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(io9)   What happens when HBO's Game of Thrones runs out of books to adapt?   (io9.com) divider line 124
    More: Misc, Game of Thrones, HBO, George R. R. Martin, David Benioff  
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6372 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Mar 2013 at 5:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 05:26:34 PM  
The cast is beheaded, dipped in tar, and fed to dragons.
 
2013-03-15 05:31:03 PM  
I really had to struggle to finish Dance With Dragons. I think there's a pretty significant dropoff in quality between Martin's first three books and his last two. They aren't terrible but they no longer stand as good books on their own. Game of Thrones could have been a stand-alone novel on its own, but you don't get that from the later ones. In the first books, you'd get frustrated at the end of a chapter cause you wanted to know what was going to happen to that character next. In the latter two, chapters just end randomly at random spots. In all the books characters spend a lot of time moving into place for a final conflict or two or three. In the last few books, characters just move around for no real purpose.

I still think there's enough in them to make really good TV, but I hope Martin gets his act together for the last couple. He's left plot points dangling for thousands and thousands of pages now and it's time he starts thinking about how to wrap this up, not keep introducing 100 new characters every damn book.
 
2013-03-15 05:38:14 PM  

Confabulat: I really had to struggle to finish Dance With Dragons. I think there's a pretty significant dropoff in quality between Martin's first three books and his last two. They aren't terrible but they no longer stand as good books on their own.


Feast for Crows actually rewards a second reading. Dance with Dragons is basically a public exhibition of an author's struggles with writer's block. It's not bad, but it's not good. The next one will make or break the series, with loose ends tied up in the seventh. I'm hoping he can pull it off.
 
2013-03-15 05:38:30 PM  
If he just stopped wasting time with all the Dorne nonsense he would probably be done by now
 
2013-03-15 05:39:35 PM  
Also, it's possible that the pressure of HBO bigwigs with large checks to wave around will result in a quicker output of novels than the grousing of high fantasy nerds on the Internet.
 
2013-03-15 05:40:05 PM  
I like the way the walking dead kinda just takes its own spin on the tv series, I think with limitations of TV and cgi to a persons imagination when reading that tv in conjunction with the author needs to take it own path away from books anyhow to offer a better product,

when the story ends it could just be a new beginning
 
2013-03-15 05:40:10 PM  
GRRM fixes the cable?
 
2013-03-15 05:40:42 PM  
Well, they are making the next book in 2 seasons.  At least, thats the rumor Ive heard.  So, we're on book 3 now right?  Book 1 = 1, Book 2 = 2, Book 3 = 3 and 4, Book 4 = 5 and 6, Book 5 = 6 and 7 book 6 = 8 and 9 ... if there's a book 7, there we have 10+.

I could go for 10 seasons.  Although this whole "season" thing is just ridiculous in the modern era.  Take yourselves a month or two break and call it a new volume, don't take a year off. :-S
 
2013-03-15 05:41:28 PM  

theorellior: Confabulat: I really had to struggle to finish Dance With Dragons. I think there's a pretty significant dropoff in quality between Martin's first three books and his last two. They aren't terrible but they no longer stand as good books on their own.

Feast for Crows actually rewards a second reading. Dance with Dragons is basically a public exhibition of an author's struggles with writer's block. It's not bad, but it's not good. The next one will make or break the series, with loose ends tied up in the seventh. I'm hoping he can pull it off.


I'll reiterate this. I didn't like Feast for Crows at all during the first read through, then waited a couple of years before reading it again and I really enjoyed it. I haven't read Dance with Dragons yet, though probably will soon.
 
2013-03-15 05:47:06 PM  

WillofJ2: I like the way the walking dead kinda just takes its own spin on the tv series, I think with limitations of TV and cgi to a persons imagination when reading that tv in conjunction with the author needs to take it own path away from books anyhow to offer a better product,

when the story ends it could just be a new beginning


True Blood does the same thing, however, the HBO "do its own thing" is "go offroad and put the dick in the crazy".
 
