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(Huffington Post)   The "secret ingredient" in Guinness will make vegans squirm... which means more Guinness for those of us who understand humans are omnivores   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 198
    More: Spiffy, Guinness, Diageo, vesica piscis, ingredients, vegetarians, food allergies  
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20506 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2013 at 10:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 09:49:19 AM
Like the whole world is going to quit drinking Guinness because the vegos are upset.  More for the rest of us.
 
2013-03-15 10:21:53 AM
It used to be blood.
 
2013-03-15 10:22:25 AM
I might actually buy more now.
 
2013-03-15 10:23:32 AM
Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?
 
2013-03-15 10:26:18 AM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


They are not very cute or furry.
 
2013-03-15 10:26:26 AM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


I've never understood that.  One of my friends said it was about not eating anything with a face.  I then pointed out how many insects were killed making his clothes and he got mad at me.
 
2013-03-15 10:29:04 AM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.
 
2013-03-15 10:29:42 AM
I always thought Guinness had a certain "wang" go it...
 
2013-03-15 10:30:22 AM
Something's fishy.
 
2013-03-15 10:30:23 AM
Nice. More evidence that Guinness counts as a meal.
 
2013-03-15 10:30:41 AM

Molavian: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

I've never understood that.  One of my friends said it was about not eating anything with a face.  I then pointed out how many insects were killed making his clothes and he got mad at me.


Headless pig OK?
 
2013-03-15 10:31:32 AM
Humans eat these?

i141.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-15 10:31:47 AM
Many home brew kits. both wine and beer, come with a package of isinglass for fining, Maybe the fish just donate it, and none are harmed in the making etc. Anyway, vegans are weenies so TFA is rather pointless.
 
2013-03-15 10:33:24 AM

CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.


well, isn't fish bladder oil a lot more user friendly than ground up horse hooves (or whatever goes into gelatin)?

i mean, at least the pescaterians can still drink.

/ has a wife that occasionally avoids the mammals.  so, fish and birds... but, she only avoids cooking it.  if someone else makes it, she'll eat it.  since, like the dala lamai said, it's already dead, you might as well spare the feelings of your host.
 
2013-03-15 10:33:58 AM
It's the isinglass that comes from animals.  Technically, lettuce and alfalfa sprouts are also living organisms, but that doesn't seem to bother them.
 
2013-03-15 10:34:14 AM

CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.


We used to use the stuff here. Pain in the butt, but it really helped with fining the stuff, extending the life of the filters and speeding up a transfer.

Last we spent $150k on a 100bbl an hour centrifuge and stopped using isinglass completely

Damn thing sound like jet engine while running though
 
2013-03-15 10:34:28 AM
It's a bar towel, isn't it? I bet it's a bar towel.
 
2013-03-15 10:34:40 AM
TFA says that Guinness Black Lager isn't suitable for vegetarians, I didn't think it was suitable for anybody.  They should be ashamed at putting their name on such an awful product.
 
2013-03-15 10:36:32 AM
Vegans enjoy the exploitation and slaughter of innocent suffering plants.
 
2013-03-15 10:36:48 AM

CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.


I tend to think of alcohol as yeast pee, rather than a yeast death by-product, This will make it more palatable to Vegans, who are used to being pissed on by real meat-eating alpha males.
 
2013-03-15 10:38:29 AM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


Organisms?  Plants are organisms.

Look.  People who try to hunt down every semi-exception to vegan food in this world and then point and laugh at vegans are kinda dicks.  Going vegetarian is pretty much the best thing you can do, environmentally, given how much energy goes into feeding and keeping livestock.  Plus, they're not exactly treated well.

/eats meat.
//lots of meat.
 
2013-03-15 10:39:50 AM
Um, my ultra-vegan sister told me this quite a few years ago while we were hanging out and I was drinking a Guinness. I kept drinking my Guinness. Then ordered another.
 
2013-03-15 10:44:14 AM

pag1107: They should be ashamed at putting their name on such an awful product.


Anyone I know whose had it has said it's quite nice. I think it's been pulled off the market now, anyway
 
2013-03-15 10:44:37 AM
How can you tell who is a vegan at a dinner party?

Don't worry... they will tell you.
 
2013-03-15 10:44:58 AM
Great.... Now I want fish maw soup.
 
2013-03-15 10:45:20 AM
Luckily, most good beer doesn't use isinglass or gelatin.  Enjoy your colon cancer, haters.
 
2013-03-15 10:45:46 AM

Cerebral Knievel: Last we spent $150k on a 100bbl an hour centrifuge and stopped using isinglass completely

Damn thing sound like jet engine while running though


Any time I see a centrifuge in a brewery I picture the thing coming unbolted while it's running. They scare me.
 
2013-03-15 10:46:31 AM

pute kisses like a man: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

well, isn't fish bladder oil a lot more user friendly than ground up horse hooves (or whatever goes into gelatin)?

i mean, at least the pescaterians can still drink.

/ has a wife that occasionally avoids the mammals.  so, fish and birds... but, she only avoids cooking it.  if someone else makes it, she'll eat it.  since, like the dala lamai said, it's already dead, you might as well spare the feelings of your host.


1.  It isn't oil.
2.  Why would it be more "user-friendly"?  Either a bunch of fish died to make the isinglass, or a bunch of ungulates died to make the gelatin.
 
2013-03-15 10:48:04 AM

Cerebral Knievel: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

We used to use the stuff here. Pain in the butt, but it really helped with fining the stuff, extending the life of the filters and speeding up a transfer.

Last we spent $150k on a 100bbl an hour centrifuge and stopped using isinglass completely

Damn thing sound like jet engine while running though


I used to use gelatin to fine my homebrew, mostly because it was easier to get/cheaper than isinglass.  Then I decided I didn't care.  Leaving the yeast in means more B vitamins in the end product.
 
2013-03-15 10:49:30 AM
Ok, I actually prefer brown ales to stouts, but just for this, I'm having a Guiness tonight.
 
2013-03-15 10:50:02 AM

Farxist Marxist: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

I tend to think of alcohol as yeast pee, rather than a yeast death by-product, This will make it more palatable to Vegans, who are used to being pissed on by real meat-eating alpha males.


Pfft.  What do you think happens to the yeast after it's done fermenting the wort?  You think the brewery releases it back into the wild, or sends it off to live out the remainder of it's days at Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?  No.  It's MURDERED.  BEER IS MURDER.

\off to have a Guinness
 
2013-03-15 10:51:17 AM

CheekyMonkey: I used to use gelatin to fine my homebrew, mostly because it was easier to get/cheaper than isinglass.  Then I decided I didn't care.  Leaving the yeast in means more B vitamins in the end product.


I use Irish moss.  Regardless of the vegetarian aspect, if you've ever had a beer that was improperly fined with gelatin, you would never want to use it again.  Gooey gelatinous beer is really gross (thanks for the experience Fantome).
 
2013-03-15 10:51:43 AM
Since when is it a secret that many breweries in the world use Isinglass for fining? Sure, they could use Protafloc/Karragen, but it's most likely more expensive.
 
2013-03-15 10:53:58 AM

CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.


Umm, yeast is a fungus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast , Vegans have no problem eating mushrooms.
 
2013-03-15 10:54:51 AM

CapeFearCadaver: Um, my ultra-vegan sister told me this quite a few years ago while we were hanging out and I was drinking a Guinness. I kept drinking my Guinness. Then ordered another.


Edgy, man.  I almost got cut reading that.
 
2013-03-15 10:54:52 AM
http://www.barnivore.com/beer

Sam Smith > Guinness
 
2013-03-15 10:55:32 AM
Eating meat is natural
Not eating meat is a choice.
 
2013-03-15 10:55:40 AM

Benjamin Orr: Great.... Now I want fish maw soup.


Enjoy.
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-15 10:57:14 AM

cousin-merle: CheekyMonkey: I used to use gelatin to fine my homebrew, mostly because it was easier to get/cheaper than isinglass.  Then I decided I didn't care.  Leaving the yeast in means more B vitamins in the end product.

I use Irish moss.  Regardless of the vegetarian aspect, if you've ever had a beer that was improperly fined with gelatin, you would never want to use it again.  Gooey gelatinous beer is really gross (thanks for the experience Fantome).


Sounds pretty gross.  Never ran into that problem myself, and like I said, eventually I stopped using finings at all.  A couple of weeks in the secondary, and most of the yeast falls out of suspension on it's own.  Plus, most of what I make is stouts & porters, so it's not like I'm going to read the newspaper through it anyway...
 
2013-03-15 10:57:20 AM
That's sad.  The Huffington Post has to hire someone with a regular sense of humor.  At least, remove the word "fish" from the headline.

I would have gone with, "Guinness presents Bladder Problem for the Anally Retentive."
 
2013-03-15 10:57:49 AM
ok DNRTFA but regular Guinnnes did used to use the non-vegan process but changed over in 2012. If they are talking about Guinness black then I have no idea.

/Don't hate on me my s/o is the one with the 12 year vegan chip.
 
2013-03-15 11:02:47 AM

Ivo Shandor: Benjamin Orr: Great.... Now I want fish maw soup.

Enjoy.


Meh. Put enough hot sauce on it and it would probably taste fine.
 
2013-03-15 11:03:15 AM

MindStalker: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

Umm, yeast is a fungus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast , Vegans have no problem eating mushrooms.


The difference is, a yeast cell is the entire organism, a mushroom is not.  Eating a mushroom (the fruiting body of the fungus) is akin to eating an apple, not the entire tree.  The organism itself, the mycelium, is still living in the growing medium, whether it be soil in the case of white button mushrooms, or oak limbs in the case of shiatakes.
 
2013-03-15 11:04:35 AM
as someone drinking a pint of guinness at the moment, I would like to state that I dont care one bit
 
2013-03-15 11:05:35 AM
And here I thought they used mule and donkey bladders in the process.
 
2013-03-15 11:06:26 AM

CheekyMonkey: The difference is, a yeast cell is the entire organism, a mushroom is not.  Eating a mushroom (the fruiting body of the fungus) is akin to eating an apple, not the entire tree.  The organism itself, the mycelium, is still living in the growing medium, whether it be soil in the case of white button mushrooms, or oak limbs in the case of shiatakes.


Vegans eat onions, which is the entire organism.  Jains try not to kill the plant.
 
2013-03-15 11:09:50 AM
Guinness sucks ass. It's probably the worst stout in existence.
 
2013-03-15 11:12:23 AM
Vegans know that eating animals are unavoidable, and they eat animals every day, right?
 
2013-03-15 11:13:11 AM

cousin-merle: CheekyMonkey: The difference is, a yeast cell is the entire organism, a mushroom is not.  Eating a mushroom (the fruiting body of the fungus) is akin to eating an apple, not the entire tree.  The organism itself, the mycelium, is still living in the growing medium, whether it be soil in the case of white button mushrooms, or oak limbs in the case of shiatakes.

Vegans eat onions, which is the entire organism.  Jains try not to kill the plant.


Vegans don't give a shiat about plants.  I was just pointing out that killing the entire organism (yeast cell) is different than eating the fruiting body of a mushroom.

Also, while I haven't tried it personally, I've heard that you can take the root end of an onion that you sliced off when you peeled it, plant it, and it will grow into another onion.  I start all my onions and leeks from seed, but if I have extra room in that planting bed this year, perhaps I'll give it a try...
 
2013-03-15 11:14:21 AM

wambu: And here I thought they used mule and donkey bladders in the process.


That's Budweiser, and they're using the contents of those bladders, not the bladders themselves...
 
2013-03-15 11:20:17 AM

punkhippie: Guinness sucks ass. It's probably the worst stout in existence.


Yeah, probably not.  It's no Old Rasputin, but it's a good low-calorie, low-alcohol beer, perfect for drinking while doing yard work.
 
