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(The Big Story)   U.S. last week: "We're not concerned about a nuclear threat from North Korea." U.S. this week: "Uhh, let's add some interceptors along the west coast. You know, just in case"   (bigstory.ap.org) divider line 199
    More: Scary, North Koreans, interceptors, U.S., North Korean ICBM, Vandenberg Air Force Base, Air Force bases, missile defense, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel  
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6932 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2013 at 4:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 03:35:57 PM
Huh. Well then.
 
2013-03-15 03:49:42 PM
I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.
 
2013-03-15 03:53:19 PM

kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.


While I don't disagree that it's more for show than anything else, their underground tests did not fizzle.
 
2013-03-15 03:53:37 PM
I'm not particularly worried that Best Korea is going to actually do something that stupid -- they know they'd get annihilated from all fronts (including China) if they actually launched something.

However, the US is probably smart not to get caught with its pants down in terms of defense. Give Best Korea the idea that launching something would be completely stupid AND do no actual damage.
 
2013-03-15 04:06:02 PM

kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.


I think there is zero chance they have a deployable warhead and I question whether they have a missile that could reach us even without a warhead.

That being said, it isn't completely impossible that they do.
 
2013-03-15 04:20:24 PM
Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.
 
2013-03-15 04:30:59 PM

GAT_00: kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.

I think there is zero chance they have a deployable warhead and I question whether they have a missile that could reach us even without a warhead.

That being said, it isn't completely impossible that they do.


Forget the US. What of Japan? Or SoKo?
 
2013-03-15 04:34:40 PM

kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.


They do have a really big trebuchet, bigger if you factor in their Photoshopping.
 
2013-03-15 04:47:04 PM
Sounds more like someone in the US needed another scoop from the pork barrel.
 
2013-03-15 04:56:19 PM

make me some tea: While I don't disagree that it's more for show than anything else, their underground tests did not fizzle.


No, they just proved North Korea has reached 1938, and can build a crude Teller-Ullam Triggered Device.

The NK test reached a yield of 5-7kT. For comparison, Trinity shot was 20kT.

GAT_00: I think there is zero chance they have a deployable warhead and I question whether they have a missile that could reach us even without a warhead.

That being said, it isn't completely impossible that they do.


The only active missile platforms in use right now by North Korea that could possibly deliver a nuclear payload are based on the SCUD B and D system, which has a range of ~300KM or so. The only thing Japan MIGHT have to worry about is the MRBM that they built off of the SCUD-B platform, the Rodong-1, which has a range of 900KM, but the accuracy (worse than that of the infamously inaccurate SCUD) and ability of the Rodong-1 is quesitonable in and of itsself.

The taepodong-1 and taepodong-2 ICBM platforms have failed, notoriously and hilariously, every time they have been launched in a military test.
 
2013-03-15 04:57:52 PM
I'd rather the military re-think their position than save face and do nothing.
 
2013-03-15 04:58:23 PM
www.nypost.com

"Whoa!  Did someone just say 'interceptions'?  Daddy likey!"
 
2013-03-15 04:59:25 PM
I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?
 
2013-03-15 05:01:19 PM
The Chinese would love to find someone else to do their first striking for them.

/on second thought, who would buy their melamine-laced dog food and milk?
 
2013-03-15 05:02:30 PM
Sounds like some senators figured out a way to get some pork under the guise of protecting the west coast from North Korea.
 
2013-03-15 05:02:58 PM
Ahh, North Korea, dominating Fark headlines is your real power.
 
2013-03-15 05:04:18 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


Ignoring the fact that North Korea doesn't have a viable nuclear warhead, or the fact that the North doesn't have a delivery platform that can reach the United States to begin with?
 
Skr
2013-03-15 05:04:52 PM
In this case I'd rather them fire one off at the U.S. and have it intercepted/crash into the ocean, than have them fire one off at the easier hit S. Korea or Japan.
 
2013-03-15 05:05:16 PM
Best Korea is like viagra for US Military.
 
2013-03-15 05:06:03 PM

hardinparamedic: No, they just proved North Korea has reached 1938, and can build a crude Teller-Ullam Triggered Device.

The NK test reached a yield of 5-7kT. For comparison, Trinity shot was 20kT.


While it's puny in comparison to what's out there, it's still plenty enough to fark some shiat up, though.
 
2013-03-15 05:06:50 PM
That clinches it for me... I'm not making my farking mortgage payment anymore, it's obviously armageddon.
 
2013-03-15 05:07:06 PM

make me some tea: While it's puny in comparison to what's out there, it's still plenty enough to fark some shiat up, though.


phillbarron.files.wordpress.com

You still have to have a way to get it somewhere, and to militarize the design.
 
2013-03-15 05:07:40 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


Really? That's the Friday afternoon troll? Ugh....
 
2013-03-15 05:08:16 PM

Skr: In this case I'd rather them fire one off at the U.S. and have it intercepted/crash into the ocean, than have them fire one off at the easier hit S. Korea or Japan.


That's what I was thinking. The more ocean a NorK missile crosses, the more likely it is to splash.
 
2013-03-15 05:09:05 PM

hardinparamedic: Ignoring the fact that North Korea doesn't have a viable nuclear warhead, or the fact that the North doesn't have a delivery platform that can reach the United States to begin with?


And if they don't have it right this minute, that must mean it is impossible they can ever get it in the future. Developing nukes must have been the exception to the rule. Your brilliant logic has convinced me.
 
2013-03-15 05:09:10 PM
1) You never say they got you scared. You're the White House, you stay positive (remember W and the corner)
2) Find the SOB that leaked this and throw him in a deep dark pit. (Giving weapon deployment or troop movements is treason)
 
2013-03-15 05:09:14 PM
totally digging their guidance systems
www.globalpost.com

/i just realized that i've eaten more north korean food than the north koreans.
 
2013-03-15 05:09:14 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-15 05:09:24 PM
Which is why the USAF is continuing their launch of SBIRS GEO 2 on Tuesday.
 
2013-03-15 05:09:35 PM
FTFA: Miller noted that last December, North Korea launched a satellite into space, demonstrating its mastery of some of the same technologies required for development of an intercontinental ballistic missile.

Mastery?  That's a bit of a stretch.  Chucking something into the air as hard as you can isn't the same as throwing the winning touchdown pass.
 
2013-03-15 05:10:35 PM
Zealous overreaction to something that's completely Kim Jong Un-related.
 
2013-03-15 05:10:55 PM
Considering how much money we spend on defense, why not take precautions?
 
2013-03-15 05:11:12 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


You're ignoring assholes? That is SO un-Republican.
 
2013-03-15 05:12:14 PM
I'm not particularly worried that Best Korea is going to actually do something that stupid -- they know they'd get annihilated from all fronts (including China) if they actually launched something.

Not so fast there...

Any retaliatory strike on North Korea by the US would be, in effect, a strike on China. It doesn't take a political strategist to see how that would get out of control PDQ.
 
2013-03-15 05:12:27 PM
I hope the various militaries around the world aren't like power companies are.

The last major venting--I believe it was when the meltdown at Chernobyl--lots of power companies around the world vented their systems. Hey, how you gonna prove it was us? It was the French reactor!

I'm wondering if one goes off...
 
2013-03-15 05:12:48 PM
We should beef up against North Korea. Their bulgogi is delicious.


www.trifood.com
 
2013-03-15 05:13:05 PM
Seems possible to me that the "we're not worried" and the "because we've got these here interceptors" could actually be part of the same sentence. I don't feel like this is worth an elevated heartbeat.
 
2013-03-15 05:13:39 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


Never ignore a liberal's asshole sir.
 
2013-03-15 05:13:47 PM
Lining the coast with beef is not going to help.
 
2013-03-15 05:14:28 PM
Can someone please send Dennis Rodman back there to help quell the tension some more?
 
2013-03-15 05:14:34 PM

Nadie_AZ: GAT_00: kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.

I think there is zero chance they have a deployable warhead and I question whether they have a missile that could reach us even without a warhead.

That being said, it isn't completely impossible that they do.

Forget the US. What of Japan? Or SoKo?


What about them? They have their own (American made) interceptors. They deployed them as recently as last December.

Besides. IIRC the US military presence isn't exactly... welcome, in Japan. Let them watch out for themselves.
 
2013-03-15 05:15:03 PM

mikaloyd: [i.imgur.com image 400x317]


I liked thermal damage, blast effects and ionizing radiation before they were cool.
 
2013-03-15 05:15:53 PM

vernonFL: We should beef up against North Korea. Their bulgogi is delicious.


[www.trifood.com image 271x223]


Not so much when it's made of poop-picked corn kernels and dust.
 
2013-03-15 05:16:34 PM

echomike23: /i just realized that i've eaten more north korean food than the north koreans.



In one sitting
 
2013-03-15 05:16:34 PM
the Secretary of Defense wetting his pants over a non-issue like this makes me embarrassed to be an American.
 
2013-03-15 05:16:54 PM

Donnchadha: I'm not particularly worried that Best Korea is going to actually do something that stupid -- they know they'd get annihilated from all fronts (including China) if they actually launched something.