2013-03-15 05:48:43 PM  
I'm more wondering when Peter Dinklage wants an insane amount of money when his contract expires (unless he is already contracted to 7+ seasons).

Maybe Wee Man or the black dwarf from BAD SANTA are available
 
905
2013-03-15 05:51:04 PM  
Obviously, they start pre-production on Game of Thrones 2:  The Search For More Money.
 
2013-03-15 05:53:57 PM  

ekdikeo4: Well, they are making the next book in 2 seasons.  At least, thats the rumor Ive heard.  So, we're on book 3 now right?  Book 1 = 1, Book 2 = 2, Book 3 = 3 and 4, Book 4 = 5 and 6, Book 5 = 6 and 7 book 6 = 8 and 9 ... if there's a book 7, there we have 10+.

I could go for 10 seasons.  Although this whole "season" thing is just ridiculous in the modern era.  Take yourselves a month or two break and call it a new volume, don't take a year off. :-S


Only book 3 deserves to be split into 2 seasons, there's so much awesome in it. Books four and five will (should) be combined into seasons 5 and 6. Probably 3 seasons total for the last 2 books to draw it out for cash. My two cents.
 
2013-03-15 05:55:54 PM  
I just hope they dont waste time and close on a big dissapointment like sopranos or never finish the story like deadwood
 
2013-03-15 05:56:05 PM  

WillofJ2: I like the way the walking dead kinda just takes its own spin on the tv series, I think with limitations of TV and cgi to a persons imagination when reading that tv in conjunction with the author needs to take it own path away from books anyhow to offer a better product,

when the story ends it could just be a new beginning


Martin has said he's worried the TV show will influence the way he ends the series. He writes for the show too so I can see where it could get confusing. Michael Crichton threw out his own Jurassic Park novel and wrote a sequel to the movie instead, while Stephen King insists his sequel to The Shining has nothing to do with the Kubrick movie. If anything, maybe the TV show will nudge Martin towards better pacing.
 
2013-03-15 05:58:14 PM  
He about kills everyone off- so who are we supposed to follow/sympathize with?

/besides Daenerys
//sweet sweet Daenerys
 
2013-03-15 05:58:43 PM  
Just make season 3 of Rome instead.
 
2013-03-15 05:59:01 PM  
They can stretch it out by adding in characters that add nothing to the overall plot, who die by the end of the season, leaving you to wonder what was the purpose of having such a pointless framing device in the first place.
 
2013-03-15 05:59:31 PM  
Game of Thrones is popular and well made...therefore as soon as we get a large enough season ending cliff hanger, HBO will juggle executive staff and GoT will be summarily canceled because its farkING EXPENSIVE.
 
2013-03-15 05:59:32 PM  
How 'bout the series just ends like The Sporanos or The Wire?
 
2013-03-15 06:01:04 PM  
I read the 4th and 5th books interleaved since that's how they work chronologically.  They seemed pretty good that way.

I could see where that might be much less annoying then first reading about a bunch of new charactors you don't care about but who are doing a lot of stuff.  And then in the next book reading a bunch of stuff about the charactors who you do care about but who are just moving around and not really doing anything.

I used this to determine the chapter order: http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-reader-friendly-combin ed-reading-order-for-a">http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-n ew-reader-friendly-combin ed-reading-order-for-a
 
2013-03-15 06:02:04 PM  
They enter a transdimensional  portal and hang out with Sookie, vampire Bill and Pam?
 
2013-03-15 06:06:33 PM  

theorellior: Feast for Crows actually rewards a second reading. Dance with Dragons is basically a public exhibition of an author's struggles with writer's block. It's not bad, but it's not good. The next one will make or break the series, with loose ends tied up in the seventh.


The problem here is that what you're saying about The Winds of Winter "making or breaking" the series was exactly what people were saying about Feast for Crows, then Dance with Dragons.  In case you haven't figured it out yet, things happen, but important things don't happen.  There hasn't yet been a "Death Star go boom" moment, and in hindsight even a certain ruddy-tinted ceremony really only takes a few bit pieces off the board.  The series badly needs to trade some fireworks for a bulldozer that gets shiat moving, if even at a plodding pace.