2013-03-15 11:20:56 AM

trappedspirit: CapeFearCadaver: Um, my ultra-vegan sister told me this quite a few years ago while we were hanging out and I was drinking a Guinness. I kept drinking my Guinness. Then ordered another.

Edgy, man.  I almost got cut reading that.


That's exactly what I was going for. Need some cornstarch to help any bleeding? Or is the blood from somewhere else? ;)
 
WGJ
2013-03-15 11:24:46 AM
I thought they weren't drinking it anyways because they use rats for flavoring.
 
2013-03-15 11:26:50 AM

oldernell: Like the whole world is going to quit drinking Guinness because the vegos are upset.  More for the rest of us.


   Well, the jobless hippies made a great deal of people feel guilty about being human with the global warming bullshiat so this wouldn't surprise me considering the lack of common sense in your average gullible politically correct citizen.
 
2013-03-15 11:32:49 AM
Every Vegan I've ever met knows this already!  Vegans routinely research items they consume, in an effort to stay connected to their choices, shouldn't we all?
 
2013-03-15 11:34:48 AM

CheekyMonkey: pute kisses like a man: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

well, isn't fish bladder oil a lot more user friendly than ground up horse hooves (or whatever goes into gelatin)?

i mean, at least the pescaterians can still drink.

/ has a wife that occasionally avoids the mammals.  so, fish and birds... but, she only avoids cooking it.  if someone else makes it, she'll eat it.  since, like the dala lamai said, it's already dead, you might as well spare the feelings of your host.

1.  It isn't oil.
2.  Why would it be more "user-friendly"?  Either a bunch of fish died to make the isinglass, or a bunch of ungulates died to make the gelatin.



The fish are probably commercially caught anyway so the meat is sold for food, and isenglass is simply a leftover that would otherwise end up in the trash.
 
2013-03-15 11:37:30 AM

CheekyMonkey: Also, while I haven't tried it personally, I've heard that you can take the root end of an onion that you sliced off when you peeled it, plant it, and it will grow into another onion.  I start all my onions and leeks from seed, but if I have extra room in that planting bed this year, perhaps I'll give it a try...


I have done this with onions and pineapple tops.
 
2013-03-15 11:41:21 AM
Having recently tried Flying Dog's Pearl Necklace Oyster Stout (brewed with real oysters), I'm getting a kick
 
2013-03-15 11:42:06 AM

CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.


Vegans should stay away from everything.  There is nothing, no consumer good or foodstuff, that does not exist without the exploitation of something living.
 
2013-03-15 11:45:41 AM

Mr. Breeze: CheekyMonkey: pute kisses like a man: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

well, isn't fish bladder oil a lot more user friendly than ground up horse hooves (or whatever goes into gelatin)?

i mean, at least the pescaterians can still drink.

/ has a wife that occasionally avoids the mammals.  so, fish and birds... but, she only avoids cooking it.  if someone else makes it, she'll eat it.  since, like the dala lamai said, it's already dead, you might as well spare the feelings of your host.

1.  It isn't oil.
2.  Why would it be more "user-friendly"?  Either a bunch of fish died to make the isinglass, or a bunch of ungulates died to make the gelatin.


The fish are probably commercially caught anyway so the meat is sold for food, and isenglass is simply a leftover that would otherwise end up in the trash.


Gelatin is the same.
 
2013-03-15 11:45:50 AM

Teufelaffe: Vegans should stay away from everything.  There is nothing, no consumer good or foodstuff, that does not exist without the exploitation of something living.


So don't bother.  Let's just throw our trash in the street and pee out the window too.
 
2013-03-15 11:47:45 AM
Do vegans not care about the microorganisms in the food they eat as well? They have feelings too dammit.
 
2013-03-15 11:48:34 AM

cousin-merle: CheekyMonkey: Also, while I haven't tried it personally, I've heard that you can take the root end of an onion that you sliced off when you peeled it, plant it, and it will grow into another onion.  I start all my onions and leeks from seed, but if I have extra room in that planting bed this year, perhaps I'll give it a try...

I have done this with onions and pineapple tops.


I tried a couple of times, but never had success with pineapple tops.  Did you plant the whole cut-off pineapple top, or twist out the leaves and just plant them?
 
2013-03-15 11:50:58 AM
there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur
 
2013-03-15 11:51:47 AM
Why do people even like Guinness Draught?  It tastes like it was flavored with pencil lead :-P
 
2013-03-15 11:52:59 AM

CheekyMonkey: I tried a couple of times, but never had success with pineapple tops.  Did you plant the whole cut-off pineapple top, or twist out the leaves and just plant them?


I followed this, and it has photos of what you should be seeing when you slice it up.

http://www.rickswoodshopcreations.com/pineapple/pineapple.htm
 
2013-03-15 12:01:11 PM

cousin-merle: Teufelaffe: Vegans should stay away from everything.  There is nothing, no consumer good or foodstuff, that does not exist without the exploitation of something living.

So don't bother.  Let's just throw our trash in the street and pee out the window too.


That's exactly what I'm suggesting.  It's like you read my mind!  Or, maybe I was pointing out the unintended consequences of Veganism.  All Vegans have really managed accomplish is getting a feeling superiority and the destruction of farmland (and a detrimental effect on local dietary habits) in South America in order to meet the increased demand for quinoa as an export.  But I'm sure that smugness they feel will help recover those over-farmed areas any day now.
 
2013-03-15 12:01:30 PM

cousin-merle: CheekyMonkey: I tried a couple of times, but never had success with pineapple tops.  Did you plant the whole cut-off pineapple top, or twist out the leaves and just plant them?

I followed this, and it has photos of what you should be seeing when you slice it up.

http://www.rickswoodshopcreations.com/pineapple/pineapple.htm


Thanks!  This explains why it wasn't working for me - I was just planting the sliced-off top.  As luck would have it, there's a pineapple sitting at home right now...
 
2013-03-15 12:01:53 PM

cousin-merle: Sam Smith > Guinness


THIS.  Guinness is pretty much a "meh" stout at best.  I'll drink it if there isn't anything else available.

/got my bar towel though.
 
2013-03-15 12:15:38 PM

Teufelaffe: That's exactly what I'm suggesting.  It's like you read my mind!  Or, maybe I was pointing out the unintended consequences of Veganism.  All Vegans have really managed accomplish is getting a feeling superiority and the destruction of farmland (and a detrimental effect on local dietary habits) in South America in order to meet the increased demand for quinoa as an export.  But I'm sure that smugness they feel will help recover those over-farmed areas any day now.


Yeah, because destroying hundreds of thousands of square miles of rainforest for cattle ranching is so much better for South America.  Not everything is equally bad.  You think you are making an intelligent point, but you're not.  Sure, there can be unintended consequences, but the status quo is orders of magnitude worse.
 
2013-03-15 12:16:46 PM

RedVentrue: Vegans know that eating animals are unavoidable, and they eat animals every day, right?


Nice grammar, perhaps the animal fats are clogging your brain!  How is eating animals unavoidable? Animals cannot make their own nutrients, they come strictly from plant based sources. When you eat the animals "bladder" (in this case) or any other part, ALL nutrients you derive from it were originally obtained through plants, true fact, look it up.

Vegans don't eat animals everyday, they never eat them, or eggs, or dairy, or cheese, or anything that compromises the integrity of sentient beings.

...Bring it on down to Veganville!
 
2013-03-15 12:16:48 PM
FISHAY FISHAAAAAAY!!!!
 
2013-03-15 12:22:26 PM
i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-15 12:22:55 PM

cousin-merle: I use Irish moss.  Regardless of the vegetarian aspect, if you've ever had a beer that was improperly fined with gelatin, you would never want to use it again.  Gooey gelatinous beer is really gross (thanks for the experience Fantome).


Irish moss doesn't work well. Gelatin works really well. Cold-crashing by itself works pretty good.

I'm surprised that Guinness still uses fining agents. I thought that they'd be more efficient than that.
 
2013-03-15 12:28:51 PM

trappedspirit: Humans eat these?


I miss OMNI so much.

Has the "Guinness sucks" started yet?  Because it does.  No matter what they put in it.
 
2013-03-15 12:30:11 PM

CheekyMonkey: cousin-merle: CheekyMonkey: I tried a couple of times, but never had success with pineapple tops.  Did you plant the whole cut-off pineapple top, or twist out the leaves and just plant them?

I followed this, and it has photos of what you should be seeing when you slice it up.

http://www.rickswoodshopcreations.com/pineapple/pineapple.htm

Thanks!  This explains why it wasn't working for me - I was just planting the sliced-off top.  As luck would have it, there's a pineapple sitting at home right now...


That the deal where you pull off the leaves then slice down to expose the root buds in the core? 'Cuz, that's how i do it. Got about five plants going right now. No fruit, so they are pretty much just ornamental.

Of course if you are in a more tropical environment, like Florida, you might get away with just tossing the cut off top out into the back yard
 
2013-03-15 12:36:33 PM

cousin-merle: Teufelaffe: That's exactly what I'm suggesting.  It's like you read my mind!  Or, maybe I was pointing out the unintended consequences of Veganism.  All Vegans have really managed accomplish is getting a feeling superiority and the destruction of farmland (and a detrimental effect on local dietary habits) in South America in order to meet the increased demand for quinoa as an export.  But I'm sure that smugness they feel will help recover those over-farmed areas any day now.

Yeah, because destroying hundreds of thousands of square miles of rainforest for cattle ranching is so much better for South America.  Not everything is equally bad.  You think you are making an intelligent point, but you're not.  Sure, there can be unintended consequences, but the status quo is orders of magnitude worse.


Not saying they're equally bad, but when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?  I haven't yet, but maybe the Vegans you've met haven't been self-righteous douche-rockets who make a point to express just how superior they are to "meat eaters".  And this is shiat that comes up in conversations that are entirely unrelated to diet mind you. In my experience, most Vegans are just another version of the anti-fur people who wear leather or the Earth First! folks who drive gasoline-fueled cars.  They're more than happy to tell other people how horrible their choices are, but they never seem to be willing to cop to consequences of their own.
 
2013-03-15 12:42:56 PM

Molavian: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

I've never understood that.  One of my friends said it was about not eating anything with a face.  I then pointed out how many insects were killed making his clothes and he got mad at me.


He should have gotten mad at you. You almost broke the delicate glass bubble that is his world.
lakecityquietpills.com
 
2013-03-15 12:44:02 PM
The vegans I know are aware of isinglass and either make their own beer or drink wine.
 
2013-03-15 12:47:02 PM

Cormee: pag1107: They should be ashamed at putting their name on such an awful product.

Anyone I know whose had it has said it's quite nice. I think it's been pulled off the market now, anyway


Guinness Black? Naw, still around. They're marketing it hard still, giving cases and cases away for free at "urban hipster" stuff if SF, like art openings and stuff. I've probably had thirty of them in the past two weeks...they're not very good but they're very free, so, I'll have thirty more real soon.

/unless it IS pulled and they're just making me drink their garbage
 
2013-03-15 12:47:12 PM
If everyone were vegan domestic cows, chickens, pigs, sheep and dogs would go extinct.

Wolves would mutate into giant creatures that feed upon the flesh of the larger mammels and famine would cross the land as wild species of rabbits take over spreading mixamatosis to people.

It would be the end ofcivilization
.

But don't let that stop those selfish vegans.
 
2013-03-15 12:47:51 PM
That must explain why the Irish drink like fishes.

How many Irish does it take to change a light bulb?
3. One to hold the bulb still and two to drink until the room  spins.

What's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish Funeral?
One less drunk.
 
2013-03-15 12:48:49 PM

Scrotastic Method: /unless it IS pulled and they're just making me drink their garbage


This would be an outrage!
 
2013-03-15 12:50:49 PM

punkhippie: Guinness sucks ass. It's probably the worst stout in existence.


Probably because you're not drinking it right....
farm3.static.flickr.com

/of course enough Bailey's and Jameson will make anything taste good.
 
