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(Huffington Post)   The "secret ingredient" in Guinness will make vegans squirm... which means more Guinness for those of us who understand humans are omnivores   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 198
    More: Spiffy, Guinness, Diageo, vesica piscis, ingredients, vegetarians, food allergies  
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20507 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2013 at 10:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 01:31:35 PM  

cousin-merle: Teufelaffe: Not saying they're equally bad, but when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?  I haven't yet, but maybe the Vegans you've met haven't been self-righteous douche-rockets who make a point to express just how superior they are to "meat eaters".  And this is shiat that comes up in conversations that are entirely unrelated to diet mind you. In my experience, most Vegans are just another version of the anti-fur people who wear leather or the Earth First! folks who drive gasoline-fueled cars.  They're more than happy to tell other people how horrible their choices are, but they never seem to be willing to cop to consequences of their own.

I know tons of vegans (personally, I still do cheese if I can get it without rennet), and literally zero of them are the way you describe.  The vegans I know think it would be good if others stopped eating meat (or at least stopped contributing to large-scale factory farming), but couldn't give a damn what other people do in their free time.  Usually, they are less inclined to say anything because every macho man-child feels the need to make a pithy comment when they find out someone doesn't eat meat (and it's usually one of the same three "jokes" that have already been repeated in this thread).  Perhaps if you spent less time insulting them, they would be nicer to you.  Telling people they are wasting their time because their choices aren't perfect (in a world where there are no perfect choices) isn't exactly productive.  Have you ever considered that you're the one coming across as preachy and smug by taking this tack?  Do you actually give two shiats about the poor quinoa farmers and llamas in the Andes?  I doubt it; seems like you have a lot of hate and are just looking for a cudgel.


Nice assumptions you're making there.   I am much more reserved in real life than I am on Fark.  I generally don't talk about diet or food with people, yet I get to hear about how fabulous being a Vegan is and how it makes you smarter, better in bed, morally superior, etc from people with no provocation.  It usually goes like this:

Me: *says something that has nothing whatsoever to do with food, diets, the environment, sustainability, or animal welfare*
Vegan: "That's nice.  So, have you tried the new Vegan bacon burrito at the co-op deli?"
Me: "No, I don't get to the co-op much."
Vegan: "Oh, are you a...Meat Eater?" (Those last two words are usually dripping with disdain.)
Me: "Yes, I eat meat."
Vegan: *rant about how I'm helping destroy the world, perpetuate suffering, and am just an all around terrible human being and I should become a Vegan so I can stop being so awful*

I get this shiat on a regular basis, almost always out of the farking blue.  I am always polite to them, I never provoke their tirades, and I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times.  I never comment on their chosen lifestyle or diet and usually just excuse myself as soon as I can when they start haranguing me.  Maybe it's a Southern Vermont thing, but the Vegans I've met here have been Grade A assholes.
 
2013-03-15 01:33:21 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.


Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposalEnergy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle diseaseBiodiversity loss, to name a few.
 
2013-03-15 01:38:15 PM  

wambu: And here I thought they used mule and donkey bladders in the process.



No, you use those, along with sheeps bladders, to prevent earthquakes. SCIENCE!
 
2013-03-15 01:39:08 PM  
Bladders, they're not just for preventing earthquakes anymore.
 
2013-03-15 01:39:10 PM  

Lusebagage: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.

Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposal,  Energy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle disease,  Biodiversity loss, to name a few.



Allowing the human population to increase does the same thing.
 
2013-03-15 01:40:10 PM  

CheekyMonkey:  Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?


Welcome to my new Fark username!
 
2013-03-15 01:42:54 PM  

Lusebagage: Teufelaffe: when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?

Its far less destructive.

When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!

Fact is, eating meat is cruel, self serving, and unnecessary.


That depends on your location. In low water or marginal environments, having a flock of dairy goats or sheep allows for adequate calorie and protein intake. Goats can eat the scrubby bushes people cannot, turning that cellulose and lignin into tasty tasty cheese.

Hunting/fishing is also critical in
Arctic places. Vegan isn't much of an option for the Inuit, unless they want to fly 90% of their food in from thousands of miles away.
 
2013-03-15 01:43:11 PM  

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


TFA is not about yeast, it's about isinglass. And yeast is a living organism, just like plants, that vegans eat.
 