However, the US is probably smart not to get caught with its pants down in terms of defense. Give Best Korea the idea that launching something would be completely stupid AND do no actual damage.


Kim Jong IL knew that. We don't know about Kim Jong UN.
 
2013-03-15 05:17:12 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: The Chinese would love to find someone else to do their first striking for them.

/on second thought, who would buy their melamine-laced dog food and milk?


Suppose China gave them a long range weapon, they send it our way, China. Says OMG, turns Best Korea into glass. China gets info on our defenses.

Tin foil hat off.....
 
2013-03-15 05:17:26 PM

vernonFL: We should beef up against North Korea. Their bulgogi is delicious.


What North Korean could ever afford bulgogi, save for the military and government elite? Even then, that's a stretch.
 
2013-03-15 05:17:49 PM
It's pretty clear that the North doesn't have a suitable warhead for deployment on an ICBM, nor do they likely have an ICBM that could reliably hit the western US. But, given the following:

--A crazy, near-suicidal despot has declared he will nuke the US.
--His country has demonstrated nuclear weapons.
--Said country has demonstrated rocket technology that makes reaching the US at least plausible, if unlikely.
--We have already sunk the money into developing and testing a long range intercepter....

Then I think it's reasonable to beef up those defenses just a bit to be on the safe side. If they decide to go for it and launch 3-4 missiles towards the west coast I don't want to be sitting around saying "you know, our intelligence says they don't have a nuclear warhead that will fit on that sucker, and it's probably going to crash anyway."
 
m00
2013-03-15 05:18:22 PM
I hope I bookmarked the fark thread where I called that this blatant scare-mongering will happen, to further justify the military industrial complex in the absence of any real military threats.
 
2013-03-15 05:19:02 PM

vernonFL: We should beef up against North Korea. Their bulgogi is delicious.


[www.trifood.com image 271x223]




Complete agreement.

At least once a week at Koren Garden....

Now I wants, I wants so bad
 
2013-03-15 05:19:40 PM
Maybe the US was invited, and did not just make some kind of unilateral decision. I mean, only a fool would think they could move their military around so close to China and Russia and a host of Muslim island nations without making sure everyone was on board with their plan (or at least informed of it). Also, this article doesn't do a very good job of explaining if the US will be cooperating with Chinese or other Pacific fleets/air forces. It makes it sound like the USA is the only nation with toy ducks in the bathtub. That just ain't so.
 
2013-03-15 05:20:03 PM
Hmm.  I am OK with this.
$1B seems pretty cheap for all that, considering the damage one nuke would do to, say, Los Angeles - even Fresno would have a property loss of more than $1B.

/and no one goes to Fresno any more.
 
2013-03-15 05:20:32 PM

ArtosRC: What North Korean could ever afford bulgogi, save for the military and government elite? Even then, that's a stretch.


LOL, yeah, this guy is not going hungry

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-03-15 05:20:45 PM

JeffDenver: And if they don't have it right this minute, that must mean it is impossible they can ever get it in the future. Developing nukes must have been the exception to the rule. Your brilliant logic has convinced me.


heahea.org

Your fear mongering and ability to place words in my mouth has convinced me that a country barely able to feed it's starving, mostly militarized population, and who have only managed to detonate - with some marked question if it was an actual nuclear device or not - something that the US did 20 years before it had a viable, accurate delivery mechanism for intercontinental ballistic missile warfare, and without the same technological research abilities that the Soviets or the United States had at the time is a threat to the United States.

Despite the fact that they have no ability to deliver such a weapon, which is not even in a form that can be used militarily, to the shores of the United States, or to the shores of Japan.

And despite the fact what missile systems they DO have are so inaccurate that they pose more of a danger to the North Koreans than ANYONE around them, and can't even reach Japan with conventional or even chemical weapons.

And, even ignoring ALL THAT, are capable of being intercepted with a 99.5% accuracy rate using Theater ABM systems that have been in service since 1985, and that are THEMSELVES derivatives of 1960s technology.

But yes. Somehow North Korea poses a massive threat to the United States, and that threat can only be countered by wasteful, pork barrel programs.
 
2013-03-15 05:22:20 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


March 18, 1999
WASHINGTON -- "Reacting to warnings that missiles from several emerging nations could soon be capable of hitting the United States, the Senate voted yesterday to build a national defense system as soon as the technology is developed

"The legislation, which the Senate approved 97-3, follows several unexpected missile launches by foreign nations, including a long-range ballistic missile tested by North Korea last August, and medium-range tests by Iran.  The fear is that those nations will soon have the capacity to fire rockets to the United States."

105th Senate:1997-1999(D)45(R) 55

Wait, you mean JeffDenver is talking out his ass?
No Way!
 
2013-03-15 05:23:17 PM

highendmighty: Hmm.  I am OK with this.
$1B seems pretty cheap for all that, considering the damage one nuke would do to, say, Los Angeles - even Fresno would have a property loss of more than $1B.


If it Fresno, it would be an improvement.
 
2013-03-15 05:23:39 PM

hardinparamedic: Your fear mongering and ability to place words in my mouth has convinced me that a country barely able to feed it's starving, mostly militarized pop...blah blah blah blah


You could have just said "OMG just relax, they probably won't do anything, they're too stupid to make missiles LOL".

It would have saved you a lot of typing.
 
2013-03-15 05:23:49 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: echomike23: /i just realized that i've eaten more north korean food than the north koreans.


In one sitting


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-15 05:26:01 PM

JeffDenver: You could have just said "OMG just relax, they probably won't do anything, they're too stupid to make missiles LOL".

It would have saved you a lot of typing.


Ah. I see you ignored the fact that you're blatantly lying, and ignored the fact that a wasteful program accomplished what had already been accomplished in 1985 with the deployment of the Patriot and AEGIS systems.

But yes. Keep FARKing that chicken. Boy, will you have us wrong when those 900km Rodong Missiles start splashing down in the middle of the pacific!

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-03-15 05:26:15 PM

kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.


Fizzled?  No.  North Korea just hates the Sea of Japan.
 
2013-03-15 05:26:54 PM
Any bets on how long it will take Best Korea to call this "a US agression?"
 
2013-03-15 05:26:55 PM

hardinparamedic: But yes. Somehow North Korea poses a massive threat to the United States, and that threat can only be countered by wasteful, pork barrel programs.


But the United States NEEDS an enemy.  If we don't have an enemy, we need to invent one.  And North Korea is an ideal candidate.  Americans don't know squat about NK, so the defense industry can fill the void nicely.  They can make up almost anything and a certain number of Americans will nod their bobbleheads in assent.
 
2013-03-15 05:27:21 PM
Imagine if they had oil

It amazes me that a nation can back out of the armistice and basically declare war and no matter how puny it gets ignored, Is china an active ally of them? other then communist ties will they go to war if actual fighting were to break out?
 
2013-03-15 05:27:41 PM

hardinparamedic: Ah. I see you ignored the fact that you're blatantly lying


Yes, no liberal has ever opposed national missile defense. I totally made that up just now. You caught me.
 
2013-03-15 05:28:24 PM
Realizing of course that most of that is staging for show, since a good portion of our missile shield defenses are uber-classified. If anyone actually believes they 100% stopped development in the late 90s, they are kidding themselves about the nature of military research.
 
2013-03-15 05:28:28 PM
Good thing they don't watch TV or they would already planning their delivery system around the Japanese Zeros

corktails.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-03-15 05:31:21 PM
We'll likely do an air strike in Best Korea, without any boots on the ground, to wipe out the nuclear facilities.
 
2013-03-15 05:31:27 PM
With the rate at which technology advances, the amount of resources North Korea has and the amount of crazy North Korea has - it's pretty hard to rule out anything.
 
2013-03-15 05:31:42 PM

hardinparamedic: make me some tea: While it's puny in comparison to what's out there, it's still plenty enough to fark some shiat up, though.



You still have to have a way to get it somewhere, and to militarize the design.


Oh sure, absolutely. What they've got--or what we THINK they've got anyway--is pretty much useless. They get concessions from powerful countries by bullying them with potentialities.
 
2013-03-15 05:32:30 PM

kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.


There MAY be a concern that NK wants to try a nuclear detonation in space to achieve continent-wide EMP devastation.  There was science back in the late 80's which showed that it would have a terrifying destructive range on modern infrastructure and tech.  Literally continent-wide.  It could take far longer to get the overall economy running again than we even have money for.

I don't know if that sort of threat assessment is valid.  It's rather "fantastic" energy even for a nuke.  But it could be that NK or Iran THINKS it'll work to that effect.  It may just destroy electronics across a single state or something, which would include business computers, hospitals, vehicles, plant management computers & hardware, etc, and cost trillions in replacement equipment and lost productivity.
 
2013-03-15 05:34:08 PM

JeffDenver: Yes, no liberal has ever opposed national missile defense. I totally made that up just now. You caught me.


I really don't care if they have or not, the point is irrelevant. I'm sure some strawman conservatives and strawman liberals have opposed everything under the sun at some point. The 105th Congress which voted to fund the Missile Defense system in 1999 was 45% Democrat and 55% Republican, and delivered a vote of 97-3.