2013-03-15 12:55:49 PM

Teufelaffe: when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?


Its far less destructive.

When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!

Fact is, eating meat is cruel, self serving, and unnecessary.
 
2013-03-15 12:56:24 PM

CleanAndPure: If everyone were vegan domestic cows, chickens, pigs, sheep and dogs would go extinct.

Wolves would mutate into giant creatures that feed upon the flesh of the larger mammels and famine would cross the land as wild species of rabbits take over spreading mixamatosis to people.

It would be the end ofcivilization
.

But don't let that stop those selfish vegans.


Well, except for the fact that most wolves don't feed primarily on domestic livestock meaning that the extinction of domestic livestock wouldn't result in mutant wolves, and domestic dogs wouldn't go extinct because people stopped eating meat, and the animal species that would go extinct should we stop cultivating them don't feed on rabbits, meaning that there wouldn't be a sudden rabbit population boom, your SyFy Movie of the Week scenario is perfectly plausible.
 
2013-03-15 12:57:08 PM

Scrotastic Method: Cormee: pag1107: They should be ashamed at putting their name on such an awful product.

Anyone I know whose had it has said it's quite nice. I think it's been pulled off the market now, anyway

Guinness Black? Naw, still around. They're marketing it hard still, giving cases and cases away for free at "urban hipster" stuff if SF, like art openings and stuff. I've probably had thirty of them in the past two weeks...they're not very good but they're very free, so, I'll have thirty more real soon.

/unless it IS pulled and they're just making me drink their garbage


Maybe it's just in Ireland it was pulled, I was planning on trying one then someone mentioned it was no longer on the market.

Or maybe I just imagined it all.
 
2013-03-15 12:57:44 PM

Lusebagage: Fact is, eating meat is cruel, self serving, and unnecessary.


And delicious.
 
2013-03-15 12:59:41 PM

Lusebagage: Every Vegan I've ever met knows this already!  Vegans routinely research items they consume, in an effort to stay connected to their choices, shouldn't we all?


Speaking of veganism and research, I finally tried cooking a steak sous vide.  Based on internet research, I tried the "beer cooler" method.  Instant review:  it was cheap, hilariously easy, and outstanding.

First, I used a 5-gallon Rubbermaid water-jug cooler, the ubiquitous "gatorade dispenser" cooler.  This is 30 bucks at Home Depot, and has the advantage that you can drain water from the bottom.

Next, I turned on my basement water tap good and hot, and filled the cooler. A digital thermometer read 136 degrees, which is actually hotter than what I needed.  I can cook a steak using tap water!  The cooler lost maybe 1-2 degrees per hour, which is more than stable enough to cook a steak.

Next next, I tried the immersion trick for vacuum-sealing a steak in a bag without a vacuum-sealer.  You simply put the steak in a ziploc bag, lower it in the water, and let the water pressure push the bag together and the air out.  Close the bag and it's nigh-vacuum sealed.  This costs $0 in vacuum-sealing equipment.

Next next next, I hung the bag with clothespins from a bit of gardening twine over the top of the cooler, immersing it in the middle of the water.  After an hour, I took it out and slapped it on a hot hot hot pan until the outside looked brown enough.  The end result was perfect, uniformly medium rare straight through, on the first try.  I can't wait to try this with a grill when the weather gets nice.

Observations:  first, I didn't get much success with an instant-read thermometer to check the water.  If you amend the water temperature by stirring in cold or hot water, you need to keep a thermometer in there for a while to get an accurate reading.  I got 130F on an instant-read, so I thought everything was fine, but I left it in the water for 10 minutes, and it read 140F!!  So now I use a digital oven thermometer with the long cable sheathed in silicone, and leave it in the water the whole time.  Next time, I'll tape the thermocouple over the bag.

Observation II:  I have to leave the basement tap on for the water to heat up.  The first time I did this, I filled the cooler until the water was hot, measured the temperature for data collection purposes (120F), then dumped the water and filled it again from the now-hot water tap (136F).    The second time I did this, I poured the initial water into a bucket, then filled the cooler when the water got hot.  The temperature didn't hit the same target, and it dropped a few degrees unpredictably at the start.  The moral:  use the cooler to hold the warm-up water, and let it sit a while to "warm the pot."  Like making tea.

Observation III:  130F is halfway between boiling and the temperature of my cold water tap.  Combine this with the "gatorade cooler" and you get a surprisingly simple formula to keep the water at 130F forever.  Measure the water temperature and determine how many degrees you need to change it to make it 130.  Divide this number by 80:  that's the fraction of the bath water you need to exchange with boiling water or cold tap water to make it hit 130.  For example, I want 130F and I measure 125F.  5/80=1/16, and I have 4 gallons in the tank.  I need to drain 4*1/16=1 quart of water and pour in 1 quart of boiling water.   Now it's 130F.

I now have to improvise something that lets me hang the steak bags while keeping the lid screwed on tightly.
 
2013-03-15 01:00:27 PM

Lusebagage: Teufelaffe: when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?

Its far less destructive.

When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!

Fact is, eating meat is cruel, self serving, and unnecessary.



 Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about.  Imagine that.
 
2013-03-15 01:02:54 PM

CleanAndPure: If everyone were vegan domestic cows, chickens, pigs, sheep and dogs would go extinct.


Good! Fact is, the only reason we have domesticated farm animals like cows and pigs is so humans can exploit them for their own means.
 
2013-03-15 01:06:14 PM
Yeti Imperial Stout, Tallgrass Buffalo Sweat, and Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout. 3 superior stouts to Guiness just off the top of my head. No fish bladder required.
 
2013-03-15 01:10:13 PM

Lusebagage: CleanAndPure: If everyone were vegan domestic cows, chickens, pigs, sheep and dogs would go extinct.

Good! Fact is, the only reason we have domesticated farm animals like cows and pigs is so humans can exploit them for their own means.


You mean like for farming, which is what most of the world uses them for, since they can't afford machinery? Oh and the abject poverty, let me tell you of the severe poverty afflicting most of the world's farmers and farm workers - some even right here in the good ol' USA!

It must be nice being a first world vegetarian. You get to eat whatever you want, and not have to think about the toil and misery that got your bean burritos and gaspacho to you. That blood? It's not from the beets.
 
2013-03-15 01:10:33 PM

CheekyMonkey: Mr. Breeze: CheekyMonkey: pute kisses like a man: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

well, isn't fish bladder oil a lot more user friendly than ground up horse hooves (or whatever goes into gelatin)?

i mean, at least the pescaterians can still drink.

/ has a wife that occasionally avoids the mammals.  so, fish and birds... but, she only avoids cooking it.  if someone else makes it, she'll eat it.  since, like the dala lamai said, it's already dead, you might as well spare the feelings of your host.

1.  It isn't oil.
2.  Why would it be more "user-friendly"?  Either a bunch of fish died to make the isinglass, or a bunch of ungulates died to make the gelatin.


The fish are probably commercially caught anyway so the meat is sold for food, and isenglass is simply a leftover that would otherwise end up in the trash.

Gelatin is the same.


because gelatin comes from charismatic super fauna, while isinglass comes from dirty bottom feeding fish that nobody really likes all that much unless you're a mermaid.
 
2013-03-15 01:14:55 PM

Teufelaffe: Not saying they're equally bad, but when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?  I haven't yet, but maybe the Vegans you've met haven't been self-righteous douche-rockets who make a point to express just how superior they are to "meat eaters".  And this is shiat that comes up in conversations that are entirely unrelated to diet mind you. In my experience, most Vegans are just another version of the anti-fur people who wear leather or the Earth First! folks who drive gasoline-fueled cars.  They're more than happy to tell other people how horrible their choices are, but they never seem to be willing to cop to consequences of their own.


I know tons of vegans (personally, I still do cheese if I can get it without rennet), and literally zero of them are the way you describe.  The vegans I know think it would be good if others stopped eating meat (or at least stopped contributing to large-scale factory farming), but couldn't give a damn what other people do in their free time.  Usually, they are less inclined to say anything because every macho man-child feels the need to make a pithy comment when they find out someone doesn't eat meat (and it's usually one of the same three "jokes" that have already been repeated in this thread).  Perhaps if you spent less time insulting them, they would be nicer to you.  Telling people they are wasting their time because their choices aren't perfect (in a world where there are no perfect choices) isn't exactly productive.  Have you ever considered that you're the one coming across as preachy and smug by taking this tack?  Do you actually give two shiats about the poor quinoa farmers and llamas in the Andes?  I doubt it; seems like you have a lot of hate and are just looking for a cudgel.
 
2013-03-15 01:15:46 PM

Znuh: It used to be blood.


I used to play video games with a Swede who swore there was blood in Guinness. I didn't exactly disbelieve him. Swedes take their drinking pretty seriously. Also their piracy. I think there's still a lot of viking blood floating around over yonder. He got me banned from a text MUD like 5 different times for causing too much trouble.

/cheers Vraurk, the Supreme Ravaging Bastard of the High Seas
 
2013-03-15 01:16:15 PM

Cormee: Scrotastic Method: Cormee: pag1107: They should be ashamed at putting their name on such an awful product.

Anyone I know whose had it has said it's quite nice. I think it's been pulled off the market now, anyway

Guinness Black? Naw, still around. They're marketing it hard still, giving cases and cases away for free at "urban hipster" stuff if SF, like art openings and stuff. I've probably had thirty of them in the past two weeks...they're not very good but they're very free, so, I'll have thirty more real soon.

/unless it IS pulled and they're just making me drink their garbage

Maybe it's just in Ireland it was pulled, I was planning on trying one then someone mentioned it was no longer on the market.

Or maybe I just imagined it all.


Well I've never tried to buy it, but I've had it served to me in a few art galleries over the past two months, as recently as Saturday.
 
2013-03-15 01:17:07 PM

verbaltoxin: ...and not have to think about the toil and misery that got your bean burritos and gaspacho to you. That blood? It's not from the beets.


Funny!
 
2013-03-15 01:17:09 PM
The problem with argument threads on fark is that by the time you idiots post, you're already wrong.
 
2013-03-15 01:17:34 PM
I thought this was common knowledge?
 
2013-03-15 01:31:35 PM

cousin-merle: Teufelaffe: Not saying they're equally bad, but when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?  I haven't yet, but maybe the Vegans you've met haven't been self-righteous douche-rockets who make a point to express just how superior they are to "meat eaters".  And this is shiat that comes up in conversations that are entirely unrelated to diet mind you. In my experience, most Vegans are just another version of the anti-fur people who wear leather or the Earth First! folks who drive gasoline-fueled cars.  They're more than happy to tell other people how horrible their choices are, but they never seem to be willing to cop to consequences of their own.

I know tons of vegans (personally, I still do cheese if I can get it without rennet), and literally zero of them are the way you describe.  The vegans I know think it would be good if others stopped eating meat (or at least stopped contributing to large-scale factory farming), but couldn't give a damn what other people do in their free time.  Usually, they are less inclined to say anything because every macho man-child feels the need to make a pithy comment when they find out someone doesn't eat meat (and it's usually one of the same three "jokes" that have already been repeated in this thread).  Perhaps if you spent less time insulting them, they would be nicer to you.  Telling people they are wasting their time because their choices aren't perfect (in a world where there are no perfect choices) isn't exactly productive.  Have you ever considered that you're the one coming across as preachy and smug by taking this tack?  Do you actually give two shiats about the poor quinoa farmers and llamas in the Andes?  I doubt it; seems like you have a lot of hate and are just looking for a cudgel.


