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(WXYZ Detroit)   Michigan's first gay marriage happens today. On an Indian reservation. Under tribal law   (wxyz.com) divider line 119
    More: Interesting, Michigan, Petoskey, tribal law  
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3789 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2013 at 3:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 02:10:07 PM
I thought tribes were sovereign states.

Why would Michigan laws apply?
 
2013-03-15 02:37:09 PM
Tim and Gene both served 18 years in the U.S. Navy and believe they fought for everyone else's rights and freedom and now they want the same rights.

Hear hear!
 
2013-03-15 02:48:07 PM
Two sailors, one of whom is an Indian? Where's the cop, construction worker, and cowboy?
 
2013-03-15 02:52:09 PM
Tribal law will keep their marriage safe from a 2004 Michigan constitutional amendment.

It's also safe from the federal Defense of Marriage Act which is in front of the U.S. Supreme Court and defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman.



Not so. DoMA, Clause 2, which  isn't in front of SCOTUS at the moment:

No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.


That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.
 
2013-03-15 03:00:56 PM

Walker: Tim and Gene both served 18 years in the U.S. Navy and believe they fought for everyone else's rights and freedom and now they want the same rights.

Hear hear!


Somehow, this is the only comment I see in here, so at least that's worth agreeing with.
 
2013-03-15 03:27:05 PM

serial_crusher: I have generally held


And what governmental office do you hold that your opinion about this matters to anyone except you?
 
2013-03-15 03:31:46 PM

Theaetetus: serial_crusher: I have generally held

And what governmental office do you hold that your opinion about this matters to anyone except you?


sorry, I should have used the word "thought", not "held".  I'm not saying everybody should apply the same standards I do... I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

I hadn't heard about the Elizabeth Warren controversy until this thread, but it has enlightened me that I'm entitled to check that box.
 
2013-03-15 03:44:14 PM

serial_crusher: I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.


You really thought you'd "get in trouble" for attending a school club if you didn't have enough of the proper ancestry? Like you'd go to the Chinese-American Student Dance and someone would arrest you?
 
2013-03-15 03:45:28 PM
no take backs
 
2013-03-15 03:46:51 PM
I just came by to say...congratulations.
i1222.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-15 03:47:13 PM
Wellp, time to get that emergency manager up there to take over Soaring Eagle...

/No, really, I'm pretty sure that Rick Snyder is thinking up ways to get his emergency manager into tribal lands.
 
2013-03-15 03:48:59 PM
How?
 
2013-03-15 03:49:39 PM

Theaetetus: That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.


Well hell, then they need to move to another state and then sue because thats a clear violation of the 14th
 
2013-03-15 03:50:06 PM
upload.wikimedia.org


There is no shame in two spirts. They succeed as women hey do not fail as men.
 
2013-03-15 03:50:17 PM
They smoke'm peace pole.
 
2013-03-15 03:50:49 PM
FABULOUS wallpaper there boys.
 
2013-03-15 03:51:02 PM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Theaetetus: That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.

Well hell, then they need to move to another state and then sue because thats a clear violation of the 14th


I'm pretty sure that one of the two reasons why it's in court right now.

/Can't wait to hear the arguments on that case
 
2013-03-15 03:52:15 PM

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Theaetetus: That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.

Well hell, then they need to move to another state and then sue because thats a clear violation of the 14th


Ive heard of people who simply want to live their llives rather than being test cases for lawsuits.


NTTAWWT
 
2013-03-15 03:53:17 PM
Everyone should send blankets.
 
2013-03-15 03:53:26 PM
Defraud the Pale Faces in 4 simple steps:

1) Advertise that you've "Legalized" gay marriage on your reservation
2) Do not inform the roundeyes that changing jurisdictions specifically for marriage purposes defeats marriages, or that DOMA makes the marriages a nullity
3) Charge exorbitant "Western Sky" type fees
4) Hi how are ya, Hi how are ya
 
2013-03-15 03:53:28 PM
"Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...
 
2013-03-15 03:53:56 PM

Theaetetus: Tribal law will keep their marriage safe from a 2004 Michigan constitutional amendment.