A program which, even today, has not produced an effective and mass-deployable weapons system, despite costing over 30 Billion Dollars, and projected to greatly exceed it's budget before all is said and done.
 
2013-03-15 05:34:55 PM
The military which says the North Koreans do not have the ability for ICBM's - now are turning that around - who says russia or china didn't sell them the capabilities for a launch vehicle?

Lets look at the countries who are non-NPT countries (who give nuke secrets away):

India
Pakistan
North Korea

So who wants to guess which country gave little Kim his boom boom toys?
 
2013-03-15 05:35:12 PM

kindms: Sounds like some senators figured out a way to get some pork under the guise of protecting the west coast from North Korea.


This. Boeing needs a new pair of shoes.
 
2013-03-15 05:35:41 PM

cgraves67: Skr: In this case I'd rather them fire one off at the U.S. and have it intercepted/crash into the ocean, than have them fire one off at the easier hit S. Korea or Japan.

That's what I was thinking. The more ocean a NorK missile crosses, the more likely it is to splash.


Most likely will go in a near polar trajectory, thats why most of our landbased interceptors are in Alaska.
 
2013-03-15 05:36:12 PM

echomike23: totally digging their guidance systems
[www.globalpost.com image 670x450]

/i just realized that i've eaten more north korean food than the north koreans.


Is he using a magic wand?
 
2013-03-15 05:36:28 PM

Oznog: kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.

There MAY be a concern that NK wants to try a nuclear detonation in space to achieve continent-wide EMP devastation.  There was science back in the late 80's which showed that it would have a terrifying destructive range on modern infrastructure and tech.  Literally continent-wide.  It could take far longer to get the overall economy running again than we even have money for.

I don't know if that sort of threat assessment is valid.  It's rather "fantastic" energy even for a nuke.  But it could be that NK or Iran THINKS it'll work to that effect.  It may just destroy electronics across a single state or something, which would include business computers, hospitals, vehicles, plant management computers & hardware, etc, and cost trillions in replacement equipment and lost productivity.


I bet if it happened we'd hear about how the Democrats blocked Star Wars back in the 80s.
 
2013-03-15 05:37:04 PM
I think that we should setup some in japan and south Korean as well.  Just to cover our bases.
 
2013-03-15 05:42:56 PM
The only rocket they got with any real range is a liquid fueled giant based on 1960's tech. It takes like two weeks to setup using a prepared launch pad, and that is so obvious to overhead photorecon, the NK military might as well phone it's location to the US in advance.

What the US is afraid of, and rightly so, is some kind of "slap in the face" ship based or over water tactical missile. Like a Chinese Flying Dragon. I can see NK firing one or more of those just to be a pain in the ass.
 
2013-03-15 05:44:09 PM

Ambivalence: Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.


It's a billion dollars, more or less.
 
2013-03-15 05:45:05 PM
media.ft.com

Well I guess it's technically possible they could hit Alaska but so far their rockets act like torpedoes.
 
2013-03-15 05:45:53 PM
It's ok though... if you get nuked and survive...at least you have an HOA to keep your nuclear sub-waste property value up.
 
2013-03-15 05:48:15 PM

make me some tea: hardinparamedic: No, they just proved North Korea has reached 1938, and can build a crude Teller-Ullam Triggered Device.

The NK test reached a yield of 5-7kT. For comparison, Trinity shot was 20kT.

While it's puny in comparison to what's out there, it's still plenty enough to fark some shiat up, though.


It would be the last thing Best Korea ever does.
 
2013-03-15 05:48:50 PM
Even the NK regime are not THAT stupid. can you IMAGINE what the US would do if a foreign power actually launched an outright military strike at US soil? Look what you did to afghanistan when they just allowed the farkers to sit in their territory..

There is a reason attacks on major nations are all done by non-state terrorist groups you know..
 
2013-03-15 05:52:00 PM
vernonFL: LOL, yeah, this guy is not going hungry

Makes me nostalgic for South Korea. Above all, I pine for the street peddler foods. Oh, God, the fried corn was to die for. Almost literally, since the health inspectors obviously didn't pay much mind to them.
 
2013-03-15 05:52:28 PM

moefuggenbrew: It's ok though... if you get nuked and survive...at least you have an HOA to keep your nuclear sub-waste property value up.


better keep that lawn up to snuff. oh it was incinerated in the nuclear blast and nothing will ever grow there again? nice try. fined.
 
2013-03-15 05:55:13 PM

ArtosRC: Makes me nostalgic for South Korea. Above all, I pine for the street peddler foods. Oh, God, the fried corn was to die for. Almost literally, since the health inspectors obviously didn't pay much mind to them.


If you're dumb enough to stand next to the street to eat odds are the traffic will kill you, no need to wait for the food to end you.

These are the stories my friend that serviced 2 years over there tells me.
 
2013-03-15 05:55:26 PM

dennysgod: [media.ft.com image 418x452]

Well I guess it's technically possible they could hit Alaska but so far their rockets act like torpedoes.


Just a little further and they can take out LA.
We can only hope.
 
2013-03-15 05:56:23 PM
Why wait to intercept?  Bomb them on the launch pad before they take off.  Costs much less, scares them more.  Why spend billions when you don't need to?  All we need is balls.  Lets announce our bombing plans right away.

binaryapi.ap.org
 
2013-03-15 06:00:22 PM
Are those the last of the V8 Interceptors?
 
2013-03-15 06:01:09 PM

I_C_Weener: Oznog: kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.

There MAY be a concern that NK wants to try a nuclear detonation in space to achieve continent-wide EMP devastation.  There was science back in the late 80's which showed that it would have a terrifying destructive range on modern infrastructure and tech.  Literally continent-wide.  It could take far longer to get the overall economy running again than we even have money for.

I don't know if that sort of threat assessment is valid.  It's rather "fantastic" energy even for a nuke.  But it could be that NK or Iran THINKS it'll work to that effect.  It may just destroy electronics across a single state or something, which would include business computers, hospitals, vehicles, plant management computers & hardware, etc, and cost trillions in replacement equipment and lost productivity.

I bet if it happened we'd hear about how the Democrats blocked Star Wars back in the 80s.


We're all so inter-connected economically these days, that the DPRK deciding to just take it out on Seoul or Tokyo with a nuke would be an economic tsunami against our economy (coupled with the effect on the market when the US military rushes in)
 
2013-03-15 06:03:54 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


Unpossible! Sarah Palin said Best Korea are our allies!
 
2013-03-15 06:06:04 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


You didn't ignore our assholes in all those mens rooms though didja?
 
2013-03-15 06:06:40 PM

BravadoGT: We're all so inter-connected economically these days, that the DPRK deciding to just take it out on Seoul or Tokyo with a nuke would be an economic tsunami against our economy (coupled with the effect on the market when the US military rushes in)


If they did something, that is what I'd expect.  Then they'd PS or cut and paste from some movie showing the US being hit by something.
 
2013-03-15 06:08:35 PM
So... Fail to increase defense in Benghazi, due to possibility of threat costing ones of lives = Scandal, but increasing defense in the US due to the off chance that NK lobs a missile this way, possibly costing hundreds of thousands of lives = scandal?

While I doubt that NK can target a missile this way, I don't put it past them to try and get one over here - they may hit LA, they may hit meteor crater - they may be able to at least get the distance to do some damage.
 
2013-03-15 06:09:36 PM

LessO2: We'll likely do an air strike in Best Korea, without any boots on the ground, to wipe out the nuclear facilities.


Ok. You just lost your Seoul.
 
2013-03-15 06:10:39 PM

Evil High Priest: You just lost your Seoul.


Except for the fact that most of the Artillery on the DMZ can't even reach Seoul, yeah.
 
2013-03-15 06:10:46 PM
You pretty much have to follow an enemy nuclear attack with one of your own or else you face a credibility problem.   Best Korea isn't going to do anything...rash.
 
2013-03-15 06:11:42 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


You conservatives really need to make up your minds. Are you gonna biatch about govt. spending or applaud it? Complain about govt. stockpiling ammo or stockpile it yourself?
Why not just admit the fact that you are just filled with hate and fear, take a Valium and enjoy this short life we all have?
You listening to Rush and emulating Chicken Little ain't gonna make a damn bit of dIfference.
 
2013-03-15 06:11:45 PM
Why do they need a missile? Just put it on a freighter and sail the damn thing right into San Francisco. Sure you might not get the best position from the bay but it's a nuclear weapon, close counts.
 
2013-03-15 06:13:10 PM
tonguedepressor:You didn't ignore our assholes in all those mens rooms though didja?

I couldn't. Your dad had such a nice one. He has a talented mouth too. Say hi to him for me.
 
2013-03-15 06:15:36 PM

MorteDiem: You conservatives really need to make up your minds. Are you gonna biatch about govt. spending or applaud it? Complain about govt. stockpiling ammo or stockpile it yourself?Why not just admit the fact that you are just filled with hate and fear, take a Valium and enjoy this short life we all have?


I am filled with hate and fear of oppressive non-democracies. Blowing them up feels better than taking drugs.