Nice assumptions you're making there.   I am much more reserved in real life than I am on Fark.  I generally don't talk about diet or food with people, yet I get to hear about how fabulous being a Vegan is and how it makes you smarter, better in bed, morally superior, etc from people with no provocation.  It usually goes like this:

Me: *says something that has nothing whatsoever to do with food, diets, the environment, sustainability, or animal welfare*
Vegan: "That's nice.  So, have you tried the new Vegan bacon burrito at the co-op deli?"
Me: "No, I don't get to the co-op much."
Vegan: "Oh, are you a...Meat Eater?" (Those last two words are usually dripping with disdain.)
Me: "Yes, I eat meat."
Vegan: *rant about how I'm helping destroy the world, perpetuate suffering, and am just an all around terrible human being and I should become a Vegan so I can stop being so awful*

I get this shiat on a regular basis, almost always out of the farking blue.  I am always polite to them, I never provoke their tirades, and I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times.  I never comment on their chosen lifestyle or diet and usually just excuse myself as soon as I can when they start haranguing me.  Maybe it's a Southern Vermont thing, but the Vegans I've met here have been Grade A assholes.
 
2013-03-15 01:33:21 PM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.


Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposalEnergy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle diseaseBiodiversity loss, to name a few.
 
2013-03-15 01:38:15 PM

wambu: And here I thought they used mule and donkey bladders in the process.



No, you use those, along with sheeps bladders, to prevent earthquakes. SCIENCE!
 
2013-03-15 01:39:08 PM
Bladders, they're not just for preventing earthquakes anymore.
 
2013-03-15 01:39:10 PM

Lusebagage: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.

Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposal,  Energy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle disease,  Biodiversity loss, to name a few.



Allowing the human population to increase does the same thing.
 
2013-03-15 01:40:10 PM

CheekyMonkey:  Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?


Welcome to my new Fark username!
 
2013-03-15 01:42:54 PM

Lusebagage: Teufelaffe: when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?

Its far less destructive.

When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!

Fact is, eating meat is cruel, self serving, and unnecessary.


That depends on your location. In low water or marginal environments, having a flock of dairy goats or sheep allows for adequate calorie and protein intake. Goats can eat the scrubby bushes people cannot, turning that cellulose and lignin into tasty tasty cheese.

Hunting/fishing is also critical in
Arctic places. Vegan isn't much of an option for the Inuit, unless they want to fly 90% of their food in from thousands of miles away.
 
2013-03-15 01:43:11 PM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


TFA is not about yeast, it's about isinglass. And yeast is a living organism, just like plants, that vegans eat.
 
2013-03-15 01:47:15 PM

give me doughnuts: Allowing the human population to increase does the same thing.


The point is, as the human population increases, eating meat will become "unsustainable" to the planet, because we will need even more space and resources for livestock farms.  We currently kill 75 million animals a day in America alone, Imagine if that was 150 million!  Think of the water shortages, or the waste runoff problems we'd face in this country if we doubled our livestock production.
 
2013-03-15 01:47:16 PM
I'm not a vegetarian, but the people who are like 'HUMANS ARE OMNIVORES- MEAT IS THE BEST FOR YOU!!!!' are just as bad as hard core vegans to me.

There are reasons why we shouldn't eat as much meat as we eat. To some people apparently it is all or nothing. You can eat all the meat possible or if you are vegan you can't be responsible for the death of any organism (which is impossible).

Maybe if we just cut back on some things we'd be healthier, we could use different farming practices, we could treat the animals we did have to kill a little better, and we could use less resources in general. Is that so horrible?
 
2013-03-15 01:47:25 PM
.Ok -- we need to stop something right now. Yeast is not 'killed' when you make beer. You add yeast, it grows, it makes alcohol, then it dies. Beer making (and correct me if im wrong) doesn't usually involve any step where fermentation is purposefully stopped. It ends itself for the most part. Its like planting a field of flowers. They smell nice and then they die in the fall. Stuff CAN in fact die all on its own. I think vegans are tools but i have to agree that nitpicking their choices is silly. Easier to just take potshots at their glaring biased propaganda.

 

cousin-merle: Yeah, because destroying hundreds of thousands of square miles of rainforest for cattle ranching is so much better for South America.


See -- keep in mind that you are also arguing against the development of a nation. And that the crap those save the rainforest organizations push is packed with green washing and buzz words. Yes we destroy wild land for agriculture. But the impact on the environment isn't even close to what pack a hundred and fifty thousand people into a few square miles and pave the whole lot. Next time you think about how much rainforest gets destroyed every year think about how much land is occupied in the usa by asphalt... Environmentalism is a pretty arbitrary reason to chose to be vegan. Just grow some balls and say you dont want to eat it because you don't want to eat it. Giving me a reason makes me want to judge its rational.

Now for the important part: Just leave the yeast in. Unibroue does and their beer is mighty good stuff. It puts hair on your chest. Hell -- Tois Pistoles could put hair on the balls of a five year old boy. Good stuff indeed. Tastes delicious, 9%abv and its $6.50 for 750ml bottle.
 
2013-03-15 01:50:10 PM

give me doughnuts: Allowing the human population to increase does the same thing.


Bonzo_1116: That depends on your location. In low water or marginal environments, having a flock of dairy goats or sheep allows for adequate calorie and protein intake. Goats can eat the scrubby bushes people cannot, turning that cellulose and lignin into tasty tasty cheese.

Hunting/fishing is also critical in
Arctic places. Vegan isn't much of an option for the Inuit, unless they want to fly 90% of their food in from thousands of miles away.


Don't use facts with Vegans, it only confuses and angers them.  The idea that humans, in and of themselves, are more destructive to the environment than all of the domestic livestock on Earth combined. or that there is such a thing as sustainable and non-destructive ranching means that they might be wrong about something, and that's just not allowed.
 
2013-03-15 01:57:46 PM

spidermilk: or if you are vegan you can't be responsible for the death of any organism (which is impossible).


That's not what veganism is.

Veganism simply is "the doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals,"  Donald Watson 1944

What you are talking about is called "Jainism"
 
2013-03-15 02:02:06 PM

Cormee: Scrotastic Method: Cormee: pag1107: They should be ashamed at putting their name on such an awful product.

Anyone I know whose had it has said it's quite nice. I think it's been pulled off the market now, anyway

Guinness Black? Naw, still around. They're marketing it hard still, giving cases and cases away for free at "urban hipster" stuff if SF, like art openings and stuff. I've probably had thirty of them in the past two weeks...they're not very good but they're very free, so, I'll have thirty more real soon.

/unless it IS pulled and they're just making me drink their garbage

Maybe it's just in Ireland it was pulled, I was planning on trying one then someone mentioned it was no longer on the market.

Or maybe I just imagined it all.


Definitely still on the market here in New Jersey.  Saw a pile of cases at my local liquor store 2 days ago.

\definitely not interested in trying it
 
2013-03-15 02:03:44 PM

Bonzo_1116: That depends on your location.


I agree Bonzo, it does depend on your area.
 
2013-03-15 02:04:32 PM

Lusebagage: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.

Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposal,  Energy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle disease,  Biodiversity loss, to name a few.


Two words:  Less. Humans.

\you're not thinking things through if you believe that all the problems you list above can be fixed simply by all humans moving to a vegan diet.  Overpopulation by humans is THE problem.
 
2013-03-15 02:06:23 PM

Lusebagage: We currently kill 75 million animals a day in America alone, Imagine if that was 150 million!  Think of the water shortages, or the waste runoff problems we'd face in this country if we doubled our livestock production.


Wouldn't we have water shortages if we doubled our grain production?

Nevermind that water is not destroyed by feeding animals or watering plants:  it is returned to the environment, most of it immediately, and goes back into the water cycle.  Our biggest water problems come from water use at a higher rate than the local aquifer can be replenished at the location where livestock and crops are grown.
 
2013-03-15 02:14:18 PM

Lusebagage: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.

Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposal,  Energy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle disease,  Biodiversity loss, to name a few.


You realize that this is less an issue with meat consumption than it is an with all agriculture?  While a strict carnivorous diet does in fact raise land requirements, studies have shown that an omnivorous diet featuring some meat is actually less destructive to the land than a high fat exclusively vegetarian diet. Let's look at some of your other concerns:

Fresh water consumption? You realize that water is a vital part of photosynthesis, correct? And we give it to them in huge amounts. So much so that we disrupt natural waterways to create extensive irrigation systems. We also terrace mountainsides to better retain water that is used, because growing plants uses so damn much of it. You may think that plants can live off Brawndo, but I promise you, it is not, in fact, what plants crave.
Animal waste can readily be used for other agricultural endeavors. Manure is compostable and can be used to fertilize agricultural fields. Urea from urine can be used for mycoculture.
Energy consumption for plants is nearly as high when you consider fuel for farm equipment, and energy requirements for humans to hand harvest (which several crops require).
Lifestyle disease? I assume you're talking about how vegans are so super healthy? What about the increase of cancer risk due to constant phytoestrogen exposure? What about the increased exposure to nurtitional deficiencies (and no, not just protein, but vitamin B, omega-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamin D)? What about the elevated level of homocysteine which is slowly dissolving your blood vessels? Just because your lifestyle choice puts you at a lower risk for heart disease and diabetes doesn't mean that it doesn't have negative impacts as well.
Biodiversity loss? Just like how every tomato you see in the store looks exactly the same these days, despite real tomatoes normally having a green crown, a trait which has been bred out as part of organized agriculture?
Deforestation is also used to provide arable land, not just pasturage.
Further, vegans can sleep soundly knowing that on average at least 15 mammals (conservatively) die per hectare of vegetables due to the use of farm equipment, lost of cover post-harvest, and loss of habitat due to land preparation and tilling. Not to mention the number of insects who are destroyed - something most vegans conveniently forget lives in the ground their plants come from. Everything kills something else to live, the goal is to minimize the killing and the impact from it.

Here's an interesting study for you, the cost of life for one million calories:
http://www.animalvisuals.org/p/1mc/docs/1millioncalories.pdf

It sounds like your problems are more with organized agriculture than they are with people eating meat. Argue the ethical aspect, you'll get better results when your claims are under a microscope. I have no problem with vegans. I do however have a problem with vegans who refuse to acknowledge that their so-called better alternative has several negative impacts on ecosystems. Unless you're growing the bulk of your own food in some substrate that animals don't live in, your hands have blood on them. So step off the pedestal.

Also, the idiots who think that we're "exploiting bees" without realizing that removing organized apiaries would lead to worldwide food shortages, famine, war, and catastrophic loss of life within 3-4 years.

/ex vegetarian of 8 years
//grew up on a farm, used to show cows, despises most militant vegans
 
2013-03-15 02:14:59 PM

mikefinch: .Ok -- we need to stop something right now. Yeast is not 'killed' when you make beer. You add yeast, it grows, it makes alcohol, then it dies. Beer making (and correct me if im wrong) doesn't usually involve any step where fermentation is purposefully stopped. It ends itself for the most part. Its like planting a field of flowers. They smell nice and then they die in the fall. Stuff CAN in fact die all on its own. I think vegans are tools but i have to agree that nitpicking their choices is silly. Easier to just take potshots at their glaring biased propaganda.


Not quite.  During fermentation, the yeast population keeps increasing until it has consumed all the fermentable sugars in the wort.  Some yeast may die of natural causes during this process, but most of them go dormant*.  The dormant yeast is then removed from the beer via fining, filtering or centrifuging, and discarded as waste (i.e. MURDERED).

*the great thing about this is that yeast can be re-used from batch to batch (google 'yeast washing') in my homebrewing, and also, if there is a beer that I really like which happens to be bottled with residual yeast instead of being filtered (like some Belgian ales), I can use that residual yeast at the bottom of the bottle of beer to grow a culture of the exact strain of yeast the brewery used, and use it in my own brewing.

TL,DR:  No, the yeast doesn't all die.
 
2013-03-15 02:16:10 PM
No Irish Farkers here to defend the Guinness in Ireland?  Guinness in the States tastes like garbage.  In Ireland it tastes completely different.  Might as well be a different beer altogether.
 
