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(EGM Now)   1993: "This game is difficult. I'd better practice more." 2013: "This game is difficult. I'd better complain to the developers until they make it easier for me"   (egmnow.com) divider line 245
    More: Stupid, God of War, narrative structure, linguistics  
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5988 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Mar 2013 at 9:47 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 09:47:17 AM  
Dark Souls 2 comes out this year, your argument is invalid.
 
2013-03-15 09:53:01 AM  
There is a difference between a hard game and an impossible game (See Battletoads).

Ultimately, games need to be balanced to be good. Challenging is far different from being hard as fark and gamers spending pointless hours trying to get past one boss.
 
2013-03-15 09:53:34 AM  
For some reason I simply can not get past the very first part of Bayonetta. Where you have to knock a bunch of enemies off a plane that's going down by performing a specific combo - a "forced tutorial" section. I can not get the button combination down, and just can't beat it. It farking sucks, because I can actually knock the enemies off, but not with the move they want me to use. So I've never played that game beyond the first level.

It's embarassing, but damn it, sometimes devs forget about fun. I guess since it's impossible to get a refund for a game they just don't have to care anyway.
 
2013-03-15 09:54:46 AM  
On one hand, it's a God of War game so I don't give a crap. On the other hand, weak gamers piss me off. Get better or go play Farmville, pussies.
 
2013-03-15 09:58:12 AM  
Beating Ninja Gaiden on NES is still one of the proudest achievements of my life. Screw pansy gamer wannabes. It's supposed to be hard, dammit. Otherwise there's no thrill to winning. Watch a farking movie, you pussy.
 
2013-03-15 10:00:23 AM  

mooseyfate: On one hand, it's a God of War game so I don't give a crap. On the other hand, weak gamers piss me off. Get better or go play Farmville, pussies.


What problem do you have with God of War?
 
2013-03-15 10:01:50 AM  
Teenage mutant ninja turtle for NES, underwater stage, had to disarm bombs.  Intensely annoying.
 
2013-03-15 10:04:08 AM  
Hardest game I ever beat as a kid was Mike Tyson's Punch-Out.

It took me the better part of week of losing to Tyson over and over again until I finally could play that fight perfectly.
 
2013-03-15 10:04:38 AM  

mooseyfate: On one hand, it's a God of War game so I don't give a crap. On the other hand, weak gamers piss me off. Get better or go play Farmville, pussies.


Yeah, let's keep games super difficult so that 90% of the population is turned off by them. Then we can have drastically reduced developer budgets, fewer released per year, and once again assume the moniker of "geek" and receive scorn from the majority!

Tell ya what, Spanky.  You play whatever games you want, on whatever difficulty level you want, and if you feel like opening your mouth, then try to fit the entire XBox controller in it before you speak. The original one.
 
2013-03-15 10:06:03 AM  

Gergesa: Teenage mutant ninja turtle for NES, underwater stage, had to disarm bombs.  Intensely annoying.


I've always wondered how much of that is due to the game being hard and how much of it is due to my being 8 or 9 when I played that game.  I wonder if it would be easier now.  Anybody know if they released that game for Wii Virtual Console or PSN?
 
2013-03-15 10:07:17 AM  

mooseyfate: On one hand, it's a God of War game so I don't give a crap. On the other hand, weak gamers piss me off. Get better or go play Farmville, pussies.


I don't have 90 hours per week to practice the latest twitch game to beat one boss.  When a game has a steadily-increasing (but manageable) difficulty, and then suddenly cranks the difficulty up to 11 for a boss level, I'm done.  I've got other things I'd rather spend my time on than to keep playing the same level over and over.
 
2013-03-15 10:07:40 AM  

rugman11: Gergesa: Teenage mutant ninja turtle for NES, underwater stage, had to disarm bombs.  Intensely annoying.

I've always wondered how much of that is due to the game being hard and how much of it is due to my being 8 or 9 when I played that game.  I wonder if it would be easier now.  Anybody know if they released that game for Wii Virtual Console or PSN?


Someone turned it into a flash game or something.  I remember it floating around fark a while back.
 
2013-03-15 10:07:55 AM  
I like/love "hard" when it means you better be smart and paying attention.

I don't mind when "hard" means you better have some serious button dexterity (I've lost my taste for these games as I've gotten older but it's probably just because i don't have the reflexes of a 15 year old anymore).

