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(Huffington Post)   The "secret ingredient" in Guinness will make vegans squirm... which means more Guinness for those of us who understand humans are omnivores   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 198
    More: Spiffy, Guinness, Diageo, vesica piscis, ingredients, vegetarians, food allergies  
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20506 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2013 at 10:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 03:54:57 PM
Besides the obvious "they're self-righteous douche bags," why all the hate for vegans? I get that they can be annoying and smug - but there has to be more to the hate/dislike than that.

/legitimately curious
//stop laughing, I really don't understand why
 
2013-03-15 03:55:07 PM

TechnicolorYawn: My company brought in a bunch of Guinness for a St. Patrick's day party, this afternoon.  Having a lot of people here from India, who are vegetarians, I wonder if I should mention this fish bladder thing?

/nah


Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.
 
2013-03-15 03:57:56 PM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


Some hardcore vegans DON'T.

My best guess is that a Vegan diet is difficult enough, having to worry about yeast too would drive you mad.
 
2013-03-15 03:58:46 PM

cousin-merle: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: And you know that polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Keep in mind, the whole "OMG, MEAT STAYS IN YOUR COLON FOR DAYS!!!1!!" is bullshiat.

Thanks, I'll be sure to pass on your expert medical opinion to her doctor and the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons.


Uh huh...so again, you know that the polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Remember, "increased risk" ≠ definite cause, but I'm sure that doesn't matter since you can use this as an excuse to be smug about your lifestyle choices.  Tell me, how often do you say "I told you so" to your dad's wife?
 
2013-03-15 04:02:31 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.


The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products
 
2013-03-15 04:04:58 PM

semiotix: Teufelaffe: It usually goes like this:

Me: *says something that has nothing whatsoever to do with food, diets, the environment, sustainability, or animal welfare*
Vegan: "That's nice.  So, have you tried the new Vegan bacon burrito at the co-op deli?"
Me: "No, I don't get to the co-op much."
Vegan: "Oh, are you a...Meat Eater?" (Those last two words are usually dripping with disdain.)
Me: "Yes, I eat meat."
Vegan: *rant about how I'm helping destroy the world, perpetuate suffering, and am just an all around terrible human being and I should become a Vegan so I can stop being so awful*

I get this shiat on a regular basis, almost always out of the farking blue.  I am always polite to them, I never provoke their tirades, and I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times.  I never comment on their chosen lifestyle or diet and usually just excuse myself as soon as I can when they start haranguing me.

Ah, the rare "Internet Meek Guy." Well played!

I ought to 'shoop up an "ITG Magazine" equivalent, but outside of persecution-by-rabid-vegan threads, it's hardly ever necessary.

/Seriously, though, no one believes this or anything remotely like it has actually happened to you.


Oh noes, someone on the Internet doesn't believe me!  Whatever shall I do!?
 
2013-03-15 04:09:16 PM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Uh huh...so again, you know that the polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Remember, "increased risk" ≠ definite cause, but I'm sure that doesn't matter since you can use this as an excuse to be smug about your lifestyle choices.  Tell me, how often do you say "I told you so" to your dad's wife?


I never said it was the direct cause, but she would rather reduce her risks, and she made her decision with doctor, not with me.  You are a sad person.
 
2013-03-15 04:11:24 PM

shortymac: Some hardcore vegans DON'T.

My best guess is that a Vegan diet is difficult enough, having to worry about yeast too would drive you mad.


I would go crazy without yeast.  Besides the obvious beer, nutritional yeast tastes way better than it sounds.
 
2013-03-15 04:11:26 PM

cousin-merle: Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.

The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products


Well it's a good thing the Reinheitsgebot isn't applicable anymore.
 
2013-03-15 04:11:30 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Are they also using sparkle taps on that pale ale?
60/40 is decent for all beers, including Guiness. We used to run a beer we called the nitro-porter. Carbed and pushed with that blend.

Thing is, you really don't any No2. The biggest reason you do that is to keep from over-carbing the beer in the keg, or if you have a very long trunk between the kegs and the taps. The trunk for the breweries pub is about 75 feet long and goes up. So we used the blend to send it that far without putting a lot of co2 on top of the tanks that could be absorbed by the beer..
But nitrogen has its own issues with generating it you have the set up to do so. So we ripped all that out and put pneumatic sanitary pumps on the lines instead. Solved all those issues.

