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(NPR)   If he had simply told a bartender "thank you," Romney may not have had to face the whole '47 %' issue at all   (npr.org) divider line 408
    More: Interesting, Lord, David Corn  
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7432 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Mar 2013 at 7:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 09:55:57 PM

Weaver95: BarkingUnicorn:
I am still talking about the progressive tax system as I experience it.  You are still comparing one person to another.  Conversation is still not occurring.

its part of the same conversation...an ugly part that you don't want to talk about.

carry on then.  I can't force you into enlightenment.


I am as keenly aware of the unfairness of our economic system as you are.  I just refuse to let you hijack the conversation that I started, which is about the progressive tax system effect on an individual.

I wouldn't change the progressive tax system.  But don't pretend it doesn't penalize the earning of more money.  It has its downside as well as its upside, and to insist otherwise makes you look foolish or dishonest.
 
2013-03-14 09:57:38 PM
BarkingUnicorn:

I wouldn't change the progressive tax system.  But don't pretend it doesn't penalize the earning of more money.  It has its downside as well as its upside, and to insist otherwise makes you look foolish or dishonest.

it only punishes you if you aren't in the 1%.  if you're in the super rich elite...hey, the current tax system is GREAT!
 
2013-03-14 10:03:07 PM
I've been faced with a connundrum in the past.  As I was raised in the south with a stereotypical southern grandmother, I say "thank you" any time anyone does something nice for me.  Like when I'm at an event and someone with a tray happens by with drinks on it and allows me to take one or if someone just hands me a drink.  I've been reprimanded by peers and employers for doing so.  Apparently the people who work these sorts of thing are hired help who, professionally, wish to be invisible.  Saying "Thank you" embarrasses them or breaks the professional wall or breach of contract with the catering company, what have you.

I still think it's right to say thank you, but I wouldn't want to do so if the paid ninjas would be offended by me doing so.
 
2013-03-14 10:07:32 PM

gadian: I've been faced with a connundrum in the past.  As I was raised in the south with a stereotypical southern grandmother, I say "thank you" any time anyone does something nice for me.  Like when I'm at an event and someone with a tray happens by with drinks on it and allows me to take one or if someone just hands me a drink.  I've been reprimanded by peers and employers for doing so.  Apparently the people who work these sorts of thing are hired help who, professionally, wish to be invisible.  Saying "Thank you" embarrasses them or breaks the professional wall or breach of contract with the catering company, what have you.

I still think it's right to say thank you, but I wouldn't want to do so if the paid ninjas would be offended by me doing so.


Huh.  I do the same thing; I've never heard this rule.  At the last Christmas party, I struck up conversations with the girl holding the bacon-wrapped scallops so she wouldn't walk away.
 
2013-03-14 10:07:40 PM

Silly Jesus: Well, he wasn't wrong.  A large percentage of the population is worthless...and that number is only growing.

A new Georgia State University study just confirmed what liberals love to deny...the welfare state is a democratic slave plantation.  Keep the checks a comin' and the votes a rollin in!


Of course since the Republicans control both house of the Gerogia Legislature and the Governor's mansion, what you really mean is it is a Republican slave plantation.
 
2013-03-14 10:10:26 PM
Well, to be fair, Romney didn't know that service industry workers were allowed to vote
 
2013-03-14 10:13:28 PM
Subby, are you suggesting that Mitt Romney, candidate for the presidency of the United States, treat a mere hourly wage-earner as a real human being? Don't you know who he is?
 
2013-03-14 10:14:56 PM
I absolutely believe that you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat people who are waitstaff, retail clerks, food service workers, janitors.....any job like that.  Treat them like shiat, and I don't care how nice you are to me, your mother, or a gaggle of ducklings.....you're a dickhead.
 
2013-03-14 10:16:10 PM
I hope this guy does a good job cashing in on his 15 minutes.  Romney strikes me as the type of guy with a good memory for shiat like this.
 
2013-03-14 10:25:31 PM

NotARocketScientist: Well, he wasn't wrong.  A large percentage of the population is worthless...and that number is only growing.

A new Georgia State University study just confirmed what liberals love to deny...the welfare state is a democratic slave plantation.  Keep the checks a comin' and the votes a rollin in!

47% of US adults get a government hand out, but the unemployment rate is only 10-20%, so that means 27-37% of the country IS WORKING FULL TIME AND IS STILL BELOW THE POVERTY LINE. Doesn't that bother you at all?