2013-03-15 01:47:15 PM  

give me doughnuts: Allowing the human population to increase does the same thing.


The point is, as the human population increases, eating meat will become "unsustainable" to the planet, because we will need even more space and resources for livestock farms.  We currently kill 75 million animals a day in America alone, Imagine if that was 150 million!  Think of the water shortages, or the waste runoff problems we'd face in this country if we doubled our livestock production.
 
2013-03-15 01:47:16 PM  
I'm not a vegetarian, but the people who are like 'HUMANS ARE OMNIVORES- MEAT IS THE BEST FOR YOU!!!!' are just as bad as hard core vegans to me.

There are reasons why we shouldn't eat as much meat as we eat. To some people apparently it is all or nothing. You can eat all the meat possible or if you are vegan you can't be responsible for the death of any organism (which is impossible).

Maybe if we just cut back on some things we'd be healthier, we could use different farming practices, we could treat the animals we did have to kill a little better, and we could use less resources in general. Is that so horrible?
 
2013-03-15 01:47:25 PM  
.Ok -- we need to stop something right now. Yeast is not 'killed' when you make beer. You add yeast, it grows, it makes alcohol, then it dies. Beer making (and correct me if im wrong) doesn't usually involve any step where fermentation is purposefully stopped. It ends itself for the most part. Its like planting a field of flowers. They smell nice and then they die in the fall. Stuff CAN in fact die all on its own. I think vegans are tools but i have to agree that nitpicking their choices is silly. Easier to just take potshots at their glaring biased propaganda.

 

cousin-merle: Yeah, because destroying hundreds of thousands of square miles of rainforest for cattle ranching is so much better for South America.


See -- keep in mind that you are also arguing against the development of a nation. And that the crap those save the rainforest organizations push is packed with green washing and buzz words. Yes we destroy wild land for agriculture. But the impact on the environment isn't even close to what pack a hundred and fifty thousand people into a few square miles and pave the whole lot. Next time you think about how much rainforest gets destroyed every year think about how much land is occupied in the usa by asphalt... Environmentalism is a pretty arbitrary reason to chose to be vegan. Just grow some balls and say you dont want to eat it because you don't want to eat it. Giving me a reason makes me want to judge its rational.

Now for the important part: Just leave the yeast in. Unibroue does and their beer is mighty good stuff. It puts hair on your chest. Hell -- Tois Pistoles could put hair on the balls of a five year old boy. Good stuff indeed. Tastes delicious, 9%abv and its $6.50 for 750ml bottle.
 
2013-03-15 01:50:10 PM  

give me doughnuts: Allowing the human population to increase does the same thing.


Bonzo_1116: That depends on your location. In low water or marginal environments, having a flock of dairy goats or sheep allows for adequate calorie and protein intake. Goats can eat the scrubby bushes people cannot, turning that cellulose and lignin into tasty tasty cheese.

Hunting/fishing is also critical in
Arctic places. Vegan isn't much of an option for the Inuit, unless they want to fly 90% of their food in from thousands of miles away.


Don't use facts with Vegans, it only confuses and angers them.  The idea that humans, in and of themselves, are more destructive to the environment than all of the domestic livestock on Earth combined. or that there is such a thing as sustainable and non-destructive ranching means that they might be wrong about something, and that's just not allowed.
 
2013-03-15 01:57:46 PM  

spidermilk: or if you are vegan you can't be responsible for the death of any organism (which is impossible).


That's not what veganism is.

Veganism simply is "the doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals,"  Donald Watson 1944

What you are talking about is called "Jainism"
 
2013-03-15 02:02:06 PM  

Cormee: Scrotastic Method: Cormee: pag1107: They should be ashamed at putting their name on such an awful product.

Anyone I know whose had it has said it's quite nice. I think it's been pulled off the market now, anyway

Guinness Black? Naw, still around. They're marketing it hard still, giving cases and cases away for free at "urban hipster" stuff if SF, like art openings and stuff. I've probably had thirty of them in the past two weeks...they're not very good but they're very free, so, I'll have thirty more real soon.

/unless it IS pulled and they're just making me drink their garbage

Maybe it's just in Ireland it was pulled, I was planning on trying one then someone mentioned it was no longer on the market.

Or maybe I just imagined it all.