2013-03-15 02:18:31 PM

Xcott: Nevermind that water is not destroyed by feeding animals or watering plants: it is returned to the environment, most of it immediately, and goes back into the water cycle. Our biggest water problems come from water use at a higher rate than the local aquifer can be replenished at the location where livestock and crops are grown.


I don't usually get into these conversations because they are more fun to watch.  I understand the point you are trying to make, but with all the chemicals a lot of these industrial sized farms are dumping on the crops (think Monsanto) what is returning to the Earth isn't exactly drinkable, it's more like water+.  The real problem with factory farms (livestock) is where to put all the waste.  What comes out of the other end of a lot of these animals can't even be used for fertilizer due to the amount of pharmaceuticals that are found in them.
 
2013-03-15 02:18:54 PM

warthogbrewingco: there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur


I am a brewer, and this is 100% correct.

Also, don't forget chill haze.
 
2013-03-15 02:20:31 PM

Bruxellensis: warthogbrewingco: there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur

I am a brewer, and this is 100% correct.

Also, don't forget chill haze.


Silly hazes. Pectic haze. Protein haze. Chill haze. Purple haze... err... wait... no that last one is only when you're done homebrewing. lol.
 
2013-03-15 02:24:40 PM

scubamage: Bruxellensis: warthogbrewingco: there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur

I am a brewer, and this is 100% correct.

Also, don't forget chill haze.

Silly hazes. Pectic haze. Protein haze. Chill haze. Purple haze... err... wait... no that last one is only when you're done homebrewing. lol.


Chill haze is a protein haze.  And yes, you're right about that last part :)
 
2013-03-15 02:38:36 PM
Ummm...Vegans already knew this. That's why there are websites out there that let them know which beer has this ingredient.

 Nice try, subby.
 
2013-03-15 02:40:07 PM

Bpjosep: No Irish Farkers here to defend the Guinness in Ireland?  Guinness in the States tastes like garbage.  In Ireland it tastes completely different.  Might as well be a different beer altogether.


Sadly not too many young Irish drink Guinness.  Or any stout for that matter.  When I was there the younger people (i.e. 20's) drink imported German or American lagers and various "alcho-pop" drinks because they are lighter and you can get drunk quicker.

Oddly there were few places to get Harp lager in Ireland.  I would think that would have sold better and competed against the EU imports.
 
2013-03-15 02:56:31 PM
 CheekyMonkey:  Not quite. During fermentation, the yeast population keeps increasing until it has consumed all the fermentable sugars in the wort. Some yeast may die of natural causes during this process, but most of them go dormant*. The dormant yeast is then removed from the beer via fining, filtering or centrifuging, and discarded as waste (i.e. MURDERED).

And the grain that grows your bread is also essentially a wheat plant that is murdered to make flour. Seeds are seeds. Some are kept by the brewer (farmer) to grow the next crop while the beer (grain) gets separated from the yeast (chaff).
-- the yeast is more analogous to a mold or plant... anyways i think the waste yeast gets sold as animal feed or something. (i think i remember hearing that on Dirty Jobs). In any case thanks! i had forgotten about the waste yeast till now and im going to go make some sourdough starter because yeast.
 
2013-03-15 02:59:02 PM

scubamage: Bruxellensis: warthogbrewingco: there is a vegan alternative fining agent, known as irish moss.  it's sea weed.  however, these two are used for different things.  isinglass bonds with yeast (negative charge), while carrageenan (irish moss) bonds with most of the proteins (positive charge).  however, time will also cause the yeast and a lot of the proteins to settle out of the beer, but that means extra cask/lager time, which ties up space, equipment, and costs more $$.  which you use (or both) depends a lot on your recipe.  if you are using certain yeasts (ie. low flocculant types) isinglass is a good idea, if your grain bill has high protein grains (lots of wheat for example), then a good dose of irish moss at the end of your boil will help.  of course there are all sorts of other reasons for haze (over sampling is another), but those are not addressed by fining agents.

// this new science amazes me! tell me again how fish bladders can be used to prevent haze in beer. - king arthur

I am a brewer, and this is 100% correct.

Also, don't forget chill haze.

Silly hazes. Pectic haze. Protein haze. Chill haze. Purple haze... err... wait... no that last one is only when you're done homebrewing. lol.



Rutherford B. Haze...
 
2013-03-15 03:03:14 PM

mikefinch: . anyways i think the waste yeast gets sold as animal feed or something.



You're technically correct, but they prefer to be called "Aussies," rather than "animals."

i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-03-15 03:07:30 PM

CheekyMonkey: Farxist Marxist: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

I tend to think of alcohol as yeast pee, rather than a yeast death by-product, This will make it more palatable to Vegans, who are used to being pissed on by real meat-eating alpha males.

Pfft.  What do you think happens to the yeast after it's done fermenting the wort?  You think the brewery releases it back into the wild, or sends it off to live out the remainder of it's days at Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?  No.  It's MURDERED.  BEER IS MURDER.

\off to have a Guinness


Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary.
Ew.

Also, a great name for an all-gal cover band. Gotta cover some bands without ALL girls.
Diana Ross, The Supremes,
Bangles, Debby Harry, Veruca Salt, The Go-gos, Spice Girls, TLC, Salt and Pepa, Destiny's Child, Siouxie and the Banshees, Patti Smith, L7, Chaka Khan, The Runaways (and their later bands), The Slits, The Pretenders, Janis Joplin, and The Muffs.

All done in the punk/metal genre.
Or a swing band.
 
2013-03-15 03:11:04 PM
Guinness is gross...

Here, have one of these:
www.northcoastbrewing.com
 
2013-03-15 03:11:09 PM

TheMysticS: CheekyMonkey: Farxist Marxist: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

I tend to think of alcohol as yeast pee, rather than a yeast death by-product, This will make it more palatable to Vegans, who are used to being pissed on by real meat-eating alpha males.

Pfft.  What do you think happens to the yeast after it's done fermenting the wort?  You think the brewery releases it back into the wild, or sends it off to live out the remainder of it's days at Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?  No.  It's MURDERED.  BEER IS MURDER.

\off to have a Guinness

Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary.
Ew.

Also, a great name for an all-gal cover band. Gotta cover some bands without ALL girls.
Diana Ross, The Supremes,
Bangles, Debby Harry, Veruca Salt, The Go-gos, Spice Girls, TLC, Salt and Pepa, Destiny's Child, Siouxie and the Banshees, Patti Smith, L7, Chaka Khan, The Runaways (and their later bands), The Slits, The Pretenders, Janis Joplin, and The Muffs.

All done in the punk/metal genre.
Or a swing band.


I forgot about the teaches of Peaches!

/for shame
 
2013-03-15 03:12:29 PM

punkhippie: Guinness sucks ass. It's probably the worst stout in existence.


Get off my planet you heathen!
 
2013-03-15 03:13:35 PM

CheekyMonkey: Two words:  Less. Humans.


Fewer. Fewer humans.

/fewer grammar Nazis too
 
2013-03-15 03:16:45 PM
Also, next time you go to a bar and get a flat beer (just a pondscum dappling of foam in top and almost no carbonation in the body) you can thank guinness for that.  Their jackhole reps tell bar managers (who should honestly know better) that they can just use a 30/70 CO2/Nitro blend for all their beers.  Because thats the blend for Guinness...It must be ok for a pale ale too right?
 
2013-03-15 03:20:42 PM

hubris73: Also, next time you go to a bar and get a flat beer (just a pondscum dappling of foam in top and almost no carbonation in the body) you can thank guinness for that.  Their jackhole reps tell bar managers (who should honestly know better) that they can just use a 30/70 CO2/Nitro blend for all their beers.  Because thats the blend for Guinness...It must be ok for a pale ale too right?


I actually really like certain pale ales and IPA's via a nitro tap. The base beer needs to have a really luscious mouthfeel first though, or else it'll be really wonky. Obviously it's not a one size fits all thing though.
 
2013-03-15 03:24:33 PM
Oh, isinglass. Works like a charm for clarifying (I make wine).

Wondered when I saw the headline if this might explain the sort of 'meaty' taste in the batter when I used Guinness instead of porter when I made porter cake.

Couldn't find any porter at the time. Cake turned out awesome...'meaty' taste didn't survive the tranformation from 'batter' to 'cake'.
 
2013-03-15 03:24:34 PM
I guess I could bite on the vegetarian troll, but I'd rather do the trolling myself, so I'll point out that Guinness tastes like watery mud. Maybe they're not using enough fish bladder?

There's nothing wrong with a decent stout. Guinness drinkers should try one. Or, if you're drinking it because you want to be the person calling attention to the mass-market beer you're drinking, ask your bartender for an obscure little microbrew known as a PBR.
 
2013-03-15 03:26:39 PM
My company brought in a bunch of Guinness for a St. Patrick's day party, this afternoon.  Having a lot of people here from India, who are vegetarians, I wonder if I should mention this fish bladder thing?

/nah
 
2013-03-15 03:26:54 PM

scubamage: I actually really like certain pale ales and IPA's via a nitro tap. The base beer needs to have a really luscious mouthfeel first though, or else it'll be really wonky. Obviously it's not a one size fits all thing though.


I've only ever seen one that was designed for it, and it was pretty good.  But if they are not designed for it (they ask for 2.5 or more volumes of CO2) they will taste like crap by the time they get down to .5 - which is where they'll be by the time that keg is half empty
 
2013-03-15 03:28:08 PM
fish bladders

www.cardinalfang.net

Oh, we use only the finest juicy chunks of fresh Cornish RamFish's bladder, emptied, steamed, flavoured with sesame seeds, whipped into a fondue, and garnished with lark's vomit.
 
2013-03-15 03:32:38 PM

mikefinch: See -- keep in mind that you are also arguing against the development of a nation. And that the crap those save the rainforest organizations push is packed with green washing and buzz words. Yes we destroy wild land for agriculture. But the impact on the environment isn't even close to what pack a hundred and fifty thousand people into a few square miles and pave the whole lot. Next time you think about how much rainforest gets destroyed every year think about how much land is occupied in the usa by asphalt... Environmentalism is a pretty arbitrary reason to chose to be vegan. Just grow some balls and say you dont want to eat it because you don't want to eat it. Giving me a reason makes me want to judge its rational.


You sound like another South Park intellectual.  There are plenty of environmental reasons to oppose the mass consumption of meat, from the amount of fresh water used to the amount of waste produced.  There are other reasons, from personal health to animal welfare, and each person has a different balance of these values in making decisions in their lives.  When you say "all vegans are tools", you expose a general, pervasive ignorance and assume that you have all the knowledge necessary to make decisions for other people.  You obviously know nothing about my reasons outside of a snippet of a conversation that you were not a part of.  My biggest issue is with the large-scale, low-ethics production.  How about my dad's wife?  She just recently discovered a polyp in her colon.  Man, she sure is a tool for wanting to follow my lead and eat fewer animals, am I right?  Point and laugh at her biased propaganda!  Honestly, eat what you want, but don't be such an asshole about it.
 
2013-03-15 03:36:54 PM

Teufelaffe: I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times

.

I have a hard time believing this has ever happened, but it's past noon and time to get back to thinking about beer.  I hope to murder some brettanomyces and lactobacillus soon.
 
2013-03-15 03:39:38 PM

hubris73: Also, next time you go to a bar and get a flat beer (just a pondscum dappling of foam in top and almost no carbonation in the body) you can thank guinness for that.  Their jackhole reps tell bar managers (who should honestly know better) that they can just use a 30/70 CO2/Nitro blend for all their beers.  Because thats the blend for Guinness...It must be ok for a pale ale too right?


Are they also using sparkle taps on that pale ale?
60/40 is decent for all beers, including Guiness. We used to run a beer we called the nitro-porter. Carbed and pushed with that blend.