It bothers me that working full-time isn't enough to exist in this country, so requiring it. Maybe you could suggest some alternatives, such as raising minimum wage or something?
 
2013-03-14 10:28:22 PM
Yes, let's hate on Romney a little more for being wealthier, better and more successful that most of us can ever dream of being.  Did you thank your safe for doing its job of keeping all your valuables safe from the house keepers while you were away golfing this morning?  Did you thank the brakes on your Ferrari for working like they're supposed to when your lousy chauffeur drove you to dinner this evening?  Exactly.  Why would you ever thank a lowly bartender for doing what he's supposed to do?
 
2013-03-14 10:39:39 PM
CSB time!

Back in 2001 I was doing some work for the contract food service company at Middle Tennessee State University, where, if you'll recall, Al Gore taught a class in government following the 2000 election. At the end of the semester, they held a banquet in his honor, and I got picked to work the floor.

Al didn't show up until a few minutes before it was time for him to go on, after everyone had eaten. When security came in the kitchen to check things out, they just kind of hung back, then Al walked in and stood beside the door while the guy giving his intro speech was rambling on. I remember him facing the wall, leaning against it with his arm above his head and his face buried in his elbow, as if he was just flat out tired.

So anyway, the seven or eight of us in the kitchen that liked Al kind of hung around near him in a semicircle. He turned around and saw us, and then he sighed, straightened his shoulders, and smiled. He walked to each of us and gave us a firm handshake, and said "It's very good to see you!"

I think it was about the best thing he could have said, since we weren't technically "meeting", but it said so much about him that he took those few seconds to show a bit of appreciation for the staff. I'm not about to say that Dubya wouldn't have done the same, but I cannot for the life of me imagine Romney ever doing something like that in the back room away from any cameras. Al didn't have to do that, he wasn't running for office or anything, he just seemed like as tired as he was, he would give us a few seconds of his time just because.

By the way, in person, that man is huge. I am not a small man, but he dwarfed me. You could see his bicep bulging against his suit when he reached out to shake hands.

How we wound up with the cheerleader instead of the football player I'll never quite understand.
 
2013-03-14 10:43:17 PM
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/mormon.asp

Snopes says the rumor that the Mormons own the Coca Cola company is FALSE.

And Berkshire Hathaway still owns the most shares. The biggest private owner is Barry Diller, I haven't seen any mention of him being a Mormon.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=KO+Major+Holders
 
2013-03-14 10:44:06 PM
Ok I think Romney would have lost without this tape, but this tape sure solidified it.

It's one thing when the other side says you are an uncaring douche, it's completely another level when you prove it yourself.
 
2013-03-14 10:45:31 PM

Coco LaFemme: I absolutely believe that you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat people who are waitstaff, retail clerks, food service workers, janitors.....any job like that.  Treat them like shiat, and I don't care how nice you are to me, your mother, or a gaggle of ducklings.....you're a dickhead.


Absolutely. Never underestimate someone else's power or influence, and never forget that other people see how you treat those who don't share your circumstances.

The true measure of a man is how he treats those who can do him absolutely no good.
 
2013-03-14 10:49:37 PM

Egalitarian: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/mormon.asp

Snopes says the rumor that the Mormons own the Coca Cola company is FALSE.

And Berkshire Hathaway still owns the most shares. The biggest private owner is Barry Diller, I haven't seen any mention of him being a Mormon.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=KO+Major+Holders


No one's claiming the Mormons own Coca-Cola, or even a majority share.  But it's known they do own some stock in the company.
 
2013-03-14 10:51:06 PM

Miss Stein: Egalitarian: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/mormon.asp

Snopes says the rumor that the Mormons own the Coca Cola company is FALSE.

And Berkshire Hathaway still owns the most shares. The biggest private owner is Barry Diller, I haven't seen any mention of him being a Mormon.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=KO+Major+Holders

No one's claiming the Mormons own Coca-Cola, or even a majority share.  But it's known they do own some stock in the company.


I heard there's a few Pepsi drinkers that own Coca-Cola stock as well.  Anything on Snopes about that?  I couldn't find details online, but I'm sure it's true.
 
2013-03-14 10:52:43 PM

The Dog Ate My Homework: Some people might think this is petty, but having waited tables and tended bar, I think this guy is spot on. It's absolutely amazing how differently people act when you're serving them. Lots of people are just as nice as they are otherwise, but at least as many completely change when they're in that position. And yes, it truly does say a lot about what a person is really like.