Definitely still on the market here in New Jersey.  Saw a pile of cases at my local liquor store 2 days ago.

\definitely not interested in trying it
 
2013-03-15 02:03:44 PM  

Bonzo_1116: That depends on your location.


I agree Bonzo, it does depend on your area.
 
2013-03-15 02:04:32 PM  

Lusebagage: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.

Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposal,  Energy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle disease,  Biodiversity loss, to name a few.


Two words:  Less. Humans.

\you're not thinking things through if you believe that all the problems you list above can be fixed simply by all humans moving to a vegan diet.  Overpopulation by humans is THE problem.
 
2013-03-15 02:06:23 PM  

Lusebagage: We currently kill 75 million animals a day in America alone, Imagine if that was 150 million!  Think of the water shortages, or the waste runoff problems we'd face in this country if we doubled our livestock production.


Wouldn't we have water shortages if we doubled our grain production?

Nevermind that water is not destroyed by feeding animals or watering plants:  it is returned to the environment, most of it immediately, and goes back into the water cycle.  Our biggest water problems come from water use at a higher rate than the local aquifer can be replenished at the location where livestock and crops are grown.
 
2013-03-15 02:14:18 PM  

Lusebagage: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.

Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposal,  Energy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle disease,  Biodiversity loss, to name a few.


You realize that this is less an issue with meat consumption than it is an with all agriculture?  While a strict carnivorous diet does in fact raise land requirements, studies have shown that an omnivorous diet featuring some meat is actually less destructive to the land than a high fat exclusively vegetarian diet. Let's look at some of your other concerns:

Fresh water consumption? You realize that water is a vital part of photosynthesis, correct? And we give it to them in huge amounts. So much so that we disrupt natural waterways to create extensive irrigation systems. We also terrace mountainsides to better retain water that is used, because growing plants uses so damn much of it. You may think that plants can live off Brawndo, but I promise you, it is not, in fact, what plants crave.
Animal waste can readily be used for other agricultural endeavors. Manure is compostable and can be used to fertilize agricultural fields. Urea from urine can be used for mycoculture.
Energy consumption for plants is nearly as high when you consider fuel for farm equipment, and energy requirements for humans to hand harvest (which several crops require).
Lifestyle disease? I assume you're talking about how vegans are so super healthy? What about the increase of cancer risk due to constant phytoestrogen exposure? What about the increased exposure to nurtitional deficiencies (and no, not just protein, but vitamin B, omega-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamin D)? What about the elevated level of homocysteine which is slowly dissolving your blood vessels? Just because your lifestyle choice puts you at a lower risk for heart disease and diabetes doesn't mean that it doesn't have negative impacts as well.
Biodiversity loss? Just like how every tomato you see in the store looks exactly the same these days, despite real tomatoes normally having a green crown, a trait which has been bred out as part of organized agriculture?
Deforestation is also used to provide arable land, not just pasturage.
Further, vegans can sleep soundly knowing that on average at least 15 mammals (conservatively) die per hectare of vegetables due to the use of farm equipment, lost of cover post-harvest, and loss of habitat due to land preparation and tilling. Not to mention the number of insects who are destroyed - something most vegans conveniently forget lives in the ground their plants come from. Everything kills something else to live, the goal is to minimize the killing and the impact from it.

Here's an interesting study for you, the cost of life for one million calories:
http://www.animalvisuals.org/p/1mc/docs/1millioncalories.pdf

It sounds like your problems are more with organized agriculture than they are with people eating meat. Argue the ethical aspect, you'll get better results when your claims are under a microscope. I have no problem with vegans. I do however have a problem with vegans who refuse to acknowledge that their so-called better alternative has several negative impacts on ecosystems. Unless you're growing the bulk of your own food in some substrate that animals don't live in, your hands have blood on them. So step off the pedestal.

Also, the idiots who think that we're "exploiting bees" without realizing that removing organized apiaries would lead to worldwide food shortages, famine, war, and catastrophic loss of life within 3-4 years.

