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(Bloomberg)   U.S factory employees averaged a record 41.9 hours a week in February, or as six-year-old Nike workers call it: the swing shift   (bloomberg.com) divider line 58
    More: Interesting, Rosie the Riveter, Nazis, U.S., Chevrolet Silverado, axles, John Challenger, General Motors Co., time and a halfs  
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1229 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Mar 2013 at 11:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 09:31:39 AM  
yeah, but how many of those are actually "worked".

Is it irony that I typed that from my office during standard business hours?
 
2013-03-15 11:05:19 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: yeah, but how many of those are actually "worked".

Is it irony that I typed that from my office during standard business hours?


It is more difficult to slack when you are working on the production line. You can be a lot lazier in your cubicle.
 
2013-03-15 11:13:53 AM  
And all without a raise in salary!

USA! USA! USA!
 
2013-03-15 11:25:15 AM  
It is a testament to laughable gullibility of the American worker.

Only we Americans are stupid enough to work ourselves to death (willingly, not from desperation) to make someone else rich and be proud of it.
 
2013-03-15 11:33:20 AM  
Fark: Where 41.9 hours a week is "working yourself to death"

You never disappoint me.....
 
2013-03-15 11:38:34 AM  
At least they aren't being exploited by a union.
 
2013-03-15 11:42:24 AM  
I would love to have a 42 hour work week, it would nearly be a vacation.

/pegged at 240 hour PTO limit
 
2013-03-15 11:45:55 AM  

The Muthaship: Fark: Where 41.9 hours a week is "working yourself to death"

You never disappoint me.....


Yeah!  Why can't we be like Mitt Romney's ideal Chinese worker who never looks up from their workbench for fear of being beatenbecause they just love working so much?
 
2013-03-15 11:49:30 AM  
My plant runs 24/7, we have four shift crews, with two 12 hour shifts.  In a shift week (Sunday - Saturday), 3 of the crews will work 4 shifts and one crew will work two shiats.  This averages out to 42 hours/wk per four weeks (when the cycle repeats itself).  I think this is a fairly common rotation in industry.  Salaried folks tend to work days.

There may be some fancy accounting work/time clock manipulation that means employees don't get 8 hours of OT 3 out of 4 weeks, but I don't know how that works.
 
kab
2013-03-15 11:52:21 AM  
Ah, FARK.  Where the industrious chime in about how they work harder than anyone else.

And then head to the politics tab.
 
2013-03-15 12:04:03 PM  
Im finally back on "normal" hours for me. Last month my boss quit/got fired and since then we have been cleaning the 2 year mess he left us. Two years of work left there piled up, records unkept, clients pissed. When corporate came to help fix things five out of six buildings on campus failed to meet the minimum audit requirements. Only building that passed was mine, since I pretty much ignored my boss and ran it like I was supposed to. Ive been working so much hardly had time to mess around on fark and that made me sad. But things are pretty much back to normal got lotsa nice OT, and a bonus.
 
2013-03-15 01:19:19 PM  
So, you mean they are working real jobs now?
 
2013-03-15 01:36:36 PM  
A friend of mine who runs presses for a custom print design shop has been putting in about 60 hours a week for two months.  They mostly create marketing materials for trade shows and advertisement stock.

This is a good indicator because marketing is one of the first things to be cut in a downturn and the last to come back.  If you're increasing your marketing costs, it indicates that you're confident about booking more revenue.

Another takeaway is that when you see numbers this high you should expect hiring to increase.  Employers don't like shelling out for time and a half.
 
2013-03-15 01:37:57 PM  
And they all earned a fat $220 paycheck for that work.

/What is this "factory" thing of which you speak?
 
2013-03-15 01:56:04 PM  

Rapmaster2000: A friend of mine who runs presses for a custom print design shop has been putting in about 60 hours a week for two months.  They mostly create marketing materials for trade shows and advertisement stock.

This is a good indicator because marketing is one of the first things to be cut in a downturn and the last to come back.  If you're increasing your marketing costs, it indicates that you're confident about booking more revenue.