Also stop pimping a imperial stout over a session stout, they are two different types of stouts. Picking Murphy's over Guinness is more appropriate comparison.

/old speckled hen


75 feet going up (how far)? There is a whole lot of resistance in that system - do you know what the interal diameters of your trunk lines were?  Im surprised you could get away with even a 60% blend (espessially on traditionally nitro beers) - your psi must have been in the 30s or 40s. pumps definatly sound like the best option there - but not really in the budget of most sports bars.  After you put the pumps in did you just use a pure CO2 pressure on it(for the necessary carbonation retention)? I've never seen one of those systems in action, so im curious. Also not sure what a sparkle tap is...

As to the NC OR recomendation...well, I just can't think of many dry stouts that tasted all that good to me - they are a pretty boring beer.  I liked this one, but I doubt you could find it outside of central FL
 
2013-03-15 04:17:01 PM

hubris73: As to the NC OR recomendation...well, I just can't think of many dry stouts that tasted all that good to me - they are a pretty boring beer. I liked this one, but I doubt you could find it outside of central FL


They are out there.  I've made plenty.  They don't have to be boring just because the most famous one is.
 
2013-03-15 04:17:27 PM

cousin-merle: Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.

The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products


The reinheitsgbot was put in place more so because the old Bavarian ale wives were adding Hens bane to their beer and killing customers.
Also, don't forget that the original interpretation of that law didn't allow for yeast either. And a lot of German brewers I've met over the years really hate that law because it pigeon holes them.

And I'll take a Bloody Mary oyster shooter over a oyster stout.
 
2013-03-15 04:17:41 PM

Bruxellensis: Well it's a good thing the Reinheitsgebot isn't applicable anymore.


It's a good thing DE filters exist.  Fossilized animals are technically vegan, apparently.
 
2013-03-15 04:21:27 PM

cousin-merle: shortymac: Some hardcore vegans DON'T.

My best guess is that a Vegan diet is difficult enough, having to worry about yeast too would drive you mad.

I would go crazy without yeast.  Besides the obvious beer, nutritional yeast tastes way better than it sounds.


ooh it is! I love making mac and cheese with it!
 
2013-03-15 04:22:35 PM

Cerebral Knievel: cousin-merle: Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.

The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products

The reinheitsgbot was put in place more so because the old Bavarian ale wives were adding Hens bane to their beer and killing customers.
Also, don't forget that the original interpretation of that law didn't allow for yeast either. And a lot of German brewers I've met over the years really hate that law because it pigeon holes them.



fark the Reinheitsgebot.  This, coming from a German beer lover and brewer.
 
2013-03-15 04:26:24 PM

Lusebagage: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.

Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposal,  Energy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle disease,  Biodiversity loss, to name a few.


Good.
 
2013-03-15 04:36:21 PM
Guinness snobs and vegans are two cohorts I'd like to rub from the face of the earth. That is all.
 
2013-03-15 04:41:55 PM

hubris73: Cerebral Knievel: Are they also using sparkle taps on that pale ale?
60/40 is decent for all beers, including Guiness. We used to run a beer we called the nitro-porter. Carbed and pushed with that blend.

Thing is, you really don't any No2. The biggest reason you do that is to keep from over-carbing the beer in the keg, or if you have a very long trunk between the kegs and the taps. The trunk for the breweries pub is about 75 feet long and goes up. So we used the blend to send it that far without putting a lot of co2 on top of the tanks that could be absorbed by the beer..
But nitrogen has its own issues with generating it you have the set up to do so. So we ripped all that out and put pneumatic sanitary pumps on the lines instead. Solved all those issues.

Also stop pimping a imperial stout over a session stout, they are two different types of stouts. Picking Murphy's over Guinness is more appropriate comparison.

/old speckled hen

75 feet going up (how far)? There is a whole lot of resistance in that system - do you know what the interal diameters of your trunk lines were?  Im surprised you could get away with even a 60% blend (espessially on traditionally nitro beers) - your psi must have been in the 30s or 40s. pumps definatly sound like the best option there - but not really in the budget of most sports bars.  After you put the pumps in did you just use a pure CO2 pressure on it(for the necessary carbonation retention)? I've never seen one of those systems in action, so im curious. Also not sure what a sparkle tap is...