/ex vegetarian of 8 years
//grew up on a farm, used to show cows, despises most militant vegans
 
2013-03-15 02:14:59 PM  

mikefinch: .Ok -- we need to stop something right now. Yeast is not 'killed' when you make beer. You add yeast, it grows, it makes alcohol, then it dies. Beer making (and correct me if im wrong) doesn't usually involve any step where fermentation is purposefully stopped. It ends itself for the most part. Its like planting a field of flowers. They smell nice and then they die in the fall. Stuff CAN in fact die all on its own. I think vegans are tools but i have to agree that nitpicking their choices is silly. Easier to just take potshots at their glaring biased propaganda.


Not quite.  During fermentation, the yeast population keeps increasing until it has consumed all the fermentable sugars in the wort.  Some yeast may die of natural causes during this process, but most of them go dormant*.  The dormant yeast is then removed from the beer via fining, filtering or centrifuging, and discarded as waste (i.e. MURDERED).

*the great thing about this is that yeast can be re-used from batch to batch (google 'yeast washing') in my homebrewing, and also, if there is a beer that I really like which happens to be bottled with residual yeast instead of being filtered (like some Belgian ales), I can use that residual yeast at the bottom of the bottle of beer to grow a culture of the exact strain of yeast the brewery used, and use it in my own brewing.

TL,DR:  No, the yeast doesn't all die.
 
2013-03-15 02:16:10 PM  
No Irish Farkers here to defend the Guinness in Ireland?  Guinness in the States tastes like garbage.  In Ireland it tastes completely different.  Might as well be a different beer altogether.
 
2013-03-15 02:18:31 PM  

Xcott: Nevermind that water is not destroyed by feeding animals or watering plants: it is returned to the environment, most of it immediately, and goes back into the water cycle. Our biggest water problems come from water use at a higher rate than the local aquifer can be replenished at the location where livestock and crops are grown.


I don't usually get into these conversations because they are more fun to watch.  I understand the point you are trying to make, but with all the chemicals a lot of these industrial sized farms are dumping on the crops (think Monsanto) what is returning to the Earth isn't exactly drinkable, it's more like water+.  The real problem with factory farms (livestock) is where to put all the waste.  What comes out of the other end of a lot of these animals can't even be used for fertilizer due to the amount of pharmaceuticals that are found in them.
 
2013-03-15 02:18:54 PM  

warthogbrewingco: there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur


I am a brewer, and this is 100% correct.

Also, don't forget chill haze.
 
2013-03-15 02:20:31 PM  

Bruxellensis: warthogbrewingco: there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur

I am a brewer, and this is 100% correct.

Also, don't forget chill haze.


Silly hazes. Pectic haze. Protein haze. Chill haze. Purple haze... err... wait... no that last one is only when you're done homebrewing. lol.
 
2013-03-15 02:24:40 PM  

scubamage: Bruxellensis: warthogbrewingco: there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur

I am a brewer, and this is 100% correct.

Also, don't forget chill haze.

Silly hazes. Pectic haze. Protein haze. Chill haze. Purple haze... err... wait... no that last one is only when you're done homebrewing. lol.


Chill haze is a protein haze.  And yes, you're right about that last part :)
 
2013-03-15 02:38:36 PM  
Ummm...Vegans already knew this. That's why there are websites out there that let them know which beer has this ingredient.

 Nice try, subby.
 
2013-03-15 02:40:07 PM  

Bpjosep: No Irish Farkers here to defend the Guinness in Ireland?  Guinness in the States tastes like garbage.  In Ireland it tastes completely different.  Might as well be a different beer altogether.


Sadly not too many young Irish drink Guinness.  Or any stout for that matter.  When I was there the younger people (i.e. 20's) drink imported German or American lagers and various "alcho-pop" drinks because they are lighter and you can get drunk quicker.

Oddly there were few places to get Harp lager in Ireland.  I would think that would have sold better and competed against the EU imports.
 
2013-03-15 02:56:31 PM  
 CheekyMonkey:  Not quite. During fermentation, the yeast population keeps increasing until it has consumed all the fermentable sugars in the wort. Some yeast may die of natural causes during this process, but most of them go dormant*. The dormant yeast is then removed from the beer via fining, filtering or centrifuging, and discarded as waste (i.e. MURDERED).

And the grain that grows your bread is also essentially a wheat plant that is murdered to make flour. Seeds are seeds. Some are kept by the brewer (farmer) to grow the next crop while the beer (grain) gets separated from the yeast (chaff).
-- the yeast is more analogous to a mold or plant... anyways i think the waste yeast gets sold as animal feed or something. (i think i remember hearing that on Dirty Jobs). In any case thanks! i had forgotten about the waste yeast till now and im going to go make some sourdough starter because yeast.
 