Thing is, you really don't any No2. The biggest reason you do that is to keep from over-carbing the beer in the keg, or if you have a very long trunk between the kegs and the taps. The trunk for the breweries pub is about 75 feet long and goes up. So we used the blend to send it that far without putting a lot of co2 on top of the tanks that could be absorbed by the beer..
But nitrogen has its own issues with generating it you have the set up to do so. So we ripped all that out and put pneumatic sanitary pumps on the lines instead. Solved all those issues.

Also stop pimping a imperial stout over a session stout, they are two different types of stouts. Picking Murphy's over Guinness is more appropriate comparison.

/old speckled hen
 
2013-03-15 03:41:15 PM

cousin-merle: mikefinch: See -- keep in mind that you are also arguing against the development of a nation. And that the crap those save the rainforest organizations push is packed with green washing and buzz words. Yes we destroy wild land for agriculture. But the impact on the environment isn't even close to what pack a hundred and fifty thousand people into a few square miles and pave the whole lot. Next time you think about how much rainforest gets destroyed every year think about how much land is occupied in the usa by asphalt... Environmentalism is a pretty arbitrary reason to chose to be vegan. Just grow some balls and say you dont want to eat it because you don't want to eat it. Giving me a reason makes me want to judge its rational.

You sound like another South Park intellectual.  There are plenty of environmental reasons to oppose the mass consumption of meat, from the amount of fresh water used to the amount of waste produced.  There are other reasons, from personal health to animal welfare, and each person has a different balance of these values in making decisions in their lives.  When you say "all vegans are tools", you expose a general, pervasive ignorance and assume that you have all the knowledge necessary to make decisions for other people.  You obviously know nothing about my reasons outside of a snippet of a conversation that you were not a part of.  My biggest issue is with the large-scale, low-ethics production.  How about my dad's wife?  She just recently discovered a polyp in her colon.  Man, she sure is a tool for wanting to follow my lead and eat fewer animals, am I right?  Point and laugh at her biased propaganda!  Honestly, eat what you want, but don't be such an asshole about it.



And you know that polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Keep in mind, the whole "OMG, MEAT STAYS IN YOUR COLON FOR DAYS!!!1!!" is bullshiat.
 
2013-03-15 03:42:06 PM
Predictably, in this thread...

loveforlife.com.au

/yea, a veritable army of them
 
2013-03-15 03:46:08 PM
cl.jroo.me
 
2013-03-15 03:48:35 PM

cousin-merle: Teufelaffe: I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times.

I have a hard time believing this has ever happened, but it's past noon and time to get back to thinking about beer.  I hope to murder some brettanomyces and lactobacillus soon.


I should expound; these encounters were at parties, so there had been some alcohol consumed by these folks (I don't drink...hate the taste of alcohol).  That's why I politely extricate myself.  If these were sober people talking to me like that, I'd tell them to go fark themselves.

I can only assume that it's something to do with this area of the country.  I've been all over the US, and I have never encountered more rude people than in New England.  For instance, it's the only place I've ever been where the server in more than one restaurant has greeted me with an impatient "Whaddya want?"
 
2013-03-15 03:49:19 PM

Teufelaffe: It usually goes like this:

Me: *says something that has nothing whatsoever to do with food, diets, the environment, sustainability, or animal welfare*
Vegan: "That's nice.  So, have you tried the new Vegan bacon burrito at the co-op deli?"
Me: "No, I don't get to the co-op much."
Vegan: "Oh, are you a...Meat Eater?" (Those last two words are usually dripping with disdain.)
Me: "Yes, I eat meat."
Vegan: *rant about how I'm helping destroy the world, perpetuate suffering, and am just an all around terrible human being and I should become a Vegan so I can stop being so awful*

I get this shiat on a regular basis, almost always out of the farking blue.  I am always polite to them, I never provoke their tirades, and I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times.  I never comment on their chosen lifestyle or diet and usually just excuse myself as soon as I can when they start haranguing me.


Ah, the rare "Internet Meek Guy." Well played!

I ought to 'shoop up an "ITG Magazine" equivalent, but outside of persecution-by-rabid-vegan threads, it's hardly ever necessary.

/Seriously, though, no one believes this or anything remotely like it has actually happened to you.
 
2013-03-15 03:52:02 PM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: And you know that polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Keep in mind, the whole "OMG, MEAT STAYS IN YOUR COLON FOR DAYS!!!1!!" is bullshiat.


Thanks, I'll be sure to pass on your expert medical opinion to her doctor and the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons.
 
2013-03-15 03:54:57 PM
Besides the obvious "they're self-righteous douche bags," why all the hate for vegans? I get that they can be annoying and smug - but there has to be more to the hate/dislike than that.

/legitimately curious
//stop laughing, I really don't understand why
 
2013-03-15 03:55:07 PM

TechnicolorYawn: My company brought in a bunch of Guinness for a St. Patrick's day party, this afternoon.  Having a lot of people here from India, who are vegetarians, I wonder if I should mention this fish bladder thing?

/nah


Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.
 
2013-03-15 03:57:56 PM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


Some hardcore vegans DON'T.

My best guess is that a Vegan diet is difficult enough, having to worry about yeast too would drive you mad.
 
2013-03-15 03:58:46 PM

cousin-merle: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: And you know that polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Keep in mind, the whole "OMG, MEAT STAYS IN YOUR COLON FOR DAYS!!!1!!" is bullshiat.

Thanks, I'll be sure to pass on your expert medical opinion to her doctor and the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons.


Uh huh...so again, you know that the polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Remember, "increased risk" ≠ definite cause, but I'm sure that doesn't matter since you can use this as an excuse to be smug about your lifestyle choices.  Tell me, how often do you say "I told you so" to your dad's wife?
 
2013-03-15 04:02:31 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.


The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products
 
2013-03-15 04:04:58 PM

semiotix: Teufelaffe: It usually goes like this:

Me: *says something that has nothing whatsoever to do with food, diets, the environment, sustainability, or animal welfare*
Vegan: "That's nice.  So, have you tried the new Vegan bacon burrito at the co-op deli?"
Me: "No, I don't get to the co-op much."
Vegan: "Oh, are you a...Meat Eater?" (Those last two words are usually dripping with disdain.)
Me: "Yes, I eat meat."
Vegan: *rant about how I'm helping destroy the world, perpetuate suffering, and am just an all around terrible human being and I should become a Vegan so I can stop being so awful*

I get this shiat on a regular basis, almost always out of the farking blue.  I am always polite to them, I never provoke their tirades, and I remain polite with them even after they've called me a "filthy murderer" three or four times.  I never comment on their chosen lifestyle or diet and usually just excuse myself as soon as I can when they start haranguing me.

Ah, the rare "Internet Meek Guy." Well played!

I ought to 'shoop up an "ITG Magazine" equivalent, but outside of persecution-by-rabid-vegan threads, it's hardly ever necessary.

/Seriously, though, no one believes this or anything remotely like it has actually happened to you.


Oh noes, someone on the Internet doesn't believe me!  Whatever shall I do!?
 
2013-03-15 04:09:16 PM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Uh huh...so again, you know that the polyp was the result of eating meat because...?  Remember, "increased risk" ≠ definite cause, but I'm sure that doesn't matter since you can use this as an excuse to be smug about your lifestyle choices.  Tell me, how often do you say "I told you so" to your dad's wife?


I never said it was the direct cause, but she would rather reduce her risks, and she made her decision with doctor, not with me.  You are a sad person.
 
2013-03-15 04:11:24 PM

shortymac: Some hardcore vegans DON'T.

My best guess is that a Vegan diet is difficult enough, having to worry about yeast too would drive you mad.


I would go crazy without yeast.  Besides the obvious beer, nutritional yeast tastes way better than it sounds.
 
2013-03-15 04:11:26 PM

cousin-merle: Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.

The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products


Well it's a good thing the Reinheitsgebot isn't applicable anymore.
 
2013-03-15 04:11:30 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Are they also using sparkle taps on that pale ale?
60/40 is decent for all beers, including Guiness. We used to run a beer we called the nitro-porter. Carbed and pushed with that blend.

Thing is, you really don't any No2. The biggest reason you do that is to keep from over-carbing the beer in the keg, or if you have a very long trunk between the kegs and the taps. The trunk for the breweries pub is about 75 feet long and goes up. So we used the blend to send it that far without putting a lot of co2 on top of the tanks that could be absorbed by the beer..
But nitrogen has its own issues with generating it you have the set up to do so. So we ripped all that out and put pneumatic sanitary pumps on the lines instead. Solved all those issues.

Also stop pimping a imperial stout over a session stout, they are two different types of stouts. Picking Murphy's over Guinness is more appropriate comparison.

/old speckled hen


75 feet going up (how far)? There is a whole lot of resistance in that system - do you know what the interal diameters of your trunk lines were?  Im surprised you could get away with even a 60% blend (espessially on traditionally nitro beers) - your psi must have been in the 30s or 40s. pumps definatly sound like the best option there - but not really in the budget of most sports bars.  After you put the pumps in did you just use a pure CO2 pressure on it(for the necessary carbonation retention)? I've never seen one of those systems in action, so im curious. Also not sure what a sparkle tap is...

As to the NC OR recomendation...well, I just can't think of many dry stouts that tasted all that good to me - they are a pretty boring beer.  I liked this one, but I doubt you could find it outside of central FL
 
2013-03-15 04:17:01 PM

hubris73: As to the NC OR recomendation...well, I just can't think of many dry stouts that tasted all that good to me - they are a pretty boring beer. I liked this one, but I doubt you could find it outside of central FL


They are out there.  I've made plenty.  They don't have to be boring just because the most famous one is.
 
2013-03-15 04:17:27 PM

cousin-merle: Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.

The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products


The reinheitsgbot was put in place more so because the old Bavarian ale wives were adding Hens bane to their beer and killing customers.
Also, don't forget that the original interpretation of that law didn't allow for yeast either. And a lot of German brewers I've met over the years really hate that law because it pigeon holes them.

And I'll take a Bloody Mary oyster shooter over a oyster stout.
 
2013-03-15 04:17:41 PM

Bruxellensis: Well it's a good thing the Reinheitsgebot isn't applicable anymore.


It's a good thing DE filters exist.  Fossilized animals are technically vegan, apparently.
 
2013-03-15 04:21:27 PM

cousin-merle: shortymac: Some hardcore vegans DON'T.

My best guess is that a Vegan diet is difficult enough, having to worry about yeast too would drive you mad.

I would go crazy without yeast.  Besides the obvious beer, nutritional yeast tastes way better than it sounds.


ooh it is! I love making mac and cheese with it!
 
2013-03-15 04:22:35 PM

Cerebral Knievel: cousin-merle: Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.

The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products

The reinheitsgbot was put in place more so because the old Bavarian ale wives were adding Hens bane to their beer and killing customers.
Also, don't forget that the original interpretation of that law didn't allow for yeast either. And a lot of German brewers I've met over the years really hate that law because it pigeon holes them.



fark the Reinheitsgebot.  This, coming from a German beer lover and brewer.
 
2013-03-15 04:26:24 PM

Lusebagage: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Oh look, someone who's anti-meat and doesn't know what the fark they're talking about. Imagine that.

Case in point!

"When was the last time you met a meat eater who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is unsustainable and killing the planet!"

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You can bury your head in the ground, but it does not change the facts. Growing livestock causes several major issues:

Deforestation, Fresh water consumption, Waste disposal,  Energy consumption, Global warming, Lifestyle disease,  Biodiversity loss, to name a few.


Good.
 
2013-03-15 04:36:21 PM
Guinness snobs and vegans are two cohorts I'd like to rub from the face of the earth. That is all.
 
2013-03-15 04:41:55 PM

hubris73: Cerebral Knievel: Are they also using sparkle taps on that pale ale?
60/40 is decent for all beers, including Guiness. We used to run a beer we called the nitro-porter. Carbed and pushed with that blend.