Another takeaway is that when you see numbers this high you should expect hiring to increase.  Employers don't like shelling out for time and a half.


I don't get that. One would think marketing is one of the places that holds customers and brings in new ones during a downturn; pushing your product harder even during worse times will poach from the competition. Then again I also wonder why H.R. manages to survive virtually everything when the people who make money or prevent money loss are the first to get laid off during the downturn.
 
2013-03-15 02:21:16 PM  
Remember, 42 hours is ignorning vacation/sick/personal/holiday time, so it's closer to actually 50 hours in a full five day week.
 
2013-03-15 02:30:38 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Another takeaway is that when you see numbers this high you should expect hiring to increase. Employers don't like shelling out for time and a half.


They already solved that problem:
- Every position is now an administrative or professional position, and therefore exempt from overtime.
- Any position that is not exempt, is farmed out to H1B1 visa employees who let themselves get abused because they can't change employeers and know if they get fired they'll be sent back to the 3rd world shiathole they came from.
 
2013-03-15 02:36:54 PM  

kab: Ah, FARK.  Where the industrious chime in about how they work harder than anyone else.

And then head to the politics tab.


I watch the work on the shop floor out the window of my office. Does that count?

/and do CAD/CAM, quoting/invoicing and talking on the phone while hanging on Fark
 
2013-03-15 02:38:42 PM  
"The workweeks are very, very, very long right now, on a historical basis," said Michael Montgomery, U.S. economist at IHS Global Insight in Lexington, http://topics.bloomberg.com/massachusetts/" density="full">Massachusetts."

Nice liberal bias.

I will give him very, very but no way is 42 hours very, very, very long

/meh
 
2013-03-15 02:40:44 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Remember, 42 hours is ignorning vacation/sick/personal/holiday time, so it's closer to actually 50 hours in a full five day week.


it's an average though so  i think it would account for all that, no?
 
2013-03-15 02:42:04 PM  

ShawnDoc: Rapmaster2000: Another takeaway is that when you see numbers this high you should expect hiring to increase. Employers don't like shelling out for time and a half.

They already solved that problem:
- Every position is now an administrative or professional position, and therefore exempt from overtime.
- Any position that is not exempt, is farmed out to H1B1 visa employees who let themselves get abused because they can't change employeers and know if they get fired they'll be sent back to the 3rd world shiathole they came from.


Either that or they get the gov't to exempt it (see IT).
 
2013-03-15 02:58:28 PM  

ajgeek: Rapmaster2000:

I don't get that. One would think marketing is one of the places that holds customers and brings in new ones during a downturn; pushing your product harder even during worse times will poach from the competition. Then again I also wonder why H.R. manages to survive virtually everything when the people who make money or prevent money loss are the first to get laid off during the downturn.


Let me step back a moment.

Many things are marketing beyond advertising. So firms will continue to market always in areas like sales promotions.  Now for things like advertising and trade shows (the type of marketing I was referring to), those are generally cut-down in a bad economy.  For example, here's a glance at SB ad rates:
2004--$2,300,000
2003--$2,100,000
2002--$1,900,000
2001--$2,100,000
2000--$2,200,000
1999--$1,600,000
1998--$1,300,000

Also, trade show attendance has only risen back to 2008 levels this year:   http://www.gazette.com/articles/industry-136819-trade-convention.html

The point is, in a recession you aren't poaching customers because the recession is limiting the customer pool.  There's no one to steal.
 
2013-03-15 03:00:28 PM  

ShawnDoc: Rapmaster2000: Another takeaway is that when you see numbers this high you should expect hiring to increase. Employers don't like shelling out for time and a half.

They already solved that problem:
- Every position is now an administrative or professional position, and therefore exempt from overtime.
- Any position that is not exempt, is farmed out to H1B1 visa employees who let themselves get abused because they can't change employeers and know if they get fired they'll be sent back to the 3rd world shiathole they came from.