It's also safe from the federal Defense of Marriage Act which is in front of the U.S. Supreme Court and defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman.


Not so. DoMA, Clause 2, which  isn't in front of SCOTUS at the moment:

No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.


That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.


While section 2 is not currently up for review by SCOTUS, assuming that the section that IS up for review is struck down, the next question that will likely arise will be the 'severability' of the law as a whole - i.e., can the other sections be rationally enforced when other portions of the law have been removed?
 
2013-03-15 03:54:57 PM

spentmiles: "Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...


Well, you've sure as hell spent a long time thinking about it.
 
2013-03-15 03:56:21 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-15 03:56:38 PM

spentmiles: "Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-15 03:57:04 PM

spentmiles: And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?


I would think they'd have to stoop at least a little...
 
2013-03-15 03:58:06 PM

Theaetetus: serial_crusher: I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

You really thought you'd "get in trouble" for attending a school club if you didn't have enough of the proper ancestry? Like you'd go to the Chinese-American Student Dance and someone would arrest you?


well if I marked it on my application forms and got accepted to school so I could fill a quota, that might have turned out badly for me if they found out I "lied".  Ever see the movie Soul Man?
 
2013-03-15 03:58:25 PM

spentmiles: "Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...


Then you should be all for it. Every one of my stright friends say they stopped haveing sex 2 weeks after the marriage
 
2013-03-15 04:02:26 PM
I wonder if straights made a pact with gays, this whole controversy would go away:

Gays promise to engage in and ONLY in oral sex (as hetero couples do)
Straight people and the church would probably be inclined to back off

/isn't butfarking the real issue people have with the gays?
 
2013-03-15 04:03:04 PM
Reception being held at the casino?
 
2013-03-15 04:04:12 PM

spentmiles: "Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...


i141.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-15 04:04:37 PM

xaratherus: While section 2 is not currently up for review by SCOTUS, assuming that the section that IS up for review is struck down, the next question that will likely arise will be the 'severability' of the law as a whole - i.e., can the other sections be rationally enforced when other portions of the law have been removed?


Highly unlikely that they will sever it if struck, but as I pointed out section 2 is clearly a violation and would in all likely hood kill the entire thing.

Reverend J: I'm pretty sure that one of the two reasons why it's in court right now.


For section 1 yes, not 2

mikaloyd: Ive heard of people who simply want to live their llives rather than being test cases for lawsuits.


Well whats the fun in that
 
2013-03-15 04:06:18 PM

another cultural observer: Defraud the Pale Faces in 4 simple steps:

1) Advertise that you've "Legalized" gay marriage on your reservation
2) Do not inform the roundeyes that changing jurisdictions specifically for marriage purposes defeats marriages, or that DOMA makes the marriages a nullity
3) Charge exorbitant "Western Sky" type fees
4) Hi how are ya, Hi how are ya


It sounds like for  gay Michiganders, getting married by an official of this tribe would be no more or less effective than getting married in Massachusetts--but a much shorter drive.

On the other hand, they may only be doing this for members of their tribe in the first place, in which case this will only apply to a very few people.
 
2013-03-15 04:06:27 PM

spentmiles: "Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...


Sounds like that is the way you were conceived.
 
2013-03-15 04:07:15 PM

Reverend J: MyKingdomForYourHorse: Theaetetus: That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.

Well hell, then they need to move to another state and then sue because thats a clear violation of the 14th

I'm pretty sure that one of the two reasons why it's in court right now.

/Can't wait to hear the arguments on that case


Unfortunately, it's not a violation of the 14th, and is also not in court over that clause. That clause is specifically about the Full Faith & Credit clause, which explicitly gives Congress the power to dictate what effect acts have in other states... In DoMA, they said "no effect", which is arguably within their power.

xaratherus: While section 2 is not currently up for review by SCOTUS, assuming that the section that IS up for review is struck down, the next question that will likely arise will be the 'severability' of the law as a whole - i.e., can the other sections be rationally enforced when other portions of the law have been removed?


Interestingly (and somewhat shockingly, so much so that I had to double check different sources), there's no severability clause in DoMA. I'd be somewhat surprised if SCOTUS reads one in, but, honestly, not terribly surprised, since it would give them an easy halfway position.
 