Thing is, you really don't any No2. The biggest reason you do that is to keep from over-carbing the beer in the keg, or if you have a very long trunk between the kegs and the taps. The trunk for the breweries pub is about 75 feet long and goes up. So we used the blend to send it that far without putting a lot of co2 on top of the tanks that could be absorbed by the beer..
But nitrogen has its own issues with generating it you have the set up to do so. So we ripped all that out and put pneumatic sanitary pumps on the lines instead. Solved all those issues.

Also stop pimping a imperial stout over a session stout, they are two different types of stouts. Picking Murphy's over Guinness is more appropriate comparison.

/old speckled hen

75 feet going up (how far)? There is a whole lot of resistance in that system - do you know what the interal diameters of your trunk lines were?  Im surprised you could get away with even a 60% blend (espessially on traditionally nitro beers) - your psi must have been in the 30s or 40s. pumps definatly sound like the best option there - but not really in the budget of most sports bars.  After you put the pumps in did you just use a pure CO2 pressure on it(for the necessary carbonation retention)? I've never seen one of those systems in action, so im curious. Also not sure what a sparkle tap is...

As to the NC OR recomendation...well, I just can't think of many dry stouts that tasted all that good to me - they are a pretty boring beer.  I liked this one, but I doubt you could find it outside of central FL


Co2 is metered out to retain head pressure in the tank, and, of course to prevent the coke can in a vacuum effect. We maintain about 15-20psi head pressure on the tank it self.. most of our beers are served out 200 gallon Grundy tanks. The brewery and pub is a two story split level building with the brewery and serving cellar down stairs with the pub and its kitchen upstairs. So the trunk has to go up a full story to the tap handles up stairs. We had all types of issues with the nitro system, so that's why we yanked it out and went with the pumps, and they work very well for this application.

Essentially, the pump is always trying to pump, when you open a faucet, the back pressure on the pump is released and the beer starts pumping. Adjusting flow rate is a matter of adjusting gas pressure to the pump and head pressure on the tank.

A sparkle tap is a industry name for a Guinness type nitro tap. Its designed for a slow pour and has a restriction plate between the facet and the pour nib. The restriction plate breaks up the pour and agitates the beer to cause it to foam up to make that big head. Guinness is liable to pour like a normal beer without that tap and its nitro blended carbonation. The co2 nucleates off the No2. The vertical pour with the tap causes all that to happen.

And if you don't like dry stouts, that's all good, that's just your taste, i prefer a sweet porter if I'm drinking something like that myself. Old speckled hen is my favorite of that ilk that can usually be found as an import.

Last time I was in Florida, none of the local beers stood out to me.. I think it was the water.. it was just.. off. Either that sand/limestone substrate, or the okifinokie swamp water... but it all had that.. Florida taste, i guess you would call it. The beer wasn't bad mind you, it just had a lingering taste that kinda put me off.

Keep in mind, the last time i was in Florida, my pooling samples were between west palm beach and Key West
 
2013-03-15 05:02:33 PM
Y

TheMysticS: TheMysticS: CheekyMonkey: Farxist Marxist: CheekyMonkey: Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?

No, but HuffPo needs clicks.  Also, 99.4% of all commercial beers use either isinglass or gelatin as a fining ingredient.  Neither of which is vegan-friendly.

Vegans should just stay away from all alcoholic beverages, though, since they're all based on fermentation, which exploits yeast.

I tend to think of alcohol as yeast pee, rather than a yeast death by-product, This will make it more palatable to Vegans, who are used to being pissed on by real meat-eating alpha males.

Pfft.  What do you think happens to the yeast after it's done fermenting the wort?  You think the brewery releases it back into the wild, or sends it off to live out the remainder of it's days at Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary?  No.  It's MURDERED.  BEER IS MURDER.

\off to have a Guinness

Darryl Hannah's Yeast Sanctuary.
Ew.

Also, a great name for an all-gal cover band. Gotta cover some bands without ALL girls.
Diana Ross, The Supremes,
Bangles, Debby Harry, Veruca Salt, The Go-gos, Spice Girls, TLC, Salt and Pepa, Destiny's Child, Siouxie and the Banshees, Patti Smith, L7, Chaka Khan, The Runaways (and their later bands), The Slits, The Pretenders, Janis Joplin, and The Muffs.

All done in the punk/metal genre.
Or a swing band.

I forgot about the teaches of Peaches!

/for shame


         You also forgot The All Girl Boys Choir

 
2013-03-15 05:04:42 PM

Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel: cousin-merle: Cerebral Knievel: Its filtered out before it gets near the bottle anyways, dumped out with the yeast, which.. y'know, is kinda the point of using a fining agent.

We do still on occasion do use isinglass in the brewery. But only with the "real beer" cask program. And even then, not really. It can disrupt the krausening if you add too much, or not help at all if you don't add enough.

Thats the the big issue i have with the argument though. Most breweries that use the stuff do it as a matter of pre-filtration. To aide the polishing filter. If they are using a sanitary filter afterwards to extend shelf stability, then its even cleaner, and there is no 'glass left in the stuff at all.

If the vegans, or anyone else is worried about drinking fish guts, i would dare say that they don't have anything to worry about. Now, if its the moral implications they are worried about, can't help ya. But we were certified Kosher during that time.

The Reinheitsgebot doesn't allow finings.  I think it is reasonable to not want it as a vegan.

/I still value my beer karma more and will drink a Guinness if necessary
//only crazy people don't eat honey
///oyster stouts are totally gross regardless of animal products

The reinheitsgbot was put in place more so because the old Bavarian ale wives were adding Hens bane to their beer and killing customers.
Also, don't forget that the original interpretation of that law didn't allow for yeast either. And a lot of German brewers I've met over the years really hate that law because it pigeon holes them.


fark the Reinheitsgebot.  This, coming from a German beer lover and brewer.


Hell, i'm a big German beer lover, probably because im half kraut :D
I think the big thing that makes a lot of these beers extra yummy is that a lot of the little guys are still using unmodified malts and employing a decoction mash.

shiat.. i wish we would do that here, our waters mineral profile is really similar to Munich, and the brew house can do decoction. We already do a lot of German style beers as it is because of the water.
 
2013-03-15 05:18:26 PM
Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.
 
2013-03-15 05:20:11 PM

Cerebral Knievel: fark the Reinheitsgebot.  This, coming from a German beer lover and brewer.

Hell, i'm a big German beer lover, probably because im half kraut :D
I think the big thing that makes a lot of these beers extra yummy is that a lot of the little guys are still using unmodified malts and employing a decoction mash.

shiat.. i wish we would do that here, our waters mineral profile is really similar to Munich, and the brew house can do decoction. We already do a lot of German style beers as it is because of the water.


That's funny.  I'm half kraut myself.  We traced my ancestry back to German and Austrian brewers.  Weird, huh?  Could that be in the blood?

My water is pretty similar to Munich as well.  My Sulfate is a tad lower, but nothing a little Gypsum can't fix if I'm going for a German style lager.  In my opinion, doing a decoction is stupid if you're using well modified malts.  You're killing your head retention if you do a protein rest with modified malts.  Unless, of course, you can do double or triple decoction somehow without stepping up the mash each time, and remain in saccharification temperature.  Or perhaps you could throw in a little wheat malt in the mash once you've hit sacch temp.  You need a way to bring back the long chain proteins if you want decent head retention in the final beer, and coasting through the protein enzyme zone will hurt that (part of the decoction mashing process).

I've done many decoction mashes, but gotta say that the best results come from using under-modified Moravian Pils malt.  Just can't beat it.  If I'm using modified malts I'll add a couple percent melanoidin malt or caramunich malt or aromatic malt, or a combination thereof, to simulate the effect.  It's close, but good palates can tell the difference.
 
2013-03-15 05:27:02 PM
I've got a Traditional Bock on tap right now in which I used all modified malts.  I threw in 3.75% Melanoidin malt, and mashed at 154.  It has wonderful body, and rich malty flavor, but is not too sweet.  Too bad I live so far from the brewery where you work CK; I would drop off samples all the time.
 
2013-03-15 05:44:33 PM

WGJ: I thought they weren't drinking it anyways because they use rats for flavoring.


They found the rats after they cleaned the vats.

Good Rats
 
2013-03-15 05:50:59 PM

Teufelaffe: cousin-merle: Teufelaffe: That's exactly what I'm suggesting.  It's like you read my mind!  Or, maybe I was pointing out the unintended consequences of Veganism.  All Vegans have really managed accomplish is getting a feeling superiority and the destruction of farmland (and a detrimental effect on local dietary habits) in South America in order to meet the increased demand for quinoa as an export.  But I'm sure that smugness they feel will help recover those over-farmed areas any day now.

Yeah, because destroying hundreds of thousands of square miles of rainforest for cattle ranching is so much better for South America.  Not everything is equally bad.  You think you are making an intelligent point, but you're not.  Sure, there can be unintended consequences, but the status quo is orders of magnitude worse.

Not saying they're equally bad, but when was the last time you met a Vegan who was actually willing to acknowledge that their chosen diet is still destructive to the environment?  I haven't yet, but maybe the Vegans you've met haven't been self-righteous douche-rockets who make a point to express just how superior they are to "meat eaters".  And this is shiat that comes up in conversations that are entirely unrelated to diet mind you. In my experience, most Vegans are just another version of the anti-fur people who wear leather or the Earth First! folks who drive gasoline-fueled cars.  They're more than happy to tell other people how horrible their choices are, but they never seem to be willing to cop to consequences of their own.


I'm a vegan, and I'm more than willing to cop to the fact that it's not a super magical way of life that somehow ends the destruction of the planet. I'm a vegan because I'm allergic to milk, meat makes me fat and I don't like the taste and I feel bad when I think about what an animal has to go through to become my food. I don't badger my friends and family about not being vegan (even my husband isn't a vegan) and in fact have to endure more of their shiat about how gross all my food is and their constant taunts with bacon than they have to endure from me. Also, when I find out something like Quinoa destroying the way of life for South Americans (which I learned about months ago), I stop eating it and switch to something more sustainable because why be an a*shole? Otherwise, it's contrary to the whole concept.

The same could be said for 90% of my vegan/vegetarian friends. So, stop being a d*ckhole.
 
2013-03-15 06:45:14 PM
cousin-merle: You sound like another South Park intellectual. There are plenty of environmental reasons to oppose the mass consumption of meat, from the amount of fresh water used to the amount of waste produced. There are other reasons, from personal health to animal welfare, and each person has a different balance of these values in making decisions in their lives.

Every time you give some reason other than "MY BALLS ARE HUGE AND I ROCK THATS WHY" i'm going to feel an urge to poke holes in your crappy line of reasoning.
There are plenty of reasons to be a vegan. None of them good. The wonderful thing about being human is you dont need a good reason to do anything. Opposing the mass consumption of meat hardly makes you a vegan. At most it would make you a non-safeway-tarian.

When you say "all vegans are tools", you expose a general, pervasive ignorance and assume
that you have all the knowledge necessary to make decisions for other people.


I'm not making any decision for you. I have known gaggillions of vegetarians, vegans, what have you -- i spent my fist year of college living on a campus that didn't serve an ounce of meat -- i have heard every reason under the sun and all of them amount to it being a personal choice and they tack on some flawed cause to try rationalize it. Just what i've seen.

You obviously know nothing about my reasons outside of a snippet of a conversation that you were not a part of.

Excuse me? Part of the conversation? As far as im concerned clicking the link to this thread made me part of it. If you want to have a private conversation with someone then maybe fark isn't the place for you.

My biggest issue is with the large-scale, low-ethics production.

Oh look you just told me your big issue. If thats really your angle wouldnt you be doing more by supporting small eco friendly farms with good ethics rather than pulling your money out all together? Kind of cutting off the nose to spite the face aren't you?