I (and the article) was referring to manufacturing. You don't do an H1B1 for a $10 an hour line job.

Production workers averaged 41.9 hours a week in February, Labor Department data showed last week.
 
2013-03-15 03:08:01 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Production workers averaged 41.9 hours a week in February, Labor Department data showed last week.


Give them an hour a week in the office and they're now administrative staff, or give them a part timer to be a mentor to, and now they're management and exempt.

Why yes I am cynical.

(But you're right, pretty much factory line workers are the only job that's no longer exempt from mandatory overtime)
 
2013-03-15 03:17:49 PM  
They are just damn luck that they HAVE jobs!

amirite?
 
2013-03-15 05:00:22 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-03-15 05:06:04 PM  
Humanity is really working itself out great. Make George Jetson blush.
 
2013-03-15 05:22:08 PM  

johnny_vegas: Nice liberal bias.

I will give him very, very but no way is 42 hours very, very, very long

/meh


"On a historical basis".  Tied for the highest month since 1944.
 
2013-03-15 05:57:06 PM  
Hey waitafugginminute, isn't everybody supposed to have their hours cut so they don't get Obamacare?
 
2013-03-15 06:17:28 PM  

Rapmaster2000: The point is, in a recession you aren't poaching customers because the recession is limiting the customer pool. There's no one to steal.


Ah, thank you. Business is not my strong suit.
 
2013-03-15 07:17:35 PM  

The Muthaship: Fark: Where 41.9 hours a week is "working yourself to death"

You never disappoint me.....


You should google "hyperbole," and also look into getting something for your butthurt.
 
2013-03-15 09:16:00 PM  
Those management bastards cut their hours?

Actually, the place I left in September was working the shop floor 60-80 hour weeks for the last three years so it must be cheaper to pay time and a half than hire.

/hourly engineer
 
2013-03-15 09:21:49 PM  
41.9 hours? Cry a river
 
2013-03-15 09:22:57 PM  

Rapmaster2000: A friend of mine who runs presses for a custom print design shop has been putting in about 60 hours a week for two months.  They mostly create marketing materials for trade shows and advertisement stock.

This is a good indicator because marketing is one of the first things to be cut in a downturn and the last to come back.  If you're increasing your marketing costs, it indicates that you're confident about booking more revenue.

Another takeaway is that when you see numbers this high you should expect hiring to increase.  Employers don't like shelling out for time and a half.


Headcount. When I worked in manufacturing, they would gladly pay us for 80 hours (40 regular, 20 OT, 20 at double pay) rather than hire more people. Why? Because the ONLY metric the head office cared about was headcount. Overtime hours were considered good by them because it meant fewer workers. Every worker represented a major liability-- someone who could sue the company for something, someone who could eventually seek unemployment if terminated without cause, someone they had to pay benefits for.(made me laugh, they had no benefits to speak of).

I worked 70-80 hours a week for a year at that job, covering a shift and a half and working Saturday and Sunday. So did most others in the our section. When work started to slow, they didn't reduce hours. They laid off workers and kept everyone else working at the same 70-80 hours a week.
 
2013-03-15 09:56:09 PM  

Free Radical: And all without a raise in salary!

USA! USA! USA!


And if you ask for one, you're one of the greedy, expendable ones.

And if you're in a union, you're one of the greedy, lazy ones.

/...and the Great Suppression continues...
 
2013-03-15 11:39:44 PM  
The fun part is comparing that average with the averages from other industrialized countries, especially those in the EU.
 
2013-03-16 01:03:17 AM  

FormlessOne: The fun part is comparing that average with the averages from other industrialized countries, especially those in the EU.


But then people will tell you the EU isn't realistic and nations like China and India are where the "true" hard workers are.  They aren't hard workers, they're just cowards that haven't fought exploitation yet.   I imagine it's getting close in China, they'll have a union revolution in the next couple decades and some other country will find itself the toilet of the manufacturing world.
 
