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(CBS News)   Rick Perry says Romney and McCain were not conservatives, nor true Scotsman   (cbsnews.com) divider line 63
    More: Dumbass, John McCain, Rick Perry, Scotsman, republican presidential candidates  
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791 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Mar 2013 at 9:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-15 09:20:16 AM  
i345.photobucket.com

Girl is witnessing the birth of Republican policy

Now more from Perry.
 
2013-03-15 09:28:54 AM  
I think this is great stuff.  the GOP hasn't learned anything from their losses.
 
2013-03-15 09:45:01 AM  

Weaver95: I think this is great stuff.  the GOP hasn't learned anything from their losses.


Oops.
 
2013-03-15 09:55:36 AM  
Here's a shovel.  And a map.  Go find Hitler's grave, assholes.

/God(FT)Win in 4.
 
2013-03-15 10:01:05 AM  
These are the same people who cheer executions - of innocent people.
 
2013-03-15 10:02:46 AM  
Funny, I've heard the same thing about GW Bush and Nixon.  How many other people run by the Republican party for national elections are not really Republicans?
 
2013-03-15 10:02:55 AM  
What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?
 
2013-03-15 10:04:29 AM  
Fine. They weren't conservatives. And Rick Perry was not smart enough to beat them.

msnbcmedia.msn.com
 
2013-03-15 10:04:59 AM  
He is right and neither is Perry.
 
2013-03-15 10:05:01 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-15 10:07:02 AM  
Nice headline, subs.
 
2013-03-15 10:07:05 AM  
I'm so freaking tired of people misunderstanding this logical fallacy.

Look, the Scotsman fallacy only works when you have an agreed upon definition of the group. While it might get hazy around the edges (is someone whose been living in Edinburgh for 1 year a Scotsman? 4? 40?), we can pretty much agree someone who was born in Scotland and lived there all their life is a Scotsman.

There are lots of varying interpretations of conservative. While George W. Bush was a social conservative, in no sense was he a fiscal conservative. The huge explosion of new spending under his 8 years was simply not reflective of a fiscal conservative. So if you want to say that he's not a conservative, he's a moderate totalitarian/populist (someone who believes the government should control both the economy and morality), there's a really strong case to be made.
 
2013-03-15 10:07:42 AM  

Saiga410: He is right and neither is Perry.


Who is a True Conservative in your opinion?
 
2013-03-15 10:10:55 AM  
Rick Perry says Romney and McCain and I forget the third were not conservatives.
 
2013-03-15 10:11:25 AM  
i.qkme.me
 
2013-03-15 10:11:49 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?


You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.
 
2013-03-15 10:12:31 AM  

BooBoo23: Fine. They weren't conservatives. And Rick Perry was not smart enough to beat them.

[msnbcmedia.msn.com image 600x330]


It's almost like he's saying that true conservatives would do poorly on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?"
 
2013-03-15 10:12:49 AM  
Keep keep moving in the direction you're going, you retards.  The longer you dont 'get it', the more times saner people get elected and continue repairing the damage you guys did last time you were in control.
 
2013-03-15 10:12:54 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.


So I'll ask you too, who is a True Conservative in your opinion?
 
2013-03-15 10:14:43 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: I'm so freaking tired of people misunderstanding this logical fallacy.

Look, the Scotsman fallacy only works when you have an agreed upon definition of the group. While it might get hazy around the edges (is someone whose been living in Edinburgh for 1 year a Scotsman? 4? 40?), we can pretty much agree someone who was born in Scotland and lived there all their life is a Scotsman.

There are lots of varying interpretations of conservative. While George W. Bush was a social conservative, in no sense was he a fiscal conservative. The huge explosion of new spending under his 8 years was simply not reflective of a fiscal conservative. So if you want to say that he's not a conservative, he's a moderate totalitarian/populist (someone who believes the government should control both the economy and morality), there's a really strong case to be made.


You are no true pedant.
 
2013-03-15 10:14:50 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: I'm so freaking tired of people misunderstanding this logical fallacy.

Look, the Scotsman fallacy only works when you have an agreed upon definition of the group. While it might get hazy around the edges (is someone whose been living in Edinburgh for 1 year a Scotsman? 4? 40?), we can pretty much agree someone who was born in Scotland and lived there all their life is a Scotsman.

There are lots of varying interpretations of conservative. While George W. Bush was a social conservative, in no sense was he a fiscal conservative. The huge explosion of new spending under his 8 years was simply not reflective of a fiscal conservative. So if you want to say that he's not a conservative, he's a moderate totalitarian/populist (someone who believes the government should control both the economy and morality), there's a really strong case to be made.