2013-03-15 04:08:27 PM
Hmmmmm!  I think that Spentmiles and Santorum have more than just politics in common.
 
2013-03-15 04:08:59 PM
That didn't happen at Soaring Eagle.  That was Turtle Creek I would imagine.
 
2013-03-15 04:11:26 PM

spentmiles: "Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...


First, source:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf

Excerpt: "...36% of women and 44% of men ever had anal sex with an opposite-sex partner "

Just to crunch the numbers: In 2008 (when the study was concluded) the United States' population was 305 million. As a high-end estimate, it's thought that roughly 3% of the population is homosexual, so that would be just over 9 million; figure that about 60% of those are male, that's 5 million gay men. Let's say that  all of them have anal sex (which is inaccurate; not all gay men like anal).

Now based on the CDC study, that would be 44% of heterosexual (or possibly bisexual) men having anal sex - or just over 1.3 billion.

This is why it's so mind-mindbogglingly stupid to refer to anal sex as "gay sex", because based solely on numbers, there are  far more heterosexuals having anal sex than there even  are gay people.
 
2013-03-15 04:11:37 PM

Theaetetus: Interestingly (and somewhat shockingly, so much so that I had to double check different sources), there's no severability clause in DoMA. I'd be somewhat surprised if SCOTUS reads one in, but, honestly, not terribly surprised, since it would give them an easy halfway position.


I was shocked by that as well, but like you also think there a small sliver of chance they could read one in.

On the non violation of 14th by section 2 however, despite having that power as part of the full faith and credit clause the door swings both ways at a state level. MI for instance should easily hold validity of marriage lisc in states that have legalized it. Hence forth, its a clear violation of the 14th no more than when states passed laws banning interracial marriage during the civil rights era.
 
2013-03-15 04:13:03 PM

serial_crusher: Theaetetus: serial_crusher: I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

You really thought you'd "get in trouble" for attending a school club if you didn't have enough of the proper ancestry? Like you'd go to the Chinese-American Student Dance and someone would arrest you?

well if I marked it on my application forms and got accepted to school so I could fill a quota, that might have turned out badly for me if they found out I "lied".


Do you have any evidence that either of those happened in Warren's case? Because, apparently she was recruited and didn't apply, and "Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, [said] that the Democratic candidate's heritage didn't come up during the course of her hiring. "It simply played no role in the appointments process," he said. "It was not mentioned and I didn't mention it to the faculty.""
 
2013-03-15 04:13:40 PM
 Remember way back when the first gay marriages happened? Remember how we were all told
that it was the end of us all?  Well...It has now been YEARS since then...The world is still turning..
the sun is still shining, and crazy is still crazy
 
2013-03-15 04:13:54 PM
What a gay Indian may look like:

media.tumblr.com

//Hell is hot.
///Like my links.
////Which is hot.
 
2013-03-15 04:16:22 PM
 
2013-03-15 04:18:23 PM

xaratherus: spentmiles: "Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...

First, source:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf

Excerpt: "...36% of women and 44% of men ever had anal sex with an opposite-sex partner "

Just to crunch the numbers: In 2008 (when the study was concluded) the United States' population was 305 million. As a high-end estimate, it's thought that roughly 3% of the population is homosexual, so that would be just over 9 million; figure that about 60% of those are male, that's 5 million gay men. Let's say that  all of them have anal sex (which is inaccurate; not all gay men like anal).

Now based on the CDC study, that would be 44% of heterosexual (or possibly bisexual) men having anal sex - or just over 1.3 billion.

This is why it's so mind-mindbogglingly stupid to refer to anal sex as "gay sex", because based solely on numbers, there are  far more heterosexuals having anal sex than there even  are gay people.


I tried heroin once.  Does that make me a heroin user?

Any my ninth grade girlfriend let me put the tip in her shiat-puker once.  Does that make me an active diaper wiper?

Everyone is entitled to try something once, to make a mistake.  It becomes inexcusable when unsanitary behavior becomes compulsive to the point of redefining marriage so as to include the abhorrent in a beautiful custom.  It's akin to repealing the "Employees must wash hands after using the bathroom" laws.  You may like a healthy dose of shiat in your soup, but the majority of people aren't interested.  Take your deviance back underground.