How about my dad's wife? She just recently discovered a polyp in her colon. Man, she sure is a tool for wanting to follow my lead and eat fewer animals, am I right? Point and laugh at her biased propaganda! Honestly, eat what you want, but don't be such an asshole about it.

soooo... i have colitis so i'm well aware of the many terrible terrible things that can go wrong inside a colon. We could talk about all the stuff soy does to your hormones or complex carbs do to your pancreas or fruit juice and soda do to your teeth but really why don't we just agree that living caries a risk of death.
--- Also -- im not so sure im the asshole here. I'm pretty sure you were the one who started being condescending to people who ate meat.

Dick.
 
2013-03-15 07:51:35 PM
I didn't know isinglass was still around at all. I see it used in very old cookbooks, but I'd figured gelatin entirely replaced it. Aside from source material, is there a difference between the two?
 
2013-03-15 07:57:34 PM

psychosis_inducing: I didn't know isinglass was still around at all. I see it used in very old cookbooks, but I'd figured gelatin entirely replaced it. Aside from source material, is there a difference between the two?


You get F in reading thread.
 
2013-03-15 08:59:54 PM

FunkOut: Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.


As a former Vegan  I can confirm this, lol! Hubby is still a Vegan and he loves both :P
 
2013-03-15 09:11:07 PM

mafiageek1980: FunkOut: Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.

As a former Vegan  I can confirm this, lol! Hubby is still a Vegan and he loves both :P


isnt the cream filling in the oreos vanilla flavord crisco?

well... I guess that is alright then..

lard and butter is technically better for you fat wise, not so much cholesterol wise..so, its a trade up..

for the record, I love carnivore food, omnivore food, vegi, and vegan food..

the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products. using TVP or tofu and what have you to make things that look and taste like meat, but are not actually meat. my thought is that if you miss the shiat so much, just farking eat the real thing and be done with it. seems to me you are just torturing yourself at the end of the day.
 
2013-03-15 09:46:13 PM
Yeast aren't animals. They're fungi, so its like eating mushrooms.
 
2013-03-15 09:47:04 PM
Mmmm. Fish bladder.
 
2013-03-15 09:57:25 PM
Lusebagage

Harbinger here, like most self centered meat eaters, refuses to acknowledge that eating meat is "unsustainable" to the planet, and that raising meat is extremely destructive to the environment.

You veg types would get more converts if you laid off the "YER A BAD PERSON AND YER KILLING THE PLANET" tirades (which make us want to eat all the meat in the world just to spite you) and instead focused on helping to create veg alternatives to meat that are more affordable and more palatable than the ones we have now.

Stop braying about what evil people we are and instead make being veg more appealing than it currently is, and more people will pick vegetarian options instead of meat options.
 
2013-03-15 10:02:51 PM

Cerebral Knievel: the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products.


Stripple. The worst thing ever. It looks like bacon coloured tent patch and it tastes like bacon coloured tent patch.

farm1.staticflickr.com

The funniest part was that the people eating it weren't super strick vegitarians. They would eat steaks once in a bit. They followed leviticus food food laws because they were Seventh Day Adventist...

Not only was it fake meat -- it was fake meat from an animal none of them had ever even tasted. They would go out of their way to eat fake meat from animals their bible called unclean.

Mind you these were the same people that belived eating shell fish was like eating poop because 'thats what they eat out of the water' and you are what you eat apparently. As if potatoes were made of dirt and cows made of grass.

Stripple -- the only thing worse in the morning is watching the rest of the people at the table use orange juice on their honey nut cheerios instead of milk. Barf. They would exclaim 'its not so bad' and say 'adam and eve wouldnt have had milk, they would have had fruit juice and water.' (true story) And i would have to ask how they knew that and why they couldnt milk cows. No reason. They just liked to think that thought without actually thinking about that thought. I find that common among fundies. They never seem to play devils advocate with a single word they're told.
 
2013-03-15 10:12:49 PM

MeanJean: You veg types would get more converts if you laid off the "YER A BAD PERSON AND YER KILLING THE PLANET" tirades (which make us want to eat all the meat in the world just to spite you) and instead focused on helping to create veg alternatives to meat that are more affordable and more palatable than the ones we have now.


Eating a veggie diet is easy and delish. Just make dishes you would normally make and omit the meat. Dont replace it with bulgar wheat or some hippy dippy slice of Wham (fake ham). Just omit it. Add more beans and nuts to your diet. Its easy. Just dont eat meat. Thats the whole point. Replacements are always worse than ommiting.

And if i ever hear one of you bastards using 'carob' chips in cookies i will come to your house and beat you to death with a bag of rasins. Rasins suck in cookies but they are still better than 'carob covered in a HIV laden hobo blood'.
 
2013-03-15 10:49:32 PM

Cerebral Knievel: mafiageek1980: FunkOut: Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.

As a former Vegan  I can confirm this, lol! Hubby is still a Vegan and he loves both :P

isnt the cream filling in the oreos vanilla flavord crisco?

well... I guess that is alright then..

lard and butter is technically better for you fat wise, not so much cholesterol wise..so, its a trade up..

for the record, I love carnivore food, omnivore food, vegi, and vegan food..

the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products. using TVP or tofu and what have you to make things that look and taste like meat, but are not actually meat. my thought is that if you miss the shiat so much, just farking eat the real thing and be done with it. seems to me you are just torturing yourself at the end of the day.


eh, it's a taste thing. Don't get me wrong, Vegans don't wanna eat animal parts but it's a lie to say some of them don't miss it. So, they gotta get creative. Frankly, Tofu (if done right) can be ok, but it's not a high staple in our house. If we want something like sloppy joes or taco meat, that's when we use TVP. I try to tell people that there IS vegan junk food and being a vegan for health reasons is an oxymoron (ok, the one exception being cholesterol levels..veganism DOES help with that). If you don't get off your ass and exerise then the only good you are doing yourself as a vegan is not consuming animal souls (I'm speaking from experience here).

/Pescetarian, former Vegan as of 2 wks ago
//luv me some fish!
 
2013-03-15 10:52:03 PM

Cerebral Knievel: mafiageek1980: FunkOut: Um, vegans been talking about this for many years.

Honest to god, they drink PBR and eat Oreos because they are vegan. You know, at least the ones I knew because they were alcoholics who liked junk food.

As a former Vegan  I can confirm this, lol! Hubby is still a Vegan and he loves both :P

isnt the cream filling in the oreos vanilla flavord crisco?

well... I guess that is alright then..

lard and butter is technically better for you fat wise, not so much cholesterol wise..so, its a trade up..

for the record, I love carnivore food, omnivore food, vegi, and vegan food..

the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products. using TVP or tofu and what have you to make things that look and taste like meat, but are not actually meat. my thought is that if you miss the shiat so much, just farking eat the real thing and be done with it. seems to me you are just torturing yourself at the end of the day.


and to answer your question about the Oreo, they changed the formula, so now it's animal free.
 
2013-03-16 02:26:21 AM

Lusebagage: RedVentrue: Vegans know that eating animals are unavoidable, and they eat animals every day, right?

Nice grammar, perhaps the animal fats are clogging your brain!  How is eating animals unavoidable? Animals cannot make their own nutrients, they come strictly from plant based sources. When you eat the animals "bladder" (in this case) or any other part, ALL nutrients you derive from it were originally obtained through plants, true fact, look it up.

Vegans don't eat animals everyday, they never eat them, or eggs, or dairy, or cheese, or anything that compromises the integrity of sentient beings.

...Bring it on down to Veganville!


There are microscopic animals on, and in, that plant matter.
 
2013-03-16 02:29:37 AM

mikefinch: MeanJean: You veg types would get more converts if you laid off the "YER A BAD PERSON AND YER KILLING THE PLANET" tirades (which make us want to eat all the meat in the world just to spite you) and instead focused on helping to create veg alternatives to meat that are more affordable and more palatable than the ones we have now.

Eating a veggie diet is easy and delish. Just make dishes you would normally make and omit the meat. Dont replace it with bulgar wheat or some hippy dippy slice of Wham (fake ham). Just omit it. Add more beans and nuts to your diet. Its easy. Just dont eat meat. Thats the whole point. Replacements are always worse than ommiting.

And if i ever hear one of you bastards using 'carob' chips in cookies i will come to your house and beat you to death with a bag of rasins. Rasins suck in cookies but they are still better than 'carob covered in a HIV laden hobo blood'.


You are evil and I hate you.
 
2013-03-16 09:32:02 AM

Giltric: Vegans can make excuses for yeast being a living organism?


I know, and I love to remind them that yeast is technically an animal, not a plant.  Also that agricultural combine harvesters mince up plenty of bugs along with that grain and they all get baked right into every piece of bread you eat with everything else.

Even vegetarians find vegans annoying.
 
2013-03-16 11:44:39 AM

mikefinch: Cerebral Knievel: the biggest issue I have with Vegis or vegans is when they go out of thier way to purchase, or fabricate vegitarian alternatives to meat products.

Stripple. The worst thing ever. It looks like bacon coloured tent patch and it tastes like bacon coloured tent patch.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 640x480]

The funniest part was that the people eating it weren't super strick vegitarians. They would eat steaks once in a bit. They followed leviticus food food laws because they were Seventh Day Adventist...

Not only was it fake meat -- it was fake meat from an animal none of them had ever even tasted. They would go out of their way to eat fake meat from animals their bible called unclean.


That makes sense, since it's a fake religion.
 
2013-03-16 01:41:26 PM

NephilimNexus: I know, and I love to remind them that yeast is technically an animal, not a plant.


Technically, yeast is a fungus, neither an animal nor a plant. But don't worry--trolling is more about tone and timing than knowing your ass from your elbow. You'll do fine.
 
2013-03-16 03:28:36 PM

RedVentrue: You are evil and I hate you.


if it counts for anything i had been awake for 24 hours and when i spelled out the full word it wouldnt give me the correct spelling and i just wanted to get on with it.. I hate that word too.

FloydA: That makes sense, since it's a fake religion.


No arguments here man. Those guys are kooky.
 
2013-03-16 04:03:59 PM
Mikefinch

Eating a veggie diet is easy and delish. Just make dishes you would normally make and omit the meat. Dont replace it with bulgar wheat or some hippy dippy slice of Wham (fake ham). Just omit it. Add more beans and nuts to your diet. Its easy. Just dont eat meat. Thats the whole point. Replacements are always worse than ommiting. '

Beans and nuts, you say? That would work great if I wasn't allergic to tree nuts and didn't have irritable bowel syndrome.
 
2013-03-16 04:23:10 PM

MeanJean: Beans and nuts, you say? That would work great if I wasn't allergic to tree nuts and didn't have irritable bowel syndrome.


If your not vegan Whey powder might help. Tofu? Nothing wrong with tofu if you aren't trying to hide it in a dish that should have meat in it. Its not meat and shouldnt be treated like a meat substitute. Its tofu. Its its own thing and i can respect that. Or seeds? Seeds are packed with protein...

I bet you could make a pretty boss square out of sunflower seeds and dark chocolate and dried cherries...
 
2013-03-16 05:27:53 PM
Mikefinch

Whey powder might help

Nope. Lactose intolerant.

I'll keep your suggestions about tofu and seeds in mind though.
 
2013-03-16 06:19:46 PM

mikefinch: RedVentrue: You are evil and I hate you.

if it counts for anything i had been awake for 24 hours and when i spelled out the full word it wouldnt give me the correct spelling and i just wanted to get on with it.. I hate that word too.

FloydA: That makes sense, since it's a fake religion.

No arguments here man. Those guys are kooky.


I forgive you this time, but don't ever let me catch you doing it again.
 
2013-03-16 06:24:11 PM

mikefinch: RedVentrue: You are evil and I hate you.

if it counts for anything i had been awake for 24 hours and when i spelled out the full word it wouldnt give me the correct spelling and i just wanted to get on with it.. I hate that word too.

FloydA: That makes sense, since it's a fake religion.

No arguments here man. Those guys are kooky.


Just kidding

delicious
 
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