2013-03-15 02:59:02 PM  

scubamage: Bruxellensis: warthogbrewingco: there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur

I am a brewer, and this is 100% correct.

Also, don't forget chill haze.

Silly hazes. Pectic haze. Protein haze. Chill haze. Purple haze... err... wait... no that last one is only when you're done homebrewing. lol.



Rutherford B. Haze...
 
2013-03-15 03:03:14 PM  

mikefinch: . anyways i think the waste yeast gets sold as animal feed or something.



You're technically correct, but they prefer to be called "Aussies," rather than "animals."

i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-15 03:07:30 PM  

CheekyMonkey: Farxist Marxist: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

I tend to think of alcohol as yeast pee, rather than a yeast death by-product, This will make it more palatable to Vegans, who are used to being pissed on by real meat-eating alpha males.

Pfft.  What do you think happens to the yeast after it's done fermenting the wort?  You think the brewery releases it back into the wild, or sends it off to live out the remainder of it's days at Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?  No.  It's MURDERED.  BEER IS MURDER.

\off to have a Guinness


Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary.
Ew.

Also, a great name for an all-gal cover band. Gotta cover some bands without ALL girls.
Diana Ross, The Supremes,
Bangles, Debby Harry, Veruca Salt, The Go-gos, Spice Girls, TLC, Salt and Pepa, Destiny's Child, Siouxie and the Banshees, Patti Smith, L7, Chaka Khan, The Runaways (and their later bands), The Slits, The Pretenders, Janis Joplin, and The Muffs.

All done in the punk/metal genre.
Or a swing band.
 
2013-03-15 03:11:04 PM  
Guinness is gross...

Here, have one of these:
www.northcoastbrewing.com
 
2013-03-15 03:11:09 PM  

TheMysticS: CheekyMonkey: Farxist Marxist: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

I tend to think of alcohol as yeast pee, rather than a yeast death by-product, This will make it more palatable to Vegans, who are used to being pissed on by real meat-eating alpha males.

Pfft.  What do you think happens to the yeast after it's done fermenting the wort?  You think the brewery releases it back into the wild, or sends it off to live out the remainder of it's days at Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?  No.  It's MURDERED.  BEER IS MURDER.

\off to have a Guinness

Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary.
Ew.

Also, a great name for an all-gal cover band. Gotta cover some bands without ALL girls.
Diana Ross, The Supremes,
Bangles, Debby Harry, Veruca Salt, The Go-gos, Spice Girls, TLC, Salt and Pepa, Destiny's Child, Siouxie and the Banshees, Patti Smith, L7, Chaka Khan, The Runaways (and their later bands), The Slits, The Pretenders, Janis Joplin, and The Muffs.

All done in the punk/metal genre.
Or a swing band.


I forgot about the teaches of Peaches!

/for shame
 
2013-03-15 03:12:29 PM  

punkhippie: Guinness sucks ass. It's probably the worst stout in existence.


Get off my planet you heathen!
 
2013-03-15 03:13:35 PM  

CheekyMonkey: Two words:  Less. Humans.


Fewer. Fewer humans.

/fewer grammar Nazis too
 
2013-03-15 03:16:45 PM  
Also, next time you go to a bar and get a flat beer (just a pondscum dappling of foam in top and almost no carbonation in the body) you can thank guinness for that.  Their jackhole reps tell bar managers (who should honestly know better) that they can just use a 30/70 CO2/Nitro blend for all their beers.  Because thats the blend for Guinness...It must be ok for a pale ale too right?
 
2013-03-15 03:20:42 PM  

hubris73: Also, next time you go to a bar and get a flat beer (just a pondscum dappling of foam in top and almost no carbonation in the body) you can thank guinness for that.  Their jackhole reps tell bar managers (who should honestly know better) that they can just use a 30/70 CO2/Nitro blend for all their beers.  Because thats the blend for Guinness...It must be ok for a pale ale too right?


I actually really like certain pale ales and IPA's via a nitro tap. The base beer needs to have a really luscious mouthfeel first though, or else it'll be really wonky. Obviously it's not a one size fits all thing though.
 