And military spending is the one type of spending I don't have a problem with. There is no issue more important that Defense.
 
2013-03-15 06:16:54 PM

JeffDenver: I am filled with hate and fear of oppressive non-democracies. Blowing them up feels better than taking drugs.

And military spending is the one type of spending I don't have a problem with. There is no issue more important that Defense.


cdn.ebaumsworld.com 

Let's play the feud! Number one answer on the board, among 100 people surveyed, Troll or Complete Idiot!
 
2013-03-15 06:19:41 PM

Oznog: kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.

There MAY be a concern that NK wants to try a nuclear detonation in space to achieve continent-wide EMP devastation.  There was science back in the late 80's which showed that it would have a terrifying destructive range on modern infrastructure and tech.  Literally continent-wide.  It could take far longer to get the overall economy running again than we even have money for.

I don't know if that sort of threat assessment is valid.  It's rather "fantastic" energy even for a nuke.  But it could be that NK or Iran THINKS it'll work to that effect.  It may just destroy electronics across a single state or something, which would include business computers, hospitals, vehicles, plant management computers & hardware, etc, and cost trillions in replacement equipment and lost productivity.


That's really interesting.  I've never thought of a nuke being used for that sort of a hit; always just figured on the terrestrial mushroom death-cloud thing.  Would there also be radioactive fall-out to create mayhem too?  Not taking the piss - btw - I'm a technological idiot:)
 
2013-03-15 06:20:26 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Why do they need a missile? Just put it on a freighter and sail the damn thing right into San Francisco. Sure you might not get the best position from the bay but it's a nuclear weapon, close counts.


Fark you for continuing to spread this stupid meme. The only thing stupider than thinking they can just load it on a boat and sail it into San Francisco is thinking they can hide it up their asshole and blow it up during a white house tour.
 
2013-03-15 06:20:34 PM

hardinparamedic: Evil High Priest: You just lost your Seoul.

Except for the fact that most of the Artillery on the DMZ can't even reach Seoul, yeah.


True...but some can.
 
2013-03-15 06:20:37 PM
Good idea; blowin' money.

/Now blow me.
//It'll only cost you 500 million.
 
2013-03-15 06:20:42 PM
It's also worth noting that these missiles are not just another Patriot battery being parked at a base. It will take years to get these online. Is it that far-fetched that the NK's could have a missile capable of reaching California or Alaska reliably in 3-4 years?

I get the whole argument that this is just another made up enemy of the US to feed the defense contractors. I know they're still a backwards nation far from "mastering" rocket technology or nuke minaturization. But they're not exactly helping their own cause here by routinely threatening to rain destruction upon the US. I don't think they're an existential threat to the US, but the government is absolutely a threat and they are, to put it simply, a clear and defined enemy of the USA. I have NO problem in the grand scheme of defense spending to put a billion dollars on a few extra interceptors to defend against these guys. If that means we can ignore their sabre-rattling a little easier than it's money well spent.
 
2013-03-15 06:26:02 PM

ACunningPlan: Oznog: kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.

There MAY be a concern that NK wants to try a nuclear detonation in space to achieve continent-wide EMP devastation.  There was science back in the late 80's which showed that it would have a terrifying destructive range on modern infrastructure and tech.  Literally continent-wide.  It could take far longer to get the overall economy running again than we even have money for.

I don't know if that sort of threat assessment is valid.  It's rather "fantastic" energy even for a nuke.  But it could be that NK or Iran THINKS it'll work to that effect.  It may just destroy electronics across a single state or something, which would include business computers, hospitals, vehicles, plant management computers & hardware, etc, and cost trillions in replacement equipment and lost productivity.

That's really interesting.  I've never thought of a nuke being used for that sort of a hit; always just figured on the terrestrial mushroom death-cloud thing.  Would there also be radioactive fall-out to create mayhem too?  Not taking the piss - btw - I'm a technological idiot:)


In theory, nuclear weapons could be air detonated pretty high up to cause widespread EMP.  However, it would have to be VERY high up to cripple the entire US, AND be very powerful.  If that happened, fallout would be the least of your worries.  You should more of try to figure out how to keep the food in your fridge from going bad, and where your next shipment is coming from.  That's assuming EMP is as deadly to electronics as theorized...it might turn out to be so attenuated that only a few types of device are affected enough to kill them.
 
2013-03-15 06:28:56 PM

Hrist: ACunningPlan: Oznog: kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.

There MAY be a concern that NK wants to try a nuclear detonation in space to achieve continent-wide EMP devastation.  There was science back in the late 80's which showed that it would have a terrifying destructive range on modern infrastructure and tech.  Literally continent-wide.  It could take far longer to get the overall economy running again than we even have money for.

I don't know if that sort of threat assessment is valid.  It's rather "fantastic" energy even for a nuke.  But it could be that NK or Iran THINKS it'll work to that effect.  It may just destroy electronics across a single state or something, which would include business computers, hospitals, vehicles, plant management computers & hardware, etc, and cost trillions in replacement equipment and lost productivity.

That's really interesting.  I've never thought of a nuke being used for that sort of a hit; always just figured on the terrestrial mushroom death-cloud thing.  Would there also be radioactive fall-out to create mayhem too?  Not taking the piss - btw - I'm a technological idiot:)

In theory, nuclear weapons could be air detonated pretty high up to cause widespread EMP.  However, it would have to be VERY high up to cripple the entire US, AND be very powerful.  If that happened, fallout would be the least of your worries.  You should more of try to figure out how to keep the food in your fridge from going bad, and where your next shipment is coming from.  That's assuming EMP is as deadly to electronics as theorized...it might turn out to be so attenuated that only a few types of device are affected enough to kill them.


It doesn't matter, the kind of pants-shiatting about EMP and fallout mostly comes from people afraid to microwave food lest it be tainted by radiation.
 
2013-03-15 06:29:05 PM

que.guero: I'm not particularly worried that Best Korea is going to actually do something that stupid -- they know they'd get annihilated from all fronts (including China) if they actually launched something.

Not so fast there...

Any retaliatory strike on North Korea by the US would be, in effect, a strike on China. It doesn't take a political strategist to see how that would get out of control PDQ.


Bullsh*t.

If NorK nuked NYork, China'd just nyuk at NorK when they yelled "Onoes!"

We'd probably not use nukes in retaliation, partly because of China, partly because S Korea is right farking there, but I doubt China would defend that kind of stupidity. Now if the NorKs brought us into a conflict through other means besides attacking US with ballistic missiles--that's a whole different egg.
 
2013-03-15 06:29:23 PM

JeffDenver: tonguedepressor:You didn't ignore our assholes in all those mens rooms though didja?

I couldn't. Your dad had such a nice one. He has a talented mouth too. Say hi to him for me.


Doesn't quite carry the weight of "your Mom" quips.

Of course not many can carry the weight of your mom.
 
2013-03-15 06:31:45 PM
NK is a convenient cover for another layer of defense against Russia and China
 
2013-03-15 06:34:33 PM

God-is-a-Taco: NK is a convenient cover for another layer of defense against Russia and China


If so, that can only be a good thing.
 
2013-03-15 06:40:50 PM
Wow, so only $1 billion dollars for 14 missiles?  "Anti-missile batteries" that have never once been proven to work in actual reality?

They've only ever been proven to work in very very few tests, and every single one of those tests was gamed (they already knew the trajectory of the missile they were shooting down beforehand).

Betcha North Korea is tickled pink to see the US, mired in a seemingly unending recession, blowing a billion bucks on pie-in-the-sky defense systems.  I know I find it amusing.

/North Korea would never launch a missile at the USA because it would mean their immediate and utter destruction like 30 minutes later.
//crazy the rulers of North Korea might be, but not suicidal
 
2013-03-15 06:44:06 PM
ACunningPlan:
That's really interesting.  I've never thought of a nuke being used for that sort of a hit; always just figured on the terrestrial mushroom death-cloud thing.  Would there also be radioactive fall-out to create mayhem too?  Not taking the piss - btw - I'm a technological idiot:)

Yes. It's bad news.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Bravo
 
2013-03-15 06:46:06 PM
I think it's called erring on the side of caution, and I, for one, am all for it.

even if NK poses no threat now, maybe they will in 5-10 years, so definitely doesn't hurt to start beefing up our defenses just in case
 
2013-03-15 06:47:23 PM

jakomo002: /North Korea would never launch a missile at the USA because it would mean their immediate and utter destruction like 30 minutes later.


And as we all know, insane dictators are known for their rational and well thought out decisions.
 
2013-03-15 06:49:01 PM

JeffDenver: God-is-a-Taco: NK is a convenient cover for another layer of defense against Russia and China

If so, that can only be a good thing.


I don't follow military stuff that well, so I can't say for sure.
I just remember that countries get mad when others work against MAD.
Heh.  Mad about MAD. I'm pretty good.
 