The reason why most people enjoy the latter two books more on a subsequent readthrough is that the brain is already familiar with the material, so the reader can selectively focus on stuff that does resolve.  If what does resolve fits the sort of tastes the reader cares about then it's an enjoyable experience, but this doesn't make for reliable recommendations to readers who expect more.  The problem is that the things that do resolve -- Tyrion vs. his father, Cersei's arrest, Catelyn and Robb, etc. -- don't amount to anything more than a hill of beans in terms of plot progression.  Does anything that happens in Dance with Dragons hearken an era of stability -- good OR bad or even for the love of all fantasy even meh -- for Westeros?  If the umpteenth Crypto McBastard's betrayal of Lord Fop isn't going to eventually result in some sort of Westeros version of the French Revolution, why should I give a shiat?  It's ironic because while "conventional narrative isn't the point" is an increasingly prominent defense of how badly this series is dragging, history in fact does resolve.

The series can't have a "make or break" point and be defended as a "gritty historical-type narrative" at the same time.  It has to be one or the other.  But if it's gonna have a "make or break" it's about 2500 pages overdue, and if the narrative is deliberately aimless then it's about time GRRM came clean about it.
 
2013-03-15 06:07:36 PM  
maybe just maybe he'll finish the effing story!
 
2013-03-15 06:10:39 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: WillofJ2: I like the way the walking dead kinda just takes its own spin on the tv series, I think with limitations of TV and cgi to a persons imagination when reading that tv in conjunction with the author needs to take it own path away from books anyhow to offer a better product,

when the story ends it could just be a new beginning

True Blood does the same thing, however, the HBO "do its own thing" is "go offroad and put the dick in the crazy".


Yeah....edgy and crazy is often a fine line lost to tv used to think of cinemax as the drunken family member to hbo now everyone is on the sauce



Confabulat:
WillofJ2: I like the way the walking dead kinda just takes its own spin on the tv series, I think with limitations of TV and cgi to a persons imagination when reading that tv in conjunction with the author needs to take it own path away from books anyhow to offer a better product,

when the story ends it could just be a new beginning

Martin has said he's worried the TV show will influence the way he ends the series. He writes for the show too so I can see where it could get confusing. Michael Crichton threw out his own Jurassic Park novel and wrote a sequel to the movie instead, while Stephen King insists his sequel to The Shining has nothing to do with the Kubrick movie. If anything, maybe the TV show will nudge Martin towards better pacing.


Maybe as far as pacing.

Always my issues with books once another medium gets involved, chicken and egg of did another's vision taint what the author would have done and then there is always what is gonna sell best once they taste the money which I cant blame them for, Stephen King is a whole different animal.  his adaptations always seemed just a little odd/off
 
2013-03-15 06:11:09 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: They can stretch it out by adding in characters that add nothing to the overall plot, who die by the end of the season, leaving you to wonder what was the purpose of having such a pointless framing device in the first place.


Like GRRM does in the books?  (Looking at you, Quentyn Martell).
 
2013-03-15 06:13:36 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: maybe just maybe he'll finish the effing story!


What happened?  What about the glands?
 
2013-03-15 06:15:39 PM  

rocinante721: I'm more wondering when Peter Dinklage wants an insane amount of money when his contract expires (unless he is already contracted to 7+ seasons).

Maybe Wee Man or the black dwarf from BAD SANTA are available


Only if they let him play a fanfare
 
2013-03-15 06:17:31 PM  
There's that graphic novel prequel, the Hedge Knight. They could stretch that into a season.
 
2013-03-15 06:17:31 PM  
Well that's what happens when you try to write fantasy for millennials in 3 pages per chapter, Heroes format.

It used to be "OH GRRM IS SO EDGY AND farkED UP HE WILL KILL OFF ANYONE!!11!!"

Now its "why do I bother caring, this story isn't actually going anywhere"
 
2013-03-15 06:17:33 PM  

AlHarris31: Looking at you, Quentyn Martell


He should have published that whole character arc as a separate novella or something. I see where he was going with it, but forcing a couple hundred pages about his wacky adventures on us in the middle of people we DO care about was annoying.
 