I hate when "hard" means you need a one-in-a-thousand roll on the RNG and you are going to bang your head into this wall until you get that magical roll.
 
2013-03-15 10:08:16 AM  

LesserEvil: There is a difference between a hard game and an impossible game (See Battletoads).

Ultimately, games need to be balanced to be good. Challenging is far different from being hard as fark and gamers spending pointless hours trying to get past one boss.


Something has happened over the last decade of gaming that makes people care less and less about enjoying the game and more about achievements(or trophies)/finishing so you can complain about it.
The Nintendo Hard days of gaming are almost entirely behind us and now the focus is the cut scene movie not being interrupted by highly detailed challenges that aren't too hard so you can watch the next cutscene. Why can't we just be thankful (most+) modern games are at least playable.

www.kappacino.com

*I own a copy of Blacksite: Area 51
 
2013-03-15 10:08:26 AM  

Theaetetus: mooseyfate: On one hand, it's a God of War game so I don't give a crap. On the other hand, weak gamers piss me off. Get better or go play Farmville, pussies.

Yeah, let's keep games super difficult so that 90% of the population is turned off by them. Then we can have drastically reduced developer budgets, fewer released per year, and once again assume the moniker of "geek" and receive scorn from the majority!

Tell ya what, Spanky.  You play whatever games you want, on whatever difficulty level you want, and if you feel like opening your mouth, then try to fit the entire XBox controller in it before you speak. The original one.


That escalated quickly.

Honestly, though, I really don't know what to say, other than it's hard to tell if this is just another example of the echo chamber effect or not.
 
2013-03-15 10:10:01 AM  

LesserEvil: There is a difference between a hard game and an impossible game (See Battletoads).

Ultimately, games need to be balanced to be good. Challenging is far different from being hard as fark and gamers spending pointless hours trying to get past one boss.


A variant of that is where the difficulty doesn't scale in a fun way, or it seems like it's just a variant of what you've done before.  Batman: Arkham Asylum was a great game but good God by the time I got to the Joker at the end I was sick of beating up Titan-inflated enemies for what felt like the tenth time.  If you're going to have that many boss battles at least change up the skills required.
 
2013-03-15 10:10:45 AM  

untaken_name: Beating Ninja Gaiden on NES is still one of the proudest achievements of my life.


You're awfully full of yourself for a guy who holds up as one of his greatest achievements sitting on his ass staring into a cathode ray tube until he finally memorized the positions of every sprite in an old video game most people have never played.
 
2013-03-15 10:11:19 AM  

nmrsnr: Dark Souls 2 comes out this year, your argument is invalid.


Those games aren't really that hard - they just punish the leap before you look mentality of the ADD generation.
 
2013-03-15 10:11:20 AM  
I've played it, and it was kind of hard. I was more annoyed the by the time shifting puzzle in Delphi with the giant hourglass and the swinging chandelier. They give you cues that actually, to me anyway, lead you astray from the solution.

The game is a lot of fun though. There is nothing like highly polished and stylized brutality to help a guy unwind after a tough day at work.
 
2013-03-15 10:13:01 AM  

taliesinwi: A variant of that is where the difficulty doesn't scale in a fun way, or it seems like it's just a variant of what you've done before. Batman: Arkham Asylum was a great game but good God by the time I got to the Joker at the end I was sick of beating up Titan-inflated enemies for what felt like the tenth time. If you're going to have that many boss battles at least change up the skills required.


God of War is great in that regard.
 
2013-03-15 10:13:32 AM  

HallsOfMandos: Those games aren't really that hard - they just punish the leap before you look mentality of the ADD generation.


Hey, now. Leave AD&D out of this. Baldur's Gate did the same thing. Especially if you turned the difficulty up.
 
2013-03-15 10:14:17 AM  

LesserEvil: There is a difference between a hard game and an impossible game (See Battletoads).


Battletoads is only impossible in 2-player.  And even then only in the North American release.

In 1-player, it's perfectly doable.  If you're a shiny golden gaming god.

/I never got past Clinger Winger
 
2013-03-15 10:14:49 AM  

skozlaw: HallsOfMandos: Those games aren't really that hard - they just punish the leap before you look mentality of the ADD generation.

Hey, now. Leave AD&D out of this. Baldur's Gate did the same thing. Especially if you turned the difficulty up.


notusreifserious.jpg

I meant attention deficit....squirrel!
 
