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(Huffington Post)   Census shows that places that should never have been populated eventually realized it   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 33
    More: Obvious, population ageing, new immigrants, Rick Snyder, Population Reference Bureau, Fort Benning, subprime mortgage crisis, meat packing plant, U.S. counties  
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17170 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2013 at 3:27 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-03-14 06:16:25 PM  
3 votes:
I find it funny that everyone realizes young people are leaving old people behind, but nobody's asking why or to where nor why they're not sticking around (or are unable to)-- instead it's automatically "we need more immigrants" not "what are we doing wrong?" Hint: listen to young people and for once try to ignore the selfish/pissy demands of the old.
2013-03-14 06:39:09 PM  
2 votes:

cman: tricycleracer: Kangaroo_Ralph: Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.

I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.

Just wait until the "told ya so" folk get to spout their self-felatio when Manhattan is covered by the ocean.

/And seriously, San Francisco, you guys built your damn city on soft sand.


I would have shouted the second poster out of a bar as well. The port system from new orleans to baton rouge is the highest volume port system in the world.  new orleans has the highest volume port in that system.  say what you will, but new orleans' importance to commerce is a lot more important than the off chance that the city will need rebuilding once every 200 years and is more cost effective than moving 50 miles up river.  not to mention, the reason the city suffered so much is because the rest of the nation was enjoying all the benefits of cost effective shipping all the while refusing to pay the costs of maintaining the levee protection system (and disallowing louisiana from charging any kind of premium for the privilege)

it is not uncommon that the most important cities are near water.  it is not uncommon that water is dangerous.  the counties that are drying up are in the middle of no where.
2013-03-14 04:12:37 PM  
2 votes:

HeadLever: dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.

Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.  Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

[mw2.google.com image 500x335]


Some of us raised in the rural areas couldn't wait to get the fark out.

www.wargearstudio.com
This is how most people see rural Indiana.  At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.
2013-03-14 03:57:01 PM  
2 votes:

dv-ous: It amazes me that so many people are so much more attached to their geographic place than they are to the lifestyle they wanted, the plans they had, their dreams, culture, and the families that abandoned them to live in more civilized parts.


Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.  Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

Not everything in life is about status and money when you get to see this out your backdoor regularly.

mw2.google.com
2013-03-14 02:18:29 PM  
2 votes:
Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.
2013-03-15 01:55:19 AM  
1 votes:

piglet: Not amusing: The U.S. and world economies founded on the concept that there must be continual and unlimited growth despite finite land and resources. Greed really does put the blinders on people.


True, but not the way most people interpret that. Modern finance requires ever-expanding economic growth, which can happen a number of ways, including but by no means limited to...

1. Population growth (labor supply increases, resulting in more work that can be performed).
2. Increased resources (new supplies of affordable raw materials are found, which are converted into marginally useful goods).
3. Gains in efficiency and productivity (we learn to do more with less).

The Industrial Revolution was pretty much "all of the above" - population growth skyrocketed due to improvements in medicine and sanitation. At the same time, improvements in science and technology (along with a bit of the ol' ultraviolence in Africa) led to more resources being discovered and ultimately consumed. On top of that, gains in productivity made it possible for people to spend less time on the farm or traveling by foot and more time in cities building lots of stuff.

Nowadays, option 1 really isn't on the table anymore - the global population is starting to flatten out now that birth rates in poorer countries is starting to flatten out due to a combination of there being fewer poorer areas, increased distribution of contraceptives, and AIDS (more of that ol' ultraviolence in Africa). Mexican birth rates, for example, aren't going to be high enough to paper over below-replacement birth rates in the US and Canada for too much longer. Option 2, meanwhile, is also disappearing - the last time a large area of the world with easily accessible natural resources opened up was when the Cold War ended and western companies could use modern technology in former communist countries (there's a reason gas was <$1/gallon during the '90s). At this point, the only places left are either near-impossible to reach due to physical constraints (the Arctic, deep ocean, Africa), political constraints (much of the North American wilderness, almost all of Europe, Africa), or require staggering inputs of resources and energy in order to exploit effectively (tar sands, fracking, Africa).