Is it really all that natural if it requires a quart of lube?  Sounds more like a rape to me.
 
2013-03-15 04:20:09 PM

Theaetetus: serial_crusher: Theaetetus: serial_crusher: I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

You really thought you'd "get in trouble" for attending a school club if you didn't have enough of the proper ancestry? Like you'd go to the Chinese-American Student Dance and someone would arrest you?

well if I marked it on my application forms and got accepted to school so I could fill a quota, that might have turned out badly for me if they found out I "lied".

Do you have any evidence that either of those happened in Warren's case? Because, apparently she was recruited and didn't apply, and "Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, [said] that the Democratic candidate's heritage didn't come up during the course of her hiring. "It simply played no role in the appointments process," he said. "It was not mentioned and I didn't mention it to the faculty.""


Well, I can't be sure every time I check a box, whether or not I'll benefit from it.  Either it's always ok for me and Warren to check the box or it's always wrong for us to check the box.  How other people use it is out of our control.
 
2013-03-15 04:21:01 PM

spentmiles: Sounds more like a rape to me.


Well since that occurs in the wild, rape is obviously a natural thing. I mean women have shiat that can shut things down too, so there that also.
 
2013-03-15 04:25:16 PM

serial_crusher: Well, I can't be sure every time I check a box, whether or not I'll benefit from it.  Either it's always ok for me and Warren to check the box or it's always wrong for us to check the box.


What box? She was recruited. She didn't fill out an application or check a box.
 
2013-03-15 04:25:51 PM
A'ight, back on topic. Sorry, mods.
 
2013-03-15 04:26:32 PM

spentmiles: xaratherus: spentmiles: "Do you, Pale Face, agree to let Tonto shoot his arrow up your ass twice a week?"

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass?  Probably not.  And why?  Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing.  Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage.  The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking.  Is that something you can really get behind?  A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...

First, source:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf

Excerpt: "...36% of women and 44% of men ever had anal sex with an opposite-sex partner "

Just to crunch the numbers: In 2008 (when the study was concluded) the United States' population was 305 million. As a high-end estimate, it's thought that roughly 3% of the population is homosexual, so that would be just over 9 million; figure that about 60% of those are male, that's 5 million gay men. Let's say that  all of them have anal sex (which is inaccurate; not all gay men like anal).

Now based on the CDC study, that would be 44% of heterosexual (or possibly bisexual) men having anal sex - or just over 1.3 billion.

This is why it's so mind-mindbogglingly stupid to refer to anal sex as "gay sex", because based solely on numbers, there are  far more heterosexuals having anal sex than there even  are gay people.

I tried heroin once.  Does that make me a heroin user?

Any my ninth grade girlfriend let me put the tip in her shiat-puker once.  Does that make me an active diaper wiper?

Everyone is entitled to try something once, to make a mistake.  It becomes inexcusable when unsanitary behavior becomes compulsive to the point of redefining marriage so as to include the abhorrent in a beautiful custom.  It's akin to repealing the "Employees must wash hands after using the bathroom" laws.  You may like a healthy dose ...


Feel free to read the source document. It goes on to state that somewhere around 10%+ of those heterosexual males engage in it on a 'regular basis'. Which is still more straight people having anal sex than there are even homosexuals that exist.

Anal sex - in fact, sex in general, since there's no legal requirement in the United States that a married couple even  have sex - has absolutely nothing to do with gay marriage, but please, continue to pretend like it does. Your petulant cries of "waaaaaah hide your deviance" make me chuckle.

Like all (apparent) anti-gays, your vapid arguments of "yuck, I don't like it" are so easy to dismantle.
 
2013-03-15 04:27:55 PM

xaratherus: Feel free to read the source document. It goes on to state that somewhere around 10%+ of those heterosexual males engage in it on a 'regular basis'. Which is still more straight people having anal sex than there are even homosexuals that exist.


Given those statistics and population sizes, I wonder what the ratio of heterosexual men who engage in pegging to gay men is.
 
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