2013-03-15 03:24:33 PM  
Oh, isinglass. Works like a charm for clarifying (I make wine).

Wondered when I saw the headline if this might explain the sort of 'meaty' taste in the batter when I used Guinness instead of porter when I made porter cake.

Couldn't find any porter at the time. Cake turned out awesome...'meaty' taste didn't survive the tranformation from 'batter' to 'cake'.
 
2013-03-15 03:24:34 PM  
I guess I could bite on the vegetarian troll, but I'd rather do the trolling myself, so I'll point out that Guinness tastes like watery mud. Maybe they're not using enough fish bladder?

There's nothing wrong with a decent stout. Guinness drinkers should try one. Or, if you're drinking it because you want to be the person calling attention to the mass-market beer you're drinking, ask your bartender for an obscure little microbrew known as a PBR.
 
2013-03-15 03:26:39 PM  
My company brought in a bunch of Guinness for a St. Patrick's day party, this afternoon.  Having a lot of people here from India, who are vegetarians, I wonder if I should mention this fish bladder thing?

/nah
 
2013-03-15 03:26:54 PM  

scubamage: I actually really like certain pale ales and IPA's via a nitro tap. The base beer needs to have a really luscious mouthfeel first though, or else it'll be really wonky. Obviously it's not a one size fits all thing though.


I've only ever seen one that was designed for it, and it was pretty good.  But if they are not designed for it (they ask for 2.5 or more volumes of CO2) they will taste like crap by the time they get down to .5 - which is where they'll be by the time that keg is half empty
 
2013-03-15 03:28:08 PM  
fish bladders

www.cardinalfang.net

Oh, we use only the finest juicy chunks of fresh Cornish RamFish's bladder, emptied, steamed, flavoured with sesame seeds, whipped into a fondue, and garnished with lark's vomit.
 
2013-03-15 03:32:38 PM  

mikefinch: See -- keep in mind that you are also arguing against the development of a nation. And that the crap those save the rainforest organizations push is packed with green washing and buzz words. Yes we destroy wild land for agriculture. But the impact on the environment isn't even close to what pack a hundred and fifty thousand people into a few square miles and pave the whole lot. Next time you think about how much rainforest gets destroyed every year think about how much land is occupied in the usa by asphalt... Environmentalism is a pretty arbitrary reason to chose to be vegan. Just grow some balls and say you dont want to eat it because you don't want to eat it. Giving me a reason makes me want to judge its rational.


You sound like another South Park intellectual.  There are plenty of environmental reasons to oppose the mass consumption of meat, from the amount of fresh water used to the amount of waste produced.  There are other reasons, from personal health to animal welfare, and each person has a different balance of these values in making decisions in their lives.  When you say "all vegans are tools", you expose a general, pervasive ignorance and assume that you have all the knowledge necessary to make decisions for other people.  You obviously know nothing about my reasons outside of a snippet of a conversation that you were not a part of.  My biggest issue is with the large-scale, low-ethics production.  How about my dad's wife?  She just recently discovered a polyp in her colon.  Man, she sure is a tool for wanting to follow my lead and eat fewer animals, am I right?  Point and laugh at her biased propaganda!  Honestly, eat what you want, but don't be such an asshole about it.
 
2013-03-15 03:36:54 PM  

Teufelaffe: I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times

.

I have a hard time believing this has ever happened, but it's past noon and time to get back to thinking about beer.  I hope to murder some brettanomyces and lactobacillus soon.
 
2013-03-15 03:39:38 PM  

hubris73: Also, next time you go to a bar and get a flat beer (just a pondscum dappling of foam in top and almost no carbonation in the body) you can thank guinness for that.  Their jackhole reps tell bar managers (who should honestly know better) that they can just use a 30/70 CO2/Nitro blend for all their beers.  Because thats the blend for Guinness...It must be ok for a pale ale too right?


Are they also using sparkle taps on that pale ale?
60/40 is decent for all beers, including Guiness. We used to run a beer we called the nitro-porter. Carbed and pushed with that blend.

Thing is, you really don't any No2. The biggest reason you do that is to keep from over-carbing the beer in the keg, or if you have a very long trunk between the kegs and the taps. The trunk for the breweries pub is about 75 feet long and goes up. So we used the blend to send it that far without putting a lot of co2 on top of the tanks that could be absorbed by the beer..
But nitrogen has its own issues with generating it you have the set up to do so. So we ripped all that out and put pneumatic sanitary pumps on the lines instead. Solved all those issues.