It still applies because the nation (both sides, the people, and the media) have decided that political stance is binary.  You are either a conservative or a dirty, stinking, filthy liby-lib-liberal.  This fact is perpetuated by the concept of RINOs, et. al.  If being a "conservative" is the only way to be Right (which is a state of mind not to be confused with right-focused policies, or truth, or facts) then someone who loses is obviously not-Right and can't be Right.

So, in the classic example:
"No Scotsman would A.  I am a Scotsman, I A all the time.  Well, no  true Scotsman would A"

Let's set Scotsman as conservative, "I" as McCain/Romney, and A as "lose an election."

No conservative would lose an election.  McCain/Romney are conservatives, they lose elections all the time.

Perry: Well, no True Conservative would lose an election.


Fits perfectly.
 
2013-03-15 10:15:01 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.


The lines are blurred, man.  Neither gives a f*ck about anything but helping themselves; the means differ to that end, however.  One touts Jesus as Math Republicans use to make themselves feel better about their lot in life, the other uses the industrial military complex to kill brown people and project power and enrich themselves.
 
2013-03-15 10:16:01 AM  

Smackledorfer: You are no true pedant.


You take that back!

/words hurt
 
2013-03-15 10:16:04 AM  
I want to hear about the uptic in listings for "str8 acting seeks discreet" on Craiglist M4M, Grindr, Scruf, etc at this annual gathering of consevatives.
 
2013-03-15 10:18:08 AM  
You know, in this topsy-turvy, ever-changing, dangerous world of ours, it's good to know that some things will never change. Like the GOP clinging to cognitive dissonance. Or Rick Perry being the stupidest motherf*cker in the room.
 
2013-03-15 10:19:10 AM  

coeyagi: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.

The lines are blurred, man.  Neither gives a f*ck about anything but helping themselves; the means differ to that end, however.  One touts Jesus as Math Republicans use to make themselves feel better about their lot in life, the other uses the industrial military complex to kill brown people and project power and enrich themselves.


Their fiscal policies are closer to Ayn Rand than Jesus
 
2013-03-15 10:21:47 AM  
I love how, the farther to the Right someone is, the more convinced they are that they are the overwhelming majority.
 
2013-03-15 10:22:50 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.

So I'll ask you too, who is a True Conservative in your opinion?


Calvin Coolidge was decently conservative, Ike wasn't too bad either.
 
2013-03-15 10:24:15 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.

So I'll ask you too, who is a True Conservative in your opinion?

Calvin Coolidge was decently conservative, Ike wasn't too bad either.


Can you suggest a TrueConservative who hasn't been dead for 50 years?
 
2013-03-15 10:24:45 AM  

nobodyUwannaknow: coeyagi: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.

The lines are blurred, man.  Neither gives a f*ck about anything but helping themselves; the means differ to that end, however.  One touts Jesus as Math Republicans use to make themselves feel better about their lot in life, the other uses the industrial military complex to kill brown people and project power and enrich themselves.

Their fiscal policies are closer to Ayn Rand than Jesus


You and I know that.  Why not just claim Ayn Rand was Jesus and get it over with?  50 years (hell, 50 months) and all the derpers will fall right in line.
 
2013-03-15 10:25:36 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.

So I'll ask you too, who is a True Conservative in your opinion?

Calvin Coolidge was decently conservative, Ike wasn't too bad either.

Can you suggest a TrueConservative who hasn't been dead for 50 years?


The rate they're going, I can suggest one that has been dead for 68 years.
 
2013-03-15 10:29:11 AM  
If only there had been some sort of nomination process where conservative voters could get together and decide which conservative to nominate to run for the presidency.  Something like that would have been ideal and we never would have seen Romney nominated.
 
2013-03-15 10:30:57 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.

So I'll ask you too, who is a True Conservative in your opinion?

Calvin Coolidge was decently conservative, Ike wasn't too bad either.

Can you suggest a TrueConservative who hasn't been dead for 50 years?


What does that have to do with the false claim that Romney and McCain are conservative?
 
2013-03-15 10:31:57 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.

So I'll ask you too, who is a True Conservative in your opinion?

Calvin Coolidge was decently conservative, Ike wasn't too bad either.

Can you suggest a TrueConservative who hasn't been dead for 50 years?

What does that have to do with the false claim that Romney and McCain are conservative?


Are you saying True Conservatism is extinct in the US?
 
2013-03-15 10:34:55 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Are you saying True Conservatism is extinct in the US?


On the national stage, yes.
 
2013-03-15 10:36:05 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: Are you saying True Conservatism is extinct in the US?