And even my kids know they're supposed to say "thank you."


I actually base my vote in local elections based on two factors, the issues and what service employees report about the candidates. I have friends and relatives all over the country who work in service, and it's interesting to see how well the 'how they treat service people reflects their character' theory holds up. John McCain and Barack Obama are both really nice to service staff, I've been told, but some other major political figures...yeah. Not so much. I could tell such stories of princess tantrums, entitled attitude-copping and tip-stiffing.

It feels so 'Downton Abbey' to realize that there are all of these over-educated, underemployed people waiting tables, serving drinks and sharing notes via the Internet. Sooner or later, you'll have to be a decent human being, at least in public, to be active in politics.

And I'm completely okay with that.
 
2013-03-14 10:53:29 PM

Silly Jesus: ;Do you have an argument as to why paying people to have more babies and not get married doesn't facilitate a welfare state?


Look, Jack. You can claim to be a "left-leaning libertarian" all you want, but when you quack like a duck, you're a goddamned duck. Republican governance 101: if you break the systems designed to keep a civil society functioning properly, you can point to the broken programs as proof that government doesn't work. You're playing human centipede with Republican talking points. The safety net systems have long been broken in the name of "cost savings" and "personal responsibility". They provide a crap lifestyle for making 8 babies and not getting married, as you so fairly and delicately put it. At the same time, we've allowed incomes to stagnate to the point that their already crap way of life would only become worse if they took a job at Walmart. Meanwhile, most of their benefits are structured perversely, because of Republican policy. If you don't like the way poor people live, then raise the minimum wage and fix the perverse incentives. Please, I'm begging you. The best way to force these lazy poors to work for a living is to make it financially attractive to work for a living.
 
2013-03-14 10:54:32 PM

pciszek: Real Women Drink Akvavit: /thought Mormons couldn't have caffeinated beverages like Coke

I think that changed when the Mormon church became a major shareholder in the Coca-Cola corporation.


http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/mormon.asp
 
2013-03-14 10:55:38 PM

Corvus: Ok I think Romney would have lost without this tape, but this tape sure solidified it.

It's one thing when the other side says you are an uncaring douche, it's completely another level when you prove it yourself.


Although it didn't sink as deep into the public consciousness, let us not forget the staged visit to the soup kitchen around the same time.  This campaign was nothing but one PR disaster to the next.
 
2013-03-14 10:57:10 PM

SpiderQueenDemon: The Dog Ate My Homework: Some people might think this is petty, but having waited tables and tended bar, I think this guy is spot on. It's absolutely amazing how differently people act when you're serving them. Lots of people are just as nice as they are otherwise, but at least as many completely change when they're in that position. And yes, it truly does say a lot about what a person is really like.

And even my kids know they're supposed to say "thank you."

I actually base my vote in local elections based on two factors, the issues and what service employees report about the candidates. I have friends and relatives all over the country who work in service, and it's interesting to see how well the 'how they treat service people reflects their character' theory holds up. John McCain and Barack Obama are both really nice to service staff, I've been told, but some other major political figures...yeah. Not so much. I could tell such stories of princess tantrums, entitled attitude-copping and tip-stiffing.

It feels so 'Downton Abbey' to realize that there are all of these over-educated, underemployed people waiting tables, serving drinks and sharing notes via the Internet. Sooner or later, you'll have to be a decent human being, at least in public, to be active in politics.

And I'm completely okay with that.


I feel like if I also type a wall of text to juxtapose against your wall of text and the wall of text of the person that wrote the wall of text that you replied to with a wall of text, then we can wall of text this discussion with a wall of text of a wall of text of a wall of text.

I mean, there's not reason not to be not verbose when writing verbose walls of text on Fark and replying to verbose walls of text on Fark with our own verbose walls of text to the verbose walls of text of other people who are only capable of replying to verbose walls of text with verbose walls of text.

It reminds me of this time I was in Texas visiting my grandparents.  They lived out on a farm in the middle of the country, but their property was filled with these fantastic smooth surfaced limestone rocks that some people know as Texas holey rock.  Of course, when you say it out loud it sounds like Holy.  As in rocks of Jesus or some shiat like that.  So when I tried to sell it on the Internet, I had all kinds of Christian douches buying it thinking that it had special properties like Holey water.  Man, were they wrong.
 