As to the NC OR recomendation...well, I just can't think of many dry stouts that tasted all that good to me - they are a pretty boring beer.  I liked this one, but I doubt you could find it outside of central FL


Co2 is metered out to retain head pressure in the tank, and, of course to prevent the coke can in a vacuum effect. We maintain about 15-20psi head pressure on the tank it self.. most of our beers are served out 200 gallon Grundy tanks. The brewery and pub is a two story split level building with the brewery and serving cellar down stairs with the pub and its kitchen upstairs. So the trunk has to go up a full story to the tap handles up stairs. We had all types of issues with the nitro system, so that's why we yanked it out and went with the pumps, and they work very well for this application.

Essentially, the pump is always trying to pump, when you open a faucet, the back pressure on the pump is released and the beer starts pumping. Adjusting flow rate is a matter of adjusting gas pressure to the pump and head pressure on the tank.

A sparkle tap is a industry name for a Guinness type nitro tap. Its designed for a slow pour and has a restriction plate between the facet and the pour nib. The restriction plate breaks up the pour and agitates the beer to cause it to foam up to make that big head. Guinness is liable to pour like a normal beer without that tap and its nitro blended carbonation. The co2 nucleates off the No2. The vertical pour with the tap causes all that to happen.

And if you don't like dry stouts, that's all good, that's just your taste, i prefer a sweet porter if I'm drinking something like that myself. Old speckled hen is my favorite of that ilk that can usually be found as an import.

Last time I was in Florida, none of the local beers stood out to me.. I think it was the water.. it was just.. off. Either that sand/limestone substrate, or the okifinokie swamp water... but it all had that.. Florida taste, i guess you would call it. The beer wasn't bad mind you, it just had a lingering taste that kinda put me off.

Keep in mind, the last time i was in Florida, my pooling samples were between west palm beach and Key West
 
2013-03-15 05:02:33 PM
Y

TheMysticS: TheMysticS: CheekyMonkey: Farxist Marxist: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

I tend to think of alcohol as yeast pee, rather than a yeast death by-product, This will make it more palatable to Vegans, who are used to being pissed on by real meat-eating alpha males.

Pfft.  What do you think happens to the yeast after it's done fermenting the wort?  You think the brewery releases it back into the wild, or sends it off to live out the remainder of it's days at Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?  No.  It's MURDERED.  BEER IS MURDER.

\off to have a Guinness

Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary.
Ew.

Also, a great name for an all-gal cover band. Gotta cover some bands without ALL girls.
Diana Ross, The Supremes,
Bangles, Debby Harry, Veruca Salt, The Go-gos, Spice Girls, TLC, Salt and Pepa, Destiny's Child, Siouxie and the Banshees, Patti Smith, L7, Chaka Khan, The Runaways (and their later bands), The Slits, The Pretenders, Janis Joplin, and The Muffs.

All done in the punk/metal genre.
Or a swing band.

I forgot about the teaches of Peaches!

/for shame


         You also forgot The All Girl Boys Choir

 
2013-03-15 05:04:42 PM

Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel: cousin-merle: Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.

The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products

The reinheitsgbot was put in place more so because the old Bavarian ale wives were adding Hens bane to their beer and killing customers.
Also, don't forget that the original interpretation of that law didn't allow for yeast either. And a lot of German brewers I've met over the years really hate that law because it pigeon holes them.


fark the Reinheitsgebot.  This, coming from a German beer lover and brewer.


Hell, i'm a big German beer lover, probably because im half kraut :D
I think the big thing that makes a lot of these beers extra yummy is that a lot of the little guys are still using unmodified malts and employing a decoction mash.

shiat.. i wish we would do that here, our waters mineral profile is really similar to Munich, and the brew house can do decoction. We already do a lot of German style beers as it is because of the water.
 
2013-03-15 05:18:26 PM
Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.
 
2013-03-15 05:20:11 PM

Cerebral Knievel: fark the Reinheitsgebot.  This, coming from a German beer lover and brewer.

Hell, i'm a big German beer lover, probably because im half kraut :D
I think the big thing that makes a lot of these beers extra yummy is that a lot of the little guys are still using unmodified malts and employing a decoction mash.

shiat.. i wish we would do that here, our waters mineral profile is really similar to Munich, and the brew house can do decoction. We already do a lot of German style beers as it is because of the water.