2013-03-15 10:14:53 AM  
God of Bore... meh..

Surely it would have been simpler to correct the input mechanism... ie, replace that waggle-stick with something capable of precision input... something futuristic and super expensive, I imagine...

Who're we kidding.. couldn't *possibly* exist yet...
 
2013-03-15 10:15:25 AM  

HallsOfMandos: skozlaw: HallsOfMandos: Those games aren't really that hard - they just punish the leap before you look mentality of the ADD generation.

Hey, now. Leave AD&D out of this. Baldur's Gate did the same thing. Especially if you turned the difficulty up.

notSUREifserious.jpg

I meant attention deficit....squirrel!


FTFM
 
2013-03-15 10:17:29 AM  

rugman11: Gergesa: Teenage mutant ninja turtle for NES, underwater stage, had to disarm bombs.  Intensely annoying.

I've always wondered how much of that is due to the game being hard and how much of it is due to my being 8 or 9 when I played that game.  I wonder if it would be easier now.  Anybody know if they released that game for Wii Virtual Console or PSN?


Would they even be able to? I know TMNT just got sold to Nickelodeon; does Konami still have the video game rights?
 
2013-03-15 10:19:01 AM  
www.infinitecities.com
 
2013-03-15 10:20:40 AM  

HallsOfMandos: nmrsnr: Dark Souls 2 comes out this year, your argument is invalid.

Those games aren't really that hard - they just punish the leap before you look mentality of the ADD generation.


It's more than that, it's the exact same mechanism of pattern learning and patience (and lack of save points) that made old NES games difficult. Ninja Gaiden wasn't "hard" in any way other than you could not afford to mess up the pattern you spent weeks learning if you harbored any hope of winning, but it was all about learning where the bad guys were and what attack they were about to launch. Dark Souls is the same, know where the bad guys spawn, and learn their attacks so you can effectively counter, once you have the pattern down after the fiftieth try, just don't fark up.
 
2013-03-15 10:21:12 AM  

nulluspixiusdemonica: God of Bore... meh..

Surely it would have been simpler to correct the input mechanism... ie, replace that waggle-stick with something capable of precision input... something futuristic and super expensive, I imagine...

Who're we kidding.. couldn't *possibly* exist yet...


Are you seriously suggesting that God of War would benefit from having a keyboard and mouse input?

I'm a PC gamer and I love the keyboard and mouse combo as much as the next guy but it's not the right control mechanism for every game and certainly not for God of War. My PC always has a wired Xbox controller plugged in. Even when I was playing Farcry 3 I always picked up the controller for driving because the analog control was much better for acceleration and turning purposes.
 
2013-03-15 10:22:10 AM  
1993: "This game is difficult. I'd better practice more." 2013: "I'm a goddamn grown man. fark this nonsense"
 
2013-03-15 10:22:12 AM  

Gergesa: Teenage mutant ninja turtle for NES, underwater stage, had to disarm bombs.  Intensely annoying.


That was totally beatable. Switch turtles appropriately, and a loss of one means you still are on track to beat the next stage with them all.
 
2013-03-15 10:22:40 AM  

rugman11: Gergesa: Teenage mutant ninja turtle for NES, underwater stage, had to disarm bombs.  Intensely annoying.

I've always wondered how much of that is due to the game being hard and how much of it is due to my being 8 or 9 when I played that game.  I wonder if it would be easier now.  Anybody know if they released that game for Wii Virtual Console or PSN?


I've found myself wondering the same about a few games from the NES days that I remember being particularly tough, and wondering if being older and more experienced with video games would make them easier.  So I fired up an emulator and loaded up some games of old.  I was worse than I was when I was a little kid.  I totally got my ass handed to me at first.  I assume that after a while I'd be able to get back to my previous abilities, but I'm not a masochist so if it's not fun I won't stay with it for long.
 
2013-03-15 10:23:46 AM  

untaken_name: Beating Ninja Gaiden on NES is still one of the proudest achievements of my life. Screw pansy gamer wannabes. It's supposed to be hard, dammit. Otherwise there's no thrill to winning. Watch a farking movie, you pussy.


In what universe does the ability to beat a NES game allow you to call anyone a pussy? I mean really, you hit the A and B button in the correct order and you c

The thing about game difficulty reminds me of MMO raiding. Boss gets released, no one can kill it. People comlplain and cry, call it RNG fail (hilarious btw since everything is based on RNG anyway) and eventually it gets patched. Then everyone kills it. People complain and cry it is too easy.