2013-03-15 06:50:58 PM

God-is-a-Taco: ACunningPlan:
That's really interesting.  I've never thought of a nuke being used for that sort of a hit; always just figured on the terrestrial mushroom death-cloud thing.  Would there also be radioactive fall-out to create mayhem too?  Not taking the piss - btw - I'm a technological idiot:)

Yes. It's bad news.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Bravo


I like the accompanying photo too.  In the lower left corner there is a DANGER: No Smoking sign.  Like what's the worst that could happen?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Castle_Bravo_Shrimp_Device_002.jpg
 
2013-03-15 06:52:32 PM
The biggest concern the White House has about North Korea is on deciding which course of action will make the Republicans look worse.
 
2013-03-15 06:56:08 PM

God-is-a-Taco: ACunningPlan:
That's really interesting.  I've never thought of a nuke being used for that sort of a hit; always just figured on the terrestrial mushroom death-cloud thing.  Would there also be radioactive fall-out to create mayhem too?  Not taking the piss - btw - I'm a technological idiot:)

Yes. It's bad news.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Bravo


Castle bravo wouldn't apply, though - all of the NK nukes are in the kiloton arrange.  We do have to worry about EMP, but only at the level of our earliest high-altitude testing. Downside: that was a time of transisters, which are a lot more resilient in terms of mitigating EMP damage
 
2013-03-15 06:57:23 PM

ACunningPlan: Oznog: kmmontandon: I'm not even remotely sold on the notion that North Korea has an ICBM deployable warhead.

Three possibly fizzled underground tests aren't real convincing.

So I'm guessing this is more for public consumption than anything practical.

There MAY be a concern that NK wants to try a nuclear detonation in space to achieve continent-wide EMP devastation.  There was science back in the late 80's which showed that it would have a terrifying destructive range on modern infrastructure and tech.  Literally continent-wide.  It could take far longer to get the overall economy running again than we even have money for.

I don't know if that sort of threat assessment is valid.  It's rather "fantastic" energy even for a nuke.  But it could be that NK or Iran THINKS it'll work to that effect.  It may just destroy electronics across a single state or something, which would include business computers, hospitals, vehicles, plant management computers & hardware, etc, and cost trillions in replacement equipment and lost productivity.

That's really interesting.  I've never thought of a nuke being used for that sort of a hit; always just figured on the terrestrial mushroom death-cloud thing.  Would there also be radioactive fall-out to create mayhem too?  Not taking the piss - btw - I'm a technological idiot:)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

For a continent-wide effect, it'd have to be 400km, not just "high".  But it can be fairly simple, a simple pure-fission device is more effective than the larger thermonuclear bombs.

No direction fatalities or injuries or even terrestrial fallout.  It creates an artificial radiation belt and can damage satellites.

The conceivable effects such a thing would have on the economy and order could be staggering.  A business without its servers can't do much, and replacement parts in-stock would be similarly affected (the Matrix thing about it being ok if they're turned off is fiction).  Mfg of NEW replacement parts would be slow in coming, because suddenly there's 100x their mfg volume, but mfg facilities- or even mfg of one necessary part- may be similarly affected.  And  on top of that nobody's doing much business and has no income, it's unclear if we can even mfg and transport food and fuel or will even have electricity.  Easy to list plenty of graphic problems where everything breaks down into riots, the economy tanks, timely reconstruction proves beyond our capacity to afford it and USA basically becomes an undeveloped nation for many decades.
 
2013-03-15 06:57:45 PM

JeffDenver: jakomo002: /North Korea would never launch a missile at the USA because it would mean their immediate and utter destruction like 30 minutes later.

And as we all know, insane dictators are known for their rational and well thought out decisions.


I can only think of 8 or ten insane dictators who have committed suicide by attacking the US. What's your list?
 
2013-03-15 06:59:16 PM

MorteDiem: JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?

You conservatives really need to make up your minds. Are you gonna biatch about govt. spending or applaud it?


Military spending is allowed in the Constitution.  Most other things the upon which the government spends money are not.  THAT is the problem most teabaggers have.

At least get straight why you hate conservatives.  Hating people for the wrong reasons makes you bigoted AND stupid.
 
2013-03-15 07:00:12 PM

tinyarena: Like what's the worst that could happen?


You do know how welding works, right?

The last thing you need is a fireball full of conventional explosives, lithium salts, and plutonium or uranium.
 
2013-03-15 07:00:37 PM

God-is-a-Taco: I just remember that countries get mad when others work against MAD.


The problem with MAD is that you have to assume the other side is rational enough not to risk destroying themselves just to destroy you. I don't have the same faith in North Korea and Iran's rationality that a lot of people on here seem to have.

If the other guy thinks he can get away with it, or thinks he will be rewarded in the afterlife for killing you, MAD suddenly doesn't work very well.
 
2013-03-15 07:02:11 PM

Evil High Priest: I can only think of 8 or ten insane dictators who have committed suicide by attacking the US. What's your list?


8 or 10 isn't enough?
 
2013-03-15 07:04:02 PM

Donnchadha: I'm not particularly worried that Best Korea is going to actually do something that stupid -- they know they'd get annihilated from all fronts (including China) if they actually launched something.

However, the US is probably smart not to get caught with its pants down in terms of defense. Give Best Korea the idea that launching something would be completely stupid AND do no actual damage.


Mostly this. Best Korea could probably not do any nuclear damage (except to themselves). However, it would be better not to be unprepared when they try, and ALSO send half a million starving fanatical soldiers swarming across or under the DMZ with instructions to kill and eat everything they find. It would also be better to reassure South Korea and Japan that if Kim Jong-Un has delusions of grandeur that the US is prepared ahead of time so they (especially So. Korea, which has more to lose in the short term) don't have to panic when the saber rattles get especially loud.

Nuclear threat, no. Military threat, yes, definitely. No reason not to preempt that if we can.
 
2013-03-15 07:10:36 PM
Preemption, missile defense, WMD threats... Sure is sounding 2003-ish in here.

/too bad we couldn't have been consistent in our foreign policy when it mattered.
/could've bombed this regime back when it started farking around with nukes.
 
2013-03-15 07:10:54 PM
There is no bullchit like military grade bullchit.
I wonder what we pay NK for the bullchit threats that we so nicely advertise in the media to scaremonger force feed the military budget.
 
2013-03-15 07:13:09 PM

way south: Preemption, missile defense, WMD threats... Sure is sounding 2003-ish in here.
/too bad we couldn't have been consistent in our foreign policy when it mattered.
/could've bombed this regime back when it started farking around with nukes.


You almost sound like you are suggesting nation building. I sure hope not. The liberal harpies in this thread will tear you limb from limb for that.
 
2013-03-15 07:14:14 PM
Did the president vote for or against missile defense when he was a senator?
 
2013-03-15 07:15:36 PM

dennysgod: [media.ft.com image 418x452]

Well I guess it's technically possible they could hit Alaska but so far their rockets act like torpedoes.


I read through my homeowner's insurance policy a while back.  Interestingly, there is a clause in there that states my house is not covered if it is damaged/destroyed by a nuclear event, whether accidental or intentional.

While I am not concerned at all by Best Korea's sabre rattling at the moment, I am glad that some of the missile defense we do have (albeit with questionable effectiveness) is already installed here in Alaska.
 
2013-03-15 07:18:03 PM

JeffDenver: way south: Preemption, missile defense, WMD threats... Sure is sounding 2003-ish in here.
/too bad we couldn't have been consistent in our foreign policy when it mattered.
/could've bombed this regime back when it started farking around with nukes.

You almost sound like you are suggesting nation building. I sure hope not. The liberal harpies in this thread will tear you limb from limb for that.


Yeah, it's worked so well for us too, that nation building. Look at the bastions of freedom and democracy we have created.

Oh, right, it was basically pissing money away into the desert and free giveaways to GOP run companies.
 
2013-03-15 07:20:26 PM
25.media.tumblr.com


"Relax, it's North Korea--the nation state equivalent of the short bus."
 
2013-03-15 07:21:10 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: The Chinese would love to find someone else to do their first striking for them.

/on second thought, who would buy their melamine-laced dog food and milk?


. . .and this is why actual war with China is unlikely.

They've spent the last 20 years transitioning from Communist to Authoritarian Capitolist that is Communist in name only.
The prosperity this has brought them has helped keep society stable and calm, preventing another Tienanmen Square incident or any real threat to the rule of the Party.

They don't want anything that will upset the applecart, internally or externally.  Internally that means any threat to the rule of the Chinese Communist Party, by keeping the people reasonably happy.  Externally that means any significant change in foriegn relations that could endanger internal stability.

You can bet a war with the US, or NK going to war with the US and using nuclear weapons, is going to hit China, and hard.  They can't keep their people happy without somebody to sell their cheap crap to.
 
2013-03-15 07:22:48 PM
Hrist:, kmmontandon: neongoats, God-is-a-Taco, Somaticasual,Oznog:

Thanks ever so much:)  I hadn't a clue it was even a consideration - theoretical or otherwise.
 
2013-03-15 07:26:35 PM

JeffDenver: Evil High Priest: I can only think of 8 or ten insane dictators who have committed suicide by attacking the US. What's your list?

8 or 10 isn't enough?


I just wanted to see if you have the same ones on your list. Can you rattle off a few?
 
2013-03-15 07:26:50 PM
What if the satellite they threw up in space has ICBMs?.
 