2013-03-16 01:22:03 AM  

Ethertap: My plant runs 24/7, we have four shift crews, with two 12 hour shifts.  In a shift week (Sunday - Saturday), 3 of the crews will work 4 shifts and one crew will work two shiats.  This averages out to 42 hours/wk per four weeks (when the cycle repeats itself).  I think this is a fairly common rotation in industry.  Salaried folks tend to work days.

There may be some fancy accounting work/time clock manipulation that means employees don't get 8 hours of OT 3 out of 4 weeks, but I don't know how that works.


That was a fairly common part of industry in better times. It's great your place is doing well and people are employed. I'm hearing way too many stories from people who were cut back to 4 days a week, are losing benefits and if they do bring someone on it's with no bene's at all. These are the folks who have a place to go to; the unemployed eventually get pushed off the stats WashDC recites and they're forgotten about.
 
2013-03-16 03:15:22 AM  
I would love to consistently have over 40 hours a week.  I'm stuck in a wage-based job, and my boss has been careful to direct work away from me so I hardly even get to 40 a week, much less overtime.  Of course, a couple days ago I got stuck working over 16 hours in one day, because he finally ran out of other places to hide work, and we had a major deadline to meet...
 
2013-03-16 03:55:14 AM  
In the 30's we toiled away to stop the fascists.

Today we toil away in service to them.
 
2013-03-16 05:18:52 AM  

nmemkha: It is a testament to laughable gullibility of the American worker.

Only we Americans are stupid enough to work ourselves to death (willingly, not from desperation) to make someone else rich and be proud of it.


66 and 69 hours on my last two timesheets, yes, fark it.
 
2013-03-16 05:49:08 AM  
I just don't understand how being salaried as an engineer suddenly makes me exempt from overtime. When the hourly techs go home, who do you think finishes the piping, insulation, wiring, and every other damned job to get shiat running? Correct, the engineers. Same work, so how the fark is it cool to pay them time and a half and not me? Some people go "because you still get your salary when they have to get cut hours because there isn't enough work." Bullshiat, because I'm always over. Maybe half our engineering staff (r&d, roughly fifty total employees) routinely overworks like that get shiat done but the other half is more eight and skate types. Yet we all got shiatty bonuses last year anyways.

I'm really tied to the area and even though I'm looking its still tough to find this kind of work here. But yes, I'm looking.

If I even got comped farking half time for all my retarded OT I'd be ecstatic.
 
2013-03-16 06:54:08 AM  

Tio_Holtzmann: I just don't understand how being salaried as an engineer suddenly makes me exempt from overtime. When the hourly techs go home, who do you think finishes the piping, insulation, wiring, and every other damned job to get shiat running? Correct, the engineers. Same work, so how the fark is it cool to pay them time and a half and not me? Some people go "because you still get your salary when they have to get cut hours because there isn't enough work." Bullshiat, because I'm always over. Maybe half our engineering staff (r&d, roughly fifty total employees) routinely overworks like that get shiat done but the other half is more eight and skate types. Yet we all got shiatty bonuses last year anyways.

I'm really tied to the area and even though I'm looking its still tough to find this kind of work here. But yes, I'm looking.

If I even got comped farking half time for all my retarded OT I'd be ecstatic.


Because Big Business wants to exclude "professionals" from OT requirements. Frankly I think it is BS for the reasons you put forward. Tie everyone's compensation to the clock, or no one. I'm a truck driver, I drive OTR with another guy in a straight truck doing expedite. We are each capped on how much driving we can do, based on our "on duty" clock. Only thing is that we're actually never off duty. I'm in a truck stop right now, waiting for a load. We are on call round the clock waiting for the phone to ring. I am actually "on duty" 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. We only get paid based on how many miles we drive, however. So all this on duty time, spent either in the truck or at a truck stop away from home, is unpaid for. I make about $45k a year and after home time (3 days a month) and out of service for breakdowns (figure 15 days a year) I figure that it puts me at roughly $11.94 an hour, but that is before taxes since I am a 1099 employee and counts all 84 hours a week as regular time. If we count 44 hours as overtime, well, I hold a liberal arts degree and that higher math stuff starts to strain my brain so I'll just say that if I were a regular employee I figure that I would be making about $6 an hour plus overtime.