Also stop pimping a imperial stout over a session stout, they are two different types of stouts. Picking Murphy's over Guinness is more appropriate comparison.

/old speckled hen
 
2013-03-15 03:41:15 PM  

cousin-merle: mikefinch: See -- keep in mind that you are also arguing against the development of a nation. And that the crap those save the rainforest organizations push is packed with green washing and buzz words. Yes we destroy wild land for agriculture. But the impact on the environment isn't even close to what pack a hundred and fifty thousand people into a few square miles and pave the whole lot. Next time you think about how much rainforest gets destroyed every year think about how much land is occupied in the usa by asphalt... Environmentalism is a pretty arbitrary reason to chose to be vegan. Just grow some balls and say you dont want to eat it because you don't want to eat it. Giving me a reason makes me want to judge its rational.

You sound like another South Park intellectual.  There are plenty of environmental reasons to oppose the mass consumption of meat, from the amount of fresh water used to the amount of waste produced.  There are other reasons, from personal health to animal welfare, and each person has a different balance of these values in making decisions in their lives.  When you say "all vegans are tools", you expose a general, pervasive ignorance and assume that you have all the knowledge necessary to make decisions for other people.  You obviously know nothing about my reasons outside of a snippet of a conversation that you were not a part of.  My biggest issue is with the large-scale, low-ethics production.  How about my dad's wife?  She just recently discovered a polyp in her colon.  Man, she sure is a tool for wanting to follow my lead and eat fewer animals, am I right?  Point and laugh at her biased propaganda!  Honestly, eat what you want, but don't be such an asshole about it.



And you know that polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Keep in mind, the whole "OMG, MEAT STAYS IN YOUR COLON FOR DAYS!!!1!!" is bullshiat.
 
2013-03-15 03:42:06 PM  
Predictably, in this thread...

loveforlife.com.au

/yea, a veritable army of them
 
2013-03-15 03:46:08 PM  
cl.jroo.me
 
2013-03-15 03:48:35 PM  

cousin-merle: Teufelaffe: I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times.

I have a hard time believing this has ever happened, but it's past noon and time to get back to thinking about beer.  I hope to murder some brettanomyces and lactobacillus soon.


I should expound; these encounters were at parties, so there had been some alcohol consumed by these folks (I don't drink...hate the taste of alcohol).  That's why I politely extricate myself.  If these were sober people talking to me like that, I'd tell them to go fark themselves.

I can only assume that it's something to do with this area of the country.  I've been all over the US, and I have never encountered more rude people than in New England.  For instance, it's the only place I've ever been where the server in more than one restaurant has greeted me with an impatient "Whaddya want?"
 
2013-03-15 03:49:19 PM  

Teufelaffe: It usually goes like this:

Me: *says something that has nothing whatsoever to do with food, diets, the environment, sustainability, or animal welfare*
Vegan: "That's nice.  So, have you tried the new Vegan bacon burrito at the co-op deli?"
Me: "No, I don't get to the co-op much."
Vegan: "Oh, are you a...Meat Eater?" (Those last two words are usually dripping with disdain.)
Me: "Yes, I eat meat."
Vegan: *rant about how I'm helping destroy the world, perpetuate suffering, and am just an all around terrible human being and I should become a Vegan so I can stop being so awful*

I get this shiat on a regular basis, almost always out of the farking blue.  I am always polite to them, I never provoke their tirades, and I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times.  I never comment on their chosen lifestyle or diet and usually just excuse myself as soon as I can when they start haranguing me.


Ah, the rare "Internet Meek Guy." Well played!

I ought to 'shoop up an "ITG Magazine" equivalent, but outside of persecution-by-rabid-vegan threads, it's hardly ever necessary.

/Seriously, though, no one believes this or anything remotely like it has actually happened to you.
 
2013-03-15 03:52:02 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: And you know that polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Keep in mind, the whole "OMG, MEAT STAYS IN YOUR COLON FOR DAYS!!!1!!" is bullshiat.


Thanks, I'll be sure to pass on your expert medical opinion to her doctor and the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons.
 
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