The take away from this is gamers are morons, and I say that as a life long gamer. There is a delicate balance to the difficulty of a game, it has to be hard enough that there is a sense of accomplishment but it can't be do hard that it feels pointless and grindy.

The real problem is a lot of people get so much self worth from this shiat that they want it to be at a level of difficulty where they can do it, but no one else can, so they can tell everyone else how much they suck and what pussies they are for not doing it. See the comments in this thread and TFA for examples: "OMG doodz y u nerf it? I beat it in 10 minutes with my eyes closed, you must suck at the game if you can't beat it!"
 
2013-03-15 10:25:27 AM  

mooseyfate: On one hand, it's a God of War game so I don't give a crap. On the other hand, weak gamers piss me off. Get better or go play Farmville, pussies.


Weren't you ranting about power gamers playing primarily to win and (ab)using power combos in another thread?

If so, you hate any gamer better OR worse than you?

Or do you just troll gaming threads with hyperbolic rubbish?
 
2013-03-15 10:25:53 AM  

Neondistraction: rugman11: Gergesa: Teenage mutant ninja turtle for NES, underwater stage, had to disarm bombs.  Intensely annoying.

I've always wondered how much of that is due to the game being hard and how much of it is due to my being 8 or 9 when I played that game.  I wonder if it would be easier now.  Anybody know if they released that game for Wii Virtual Console or PSN?

I've found myself wondering the same about a few games from the NES days that I remember being particularly tough, and wondering if being older and more experienced with video games would make them easier.  So I fired up an emulator and loaded up some games of old.  I was worse than I was when I was a little kid.  I totally got my ass handed to me at first.  I assume that after a while I'd be able to get back to my previous abilities, but I'm not a masochist so if it's not fun I won't stay with it for long.


I dunno me and my brother can beat the hell out of Contra without the Konami code now. When we were kids we used to lose hard. One day we lost even with the code, that was a dark day.  Every so often we break out the NES and pummel that game just for fun.
 
2013-03-15 10:27:34 AM  

ModernLuddite: It's embarassing, but damn it, sometimes devs forget about fun.


dl.dropbox.com

Its a forced tutorial for a reason, you are learning what the developer has deemed a survival skill.

The difference between games and passive media is that games are supposed to challenge us.   We've got to evolve past those challenges or there's no point.   It would be like watching an hour long movie by way of following arrows for five hours.


/Generation X: To Play is to suffer, pain develops character, bring on the suck!
/Generation Y-OLO!:I am entitled to see the end of the game I bought.
/Nothing personal, but I see this as the root of the misunderstanding that ruins modern games.
 
2013-03-15 10:34:07 AM  
way south:
/Generation X: To Play is to suffer, pain develops character, bring on the suck!
/Generation Y-OLO!:I am entitled to see the end of the game I bought.
/Nothing personal, but I see this as the root of the misunderstanding that ruins modern games.


Generation y grew up in the 80s and early 90s. We were playing all the 'notoriously' difficult games when we less than 10 years old. Not that it matters because these named 'generations' are farkign stupid and people who attribute any meaning to them are farking retarded.
 
2013-03-15 10:40:19 AM  

LesserEvil: There is a difference between a hard game and an impossible game (See Battletoads).

Ultimately, games need to be balanced to be good. Challenging is far different from being hard as fark and gamers spending pointless hours trying to get past one boss.


Bears repeating a million times.

There have been several games in recent years that I've gotten  all the way up to the end boss and quit because, after a reasonably challenging game all the way through, the final boss requires the twitchy reflexes of a 15-year-old on his fifth redbull, and the ability to make every move absolutely perfectly.  That's not hard, that's bad design.
 
2013-03-15 10:40:27 AM  

way south: /Generation X: To Play is to suffer, pain develops character, bring on the suck!
/Generation Y-OLO!:I am entitled to see the end of the game I bought.
/Nothing personal, but I see this as the root of the misunderstanding that ruins modern games.


The idea that people feel entitled to play the entire game, regardless of their personal ability level, is "ruining" modern games? No... It's ruining your ability to brag about how you're so elite because you got to see the end of a game and others didn't.
 