2013-03-14 10:57:46 PM

img.photobucket.comMentat: I think that interview pretty much confirmed everything we thought about Romney.  I can see Clinton taking time to greet the staff while Romney and his buddies ignore them.  Even if Clinton is disingenuous, at least he has enough empathy to realize that pressing the common flesh is good politics.


/In the Louisville locker room Thursday.
 
2013-03-14 11:00:14 PM
I like your style, right wingers. Keep saying things. Loudly. Publicly.
Please.
 
2013-03-14 11:00:37 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I wouldn't change the progressive tax system. But don't pretend it doesn't penalize the earning of more money.


Seriously? Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society. If you don't agree with how we split the brackets, let's argue about that. If you think they're too high because we spend too much, let's argue about that, too. If you think they shouldn't be progressive, I think you're an idiot, but I'll have that argument too. But if you seriously consider income tax to be a "penalty on working harder", then you're dancing into Tea Party fractal wrongness territory.
 
2013-03-14 11:02:41 PM

TopoGigo: BarkingUnicorn: I wouldn't change the progressive tax system. But don't pretend it doesn't penalize the earning of more money.

Seriously? Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society. If you don't agree with how we split the brackets, let's argue about that. If you think they're too high because we spend too much, let's argue about that, too. If you think they shouldn't be progressive, I think you're an idiot, but I'll have that argument too. But if you seriously consider income tax to be a "penalty on working harder", then you're dancing into Tea Party fractal wrongness territory.


Amen.  But this is Fark, so try to give the idiots a break, it can't be easy living with extra chromosomes.
 
2013-03-14 11:06:13 PM

TopoGigo: Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society.


Was there not a civil society before 1913?
 
2013-03-14 11:10:00 PM

jigger: TopoGigo: Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society.

Was there not a civil society before 1913?


Nope.  It's a known fact.  Same as the fact that there were no women before 1920 and no African-Americans before 1968.
 
2013-03-14 11:12:16 PM

SpiderQueenDemon: I have friends and relatives all over the country who work in service, and it's interesting to see how well the 'how they treat service people reflects their character' theory holds up.


Back in the day we had Bitter Waitress and the Sh*tty Tipper Database, which chronicled celebrities and pseudo-celebrities and how they tipped and treated the service staff. The site went offline a few years ago (presumably when the Bitter Waitress left the industry) and now I can't find any really good index like that anymore.

I left a few notes in that one myself.
 
2013-03-14 11:12:24 PM

Cletus C.: You sir, will never work at my fundraiser, thank you very much.

Discretion is the first tenet of good help.


I doubt the guy wants to work at any hillbilly jam bo ree that you are putting together.
 
2013-03-14 11:17:50 PM

jigger: TopoGigo: Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society.

Was there not a civil society before 1913?


Psst. There was an income tax before 1913.
 
2013-03-14 11:19:21 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: As much as his dad seemed to be a decent guy, one must wonder if he was an elitist asshole as a father, teaching Mitt to never address the help directly.


Mitt's a pretty good example of second-generation rich. First generation worked hard for the money. They don't want their kids to go through the same kind of struggle. Then there's the inferiority complex a kid can have by being raised by someone who accomplished a lot on his own, plus the snubs from really old money, and the end result is an ass.
 
2013-03-14 11:20:34 PM

Snarfangel: No, distilled water with a single mint leaf is about as edgy as they get. And none of those exotic mints, either.


Exotic? Like Andes? Canada? Thin?
 
2013-03-14 11:21:11 PM

Tarl3k: robsul82: IIRC, in some puff interview they asked Romney what his biggest vice was, and he said Diet Coke.

has Rmoney ever done any OTHER kind of interview?


The debates. We all know how that went.
 
2013-03-14 11:21:52 PM

cchris_39: But he didn't go there with a grudge against Romney.  He said so.

/Romney, thoughtless, maybe distracted, who knows but it was rude either way.
//Prouty = pouty


From everything I've heard he brought the camera in hopes he might be able to get a picture with Mitt.   Link

"The man, who tended bar for a company that catered to a high-end clientele, had previously worked at a fundraiser at a home where Clinton spoke. After Clinton addressed guests, the man recalled, the former president came back to the kitchen and thanked the staff, the waiters, the bartenders, the busboys, and everyone else involved in putting the event together. He shook hands, took photos, signed autographs, and praised the meal -- all characteristic of the former president."