2013-03-15 06:19:35 PM  
Compare and contrast- The question of what to do when Game of Thrones runs out of books to film has turned into something entirely different with Peter Jackson's adaptation of "The Hobbit."

Tolkien did something completely different. He created a world which lived outside his books of "Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit." He did this by extensively writing a whole history of Middle-Earth and publishing books detailing this.

Many complain that Peter Jackson padded out "The Hobbit" movie with many scenes that were not in the book of "The Hobbit." However, Jackson was able to do, and did, what the producers of the "Game of Thrones" series could not do, draw on other sources besides the original book itself.

Jackson looked to the appendices of "Lord of the Rings" and other writings of Tolkien which covered the same imaginary historical period as the events in the book of "The Hobbit" to flesh out and show everything that was happening at that time, rather than just follow the events in the original book itself.

See this link for proof of the above ideas:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/dislike-peter-jacksons-em _ b_2342591.html

As far as I see by looking on Amazon, George Martin's history of Westeros is all contained in the fictional series that he wrote. There are no other publications by George Martin beyond his series. So when it runs out it runs out and that is it. However, because of the nature of Tolkien's writing, Jackson found a way around this limitation that the "Game of Thrones" people at HBO cannot emulate.
 
2013-03-15 06:20:20 PM  
...it will turn into complete porn?
 
2013-03-15 06:24:40 PM  

Do you know the way to Mordor: Compare and contrast- The question of what to do when Game of Thrones runs out of books to film has turned into something entirely different with Peter Jackson's adaptation of "The Hobbit."

Tolkien did something completely different. He created a world which lived outside his books of "Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit." He did this by extensively writing a whole history of Middle-Earth and publishing books detailing this.

Many complain that Peter Jackson padded out "The Hobbit" movie with many scenes that were not in the book of "The Hobbit." However, Jackson was able to do, and did, what the producers of the "Game of Thrones" series could not do, draw on other sources besides the original book itself.

Jackson looked to the appendices of "Lord of the Rings" and other writings of Tolkien which covered the same imaginary historical period as the events in the book of "The Hobbit" to flesh out and show everything that was happening at that time, rather than just follow the events in the original book itself.

See this link for proof of the above ideas:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/dislike-peter-jacksons-em _ b_2342591.html

As far as I see by looking on Amazon, George Martin's history of Westeros is all contained in the fictional series that he wrote. There are no other publications by George Martin beyond his series. So when it runs out it runs out and that is it. However, because of the nature of Tolkien's writing, Jackson found a way around this limitation that the "Game of Thrones" people at HBO cannot emulate.


Well, kinda.. almost the entirety of the "Big middle earth history" like the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales and etc were just Christopher Tolkien and the estate trying to suck more money out of good old dads corpse.
 
2013-03-15 06:29:29 PM  

Do you know the way to Mordor: Compare and contrast- The question of what to do when Game of Thrones runs out of books to film has turned into something entirely different with Peter Jackson's adaptation of "The Hobbit."

Tolkien did something completely different. He created a world which lived outside his books of "Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit." He did this by extensively writing a whole history of Middle-Earth and publishing books detailing this.

Many complain that Peter Jackson padded out "The Hobbit" movie with many scenes that were not in the book of "The Hobbit." However, Jackson was able to do, and did, what the producers of the "Game of Thrones" series could not do, draw on other sources besides the original book itself.

Jackson looked to the appendices of "Lord of the Rings" and other writings of Tolkien which covered the same imaginary historical period as the events in the book of "The Hobbit" to flesh out and show everything that was happening at that time, rather than just follow the events in the original book itself.

See this link for proof of the above ideas:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/dislike-peter-jacksons-em _ b_2342591.html

As far as I see by looking on Amazon, George Martin's history of Westeros is all contained in the fictional series that he wrote. There are no other publications by George Martin beyond his series. So when it runs out it runs out and that is it. However, because of the nature of Tolkien's writing, Jackson found a way around this limitation that the "Game of Thrones" people at HBO cannot emulate.