2013-03-15 07:27:40 PM

Evil High Priest: JeffDenver: jakomo002: /North Korea would never launch a missile at the USA because it would mean their immediate and utter destruction like 30 minutes later.

And as we all know, insane dictators are known for their rational and well thought out decisions.

I can only think of 8 or ten insane dictators who have committed suicide by attacking the US. What's your list?


That's 6 or 8 more than I can think of. Who else do you know of?
 
2013-03-15 07:28:16 PM

MooseKiller: dennysgod: [media.ft.com image 418x452]

Well I guess it's technically possible they could hit Alaska but so far their rockets act like torpedoes.

I read through my homeowner's insurance policy a while back.  Interestingly, there is a clause in there that states my house is not covered if it is damaged/destroyed by a nuclear event, whether accidental or intentional.

While I am not concerned at all by Best Korea's sabre rattling at the moment, I am glad that some of the missile defense we do have (albeit with questionable effectiveness) is already installed here in Alaska.


It's powered by the combined might of Sarah Palin and Lisa Ann.

/I trust more in Lisa Ann, though
 
2013-03-15 07:30:28 PM

CygnusDarius: What if the satellite they threw up in space has ICBMs?.


Lol. Holy shiat, that would be a big satellite. Did they launch this enormous monster on a nuclear powered rocket that shiats a-bombs for propulsion. Because that's what you would need to do to launch something that big.
 
2013-03-15 07:32:56 PM

neongoats: CygnusDarius: What if the satellite they threw up in space has ICBMs?.

Lol. Holy shiat, that would be a big satellite. Did they launch this enormous monster on a nuclear powered rocket that shiats a-bombs for propulsion. Because that's what you would need to do to launch something that big.


Well, I was thinking of the movie Space Cowboys, but then again, it's a movie. So yeah, America is probably safe from Best Korea.

South Korea and Japan, however.
 
2013-03-15 07:43:40 PM

JeffDenver: way south: Preemption, missile defense, WMD threats... Sure is sounding 2003-ish in here.
/too bad we couldn't have been consistent in our foreign policy when it mattered.
/could've bombed this regime back when it started farking around with nukes.

You almost sound like you are suggesting nation building. I sure hope not. The liberal harpies in this thread will tear you limb from limb for that.




I was more suggesting nation de-building, in a timely limited fashion of course.

/a stitch in time...
 
2013-03-15 07:45:02 PM
A big show for the bigwigs in North Korea.

It does make you wonder what would have happened if the assassination had been successful.
 
2013-03-15 07:47:04 PM

Oznog: For a continent-wide effect, it'd have to be 400km, not just "high".


So about 100km lower than the the satellite they put up last year, which thanks to its polar orbit has been making regular passes over every part of the planet since then. I don't think the height's going to be a problem, and you don't need pin-point accuracy for a continent-wide EMP burst.
 
2013-03-15 07:48:25 PM

JeffDenver: You almost sound like you are suggesting nation building. I sure hope not. The liberal harpies in this thread will tear you limb from limb for that.


The North Korean regime's crimes against humanity are innumerable.
I think most people would support wiping its rulers and military leaders away in one stroke if it was remotely possible. That is, if China didn't give a damn and if they didn't have thousands of outdated mortars pointed south.
 
2013-03-15 08:12:26 PM

tomcatadam: JeffDenver: You almost sound like you are suggesting nation building. I sure hope not. The liberal harpies in this thread will tear you limb from limb for that.

The North Korean regime's crimes against humanity are innumerable.
I think most people would support wiping its rulers and military leaders away in one stroke if it was remotely possible. That is, if China didn't give a damn and if they didn't have thousands of outdated mortars pointed south.


Which begs the questions, what the fark does China gain by having North Korea as their biatch? Does North Korea have any resource in abundance that only China can get?.
 
2013-03-15 08:22:46 PM

CygnusDarius: Which begs the questions, what the fark does China gain by having North Korea as their biatch?


Options.
 
2013-03-15 08:29:27 PM

doglover: CygnusDarius: Which begs the questions, what the fark does China gain by having North Korea as their biatch?

Options.


Options for what?.
 
2013-03-15 08:31:19 PM

JeffDenver: I like how all the liberals have finally STFU about missile defense. It's a good thing we ignored your assholes and funded it anyway eh?


www.vibrant.com

www.cpa.org.au
 
2013-03-15 08:43:37 PM

hardinparamedic: JeffDenver: Yes, no liberal has ever opposed national missile defense. I totally made that up just now. You caught me.

I really don't care if they have or not, the point is irrelevant. I'm sure some strawman conservatives and strawman liberals have opposed everything under the sun at some point. The 105th Congress which voted to fund the Missile Defense system in 1999 was 45% Democrat and 55% Republican, and delivered a vote of 97-3.

A program which, even today, has not produced an effective and mass-deployable weapons system, despite costing over 30 Billion Dollars, and projected to greatly exceed it's budget before all is said and done.


It's a good thing "liberal" and Democrat are not synonymous and he said "liberal".

The problem now is that the internet won't let arguments disappear. When NMD was scrapped when Obama took office, self-described liberals cheered.

Fark thread

Another Fark thread

One dealing with NK and missiles
 
2013-03-15 08:44:03 PM

dennysgod: [media.ft.com image 418x452]

Well I guess it's technically possible they could hit Alaska but so far their rockets act like torpedoes.


Depends if Sarah Palin can see the rocket from her house.

/I sense win-win!
 
2013-03-15 08:45:45 PM

neongoats: To The Escape Zeppelin!: Why do they need a missile? Just put it on a freighter and sail the damn thing right into San Francisco. Sure you might not get the best position from the bay but it's a nuclear weapon, close counts.

Fark you for continuing to spread this stupid meme. The only thing stupider than thinking they can just load it on a boat and sail it into San Francisco is thinking they can hide it up their asshole and blow it up during a white house tour.


I'd be interested in what kind of safeguards exist to prevent this, assuming the container left from somewhere other than NK of course. Most cargo inspection happens onshore doesn't it? That's a little late.

/Waiting for the TSA to ruin boating based on this idea. Facts won't stop them.
 
2013-03-15 08:52:41 PM
We wouldn't want the smoking gun to be in the form of a mushroom cloud, so why don't we take a few hundred billion $ out of our vast household surplus that was not needed for the highly successful (and under budget, I might add) F35, F22, V22 and EFV programs, to name a few.
Surely, we must do everything in our power to stop hundreds, if not thousands of North Korean precision ICBMs from hitting the U.S. mainland.
After all, Kim Jong Un was seen with Muammar Gaddafi in Tora Bora, going over the final details of the bomb schematics, as shown by Bibi Natanyoohoo at the UN not too long ago.

/If you're not with us, you're with the turrerrists
//in that case, a drone strike might be imminent
 
2013-03-15 08:55:09 PM

Mrbogey: The problem now is that the internet won't let arguments disappear. When NMD was scrapped when Obama took office, self-described liberals cheered.


The problem was that the NMD program was a prime example of wasteful spending. The system had not evolved, period, beyond gamed launches and intercepts, even when they were gamed failed approximately 30-40% of the time. Even when the system had not evolved, the funding and waste continued into the program. On the other hand, you have systems like SM-3/AEGIS which have the theoretical capability of intercepting ICBMs in the terminal phase, but have never been explored beyond theory.

We can create theater ABM systems which protect our troops and civilians, for far cheaper, using existing technology, than we can using that same existing technology to do the same for ICBM interception? This is what I'm expected to believe as a taxpayer?

But, ironically, we can defund NASA and the military space programs at the same time. SMH, America.
 
2013-03-15 09:14:55 PM

CygnusDarius: doglover: CygnusDarius: Which begs the questions, what the fark does China gain by having North Korea as their biatch?

Options.

Options for what?.


They have control of the Korean peninsula via diplomacy with NK. They can start a war there at any time. They can make peace there at any time. They can use it as a springboard or a smokescreen.

Look at it like this: the world is a house. China has a great big attack dog in the room next door that will bite everyone if it's let loose. A dog is fairly easy to put down with a gun, and most people in this metaphorical house have those. However, it's a small house and it's going to be a bloody and traumatic night if that dog is let out of the room. So China takes care of the dog and uses her as leverage against people who want the dog to stop barking and trying to bite people.
 
2013-03-15 09:20:23 PM
All it takes is:

One working bomb
One working missile
One day that no one is paying attention.

Blame China for this mess.
 
2013-03-15 09:20:51 PM
The real danger is North Korea trading nuclear material on the black market. You don't need a missle to glass a major city.

Watch Countdown To Zero to see how easy it would be for terrorists to build a nuclear device and smuggle it into a major city. Scary stuff.
 
2013-03-15 09:27:01 PM
No way NK poses a threat right now.

But it's not like they wave a  wand and these missile sites are up and running. By the time we have these units up and operational we will likely be facing a more imminent threat from them.

It's anyones guess if it amounts to a real threat, even at that point, but that's not a gamble worth making.

drwiki: /Waiting for the TSA to ruin boating based on this idea. Facts won't stop them.