If I ever meet Prouty I'll buy him a beer.
 
2013-03-14 11:22:10 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Psst. There was an income tax before 1913.


He thinks that Hitler was a liberal. History is not his strong suit.

/This could apply equally to every single Republican in America.
//Oh well.
 
2013-03-14 11:23:35 PM

what_now: I waitressed my way through college. I've also worked retail, customer service, and sales. I've been a cashier, a house painter, a temp and a telemarketer.

People who are rude or dismissive of the help can fark off. This is my first test of a person's character.  I have no idea how a politician can act like that. It's astonishing to me.


Romney always had issues dealing with people. One of my favorite Romney gaffes happened early in the campaign during a picnic with Romney volunteers in Pittsburgh, when PA was still considered quite competitive. The volunteers had brought cookies from one of the notable local bakeries (Bethel Bakery) to the picnic. The smart move would have been just to say the cookies were delicious or not say anything about them. Romney called them "7-11 cookies" implying they were cheap cookies from a convenience store. It just made Romney look prissy and out-of-touch.
 
2013-03-14 11:25:55 PM

BarkingUnicorn: That reward comes from my labor; the penalty comes from the progressive tax system.


It takes money to make money.
The more money you have, the easier it gets.
The 'progressive tax system' helps compensate for this.

The rich can always choose to pay less, by taking less.
 
2013-03-14 11:26:31 PM

jigger: TopoGigo: Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society.

Was there not a civil society before 1913?


Fun fact: we used to pay this bill in other ways. Notably, with duties on imports. Now, I don't have enough econ chops to say whether duties are a smarter way to pay for the costs of society or not, but we as a nation decided that they weren't. We also decided that we needed to spend more money on having a society. That may or may not be the right way to do things. I personally believe that we're pretty stupid about how we spend our money, and I'd like a top-down reboot of what our government does for us. That doesn't mean that I think I shouldn't pay the bill.
 
2013-03-14 11:26:44 PM

Kuta: I always figured that $1/drink (even for a free glass of water) was a fair enough tip unless you're really drinking top shelf liquor. And that's of course not if you're running up a tab then standard rates apply.


Really? You have to tip for each drink? Why don't you just increase the price of the drink by $1 and pay the bartender properly? I really don't get it...

All this bother, stress, biatchiness, pettiness and hate for non-tippers just because you allow restaurant and bar management to outsource their HR to you...

/I've worked kitchen and bar, never got tips, never did a poorer job because of it as I was paid properly to do a  proper job and never felt the petty need to give someone lesser service because they didn't pay me extra.
 
2013-03-14 11:27:32 PM

TopoGigo: BarkingUnicorn: I wouldn't change the progressive tax system. But don't pretend it doesn't penalize the earning of more money.

Seriously? Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society. If you don't agree with how we split the brackets, let's argue about that. If you think they're too high because we spend too much, let's argue about that, too. If you think they shouldn't be progressive, I think you're an idiot, but I'll have that argument too. But if you seriously consider income tax to be a "penalty on working harder", then you're dancing into Tea Party fractal wrongness territory.


Did you miss my very first sentence even though you quoted it above?  If you earn more money, your marginal tax rate goes up.  You keep less of the additional money that you earn.  That's a penalty.  Take the bad with the good but don't pretend that bad is good; it makes you look foolish or dishonest.
 
2013-03-14 11:29:15 PM

Altitude5280: [img.photobucket.com image 605x607]Mentat: I think that interview pretty much confirmed everything we thought about Romney.  I can see Clinton taking time to greet the staff while Romney and his buddies ignore them.  Even if Clinton is disingenuous, at least he has enough empathy to realize that pressing the common flesh is good politics.

/In the Louisville locker room Thursday.


He and Bush Jr. both know how to work a crowd.
 
2013-03-14 11:31:06 PM

cameroncrazy1984: jigger: TopoGigo: Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society.

Was there not a civil society before 1913?

Psst. There was an income tax before 1913.


Not really. There was kind of one during the civil war, but it was really low and not easily collected. They tried again for a couple of years in the 1890s but then it was ruled unconstitutional. But really the rates were something like 3%. It was really low starting out in 1913 too, like 1% on most people. It didn't take long to ramp up to pay for WWI. So world war was the civil society you got out of the income tax.
 
2013-03-14 11:32:26 PM

TopoGigo: jigger: TopoGigo: Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society.

