
2013-03-16 01:04:13 PM

Giltric: Civil servants...go figure....I'd wager that some of them were not required to have a high score on their exam in order to join the ranks of the NYPD and that some people with higher scores were passed up in the name of diversity and fairness.

Thats why I think we should disarm the police and arm citizens. Part of the reason is the response time, part of the reason is the SCOTUS has stated that it is not the responsibility of the police to protect you, part of the reason is that police are given as much time and as much ammo to be certified on their weapon as needed and rarely do they take the time to actually improve their firearm skills but civillians do.

A cops job is to generate revenue for the municipality, they don't have time or interest in being your personal security guard.


Let's see, you scoff at cops being Civil Servants and yet that's what teachers are.  And you expect that teachers will get more training than cops.  And you expect that someone who isn't constantly training (like a SWAT team) has any chance at remaining calm and not start shaking from a rush of adrenaline under fire.

Do you actually read what you write?  "Don't arm cops, they're civil servants.  Arm teachers because they're civil servants."

Do you vote for or against teacher pay raises?  Frankly, if I'm expected to learn to shoot and stay certified I want a raise or it's not in my job description.

I'm not asking for a personal security guard.  I know that if someone breaks into my house to assault me it's between me and the assailant.  I also know that I'm more likely to blow my own foot off with a gun in the house or to hurt one of my family members than I am to be assaulted in my house by some stranger.

Doyou
 
2013-03-16 01:05:26 PM

Zelron: StoPPeRmobile: You are just scared because you don't want to fire an armed teacher.

Nope, I'm not.  I'm actually suffer from depression and frankly wish someone would put me out of my misery every day.  I take medicine for it but it just takes the edge off.  I sometimes think about jumping in front of the train on my way to work, but that'd be inconsiderate to my family and to the driver and to the people trying to get to work.

So no, I'm not afraid of firing an armed teacher.


Fair enough. I'm wrong about that. Sorry.
 
2013-03-16 01:07:04 PM

Giltric: Zelron: Mock26: Zelron: Having a gun in the home increases the likelihood that you'll get shot and killed, most likely in an accident or by someone in your home who's pissed at you.

Yeah, and if you have a knife in the home you are more likely to cut yourself than if you have no knives in the home.

WTF?  When's the last time you heard of someone blowing their buddy's head off with a knife?

This morning......http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/03/accused_killer_ cut_ankle_brac e.html


And you think a gun would have helped her when he got the drop on her?  The only difference would have been that after the attack he would have been armed with a gun.

I'm still playing the odds that I'll be less likely to be assaulted than accidentally kill or harm someone.
 
2013-03-16 01:09:34 PM

mr_a: I can't imagine why it would take the cops 16 minutes to get there. Maybe they were off investigating some other wild-goose chase called in by a different hysterical mother?


FTFA:
"I said I've been on the phone with you for 13 minutes and you're just now getting here? He said 'we've been kind of busy pulling a body out of a lake.'

In other words, an actual goose...
 
2013-03-16 01:10:27 PM
I can understand a lady freaking out due to news-induced paranoia - but the school office staff response was to follow a parent's opinion? Good job there...
 
2013-03-16 01:10:42 PM

nmemkha: While the man she thought looked "suspicious" is questioned, the man she thought "looked nice" waltzed in and shot everyone.

People are idiots who think they can judge a person by looking at them.


And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"
 
2013-03-16 01:11:48 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: John the Magnificent: WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO YOU PEOPLE?

Are you telling me that 9/11 didn't change everything?

9/11 changed everything...


If it wasn't for 9/11, she would have had to go inside to get the number for the police, and found out the guy was actually a janitor... Stupid 911, now ANYONE can call the police.
 
2013-03-16 01:16:19 PM

superlawyergirl: She's considered paranoid and annoying because she was wrong, but what if her suspicions were correct?


"Suspicions" of what? A janitor in the parking lot? The guy had no weapons, she had nothing base her "suspicions" on. If we praise this woman, the only logical next step is allowing police to demand our 'papers' at any time, and with no reason. This means they get to pull you off of the street and detain you just because they don't like the way you look.
 
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