The reason we have such abysmal security regarding our ports is because there really isn't a feasible way to check everything without grinding our ports (and consequently our economy) to a complete stall.

Facts do stop them, quite often actually.
 
2013-03-15 09:30:58 PM
Dammit, I wanted to live in Fallout 3/NV, not Farrowt Tlee.
 
2013-03-15 09:43:50 PM

MurphyMurphy: The reason we have such abysmal security regarding our ports is because there really isn't a feasible way to check everything without grinding our ports (and consequently our economy) to a complete stall.

Facts do stop them, quite often actually.


Not really, no. It's  hard to hide a device like North Korea has the technology for. Those devices are crude, require a lot of shielding, and put off a lot of waste decay. The Department of Energy NEST teams have been doing nuclear threat detection and response for the past few decades now, and the US has drones that can scan large areas for radioactive material and nuclear devices.
 
2013-03-15 10:08:40 PM

real_headhoncho: All it takes is:

One working bomb
One working missile
One day that no one is paying attention.

Blame China for this mess.


You should write under the name Thom Clancy.
 
2013-03-15 10:24:10 PM

hardinparamedic: JeffDenver: I am filled with hate and fear of oppressive non-democracies. Blowing them up feels better than taking drugs.

And military spending is the one type of spending I don't have a problem with. There is no issue more important that Defense.

[cdn.ebaumsworld.com image 320x220] 

Let's play the feud! Number one answer on the board, among 100 people surveyed, Troll or Complete Idiot!


That was a great episode.  In my top 3 for sure.
 
2013-03-15 10:25:44 PM

dennysgod: [media.ft.com image 418x452]

Well I guess it's technically possible they could hit Alaska but so far their rockets act like torpedoes.


Holy fark they have a missile called No Dong?!  That  is the punchline.
 
2013-03-15 10:26:31 PM
Good excuse for a training exercise with a sense of urgency. We'd be fools to pass that up.
 
2013-03-15 10:36:18 PM

hardinparamedic: MurphyMurphy: The reason we have such abysmal security regarding our ports is because there really isn't a feasible way to check everything without grinding our ports (and consequently our economy) to a complete stall.

Facts do stop them, quite often actually.

Not really, no. It's  hard to hide a device like North Korea has the technology for. Those devices are crude, require a lot of shielding, and put off a lot of waste decay. The Department of Energy NEST teams have been doing nuclear threat detection and response for the past few decades now, and the US has drones that can scan large areas for radioactive material and nuclear devices.


It's not that hard to hide a very destructive device. A shipping container is more than adequate to hide a device and enough shielding to prevent bells and whistles on wide terrain aerial scans.

Whether NK has the ability to make a device that can fit in a shielded container isn't really material to the discussion. I know this thread is about the NK missile threat but I was simply commenting on why it is we can't check every single container on every single ship. And we can't.

We do our best with what we have, but it's simply not enough. The same can be said of our entire border. It simply cannot be made airtight and the idea that it can be is a lie sold to garner taxpayer support... it's a lie I support, a necessary lie that allows people the confidence and peace of mind to operate in their day-to-day and allows us to fund the projects that can take us as close to 'safe' as we can get... but it's still a half-truth.

We are a couple technological leaps from making those aerial sweeps as accurate and fool-proof as we are wont to believe they are. I'm sure we'll get there in time but for now if someone has the means and will all they need is the right plan and a bit of luck.

...and all of that is moot, because by the time the ship is at the port getting scanned, if it has a nuke on board it's already reached it's destination/target.
 
2013-03-15 10:59:59 PM
All you need is enough highly enriched uranium (the size of a tennis ball) to turn New York City into ash.
 
2013-03-15 11:07:18 PM
The US is adding intercepters because North Korea is giving them an excuse to.
We dont fear North Korea and the intercepters can be used to defend against China and Russia too.

Its just like the goverment pushing an assault rifle  ban. Right now is a good time because Newtown gave them an excuse to outlaw guns.
 
2013-03-15 11:15:10 PM
JeffDenver:
The problem with MAD is that you have to assume the other side is rational enough not to risk destroying themselves just to destroy you.

That's why this is so convenient. These ballistic defense things are really bad for international relations, especially with Russia.


RUSSIA: Hey USA, I notice you built some more ballistic defense stuff.
USA: Yeah?
RUSSIA: Well... you're not supposed to do that, remember? Treaties and stuff?
USA: Oh, this isn't for you. This is for North Korea.
RUSSIA: ...
 
2013-03-15 11:22:55 PM
I guarantee if they drive them up and down Highway 99, there will be no nuclear attack on the west coast of the US.
 
2013-03-15 11:32:24 PM
The first rule of public service: CYA. Regardless of how asinine the fantasy scenario is.
 
2013-03-15 11:43:48 PM
hardinparamedic:

You almost sound like you know what you're talking about. Keep up the almost good work.
 
2013-03-15 11:46:00 PM
I was surprised by the $1 billion price tag for 14 interceptors, what a bargain.
/Not like they'll ever be used but....
 
2013-03-15 11:48:37 PM

PiffMan420: All you need is enough highly enriched uranium (the size of a tennis ball) to turn New York City into ash.


Right. And all you need to get from NYC to Sydney is 125 gallons of Jet-A.
 
2013-03-15 11:49:04 PM
Why yes,......That was a compliment.
 
2013-03-15 11:51:12 PM

God-is-a-Taco: NK is a convenient cover for another layer of defense against Russia and China


Shhhh, you're not supposed to tell anyone.
/And the one in Poland yeah that's for Iran, yeah, no really...
 
2013-03-16 12:01:00 AM

neongoats: Yeah, it's worked so well for us too, that nation building. Look at the bastions of freedom and democracy we have created.


I agree. Modern Iraq is far preferable to what Saddam's Iraq was.
 
2013-03-16 12:04:18 AM
MurphyMurphy:

Yeah, so is there any chance you'll just STFU ???
 
2013-03-16 12:10:03 AM

hardinparamedic: make me some tea: While I don't disagree that it's more for show than anything else, their underground tests did not fizzle.

No, they just proved North Korea has reached 1938, and can build a crude Teller-Ullam Triggered Device.

The NK test reached a yield of 5-7kT. For comparison, Trinity shot was 20kT.

GAT_00: I think there is zero chance they have a deployable warhead and I question whether they have a missile that could reach us even without a warhead.

That being said, it isn't completely impossible that they do.

The only active missile platforms in use right now by North Korea that could possibly deliver a nuclear payload are based on the SCUD B and D system, which has a range of ~300KM or so. The only thing Japan MIGHT have to worry about is the MRBM that they built off of the SCUD-B platform, the Rodong-1, which has a range of 900KM, but the accuracy (worse than that of the infamously inaccurate SCUD) and ability of the Rodong-1 is quesitonable in and of itsself.

The taepodong-1 and taepodong-2 ICBM platforms have failed, notoriously and hilariously, every time they have been launched in a military test.


They put a satellite into orbit didn't they (they manage finally?), I mean, that could hit USA even if they're not trying.
 
2013-03-16 12:12:01 AM
I wonder if we are hours, days or a month from war.

When it starts, N Korea's life expectancy will be in minutes.

I don't think we would go easy on a nation bent on nuking us.

Do they even have a clue as to what we could do to them? Why would they invite and prevoke....
 
2013-03-16 12:40:12 AM
Ok, quick question.

Here was the headline I submitted for this story:

U.S Government Official Last Week: "Obviously North Korea isn't a threat and we aren't taking their blustering seriously". This Week: "Well, we've decided to install these Missile Defense Weapons JUST IN CASE"

How is this headline not plagiarism?  Just wondering...
 
2013-03-16 01:03:26 AM

8 inches: Ok, quick question.

Here was the headline I submitted for this story:

U.S Government Official Last Week: "Obviously North Korea isn't a threat and we aren't taking their blustering seriously". This Week: "Well, we've decided to install these Missile Defense Weapons JUST IN CASE"

How is this headline not plagiarism?  Just wondering...


Yours was too official and wordy like and here I think they go by the 10,000 monkey's on a typewriter and sometimes they write the same thing.
/But hey you've got greenlights and truth be told it doesn't mater...
//Cheers, at least you knew about the story before I did ; )
/And no not subby/subbette
 
2013-03-16 01:07:22 AM
To everyone saying they dont have the technology to properly navigate a rocket:  I hate to break it to you, but technology has come a long farking way in a very short time.  You can literally build a guidance system at home with parts ordered off the internet.  If your target is as large as a city, that shiat becomes... simplistic.  Stop being retarded.
 
2013-03-16 01:38:25 AM

spawn73: They put a satellite into orbit didn't they (they manage finally?), I mean, that could hit USA even if they're not trying.


So much win, Spawn. SO much win.

Didn't parts from that launch hit a Chinese satellite, by the way?

Alonjar: To everyone saying they dont have the technology to properly navigate a rocket:  I hate to break it to you, but technology has come a long farking way in a very short time.  You can literally build a guidance system at home with parts ordered off the internet.  If your target is as large as a city, that shiat becomes... simplistic.  Stop being retarded.