That leaves option 3. We grow by doing more with less.

The good news is option 3 is pretty realistic, if a little slow. Modern cars, for example, are more powerful,  more fuel efficient, and infinitely more reliable than anything sold in the '70s. Computers... well, we all know how computing is going. Even manufacturing has progressed substantially - the reason manufacturing is returning to America is because it's cheaper to build robots in North Carolina and ship the resulting product to its chief market in the next state over than it is to build certain products in China, ship them across the Pacific, transport them over the several and myriad mountain ranges between San Francisco and eastern United States, and then finally get them where they need to be in the US. In short, continual technological improvement will lead to improved standards of living, which will be interpreted as "growth".

Having said that, in order to achieve continual technological improvement, we have to be able to accumulate sufficient capital to build improved productive capacity and the improved productive capacity has to achieve a reasonable rate of return against the capital that was expended. Unfortunately, instead of investing in capital creation, our finance industry has instead decided they can enjoy greater rates of return (in the short term) by exchanging pieces of paper with one another and convincing everyone else to do the same. The sad part is they're absolutely right... in the short term.

/At least our financial instruments are more efficient.
//They're destroying more with less!
2013-03-14 06:37:26 PM  
1 votes:

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.


Not amusing: The U.S. and world economies founded on the concept that there must be continual and unlimited growth despite finite land and resources. Greed really does put the blinders on people.
2013-03-14 06:22:06 PM  
1 votes:

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.


Um, what?

Go check Google's traffic map right now.  Unless you have to do anything involving 696 (at which point you should just be using 12 mile), or some of the sympathetic traffic jams from 696, the board is green.  At 6:00 on a weekday.

Name me one other city in the country that can match that.  Where rush hour is not 'utter gridlock', but 'Maybe I should stay off a single freeway (and Telegraph, since Telegraph goes from 4 lanes to 3 immediately after 2 major freeways dump into it, which is stupid)'.

/And once summer starts, the traffic will get even better since large numbers of people will decamp for the UP.
//Of course, I've lived in Boston, Seattle, and SF, and my one experience with other midwestern cities was driving through and around Chicago, when I had 3 interviews (2 in Chicago, 1 in Madison) and I drove from Detroit.  How does Chicago even function?
2013-03-14 06:10:35 PM  
1 votes:

ajgeek: The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"


There are no jobs in Maine.
2013-03-14 06:04:55 PM  
1 votes:
It's always amusing when the population not growing quickly is considered a problem.

"Without new immigrants, many metropolitan areas such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis would have posted flat or negative population growth in the last year."

Oh no, NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and St. Louis are becoming ghost towns!

We are the third most populous country on earth. We're not "running out" of people. I understand that in areas that experience a significant population collapse, that can be a problem, but the cities they mentioned are not collapsing. They're just not growing at a breakneck pace. And I'm guessing the people who live there and sit in ridiculous traffic are OK with that.
2013-03-14 05:48:16 PM  
1 votes:
As fuel gets more expensive, the only people left in rural areas will be people who actually have a reason to be in rural areas, as apposed to people who commute long distances for "lifestyle" reasons.   People in rural areas will be employed in agriculture, logging, mining, energy production and the like.  Rural areas won't  die so much as they will change.  Modern agricultural, mining and logging methods means that few people will be needed to do those jobs.  As for the rest,  trends point to more urbanization because that style of living is inherently more efficient.  NYC has very low per capita energy use.   What will be history is the suburbs, especially the outlying xburbs, burbs far away from water, or in very hot climes.   For those of you who sunk big money into vinyl-clad, particle-board McMansions out in Bumfark, Nowhere......what is that the French say?  Oh, yeah, SUCKERS.
2013-03-14 05:44:57 PM  
1 votes:
Where I grew up (and fled a looong time ago) - SE Wisconsin - that sort of semi-rural area between Madison and Milwaukee with lots of small of small towns would be totally dead or barely populated by old folks, but for the Mexicans who came in the mid- late 90's.