He works with the producers and has scripted a couple of the episodes.  Pretty sure if they absolutely needed to come up with something or other that wasn't in the books but was still cannon to the universe they could probably just ask him to come up a framework old legend or something that they could then build a couple episodes around.
 
2013-03-15 06:30:24 PM  
More boobs?
 
2013-03-15 06:31:11 PM  

Confabulat: I really had to struggle to finish Dance With Dragons. I think there's a pretty significant dropoff in quality between Martin's first three books and his last two. They aren't terrible but they no longer stand as good books on their own. Game of Thrones could have been a stand-alone novel on its own, but you don't get that from the later ones. In the first books, you'd get frustrated at the end of a chapter cause you wanted to know what was going to happen to that character next. In the latter two, chapters just end randomly at random spots. In all the books characters spend a lot of time moving into place for a final conflict or two or three. In the last few books, characters just move around for no real purpose.


I feel you. I started skipping whole parts of the books that had to do with nobody and nothing that struck me as the least bit important or interesting.

Klivian: If he just stopped wasting time with all the Dorne nonsense he would probably be done by now


Those would be the parts.
 
2013-03-15 06:34:46 PM  

LouisXIII: More boobs?


I think this is already the applied tactic for GOT walking. dead, trueblood, anytime the story tapers

also see homeland, dexter, tudors, etc cable or network slow story, boob injection
 
2013-03-15 06:35:49 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: ...it will turn into complete porn?


Game of Boners?
 
2013-03-15 06:36:24 PM  

ZeroCorpse: whizbangthedirtfarmer: ...it will turn into complete porn?

Game of Boners?


No, wait... Game of Moans.
 
2013-03-15 06:46:05 PM  
whatever gives me reason to milk my eel.
 
2013-03-15 06:53:12 PM  

Klivian: If he just stopped wasting time with all the DorneMeereen nonsense he would probably be done by now


*spoilers (though really, if you don't want spoilers why are you in a ASOIAF thread, you jackwagon)*

Daenerys Targaryen being stupid in far-off locales is what's annoying me. The Targaryens coming back to Westeros is one of the big events that we're leading up to for the series, and it's been delayed so that Daenerys can forget everything she learned about ruling and politics and f*ck up some city that I don't care about for an ENTIRE FREAKING BOOK. And then, for some reason, here's ANOTHER Targaryen who will invade instead.

The mysterious Eastern lands of ethnic minorities was fine when it was a place for Daenerys to hang out with Dothrakis and learn to be badass. As an extended part of the story it's really dragging stuff down and delaying resolution of the plot.
 
2013-03-15 06:59:09 PM  

ZeroCorpse: ZeroCorpse: whizbangthedirtfarmer: ...it will turn into complete porn?

Game of Boners?

No, wait... Game of Moans.


Rape of Moans
 
2013-03-15 07:00:03 PM  
Ten years from now?

Yeah, I don't think this is a problem.
 
2013-03-15 07:00:28 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: GRRM fixes the cable?


thatlooksugly.files.wordpress.com

Stupid hobbitses are fatuous
 
2013-03-15 07:01:48 PM  
I'm going to go with beating George R.R. Martin with a bag full of master locks until he catches up.
 
2013-03-15 07:04:10 PM  

dragonchild: The series badly needs to trade some fireworks for a bulldozer that gets shiat moving, if even at a plodding pace.


I would submit that Danaerys having a bonding moment with Drogon and Jon Snow's smoking wounds might be the sound of underbrush crackling as the bulldozer moves through it.
 
2013-03-15 07:15:29 PM  
 
2013-03-15 07:20:54 PM  

LemSkroob: Just make season 3 of Rome instead.


Or Combine the two.

/The adventures of Tyrion Lannister and Titus Pullo
 
2013-03-15 07:22:44 PM  

Donnchadha: OtherLittleGuy: GRRM fixes the cable?



Stupid hobbitses are fatuous


The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.
 
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