Problem 1)A 5kT ground detonation will not do much damage to a modern, concrete and steel city. One of the reasons that the 17kT Fat Man did so much damage was because of the construction of Hiroshima was all wood and rice paper, predominantly.
Problem 2)All of North Korea's space and theater ballistic systems are based off the soviet SCUD platform, which was notoriously inaccurate, and highly kill-able by the Patriot missile system. Literally, if you're being attacked by a SCUD, your best and safest place to be was the target that SCUD was headed for.
Problem 3) You can build a guidance system using American GPS satellites. However, ICBMs do not use GPS guidance when targeting their re-entry path. Inertal and other mechanisms of re-entry guidance are far more complex than simply plugging in a GPS chip. Cruise missiles do, but all of the systems that North Korea possesses would be killable using existing CIWS, AEGIS, and Patriot systems. In addition, they do not possess the range to strike anyone but South Korea.

FutherMucker: hardinparamedic:

You almost sound like you know what you're talking about. Keep up the almost good work.


If I've gotten something wrong, I'm open to correction.
 
2013-03-16 02:32:55 AM

hardinparamedic: spawn73: They put a satellite into orbit didn't they (they manage finally?), I mean, that could hit USA even if they're not trying.

So much win, Spawn. SO much win.

Didn't parts from that launch hit a Chinese satellite, by the way?

Alonjar: To everyone saying they dont have the technology to properly navigate a rocket:  I hate to break it to you, but technology has come a long farking way in a very short time.  You can literally build a guidance system at home with parts ordered off the internet.  If your target is as large as a city, that shiat becomes... simplistic.  Stop being retarded.

Problem 1)A 5kT ground detonation will not do much damage to a modern, concrete and steel city. One of the reasons that the 17kT Fat Man did so much damage was because of the construction of Hiroshima was all wood and rice paper, predominantly.
Problem 2)All of North Korea's space and theater ballistic systems are based off the soviet SCUD platform, which was notoriously inaccurate, and highly kill-able by the Patriot missile system. Literally, if you're being attacked by a SCUD, your best and safest place to be was the target that SCUD was headed for.
Problem 3) You can build a guidance system using American GPS satellites. However, ICBMs do not use GPS guidance when targeting their re-entry path. Inertal and other mechanisms of re-entry guidance are far more complex than simply plugging in a GPS chip. Cruise missiles do, but all of the systems that North Korea possesses would be killable using existing CIWS, AEGIS, and Patriot systems. In addition, they do not possess the range to strike anyone but South Korea.

FutherMucker: hardinparamedic:

You almost sound like you know what you're talking about. Keep up the almost good work.

If I've gotten something wrong, I'm open to correction.


Yea, even a 1 megaton weapon isn't even even a city killer for a large city. The book Warday had it right with pattern bombing of cities like San Antonio. I think it was 6 - 1 MT weapons were used and then you get a dead zone.

Granted even 1 bomb in a city now and it will change everything, no matter what the yield is.
 
2013-03-16 03:45:54 AM

JeffDenver: hardinparamedic: Ah. I see you ignored the fact that you're blatantly lying

Yes, no liberal has ever opposed national missile defense. I totally made that up just now. You caught me.


Nixon was a liberal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
 
2013-03-16 03:56:52 AM

MooseKiller: dennysgod: [media.ft.com image 418x452]

Well I guess it's technically possible they could hit Alaska but so far their rockets act like torpedoes.

I read through my homeowner's insurance policy a while back.  Interestingly, there is a clause in there that states my house is not covered if it is damaged/destroyed by a nuclear event, whether accidental or intentional.


Remember that, next time some idiot tells you hippies and NIMBYS are holding back nuclear power in this country.

It ain't hippies, it's the commercial insurance industry...
 
2013-03-16 04:04:52 AM

JeffDenver: neongoats: Yeah, it's worked so well for us too, that nation building. Look at the bastions of freedom and democracy we have created.

I agree. Modern Iraq is far preferable to what Saddam's Iraq was.


Not according to the actual people who actually live there.

As opposed to neocon chickenhawks living in a fantasy land...
 
2013-03-16 05:23:03 AM

hardinparamedic: spawn73: They put a satellite into orbit didn't they (they manage finally?), I mean, that could hit USA even if they're not trying.

So much win, Spawn. SO much win.

Didn't parts from that launch hit a Chinese satellite, by the way?

Alonjar: To everyone saying they dont have the technology to properly navigate a rocket:  I hate to break it to you, but technology has come a long farking way in a very short time.  You can literally build a guidance system at home with parts ordered off the internet.  If your target is as large as a city, that shiat becomes... simplistic.  Stop being retarded.

Problem 1)A 5kT ground detonation will not do much damage to a modern, concrete and steel city. One of the reasons that the 17kT Fat Man did so much damage was because of the construction of Hiroshima was all wood and rice paper, predominantly.
Problem 2)All of North Korea's space and theater ballistic systems are based off the soviet SCUD platform, which was notoriously inaccurate, and highly kill-able by the Patriot missile system. Literally, if you're being attacked by a SCUD, your best and safest place to be was the target that SCUD was headed for.
Problem 3) You can build a guidance system using American GPS satellites. However, ICBMs do not use GPS guidance when targeting their re-entry path. Inertal and other mechanisms of re-entry guidance are far more complex than simply plugging in a GPS chip. Cruise missiles do, but all of the systems that North Korea possesses would be killable using existing CIWS, AEGIS, and Patriot systems. In addition, they do not possess the range to strike anyone but South Korea.

FutherMucker: hardinparamedic:

You almost sound like you know what you're talking about. Keep up the almost good work.

If I've gotten something wrong, I'm open to correction.


Did you quit being a Bronx?
 
2013-03-16 06:01:24 AM
Good story to keep our minds off the billions of bullets fatherland homeland security is buying.
 
2013-03-16 07:01:42 AM

CygnusDarius: Which begs the questions, what the fark does China gain by having North Korea as their biatch? Does North Korea have any resource in abundance that only China can get?


In the days of the Korean war and the Vietnam war (and other US aggressions) it keeps American imperialist assholes from setting up bases on their borders. It worked, they ceased aggression as soon as the yanks dragged their tired defeated asses out of their region.

Modern day, ... not so sure

They view them here currently as a "little brother we are one day going to have to kick the shiat out of, but still a brother"
 
2013-03-16 09:51:50 AM

God-is-a-Taco: JeffDenver:
The problem with MAD is that you have to assume the other side is rational enough not to risk destroying themselves just to destroy you.

That's why this is so convenient. These ballistic defense things are really bad for international relations, especially with Russia.


RUSSIA: Hey USA, I notice you built some more ballistic defense stuff.
USA: Yeah?
RUSSIA: Well... you're not supposed to do that, remember? Treaties and stuff?
USA: Oh, this isn't for you. This is for North Korea.
RUSSIA: ...


That treaty had an exist clause for either side.  We exercised it.
 
2013-03-16 09:55:36 AM

hasty ambush: God-is-a-Taco: JeffDenver:
The problem with MAD is that you have to assume the other side is rational enough not to risk destroying themselves just to destroy you.

That's why this is so convenient. These ballistic defense things are really bad for international relations, especially with Russia.


RUSSIA: Hey USA, I notice you built some more ballistic defense stuff.
USA: Yeah?
RUSSIA: Well... you're not supposed to do that, remember? Treaties and stuff?
USA: Oh, this isn't for you. This is for North Korea.
RUSSIA: ...

That treaty had an exist  exit clause for either side.  We exercised it.


FTFM
 
2013-03-16 01:59:43 PM

PunGent: Nixon was a liberal?

Yeah, pretty much. He bent over and spread his buttcheeks for China. Most of his policies (certainly his foreign policy) are what real conservatives would consider liberal today.

 
2013-03-16 02:01:44 PM

PunGent: JeffDenver: neongoats: Yeah, it's worked so well for us too, that nation building. Look at the bastions of freedom and democracy we have created.

I agree. Modern Iraq is far preferable to what Saddam's Iraq was.

Not according to the actual people who actually live there. As opposed to neocon chickenhawks living in a fantasy land...


I had no idea you knew everyone in Iraq personally. Your facebook feed must be flooded every day.

For people that loved Saddam so much they sure were in a hurry to hang him.
 
2013-03-17 01:29:25 PM

JeffDenver: PunGent: JeffDenver: neongoats: Yeah, it's worked so well for us too, that nation building. Look at the bastions of freedom and democracy we have created.

I agree. Modern Iraq is far preferable to what Saddam's Iraq was.

Not according to the actual people who actually live there. As opposed to neocon chickenhawks living in a fantasy land...

I had no idea you knew everyone in Iraq personally. Your facebook feed must be flooded every day.

For people that loved Saddam so much they sure were in a hurry to hang him.


For people that supported him for a decade, we were sure in a hurry to throw him under a bus :)

And, you can always tell when someone hasn't read "Fiasco".
 
2013-03-17 04:11:50 PM

PunGent: For people that supported him for a decade, we were sure in a hurry to throw him under a bus :)


We sure were. Why, it's almost as if we never really supported him at all eh?
 
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