That's funny.  I'm half kraut myself.  We traced my ancestry back to German and Austrian brewers.  Weird, huh?  Could that be in the blood?

My water is pretty similar to Munich as well.  My Sulfate is a tad lower, but nothing a little Gypsum can't fix if I'm going for a German style lager.  In my opinion, doing a decoction is stupid if you're using well modified malts.  You're killing your head retention if you do a protein rest with modified malts.  Unless, of course, you can do double or triple decoction somehow without stepping up the mash each time, and remain in saccharification temperature.  Or perhaps you could throw in a little wheat malt in the mash once you've hit sacch temp.  You need a way to bring back the long chain proteins if you want decent head retention in the final beer, and coasting through the protein enzyme zone will hurt that (part of the decoction mashing process).

I've done many decoction mashes, but gotta say that the best results come from using under-modified Moravian Pils malt.  Just can't beat it.  If I'm using modified malts I'll add a couple percent melanoidin malt or caramunich malt or aromatic malt, or a combination thereof, to simulate the effect.  It's close, but good palates can tell the difference.
 
2013-03-15 05:27:02 PM
I've got a Traditional Bock on tap right now in which I used all modified malts.  I threw in 3.75% Melanoidin malt, and mashed at 154.  It has wonderful body, and rich malty flavor, but is not too sweet.  Too bad I live so far from the brewery where you work CK; I would drop off samples all the time.
 
2013-03-15 05:44:33 PM

WGJ: I thought they weren't drinking it anyways because they use rats for flavoring.


They found the rats after they cleaned the vats.

Good Rats
 
2013-03-15 05:50:59 PM

Teufelaffe: cousin-merle: Teufelaffe: That's exactly what I'm suggesting.  It's like you read my mind!  Or, maybe I was pointing out the unintended consequences of Veganism.  All Vegans have really managed accomplish is getting a feeling superiority and the destruction of farmland (and a detrimental effect on local dietary habits) in South America in order to meet the increased demand for quinoa as an export.  But I'm sure that smugness they feel will help recover those over-farmed areas any day now.

Yeah, because destroying hundreds of thousands of square miles of rainforest for cattle ranching is so much better for South America.  Not everything is equally bad.  You think you are making an intelligent point, but you're not.  Sure, there can be unintended consequences, but the status quo is orders of magnitude worse.

Not saying they're equally bad, but when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?  I haven't yet, but maybe the Vegans you've met haven't been self-righteous douche-rockets who make a point to express just how superior they are to "meat eaters".  And this is shiat that comes up in conversations that are entirely unrelated to diet mind you. In my experience, most Vegans are just another version of the anti-fur people who wear leather or the Earth First! folks who drive gasoline-fueled cars.  They're more than happy to tell other people how horrible their choices are, but they never seem to be willing to cop to consequences of their own.


I'm a vegan, and I'm more than willing to cop to the fact that it's not a super magical way of life that somehow ends the destruction of the planet. I'm a vegan because I'm allergic to milk, meat makes me fat and I don't like the taste and I feel bad when I think about what an animal has to go through to become my food. I don't badger my friends and family about not being vegan (even my husband isn't a vegan) and in fact have to endure more of their shiat about how gross all my food is and their constant taunts with bacon than they have to endure from me. Also, when I find out something like Quinoa destroying the way of life for South Americans (which I learned about months ago), I stop eating it and switch to something more sustainable because why be an a*shole? Otherwise, it's contrary to the whole concept.

The same could be said for 90% of my vegan/vegetarian friends. So, stop being a d*ckhole.
 
2013-03-15 06:45:14 PM
cousin-merle: You sound like another South Park intellectual. There are plenty of environmental reasons to oppose the mass consumption of meat, from the amount of fresh water used to the amount of waste produced. There are other reasons, from personal health to animal welfare, and each person has a different balance of these values in making decisions in their lives.

Every time you give some reason other than "MY BALLS ARE HUGE AND I ROCK THATS WHY" i'm going to feel an urge to poke holes in your crappy line of reasoning.
There are plenty of reasons to be a vegan. None of them good. The wonderful thing about being human is you dont need a good reason to do anything. Opposing the mass consumption of meat hardly makes you a vegan. At most it would make you a non-safeway-tarian.

