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(WCSH 8 Portland)   Guy who set USS Miami on fire to get some time off gets 17 years time off. Plus, has to pay back $400 million in restitution, which in cigarettes is infinity   (wcsh6.com) divider line 15
    More: Amusing, USS Miami, restitution, cigarettes  
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9565 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2013 at 3:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 04:06:12 PM
3 votes:
The only way to attack a US naval vessel without reprecusion is to be Israeli.
2013-03-15 04:17:39 PM
2 votes:

kindms: Like what ? following other subs that maybe a handful of other countries own ? maybe the occasional black Op ?

Like I said a complete waste of $$$. It is basically just another socialized work program for Electric Boat and the folks who call this their job.


You may want to brush up on your knowledge of world submarine fleets if you think there are a "handful" of other countries with them.
2013-03-15 04:13:36 PM
2 votes:

TheGreatGazoo: How can you do that much damage to a sub with a fire?  Isn't there a fire suppression system on board?


The submarine was in drydock undergoing a major overhaul at the end of the working day.  That contributed to the problem in the following ways:
1. There was no cooling effect from the surrounding water, as there was no water
2. The forward compartment was torn up, with missing deckplates, passageways, and the normal firefighting system out of commission.  Perhaps the emergency breathing air system was degraded as well.
3. Most of the crew was gone, greatly decreasing the amount of people to notice the fire early
4. The shipyard fire department did respond, and quickly, but by then the fire had taken root in some hull insulation and was fairly inaccessible while producing heavy, black smoke
5. The ship was only accessible via one hatch in the front, which let me tell you is a giant PITA when wearing a FFE and Scott AirPack.

Also: there is no "suppression system," for if we had that at sea it would be the "kill everyone immediately" system.

UNC_Samurai: /Apparently the Navy seriously evaluated if the cost of scrapping the vessel was more cost-effective than repairing it.


That's a fact.  The hull is in good shape, the sonar arrays were undamaged, and everything aft of the watertight door is hunky-dory.  Replacing her would take years of diminished capability and cost 5x as much.
2013-03-15 03:32:45 PM
2 votes:
Good thing he already finished filming the second half of the final season.


www.wcsh6.com

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
2013-03-15 05:48:39 PM
1 votes:

kindms: Ohio class (18 in commission) - 14 ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs), 4 guided missile submarines (SSGNs)
Virginia class (7 in commission, 3 under construction, 4 on order) Fast attack submarines
Seawolf class (3 in commission) - attack submarines
Los Angeles class (43 in commission, 2 in reserve) - attack submarines

So we have 71 and more on the way. No one thinks this is a problem ?

Lets say they only cost 1 billion a pop (which is probably under value) 71 billion dollars spent on these things. And this is only the active fleet. This doesn't even take in to account all the decommissioned ones. And people are complaining about not fixing one.


You really can't lump SSBN's, SSGN's and SSN's in the same category. They all have very different missions from each other. Sure there are some similarities and some crossover but you aren't ever going to be taking a boatload of your strategic defense force and put it at risk (well, no more than you have to anyway). So that realistically leaves 50 boats to do the more "Traditional" submarine work (in reserve means mothballed which can take over a year to get back up and running, and not at an insignificant cost either).

So you have 50 SSN's commissioned, at any given time roughly half are unavailable for any number of reasons but its mostly maintenance related, many repairs simply cannot be performed at sea either because it's not possible due to being submerged, it takes special equipment that there's simply no room to store on board, the parts aren't available, the work requires the weapons to be offloaded, the work itself causes atmospheric contamination or a bunch of other very realistic reasons.

So that leaves about 25 boats available for sea duty. I don't know if you've noticed or not but there is a whole lot of ocean. By my reckoning that's over five million square miles per boat. Now of course not every square mile needs to be covered and the ideal situation would be to have a boat where you need it, when you need it, but often you can't and don't know where that will be so you have to hedge your bets and keep some in reserve to send places as needed. And speaking of sending them places that's gonna take some time away from them doing whatever it is that you need them to do (did I mention how big the worlds oceans are?).

I noticed that someone mentioned the Russians and the Chinese as potential threats. There are other ones out there as well. Iran and North Korea both have their own submarines. Granted, they're going to be limited in range compared to a nuclear powered boat but they both are relatively close to some very strategic waterways. By my reckoning those four countries have a combined total of well over 150 nuclear and conventional boats of which if even only one third of which is able to go to sea at any given time is still twice what we could have at sea. Our cupboard isn't bare but it sure isn't where it was just a few decades ago either.
2013-03-15 04:56:41 PM
1 votes:
Ohio class (18 in commission) - 14 ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs), 4 guided missile submarines (SSGNs)
Virginia class (7 in commission, 3 under construction, 4 on order) Fast attack submarines
Seawolf class (3 in commission) - attack submarines
Los Angeles class (43 in commission, 2 in reserve) - attack submarines

So we have 71 and more on the way. No one thinks this is a problem ?