Really only some manufacturing industries left - many have remained.  Still lots of loud, hot and noisy low paying jobs that white folks don't want to do.

Who says America (or rather upper midwest) America is dying?
2013-03-14 05:18:21 PM  
1 votes:
The very old population of Maine doesn't want ANYONE else coming in. Any money that is here is also old and Maine hemorrhages money to other states much faster than we bring it in. If it weren't for government subsidies, Maine would have been abandoned as derelict. This is one of the few places in the U.S. that's as homogenous (white) as Japan. Many of the folk up here are just as xenophobic and racist as everywhere else, but it doesn't have to be "addressed" because there's no one to be racist or xenophobic against.

So the state is dying and they're all like "well, why?! Why ever would people not want to have children here?!"
2013-03-14 04:59:54 PM  
1 votes:

Fissile: Census data shows that America's ruraleconomic decline is accelerating?  Well, the GOP has a cure for that......they're planning on eliminating the Census Bureau.


FTFY.

1) Agriculture becomes automated, reducing rural populations and driving people away.
2) Cars mean that you can drive 60 miles to the nearest large town, instead of taking the wagon into the small town 5 miles away.
3) These things, combined with reallocated budgets, means that the anchor for a lot of the small towns (Post Office/school), can go away or be combined.
4) Without a reason to exist, the small town dies out.

Repeat all the way across the country.

/And then Step 5: Because transportation infrastructure sucks and too many people are moving to the large city, everyone spends thousands of dollars each month on terrible shoebox apartments 4 miles and 30+ minutes from work.
2013-03-14 04:56:18 PM  
1 votes:

logieal: Rapmaster2000: d23: Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.

I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...

I went to Purdue and supplemented my school money working at Kirby Risk and Wabash National.  I've met my share of the locals.  I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?

I grew up and lived just East of Kokomo by about 30 minutes. Yes, there is nothing. I got the hell out of there the first opportunity I got.
It's sad that Kokomo was referred to as a big city. Interesting fact tho: for a time, Kokomo had the highest number of restaurants per capita of anywhere in the nation. Don't know nor care if that's still true.


Another town near there I thought was interesting was Logansport in that I drove through Logansport and I didn't see a single building that appeared to be newer than the 1970s.
2013-03-14 04:49:11 PM  
1 votes:
Census data shows that America's economic decline is accelerating?  Well, the GOP has a cure for that......they're planning on eliminating the Census Bureau.
2013-03-14 04:46:03 PM  
1 votes:
Due to the headline, I was expecting Las Vegas to be mentioned some where. I've never been there and don't have anything against it; I just think it's weird that it's in the middle of the desert.

Where I live, potable water is about a buck per 100 cubic feet, but the 5 to 6 month winters suck.
2013-03-14 04:36:32 PM  
1 votes:

RocketRay: Interesting they pick a picture of Bodie.


Agreed, didn't it die out about 100 years ago?  I visited in '93, but don't quite remember the saying - "They have to let me in heaven, because I've already been to Bode" or some such saying.
2013-03-14 04:28:20 PM  
1 votes:

ladyfortuna: That and some of us who were raised in the suburbs would rather see ^ that than more suburbs.


I agree.  Thing is that much of this area is all public land and won't be devloped.  Even with that, private land here is still pretty cheap compared to buying lots in the city.
3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-03-14 04:24:17 PM  
1 votes:
The U.S. population has been decreasing for a long time, it has been offset by immigration. Places which are not attracting immigrants will of course tend to wither.
2013-03-14 04:21:40 PM  
1 votes:

d23: Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.

I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...