When you say "all vegans are tools", you expose a general, pervasive ignorance and assume
that you have all the knowledge necessary to make decisions for other people.


I'm not making any decision for you. I have known gaggillions of vegetarians, vegans, what have you -- i spent my fist year of college living on a campus that didn't serve an ounce of meat -- i have heard every reason under the sun and all of them amount to it being a personal choice and they tack on some flawed cause to try rationalize it. Just what i've seen.

You obviously know nothing about my reasons outside of a snippet of a conversation that you were not a part of.

Excuse me? Part of the conversation? As far as im concerned clicking the link to this thread made me part of it. If you want to have a private conversation with someone then maybe fark isn't the place for you.

My biggest issue is with the large-scale, low-ethics production.

Oh look you just told me your big issue. If thats really your angle wouldnt you be doing more by supporting small eco friendly farms with good ethics rather than pulling your money out all together? Kind of cutting off the nose to spite the face aren't you?

How about my dad's wife? She just recently discovered a polyp in her colon. Man, she sure is a tool for wanting to follow my lead and eat fewer animals, am I right? Point and laugh at her biased propaganda! Honestly, eat what you want, but don't be such an asshole about it.

soooo... i have colitis so i'm well aware of the many terrible terrible things that can go wrong inside a colon. We could talk about all the stuff soy does to your hormones or complex carbs do to your pancreas or fruit juice and soda do to your teeth but really why don't we just agree that living caries a risk of death.
--- Also -- im not so sure im the asshole here. I'm pretty sure you were the one who started being condescending to people who ate meat.

Dick.
 
2013-03-15 07:51:35 PM
I didn't know isinglass was still around at all. I see it used in very old cookbooks, but I'd figured gelatin entirely replaced it. Aside from source material, is there a difference between the two?
 
2013-03-15 07:57:34 PM

psychosis_inducing: I didn't know isinglass was still around at all. I see it used in very old cookbooks, but I'd figured gelatin entirely replaced it. Aside from source material, is there a difference between the two?


You get F in reading thread.
 
2013-03-15 08:59:54 PM

FunkOut: Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.


As a former Vegan  I can confirm this, lol! Hubby is still a Vegan and he loves both :P
 
2013-03-15 09:11:07 PM

mafiageek1980: FunkOut: Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.

As a former Vegan  I can confirm this, lol! Hubby is still a Vegan and he loves both :P


isnt the cream filling in the oreos vanilla flavord crisco?

well... I guess that is alright then..

lard and butter is technically better for you fat wise, not so much cholesterol wise..so, its a trade up..

for the record, I love carnivore food, omnivore food, vegi, and vegan food..

the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products. using TVP or tofu and what have you to make things that look and taste like meat, but are not actually meat. my thought is that if you miss the shiat so much, just farking eat the real thing and be done with it. seems to me you are just torturing yourself at the end of the day.
 
2013-03-15 09:46:13 PM
Yeast aren't animals. They're fungi, so its like eating mushrooms.
 
2013-03-15 09:47:04 PM
Mmmm. Fish bladder.
 
2013-03-15 09:57:25 PM
Lusebagage

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You veg types would get more converts if you laid off the "YER A BAD PERSON AND YER KILLING THE PLANET" tirades (which make us want to eat all the meat in the world just to spite you) and instead focused on helping to create veg alternatives to meat that are more affordable and more palatable than the ones we have now.

Stop braying about what evil people we are and instead make being veg more appealing than it currently is, and more people will pick vegetarian options instead of meat options.
 
2013-03-15 10:02:51 PM

Cerebral Knievel: the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products.


Stripple. The worst thing ever. It looks like bacon coloured tent patch and it tastes like bacon coloured tent patch.

farm1.staticflickr.com

The funniest part was that the people eating it weren't super strick vegitarians. They would eat steaks once in a bit. They followed leviticus food food laws because they were Seventh Day Adventist...

Not only was it fake meat -- it was fake meat from an animal none of them had ever even tasted. They would go out of their way to eat fake meat from animals their bible called unclean.

Mind you these were the same people that belived eating shell fish was like eating poop because 'thats what they eat out of the water' and you are what you eat apparently. As if potatoes were made of dirt and cows made of grass.