On the national stage, yes.


What defines TrueConservatiism in your opinion?
 
2013-03-15 10:40:24 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-03-15 10:43:32 AM  
Good luck with that.
 
2013-03-15 10:53:01 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: Are you saying True Conservatism is extinct in the US?

On the national stage, yes.

What defines TrueConservatiism in your opinion?


You should be able to take a look at the presidents I mentioned and get a general sense.  I'm not sure if your intention is such, but doing nothing but responding with yet another question upon each answer being provided is rather annoying.
 
2013-03-15 10:53:41 AM  

PanicMan: Funny, I've heard the same thing about GW Bush and Nixon.  How many other people run by the Republican party for national elections are not really Republicans?


If you look at his position on:
taxes (raised 11 times)
gun control (lobbied for the Brady Bill)
and immigration (proposed and won amnesty for illegals)
the biggest RINO of them all was Reagan, so... I guess even Republican's don't know what a "Real Conservative" looks like.
 
2013-03-15 10:55:34 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: Are you saying True Conservatism is extinct in the US?

On the national stage, yes.

What defines TrueConservatiism in your opinion?

You should be able to take a look at the presidents I mentioned and get a general sense.  I'm not sure if your intention is such, but doing nothing but responding with yet another question upon each answer being provided is rather annoying.


The two Presidents you mentioned had very different policies and views. I was curious as to what you see as the connection.

I'm sorry if askingabout your views annoys you.
 
2013-03-15 10:56:36 AM  
"I know three people who aren't conservative: Mitt Romney, John McCain, and uhh... um... I forgot the third."
"Rick Perry?"
"Rick Perry! Wait, no..."
 
2013-03-15 11:05:42 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: There are lots of varying interpretations of conservative. While George W. Bush was a social conservative, in no sense was he a fiscal conservative. The huge explosion of new spending under his 8 years was simply not reflective of a fiscal conservative. So if you want to say that he's not a conservative, he's a moderate totalitarian/populist (someone who believes the government should control both the economy and morality), there's a really strong case to be made.


Bush cut taxes to historically low levels and his spending increases were almost for national defense which most every "fiscal conservative" agrees is the proper place for government spending. He absolutely fits the definition of a fiscal conservative. It's just that fiscal conservatism is bad at reducing our debt.
 
2013-03-15 11:12:48 AM  
He meant to name three but forgot the last one.
 
2013-03-15 11:27:03 AM  

odinsposse: Bush cut taxes to historically low levels and his spending increases were almost for national defense which most every "fiscal conservative" agrees is the proper place for government spending.


The idea that spending under Bush was almost all tied to national defense. Leaving aside the question of whether activities like the Iraq War were "national defense," the entitlement program Medicare Part D contributed part of it, but non-defense spending in the discretionary budget consistently grew under Bush by more than it did under, say, Clinton. It's really not hard to look up.
 
2013-03-15 11:49:08 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Philip Francis Queeg: What more would Romney have had to do to prove his conservative credentials? Execute a homeless person during his acceptance speech at the RNC?

You, like subby are confusing neocon and conservative.

So I'll ask you too, who is a True Conservative in your opinion?

Calvin Coolidge was decently conservative, Ike wasn't too bad either.

Can you suggest a TrueConservative who hasn't been dead for 50 years?

What does that have to do with the false claim that Romney and McCain are conservative?


What makes it false? Your sole opinion?
 
2013-03-15 11:57:09 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: The two Presidents you mentioned had very different policies and views. I was curious as to what you see as the connection.

I'm sorry if askingabout your views annoys you.


Being asked to  define his views is what annoys him.  Because if he's forced to define them, he can't later move the goalposts without making it obvious that he's done so.
 
2013-03-15 01:09:30 PM  
Just keep moving right; I'm sure that will attract more independent voters next time.
 
2013-03-15 01:16:41 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: odinsposse: Bush cut taxes to historically low levels and his spending increases were almost for national defense which most every "fiscal conservative" agrees is the proper place for government spending.

The idea that spending under Bush was almost all tied to national defense. Leaving aside the question of whether activities like the Iraq War were "national defense," the entitlement program Medicare Part D contributed part of it, but non-defense spending in the discretionary budget consistently grew under Bush by more than it did under, say, Clinton. It's really not hard to look up.


But a large portion of that "non-defense" spending was homeland defense spending. Those two items didn't make up all of the spending increases but they certainly made up most of them.
 
2013-03-15 01:33:50 PM  
Oh, to be a Democratic consultant these days. With Republicans acting like Otto from Fish Called Wanda, there's no way a Democrat can lose in 2016.
 
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