Lets say they only cost 1 billion a pop (which is probably under value) 71 billion dollars spent on these things. And this is only the active fleet. This doesn't even take in to account all the decommissioned ones. And people are complaining about not fixing one.
2013-03-15 04:45:44 PM
1 votes:
Some guy wastes $400-500 million through arson and suddenly people are concerned about tax payer monies?  Come on... a half a billion is chump change for what is squandered and stolen every day. Is that people can understand it when someone sets a fire and causes damage but they can't understand financial fraud or follow the money through the political process?

As to the idiot, if he wanted to go home he should have just had himself a workplace accident. Odds are nobody would have questioned it the first couple times if he didn't hurt himself too badly.
2013-03-15 04:33:17 PM
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: kindms: Like we really need f-ing Attack subs.

Just write off the loss. Put the guy in the slammer and call it a day.

What a waste of $$

We have plenty of ICBMs etc to get the job done. We don't need to keep throwing money away on tools no one wants to use and if they ever get used won't really matter anyway.

Fighters no longer need guns....
We no longer need tanks....
Heavy bombers are useless....


that has to be the dumbest argument ever.

Please tell us when the last major US Naval battle was, when was the last sub battle ? And we are discussing the need to fix ONE sub. Not the need for all subs but ONE.

This is the same crap that always happens when folks try to discuss scaling back military spending. Do we really need to have a HUGE fleet of subs when they are only really a nuclear first strike deterrent ?

As soon as people start talking about scaling back the spending you get folks like you screaming about leaving the country vulnerable to attack etc etc

Lets be honest we spend more $$ on our military than almost every country combined. Not replacing a single sub isn't going to weaken us as a nation.

Tanks, planes, guns, subs etc OK but we really don't need to have excessive amounts of them at the cost of other important areas of our country
2013-03-15 04:19:27 PM
1 votes:

kindms: Like we really need f-ing Attack subs.

Just write off the loss. Put the guy in the slammer and call it a day.

What a waste of $$

We have plenty of ICBMs etc to get the job done. We don't need to keep throwing money away on tools no one wants to use and if they ever get used won't really matter anyway.


Fighters no longer need guns....
We no longer need tanks....
Heavy bombers are useless....
2013-03-15 04:12:25 PM
1 votes:

Resolute: And yet, completely inconsequential compared to the cost of a single rape or murder.


You might want to reconsider your comparison.  Not to devalue the cost of murder and rape but to consider this:  This asshat set fire to a nuclear powered sub less than 60 miles from Boston.  While a sub is designed to protect the reactor in event of combat damage, how many of those protections are removed during overhaul to allow the work to take place.  Yes the reactor was powered down; yes it remained safe.  But did the jackass know that when he decided it was Miller Timetm?  How many firefighters lives did he endanger?  How many has he shortened?

/big picture and all that
//thinks he's make a fine dock bumper.
/// If they forget to untie the bumper before doing a pressure test I'd forgive them.
2013-03-15 04:08:45 PM
1 votes:
a fire on a US Naval vessel, started by a dockworker, was able to damage it that much.... there's something wrong there somewhere. did the guy have a few thousand gallons of gasoline and unrestricted access to the entire sub? are nuclear submarines made out of greasy rags and newspaper? are there really no Navy guys standing around watching the ship and able to put out a fire before it can do $450,000,000 in damages?

yeah, let the guy rot in jail, but i don't think he's the only person to blame for the massive amount of damage he was able to do.
2013-03-15 04:02:37 PM
1 votes:

Nem Wan: We gave away/lost more than that amount of cash in Iraq with no accounting. I don't see Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld being on the hook for restitution.
[static.guim.co.uk image 372x192]


Nor will Obama and his campaign money bundlers have to offer restitution for the $535 million  we lost to Solyndra or any of his other Green energy kick backs
2013-03-15 04:02:34 PM
1 votes:

UNC_Samurai: mrlewish: Why does it cost $450 million to fix a sub?  While the guy deserves the pokie for a long time it sounds like Navy and taxpayer was burned twice.

/Apparently the Navy seriously evaluated if the cost of scrapping the vessel was more cost-effective than repairing it.


Here's the main question: Would you like to reach op depth in a hull that's been fire-hardened? I'd think twice, and call my detailer.
2013-03-15 03:45:11 PM
1 votes:

mrlewish: Why does it cost $450 million to fix a sub?  While the guy deserves the pokie for a long time it sounds like Navy and taxpayer was burned twice.


They cost over a $Billion new, and VA-class subs are over $2B I think.  He burned up all the forward-compartment equipment, which is everything that isn't propulsion.  Just clearing all that destroyed material and re-making the interior frame is going to be hard enough, plus the cost of all the equipment and re-tooling for equipment that hasn't been produced in over 10 years.

kindms: Like we really need f-ing Attack subs.

Just write off the loss. Put the guy in the slammer and call it a day.

What a waste of $$

We have plenty of ICBMs etc to get the job done. We don't need to keep throwing money away on tools no one wants to use and if they ever get used won't really matter anyway.


Attack subs have the highest operational tempo of any ship in the Navy.  ICBMs have nothing to do with SSNs... and SSNs do their intended job all the time.
2013-03-15 03:17:07 PM
1 votes:
He should also be charged with treason. He weakened our national security on top of everything else. Shoot him.
 
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