Stripple -- the only thing worse in the morning is watching the rest of the people at the table use orange juice on their honey nut cheerios instead of milk. Barf. They would exclaim 'its not so bad' and say 'adam and eve wouldnt have had milk, they would have had fruit juice and water.' (true story) And i would have to ask how they knew that and why they couldnt milk cows. No reason. They just liked to think that thought without actually thinking about that thought. I find that common among fundies. They never seem to play devils advocate with a single word they're told.
 
2013-03-15 10:12:49 PM

MeanJean: You veg types would get more converts if you laid off the "YER A BAD PERSON AND YER KILLING THE PLANET" tirades (which make us want to eat all the meat in the world just to spite you) and instead focused on helping to create veg alternatives to meat that are more affordable and more palatable than the ones we have now.


Eating a veggie diet is easy and delish. Just make dishes you would normally make and omit the meat. Dont replace it with bulgar wheat or some hippy dippy slice of Wham (fake ham). Just omit it. Add more beans and nuts to your diet. Its easy. Just dont eat meat. Thats the whole point. Replacements are always worse than ommiting.

And if i ever hear one of you bastards using 'carob' chips in cookies i will come to your house and beat you to death with a bag of rasins. Rasins suck in cookies but they are still better than 'carob covered in a HIV laden hobo blood'.
 
2013-03-15 10:49:32 PM

Cerebral Knievel: mafiageek1980: FunkOut: Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.

As a former Vegan  I can confirm this, lol! Hubby is still a Vegan and he loves both :P

isnt the cream filling in the oreos vanilla flavord crisco?

well... I guess that is alright then..

lard and butter is technically better for you fat wise, not so much cholesterol wise..so, its a trade up..

for the record, I love carnivore food, omnivore food, vegi, and vegan food..

the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products. using TVP or tofu and what have you to make things that look and taste like meat, but are not actually meat. my thought is that if you miss the shiat so much, just farking eat the real thing and be done with it. seems to me you are just torturing yourself at the end of the day.


eh, it's a taste thing. Don't get me wrong, Vegans don't wanna eat animal parts but it's a lie to say some of them don't miss it. So, they gotta get creative. Frankly, Tofu (if done right) can be ok, but it's not a high staple in our house. If we want something like sloppy joes or taco meat, that's when we use TVP. I try to tell people that there IS vegan junk food and being a vegan for health reasons is an oxymoron (ok, the one exception being cholesterol levels..veganism DOES help with that). If you don't get off your ass and exerise then the only good you are doing yourself as a vegan is not consuming animal souls (I'm speaking from experience here).

/Pescetarian, former Vegan as of 2 wks ago
//luv me some fish!
 
2013-03-15 10:52:03 PM

Cerebral Knievel: mafiageek1980: FunkOut: Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.

As a former Vegan  I can confirm this, lol! Hubby is still a Vegan and he loves both :P

isnt the cream filling in the oreos vanilla flavord crisco?

well... I guess that is alright then..

lard and butter is technically better for you fat wise, not so much cholesterol wise..so, its a trade up..

for the record, I love carnivore food, omnivore food, vegi, and vegan food..

the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products. using TVP or tofu and what have you to make things that look and taste like meat, but are not actually meat. my thought is that if you miss the shiat so much, just farking eat the real thing and be done with it. seems to me you are just torturing yourself at the end of the day.


and to answer your question about the Oreo, they changed the formula, so now it's animal free.
 
2013-03-16 02:26:21 AM

Lusebagage: RedVentrue: Vegans know that eating animals are unavoidable, and they eat animals every day, right?

Nice grammar, perhaps the animal fats are clogging your brain!  How is eating animals unavoidable? Animals cannot make their own nutrients, they come strictly from plant based sources. When you eat the animals "bladder" (in this case) or any other part, ALL nutrients you derive from it were originally obtained through plants, true fact, look it up.

Vegans don't eat animals everyday, they never eat them, or eggs, or dairy, or cheese, or anything that compromises the integrity of sentient beings.

...Bring it on down to Veganville!


There are microscopic animals on, and in, that plant matter.
 