Was there not a civil society before 1913?

Fun fact: we used to pay this bill in other ways. Notably, with duties on imports. Now, I don't have enough econ chops to say whether duties are a smarter way to pay for the costs of society or not, but we as a nation decided that they weren't. We also decided that we needed to spend more money on having a society. That may or may not be the right way to do things. I personally believe that we're pretty stupid about how we spend our money, and I'd like a top-down reboot of what our government does for us. That doesn't mean that I think I shouldn't pay the bill.


No, they needed money to pay for war.
 
2013-03-14 11:32:32 PM
Revisionist history.  How does it work? News at 11.
 
2013-03-14 11:32:36 PM

TopoGigo: I personally believe that we're pretty stupid about how we spend our money, and I'd like a top-down reboot of what our government does for us.


That's definitely something to discuss. The Constitution has been in effect longer than any other existing government on the planet. Many newly forming (or re-forming) nations are no longer using the US Constitution as a basis for their own Constitution, as they feel there are better ways of doing things. The most commonly used framework nowadays is actually the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

It's obvious that what's happening now cannot sustain itself. We've had disagreement before, but right now the minority party refuses to allow the country to be run unless they get their way. Perhaps we do need consider a top-down change in our government.
 
2013-03-14 11:36:10 PM

ox45tallboy: SpiderQueenDemon: I have friends and relatives all over the country who work in service, and it's interesting to see how well the 'how they treat service people reflects their character' theory holds up.

Back in the day we had Bitter Waitress and the Sh*tty Tipper Database, which chronicled celebrities and pseudo-celebrities and how they tipped and treated the service staff. The site went offline a few years ago (presumably when the Bitter Waitress left the industry) and now I can't find any really good index like that anymore.

I left a few notes in that one myself.


I left a story or two on BW myself. I waited tables through college. Then, when divorcing a man that almost bankcrupted me, I worked 20+ hrs a week (plus my 40 hr/wk gig at the corporate HQ of a bank and military reserves) at a very pricey, upscale place. Most of the guests were classy and generous. Others clearly thought I was just some moron incapable of having a "real" job and were snobbish and dismissive, not to mention stingy. I always tip well, and say please and thank you. I was always grateful of guests who treated me civilly and I too base a good part of my character assessment on how one treats "the help".
 
2013-03-14 11:36:25 PM

jigger: cameroncrazy1984: jigger: TopoGigo: Income tax is not a penalty. It's a f*cking bill. It's the bill for living in a civil society.

Was there not a civil society before 1913?

Psst. There was an income tax before 1913.

Not really. There was kind of one during the civil war, but it was really low and not easily collected. They tried again for a couple of years in the 1890s but then it was ruled unconstitutional. But really the rates were something like 3%. It was really low starting out in 1913 too, like 1% on most people. It didn't take long to ramp up to pay for WWI. So world war was the civil society you got out of the income tax.


Comparing the US pre-WWII (say, 1939) and post-WWII (1955 or so, after the first batch of GI Bill recipients had graduated from college and been at their jobs for a few years), I think most people would agree that was money well spent.
 
2013-03-14 11:38:15 PM

greentea1985: Romney always had issues dealing with people.


I liked when he made fun of the NASCAR guys wearing ponchos out in the rain. "I like those fancy raincoats you bought. Really sprung for the big bucks." Romney was practically a Disney villain.

The only humor the guy understands is being a dick, and due to his power and influence he seldom suffered any sort of backlash for it. Rich Republicans have been so coddled by demanding everyone be "fair and balanced" to their douchey tendencies, they don't know how to even pretend to be human beings anymore.
 
2013-03-14 11:38:49 PM

freetomato: I left a story or two on BW myself. I waited tables through college. Then, when divorcing a man that almost bankcrupted me, I worked 20+ hrs a week (plus my 40 hr/wk gig at the corporate HQ of a bank and military reserves) at a very pricey, upscale place. Most of the guests were classy and generous. Others clearly thought I was just some moron incapable of having a "real" job and were snobbish and dismissive, not to mention stingy. I always tip well, and say please and thank you. I was always grateful of guests who treated me civilly and I too base a good part of my character assessment on how one treats "the help".


I'd rather get 15% from a kind and courteous person than 20% from an asshole. (Okay, if the rent was due, I might be willing to take some abuse for a few extra bucks, but you know what I mean.)
 
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