If I were a truck owner driving the straight truck I would probably clear an additional $20K a year, which would at least put me into above minimum wage as a base, plus overtime.

I've already made my decision to switch to local deliveries because this is for the birds. I can't morally justify working at below minimum wage like this.
 
2013-03-16 07:39:22 AM  

BolloxReader: 84 hours a week as regular time. If we count 44 hours as overtime, well, I hold a liberal arts degree and that higher math stuff starts to strain my brain so I'll just say that if I were a regular employee I figure that I would be making about $6 an hour plus overtime.


You need 40x+44*1.5x = 84*11.94, so 104x = 1003, so x = $9.64 an hour. Not $6.

Next time you want to make stuff up, please at least be close.  You could have seen that 6 was wrong because time and a half would be 9 an hour. To average out to 11.94 an hour, you'd need the  time and a half figure to be bigger than 11.94. 9 is less than 11.94.
 
2013-03-16 09:40:36 AM  

jack21221: You need 40x+44*1.5x = 84*11.94, so 104x = 1003, so x = $9.64 an hour. Not $6.

Next time you want to make stuff up, please at least be close. You could have seen that 6 was wrong because time and a half would be 9 an hour. To average out to 11.94 an hour, you'd need the time and a half figure to be bigger than 11.94. 9 is less than 11.94.


Don't forget to subtract out an additional (Medicare = 1.45%, + SS = 4.2%, + Employer contribution = 7.65%, for a total of 13.3%) on the Schedule SE.  Although a 1099 employee who is doing it right has remembered that just about everything is deductible from Schedule C, and so will only pay the 13.3% on a small fraction of his actual "income".
That total goes up to 15.3% this year, since the "payroll tax holiday" expired, and rightfully so, on January 1st.

/The SS portion of the payroll tax should be uncapped, period.  Who's with me?
 
2013-03-16 10:04:04 PM  

vossiewulf: I would love to have a 42 hour work week, it would nearly be a vacation.

/pegged at 240 hour PTO limit


We cap at 300 hours, and I'm nearly there. I've about had it with this work bullshiat.
 
2013-03-17 12:35:38 AM  
when I worked EMS, I was averaging in 90 hours a week. Now i'm in nursing and average 50 hours a week. I'm also gonna cap my PL soon. Still broke. USA USA USA USA.
 
2013-03-17 02:27:03 AM  

nmemkha: It is a testament to laughable gullibility of the American worker.

Only we Americans are stupid enough to work ourselves to death (willingly, not from desperation) to make someone else rich and be proud of it.


Not only in America, you can include most countries, no matter which political system runs them.

The richer are getting richer, the poor are getting  poorer almost everywhere on Earth,
 
2013-03-17 03:23:16 AM  

Tio_Holtzmann: I just don't understand how being salaried as an engineer suddenly makes me exempt from overtime.


That's the definition of being a "salaried" worker, Einstein.  In exchange for having a guaranteed paycheck every pay period, regardless of whether or not you work at least 7.5 hours a day, you become exempt from overtime pay.

I'm a wage earner, and would kill for a guaranteed paycheck regardless of whether I put in 40 a week.  I count on overtime to cover almost 20% of my earnings every year, because without it I can't pay the bills.
 
2013-03-17 10:36:40 AM  
 I average 50-55 hours a week since about February of last year.  The last week I pulled under that was a couple months ago when I managed to slice my foot open at home and only worked two days that week plus a day of scheduled vacation, and I still cleared 40 hours total.  Now, mind you, if our leadership ever ran things intelligently and/or added a second shift, it would drop like a rock.

And on the other hand, because of the way the place is run, I have had to promise Mrs. Coast that I will quit that asylum if I'm ever forced to take a salary - otherwise I'd be in there seven days a week.
 
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