2013-03-15 10:41:29 AM  
Game sof yesteryear were hard because as arcade ports, they were designed to milk quarters form players by being a bit unfair.  As more and more games became home console/pc exclusive, they retooled difficulty to be fun, rather then designed to make you see the continue screen often.

Now, there are still plenty of difficult games out there, but even they become trivial when you really break down the mechanics.  Super meatboy and dark souls, for example, can be completed pretty easily once you get how they work.
 
2013-03-15 10:43:41 AM  

Antimatter: Game sof yesteryear were hard because as arcade ports, they were designed to milk quarters form players by being a bit unfair.  As more and more games became home console/pc exclusive, they retooled difficulty to be fun, rather then designed to make you see the continue screen often.

Now, there are still plenty of difficult games out there, but even they become trivial when you really break down the mechanics.  Super meatboy and dark souls, for example, can be completed pretty easily once you get how they work.


There's always Super Mario Frustration.
 
2013-03-15 10:44:14 AM  

Neondistraction: rugman11: Gergesa: Teenage mutant ninja turtle for NES, underwater stage, had to disarm bombs.  Intensely annoying.

I've always wondered how much of that is due to the game being hard and how much of it is due to my being 8 or 9 when I played that game.  I wonder if it would be easier now.  Anybody know if they released that game for Wii Virtual Console or PSN?

I've found myself wondering the same about a few games from the NES days that I remember being particularly tough, and wondering if being older and more experienced with video games would make them easier.  So I fired up an emulator and loaded up some games of old.  I was worse than I was when I was a little kid.  I totally got my ass handed to me at first.  I assume that after a while I'd be able to get back to my previous abilities, but I'm not a masochist so if it's not fun I won't stay with it for long.


I can no longer complete DuckTales on the "Difficult" difficulty setting, though I may be able to do so again with practice.

Conversely, my performance in Mega Man 2 has improved substantially; while I cannot complete the game with a single life, I can do so -- on the standard ("Difficult") difficulty setting -- without using the "Continue" feature.

/Playing Mega Man 2 at least once per year probably helps.
 
2013-03-15 10:45:28 AM  
Kids want Kratos to have a fairy sidekick holding his hand and telling him what to do every 10 seconds?  "Kratos!  Kratos!  That monster is covered in tough scales!  You won't be able to damage him unless you can find a weak spot!"
 
2013-03-15 10:46:55 AM  
Am I alone in having played all four of the main games in the Kings Field series to completion?

/Am I alone in having enjoyed playing them?
 
2013-03-15 10:50:28 AM  
People are complaining that Gears of War, in Ancient Greece this Time, and It's Really Different We Promise are complaining the game is too hard?

Eh. I think I'll go play Devil May Cry 3 out of spite.
 
2013-03-15 10:51:30 AM  
Turtles, I beat eventually when I was a kid. Battletoads, close but no cigar....the tower always farked me. Tyson, I've beaten so many times I can do it with a keyboard on an emulator...Super Macho Man was harder than him.

You know people whining about difficulty never grew up on old games. Prolly never played pinball either for real.
 
2013-03-15 10:52:27 AM  

LesserEvil: There is a difference between a hard game and an impossible game (See Battletoads).

Ultimately, games need to be balanced to be good. Challenging is far different from being hard as fark and gamers spending pointless hours trying to get past one boss.


This; however the guy complaining about how "hard" God of War is to play is a pussy.
 
2013-03-15 10:53:15 AM  

that bosnian sniper: People are complaining that Gears of War, in Ancient Greece this Time, and It's Really Different We Promise are complaining the game is too hard?

Eh. I think I'll go play Devil May Cry 3 out of spite.


I'll go play DMC4 in Son of Sparta mode myself.

/Still an awesome game to play
 
2013-03-15 10:57:14 AM  

H31N0US: 1993: "This game is difficult. I'd better practice more." 2013: "I'm a goddamn grown man. fark this nonsense"


That.

I play games to have fun and blow off steam, and my schedule (jobs, kid) means I only have so much time to play. Beating my head against a wall to get past a boss/stage isn't really in the offing.

/Gave up WoW last summer for much the same reason. Dailies got stale and I didn't have the time or wherewithal for dungeon runs/LFR.
 
2013-03-15 11:01:16 AM  
In know how you feel subby.  I too hate it when a game developer actually listens to its customers and makes adjustments to their game based on that feedback.  It's just horrible.
 
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