I went to Purdue and supplemented my school money working at Kirby Risk and Wabash National.  I've met my share of the locals.  I don't have anything against the place, but there's just a dearth of opportunities and there's no real natural amenities to stay for.  Out of school I was offered something like 60k to move to Kokomo and work for Delphi.  I took less to go to Chicago because what long-term opportunities are there in Kokomo besides meth distribution?
2013-03-14 04:18:46 PM  
1 votes:

HeadLever: cgraves67: I don't think these regions should never have been populated. It's just that their haydays are past. There's fewer reasons for fewer people to stay there. Old opportunites are tapped out and new opportunities are cropping up and they aren't in these old places. There is no frontier anymore

You may see some of that reverse if food  and other commodity prices stay pretty high.  Starting to see a little more movement into these sectors as a change.  Don't know if it will last, but there are some pretty good boom areas in the more rual areas compared to a decade ago.  Rural Nevada and North Dakota are two good examples.


Not for food.  Agricultural towns are shrinking in population even while farm acreage rises in price.  With increased mechanization, we don't need as many farmers.  This will continue.
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 04:18:34 PM  
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: This is how most people see rural Indiana. At 85 mph on the way to somewhere else.


I live in Indiana, but luckily in Lafayette where there is some civilization.  I used to commute to the country to work, and this is most of what they see.  There is NOTHING.  It's not beautiful or laid back... it's just nothing.  If you have read a book this year you've read more than most of the residents in the last 15 years.  You get hick accents that you're barely able to decipher.  Everyone that can get out of those areas does...
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-03-14 04:14:34 PM  
1 votes:

mcreadyblue: Eventually, low housing prices might draw people back if telecommuting ever becomes mainstream.


As the new idiot CEO of Yahoo is blamed, telecommuting is only for the important people.

For everyone else in the 99.8% it's corporate feudalism.  Wait for the company dorms and the company stores... they're right around the bend again.
2013-03-14 04:13:27 PM  
1 votes:

HeadLever: Some of us raised in the rural areas have a huge connection to the geographical area and the land that we grew up on.


Bingo.

Many of us spend our time and effort looking for a job and scraping by so that we can continue to live in these places.

You lost me here.
2013-03-14 03:58:17 PM  
1 votes:

xanadian: In the last year, Maine joined West Virginia as the only two entire states where deaths exceed births

WOO!!  YEAH, MAINE!!!! WE'RE #...2!  WE'RE #2!


I drove through WV last week. A large part of that state looks like a wasteland right now. Dead, brown, unpopulated. And lots of the areas that are populated look like they are falling apart. That includes the capital.
2013-03-14 03:55:17 PM  
1 votes:

tricycleracer: I got shouted out of a bar by a drunk New Orleanian woman for suggesting that just maybe people should live below sea level next to a giant river and a huge lake.


If you go to a bar to criticize the life choices of drunk strangers, you're going to have a bad time.
2013-03-14 03:44:32 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?


About that...
2013-03-14 03:40:57 PM  
1 votes:
I don't think these regions should never have been populated. It's just that their haydays are past. There's fewer reasons for fewer people to stay there. Old opportunites are tapped out and new opportunities are cropping up and they aren't in these old places. There is no frontier anymore.
2013-03-14 03:40:03 PM  
1 votes:
Most of New Orleans shouldn't be populated.
2013-03-14 03:34:07 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: PC LOAD LETTER: Detroit's population decline has to do with lead and steel, and I don't mean in the factories.

You mean the auto industry that we exported to Japan?


I think the auto industry 'exported' themselves. I am glad that the domestic auto industry has largely shucked their ignoble past, though, and I expect they'll be more respected in the long run.
2013-03-14 02:25:50 PM  
1 votes:
I disagree with the Pittsburgh assessment: people aren't moving out, they're dying out.

/Seriously, though: we have a lot of old people.
2013-03-14 01:37:11 PM  
1 votes:
SimCity 2013?
 
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