2013-03-16 02:29:37 AM

mikefinch: MeanJean: You veg types would get more converts if you laid off the "YER A BAD PERSON AND YER KILLING THE PLANET" tirades (which make us want to eat all the meat in the world just to spite you) and instead focused on helping to create veg alternatives to meat that are more affordable and more palatable than the ones we have now.

Eating a veggie diet is easy and delish. Just make dishes you would normally make and omit the meat. Dont replace it with bulgar wheat or some hippy dippy slice of Wham (fake ham). Just omit it. Add more beans and nuts to your diet. Its easy. Just dont eat meat. Thats the whole point. Replacements are always worse than ommiting.

And if i ever hear one of you bastards using 'carob' chips in cookies i will come to your house and beat you to death with a bag of rasins. Rasins suck in cookies but they are still better than 'carob covered in a HIV laden hobo blood'.


You are evil and I hate you.
 
2013-03-16 09:32:02 AM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


I know, and I love to remind them that yeast is technically an animal, not a plant.  Also that agricultural combine harvesters mince up plenty of bugs along with that grain and they all get baked right into every piece of bread you eat with everything else.

Even vegetarians find vegans annoying.
 
2013-03-16 11:44:39 AM

mikefinch: Cerebral Knievel: the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products.

Stripple. The worst thing ever. It looks like bacon coloured tent patch and it tastes like bacon coloured tent patch.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 640x480]

The funniest part was that the people eating it weren't super strick vegitarians. They would eat steaks once in a bit. They followed leviticus food food laws because they were Seventh Day Adventist...

Not only was it fake meat -- it was fake meat from an animal none of them had ever even tasted. They would go out of their way to eat fake meat from animals their bible called unclean.


That makes sense, since it's a fake religion.
 
2013-03-16 01:41:26 PM

NephilimNexus: I know, and I love to remind them that yeast is technically an animal, not a plant.


Technically, yeast is a fungus, neither an animal nor a plant. But don't worry--trolling is more about tone and timing than knowing your ass from your elbow. You'll do fine.
 
2013-03-16 03:28:36 PM

RedVentrue: You are evil and I hate you.


if it counts for anything i had been awake for 24 hours and when i spelled out the full word it wouldnt give me the correct spelling and i just wanted to get on with it.. I hate that word too.

FloydA: That makes sense, since it's a fake religion.


No arguments here man. Those guys are kooky.
 
2013-03-16 04:03:59 PM
Mikefinch

Eating a veggie diet is easy and delish. Just make dishes you would normally make and omit the meat. Dont replace it with bulgar wheat or some hippy dippy slice of Wham (fake ham). Just omit it. Add more beans and nuts to your diet. Its easy. Just dont eat meat. Thats the whole point. Replacements are always worse than ommiting. '

Beans and nuts, you say? That would work great if I wasn't allergic to tree nuts and didn't have irritable bowel syndrome.
 
2013-03-16 04:23:10 PM

MeanJean: Beans and nuts, you say? That would work great if I wasn't allergic to tree nuts and didn't have irritable bowel syndrome.


If your not vegan Whey powder might help. Tofu? Nothing wrong with tofu if you aren't trying to hide it in a dish that should have meat in it. Its not meat and shouldnt be treated like a meat substitute. Its tofu. Its its own thing and i can respect that. Or seeds? Seeds are packed with protein...

I bet you could make a pretty boss square out of sunflower seeds and dark chocolate and dried cherries...
 
2013-03-16 05:27:53 PM
Mikefinch

Whey powder might help

Nope. Lactose intolerant.

I'll keep your suggestions about tofu and seeds in mind though.
 
2013-03-16 06:19:46 PM

mikefinch: RedVentrue: You are evil and I hate you.

if it counts for anything i had been awake for 24 hours and when i spelled out the full word it wouldnt give me the correct spelling and i just wanted to get on with it.. I hate that word too.

FloydA: That makes sense, since it's a fake religion.

No arguments here man. Those guys are kooky.


I forgive you this time, but don't ever let me catch you doing it again.
 
2013-03-16 06:24:11 PM

mikefinch: RedVentrue: You are evil and I hate you.

if it counts for anything i had been awake for 24 hours and when i spelled out the full word it wouldnt give me the correct spelling and i just wanted to get on with it.. I hate that word too.

FloydA: That makes sense, since it's a fake religion.

No arguments here man. Those guys are kooky.


Just kidding

delicious
 
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